S1E14: Parashat Bully

Anything can be a milkshake, or a thinly-veiled song trashing your student, or a problematic set of new All-American Men-Only Mahjong rules, or a name for The Lord, or a weird translation of Josh. Just breathe. This is a good episode with a lot of spoken and unspoken MEANING and POWER and THE OPPOSITE OF HATE.

Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:00

Pull out your mahjong tiles and stop watering that cactus with beer. It's ParaShot Bully this week on Jew Girl. Hello and welcome to Jew Girl, a New Girl podcast for the Jew Curious, in which I make my brother watch my favorite TV show New Girl for the first time and learn some stuff about Judaism. My name is Robin.

SPEAKER_00 0:30

My name's Jay. And Winston's bully catchphrase is brown lightning.

SPEAKER_01 0:35

Brown lightning! Brown lightning. Oh, I'm excited to talk about this episode. This is a fun episode for me. I hope you felt the same way. Let me jump right into a recap, huh? Let's let's jump. Okay. Schmidt and Cece are secretly sleeping together. Cece keeps insisting every time that it's the last time, but she weirdly cannot stay away. Schmidt's thrilled, except that he hates the secrecy and the fact that she's ashamed to be with him. But eventually he negotiates a breakfast together in public, which she chooses to have in a Chinese restaurant in the middle of nowhere. Public-ish. There she tells Schmidt she doesn't just want to be a prize. He gets to show off. But he tells her how highly he thinks of her, and so she lets him excitedly announce their little situation ship to the restaurant. Meanwhile, Julia is away on a work trip, but she sends Nick a cactus. He immediately assumes it's a breakup omen because it's a commentary on his inability to keep things alive. And he leaves her like seven increasingly unhinged voicemails about it, really spirals. When Julia gets back, we learn that she hadn't meant anything by the cactus. But after listening to those seven voicemails, she realizes she needs to break up with him. Nick spends the rest of the episode dying on the inside, pretty clearly, or maybe stoned or drunk, but trying to hold it together, but he ultimately fails when he breaks down at the school science fair about how we're all gonna die alone at a children's science fair. Which brings us to Jess's storyline. So at school, one of her students, Nathaniel, is getting bullied. And for some reason, Jess thinks she can teach the kids about kindness by writing a song called Sad Sparrow and having Nathaniel perform it with her in front of the class. But one of the bullies, Brianna, who by the way is poised to win the upcoming science fair with the robotic arm she built, she records the performance. She edits it to turn Jess into a singing bird pooping and getting pooped on, and she posts it on YouTube. When Jess tries to confront Brianna, Brianna just bullies her some more and afterwards Jess snaps and breaks Brianna's science fair project, which she ultimately has to confess to at the science fair. But their conflict resolves eventually when Jess tells Brianna she doesn't have to like her, but she does have to deal with her. And she makes her sing a duet at the front of the class. Cell phone recording encouraged this time.

SPEAKER_00 3:11

Cell phone recording encouraged. Yeah, it was a good episode. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Hold that feeling shtick. Tell me. Tell me how you feel. Number one prediction, top of the list. Winston will become an astronaut.

SPEAKER_01 3:25

Oh, okay.

SPEAKER_00 3:27

He looked at that moon and he said, one day I'm what did he say? One day I'm gonna work there or live there? I'm gonna live on it. I'm gonna live on that. Uh so that's my prediction. Love it. We're batting hard today. Uh I really hope that that comes back, but there's absolutely no chance.

SPEAKER_01 3:43

I mean, it kind of is, you can see the burgeoning plot line of Winston's career. The Wayne Bergeron. The Wayne Bergeron of what Winston is gonna do as a career now that he's not a, you know, he had the temp job. He's it's it's been a topic, so yeah. You know, maybe you never know. You never know.

SPEAKER_00 4:02

I could see him being an astronaut. Could be onto something. Except I don't know if he has a background in any sort of science field that might be applicable.

SPEAKER_01 4:09

We'll never know. No, we'll know.

