Presentation Skills Coaching with Michelle Von Ruden: Episode 19

Faith Based versus Secular Speaking: How to Choose your Best Audience

Host Jennspingo coaches speaker and burnout strategist Michelle Von Ruden on how to navigate speaking in both Christian and secular contexts without limiting opportunities. 

Michelle worries meeting planners may avoid her if they see faith-based content, especially as she rebrands her website and grows her faith-focused podcast, Why I Believe. 

They clarify that her core burnout talk stays the same while stories and references shift by audience, and note she has no evidence yet of lost bookings—only advice from experienced speakers. 

Jenn highlights that faith is central to Michelle’s values and identity and can’t be fully separated, encourages evaluating advice through values and outcomes, and discusses choosing audiences intentionally due to limited capacity. 

Michelle decides she wants a 50/50 mix of faith-based and secular engagements, prioritizes authenticity, and shares her themed weekly schedule for managing multiple business demands.

About Michelle:

Michelle Von Ruden is a speaker, burnout strategist, and host of the Why I Believe podcast. She helps high-achievers overcome burnout, perfectionism, and overwhelm so they can lead with greater resilience, clarity, and purpose.

Author of “3 Ways to Develop Your Resilience”, Michelle’s insights have been featured in Volume One – Women in Leadership 2024, the Maxwell Leadership Blog, and podcasts such as LeaderPass and Coachful Coaching. She holds a BS in Finance from Capella University and an MBA in Management & Leadership from the University of Kansas.

With more than 20 years of leadership, operations, finance, and entrepreneurial experience, Michelle combines practical strategies with real-world wisdom. She is a certified Maxwell Leadership Coach, Speaker, and Trainer, a DISC Behavioral Analysis Consultant, and a respected leader within Maxwell Leadership, Polka Dot Powerhouse, and One Woman.

Michelle has inspired audiences across the U.S. and Canada through keynotes, workshops, and leadership development programs.

Connect with Michelle:

https://www.linkedin.com/in/michellervonruden/ 

https://vonrudencc.com/speaking

00:00 Welcome and Introductions

00:26 The Faith and Speaking Dilemma

03:14 Customizing Stories for Audiences

04:36 Fear of Meeting Planner Pushback

05:40 Website and Branding Decisions

09:02 Filtering Advice Through Values

11:49 Faith as Core Identity

13:23 MVR Rebrand and Future Site Plan

15:03 Can You Mix Both Worlds

15:36 Defining Proof Points

16:36 Who You Serve Most

19:24 Choosing Faith or Secular

20:05 Owning Your Identity

21:39 Unmasking and Cancer Story

23:52 Money Values and Mix

25:46 How Top Speakers Scale

27:34 Weekly Focus System

28:16 Mic Drop and Connect

Have a question or suggestion for a future episode topic? Email me jenn@jennspingo.com.

Ready to deliver mic drop moments in your next presentation? Schedule a call to learn more about coaching www.calendly.com/jennchat

Looking to book a speaker for your corporate or association event on topics including leadership and communication? View my programs at www.jennspingo.com

Transcript

Welcome and Introductions

SPEAKER_01 0:00

Welcome to this episode of Speaker Coaching on Mic Drop Mindset. My name is Jen, also Jen SpinGo if you're looking for me online. And today in the studio, I'm welcoming Michelle von Ruden. Welcome. Hi, thanks for having me. So, Michelle, you told me that you wanted to coach on something and you weren't quite sure specifically what you wanted to coach on today. By the way, these are new for me. I don't know what we're talking about today. So help tell me and our audience what are we coaching on today?

