Speaker Coaching with Keynote Speaker Steve Fredlund: Episode 11

Finding a Call to Action That Feels Authentic for Keynote Speakers

On Mic Drop Mindset, Jenn coaches keynote speaker and bestselling author Steve Fredlund, a former actuary, on how to include a call to action without feeling like he’s “selling from the stage” or shifting the spotlight onto himself. 

Steve shares discomfort with QR codes, newsletters, and book pitches, partly driven by sensitivity to seeming arrogant or manipulative, and he wants audiences primarily to apply what they learned. 

Jenn helps him explore what he wants people to do, why a call to action matters, and the difference between success (getting booked) and validation (spinoff business and deeper impact). 

As they discuss options, Steve becomes most energized by hosting retreats as a congruent next step, and he commits to reflecting on that and not adding new offers unless he feels genuinely good about them.

About Steve:

Steve Fredlund is an award-winning keynote speaker, two-time TEDx presenter, and bestselling author of Do the Unright Thing. After more than 30 years as an actuary, executive, entrepreneur, and nonprofit founder, including leading humanitarian efforts in East Africa, Steve gained a unique perspective on leadership in uncertain conditions.

Today, Steve helps leaders keep moving forward through change and uncertainty. Through engaging stories, humor, and practical tools drawn from African safaris, leadership research, and high-pressure decision environments, he equips audiences to build engagement, make confident decisions with limited information, and lead effectively when the path isn’t clear.

Visit his website at https://stevefredlund.com/

00:00 Welcome and Guest Intro

00:39 The CTA Struggle on Stage

02:45 Why Selling Feels Icky

04:06 Defining the Real Outcome

05:26 Calls to Action and Conviction

06:31 Are the Resources Compelling

07:55 Audience Impact and Feedback

10:01 Validation Versus Success

11:19 Brainstorming the Next Step

12:02 Call To Action Gap

12:47 Retreats Spark Excitement

14:02 Fears And Pricing Doubts

15:37 Reframing The CTA

17:07 Inviting On Stage

19:31 Chasing Inner Knowing

20:17 Action Steps And Boundaries

22:35 Closing Reflections

Have a question or suggestion for a future episode topic? Email me jenn@jennspingo.com.

Ready to deliver mic drop moments in your next presentation? Schedule a call to learn more about coaching www.calendly.com/jennchat

Looking to book a speaker for your corporate or association event on topics including leadership and communication? View my programs at www.jennspingo.com

Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:00

Welcome to Mic Drop Mindset. Today's coaching session is truly that. It's just a free, open, relaxed coaching session. And so I'm very excited to welcome to the studio with us today, Steve Friendlin. Welcome, Steve.

SPEAKER_00 0:13

Thanks, Jen. Happy to be here.

SPEAKER_01 0:15

Steve and I have known each other for what five years, six years? Probably wrong.

SPEAKER_00 0:18

At least, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 0:19

Steve is a great guy. He's a keynote speaker. He's a best-selling author of Do the Unright Thing. He also used to be an actuary. I think you call yourself a recovery.

SPEAKER_00 0:28

I'm recovering actuary, even though I'm pretty sure nobody ever fully recovers from being an actuary, but I'm trying. As a speaker, I don't usually admit that I'm an actuary because people assume you can't speak. So I try to keep that under wraps a little bit.

SPEAKER_01 0:39

You said you wanted to coach on something specific. So let us know. What do you want to coach on today?