SPEAKER_00 4:12

Um, that cactus that Julia gives Nick. Yeah, it's a little sad, but I feel like that cactus was like a self-fulfilling prophecy, right? Yeah. I mean, one of my favorite jokes was Winston saying, Did the cactus tell you that? Is this one of those fortune-telling cactuses? Yes, fortune-telling cactuses! Yes, that was one of my favorite parts. You got it. It sort of was a self-fulfilling prophecy because the cactus is what made Nick spiral and him spiraling and sending the voicemails is what made Julia realize she didn't want to be with him. So, like, she kinda already didn't want to. It's not fully self-fulfilling, but like in terms of speeding up the breakup, it really was. So it kind of was a fortune-telling cactus in a way.

SPEAKER_01 4:52

Yeah, true.

SPEAKER_00 4:54

Julia, she is a short-term relationship on this show. I didn't count the number of episodes, but what, like three, maybe? Maybe four. Justice for Julia.

SPEAKER_01 5:05

Justice for Julia. I mean, maybe she'll be back.

SPEAKER_00 5:08

Maybe she'll be back, I guess.

SPEAKER_01 5:10

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 5:10

Also, it is so uncomfortable how Schmidt starts yelling to everyone in the restaurant that he's sleeping with Cece.

SPEAKER_01 5:17

Ooh, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 5:18

Also, poor Cece not wanting to be a a prize. Like we sort of get insight into all of her other relationships and how men treat her. And it makes it really sad to see. Um, really vulnerable a moment for her to admit that.

SPEAKER_01 5:34

It puts the whole, you know, keeping the relationship secret in a a more interesting, a better light, because it's not just that she's, you know, quote, ashamed of Schmidt for being who he is. It's like, no, she, yeah, she's got baggage around just being shown off.

SPEAKER_00 5:48

So And if they're if they're gonna end up being together in the long run, a better way to start that they're starting on a different foot than with the other relationships. Although him yelling to the restaurant is basically him being that jerk and all the things that she doesn't want. So, like that uncomfortable moment, but you know. I know. And then Jess buying Nick a plant at the end of the episode, it's because I I'm calling it now. Plants are a sign of relationships. Plants are a relationship indicator in this.

SPEAKER_01 6:20

Oh my gosh, wait a second. I did I miss that? That's so interesting.

SPEAKER_00 6:24

Right? I'm pretty sure she buys him the plant. Oh, now I don't know. Was I was I no, I'm sure you're right.

SPEAKER_01 6:30

I just I just didn't I didn't write it down. Oh, hey, remember um, oh my god, was the flower pot smashed? Did the did I know the cactus gets broken? Oh wow! Remember how we were on the lookout for plant holders being smashed? I forgot about that entirely.

SPEAKER_00 6:45

I can't believe I forgot to say a smashed flower pot.

SPEAKER_01 6:48

But yes, I smashed flower pot.

SPEAKER_00 6:50

We kept that cactus is flower. Regardless of the flower, it's a plant and a pot and it broke.

SPEAKER_01 6:56

Yes, yeah. Did the pot break? I don't know, but the plant broke. I don't know. So that's okay.

SPEAKER_00 7:01

Good point. Maybe the pot didn't break.

SPEAKER_01 7:03

It's okay.

SPEAKER_00 7:03

It's j you know, overall, plant watch. I love the idea that he could just like tape the cactus back together though, and somehow that would make it be alive again.

SPEAKER_01 7:18

I don't know. Ooh, I like that. I like that.

SPEAKER_00 7:19

That's deep. I'm sure there's something there. Alright, and rattling off my other two favorite moments and staying on Nick for that matter. The cutaway of him kicking a flower as a sign of him not being able to take care of plants. Like, it's just like on the sidewalk. Like, you don't you don't need to take care of this plant, Nick. Why are you resorting to kicking it? But that was very funny. A lot of good Nick cutaways lately. Ugh, uh, I love them. And then uh seeing the flashback with young Winston and of course that catchphrase brown lightning. We I think we've now seen a flashback of a young version of everyone except Cece. So yeah. I guess we'll see young Cece at some point. There's my other prediction.

