On the Hunt for Heirloom Seeds in the Collard Belt by Dr Edward H Davis

Join LuAnna and co-host Ira Wallace as they discuss the importance of heirloom collard seeds and their cultural significance. They highlight Dr. Edward Davis's research on seed savers in the Collard Belt, which includes North Carolina. Ira shares insights on the unique varieties of collards, such as purple and cabbage collards, and their historical and cultural importance. They also discuss the decline in home gardening and seed saving among younger generations and the need for projects like the Heirloom Collard Project to preserve biodiversity and promote regional seed stewardship.

Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:01

Welcome to the Crop Stories Podcast, where we bring the pages of the Utopian Seed Project's Crop Stories publication to life. Based here in the mountains of Western North Carolina, we're on a mission to strengthen our food system through the power of agrobiodiversity and the relationships that sustain it. Our Crop Stories program helps achieve these goals by connecting people to specific crops and their stories. If you believe in a more resilient, storyful future, consider supporting us as a monthly donor. You'll find the details in the show notes. And again, welcome to the Crop Stories Podcast. I'm Luanna and I'm so glad you're here. This is your host, Luanna Nesbitt, again. Um, good morning, everyone, and good morning, Miss Ira. How are you doing?

SPEAKER_03 1:08

Good morning. I'm doing okay. Not 90 degrees yet.

SPEAKER_01 1:14

Did y'all get your fall collard started yet?

SPEAKER_03 1:18

Not yet. Hopefully in the coming week.

SPEAKER_01 1:23

Mm-hmm. We just got ours started, so I was just curious where you were at. We're doing a little bit of selection work around trying to get our ultra cross purple collards a bit more purple. So, you know, overseeding them a bit and pulling the ones that we notice aren't as purple as the others. Um, so that's been a fun little task. It's cool to get to have some crops that we're starting at this point in the season. Um, gives you something to look forward to. Well, that's good. I'm glad you're doing okay. Um are there any interesting things that y'all have going right now or getting started?

SPEAKER_03 2:03

Not really. This has been um a year of transition of the people who are working uh on the farm. So we're just keeping things going and not doing anything new really.

SPEAKER_01 2:24

Um so well that's fair. That's also equally exciting, having some new folks on the ground that you're spending some time with getting them set up and ready. So I hope that's going well. We'll have to come visit y'all soon. Today we'll be focusing on Dr. Edward Davis's piece on the hunt for heirloom seeds in the collarbelt. And I'm really looking forward to what you have to say about this one, Miss Syrah as I believe it is pretty close to your heart, this story. Um, so should we just get started and listen to Ed's piece together?

SPEAKER_04 3:01

Great, let's go for it.

SPEAKER_02 3:06

On the hunt for heirloom seeds in the collared belt. Dr. Edward H. Davis. It was a cold January day in 2008, and I had driven the rural North Carolina back roads for days, and then I found what I was seeking in the yard of a modest brick home, an unusual shade of bluish green. I pulled over and knocked on the door. Excuse me, sir, I noticed your garden as I was driving by. My name is Ed Davis, I'm a geographer, and I'm gonna search around the southeast for seed savers. Your collards are different, aren't they? Well, the man smiled and said, I've been expecting you. Levi Grisset, a sixty five year old black man, lives on the land where he was raised in Brunswick County, just ten miles from the Atlantic Ocean. It's a great spot to grow collards, the soil sandy, the winter's mild. I asked about his reaction. Oh, I knew these collards were special, and I figured one day somebody would notice. You come on in, mister Geographer, and explain yourself. Over coffee, I explained that my partners and I were driving all over the region, hoping to discover the remnant seed savers who had collared seed that dates into the past. Levi told me he was given the seed by an elderly neighbor about forty years ago. He told me how he saves the seed. Every other year or so Levi will save about a dozen collard plants in the garden, allowing them to last until the following June. Having flowered in the spring, the collard being a biennial plant, they are pollinated by bees and then produce seed pods called seleeks, and each plant can produce thousands of seeds. Levi's collard is quite unlike the collar that store-bought seed would produce. Because it has been maintained in relative isolation from the commercial form, it looks different, the leaves varying in shape with several shades of green and slight hints of purple and yellow. My discovery of Levi and his collar patch was part of a four-year exploration project funded by the USDA. The US Department of Agriculture had supported that effort because seeds like those that I got from Levi have unique genetics which could help to breed new disease-resistant varieties of collard, cabbage, broccoli, cauliflower, coal rabi, brussels sprouts, and kale. Most people don't know this, but those seven plants belong to one single species, Brassica olaraceae. For example, heirloom varieties often show resistance to a disease called black rot, which has been devastating cabbage crops around the world. Reading researchers tell us that crop biodiversity has been dangerously low, so finding unique varieties of Brassica olaceae will make the world's food system less vulnerable. This is an important scientific mission, and that's why plant geneticist Dr. Mark Farnum, director of the USDA's vegetable laboratory in Charleston, South Carolina, was on our team. He had been studying collars, cabbage, and broccoli for years, and he knew the importance of diverse genes as a source of breeding disease resistance. He convinced us and the rest of the team of the need to save the last of these old varieties as a public asset. Bart told me these old gardeners already cherish their stories, their history, and they want to preserve that. We just need to show them that they can leave a legacy that extends far beyond their family or their hometown. The seed donors, which we found when their average age was 70 years old, often trace their seed back to their grandparents. Sadly, most told us that no family members were interested in seed saving. For one thing, far fewer people are gardening now than 50 years ago. My partner, John Morgan, and I surveyed thousands of college and community college students in the southeastern states and found on average, 52% of them had grandparents that raised a vegetable garden, but fewer than 10% of them had parents that raised a garden. In another project, I used Google Earth to map home gardens in 20 different counties in the southeast, and I estimated that only about 5% of homes had a vegetable garden. We might note that during the COVID pandemic, home gardening has risen significantly, but not enough to make up for the dramatic losses of the last 60 years.