The Faith and Speaking Dilemma

SPEAKER_00 0:26

Okay, so just to give you a little bit of background, I know you know me, but for those who are listening, so I entered the business of speaking about two years ago, and I came into it to mainly be a coach and to speak to get more clients. Tables have turned. So I now enjoy and love speaking. And this year I stepped out a little bit more in my faith. I started a podcast. I talk about my faith openly. And now, as I am transitioning into what the new normal is for me, I'm trying to understand how do I incorporate those or how do I keep them separate? And let me make that a little bit more clear. So I have been told by numerous people that if I say that, oh, I speak in the Christian segment world, if I speak in the Christian world, then no one's gonna hire me in the secular world, and vice versa. But I don't think that's true. And what I'm trying to figure out is how do I navigate that? And you've been in the business longer than I have, right? So how do I navigate that? Because you hear you can't do it and you can't have your cake and eat it too, but come on, guys, I want my cake and I want to eat it too. Sounds delicious. It does, right? So why can't I be fully authentically me and still get the same message across? Because the difference is in one situation I say it one way, and in another situation I say it the same way. It's the same message.

SPEAKER_01 1:52

Okay. Just to clarify, because you know, again, I know something of you, I know about your podcast, why I believe, check it out. But what I'm curious about is is it the same talk?

SPEAKER_00 2:04

Yeah. So I talk about burnout, and burnout is real in both worlds. And so that's really I'm a burnout strategist, and that's what I talk about. The thing that I'm running into is people like, well, if you start posting about you spoke here and there, then you're not gonna get these leads. And then if you do this, you're not gonna get that. And it's a lot of blocking, and I don't really like that so much.

SPEAKER_01 2:22

I'm curious who you're talking to as well. These seem like a lot of naysayers. Are they people who are in either one of the secular or the Christian world? Yes. So they're speakers of the secular and Christian world who are giving you this advice. Well-meaning advice.

SPEAKER_00 2:32

Well-meaning advice that are that are really well known in the world. Okay. It's not like I'm talking to another first year, second year, third year speaker. I'm talking to somebody who has CSP, CPAEs, you know, the real status.

SPEAKER_01 2:46

Okay. So the fear here is that if you hung your shingle in either world, that would exclude you from the other one.

SPEAKER_00 2:53

Yeah. And the reason why it's really coming to light is I'm gonna start working on a new website because right now I just have my coaching and consulting, and I'm really trying to decipher do I, how do I do that? And how do I put it together in a way that makes sense and that people feel included? Okay. Does that make sense?

SPEAKER_01 3:13

I think so.

Customizing Stories for Audiences

SPEAKER_01 3:14

The thing I'm a little bit struggling with is if the talk is the same, regardless of which audience you're delivering it to, what is different about the talk?

SPEAKER_00 3:22

Well, in one talk, I would be throwing in Bible verses and examples from the Bible and stories from the Bible to help really take home the points. Okay. Whereas in the secular world, I'm going to be talking about my personal experiences and experiences of people that have come to me and talked to me about their experiences and sharing those stories. So really the stories are the differentiator.

SPEAKER_01 3:43

Okay, so you'll swap out the stories, which is something that I usually recommend people do as they're customizing their talk with whatever audience they're in front of. Obviously, you can't talk about you know Bible verses in front of people who aren't Christian. Right. Um, so that would make total sense. Is the concern that people in perhaps if you speak at a church, they might be like, oh, we heard you speak at this other place before and you didn't have the same talk. Is that a concern as well?

SPEAKER_00 4:07

No, it's just really the flip side of that, right? Oh, okay. The secular world. So, oh, okay, we saw you, you had a post about you spoke at a Christian conference. Okay, well, we can't have you because you might try to spit it all over us, right? And that's really not what's gonna happen because I'm a professional, right? But how do I do that and navigate that so that that way they understand that?

SPEAKER_01 4:27

It sounds like there's some things about identity coming up here.

SPEAKER_00 4:31

Not for me, but yeah, identity is actually one of the things I talk about in the whole burnout strategy.

Fear of Meeting Planner Pushback

SPEAKER_01 4:36

So, what about someone who's non-Christian would feel threatened by you dropping a Bible verse? Do you feel?

SPEAKER_00 4:41

I don't think they would. I think it's the meeting planners who were fearful of the unknown. I think that's really what it comes down to because they have a stack of people that they can go through that might be problematic, gone, right? And that's where I'm trying to, how do I get over that hump? How do they I'm how do I make it so people know that I'm not problematic?