SPEAKER_01 8:05

We probably will. We probably will. I love Nick Miller. I know you are always talking about his red flags. All his red flags are green flags for me because he's just so funny. I would have loved getting all those voicemails. It would have been hilarious. I'm sad that he got dubbed for them. My friend, this is actually really funny. I have one other friend who is as obsessed with New Girl as I am. She texted me recently that she had a dream that she and I were both marrying Nick Miller and he was gonna split his time between both of us, and we were both fine with the arrangement.

SPEAKER_00 8:40

Wow. It's uh is that what sister wives means?

SPEAKER_01 8:45

Sorry, we're sister wives of Schmidt. I mean of Nick Miller. Oh, it's so funny. But speaking of Schmidt, the other thing I wanted to mention is that I was sad. I mean, I was sad for Cece and the insight into her past relationships. But I was also sad for Schmidt, like knowing that he used to be uncool in college and not as like svelt as he is now, it was really sad to hear Cece say, I can't be the first woman to be ashamed to be with you. Which like I know she was meaning emo, you know, like his personality. I'm sure that's what she meant. Right. But still, it's kind of sad to think of, you know, earlier Schmidt, and like, oh I don't know. Anyway, anyway, my other favorite moments, other than uh the one that you already said about the fact fortune-telling cactus is yes, a Nick Miller cutaway when he's like leaving a voicemail, you put me in the desert, I'd grow some needles too. You bet I would. FYI, I'm not high right now, and he's pouring the beer into the cactus. And then also when he's at the science fair, like still drunk, but like trying to sound happy to mask the pain, he's like, Guess what? I just learned what's inside of a pumpkin. Apparently, a lot. Didn't know. Whoa. He's like walking away looking at something, whoa. That's funny.

SPEAKER_00 9:54

Uh Nick Miller is strong this episode, very strong. Do we think that means that Nick has never carved a pumpkin? That's a good question. Or just never learned like the scientific intricacies of the insides of a pumpkin that maybe a science poster taught him. That could be it.

SPEAKER_01 10:10

Although, then again, if you're looking at some of those science fair projects in the room closely, it's probably just like a bunch of goop. That's the answer to what's inside a pumpkin, because some of these. Did you see the one that's like anything can be a milkshake? And it's just putting things in blunders? We'll come back to that. We'll come back to that.

SPEAKER_00 10:29

That's funny. Well, I really liked when the kid who was getting bullied held up his and it was a flashlight just taped to a ball.

SPEAKER_01 10:37

Yeah, to a ball, exactly.

SPEAKER_00 10:40

But this brings us to a little J aside.

SPEAKER_01 10:43

Ooh! Take me there.

SPEAKER_00 10:46

We did you know that I and my good friend in high school won our science fair? Oh no. We won the high school science fair. Actually, we came in second, and then the next year we came in first.

SPEAKER_01 11:03

What? Yeah. Did we go to different high? I don't even think we had any science fairs in high school. How did you have two that you got second and first place in? Wait, what were your projects?

SPEAKER_00 11:13

Actually, we had three. What? Because after winning, we became judges.

SPEAKER_01 11:19

Stop it, nah.

SPEAKER_00 11:21

Yeah, we went from second to first to judges.

SPEAKER_01 11:24

What? Oh my gosh. Oh my gosh. What were your winning projects?

SPEAKER_00 11:30

What were they? Our first one was about uh like uh I'm gonna make it sound fancier than it actually was. Okay. Water transfer rates. Basically, it was about how you could drain water from, you know, like one of those big office water cooler water jugs, big blue jug, right? Like maybe a foot and a half tall or something. It was basically about how fast you could get water out of there and whether spinning it to get basically a vortex could help it go faster. Oh. Spoiler alert, yes, it helped it go faster because you're getting air in as the water was going out instead of glug, glug, glug, glug, right? It it was like basically creating a tornado. How on earth did you think of this? I don't know.

SPEAKER_01 12:16

This is so random. That's cra I mean, it's interesting.

SPEAKER_00 12:20

It's so random. I'll have to ask my friend, it was his idea. Second year, the one that actually won, was about, and I think Mythbusters may have also done this. Uh so maybe that's where we got this idea. I don't know. But to to try to test a couple variables of when you're driving, whether driving with the AC on and whether you're driving with the windows down, how it affects your fuel consumption. And pretty sure that our findings were like having the windows down was creating more drag than having the AC on. I I don't fully remember if that was our result, but I do fully uh remember that the worst result was having the AC blasting and the windows down. Which is maybe not a shocker there.