unknown 7:46

Collard biodiversity was being lost. The seed savers we discovered were elderly and few. The tradition was dying out.

SPEAKER_02 7:56

This is partly because collard seed saving requires commitment. You must leave your collard plants in the garden all the way into the following summer, because you need that cold winter and spring to get those flowers and seed pods. Indeed, this winter hardiness explains the collard's dietary significance. Because it's adapted to cold months, a family can harvest a highly nutritious mess of greens every week during the time of year when green vegetables are generally not available. So it's historically important. You know, the British immigrants brought collars to America, but enslaved Africans were the ones who really introduced a deep appreciation for the nutrition in dark leafy greens. So it was with humility and respect that over several winters we traveled through Louisiana, Mississippi, Alabama, Georgia, Florida, Tennessee, South Carolina, North Carolina, and Virginia. We found collard seed savers in almost every state. Of our 90 seed savers, the majority were in the coastal plain of the Carolinas or Georgia.

unknown 8:59

In fact, that region should be considered the core of the collard belt.

SPEAKER_02 9:04

Other kinds of greens are rare, but most people have been growing and eating collards for a long time. Our system was straightforward. We would drive the back roads watching for collard patches. Although in some parts of the south, the fall winter patch would instead be turnip or mustard greens, the single most common greens we found in a winter garden would be collards. Upon a close look, a collard patch that had heirloom varieties would have plants that vary within the plot in color and shape. In southern Alabama, we found very purple collards. In eastern North Carolina, we found a range of yellow-green collards. Upon discovery of such a collard patch, we would approach the owner, get their story, and ask politely for a spoonful of seeds to store in the national seed storage system, which is the seed bank. The grower can name the seed, often using their name or a family member's name. Only once were we turned away, but most people, like Levi Grisset, realize they have something very rare and special. Every time I met a collared seed saver and explained myself, I got a big smile in return. Discovering those rare heirloom-colored patches of gardeners, black and white, I gloried in the landscape colored green by that appreciation. And those tiny collared seeds offered to posterity by the loving hands of rare gardeners like Levi connect us to an amazing history which the heirloom-collared project now seeks to preserve.

SPEAKER_00 10:44

Well, I have a lot of questions for you, Miss Ira, but I would love to hear just your initial thoughts and reactions to hearing Ed read his piece.

SPEAKER_01 10:53

I'm sure you've read the piece multiple times before, but how does it feel to hear him reading it? And what are some things that maybe you haven't noticed before that you noticed this time listening to the piece?

SPEAKER_03 11:07

Well it is interesting, you know, he mentioned uh the particular places like where the purple collars were and where the yellow green ones. And uh that was something that I had noticed uh and before I got introduced to the Davis Morgan collection when I was in Alabama, uh they had introduced me to the blue and purple collars. Uh and uh of course, yellow cabbage collars are something that if you're looking at heirlooms at all in North Carolina, you can't hardly miss. So it was yeah, having them called out like that was good.

