Circular Soundbites
Circular Soundbites is the place to hear from the people shaping what’s coming next within the many industries and sectors Reconomy reaches. We’ll be talking to key industry experts and insiders, offering up real, practical insight on everything connected to the circular economy.
In addition to standalone episodes, Circular Soundbites will also offer dedicated, multi-part series that explore the systems, decisions and day-to-day realities driving real circular progress.
Circular Soundbites
Thread Talks: From Rag Trade to Circular Systems
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In this episode of Thread Talks, part of the Circular Soundbites podcast from Reconomy, host Aimee Campanella, Development Director for Textiles EPR, travels to Glasgow to meet Owen Ritchie, Managing Director of Clyde Recycling, as the family business marks its 40th anniversary.
Owen traces a remarkable history, from his great-grandmother collecting clothing door to door across Glasgow's East End to a modern operation processing 100 tonnes of textiles every week, the equivalent of seven or eight 40-foot containers. He walks through how it works in practice: collections from charity shops, textile banks, schools and retailers across Scotland, hundreds of constantly shifting grades on the sorting lines, and the export markets in West Africa, Eastern Europe and Pakistan where reusable clothing finds a second life.
The conversation does not shy away from the pressures facing the sector. Owen and Aimee discuss the impact of ultra-fast fashion on quality and margins, the steady decline of UK sorting infrastructure, the ethics of shipping waste abroad, and why the UK should take more responsibility for its own textile waste. They explore what would help the industry survive and thrive, from business rate relief to an import tax on ultra-fast fashion, and how textile Extended Producer Responsibility (EPR), already moving across Europe, could become a vital stabiliser if it arrives in the UK.
It is a candid, ground-level look at the realities of textile reuse and recycling, the value of long-standing global relationships, and the legislation and investment needed to make the system truly circular.
Circular Soundbites is available on all major streaming platforms and on our YouTube channel. To learn more about Reconomy and the circular economy, visit reconomy.com.
Hi everyone, and welcome to Circular Soundbites, the podcast where we break down the ideas, systems, and decisions that are driving real change in the circular economy. This is our series Thread Talks, and I'm your host, Amy Campanella, Development Director at Economy. Circular Sound Bites, our economy podcast. And I am so excited to be joined today by Owen Ritchie, Managing Director of Clyde Recycling. Owen, welcome.
SPEAKER_00Thank you very much. Thanks for watching.
SPEAKER_01We are here in your hometown of Glasgow filming today.
SPEAKER_00Correct, yes.
SPEAKER_01Tell us a bit about Clyde Recycling and the history with textile recycling.
SPEAKER_00So Clyde Recycling was um formed by my father and his cousin 40 years ago now. This is our 40th anniversary this year.
SPEAKER_01Oh happy anniversary.
SPEAKER_00Thank you. Um but previous to that, we were always involved in textile recycling. So it was um my great-grandmother um who started it um chapping the doors across Glasgow on the East End. Um and then it just grew from there. She'd bring the clothing back, she would grade it. You had people in Glasgow called hawkers that used to come in, they were market stall uh buyers. So that's that's where it began. Then it formed into Clyde, Clyde Recycling. Um actually, initially, when my dad and his cousin started it, it was Clyde Salvage we're called, and then it developed into Clyde Recycling. So that's who we are today, and it's myself who's the managing director and running the company.
SPEAKER_01So 40 years of Clyde Recycling, what are you gonna do to celebrate? What are the party plans?
SPEAKER_00Um well going over to Africa um this weekend. Um, we're going over to a conference called Landfill to Landmark. So my brother, who isn't working in the business but um is a is a is a lawyer and and then he helps out from time to time. So he's coming along as this kind of celebration of the 40th year. Um and we're just we're we're just kind of marking it like that, to be honest. It's a conference that that was started last year, um, and it was developed around bringing importers, exporters like myself, um, and policymakers together and trying to just um kind of work together and on on the future, as you've got ultra-fast fashion that's hitting hitting these markets in in Africa, and the quality's taking a real a real hit for the for the for the retailers out there. So it was trying to bring all the people together um to make sure that um we've got the quality still cut going to these African markets and we've got quality control and checks and transparency.
SPEAKER_01I really want to get into more about the export markets and the reuse markets. But before we do that, let's talk a bit a bit more about where the textiles come from and then what happens to them when they're at your factory. So, where where are you getting the textiles? What are the textiles?
SPEAKER_00So the textiles are that they're collected from charity shops, textile bins, local communities, um, schools and nurseries, and and some retailers as well, like take back schemes and things like that. So I've got a fleet of trucks all across Scotland. Um I've got two long-haul drivers that go up to the north of Scotland, up Timber Ness and Aberdeen. They stay in their cabs overnight, they come back down, they get emptied, and they go back up. They do that twice a week. So we're all over Scotland, right up the north to Fort William and right at the borders. We're working with local charities and some bigger name charities, and most notably Bernardo's, who we've worked with since we've been formed, really. So it's been a good relationship. So we service them all across Scotland, um, over 100 shops.