SPEAKER_01 4:59

Hmm. Do you have some sense of previous engagements that you haven't received specifically because of this?

SPEAKER_00 5:06

Not yet.

unknown 5:06

No.

SPEAKER_01 5:07

Okay, so you don't have any evidence necessarily pointing to this. Um, so right now it's kind of a fear, it's kind of a concern. No evidence so far for that. Correct. So not that I'm aware of anyway, right?

SPEAKER_00 5:17

Because you don't always get all the feedback.

SPEAKER_01 5:19

This is true. This is true. You can ask, but if they don't respond or if they say something different, we have no idea what actually is true. Right. Um, it's the awesome world we live in these days. Supposing you put yourself out there as just a speaker, you don't clarify that you're Christian, secular, nothing. You're just a speaker on burnout and resilience. What about that?

SPEAKER_00 5:38

That's what I'm doing currently.

Website and Branding Decisions

SPEAKER_00 5:40

Okay. But I think as the podcast grows, and I'm actually doing a podcast live at a Christian music festival and a couple months. So I think as that grows, it's gonna be more problematic. I'm just trying to solve the problem before I think it becomes a problem. Especially when I'm thinking about how I'm doing the website and how, because as you know, websites are not cheap. We're putting our money there, we're getting people, we're sending people there, we want to make sure it's right. And it's not gonna be perfect. And I understand that because perfectionism is a lie. However, I want it to be as good as it can be. How will you know whether it's a problem?

SPEAKER_01 6:15

An actual problem with evidence where you're being declined when someone tells me, when I actually get someone to tell me. Okay, okay. So, what would make you feel more secure about what you need to put on your website?

SPEAKER_00 6:29

That's a great question. You know, and I don't know. So I had the opportunity to be in a room with a Hall of Famer uh a few about a month ago when I asked them because at the end of his talk, he says, God bless. And I was like, How do you work with that? How do you navigate that? And I didn't really get a full answer. And I guess I would really like a full answer from somebody who's navigated that world and how they've done it and the cause and effect. Because I'm not worried about losing clients who are like, you know, that's really not my style, that's not my life. Cool, that's great. I'm happy to know that. I'm here if you need me for anything else, right? My hurdle is getting past the meeting planners who are like, oh, but maybe, you know, and creating that fear that's not necessarily there.

SPEAKER_01 7:19

Why would the meeting planner have that fear? So as I'm thinking through the application process, you're submitting a proposal and RFP, or maybe you're just word of mouth referral and you're saying this is what I talk about. What in that pitch would indicate that you might be a red flag for them?

SPEAKER_00 7:33

When they go to the website and see the, you know, the speaker page, and then on the other side would be the um podcast, or you know, if I speak at a Christian thing, it's gonna be on the website. So I think it's when they see that. I see.

SPEAKER_01 7:48

Who is your best client that you know of so far? High achievers. Who is your best audience fit?

SPEAKER_00 7:56

Women.

SPEAKER_01 7:57

So far, it's been women across the board, not just Christian women, high achieving women, high achieving women, okay. Regardless of faith, correct education, age, all of it. Yes. Okay. So why would you be concerned that something unique to your identity, your faith, would result in you getting no? What if it results in you getting yes?

SPEAKER_00 8:18

No. That's a good point.

SPEAKER_01 8:23

At the end of the day, people hire you for the way you deliver your content. What's coming up for you around that?

SPEAKER_00 8:33

Uh part of it is I started to separate things. I created like LinkedIn has three pages now, right? Facebook has three pages now, Instagram has two. I'm like, I feel like it's just madness. But when I separated the LinkedIn, somebody's like, oh, that was a really good idea, Michelle. So they kind of validated my thought process there, right? And nobody's like, oh, why'd you do that? Why'd you make yourself more work, Michelle? They didn't say that. They said that was a good idea.