SPEAKER_00 0:43

Yeah, so I'm a keynote speaker primarily. I've always struggled with the whole call to action thing, right? Because I'm not a coach, I'm not a consultant. So I'm not really inviting people to take a next step with me in coaching and consulting. But I want them to take a next step. I want them to, you know, pick up the book or I want them to engage more. I want them to grab the resources that I make available. I want them to continue learning what I've taught them. But I struggle with that because then there's this piece of whenever I do that, it feels like I'm putting the spotlight on myself instead of them. I'm focused, you know, rather than the content, rather than what I really want them to take. Because you're kind of like pausing. No matter, you know, I've tried it at the end, I've tried it in the middle, tried it throughout, where it's like, hey, but then there's always this moment where it's like, hey, I'm gonna have a QR code and check me out, you know, join the newsletter. So I want to figure out how do I integrate that into the talk in such a way where it feels natural, feels like I'm bringing value to them versus putting the spotlight on myself, yet give them the opportunity to connect and learn and grow and that sort of thing. So the coaching is less about kind of like a stage presence, even though it could be part of that. It's maybe it's maybe I have the wrong call to action, maybe I'm doing it wrong, maybe it's just a natural part of what it is. Maybe I exclude it from my talk altogether and just have whoever's coming up after me pitch that kind of stuff or whatever, you know, because I'll have books available for sale usually, but I don't, I'm I don't like the whole, hey, I get my book available, you know. I'm an al signum for me and my personality. I've learned that pauses me in my tracks in the middle of the talk. Like I'm rushing through it because I just want to get past this crap and get back onto the real stuff. So, anyway, all of that stuff, I'm just trying to figure out how do I do that in a way that feels natural, that people aren't going always selling from stage, that doesn't pull people away from the message that I'm actually trying to deliver. So I think I think you get the gist.

SPEAKER_01 2:23

There's a lot coming up there for you, Steve.

SPEAKER_00 2:25

Yeah, it's that's an emotional thing because you know you get you spend so much energy and effort trying to create a talk and an experience for people to actually be transformed. And then you're like, oh, time out, sales pitch. Then back to it, back to our regularly scheduled program. And maybe it doesn't disrupt them as much as it disrupts me, but it does viscerally disrupt me.

SPEAKER_01 2:44

Interesting. Interesting. So this is important because you want to keep your presence strong when you're on stage. And I noticed some language you were using around that, like in the spotlight, you even changed your voice. Hey, buy my book. Hey, you even changed your persona when you were describing how that felt for you. So I was noticing that. What were you noticing in what you just described?

SPEAKER_00 3:02

Yeah, I'm not surprised. I'm I didn't recognize that, but I'm not surprised I did because I think I'm one of my sensitivities personally is for people that appear arrogant or self-serving. And that's my only issue. I'm working through it in therapy. I am hypersensitive that like the first moment somebody comes off to me is like, oh, okay, this is one of these guys or used car salesperson or whatever, I sort of shut down. So that's probably why I changed my voices because that's how it in my mind it sounds. Okay. Even though I'm delivering it the same way, hey, I just want you to know I do have additional resources. If you want to check me out, I got some more ways that I can come alongside you. Like, that's how I'm saying it. But inward, like I'm sounding like, hey, look at me, I got some stuff. That's what it sounds like for me inside. So that's probably why I communicated it in that way.

SPEAKER_01 3:41

Well, thank you for clarifying that because I think a lot of us have this feeling internally, whether we share it or not, is how do I switch from adding value? We've all heard the phrase adding value as speakers. We don't want to sell from the stage. It feels icky, it feels gross. We have to go into a different uh presence with ourselves, like even a different voice, a different way of standing, a different way of being. I don't know what it is, but it can be feel very uncomfortable. So I hear that discomfort coming up for you. Switching tacks a little bit. What do you want people to do after you're done speaking?

SPEAKER_00 4:10

What I really want for them to do is take what I heard and apply it.

SPEAKER_01 4:13

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 4:13

I mean, that's what I want. Like the rest of it, sure. I'd I want more people on newsletter because that's great, because then it's more opportunity to connect. I'd love more LinkedIn connections because that's a way that I can connect with people at a deeper level. Buy the book, that's a nice little revenue source. Like all those stuff are nice, but really I want them to just go and do like because my whole talk is around here's here's been my journey, here's what I learned along the way, here's some things that have helped me break through some of these struggles that we've had and how we keep moving forward in a world of constant change and all these things. I just want them to do it.

