Daisy Dyke and the Queer Spectrum

The Hoovers figure out their drag names, alter egos, and Brooke's connection with the Spice Girls. 

#HelloHoovers #WLW #BrookeEden #Hilaryhoover #Relationships #lgbtq

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Hello Hoovers is a refreshingly candid new podcast from country artist Brooke Eden and her wife, Hilary Hoover, a powerhouse couple whose love story has quietly reshaped what authenticity looks like in country music and beyond.

Brooke is known for her commanding vocals, fearless honesty, and groundbreaking visibility as one of the first openly queer women in mainstream country music. Hilary is a former country radio executive turned real estate investor and LGBTQ family advocate. She brings the kind of calm wit and lived experience of someone who is both behind the scenes and in the spotlight.

Together, they take listeners on wild ride navigating marriage, music, motherhood, and modern queer life in Nashville with the same warmth and humor that made fans fall in love with them in the first place. No topic is off limits —from coming out in a conservative industry to balancing career and parenthood, no conversation is too real, too funny, or too tender to share.

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Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:00

Hey y'all, I'm Brooke.

SPEAKER_00 0:01

I'm Hillary.

SPEAKER_01 0:02

And we're the Hoovers. She's a singer. She's an entrepreneur. We're wives. We're moms. And a whole lot of other things. And this is Hello Hoovers. Well, hello. Hello. Okay, I think we have to tell everyone about our drag names that we have named ourselves.

SPEAKER_00 0:20

Well, we were just having a side conversation that uh that brought it up. Yeah. Well, would you like to say, well, should we talk about how we got here? Yeah, of course. Okay. So we've talked about drag names in our group of friends, and a few of them have a have drag names, and Brooke's always been like, I just can't come up with one. Um when we were watching drag race the other night.

SPEAKER_01 0:42

Yes. And you were like, What's your drag name? And I'm like, I don't know. Like, I obviously need a drag name. So you got to like chat GBT.

SPEAKER_00 0:50

Well, I wanted yours to be like, I feel like everybody's got to have a thing. Like our friend Ford, his is well, at least he uses sometimes Pelotonia, which is hysterical.

SPEAKER_01 1:01

I wanted Chris Chris Hausman's is Christy Anna T.

SPEAKER_00 1:05

Christy Anna T.

SPEAKER_01 1:07

Christy Anna T.

SPEAKER_00 1:09

Like I want it to not just be like a name, but like really, it's gotta really stick. And so I was like, yours has to be something gay and something country.

SPEAKER_01 1:18

Guys, I'm so proud of her for this. Guess what you came up with? My drag name is Daisy Dyke.

SPEAKER_00 1:28

Daisy Duke's gay twin sister. Yes. Um, and then we were trying to come up with mine, it got more complicated then, but I feel like Daisy Dyke fits you.

SPEAKER_01 1:38

Well, then we're like, okay, Hillary's has to end in Dyke 2 because we're married, because that's like our last name and like family name. And so hers has to be Dyke 2. And so we decided that she is Mia Dyke.

SPEAKER_00 1:52

I don't know that I'm I don't know that I'm sold on it, though. Because it doesn't say anything about me.

SPEAKER_01 1:57

Right.

SPEAKER_00 1:57

It just says that I'm a dike.

SPEAKER_01 1:59

I know. So we're still working on it, but Mia Dike, and then Adam was like, no, if Hill is Mia Dyke, then Brooke should be she a Dyke.

SPEAKER_00 2:07

Yeah. All right. We we at least are bringing ourselves up. Whatever. Daisy Dyke is my is my dragon. Yes, yes. We'll we'll see if mine sticks, but you know, it's good. Today Daisy, Daisy Dyke has to be wearing Daisy Dukes, though.

unknown 2:24

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 2:24

Like you have to be wearing Daisy Dukes.

SPEAKER_01 2:25

She's out of character. I mean, I'm not in drag right now, so yeah. I don't even have my weave in tonight.

SPEAKER_00 2:30

So maybe we do like it at some point where everyone is in is in their is in drag. Next Cowgaze episode, maybe.