Filtering Advice Through Values

SPEAKER_00 9:02

Mmm. You seem to gather a lot of information from others. I'm a learner, and so I take in a lot of information. And so then I process that.

SPEAKER_01 9:14

What does your process look like? So, for example, if you believe something to be true, you're talking to someone, they tell you something that's against what you believe to be true. How do you process through that? Or what do you pay attention to?

SPEAKER_00 9:23

Like, like I start with my values. What are my values? Right? Faith, health, family, wealth. In that order, nonstop, right? It's non-negotiable. Um, and so I go to that. And then the question is, okay, well, who are they to me? Okay, right? Why does their opinion matter? And if I don't really know them, are they more successful in a certain area that I'm trying to become successful in? Okay. So, like if Joe Schmoe off the street was like, I don't know about that, Michelle, I'd be like, cool, go back to do what you're doing, right? Because I don't, their opinion means nothing. But when it's somebody who's of a higher stature in the speaking world, it does carry weight. Okay.

SPEAKER_01 10:02

Okay. So you're looking to the expert advice. Right. And regardless of what their personal belief system might be, because they so I heard this before, um, and I thought it was brilliant because it's true. There was a person who I was listening to, a speaker coach, who was talking about presentation skills, and she was coaching somebody, and she said, It doesn't matter what I think about your presentation because everyone will have a different opinion on it. And that's true, whether you're a speaker coach or not, everyone has a different opinion, perspective, belief, whatever. So, like what I might tell someone as a speaker coach would be totally different from another person, and both are valid, but not necessarily applicable to specific situations. So, as you are looking for expert advice from someone who you believe is in a different place than you are or where you'd like to be, how do you filter that information against what you're hoping to do?

SPEAKER_00 10:50

It really comes down again, like, where do they fit in with my values? Where do they fit in with like their stature? Do I know their work? Is it validated? Right. So I kind of try to validate before I just take it all in. I mean, I take it all in, but then I validate and then I I heard this great saying at influence last year, and I can't remember the lady that said it, but she said, eat the fish and leave the bones. Interesting.

unknown 11:13

Right?

SPEAKER_00 11:14

So take what you need and then leave the rest. And so I really try to do that. I like that phrase.

SPEAKER_01 11:19

I might steal it.

SPEAKER_00 11:20

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 11:21

Borrow it, adopt it. Sorry.

SPEAKER_00 11:22

I will figure out who said it, and I'll let you know so we can give her so we can give her proper credit. Yes. Um, but I think that's really where it's at for me. But I just, you know, when you're spending that kind of money to build a website and you're spending all this time and energy, and I've invested a lot of money into my world and my business, and even before the business, and to just investing in myself. Um I just want to do a good job. It doesn't have to be perfect, it won't be perfect, but I want it to work.

Faith as Core Identity

SPEAKER_01 11:49

Well, you mentioned a couple of things, and I just want to reflect back on something I heard you say. Your values, the top of your values is faith. Correct. So is it possible for you to show up on stage without having faith involved in some way, shape, or form?

SPEAKER_00 12:02

Well, no, it's always there. Okay. I carry it with me.

SPEAKER_01 12:04

So, right. Yeah. So you can't like separate that from yourself. It's not something you could just silo and be like, I'm gonna put this over here right now. Oh, no, absolutely not. That's a unique part of who you are and how you show up as a speaker. Right. So trying to separate that from how you show up on stage is impossible. You can do it physically online if you need to. There's this site for these people, which is complicated. And so that's another thing. That's another thing. Capacity. Oh. As a solopreneur, as a speaker, as someone who's got multiple things going on in your life, what can you manage from a capacity standpoint? Can you manage two websites, two social medias for everything? Or is that even possible?

SPEAKER_00 12:41

Well, so funny that you asked the burnout strategist about this, right? I've actually found it easier now that I've separated them. Okay. Because uh Rory Vaden says diluted focus is diluted results. And so when I'm on this page, I am focused, like this is the message I'm sending out, this is what I'm doing, right? And then the next person goes to the next site or the next social media page, I'm like, oh, this is focused on my coaching and consulting. Okay, I'm sending out messages about this. So it's actually made it easier.

