The Para...what?? Jesus Promises the Holy Spirit

In this episode of Facets of Faith, Pastor Katie, David, and Keith continue their exploration in the final discourse of Jesus in the fourteenth chapter of John. They dive into the arrival of the Holy Spirit in the gospel of John as Jesus offers comfort and encouragement to his disciples before his ascension and wonder at the role of the Holy Spirit in their own lives.  

This week's gospel reading is John 14:15-21

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Scripture quotations from the COMMON ENGLISH BIBLE. © Copyright 2011 COMMON ENGLISH BIBLE. All rights reserved. Used by permission.

Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:00

Hello, and welcome to this week's podcast of Facets of Faith. This week, Pastor Katie, Keith, and I will be continuing in the Gospel of St. John, chapter 14, which is also known as the Final Discourse of Jesus at the Last Supper, where he promises the disciples in this chapter that they will not be left alone, that after he is gone, the Holy Spirit will come to help them in their lives. So who is this Holy Spirit and why do we need the Holy Spirit in our lives? We hope that the questions that we ask each other and some of the answers that we provide will give you more clarity and also provide you with some opportunity to ask questions yourselves about the Holy Spirit. If you love me, you will keep my commandments. I will ask the Father, and he will send another companion who will be with you forever. This companion is the Spirit of truth, whom the world can't receive because it neither sees him nor recognizes him. You know him because he lives with you and will be with you. I won't leave you as orphans, I will come to you. Soon the world will no longer see me, but you will see me, because I live, you will live too. On that day you will know that I am the Father, and you are in me, and I am in you. Whoever has my commandments and keeps them loves me. Whoever loves me will be loved by my Father, and I will love them and reveal myself to them.

SPEAKER_02 1:30

Thank you. So this text actually picks up exactly where we left off last week. So last week we had the whole conversation of I am the way, the truth, and the life. Um, they will do even greater works than these. I will do whatever you ask in my name, and then if you love me, you will keep my commandments. It's one right after the other. And then just to remind ourselves from last week, too, this is all happening at the table right after Jesus looks at Peter and says, You will deny me three times, and we go into this text where Jesus is very pastoral, comforting, and loving for this final discourse, this final speech to his friends. Um this one is, I think, a little less well known than the one prior to it, but we hear a lot about the Holy Spirit in this one, which is something we as Lutherans don't talk about very much. So I am eager to talk about with you all tonight and see what we come up with.

SPEAKER_00 2:26

So, what are Jesus' commandments? If you love me, you will keep my commandments. Love one another. And love because I have loved you. And love God with all your heart, mind, and soul. Right. I figured I'd just start easy. Get us going. Yeah. Okay, good. We got that problem solved. Yep. So I will ask the Father, and he will send another companion who will be with you forever. That's like I would like to understand that language a little bit more. It's it's as if Jesus has to ask permission, like, to send the Holy Spirit. Like what is what's going on there? I don't want to read too much into it. I realize it's a translation and it's a you know, it's a it's a more contemporary translation, but it's it why like I feel like it should be just more of a statement, like I will send another companion, period, not a I will ask my father who will then send a companion.

SPEAKER_01 3:19

And then he finishes by saying, you know, even though you don't see and recognize him, you know him because he lives within you and will be with you. Okay, so why does he have to ask the father to send the companion? He's already here. He's already here. And I guess it's kind of like, well, uh, I guess he needs to make sure that something happens that we recognize. Because obviously we haven't recognized the Holy Spirit.

SPEAKER_00 3:43

And and or, or and maybe the disciples aren't aware that they already have that, they've been walking the path to hearken back to last week. Like they they're not even aware that they're on the journey already. There's no there's no recognition, and so Jesus is highlighting it for them.

SPEAKER_01 4:06

And I I'm thinking of baptism. And in uh in baptism, we receive the Holy Spirit, and in confirmation, it's reinforced there too. And if we're looking at the whole Easter season, if we're talking about baptism and tying baptism together, then it's natural to think about the Holy Spirit being a part of that and being a part of us.