SPEAKER_01 2:38

Yeah. Well, I talk about how like obviously I'm I'm a woman, but I do get in drag every single time I perform. Like when people see me outside of like when I'm performing, they're like, bruh, bruh. Because I'm a transformer. Like I'm blonde, I have like very light features. I have like my eyelashes are like blonde, you know. So like when I put on makeup, like I go from like you can't really see any of my features to like boom, you have features, right? So I'm like a full transformer and I full like it's the it's the glam, it's the eyelashes, it's the full weave. It I get into drag.

SPEAKER_00 3:20

Yeah. I will say that people they'll recognize you, but they're not necessarily 100% sure because you because even if you're in makeup, you're you you do. I always do a light version. Yeah, light makeup and then like Brooke Eden on stage makeup. You also have a different, I feel like you have a different energy too. Yes, like it's not like you're you're acting differently, like you're still fully you, but there's something about the way that you carry yourself when you're in your Brooke Eden glam. And just like when you're getting ready to go on stage, that I'm like, that bitch is ready to sing, that bitch is ready to perform, Brooke Eden is here. I I have always called her a different person though, even though your name is Brick Eden on and off the stage. Yeah, I still will say, like, oh, like that's Brick Eden versus like Brick Hoover, like our household name.

SPEAKER_01 4:07

Well, sometimes, and this is like, I think that this uh back in the day when I was like touring a lot and we weren't getting to see each other a lot. I do think that I had to kind of like take on this like bad girl persona to like harden myself because I missed you a lot when I was on the road. And so I would like harden myself and get into this like performer mode. I don't do that anymore.

SPEAKER_00 4:29

Alter ego. Yes.

SPEAKER_01 4:31

And like sometimes I would get home from like a long show run and you'd be like, Hi, Brooke Hoover. Or this is before we were married. You would be like, Hi, Brooke Eden, can I have Brooke Healthy back?

SPEAKER_00 4:41

Yeah, totally, totally. I'd be like, All right, we're gonna turn off the artist girl. And that and that's not even just you being on stage, it would be like the interviewer, you know, side of you, or just like a maybe more formal or something, I don't know what it is, but yeah, I would kind of be like, Hey, gonna need to get my girlfriend back or my wife back or whatever. And then you wouldn't kind of come back to me. But there was definitely a time where I had to like get get the alter ego to to step aside.

SPEAKER_01 5:06

Yeah. I do think that I have a very healthy alter ego now. It's literally just like I get on stage and I'm like, let's do this, yeah. But back in the day, it was very much this like protective shell that I went into. I like went into like straight mode where I couldn't say it's like clo it's like closeted.

SPEAKER_00 5:26

I mean, right now it's more stage on stage and off stage, but it used to be like closeted and and comfortable. Yes, yeah, very much that.

SPEAKER_01 5:34

And so I would come home from like a week of having to like play this other part, you know? Totally. And then like turning that character off is just hard. Yeah. Yeah. And so I would come home and you would be like, Where's my baby? Can we get out of this mode? And it was literally like you having to crack my shell back open from like this protective barrier that I had put on myself while I was traveling and doing my darndest to be very to try to be straight. Straight.

SPEAKER_00 6:02

Yeah. Totally.

SPEAKER_01 6:04

Yeah. Speaking of that, this week we're talking about sexuality. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 6:08

Which you would think, like, you would think we've touched on it. You know what I mean? Like you would think that it's it's something where we've like, okay, cool, they're lesbians, I get it. But like we've just been talking to a lot of friends lately who, like, if it's like a it'll be like a gay friend who is like very 100% gay. This is not a convert conversion therapy conversation, like so very gay. But like they'll say something and they'll be like, I think like Brooke was like hot in that. And I'm like, yeah, totally. Like she looks hot. And they're like, no, I mean like hot. And I'm like, are you kind of into her right now? Like we make jokes about how like every now and then, like, our gay friends will have like a quick little like half straight moment.

SPEAKER_01 6:46

Let's be real, most of the time it's about you doing something hot, like you like putting air and tires on a car, or like you putting together a bed, or yeah, it's because you're a hot lesbian, exactly. Just me. But also, it's kind of like man things, yeah. Like stereotypically, like, you know, I think that anyone in general would be like you guys like put that bunk bed together and we're like, yeah, we always do that stuff. But like when you do it and you just kind of kind of flip your hair, all the gay, all of our gay men are like, well, it's me when I'm doing like boss things, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 7:27

And it's you when you're fully glammed, like into this, like we said, that other character. Like when you go like full, like sometimes in the chaps and all that kind of stuff, then sometimes our gays will be like, whoa.