SPEAKER_01 12:07

Yeah, that makes me uh think about this question I had for you of just like this history of discovering these unique collards and kind of how Ed initially discovered Levi Grisset and his collards, and what makes these collards so special. Um Levi mentioned in the in the piece, he says, I've been expecting you about this collard seed, suggesting that he was waiting for someone to sort of notice this magical, unique variety that he's holding. So yeah, I'm just curious about the history of this variety, of what you know about it and um how this variety was discovered.

SPEAKER_03 12:55

Well, Levi uh told Ed that he wasn't really a collared eater himself. His wife really appreciated it, and he grew that and maintained that variety for her and then in her memory after she passed away. Uh and so I I think for him it was uh you know, that close family relationship and also maintaining the type of collards that people in his neighborhood uh had and he just thought they were different. Uh, because he was known well known uh locally for growing big collared leaves. Uh and um when Ed Davis knocked on his door, he was like, Finally somebody n noticed and uh wants to do something with these special collared greens. Hmm. Can you imagine 40 years of growing something for someone?

SPEAKER_01 14:17

Yeah, that's a really special story. I love hearing that connection to how it wasn't even his favorite thing to eat or his favorite crop, but because his wife and someone he loved loved it so much, he was willing to steward it. And I think that's a really special thought. And a lot of times people are like don't have a connection to a crop, right? And they don't know what seed to kind of steward and work with. But this is a great example of finding an alternative way to feel connected to something. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 14:51

That kind of thing with collard is you know something uh that when I was growing up was much more common that people were saving seeds and uh you know, giving people samples when they got married and things like that.

SPEAKER_01 15:15

That was a question I have. Like, I'm curious where this the story of this actual seed, like how long it goes back, but you know, seed donors are often traced back generations. So what do you think that suggests about this like personal and familial value of these heirloom varieties that whether it was Levi or his wife's family, you know, what are the broader implications of you know losing crop biodiversity, as mentioned in this article? How is that connected to this idea of personal and familial connection to heirloom values?

SPEAKER_03 15:57

Well, when large numbers of people were saving seeds, um some of the problems that you ran into with uh crossing were uh somewhat eliminated because each uh family or neighborhood was separated by a good distance. Whereas, you know, as people have moved to live in more close urban areas, uh even if someone wanted to save uh collard seeds, it's a little bit more problematic unless uh people in a certain neighborhood save the same kind, like the uh purple ones in Alabama and the cabbage collard uh in coastal Carolinas. Um it's it's a it's a little bit of a problem. Uh as uh Ed pointed out, it's uh a commitment of almost a year to the crop individually and you have to do that every few years if you want to keep up your seed. So umadays people aren't as likely to have a diet where you're really counting on uh having those collards, you know, once or twice a week uh as a part of subsistence for your family. So it it it makes it makes it a challenge and projects like the heirloom collard project gives uh encouragement uh and uh an opportunity to interact with other seed savers uh and make it more normal in your gardening practice.

SPEAKER_01 18:19

Yeah, I'm thankful that you know the Heirloom Collard Project kind of aims to help these folks leave a legacy beyond their family or their hometown or whatever it be. It's cool to see how it's connected now to such a larger audience and group and inspiring so many people to get in the work of collards. Um the article highlights this decline in seed saving and home gardening in general. I'm just curious what are some reasons that you think this decline, especially among younger generations, um yeah, if you have any unique thoughts around why this decline is happening.

SPEAKER_03 19:03

Well, um there is uh a decline in the number of gardeners, but uh COVID actually reversed that decline. Uh and it's not enough to make up for, you know, 60 years of uh steady loss uh of gardeners and uh a concentration of them in cities, but it is enough uh because to start to make a a difference because people are learning uh about how this creates you know food security and uh maintains biodiversity and uh and that it's not that hard. It takes time and it takes planning, but uh you know, all of these people did this for hundreds of years. So uh even a young and beginning gardener can add uh collared seed saving into their practice. Uh and when you go somewhere with these great big armful of beautiful collars, it inspires people.