SPEAKER_00 4:29

And there's a part of me that says that we benefit as we sit here today, we benefit from 2,000 years of theological construction, right? Like we we know how, quote, church or or our religion functions and works, and we have this um understanding of the Trinity and you know, et cetera, et cetera. These are the this is the first time that these folks have have heard this. They're still trying to grapple with the miracles that Jesus has done, let alone being in God the Father, and then somebody else called the Holy Spirit. What does that look like? What is that? Well, how do we see it? Yeah. This is all brand new for these folks. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 5:16

And to go down a rabbit hole, I mean, in a couple of hundred years, you're going to have uh a council that's going to try to grapple with the idea that the Holy Spirit is supposed to be co-equal in this, you know, in that whole Nicene Creed. So we have lots of things to talk about.

SPEAKER_02 5:38

Yes. Um, so coming back to the uh uh I will ask the Father. Um there are, I was trying to find it in John, I couldn't find it quickly enough, but I think it's in John, it might be in another gospel, but it's not unheard of. Where Jesus says, I do not ask for myself, but I, or I do not pray for myself, but I pray so that others might hear and know your glorification and all this kind of stuff. So I think here Jesus is saying, I will ask the Father, in kind of the sense of talking to the disciples, consoling them, comforting them, saying, Don't worry, the advocate is coming, which is another way of translating companion, which we'll get there in a second. Um, and so it's the sense of I will ask and God will send another companion. It's not this, I'll ask and see if God will do this. It's the don't worry, this is going to happen. So it's already like a, the answer is already there. It's not really a question. It's a question with an assumed answer, I guess you could say. Because there's a lot of ways when you have questions that are asked where there's kind of like a built-in answer to the question of, you're wearing a green shirt, aren't you? I know the answer. Um, but you ask the question as part of the conversation, so to speak. I want to pull out a singular word, which I very rarely do actually, but another companion. And so if we read this text as remembering that Jesus is preparing the disciples not only for his death and resurrection, but also for his ascension, then we hear this as Jesus saying, I have been God's present, manifested on earth for you in this time and space. And when I am not here, God's presence will still be here within you, dwelling, because again, that's a big deal in John, with you, abiding with you, you will not, and that's where it goes on to the you will not be an orphan. God will not abandon you. Just because I'm not here doesn't mean God's not here. And I think that's where it's getting into this idea. And so Jesus being like the first companion, which is an interesting translation, the first companion, and then the Holy Spirit being the one that will be here forever after, um, as a manifestation, as a um as the presence of God. So before we get into the whole council question, um so here is translated as companion, and the NRSV, it's advocate. Um, a lot of the times, a lot of church nerds, um, like pastors, will use the word paraclete. Um, and paraclete is the Greek word, and the reason why we often stick with the Greek word is because there are so many ways to translate it, and depending on the specific context in which the word is used, a different translation may or may not be more in tune with the vibe of what is being said. So paraclete can be translated as advocate, comforter, helper, intercessor, companion, all these things. And it's the word that John specifically uses for the Holy Spirit. And the word paraclete, and I think this is helpful, para means with or alongside, and caleo means to call. So to call alongside, to call with. And so the Holy Spirit, the paraclete, is the one who is called to be alongside us. And so that's that again, that idea of God has come alongside us as we walk the journey, as we make the journey by walking through Jesus initially with the disciples in you know 30 AD, and now is doing that through the Holy Spirit and is abiding with us, walking with us. I always like that use of the word paraclete, partially because it helps us break it apart. So it's not just companion, it's not just advocate, but it's all of these things all together, because this is what the whole this is what happens when the Holy Spirit is alongside us. Do you want to go back to the councils?

SPEAKER_01 9:55

Sure.

SPEAKER_02 9:55

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 9:56

Sure. Because we were talking about how um the these guys probably were hearing this for the first time. And yet about 300 years later, we were still struggling with that, and it leading to possible division, they had to come together at a council to try to nail this down.

SPEAKER_02 10:13

The council, I mean, this text here is so tricky because it does have all three persons of the Trinity. And I always love to remind people that as soon as you try to nail down the Trinity, you have said something wrong. Um, you have said something heretical that is against the teaching of the church, which is why we struggle so much with it, and we sometimes just rather not talk about it.