SPEAKER_01 7:40

But then on they it's because sometimes when I have like chat chaps on, I do get very bossy and I kind of get into this like daddy mode, and all of a sudden, all of our gay men are like daddy, and I'm like, hey, yeah, totally. What's up?

SPEAKER_00 7:56

And on the on the other side of that, we have friends that are, and I'm gonna put it in quotes, straight, that sometimes will be like, I kind of think that I like could be a lesbian, or like I kind of think like I want to be a lesbian. And yeah, and like total asterisk, total like thing that I want to be very clear on is that we are not at all insinuating like sexuality is a choice, like tomorrow you can go be gay or be a lesbian, or like tomorrow a gay man could go like be into a woman and be cured. Like that's not at all what we're saying. We're just saying that there is a full spectrum of people. I mean, every single person falls on the spectrum. Some are pretty hard on this side and some are pretty hard on the other side, but we are just like so adamant. It's like hot take, no one is fully straight, no one is fully gay. Yeah. And a lot of our straight friends uh will be like, okay, like I maybe could like be into women. Like, where do I start or how do I do this? And it's like so funny because I feel like some women come to us and like want to have like straight conversion therapy. Yeah. Where they're like, hey, I've been conditioned to be um straight my whole life. So like date men my whole life, and it's not going well. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 9:09

So like how do I hop to the other side? And like you guys date, and I feel like it's this, it's like a lot of these people are like friends, friends that we have been friends with since we were like in college when we were dating men. Yeah. So I feel like they are like, tell us the secret. Is there a button that we can push? How do we like how do we do this thing where like I've dated men my whole lives? You dated men until you were like 22. Right. So what do we do from here? How can I make the make the switch over it?

SPEAKER_00 9:37

Yes.

SPEAKER_01 9:37

And it's like sometimes it feels like an interrogation of like, tell us what you did. Yeah, totally. Like, like, what's the secret? I wish we could tell, but like, we just met like a woman and like kissed her. And I think that that is a big thing too. Is like we are conditioned our whole lives to be straight. Like, I was I fantasized constantly about kissing women, but when it came down to it, I was terrified to kiss a woman because, like, how different is it gonna be? And is it gonna feel so different? And yes, it does. It's much softer and more amazing and sexy and wonderful and better. She's gay. But like, I was scared of that, and like scared of like I don't know, just kind of like all the things.

SPEAKER_00 10:17

There's the social elements too. You're like, how do I do it? When do I do it? Who do I do it to? Can they keep my secret? Like, there's a lot more to it than just so much more to it. Whereas with the boy, it's like, oh, got drunk on Friday night and kissed a boy, and it's that's the end of the conversation, right?

SPEAKER_01 10:31

Exactly. And no one questions you about it, and they're like, Did you shack? Yeah, you know, like it's just like immediately so normal. But like, if you kiss a girl, also I remember being like, Oh my gosh, like if I kiss a girl, does that mean I'm gay now? You know what I mean? If it happens overnight, like, yes.

SPEAKER_00 10:48

Well, and I think that a lot of people, it's like sexuality is not a choice, but being open-minded to different sexualities or different people is a choice. Yes. And I and I know that Glenn and Doyle talks about this some because, and I'm gonna misquote her, so so don't come at me, but she says something along the lines of like she gets in trouble a lot of times, like from the queer community, because she will say like that it was a choice for her. And she's like, I don't mean that I just chose to be gay overnight, but she's like, I did choose to allow that part of me to like open up. Like I allowed when I chose when I met her wife's name is Abby. She's like, when I met Abby, I chose to like see that side of myself and like see if that was possible. I do feel like it's the open-mindedness that's the choice. And then if you're open-minded and you can go down that path, and that path just means like a date or a kiss or an experience where you're attempting it, and it might not be for you, and that's okay.

SPEAKER_01 11:49

I feel like it should literally be like when you start dating, like try dating a man, try dating a woman, maybe try dating someone non-binary, like literally just try it, and it doesn't have to like put a stamp or a sticker on you that says, like, you are straight or you are gay or you are bi or you are demi or you are pan or you are whatever. Like it doesn't matter. What matters is that you're with someone who fulfills you and you fulfill them. Like that's period it.