SPEAKER_01 4:41

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 4:42

Honestly. So, but I know I I should, right? I should have a call to action. I should have a next step. I should, should, should. I'm not trying to get them to be coach, you know, to coach with me or consult with me. I mean, ideally, if they loved it so much, then the great next step is for them to, hey, come to my organization and speak here, or I've got somebody that you should talk to. That's a great thing. But again, that makes it about me and about my business. And I want that to be a natural outpouring of what they received versus this is a game, and I'm trying to manipulate them to hire me for something else or to buy my book. So, I mean, I I know maybe it sounds cliche, but I really want them to be changed and to apply this. That's my goal. And I feel like anything else that I say along the lines of here's what else you should do, takes away from that.

SPEAKER_01 5:25

So that's an interesting thing. I I do want to highlight this a little bit for the listeners. So there are many opportunities when you're speaking to have a call to action, right? A lot of people come to me with this. They're like, Well, Jen, what is the right call to action? First of all, I can't tell you what the right call to action is. That's not why I'm here. What I can help you explore, which we've done a little bit so far, is what do you want people to do? And you shared with me just now what you want them to do something with the information you're sharing with them. So as you think about what you want your call to action to be, it's less important what it is than why it's important to share it. And when you're convicted and why you're sharing it, then it's easier to share it more frequently. And we all know that people don't just like pull out their phones and call us as soon as we say, hey, call me. You know, I do work with you. That's where I would do a different voice. Oh, that feels icky.

SPEAKER_00 6:12

Let me hear your other voice.

SPEAKER_01 6:13

Yeah. Call me. Call me, maybe, Carly Jepson. I think it's important for us to feel comfortable with what it is we're doing, no matter what that is on stage. So you've nailed it right away. Like you don't feel comfortable going into sales pitch mode, but you still have this desire of wanting people to do something with the information you have. What if you've been using as a call to action thus far?

SPEAKER_00 6:33

Yeah, and I mean, just you saying that makes me think, do I have the right calls to action then? Because it's, you know what I mean? That is the actual deliverable. So I've got a few things, and I've got I've got the book, I've got the newsletters. If I'm doing a talk on curiosity, here's a 30-day curiosity plan that you could incorporate into your leadership, that sort of thing. So I've got kind of those pieces, but I don't have like a thing, you know what I mean? Like that. Here's a here's a thing. My book is more of a memoir than it is an action guide to your future kind of thing. So maybe if I had something I really felt like if I encourage them to take that next step, it really would continue helping them push forward in the development. Yes. That would be so maybe I've answered my own question. They're fine. You know what I mean? They're resources, but they're not that compelling. If you like what you heard here today, this is gonna help you apply it.

SPEAKER_01 7:14

Okay. So I what I'm hearing you say is you've got things and you don't sound too excited about those things.

SPEAKER_00 7:20

Well, they're they're good, they're good. I mean, I'm not gonna put anything in that ultimate garbage, but they're they're things, and I just send people to a resource page and there's you know different options that they can select, but yeah, yeah, they're not really You're not excited about it, you're not like get anything, this is awesome. It is a it's a lead lead magnet slash call to action because I'm supposed to have them versus a coming out of the inside. This is something that I really think would help you.

SPEAKER_01 7:44

So, do you have clients who I mean, I know you're out there speaking, you're doing your thing, you're killing it. In fact, every time I look, you're traveling somewhere else. You are doing your thing. When audiences come back to you in those feedback forms and whatever, what are they sharing with you? What are they taking from it?

SPEAKER_00 8:02

Yeah, you're you're reading my mail, like this is what I needed to hear. I've been stuck. Um, I'll get emails months later. If hey, I got a tattoo. Be careful when you come to my talks because you might go get a tattoo or go skydiving. Yeah, I mean, just people that they got it. They just got it. They're like something clicked that what I talk about isn't something people haven't heard before, but it's packaged in a way that I think they go, now it makes sense to me. And so when I get the, you know, people after they're crying or they're just emotional or they're feeling it, it's um they just got it. And I know they're gonna go to go do something with it. Um, I don't know if that answers your question, but it does.

SPEAKER_01 8:35

So people have gotten something, they've taken something away from the many different places you've shared information with them. Is that enough for you?