SPEAKER_01 10:37

Um, oh, I know.

SPEAKER_02 10:41

You notice I took vacation the past couple Holy Trinity Sundays. Yes. Um but so we've got the Father and we've got Jesus, and that relationship is fairly well um established throughout the Gospels, especially in John, when at the in the beginning was the word, and the word was with God, and the word was God, and oh by the way, the word is Jesus. Um they they're fairly confident in that, and they can say Jesus is God's Son, fully divine, fully human, etc. Well, then we've got this paraclete, this Holy Spirit stepping in, and at the time of the council, it becomes this question mark of, well, now what do we do with this? Is it on the same playing field as God the Creator and God the Son? Or is it like a helper, which is another way to describe Paraclete? Um is it just like a messenger? Is it like what is it? And so as they're trying to nail down understanding as best they can, the Trinity, that's where they were arguing so much. Because really, how can you have three persons and one God? The math, it's bad math. Yeah. Um so the councils are just struggling with it mightily, and they come up with language and it kind of dances around it.

SPEAKER_01 12:07

Uh yeah, I mean, in the creed, it's it who proceeds from the father and the son.

SPEAKER_02 12:12

Ah. Yeah. Uh what'd you make that face for?

SPEAKER_01 12:18

Well, I figured it was another rabbit hole we were going down. Well, yeah. The way you looked at me.

SPEAKER_02 12:23

Well, because uh if you'll notice then the latest um in the bulletins, we've been saying the Nicene Creed, with the Holy Spirit who proceeds from the Father and the Son, the and the Son was actually a later addition to the Creed. And so when we had Eastern and Western churches agree on the Nicene Creed at the Council of Nicaea in Constantinople, it was just the Holy Spirit proceeds from the Father. Period. And then a couple hundred years later, the Western Church was like, oh, and the son. And the Eastern Church was like, uh, we didn't agree to that. And so that's where the Eastern and Western churches split apart, was over that.

SPEAKER_00 13:00

What's the word for that? There's a fancy word for that.

SPEAKER_02 13:02

Filioque. Filioque.

SPEAKER_00 13:03

Filioque.

SPEAKER_02 13:05

We're getting into Latin, we're getting into Greek.

SPEAKER_01 13:08

And we covered that in Bible study.

SPEAKER_02 13:10

Yeah, I got some things down here.

SPEAKER_01 13:12

Yeah. That's why if you're listening to the podcast, you should come to Bible study. It's right. And so, Pastor, yes, it did stick.

SPEAKER_02 13:19

Yes, it did. Um because I mean, we get into this text here of I will ask the Father and he will send another companion. There sounds like three very distinct things. Right. And yet we proclaim one God. And so it becomes an age-old question of how do you talk about all three of these things in this singular sentence while maintaining one God and the full divinity of each and every person of God.

SPEAKER_01 13:45

That one line is still uh, you know, I'm trying to wrap my head around it. Uh, verse 17. This companion is the spirit of truth, whom the world can't receive because it neither sees him nor recognizes him. You know him because he lives with you and will be with you. So it's saying that the world uh cannot receive because it neither sees him nor recognizes him. You know him because he lives within you and will be with you. So it's incumbent upon us to bring the Holy Spirit, or at least do what we can so that the rest of the world can see and experience the Holy Spirit, pericly.

SPEAKER_00 14:25

Yes, I I mean I read that if I'm really, really trying to just parse the words. This companion is the spirit of truth who the world cannot receive, because it neither sees him, which is okay, we can't see the Holy Spirit. I mean, that kind of that's obvious, nor recognizes him. So again, back to the these are folks that have not had the benefit of 2,000 years of right, you know, theology, don't even know about this other presence.