SPEAKER_00 12:18

I have an idea. Okay. Okay, so you know how when Amish people are like 16, they go on a rum springer. No, I do not know about this. Okay, let me let me educate you. So you know how Amish people like um don't use electricity and they like have an entirely different lifestyle, right? An entirely like they can't touch drugs.

SPEAKER_01 12:39

How do you know about this because of Indiana? No.

SPEAKER_00 12:43

How do you know because of it? Okay, you watch a documentary? No, it's on um, it's on a lot of things, but it's on um Orange is the New Black. Take my gay card. Okay. So, so I forget her name, but she's like has long blonde hair. Yeah. And she was exactly what you're talking about. So she was Amish. What is this? Rum a Shabada? I think it's called Rum Springer. Is that right? I spring somewhere. I don't know. Rum springer. Rumspringer. Okay. So they go and they, I think it's like around 16. I am like kind of halfway making this up, by the way. And um, they get to like go be the term is English. Like they're if if you're you're Amish, but then if you're going into like the English world, which is just like to us like American everyday life. Oh, yeah. And they get to go be normal everyday teenagers. And I want to say it lasts like a year, might be making that up. And they like also like you know, Amish people have to wear certain clothes. Yeah. So they can wear normal clothes, they can go out with their friends, they can use electricity, they can go to certain like normal schools and they just experience life outside of being Amish. Okay. And then at the end of it, they decide which life they're gonna choose. So they can either go back to being Amish.

SPEAKER_01 14:01

Are they gonna be English?

SPEAKER_00 14:02

And that's like their choice forever. But you're kind of if you're if you choose to be Amish, you have to follow by the rules for you. And you're kind of like banished from your family, right? If you choose to be Amish, you're in the family. Right.

SPEAKER_01 14:12

If you choose not to, you're kind of banished from your family, kind of. Kind of like if you choose to be gay.

SPEAKER_00 14:17

So I'm just saying, but we should have like a queer rumspringer where everyone, when they turn a certain age, just like tries, and I'm not talking like we have to like go have sex with people. I'm just saying goes on a date, like kisses somebody, it has some sort of experience where they like see if they could be attracted to whatever sex they the opposite of whatever they think they're supposed to get. Yes. And try it out, and then they can be like, you know what? Not for me, no, thank you. And that's cool. Live.

SPEAKER_01 14:46

Or they can be like, finally, this makes sense. Right.

SPEAKER_00 14:48

Or they can be like, you know, I like a little bit of both, but yeah, it shouldn't like it shouldn't be this thing where like you have to go down this straight path your whole life and then have to like go against the norm randomly and like come out to people. So yeah, queer Rumspringer, we should invent it. Maybe it could be like a camp or something. I don't know. Haven't we?

SPEAKER_01 15:05

The opposite of conversion camp.

SPEAKER_00 15:06

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 15:07

I do think that's like sometimes the um excitement of like doing something that you're not supposed to do can like really just take over your brain. Yeah. But also like if it was if it was just like free to do whatever you wanted to, right? Like, would it just be not a thing?

SPEAKER_00 15:27

I think that conservatives would probably call what I just described as the gay agenda, as like me. I'm not trying to force anybody, I'm just saying it'd be cool if people like had the action at a younger age.

SPEAKER_01 15:38

I feel like I feel like the straights would immediately be like, that was not for me. I did not like it at all. It's like going on a bad date, you know? Yeah. And the gays would be like, oh my God, this finally makes me feel like a human being. And I think that that's kind of like the thing about all of this is like, you know, I grew up, and by the time I was literally three years old, I knew that I liked boys and I liked girls. And then at five years old, I went to a Baptist school where they told me I was going to hell if I liked girls. So it was like, oh, okay. So like that's not an option anymore, and I had to put it to the side. So I was only dating guys and dating guys to me felt so performative. Like, if there was like a hot guy on campus at my school, I always wanted to date him because it felt like I was winning something. Because when I actually with him, because when I was actually with him, I felt dead inside. Like I felt like I was I would go on double dates with me and my best friend and her boyfriend. And I would be like, we would like talk afterwards and she'd be like, oh my God. But then we like kissed and I like felt all these things. And I was like, then we kissed, and I was like, Oh, this like I just think he might be a bad kisser. You know what I mean? Like, I remember being like 14 or 15 and like going on double dates and like comparing my experience to her experience and realizing that like we were just feeling two completely different things.