SPEAKER_00 8:46

Hmm. Therapy all of a sudden it's turned into um yes, doctor. Um I am not a therapist, nor do I play one on the You're a speaker therapist. Um it is, yeah. I do want to keep the business building, I want to keep growing, I want to keep getting different audiences. So I think um especially if if the most the the greatest experiences I've had are when I feel like personally, afterwards, people are talking to me afterwards. I get the emails for weeks or months later from people that have been impacted in some way, and then I get referrals. And the referrals is great for building the business, but it's also a validation. You go talk at a church and you get all the people that come up after you and say, Hey, so good. Oh my god, so the voice is back. You know, yeah. So whenever you speak at a conference, there's always gonna be a few people that are gonna be saying, I really liked that, it was really good because they're just sweet people, honestly. I think I don't think you're giving yourself enough credit, Steve. That that's my own imposter syndrome. Um, but I think when you get referred or when you get a spin-off client, somebody that hires you because they heard you, to me, that's great for the business, but it's also a validation more than the pleasantries of you did well. So, yes, it's enough for somebody to feel like they're removed and to get emails later, but when you get the spin-off business, I think for me that's really the okay, this really did land.

SPEAKER_01 10:00

Okay, so I think what you're describing here, and correct me if I'm wrong, is the difference between validation and success as a speaker.

SPEAKER_00 10:09

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 10:09

When I say that, what stands out to you?

SPEAKER_00 10:11

Well, what it would have I know a lot of speakers who are successful um because they have they're amazing at marketing.

SPEAKER_01 10:19

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 10:19

They we've seen them mine. They're frankly, they're terrible on stage. I've seen them, uh, but they can get people to show up because they got their marketing engine built in such a way that they're doing cold outreach and they got the the tools, the collateral, the video that looks like a movie trailer, all that stuff, which is great. They can get hired, but then they don't get rehired. Yes. To me, success is getting the gig, right? I think validation is getting the spin-off business, getting people to say, How can I connect with you? You know, how else can you help me? And I think I want both. I'm not gonna lie, I want both because if I don't have success, then I'm gonna go back and get a regular job being an actuary, which I'm sick of math. I hate math. He just recovered from recovery, like I can't take a step back. But the validation is, I think, really what fuels me, honestly. He was like, Okay, we are making a difference, right? And I think as I get older, um, legacy and that sort of thing means more to me.

SPEAKER_01 11:10

Maybe the struggle here is in finding a call to action that combines that validation with that success.

SPEAKER_00 11:17

That's well put. I think so.

SPEAKER_01 11:18

Okay, what could that look like? I know you have great ideas.

SPEAKER_00 11:22

I I well, I have a lot of ideas. I don't know if they're great ideas. Um it's a good question. I guess what's the the question is maybe that's something I just need to ask the people that have that it's resonated with. Like, what would be a good next step for you? Is it a video? Is it a series of videos of encouragement? Is it a retreat? Is it a mastermind? Is it a note of encouragement? I know what I would want.

SPEAKER_01 11:40

What do you want, Steve? This is what we're looking at.

SPEAKER_00 11:42

Yeah, I mean, I would want probably the like a regular um yeah, just probably a regular communication that that's sort of encouraging on hey, keep on going. It's a combination of encouraging and practical.

SPEAKER_01 11:53

Do you currently have something that provides that platform?

SPEAKER_00 11:56

I think so. I mean, I got a monthly newsletter. Okay. Um, and so it's it's partially that. It's sort of like here's some here's some new ways to think about this. Here's how you get the right peeps in your Jeep on your journey that you're on, and that sort of thing that satisfies it to some degree. What's missing from that? Maybe nothing. Maybe my own perception. Uh enough.

SPEAKER_01 12:13

I love the honesty that you're sharing.

SPEAKER_00 12:15

Well, because I don't know, right? I mean, I don't I don't know how much can you do. Like, we're all busy, like, people aren't gonna want to be inundated with I think it's good, like that's a good maintaining sort of thing for the people that are in my my community, I guess. But it doesn't feel like it has that transformation thing like I want to say, hey, if you want the next step, here's what you do. Here's what we can do for you to really help you dig into this stuff.