SPEAKER_01Oh wow.
SPEAKER_00So the clothing then comes back to my depot, it gets offloaded, it goes into the to the factory where we've got sorting lines and we've got graders who are on these lines that are picking the clothing for reuse. It's then weighed off, it's checked, and then it's packaged and it's shipped to the end markets.
SPEAKER_01So we're talking about textiles, we're talking about clothing, footwear, textiles, accessories, plus household textiles as well that you're collecting from the charity shops. It's what they aren't able to sell. So this is helping to further fundraise for their beneficiaries. And how much of that is coming back to your factory every week?
SPEAKER_00Um, so we're processing now a hundred tons. We're we're we're hit the hundred tons mark a couple months ago. Um, and we're processing and collecting that. So we're self-sustainable there and we're looking to grow that in the future.
SPEAKER_01Wow. So everything that's coming in every day is going back out.
SPEAKER_00Yes, everything that comes in each day is getting processed and turned back around.
SPEAKER_01I feel like this is where we could really do with an analogy on how much 100 tons is, because that's a big old number, isn't it?
SPEAKER_00Yeah. If you think about 40-foot containers, if you fill a 40-foot container, it's probably about seven or eight 40-foot containers packed every week.
SPEAKER_01That's a good visual understanding of the volumes that you're that you're working with. And the grading process, how many grades and what kind of grades are you sorting into?
SPEAKER_00So we've got hundreds of grades, hundreds of grades. The grades are just for the end markets, so they can change, they can change on a weekly basis. It's just keeping up with the with your customers, with the markets at their end. What's in fashion here might not be what's in fashion in your end market. So you just have to constantly change.
SPEAKER_01And what are some of the fashionable, desirable grades, most and least desirable grades right now?
SPEAKER_00It's very hard to pinpoint at what's popular at the moment. I think it's I think it's more to do with what's saturated in the market at the moment, what what there's too much of at the moment to what there's not. So a demand for them in their end market will re- re-relate back to to our sort and grading.
SPEAKER_01Hundreds of graves currently, 100 tons a week. How has that evolved over the past few decades?
SPEAKER_00So if you look maybe 10 years ago, we're doing maybe 50 tons, 60 tons, and even maybe three years ago, we were we were hitting 70. So it's been the past three years, we've seen a real spike. Um this is down to just people's buying behaviors and habits. Ultra fast fashion that we've touched on um is is is made clothing lower quality but higher yield. So it's it's it's becoming a lot trickier. We might have more tonnage, but it doesn't necessarily mean we've got more amounts of better quality of clothing. So the quality of clothing's dropped. That means it's harder to to wave your way through the the kind of the rubbish to get your your good.
SPEAKER_01And the export markets, tell us a bit about where the textiles are going to after they've been sorted and bailed.
SPEAKER_00So the export markets um that we're shipping into are West Africa. They are for summer clothing. Then we've got Eastern Europe. That's your higher-end stuff can go to Eastern Europe.
SPEAKER_01That's the cream, right?
SPEAKER_00That's the cream, yeah. That's that's stuff with labels on, which is a very small percent of what we bring in. It's it's roughly 2-3% of what you're bringing in. But that is going to Poland for us, um, where my customer's got some shops, he'll be selling it. Um, it's new clothing. And then we have other markets such as Pakistan. Pakistan takes more lower quality, they've got a lot of recycling plants in Pakistan. Um, so the lower quality they can work on out there as well. If they need to upcycle it a bit, mechanical recycling. Mechanical recycling. Um, that they've got they've got quite a lot of that in in their markets. Also, reuse. Oh, okay. It is reuse. Um, it's just it's maybe not got the same amount of life left in the garment as as what the African grade has. So so they're still getting reuse out of it, but that garment will then be at the end of its life in a shorter period than than the African grid. So they have taken it upon themselves to to work with this clothing in in Pakistan, and that's why there's there is a lot of these recycling plants out there.
SPEAKER_01Much of a UK market, anything in there for the UK?
SPEAKER_00UK market, we're selling industrial wipers um in the UK market predominantly. We also pick up brickabrac um and toys. So we're not only clothing brick-a brac and toys, we we picked up offering like a waste solution surface for our for our for our charities and our suppliers. Um so that has been a byproduct of the textiles.
SPEAKER_01And w what exactly is brick-abrac?
SPEAKER_00Brickabrac's just is brick-abracts like souvenirs, crockeries, any we small items that that that you would you would sell in a shop.
SPEAKER_01Like household decorative type things, yeah.