SPEAKER_01 20:37

Yeah, that's just making me think about this idea of people get people get really overwhelmed at the thought of seed saving and like having to save every single seed they use, which maybe isn't the necessarily this the case. You know, there could be a lot of sharing, and there is a lot of sharing of seeds and kind of re-weaving seeds into our um economy and sharing and bartering and whatever it may be, having that as not just right, we're looking at it as like individualized, like I have to provide all of this for myself when it could be a lot more communal and a lot more sharing of seed. And you know, that's I think why um which I want to ask you about this idea of the collared belt. How like what even is the collared belt and what does it its existence tell us about agriculture and culture in general and the history of the South, um, and this idea of sharing?

SPEAKER_03 21:41

Well, the the collared belt area is is uh you know, as Davis and Morgan defined it, that area uh in the Carolinas. In particular, where the sandy soils are uh encouraging of growth for ecologies, and the mild winters, there's enough cold to vernalize the seeds so that you'll have seeds, uh, but you only occasionally lose crops to cold winter temperatures. So, like where we are in Virginia, people can save collared seeds, but some years uh it's too cold for a few days and you don't have them. Although uh as we work with this project, we find if you save plants that are a little bit younger, uh they are more likely to survive severe temperature swings. Um and with the gardeners have that as a a priority. They also have tools like uh spun polyester, row cover that they can use to protect without very much trouble the uh plants that they're maintaining for seed for the next year.

SPEAKER_01 23:32

Yeah, that's interesting. Do you think I don't know if you have experience around seeing the sharing happen, but just the history of agriculture in the South, like what could we learn from past methods of sharing seeds and things from old examples like the collard belt and stuff? Um yeah, if that question's not clear, I can try and explain it a bit more. But yeah, just curious your thoughts on sharing seed and what is the best how have you seen it successful and not get kind of like co-opted by other things?

SPEAKER_03 24:18

Well, uh college in the Southeast, uh they were uh developed uh and became staple of life uh of food for uh African Americans. Uh and so it had going for it that it was a crop well suited to the climate in the Southeast, uh, but uh also that was maintained uh as uh a staple of the food ways of uh people who were being marginalized, first enslaved, and then during probe. And so even as people moved to the cities that uh collard connected them to their grandparents, to uh the farming ways that they came from. Uh I mean they would have great big trucks loads of collard uh shipped up to Chicago for the holidays and that kind of thing. Um so I I think that was uh important, the personal history uh helping to carry that on. Uh and having it be the right kind of weather and soil certainly can't be downplayed as uh making the efforts that the farmers uh made more effective.

SPEAKER_01 26:17

Yeah, that definitely answers my question around like how this article connects to the history of enslaved Africans in America and what does it reveal about the plants like cultural significance and um connection to resilience. Um you basically answered it, but if you have any other thoughts on that. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 26:43

Yeah. Because when we're looking at trying to chase down the history of collars, you see that they have a European origin, but that they didn't become significant uh until they uh were grown in this favorable climate in the Southeast and had large numbers of uh enslaved people who had a vested interest in uh growing them every year and adding a supplement to their diet. And having them in the winter when there's not as many green vegetables, of course, is important too.

SPEAKER_01 27:29

Yeah, there are so many different types and unique styles of collards. Um yeah, I'm kind of curious beyond their uniqueness, and it's funny because you were like just mentioning how they didn't really have any importance until enslaved people put importance on them and this cultural connection um to these marginalized groups. And I'm curious, like recognizing that obviously, as why the collard has been so resilient. I'm curious what the scientific importance of heirloom-collared varieties like Levi's. Um what's the scientific importance, especially like according to the USDA and other people?

SPEAKER_03 28:19

Well, collards, because they're a member of the Brasica Olaci, and they cross and exchange genes with broccoli and cauliflower and uh coal rabi and Brussels sprouts and these other varieties that are uh better known, uh, but the collards have uh a wider diversity in their genes that have been brought forth because of that seed-seeding tradition, and they can be used as a source of disease resistance for these more commonly uh uh eaten in the modern times uh varieties, and that's what caught the interest of uh genetics and uh of the gene bank uh at the USDA and it is yeah really nice that uh we you know have maintained uh mostly the unseen things, the disease resistances, uh and uh when you look at uh one of the young men in Ujama who has been studying root structures and uh see some of them have vast root root system and some are very small. And you know, just two common things, the big root systems can uh allow growing them in uh poorer soil and still getting sufficient nutrients. Uh, and the ones that are small might be able to be uh help adapt to urban gardening conditions. So um, yeah, there's all those hidden gems waiting to be uh discovered as people grow and uh cross and recross uh these varieties. It's pretty exciting when people write to us about uh, you know, how they found something that works uh where they are. Uh and we have people adapting them to further north northern climates as well at this time.