SPEAKER_01 12:35

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 12:36

Maybe it's a video course, maybe it's a retreat, maybe it's a book.

SPEAKER_01 12:38

So you've listed several things here, and I get the sense that none of those things are gonna satisfy what you're looking for. Is that is that me being totally off base here?

SPEAKER_00 12:48

I think the one thing that I really would love to do, honestly, is retreats. Uh I would love to facilitate retreats. Um, because I think the stuff that I talk about, whether it's for leaders or whether it's for all audiences, is really about self-reflection in a lot of ways.

SPEAKER_01 13:01

Yes.

SPEAKER_00 13:02

Doing something with the information. Yeah, how do we really clarify what it is we want in life or in leadership? What how do we surround ourselves with the right people? How do we have the courage to do the unright thing? That's what people are really like, okay. Now you got me all hyped up here. I'm ready to go. You know, retreats might be a fun way to do it. I think that would be a fun way to do it. That feels different than like a the lead magnet next step. Here's the white paper kind of thing, because that's a whole nother thing, right? That's a whole nother business model.

SPEAKER_01 13:27

Interesting. I saw your face change. I saw like the excitement of maybe it's a retreat. You know, I would really like a retreat. And I think we should pay attention to our inner knowing. And that's why coaching is something I love doing because you have your inner knowing and you've shared a lot of good ideas, but it wasn't landing for you. And so sometimes we get in our heads about like, I would really like to do this, like in my heart of hearts, but this comes up and it doesn't look like this, and it could be like this, and I have to do all these other things, and I'm too busy at excuses. Come up for that.

SPEAKER_00 14:02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 14:02

If there were no excuses, Steve, would you do the retreat?

SPEAKER_00 14:06

I would, I would. And I think the excuse is less about I'm busy, I work all the time, I just can't not work. I think the bigger piece is will people actually show up for it, even though I'm sure they would. I think that's the the either the risk of putting yourself out there or who am I to charge X dollars for retreats. I think the model of it is beautiful. If I were to do twice a year or something and say, hey, just you know, we've got a retreat coming up in June, whatever. I don't really know what the big hang up is. Is I'm not afraid of planning it. People who know me know my style, it's gonna be, you know, kind of low-key. Get together, hang out, talk about life.

SPEAKER_01 14:40

Um that seems important for you.

SPEAKER_00 14:41

It is, it has to be for me. That's how I roll. Is that a call to action?

SPEAKER_01 14:45

That's a great question. Is that a good call to action?

SPEAKER_00 14:48

I'm asking you, coach.

SPEAKER_01 14:50

I think you know what you think about that.

SPEAKER_00 14:53

You know, I fight the whole should thing all the time. Like that's sort of my whole journey has been overcoming what I'm supposed to do and being people pleaser and all that sort of stuff, too. And I don't see other speakers offering retreats, so I immediately go to well, it's not a call to action. A call to action is a book, or it's a it's an ebook, or it's a newsletter, or it's a series of videos, or those are calls to action by the definition. Maybe my unright thing is offering a retreat. I don't know.

SPEAKER_01 15:17

Maybe it is. Yeah, what if it were?

SPEAKER_00 15:21

If it worked, I would be just absolutely delighted. It would give me so much life.

SPEAKER_01 15:25

Would a retreat allow people to take the information you're sharing on a stage and apply it?

SPEAKER_00 15:29

Yeah, we could I mean be partially facilitated, part of it's self-reflection time. Like for sure, I've thought about that because actually I do some workshops too. People love it.

SPEAKER_01 15:37

So, what would be a call to action? So I just want to kind of riff a little bit on what is the right call to action? Because I think you're not the only one struggling with this. I have struggled with this personally. It doesn't matter what that call to action is. You know what you want people to do. You want them to do something with your information. What is the best format for that? Is a question that only you can answer, Steve.