SPEAKER_00Small wee kind of decorative things and crockeries and things like that. So the shop that we pick up from, the charity shop we pick up from, they'll try and initially sell that. When they can't sell that, we offer them the the service that we will we'll pay them for the material um and we'll collect it instead of it going into the bin.
SPEAKER_01And the brickabrac, where does that go to for the toys? Does that go to Pakistan as well?
SPEAKER_00No, so the brickabrac and toys, we we're dealing with UK merchants who are sorting and grading it just like we sort and grade the clothes. So they sort and grade it, they take out the rubbish, they deal with that correctly, then they ship that to places like Iraq, the Philippines.
SPEAKER_01For reuse.
SPEAKER_00For reuse, yeah.
SPEAKER_01Why are these export markets important?
SPEAKER_00These export markets are crucial because if we didn't have these export markets, then the the clothing wouldn't go anywhere. It w it would come back to our factory and get recycled and it and it would sit in a warehouse. So we we need these markets, we need to work with these markets, they can be volatile, but that's when it comes back to the support that we what we're so desperately needing now from from from the UK government.
SPEAKER_01And what type of support would really be beneficial to help the infrastructure not only survive but thrive?
SPEAKER_00Financial support. Financial support is is is crucial. I think business relief, uh business rate relief, sorry, could be our could be our easy starting point. That would help us massively. That that would offset the minimum wage rise. So by raising the minimum wage, we're constantly up. And the price that we can sell the goods at is slowly decreasing due to world politics, volatile exchange rates, so what they have for the pound, what what what a container, a 40-foot container for me, would cost them two years ago, it's maybe doubled. So you you can't put that onto your end market, so you have to swallow the cost. And it's becoming increasingly hard harder and harder to do this.
SPEAKER_01What does the infrastructure look like outside of Scotland? Tell us about the other textile collectors and sorters.
SPEAKER_00So other textile collectors and sorters in the UK, in terms of sorters, you could probably count them in one hand.
SPEAKER_01Wow.
SPEAKER_00How many are left?
SPEAKER_01How's that changed over the years?
SPEAKER_00So it was it was all collectors and sorters, maybe early 2000s. It's not becoming f financially valuable for a lot of companies. So they've seen the opportunity to cut out the labour, collect the material, and ship it into countries that have got cheaper labour that can sort the clothing. They're in places like Dubai where the the average wage is is a quarter of what the wage is here. So that's where a lot of merchants are shipping their stuff into. We don't we we don't want to go down that road. We we've been doing this for for as for 40 years, like I said, and and we've got expertise. But you know, and and in a bigger picture, we've been we've been working with our staff for a long time. We've got staff that've been with us 15, 20 years that have they like part of a part of our family in a way. So I think to lose that would be very sad. Um and I also think that the UK have a responsibility to deal with their own waste. I think that we should be dealing with our own waste before shipping it into countries when we have no control. And when we're shipping into the lights of Dubai, we've got zero control. We shouldn't even be be shipping in waste. It's it's prohibited. It's prohibited in Dubai. Um so I I don't agree with with that method at all.
SPEAKER_01Am I right in thinking that there's some legislation coming up that's going to like potentially redefine the parameters on what's considered waste, or or are textiles, or is used textiles always considered waste?
SPEAKER_00I think used textiles is always considered waste. You know, you've got different legislation for Scotland and England. You've got you've got CEPA, that are the environmental protection protection agency in Scotland, and you've got the EA in in England. So sometimes it slightly differs in um in on their policies and the law. What I understand is when we collect the waste or when we collect from, say, a textile bank, it's it's classified as waste in Scotland. If we collect from a charity shop, it's still classified as waste. As soon as it comes back to our facility and it's run up a sorting line and it comes out in the other end, it's a product.
SPEAKER_01Got it. Side grading process helps to take it from waste to reuse. Yes. Which is super important to follow the waste hierarchy. It's right at the top. And again, that helps to reinforce the importance of these export markets. Because if there isn't a market in the UK, then it's important that we take advantage of markets elsewhere. And what about the commercial element behind that as well? These are businesses that are thriving off of buying and selling clothing from the UK and the rest of Europe.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, massively, massively. So I was in Africa last year for the landfill to landmarks uh conference, and I went to the Cantomantle market, which is a massive, massive market, um, selling all all things, but mostly clothing, shoes, handbags. Millions of people go to this market every week. That's why it is still still working. Yes, in a smaller scale, but the demand is still there for the clothing from the UK to go to these end markets such as Africa.
SPEAKER_01Good quality, reusable clothing that is seen as higher value than the low-cost, ultra-fast fashion that's coming in from the likes of Yes. The brands that we uh that we all know. Yeah. Tell us a bit about your customers. Who are they? I mean, you don't have to name them, but I mean, like, but yeah, tell tell us a bit about the customers and the relationships that you have with them. Because like we were talking yesterday, and you'd mentioned about how that one of your customers, you've been working with them for four well for almost the whole time, yeah?