SPEAKER_01 13:07

So from a capacity standpoint, despite having duplication of efforts, it's easier for you. Yes. It's easier for you. Okay, so that problem is not a problem, right? So what is the core problem here?

MVR Rebrand and Future Site Plan

SPEAKER_00 13:23

Because what I'm doing, so what I'm doing is I'm gonna start rebranding everything under M VR, which stands for Michelle von Ruden, also most valuable resource. Oh, cool. Yeah. And so I have the website, Michelle von Ruden.com. It's not out right. Coming soon. Coming soon. Um, but the why I believe is already listed as why I believe at michelle vonruden.com, this email address. And um, so when I start doing the speaking stuff, I'm gonna have it under that same umbrella. And then I'll have anything that's speaking related. So the coaching or so the speaking and the podcast will be under that umbrella, and then the coaching and consulting will be a separate umbrella because they are in a sense two different things.

SPEAKER_01 13:59

So if I wanted to hire you as a speaker, where do I go?

SPEAKER_00 14:02

Right now, future state. Future state, uh, Michelle Vonerdon.com. Okay, and what would I see there? You'll see my speaking website, a page for meeting planners. Okay. And ideally the podcast. Okay.

SPEAKER_01 14:16

So if I'm a faith-based person and I go to your current website as is, and I go to your speaking page for meeting planners, what would I see there?

SPEAKER_00 14:24

There's nothing face-to-face on there.

SPEAKER_01 14:26

Okay. Yeah. So would that be an exclusionary thing, do you think, for someone from a faith-based perspective?

SPEAKER_00 14:34

Potentially, maybe.

SPEAKER_01 14:36

But you're more concerned about the other way. The other way, yeah. Okay, so in future state, you're hoping to put everything speaking on your MVR website. And all of your language will be faith-based. No.

SPEAKER_00 14:50

Oh. Okay. So you're still doing the both and so on the main page, it's gonna be all my speaking. So whether that's Christian-based or secular, it's on that page. Okay. And then the podcast and the meeting planner.

SPEAKER_01 15:02

Okay.

Can You Mix Both Worlds

SPEAKER_01 15:03

So it sounds like you can have it all and eat your cake too.

SPEAKER_00 15:06

Can we though? That's that's my question is can I put those all on the same page and not be discriminated against by meeting planners?

SPEAKER_01 15:15

The future will tell. I mean, I won't pretend that I can predict the future. Come on. And the fear is there, but you don't have any evidence to show that's true. Yes. You've heard some things from some people on the street, word on the street. Yeah, you can believe that. You can say it's not part of what matters to me at this moment, you know. So, how strong would that be

Defining Proof Points

SPEAKER_01 15:36

for you? So, for example, 2027, early 2027, new website, everything's out there, people are reaching out to you. What kind of evidence would prove that was not the right move?

SPEAKER_00 15:52

Not continuing to get uh clients that aren't in the Christian world. So, because at the end of the day, what I really want to do is help people overcome burnout and take back their life. And it doesn't matter if you're Christian or not, right? I can still help you. If you're sitting in an audience with a mixed audience, I can help you, right? I beat burnout in the biggest possible way. And I can help others do that. And that's really at the end of the day what I want to do. And I just don't want anyone to feel excluded. Does that make sense? It does make sense. Okay. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 16:28

So at the end of the day, you help people with burnout. Yeah. You can do that regardless of what kind of concepts you have within your talk.

Who You Serve Most

SPEAKER_01 16:36

Correct. Who most struggles with burnout? Secular or Christian? Both. Who's who would you most would you rather work with? Let's be real. Who do you want to work with?

SPEAKER_00 16:47

I never thought about that.

SPEAKER_01 16:49

Because I really scouted her.