SPEAKER_00 17:13

And didn't you say once too that like you're like you would go out on a date or go do something with a boyfriend or whatever, and you'd come home and your mom would be like, Was it so much fun? Or like, don't you do you want to like do more with him, or would like try to talk to you about like how much you like might want to kiss him or like do things with him? And you were kind of like, eh.

SPEAKER_01 17:32

Yeah. Yeah. I was very like, and my mom thought I was super prude because I just like didn't want to do anything with him. And so did I, honestly. I was just like, oh, like maybe Christian. Yeah. Purity ring. Literally, give me a promise ring. Like I felt so awkward about all of it, and it just didn't feel natural at all. Like being with a man has never felt natural to me. And I think that unfortunately for a lot of straight women who want to date other women, being with a woman is not gonna feel straight to them either. Right. But the number of times that we've had, like, I'm not talking about like, hey, do you think that I could date a woman? But like literally interrogations on like how to like that.

SPEAKER_00 18:20

Sit down and figure out how to make how not to make me gay, but like how I can like get to where you guys are. Yeah. Like what's the first step? We had a friend of your or a friend of ours, but a friend you went to college with come to us and she was like, I mean, she would probably again, everything's fluid, so I hate putting people in boxes, but she would have probably described herself as straight. And she came to us and she was like, I would like, she actually called off her engagement and she was like with a boy. And then after she was like, you know what? I just feel like I'm done with men for a while. I like genuinely want to try to date women, and we were like, okay. And she's like, I don't know where to start. So I think maybe she went like on a dating app or something. Hi, Ivy. I think she went on a dating app or something and went on a date, and she actually like didn't not like it. I remember her being like, I don't know if there was that chemistry there that I wanted there to be, but I like so appreciated the fact that she was like, I like don't know for sure if that's what I want, but she was like not afraid to just be like, I'm gonna go on a few dates with girls and see what happens, you know. And even if they came out like, what's the worst case scenario? Like they're your friend, you know? Like you're like, oh, we actually vibed, but like more of a friendship, so we go out together sometimes. Yeah, that's cool.

SPEAKER_01 19:32

Sometimes the best thing to do, which is what you and I both did, is like date like a pretty like butchy woman to start with. And they'll it's like a gateway game. I was just gonna say it's like a gateway woman. It's a gateway woman because going from like dating men to dating like a masked woman.

SPEAKER_00 19:52

I mean, as far as like, you know, like the feeling of being with them, like masculinity is a it's a feeling, like it's a energy, and like outside of like the like being with a girl part of it, there there's kind of the more natural gender roles with that too. Like there's the like, I'm gonna take you out, and there's the I'm gonna open your door, yes, totally, and you I'm gonna teach you how to kiss a woman, and she did, yeah, yeah. And so you can like have that transition with someone who's like been there, done that, usually older, or further along in their journey, and can be like, and I'm not necessarily advocating for it, but it just happened to be like happened to be what happened with us, where it was like, okay.

SPEAKER_01 20:36

We both dated mask women before we dated each other. And that was like the first, each of us, the first woman we had been with, and then we met each other. So it is interesting because like the moment that I saw you, I thought you were the hottest person I've ever seen in my life. Like immediately felt like so drawn to you. I like couldn't help myself. With that being said, if I didn't know that you were queer, I don't know that I would have like made a move unless I was super drunk because I am not the girl who's like, right, if you're straight, I'm gonna try to convert you.

SPEAKER_00 21:11

We aren't naturally like pursuing where we're you we were used to being more pursued and not as pursuing.

SPEAKER_01 21:19

Less about pursued, like literally like uh home wrecking your straightness. Do you know what I mean? Like I am like, I don't I don't know that I would have like the balls to do it because I to come in and be like, ever been with a woman?

SPEAKER_00 21:34

Yeah, yeah, that's not really either of our style.

SPEAKER_01 21:37

There would have to be like a lot of liquid, liquid courage.

SPEAKER_00 21:39

And like I know we would have gone there. That's well, that tends to be how it happens, at least in my experience with anyone I've talked to like that didn't like have experiences with a woman until like their 20s. Yeah. I mean, I haven't heard a story that doesn't involve being very drunk the first time, which like as much as like I don't advocate for that, at the same time, it's like, all right, well. That's one way to do it, you know?