SPEAKER_00Yeah.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. So tell us about the relationship that you have with your customers.
SPEAKER_00So customers that we have in these markets, such as Africa or West Africa, we've been working with them maybe 30, 40 years.
SPEAKER_01Wow. So that long-standing customers, really strong relationships.
SPEAKER_00Really strong relationships. We go through good times and bad times. And at the pat the past few years, nobody's really been winning. Um, so it's it's been very tough. The margins have shrunk razor thin for both sides. It's more competitive at these end markets. They're getting flooded from these fast fashion brands. And even if the quality's lower, they're selling at such a cheap price.
SPEAKER_01Tell me about import tax and how that can have an impact on the sector.
SPEAKER_00Um well, I think if we if we put an import tax on these ultra fast fashion brands, then we could we could ring fence that money and we could drip feed it down to companies like ourselves and other collectors and sorters and graders all across the UK. I think that it would put a control on it. It wouldn't stop it. So, you know, the consumer here in the UK they they still want cheap clothing. But this way, it would put it a responsibility onto the brands. It might make them slow down slightly, but it would help us deal with that with the aftermath of it all.
SPEAKER_01In an import tax, in a way, that could be EPR, extended producer responsibility.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, exactly.
SPEAKER_01We've got that in Europe, in four countries. It's being mandated EU-wide. Where are we with textile EPR in the UK? And where do we need to be?
SPEAKER_00Aaron Powell It's still very much in discussions. It's very much in discussions. Here in Scotland, we've had a lot of um stewardships and meetings and talks and a circular economy bill was passed last year.
SPEAKER_01Aaron Powell And like the EU, there's fragmentation here in the UK. Scotland is pr proceeding with a stewardship plan for textiles. We're waiting for the circular economy growth plan from a UK government perspective to see how textiles, if textiles even features in it. And so it'll just be interesting to see how it all unfolds. And it if and when we were to have EPR for textiles in the UK, like we do for packaging, that would very much be helpful to fund the textile collecting and sorting infrastructure, which is sadly on the decline. EPR could serve as a fantastic stabilizer. It could really help to prop up the industry and help it to survive and thrive. And how do you see textile recycling progressing with something like EPR as a way to fund innovation? What do you see could potentially happen with mechanical, chemical, thermal recycling with investment?
SPEAKER_00Yeah, with investment, we could we could look at making um yarn for these for these brands. Um if we if we push legislation like minimal recycled content for the brands, then I think that would be the domino effect. We need to get that legislation passed first, um, create the demand, and then we could really push on with it, the chemical side of recycling. Um but the brands have to be on on the same page. And um it needs to be there needs to be a demand for the product.
SPEAKER_01And on that note, what's advice that you would give to brands and retailers in the UK and all over the world?
SPEAKER_00To work with companies like ourselves, work with companies with ourselves. If you've got end of end-of-line stuff, um dead stock, then companies like Cloud Recycling, we could we can put it into markets where they've not got our presence and it would help us. It would help us bring our quality up, it would help the people in in Africa sell their clothing, it would help us compete with a lot of these um ultra-fast fashion brands. So I think they've got a crucial part to play in in the future.
SPEAKER_01Understanding what the post-consumer flow is of textiles and taking that into consideration when it comes to the manufacturing of new textiles. Exactly, yes. Developing infrastructure, do we do that here in the UK with UK money, or do we do that elsewhere where the flow of post-consumer textiles are going?
SPEAKER_00Well, I think the UK should be dealing with its own waste. So that would be sorting facilities, sorting out the rubbish and only selling on reusable um material to the end markets. I think if we had some investment of these end markets through the producers, through who's producing the material to put end-of-life recycling plants so that there's an option for these clothes to be recycled at the end of their lives. And that is the end of their lives when it's been reused and reused and reused, then hopefully we can reuse it again in a different way.
SPEAKER_01Having recycling technology where the product actually ends its life and then taking that recycled material and getting it back to where the manufacturing happens. And then that links back into what you mentioned about having minimum recycled content.
SPEAKER_00Exactly.
SPEAKER_01That's how we make it fully circular.
SPEAKER_00Exactly. And then it demands there.
SPEAKER_01Owen, thank you so much.
SPEAKER_00No problem. Thank you.
SPEAKER_01This has been a circular sound bites podcast. Thank you so much for listening, and thank you to my guest Owen for joining us today. If you would like to hear more circular sound bites, you can check us out on all major streaming platforms as well as on YouTube. And if you want to learn more about Reconomy and the circular economy, check us out at Reconomy.com. Circular Sound Bites, a Reconomy Podcast.