SPEAKER_00 16:56

I really haven't thought about that because really I work with high achieving women who are struggling with every day getting their stuff done, trying to figure out like what they're doing, how they're even making it from day to day. You know, I've sat down with clients recently and I'm like, hey, how are you doing today? And this is before they're even a client. We're just having coffee, and they start crying when I ask them, How are you doing today? Okay, that's a problem. I would say so. Right. And so you're gonna ask me how I'm doing, and I'm not crying. I can have 5,000 things going on, and as we discovered, I do, but I'm not crying about it. I'm like, oh, it's actually got me more focused, right? I'm really in tune with where I'm at, and I can help people get there. And that's really what I want to do, whether you're selling an audience, whether you're a coaching client, it doesn't matter how, or you're even listening to the podcast, right? I got you. And so I've never thought about it in that way. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 17:49

And I think this is important because as speakers, we tend to say, I will speak to any audience that will have me, will bring me in, will pay me my fee, all the things, whatever the minimum requirements are for you and your business. Ultimately, though, if you had to choose just one, what would you lean towards? Because we can do everything, just not all at once.

SPEAKER_00 18:11

Yeah. You have me speechless. That doesn't happen very often. What I want to say is high achieving entrepreneurs is what I want to say. Um that's what I want to say.

SPEAKER_01 18:31

High achieving entrepreneurs. Yes. Regardless of background. Yeah.

unknown 18:35

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 18:36

Another thing that I think is important to highlight is when you have a signature speech as you do, you can deliver that signature speech to any audience. And when you have the right techniques to customize that to that audience, it doesn't matter who's in that audience. You will do your homework, you will be prepared, you will deliver an amazing experience, and you can have more than one audience. However, as you're focusing on your business model and who you most want to be in front of, you only have so many days in the year. You can only travel so many times. If you say yes to one, you're saying no to the other one. So as you hear that, what comes forward for you? What is more important to you? Rephrase your question. I'll rephrase it in a different way.

Choosing Faith or Secular

SPEAKER_01 19:24

Tomorrow you get offered two speaking engagements at your full fee. One is secular, one is Christian. Conveniently located, not allowed to travel, they cover all their travel, whatever. Or it's in a beautiful location, they cover your travel. Same fee. They say we want you, we need you. Which one are you accepting?

SPEAKER_00 19:44

Faith. Okay. Why? Well, it's my core values. Right. Part of me when what what I really wanted to say was, well, can I talk about God at the other one? Because then we might have to go into the other place.

SPEAKER_01 20:01

Interesting. Do you want to provide more color around that?

SPEAKER_00 20:04

Well,

Owning Your Identity

SPEAKER_00 20:05

you know, so in my talk, and this part this part is the one that doesn't change. So I talk about identity, and I say there's a line in there that says, um, you have to understand your identity, you have to know your true identity. And for me, that's being a child of God. For you, that may be different. And so it doesn't matter what audience, that line doesn't leave because it's true. I can't change that. Right. And so then we get into whole like, you gotta, you know, water your tree and take care of yourself and feed yourself, and um, because that'll help you get over your identity issues with achievement titles.

SPEAKER_01 20:39

So you know what came forward for me when you were talking? I know it's helpful for you to have one place for this, one place for that, and it allows you to focus. Do you sometimes feel like that carries over into your personal life? Like I'm gonna keep this over here and I'm gonna keep this over here, and different parts of me are gonna show up in those places. No, okay. I'm just curious because sometimes there are parallels.

SPEAKER_00 21:05

Yeah, no, no. I mean, the only time I do that is when I shut my office door, I'm done with work. Because you know, my office is in my house, right? So I close my office and then okay, work's over. Now it's family time, right? So that's that's the indicator for shutting the door. Okay. But that's where that's at. Okay. Yeah. Okay.

SPEAKER_01 21:20

I was just curious because sometimes, and this happens with other clients where they struggle with pieces of their own identity. Maybe there's some on process things, something else going on, where they're like, I'm afraid to say this on stage for one reason or another. Either it's gonna exclude someone, someone's gonna be offended, whatever might come up for them. Does that

Unmasking and Cancer Story

SPEAKER_01 21:39

ever come up for you?