SPEAKER_01 13:08

Don't Jay, don't make me laugh too hard. I've got a I'm recovering from a cold and I just keep wheezing if I laugh too hard. So try not to be funny this episode.

SPEAKER_00 13:18

Oh, oh, okay, okay. So, anyways, that was your JSide.

SPEAKER_01 13:23

Love it. Wee! That's becoming back back from the JSide now. We oh, good. Alright, well, all very interesting. Do you, before we leave the feeling shit, do you have any coins you want to drop in the douchebag Sadako box for anything in particular?

SPEAKER_00 13:39

Yeah. Couple quick ones. Jess for writing a song about a bird, and the bird is a stand-in for her student being bullied, and she's saying bad things about the bird in the song. She's like talking about the bird not being smart or pretty. It's like, oh yeah, good point. Right, you're also dissing your student, Jess. I hadn't really thought about that.

SPEAKER_01 14:03

Yeah, that's a bummer.

SPEAKER_00 14:04

And when you make him stand up there and and press the press the you know, that one drum button. Exactly. Like, everyone knows it's about him. I don't know. So Jess didn't really think that through. Schmidt said something in passing about a gypsy courtesan. Mmm. That I was like, I think that I think that word has been we don't do that anymore. Yeah. Yeah, I don't don't think we do that anymore. And also the principal for being a kid hater. Ooh, yeah. Boo, get out of funny. Kind of funny, but get out of education.

SPEAKER_01 14:39

Get out of education.

SPEAKER_00 14:42

Anything else? Any other coins you have?

SPEAKER_01 14:44

Yes, I just want to put a little uh little coin in there for proposing a gay joke. Some gay jokes in this show. You can it really you feel its age anytime they do a gay joke, but there's a this one, I mean this one's not heinous, but she's like, it's a flashback to young Jess being bullied, and she says, My last name rhymes with gay, and the best you can think of is jerksica, because that's what the bully calls her.

SPEAKER_00 15:05

So just like in proposing a gay joke for them on on behalf of the bully. Right, right. My first name also rhymes with gay, but uh good point. Did you get that? Were people bullying with that when you were a kid? Shockingly less than you would expect, I think. Yeah, yeah. Well, good. Yeah. Probably bullied more for being Jewish.

SPEAKER_01 15:27

Oh my god, really?

SPEAKER_00 15:28

How topical for this show. Oh no.

SPEAKER_01 15:31

Is that true? Are you bullied for being Jewish?

SPEAKER_00 15:34

No, no. No, we didn't we didn't go to school with actual bigots. We went to school with like family guy ironic. Casual bigots. Yeah, casual bigots. Uh just some casual bigotry. Yeah, you can well listen.

SPEAKER_01 15:51

I don't know if you have any Oive Edipe. This is not maybe this is I don't know if this is trivia. This is just a gripe I have. Sure. When Cece's on the phone and you can see the apps, you can see that she's not even on the phone. They didn't even try to like edit the phone screen. It's just up against her face, but you can see all the apps just like on a screen.

SPEAKER_00 16:11

Oh, I didn't notice that.

SPEAKER_01 16:13

It got me. That's just my real I really looked at it. I said, oi, hey, oi, hey. Why don't they even try? Anyway, that's mine.

SPEAKER_00 16:20

And that's like an easy thing. Like, even just like, you know, lock the phone. Just make it a dark screen. Even that would be more believable, you know?

SPEAKER_01 16:28

Right. Exactly. Didn't even try. Maybe it was an accident. Maybe she. But still. I can't be the only one who noticed it. What are you gonna do? What are you gonna do? Maybe I was the only one who noticed it because maybe I'm an observant Jew. That's right. We're going to the observant Jews segment, in which we figure out if we two Jews observe certain things, those things being any Jewish jokes or Jewish content. And this burden primarily falling on my shoulder. The bear of the episode. So, Jay, did you find any Jewish jokes or Jewish content this episode?

SPEAKER_00 17:15

Yes. Schmidt, when he says Lahaim in bed with Cece.