SPEAKER_01 31:30

Yeah, that's just making me think of this idea about regional adaption that we talked about maybe last episode. Um, this idea of regional adaptability and how like it's scientifically, yes, it's true, but a lot of people question it because they don't see it over their few years that they're working with something. But this story that you just told of, you know, it takes hundreds of years and commitment and um people who love and care for a crop for it to have the time to truly regionally adapt, right? And now we see collards being so adept and resilient because of this regional adaptation and this work that these people put in, and we're reaping the benefits, and we get to continue um continue with these regionally adapted and further adapt these crops, these collards, these collard varieties. Um, so it's I think it's a really cool story of regional adaptation that maybe we don't talk enough about. Um, but thanks for sharing that little story you just said. I feel like that connected a lot of dots for me. Um, and I'm sure it'll connect a lot of dots for other people too. So thank you.

SPEAKER_03 32:47

Yeah, if you come from a culture where seed saving is receding rather than expanding, you you don't get exposed to uh the biodiversity that you can have in a crop. And this uh heirloom-collard project introduces gardeners and small farmers uh to the fact that they can bring uh a diversity to their customers and their eaters uh of form, color, size, uh, and contribute uh to the nutrition and also uh the disease resistance and hardiness uh of gardens because we're trying uh with maintaining this biodiversity to also reduce the need for pesticides and herbicides uh for production. And uh, you know, collars are tough. They have been able to survive uh being grown in very marginal areas and still producing nutritious food uh for their gardeners.

SPEAKER_01 34:26

I love hearing your thoughts around collards and yeah, just thinking about the actual story and life that collards have lived. I feel like in the state of the world today, it's just really touching on my heart to hear of this crop and what it means for people, and um just remind ourselves that how important food is for not only our nourishment, but also our um cultural connections and the joy we find in life. So it's nice to hear that. I would love to have you share anything else that's on your mind or heart that you want to share around this story that Ed Davis shared for us and this story around Levi Grisset's collards, or anything else that's popped up for you um before we wrap up.

SPEAKER_03 35:21

Well, I was when this led off with Levi Grissett, because he was uh one of the last C tears that they interviewed, and he didn't make it into the book that they wrote. Uh and it was nice to see him and his wife featured uh in the color journal because he was an example of uh an enthusiastic example of the kind of sea tierers who had brought all of these varieties uh to the future uh and to our present, uh where hopefully some of us will take on maintaining them. And uh that's that's one reason we have offering so many collards at Southern Exposure is to make them more widely available to gardeners everywhere, especially in the southeast where they're so well suited.

SPEAKER_01 36:38

Well, we are so grateful for that work that you were doing on sharing the good word of collards and getting more varieties out into people's hands to grow. Because I do believe once people start growing them, they they start to connect with them very easily. Um and they're such a fun and easy crop, really, to to work with. So especially when you find that perfect variety for your region or your spot, your location. Well, thank you, Missyra. I really appreciate yeah, just your thoughts on that. Um on this idea of sharing collard seed and why it's so why it's so important to continue this regional adaptation of um not only collards but other crops too.

SPEAKER_03 37:31

Yeah, it's nice to use modern media to take uh an important uh traditional uh food and raise it up and remind people that they too can be a part of the story of moving forward.

SPEAKER_01 37:54

Yeah, it's really special. Well, thank you, Miss Cyro. I guess we'll wrap up today on our fourth collared episode. They are just getting better, and I feel like each episode we're diving deeper into our hearts around what this beautiful crop really means to us and to others. So it's really exciting to hear just all the different themes that pop up and the different stories that you've been sharing. So thank you for your time, and we are excited for future episodes. So yeah, can't wait to see what we get into next time. So, everyone join us then and thanks for listening. Um, and here's two collards and honing in on this heartwork of regional adaptation. So thank you, Miss Ira.

SPEAKER_03 38:47

Thank you, and good luck with your finding even more purple in the purple collard collection.

SPEAKER_01 39:03

Thanks for spending some time with us in the crops we love. Every seed we save and every story we tell helps shape our food system into something deeper and more resilient. If today's episode sparked a bit of curiosity, please share it with a friend or fellow gardener. And if you're able, head to our show notes to become a monthly supporter via our Crop Stories donation link. Your contributions help keep this project going. Thank you, and until next time.