SPEAKER_00 21:39

Well, I will say two years ago we could have sat down and had this conversation, and the answer would have been totally different. Um, but this year I really stepped out of my faith. On January 2nd, I posted on Facebook a whole unmasking video of like being authentically me. It had, I think, over a thousand views last time I looked. Um, and so I would say, and before, even like a year or two years ago, I was Said my values are the same, faith, health, family, wealth, in that order. But you would see me thinking about my family and my wealth. Maybe not so much my health, right? So that's changed. Um, and as the same with my faith, right? So, like I would say, oh, my personal faith, and then they'd be like, Oh, okay, but they don't see it. Right. And so last year I was at a Christian conference uh that I spoke at, and somebody posed the question if somebody was to walk in to persecute all Christians, would they know that you're a Christian by what you do and how you act and what comes out of your mouth?

SPEAKER_01 22:38

And what about that question made you stop?

SPEAKER_00 22:41

Because I don't think I would have qualified.

SPEAKER_01 22:43

And how did that make you feel?

SPEAKER_00 22:45

Not good.

unknown 22:47

Right?

SPEAKER_00 22:48

Well, integrity is a huge thing. Um, no, the shift came after I got saved again last year. Oh, okay. I went in for an appendectomy and found out I had cancer in my appendix.

SPEAKER_01 22:58

Oh, I'm sorry.

SPEAKER_00 22:58

And uh because they took the appendix, I am cancer free. Yes. Then I went out and told my husband, I was like, You won't believe what happened. And he's like, he's like, Oh, God saved you again. So, and I was like, Oh, this keeps happening. So, yeah, there's lots of stories around that. Listen to the podcast.

SPEAKER_01 23:16

Yeah. I'm actually kind of curious about that story. So I'm gonna go look at that and I'll link it up in the show notes too as well. Interesting. Okay, yeah. So we've we've gone a lot of places in this conversation here. What's coming back for you as most important?

SPEAKER_00 23:32

Why do I care what other people think when I'm not if the whole point is to be true to me? Because really, as much as I like you and we're friends, your opinion doesn't matter at the end of the day. Right? So do what I want. Have my cake and eat it too.

SPEAKER_01 23:49

Have your cake and eat it too.

Money Values and Mix

SPEAKER_01 23:52

And just a small note, because I think it's it's important to demonstrate this or at least to call it out as a potential concern.

SPEAKER_00 23:58

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 23:59

I know that a lot of Christian or faith-based places don't necessarily have the budgets that perhaps other conferences or events, secular ones, might have. Right. Is that a concern for you at all?

SPEAKER_00 24:09

It is to a point. I mean, because I can help the most people when I get paid, right? Because that helps that allows me to do other charity work, things of that nature. However, it's not the end all be all, right?

SPEAKER_01 24:20

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 24:21

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 24:21

Okay. It's important because some people have different goals with their speaking. Some people are like, I don't care as long as I'm in a room full of potential coaching clients. Other people are saying, no, I'm not gonna enter that room unless I get $10,000. You know, like it just depends on your goals for speaking.

SPEAKER_00 24:34

As long as I'm not compromising my values, we're good. Okay. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 24:39

As we think about the right mix of business for you, because you can do all of the things and eat them too. But like, what would be a perfect ideal mix of secular and faith-based work for you in the next year?

SPEAKER_00 24:53

Well, for sure, the podcast is not going anywhere. That's gonna be, you know, my standalone. I was on a call yesterday and somebody's like, if you're gonna call yourself a speaker, you gotta speak twice a week. And I was like, Oh, cool, okay. We're gonna we're gonna work our way to that. Twice a week. I've not heard that. Twice a week is what I heard. Yep. Interesting.

SPEAKER_01 25:09

Everyone has their own like rules, right?