SPEAKER_01 17:19

That's right. Yes.

SPEAKER_00 17:21

And well, wait, were there any other Jewish jokes?

SPEAKER_01 17:23

Well, there's some Jewish adjacent jokes, you might say, Oh, well, this one I feel like is Jewish. He's talking about cheese for some reason. He's doing that whole sexy cheese course thing. He says, or maybe some cream cheese. Want some schmear, Cece? Schmeer being a Yiddish word often used used to describe cream cheese. Right. Right. Yiddish for shh spread or smear. Oh. Good to know. Schmeer. And then, you know, I mean, I don't know how cooth this is for me to lump in, but there was that Hitler joke. Oh. Which is actually very funny. Just says something who had a Hitler mustache, and she's like, I'm sorry, I just want to banter with you guys in the morning. I just like panicked and I made a Hitler joke. I'm sorry.

SPEAKER_00 18:09

So we don't like that, but we don't like that. I did clock that in the moment, and then I and then I was like, should I include this? I don't know. I don't know.

SPEAKER_01 18:17

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 18:18

Yeah, yeah, yeah. We'll move right along from me including that right now. Hitler doesn't deserve to be included in That's right. In a Jewish reference thing, other than the fact that other than historical context, in which case, don't erase history. But you know.

SPEAKER_01 18:32

Yes. But I just like that she was apologizing. You know, the joke is like, oops, I made a Hitler joke. I don't wanna, I just wanna banter with you guys and like I really messed up and made a Hitler, I panicked, made a Hitler. Okay, anyway, anyway, moving on.

SPEAKER_00 18:43

Bear! Bear! Elijah the Fridge Bear, but I didn't say anything else. Elijah the Fridge Bear.

SPEAKER_01 18:49

I think that it's just Elijah the Fridge Bear, but I will say there is a stuffed animal that at first looks like a teddy bear stuck into that science fair project I mentioned that is anything can be a milkshake. So there's a blender. It's like a blender, and there's a there's a stuffed animal sticking out of it that at first I thought was a teddy bear. Later, when you see it again, it actually maybe looks more like a stuffed monkey and might be holding a banana. But I feel like I Googled it. I feel like someone was saying, like, oh, that's the bear. A second time I saw it, I'm like, uh, this might not actually be a bear.

SPEAKER_00 19:30

But we can pretend.

SPEAKER_01 19:31

It's almost a bear, at least. It's a stuffed animal. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's bear adjacent, if I'm using the word adjacent a lot, this looks. But yeah, good old Elijah the fridge bear.

SPEAKER_00 19:39

The one that you saw, that's Shemai the Blender Bear.

SPEAKER_01 19:43

Shammai the Blender Bear.

SPEAKER_00 19:48

Notoriously hangs out in a blender as punishment for the hollaha not following him.

SPEAKER_01 19:54

Yeah, every time we don't like his ruling, eh, the blender.

SPEAKER_00 19:59

Just to scare him. Watch out. It's also the noise he makes when you when you say something he doesn't agree with. Anytime anyone mentioned, they're like, well, I don't know.

SPEAKER_01 20:09

Hillel says, and he's like, ah. Freaking Hillal. Everyone's bringing up Hillel. Oh man. Beautiful. Well, are you ready for a little Schmid bit? Schmid the bit. This, of course, is the segment in which I give a little tidbit about Judaism or something Jewish, inspired by something that Schmidt said or did this episode. This one might be longer than my Drosh, so I'm gonna get right into it. And it's just the topic I wanted to do justice to, okay? Okay. It's interesting. I hope you find it as interesting as I do. So, when they are at the Chinese food restaurant at the end, and he's about to excitedly announce the situation ship. Do you know what I'm gonna talk about already? About how Jews love Chinese food. Okay, that would have also been a good topic. But no, actually, it's a good point. Good point. There is that stereotype about Jews on Christmas. Love that. But he tells a group of guys who are playing mahjong to call a timeout. He's like, call a timeout to whatever that thing is, is how he says it. That, my friend, is not realistic because Jews know from mahjong, okay? By the way, that's a Yiddishism, by the way. I don't know if you ever hear like knows from. That's like a Yiddish phrase translated into English. It means nose about. So Jews know from mahjong, okay? I'm gonna talk about mahjong. We're talking about mahjong.