SPEAKER_00 15:55

And that's coming up for you around that. I think you're right. Because I mean, what's coming up for me around that is um I have followed a lot of other people's calls to action when I've been inspired. And then I get the download and I don't read it. Or and then I get signed up for the newsletter and I get 16 different emails. Like, what are we doing? I just want the resource. Right. There's an icky stigma for me around calls to action. I kind of want the resource, but as soon as I do that, I'm gonna be in some sales funnel somewhere. Um, I mean, you don't want to be the annoying person at the other end of sales. I don't want to do to people what I hate spamming you with everything. It's it's intriguing. So I don't know if it's right or not. It's different than what I've heard, at least in my realm of speakers.

SPEAKER_01 16:34

And I think also it's important to point out that we often, when we're newer to speaking or we're just getting started, or we just set up our business side of it. There's many different ways to do speaking. There's many different ways to build the business side of your speaking. Steve does not consult, does not coach, I coach, that works for me. It may not work for you. I don't have a book. Steve has a book, he might sign books at the end of his events. That might work for you. And I think it's important to identify that there's no right way.

SPEAKER_00 17:00

Yeah, I know that. I tell people that all the time, right? There's no right way to do it. But for me, this call to action seems to be a little bit of a hang up for me.

SPEAKER_01 17:06

I see. And I think is there some element of that call to action being sticky for you because not just the planning and and what it looks like, but how you introduced it on stage?

SPEAKER_00 17:15

Yeah, I think that's part of it then too. Like there's the actual call to action, which we've talked about, but then there's the that's the hang up, right? What would I say on stage to say, hey, just you know, I'm having a retreat in June. There's my voice change again, right? But it was the same voice. It's a little different voice. You may hear that because I knew it was gonna be coming. So I took, hey, I got the retreat coming in June. I would want them to come to the retreat, but I want that 60 minutes or whatever time I have to be about their experience and not change it into something else. And I know you could do it at the end, you could do it the middle. It sort of just changes the whole dynamic on stage.

SPEAKER_01 17:45

It can, yeah, depending on how you do it. But also, if you don't feel good about it, it's gonna change how you show up.

SPEAKER_00 17:50

And that's what's happening more than I think I don't think anybody's upset that there's a 15-second hey, just you know, you I got a QR code if you want to connect. But for me, it changes yeah.

SPEAKER_01 17:59

Yeah. So as you're imagining what the stages could look like in your future, and I know you've got engagements lined up. Like visualize that. If you were on stage and you were introducing, hey folks, you can even role-play this if you'd like to stay. But you're on stage, it comes time for that call to action. What might it sound like if you were to offer a retreat? And you can you can speak it out if you'd like.

SPEAKER_00 18:24

I don't it feels less like, hey, I got a retreat coming up, and it feels more like interjecting some of that. You know, I mean it might be more like that, where it's a conversation around, you know, in the retreat setting, what an example of how this played out for for somebody or a leader. We're all chasing this dream, we all want to be on the$30,000 keynote stage, and so people say, Hey, well, come for us for the weekend for$25,000 and we'll get you there. But like I I take that time very seriously, and I don't want to manipulate people into taking a next step that they're not ready to take. Maybe that's my own hang up. Maybe that's I've got another person that I've talked to who said, You just gotta get out of your own way. Like, maybe I do.

SPEAKER_01 19:02

Has anyone ever come to you and said, You promised me this and you did not deliver? Has that ever happened to you? What are the chances that it would happen on stage?

SPEAKER_00 19:10

I don't know. I don't know. I think because I'm so hyper afraid of doing that, I probably go too far the other direction. I'm so afraid of being that myself that I err on this side of probably false humility because I don't want to appear arrogant. You know what I mean? Like probably I'm so afraid to invite them into taking a next step because it sounds like I'm manipulating them. My therapist has done some good work with me, huh?