SPEAKER_01 22:02

Yeah. It is a really interesting and kind of like scary um new world to navigate because it is like, you know, you're you do have these like stereotypical gender roles that you do deal with like the entire time you're dating. And it also was like very big in our generation that like a boy opens your doors for you, gets you flowers, possibly pays for the date, like, you know, makes like the plan for the date, which is so backwards. The woman should definitely be making the date if you want a good one. Making the plan. Making the plan.

SPEAKER_00 22:37

It's like I plan you pay. Yeah. I'm not saying that's how it has to go, but that's a good, a good split right there.

SPEAKER_01 22:42

Right.

SPEAKER_00 22:43

But then when it's like, you know, two ladies. I will say that's been like one of the challenges I feel like of our relationship has been that they're like, we have roles in like what we contribute to the household. But as far as the actual like who who does what like romantically, like, because I think like my mom is like my mom will she won't fully make fun of herself for this. But she will be like, on Valentine's Day, your dad has to give me flowers, and they can't be some that he's swung by the supermarket. Like there's rules. That's her one thing. She's like, I don't care about anything else. But like on Valentine's Day, it's gotta be like effort, which I would argue that that's more effort than ordering them online. But she's like, and so then we gave her a hard time because we're like, what do you do for dad on Valentine's Day? She's like, she's like, nothing. And she'll like laugh at herself. She's like, how funny that I have this expectation. But like when it's us two, like we've had, I mean, we're 10 years in, like, we had to work at figuring out like what our roles were because the natural gender roles didn't exist. Like, who's in charge of lawn care? Who's the handy person? Who's cooking? Who's like who's doing the like normally gendered stuff? Yeah. And that's such an interesting part of like being in a like two-femme relationship.

SPEAKER_01 23:58

Yes. Yeah. And I also think it's hard too, because neither of us are gift, like care about gifts. I think that's good though. I know, but it's also like like both you and I feel the same way about flowers, which is like you buy me flowers, they die in five days. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 24:13

Like, but that's great because at least that's one thing that we don't ever, I never have to be like, oh, she's gonna be mad that I didn't get her a gift.

SPEAKER_01 24:20

I know, but if your mom's big thing is to like have flowers on Valentine's Day, that's the easiest thing I've ever thought of in my whole life. Right, right, right. You know what I mean? Like ours have to be more like experiences. Like you're the cook in our house. So like on Valentine's Day, I'm gonna cook. Yeah. You know, like switching the role, switching what we're doing.

SPEAKER_00 24:42

Or surprising each other. I think that's surprising each other. But you're right. That's all like it is a whole lot harder to say, hey, I'm gonna like knock your socks off than it is to say, I bought you flowers again. So to be fair, my dad's got it on lockdown now because he just like has them ordered, good to go. But it is funny that that it took a long time, I think, for them to realize like what exactly she wanted. And then it's they both are happy and they're like, cool, thumbs up, yeah. And for us, I'm like, yeah, I don't really care about gifts, but I do care. Not care, that's the wrong grade, but like if there's something that you know I've been wanting and it like showed up at the house or you brought it to me, I think that's really sweet. That's so different, expect or even want really a gift because it's my birthday, like couldn't care less. Like, don't worry about it unless it's like something that you saw and you were like, absolutely, she has to have this.

SPEAKER_01 25:29

Yeah. Okay, listen, I want to dig into sexuality and like the validity of sexuality because for me, you know, I knew at a young age that I knew that I liked to kiss girls, right? And then like by my teens, I knew that kissing boys was not like fulfilling to me at all. And then, like by my 20s, I was like fantasizing about kissing girls. And then in my 20s, I started dating girls, right? You, on the other hand, supposedly had no gay awakening. Like, I can't tell you the number of gay awakenings that I had in my life. Like the Spice Girls, Rose on the Titanic, um, Gretchen Wilson, uh Terry Clark.

SPEAKER_00 26:18

Your teachers, all you actually almost every teacher I ever had.

SPEAKER_01 26:22

Not like like two, three, three, lots, three teachers. Enough that's their bosses, their bosses. I'm I am clearly into women who are in charge. Yep. Um, but like the number of like the spice girls, like the number of like sexual awakenings that I had. Did I? Did I say spice girls already? Oh man. Well, the spice girls for a big one for me.