SPEAKER_00 21:33

Okay. Also, I almost put a coin in the Sadaka box for Schmidt saying whatever that is to Mahjong. I was like, come on, man.

SPEAKER_01 21:41

Whatever that thing is. I mean, yes. How do you not know what that is? We can put some coins in and also point out unrealistic, he would know. He would know. He's an American Jew, he's a he's a white American Jew. He knows what Mahjong is. I guarantee his mother was playing Mahjong. In a woman's club at the JCC 10 years ago. I can see her now. Okay, Mahjong. So obviously, Mahjong is a Chinese game. I'm gonna tell you the history of Mahjong in America, basically. That's what we're about to do. Are you ready for this?

SPEAKER_02 22:13

Yeah, oh excited.

SPEAKER_01 22:15

So in the early 1900s, a few American guys, not Jewish, as far as I know, at least, American guys are living in Shanghai, and they decide to bring Mahjong to the United States. What could go wrong? What could possibly be problematic and culturally appropriate of about it? Let's find out. So, okay, anyway, they start selling mahjong sets to 1920s America, and they are explicitly trying to play up the exotic angle and building up its foreign mystique. And they created a totally fabricated myth about it being invented 3,000 years ago by Confucius. And they essentially succeeded in separating its identity from the actual Chinese immigrants of the day. They sold its image as a really cosmopolitan, upper class pastime, okay? Okay. So it gained a lot of popularity in New York first, among all ethnicities and all ages, okay? But the Depression, the stock market crashes, and games in general sort of lose their mass appeal culturally. Sure. Except with Jewish housewives for some reason. Okay. They still like playing mahjong so much so that by the 1950s, it's a stereotype that it's a Jewish game. And quote, this is from some article I read, I guess. So I didn't write down my source, sorry to the author. Quote, media references to mahjong in the 1950s overwhelmingly mention the game in conjunction with Jews. That's how much the Jewish housewives are still playing Mahjong, and it's, you know, it's in the zeitgeist that the Jewish women are playing this game. So the popularity in the Jewish community really takes hold. By the way, this coincides with upward mobility for many children of immigrants, kind of like we were talking about with the baseball. Sure. So with more quote white ethnics being accepted into mainstream American society. And also women are more highly educated than they used to be, and they are holding jobs before they have kids, and then are also relocating to the suburbs and experiencing this new suburban housewife life. So anyway, they're sort of looking for community in that context. And, you know, like you're upwardly mobile, you're more highly educated than you used to be. You had a job, but now you have a kid, now you're moving to the suburbs. So really they're looking for community and using mahjong as an excuse to gather with women in the same cultural boat. Gotcha. Okay, so that's sort of the context for the women who were doing this. And some people suggest, some historians suggest, that it was a comfortable choice. Mahjong was a comfortable choice for Jews because it was not historically tied to a Christian nation. So it didn't make them feel like they were just fully assimilating into the, you know, predominantly Protestant rest of the culture. Um, you know, it was sort of like an other thing. And so, and they were kind of other, so whatever. It becomes a staple of Jewish family resorts in the Catskills. I don't know if you've ever heard of the Borschtbelt.

SPEAKER_00 25:29

I have heard that before.

SPEAKER_01 25:30

Yeah, so in the Borschtbelt, everyone's playing mahjong in the summer resorts. And it also gets associated with Jewish philanthropy and Sadaka in general by the National Mahjong League, which was founded by five Jewish women. Oh wow. So they standardized a set of American rules. This is very much American Mahjong we're talking about. I mean, there were like lots and lots of different rule sets too when it first got popular, but they standardized a set of what they called American rules. Okay. But famously they donated their proceeds to Jewish charities and then also non-Jewish causes during World War II. And actually, the league still exists, and that philanthropy still exists, continues to this day. So, you know, most current recipients are actually big name charities, mostly not Jewish anymore. Red Cross, Cancer Research, Habitat for Humanity, stuff like that. So they're still donating proceeds to um Tadaka, you can say. So then and now that sort of tied the game to the idea of Tadaka. And it is still popular in Jewish circles. It never went away. You will see Mahjong clubs at JCC's, for example, all the time. I wrote this up and then immediately started getting emails just fully coincidentally from our synagogue talking about the Mahjong club meeting up, starting up again.