SPEAKER_01 19:31

Let's just acknowledge what's here. You're very self-aware. Yeah, you've clearly done the work of recognizing what's coming up for you and even to some extent why it's coming up for you. And this is a little beyond the scope of coaching. What I would encourage you to do, if if we may, is to go back to that feeling of when you said maybe a retreat, Jen. Maybe a retreat. Like your entire demeanor changed. Can you put yourself in that feeling of yeah, what about that retreat? And chase that instead of chase the fears, chase the what if it can be here, it can be outside of here, it can be with a journal, whatever feels comfortable for you. What would that feel like for you? Do you think? Like, would you take time to do that and be like, what if this retreat?

SPEAKER_00 20:14

Oh yeah, I'll reflect on that for sure.

SPEAKER_01 20:16

Okay. Okay. What do you see as a helpful action step for you around your call to action? We've talked through a lot of things. I want to know what really sparked for you.

SPEAKER_00 20:23

I did not expect to go down this road. I think just through the conversation, that it's it's the both and, right? It's what's the call to action actual thing? How do we deliver it on stage? And how can we be congruent in both of those things, right? Exactly. Because I think my hang-up is both of those things. I think so. I think if the retreat is the answer, what I want to do is reflect on that. Like, what would it be like if I had a semi-annual retreat or an annual retreat or whatever? How would I actually feel about that? Yeah, logistics aside. And then how would I feel about inviting people to that? And could that feel like a real win on stage? That's my action step. It's just to think about those things.

SPEAKER_01 20:57

Love it. Yeah. I love that you're willing to pursue that. And I would say out there as well, and this is something that I tell other coaching clients as well, is you have to feel right with whatever it is you do. And so I have some clients who speak about very traumatic things on stage. And that's their right if that's what they want to share on stage. But some of us are out there sharing things that we haven't processed through properly on our own. And sometimes things get emotional, and sometimes that's okay. And that's part of the experience you're delivering on stage. But we also have to feel okay with what we're doing. Yeah. Beginning to end. You know this more than anyone else. And I think that's why you've been struggling with this piece of it here. So whatever you decide to do on stage, whatever that call to action is, feel within yourself that it adds value.

SPEAKER_00 21:38

Right.

SPEAKER_01 21:38

And again, that's something that only you personally can decide. I'm not here to push one thing or another. There's no shoulds. There's no shoulds here. But I hear you getting a different energy, a different excitement around a retreat. And I appreciate your action steps of thinking it through and kind of visualizing, processing whatever format feels good to you. Forward. What are you not gonna do when it comes to your call to action?

SPEAKER_00 22:06

Oh like what am I not gonna do that I'm currently doing or just in general?

SPEAKER_01 22:10

Just in general.

SPEAKER_00 22:12

Um I'm not going to add something new to my potential call to action unless I feel really good about it. I'm not just gonna start creating a new, you know, new sequence of things just because I'm supposed to. I love it. Um I don't know.

SPEAKER_01 22:30

And there are no wrong answers here. So I I appreciate you chasing that wherever it went. Thank you so much for being on camera with me today talking about your call to action. I hope you've received something that you can move forward with. If you, Steve yourself felt like you received value from it, I would appreciate any thoughts you would have to share around that. But I would also say that it's not how long you spend coaching, it's someone walking you through the process of it. So there are certain things we do as coaches to walk people through what's coming up. And some of that maybe bumps up against therapy, and that's okay.

SPEAKER_00 23:00

I think part of it was working with you because I know you're a speaker and I know you've you coach other people too. That's a big benefit, right? Because I can talk to my therapist, she's not gonna understand the speaking industry. I can talk to my family, they have no clue what I'm doing. I think to have to process some of the stuff with somebody who gets the bigger context of what it means to be a speaker was was super helpful.

SPEAKER_01 23:18

Oh, I appreciate that. Does now feel like a good time to close our session today?

SPEAKER_00 23:23

Yes, our hours up, yes.

SPEAKER_01 23:25

Well, thank you so much. I'm happy to share Steve's information in the comments below this podcast episode. So definitely check him out, stevefredlin.com, and hire him for your next event. Maybe you can even hear the first time he does his new call to action. Thank you for being here, Steve.

SPEAKER_00 23:38

Thanks, Jen.