SPEAKER_02 15:03

So I think another way that we could get into this or look at this or try to understand how it works when we say um the world neither sees nor recognizes it. In a world that is increasingly um secular by culture, people will look at, like they have kind of this world view wherein they understand various things. And inevitably they will come across something that gives them goosebumps or stops them in their tracks, when um they go to the Grand Canyon and they look out at this magnificent landscape and they're just their jaw just drops, or when they hold a baby for the first time, or when they experience unmerited grace, grace beyond grace, or anytime they have these kind of miraculous or sacred moments, they don't have a name to put to it. They, if they don't have a connection to God, they look at it and they're like, Wow. And they don't have anything else. Whereas when we who are in relationship with God, who are who have the Holy Spirit dwelling in and among us, we look at these things and we say, Wow, God. And we name that sacred experience. We name that sacred experience for what it is. It is God's almighty power, it is God's grace, it is God's beauty, it is God's life, and we can name it as such. And then so when we have, or or truth-telling, we can name truth and we can name these things in God because we have that relationship with God. If you lack that relationship with God, you're not gonna name things God, you're just not. And so I think what Jesus is getting at here is he is saying that the world will not receive the paraclete, the spirit of truth. The world will not receive the Holy Spirit the way you will, because they have not known me as I am. And so that's not to say that God will not interact with them in other ways. It does not say that God's gonna just hands off to all these other people. It says that they won't recognize the Holy Spirit in the same way you will, because they have not had the same experience of me that you have. And so then this brings us back to that verse that I bunted from last week. Um, in if you recall last week, there is a verse 12 of chapter 14. I assure you that whoever believes in me will do the works that I do, they will do even greater works than these, because I am going to the Father. And what's happening here is the church, the people of the followers of the way, are being promised that they will be filled with the Holy Spirit, that the Holy Spirit, the paraclete, will be called to be alongside these people as they continue the ministry that Jesus has started, and through them the church will grow. Jesus did a lot of incredible, amazing things in Galilee, in Jerusalem.

SPEAKER_00 18:19

For specific people.

SPEAKER_02 18:21

For specific people in a specific time, in a specific place. And then through the Holy Spirit, God is continuing to do incredible, amazing things through people throughout the entire world across all of time. It is still God who is doing all of it. It's just that now God is doing it through people, regular everyday people, instead of God doing it God's self, through Jesus, in Jesus, as Jesus Trinity.

SPEAKER_00 18:49

We would not know Jesus, Son of God, as miraculous and magnificent as he is, if it was not for the Holy Spirit. Two thousand years later, he's just some dude that lived 2,000 years ago. Period. Like, okay, whatever, right? It is through the power of the Holy Spirit and the belief that we have through the power of the Holy Spirit that brings us to Christ, which and then brings us to the F who then brings us ultimately to the to the Father. All the same person, right? In a weird way, all somehow, some way, all the same person. And that yeah, the way that you said that, Pastor, it it kind of like changed it it gave me a different way of looking at the magnificent of Jesus. Yeah, but Jesus is magnificent in his own right, but it I wouldn't know who he is if it wasn't for the Holy Spirit. I would have no idea.

SPEAKER_02 19:53

Yeah, because um there was a historical Jesus. There is no doubt about that. There is lots of records, there is lots of testimony, and not just in scripture. And so we have this person, this human being, who was doing miraculous things because this human being was also fully divine. And there's that whole death and resurrection and ascension thing, which is jaw-dropping and changed lives forever. But I don't know that people would have been able to receive the testimony of the resurrection and the ascension without the Holy Spirit. So, yeah, I mean, but and that's not to say that Jesus wasn't fully divine, because, like you said, it's all the same. It is all God doing God things.

SPEAKER_01 20:39

Yep. It's interesting that Jesus lived for 33 years, did what he did. We have all the historical records about it. He is fully human, fully divine. Holy Spirit's been at this for 2,000 years. Oh, more than that. You know, oh well, yeah, sure. But I mean, why don't we see more written about the Holy Spirit? Why don't we talk more about the Holy Spirit? Because, I mean, like you said, Keith, I mean, that was a perfect sermon. You know, it it gives you the perspective of saying, hey, you know what? The work of the Holy Spirit is ongoing, and it's through the work of the Holy Spirit that we come to Jesus who brings us to God, the Father.