SPEAKER_00 26:46

Have you done it? Are you gonna do it?

SPEAKER_01 26:48

I have not done it. You know, I actually do have a friend who has taught me Mahjong a few times. Retaught me every time we play. And she's not Jewish, but she learned it from her fake Jewish grandma neighbor. Like she grew up with a neighbor who was Jewish, sort of like a fake grandma figure in her life, and she taught her mahjong. So now she's the mahjong influence in my life. So it's co it's still a quasi-Jewish uh connection for me there.

SPEAKER_00 27:15

Do I dare ask if the modern league has brought in any more of like the actual Chinese origins or like Mahjong community into the fold?

SPEAKER_01 27:25

Yeah, funny you ask. And unsurprisingly, actually, I don't really I don't know about the official Mahjong League. They could have. I didn't really look that up. I am about to talk about the idea of cultural appropriation and all the mixed feelings we have about this whole thing. Gotcha. But I will say I did come across one company that was getting it some hot water because they were like, this is not your grandma's mahjong. Not, I don't think these women were even Jewish. They were just like putting out a contemporary mahjong set and they they really caught heat because there was just like, they're like, we're making a better mahjong. This is this is real good, American, better mahjong, with like absolutely no reference to where this game came from at all. People were mad about that one. That was a modern example, but cultural appropriation generally about mahjong and the Jewish adoption of it, people have mixed feelings. Okay. So there is a book on this, on rather mahjong in American culture. The author calls out, by the way, I don't think the author is Chinese, so I will put that out there. I don't know that she's Jewish either, though, but she calls out the racism and the quote orientalism that was happening in the 1920s. But she also uh she also likens its quote story of cultural exchange and evolution to that of rock and roll. Sure. Which is also steeped, you know, in like direct cultural and economic theft and racism. This is still a quote now. Sure. And also giving form to beautiful works of art and creating new kinds of cultural life. So, you know, she's sort of trying to walk that line of like, yes, it was rooted in very, very problematic things, and it sort of becomes a new thing too, you know. Right, right. But she still urges players, this author, uh, not quote, not to try to exempt themselves from the history of mahjong that is tied up with racism. And oh yeah, yeah, yeah. I did actually write, you know, it continues to rear its head most prominently when white women are marketing new and improved mahjong without hardly any references or respect for it. It's its Chinese origins. So look at that. I did give them a vague bullet point there.

SPEAKER_02 29:31

Oh yeah.

SPEAKER_01 29:32

So I don't know, it's complicated, right? But all of that to say it is linked in the cultural zeitgeist with Jewish women, for better or worse, in addition to, of course, Asian and Asian American culture.

SPEAKER_00 29:45

So now you know. Now I know. Yeah, I had no idea or or even inkling of that until now. I mean, I'm not, I guess I'm not surprised. I can see the idea of like uh a bunch of women at the JCC getting together to play mahjong, but I I didn't know the connection. So it's neat.

SPEAKER_01 30:02

You should ask dad next time you talk to him. I am like 98% sure his mom played mahjong. Really? Like with the other Jewish ladies, yes, in the community. I'm I'm very confident. I've heard him talk about mahjong. So even if she didn't, he is the one who taught me about the stereotypes. So yeah, yeah, you should you should ask him.

SPEAKER_00 30:22

I've never played any version whatsoever of it.

SPEAKER_01 30:27

Wait, not even the like computer game version. Because when I was a kid, I loved the computer game. Wow, really? Okay. I've really enjoyed it, even though I've had to relearn it every time I play it. I'll tell you the best part about it. Click, click, click, click, click, click, click, click, click, click. It's really tactily satisfying. The little clicking of the tiles. It's really nice. Um, no, you'd like it. I mean, it's fun. It's fun. It's there's still so the American rules still exist. You get like a little booklet, but there's like two kinds you can play. Maybe one of them is less American and more Chinese. I don't actually know. I'm now I'm speaking off off the cuff, and so I really am super ignorant. Sure. But I'd recommend. It's fun. You'd like it.