SPEAKER_00 26:50

Just in just in case.

SPEAKER_01 26:51

But like it is so interesting to me that you didn't have any of these like gay awakenings until literally a like more masked lesbian approached you while very drunk. So, like, how freaked out were you when that happened? And also, like, congratulations to me that I had her to get you there before I came along.

SPEAKER_00 27:21

So, buckle up. Yeah. Okay, so first of all, I promise I'm not avoiding the question, but I just thought of something. As long as you get there, I will get there. Okay. So we were talking about the Spice Girls, and I cannot believe this has not been brought up. This has not been put on social media, and our best friends, I don't think, know this. But Brooke is in the Victoria Beckham documentary on Netflix. On Netflix. There I am. She is, so it's like right at the five-minute mark. I know this because I've shown this to a few people. And she's a little blonde girl in the front doing like a you're playing like baby spice.

SPEAKER_01 27:57

Yeah, with my four besties.

SPEAKER_00 27:59

We are the mini spice. I just can't believe we haven't talked about that and like haven't brought that up. So we have to we have to look that up. We have to show people that that moment that you get to like you're talking about how they were your gay awakening, and you're actually in the Victoria Beckham documentary.

SPEAKER_01 28:12

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 28:13

Um, as a kid. So that was like probably during your gay awakening, and now you're in the documentary. Anyway, I will get to your questions. So Adam Mack brought this up during our Cow Gaze um podcast episode, and I tried to avoid it because I was like, this is not about me. But um I was now this is about you.

SPEAKER_01 28:32

And I I I have questions as your wife.

SPEAKER_00 28:34

Yeah, I know. Okay, so here I really didn't have any gay awakenings, truly. But I will say the only I do remember, and I still laugh at this, the literally the only thing that I can go. Oh, I thought she was hot. That's weird. Is when I was in college and we were watching the Victoria's Secret fashion show, and all of my friends and then all my friends were talking about how hot they were too. And so then that didn't really work because I was like, wait a second, everyone's like, and this, like they're just stunning.

SPEAKER_01 29:04

Yes, literally, an aunt would think that the Victoria's Secret models were. That's what I'm saying. That's what I'm saying. So then I tried, so then I was like, oh Ford thought that the Victoria's Secret models were hot. Like our gayest friends thought that the Victoria's Secret mode. That's my point.

SPEAKER_00 29:18

Is that then I looked around the room and all of my college friends were like like looking at the TV and going, like, oh my god, these girls are so hot. And so then that was.

SPEAKER_01 29:26

Did you never fantasize about kissing a girl?

SPEAKER_00 29:28

No. So um I was in my 20s. I feel like for me, I had no problem with like the kissing of boys and the like going on dates. It was just the I hit an emotional wall with them. Yeah. And I was um pursued drunkenly. Like I said, that's okay.

SPEAKER_01 29:49

But let's go a little further on the the guys. Okay. Like, was it that you just never saw you never saw like marrying a guy?

SPEAKER_00 29:57

You never saw like no, I totally, I totally like thought marriage was cool and gonna be fun. I was gonna get married and have babies, yeah, for sure. But I didn't, it was a theory, right? But I could never like see the guy standing in front of me and be like, that's my guy, that's my Prince Charming. It was always like this, there's gonna be some like magical man that I'm gonna want to marry someday. Cause like, yeah, absolutely. I was like the gonna like I like loved that as a concept. Like literally marriage kids, all I know.

SPEAKER_01 30:28

I'm not saying the concept, I'm saying like with your boyfriend, yeah. Were you ever like, oh my gosh, I can't wait to marry him?

SPEAKER_00 30:37

No. But I think and I think it was just, I just thought I was young and I was and I was. I mean, I was 18, 19, 20. And also in college, like a lot, some of my friends had boyfriends, but some of them were just like we make out with boys in college, and like we I was like living the similar lives to a lot of my friends. So I didn't feel like, oh, this means anything. I just was kind of like, okay, cool, I'm kissing boys and whatever.

SPEAKER_01 31:03

So when you come home from a shack, right? Like I shacked with boys in college too, where you like spend the night, but I shacked to say that I shacked. And I'm not saying shag, like have sex. I'm saying like sleep at a boy's fraternity house or a house. Right. And most of the time it was just because I was too drunk to find like a way to get home. And so I would just like sleep next to a boy in his bed, right? But I came home from those almost like bragging rights, like I shacked to like be the same as my friends.