SPEAKER_00 25:11

Yeah, everybody does, right? Eat the fish, leave the bones. Exactly. I think you know, a healthy mix 50-50 between my different engagements. Okay, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 25:21

Well, that sounds sustainable. Does it sound like a fair compromise for you?

SPEAKER_00 25:24

Yes. Awesome. No, nothing's ever 50-50, but yeah, you know what I mean.

SPEAKER_01 25:30

We start here and then wherever we go in that journey is where we go in the journey. Right, absolutely. Was there anything else you'd like to discuss around this conversation of where to focus your time, attention, speaking business?

How Top Speakers Scale

SPEAKER_00 25:46

You know, the one thing that can't keep coming up for me is like, how do the speakers that are the CPAEs, CSPs, how do they do it all? Because when you think about all the things that speakers have to do, yes, right? Social media, email marketing, um, prospecting, admin, finance, marketing. I don't know. I'm missing things. You get the point a lot, right? Yeah. How do you do it all? Like, what does that day look like? And I think that'd be a great thing for you to cover someday.

SPEAKER_01 26:14

Oh, challenge accepted. I'm not a CSP, so I can't speak to no, but you know a lot. I do. I can't speak to what CSPs do, but my observation is six-figure speakers, they have a team. Yeah, they have a personal assistant, they have a VA, they have an OBM, they have somebody handling the back end, and they have the right tools to assist them with those things. And what I'm noticing is a lot of them have DIY programs or services, they're not one-to-one coaches. They either have the group program where they show up once in a while, or they have a course that people do at their own pace, self-pace kind of things. That's what I'm seeing with the more experienced speakers. I don't personally like that model. I have no interest in selling my business to anyone. I have no interest in carrying on the legacy of it. So for me, it dies with me. Yeah, but that's just my how I want to be in my business. So you might have a different approach to what you want to do.

SPEAKER_00 27:03

Yeah, and I do women's group coaching for entrepreneurs on Mondays. So we have a group that we work with at called the Growth Lounge, but then I do select individual one-to-one coaching too.

SPEAKER_01 27:14

So yeah, so you have other things going on as well. You're not just speaking and prospecting and email marketing, you're also coaching and consulting and leading groups. So again, that capacity comes up of yeah, what is your focus? And for me, speaking and and coaching, one year speaking is more, one year coaching is more, and it just flip-flops from time to time. What is your mix

Weekly Focus System

SPEAKER_01 27:34

for that?

SPEAKER_00 27:34

So, interestingly enough, because I have so many things, this is one of my little tips. So I have a little mini whiteboard on my desk, and every day is a different thing. Mondays are my podcast days, Tuesdays are prospecting, Wednesday and Thursdays are meetings, Friday is admin. And so that day I walk in and I know exactly what I'm doing. And so that that helps me to align my focus for that day and touch every part of the business once a week.

SPEAKER_01 28:01

Nice. Yeah. I do something similar. It's like weekly themes, and I also plan by the moon, but that's a whole nother conversation. If anyone wants to know about that, I can talk about that. I love how you compartmentalize, you know, it sounds like you're very clear on your targets, yeah, how to

Mic Drop and Connect

SPEAKER_01 28:16

get to them. And um, I appreciate having you in the podcast today talking about this because I don't hear enough from the Christian and faith-based folks. And I think, you know, there are many messages to share and many stages to share them on. Yes. So I appreciate that that's where you're saying, I'm gonna go all in. I'm gonna be who I am, fully as I am, and why do I care what anyone else thinks? It's a lot easier to just be yourself. That's a mic drop. Just be yourself. Awesome. Michelle, how can we connect with you?

SPEAKER_00 28:45

Oh, yes, LinkedIn. Start there, Michelle von Ruden.

SPEAKER_01 28:49

All right, you'll see it in the show notes as well. And as we get your website and we get MVR up and running, ready to go, most valuable resource. I'll link that in the show notes as well. Stay tuned. Make sure you subscribe so that you can catch the updated website.

SPEAKER_00 29:03

Thanks for being in the studio, Michelle. Thank you.