SPEAKER_00 21:17

And maybe that's the, like if you go forward then, go the other way, yeah, because the Holy Spirit lives within us, and and we are called to do the work, we are called to do that that work, right? To do God's will, you know, our reflection of that of that love is the that is the path. That literally is the is the next step of the path, of the journey that we talked about last week.

SPEAKER_02 21:47

And I think we talk about Jesus so much, like the second person of the Trinity, Jesus Christ, we talk about him so much because they're very concrete stories to grab onto. Oh, right. We can talk about someone who sat down and talked with somebody. Right. But there I was trying to find it real quick, but I'm not sure exactly where it is. But there's a verse somewhere in the Bible that says the spirit blows where it will, and you do not know where it begins, and you do not know where it ends, but you know, but you feel it and you experience it.

SPEAKER_01 22:17

Nicodemus.

SPEAKER_02 22:18

Is that what it is? Yeah, it's not. Nicodemus.

SPEAKER_01 22:19

Nicodemus, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 22:20

Not a chapter and verse kind of girl.

SPEAKER_01 22:23

Yeah, he talked about it, you know. And Jesus says, you know, the the the spirit blows as the wind.

SPEAKER_02 22:28

I thought it was John somewhere at least. But I and it's hard to talk about that. It's hard to talk about something you don't have concrete stories on.

SPEAKER_01 22:36

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 22:36

And but that all comes back to what we've been saying kind of throughout this whole podcast experience is that you cannot logic your way to belief. You have to experience it. We have all these records of Jesus as a human being. Um we have stories about his the miraculous things that he did, but that in and in and of itself is not enough for someone to believe. Because those are stories. That's those are logic, that's thinking. But when you experience the stories through the Holy Spirit, that's when you come into relationship. Because that's when it's more than just a brain thing, it becomes a heart thing. Yeah. So I want to toss out something. It's out of order. Okay. In Aramaic, which would have been the language of Jesus, but also the language of the people wandering the desert, and as Moses is receiving the Ten Commandments, right? The word for commandment can be related to the words for connection and alignment. So commandment is not just rules, but they are invitations to align with how God purposes us or what God's purpose for us. And so when we look then in here, if you love me, you will keep my commandments. If you love me, you will stay in connection with me, and you will stay in alignment with how I have taught you to be. You will stay in alignment with the way, the truth, and the life. Which I thought was a neat way to think through the word commandment. So it's not just you will do what I say, but you will identify within me.

SPEAKER_00 24:24

So I read that verse um 15 again using that new alignment language translation for the word commandment. So when you first read verse 15, it's it it sounds preachy. If you love me, you're gonna do what I say. But when you look at it this way, it's more of a if you're doing the things that I've that are in alignment with me, Jesus, this is Jesus talking, right? Then you love me. You're sh you know it you can almost push it backwards the other way. You can almost read it in reverse.

SPEAKER_02 25:02

I do think, and I I mean, I'm not speaking of not totally agreeing on the Greek, I don't know the Greek here, but when you hear that if you love me, you will keep my commandments, I feel like it's one of those um eventualities. Of it's not if, like, I'm not sure if you do or don't love me, it's because you love me, you will keep my commandments. Like this is the state, the status of your being right now. You love me, therefore you're gonna keep my commandments, you're gonna be in alignment with me, and you know, you will not be orphaned, the father will be with you forever. Um, so I think there's not as much of that testing in there that we sometimes assume there to be. Yeah. There was a lot to be said about this reading. There was a lot that we could not fit into this brief little podcast, but I hope this conversation invited you to explore the facets of faith that are offered to us in this text. And I encourage you to like, review, share this podcast with others so that they might be able to explore facets of faith alongside with us. If you would like to leave us a comment, you can click on the link in the show's description to send us a message, ask us a question, or to just comment and tell us your experience of this podcast. With that, let us say a word of prayer together. Almighty and ever-living God, you hold all things together in heaven and on earth. In your great mercy, receive the prayers of all your children and give to all the world the spirit of your truth and peace through Jesus Christ, our Savior and Lord, who lives and reigns with you and the Holy Spirit, one God, now and forever. Amen.