SPEAKER_00 31:32

See, I wouldn't think it wasn't that deep for me, but I I would feel like shit though. I just would feel like, I mean, like hungover and just like that was not a right move. And like I could have found a way home. And you know, I just like did you have fun? Probably not. No, not really. It was more of just like, I don't know, it was just a lot, I mean, everything was so alcohol induced that like it wasn't, it just, I just never got that deep. I never had to think about it that hard. And then, like, then my first experience with a girl was a drunken one. And then I was like, I knew she was gay, but I at first I was like, well, that I was drunk, like the same way I felt about like drunken hookups, makeouts or whatever with boys. I was felt just felt very like, whoa. And then it went like very like slowly from a drunken makeout to then like a sober makeout to then like a feelings were talked about, and then all of a sudden I was like, this is weird because I'm not gay. But I I definitely thought like that it was just kind of like a friendship that had like shifted. I for a long time I didn't think I'm gay. I just thought like this is a gay person that was my best friend, and like it morphed into this other thing, and I don't really know what to think about it. And then like therapy helped, you know, but I think it's hard because how did therapy help? Well, at first, I remember like when I told my parents that I had a girlfriend, they were so quick to ask about my sexuality. They were so quick to be like, okay, so are you gay? And I remember like I did not have those answers. And so that was hard for me because I was like, Does is that what this means? I was like, I have a girlfriend and now I'm gay. Like, I don't, I don't know. I don't know how this works. Like, I hadn't been around a ton of gay people, like some, but not enough in my like really close circle that I could figure out what it meant. Um, but I went to a lot of therapy. A lot of that was just me, her bit basically telling me that it's okay for me not to know because I think I had questions, I think friends had questions, and it was just kind of this thing of like, what how do I define this? You know? And I think that finally I got to the point, like then I got with you, and then I was like, got it.

SPEAKER_01 33:45

If I So you still thought that you were straight when you were dating your ex?

SPEAKER_00 33:49

I just thought that I could go either way.

SPEAKER_01 33:50

She date they dated for four years.

SPEAKER_00 33:52

I thought that I could go either way. I thought that probably if she and I broke up, that I would probably be with a boy after that. But then through all of that, I never wanted to be with a boy. And then when it ended, I wanted to be with you. So, like the whole girl through the first half of my 20s, and then the next person that I chose was a girl when everyone in their 20s is like trying to hook up and hang out, and you can have your choice of like tons of boys. It like was when you and I first got together that I was like, I'm probably not quite as I knew that I wasn't straight, but I thought I was like bisexual, probably. And then I was like, I'm not choosing voice. Like attractions one thing, but at the end of the day, I'm not choosing voice. So that was like when you and I got together that I was like, I think that like if I was like thought I was here when I was younger, and then I thought I was here during the first girl, then I realized when I met you that like I was like leaning much more like lesbian than like bisexual. But I think what's cool about I'm gonna like give it to like Gen Z and stuff is that I like five years ago, even was like, got it, like I'm a lesbian and that's what it is, and that's the box I've been put into. I've dated two girls and that's where I am. I married a girl, like I'm a lesbian, and like I absolutely categorize myself as a lesbian. I do like that's truly how I feel. But I at the end of the day, it is kind of cool to hear people be like, it's fluid. And I'm like, do I categorize myself as a lesbian? Yes. But like it's okay if I'm like, you know, 90% there, 95% there, and it doesn't have to be so like that's the box that I choose, and that's whatever, you know. To me, it's just the easiest way to define myself in. That's genuine to me, but I'm impressed with the array of identities or lack of identities, really, like that that has happened now.

SPEAKER_01 35:46

But I have so many more questions, and I feel like our time is up. Okay, yeah, I think it is. Yeah. For this one, for this one. For this one. So let's do part two of this next week. Okay, because sexuality is such a spectrum, and there's so many like nooks and crannies to all of it that I just want to dive as deep into this as we can.

SPEAKER_00 36:06

Here I thought that I was gonna get through this and be like, cool, I answered all of her questions, we're good, but like you're gonna make me dig even deeper for like another another episode. So okay. We'll see you guys next week.