SPEAKER_00 31:07

Yeah, no, I'll have to try. I recently, the board game that I most recently got into was Back Gammon. Ah. Which is one of those games that like growing up, I you know, you kind of peripherally like you see the board occasionally somewhere.

SPEAKER_01 31:23

We like had one in our basement, but never touched it because who can play backgammon? Right.

SPEAKER_00 31:27

It's like, what is what is this game with the spikes? But that's been that's been a good game.

SPEAKER_01 31:32

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 31:32

But yeah, I should give Mahjong a try.

SPEAKER_01 31:34

Backgammon's another one that I have to relearn every time because I like never play it, but also tactily satisfying, right? My friend has a really nice board, makes some clicking noises when you put down the thing. Click, click, click, click, click, click, click, click, click, click.

SPEAKER_00 31:45

I'm curious if there's any like scholarly works on the cross-section between cultural appropriation and when like getting something from another culture isn't negative.

SPEAKER_01 31:59

Oh, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 32:00

Specifically as it pertains to games. Oh, yeah. Because, well, I mean, and uh there are other things, right? Like you said the you said rock and roll in terms of the you know, racism and taking it from from African American roots. But I my brain went right to I saw a documentary once talking about how in Soviet Russia, like the Beatles became really big and it was like a big subversive culture sort of shift, right? And like it was very influential in in a generation towards the end of uh the Soviet Union. And I say specifically for games, just because they are so fun, right? Like they're yeah, they're not uh steeped in like a religious ritual necessarily, right? Or culture beyond a game. I mean, games are part of culture.

SPEAKER_01 32:44

Yeah, yeah, yeah. But no, I mean cultural appropriation, oh yeah, I'm sure there's like four million dissertations on every aspect of cultural appropriation in any topic you can imagine, but like it's a more complicated topic than just it's it's not inherently bad to, you know, participate in shared things across cultural, you know, I I think it's more problematic when, for example, these women who are like giving no reference to its origins and the fact that it's so recently uh appropriated, I guess, or you know, so recently brought over. I mean, as time goes on, I think actually it's interesting when I, whenever I hear about food in this conversation, because I think food scholars, like scholars of food culture, and history, they are, I think a voice, maybe I'm wrong, right enough, I'm wrong. But I think, you know, the average person might be like, oh, we're culturally appropriating by like eating sushi or something like that. But I think those scholars are like, no, no, like food has always crossed boundaries. It's a lot more complicated than just saying, you know, like, you know, so it's something to be enjoyed and shared. Right, right. And it's not like every, you know, participation in something across a cultural divide is appropriative. Right. Uh better scholars than I can articulate when it becomes, you know, problematic or iffy, but right, right.

SPEAKER_00 34:02

And I bet, well, I I bet there's actual scholars who have better terms for this, but in my mind now I'm thinking like maybe the phrase I'm looking for is cultural exchange as of as like a sort of a foil to appropriation. It's like the the positive side of things from one culture leaching into another culture.

SPEAKER_01 34:24

Yes, absolutely.

SPEAKER_00 34:27

So neat. So do we think that mahjong is in the Jewish community is a net positive? A net positive. It sounds like most of the Jewish community is still attributing at least the roots, right? Accurately. I mean, they're playing by American rules, but I think so.

SPEAKER_01 34:43

Right. I mean, yeah, apart from the the Jewish women who like founded the league and is like, this is American mahjong. I mean, maybe the fact that they were calling it American mahjong is actually a step in the right direction because they are like American Chinese food. Right. Right. Like, you know, when we eat Chinese food, it's like, well, it's American Chinese food, acknowledging like there's real Chinese food too. It's like well, the Chinese played it first, like it's actually their game, but but this is our, you know, our version of it, I guess.

SPEAKER_00 35:06

You're right, you're right. Better than pretending like it's the uh the original or the authentic. Right.

SPEAKER_01 35:12

And, you know, like I said, I think one of the reasons that they did gravitate towards it is because, you know, it was they were recognizing the origins of it as, you know, this is like not just mainstream America, this is not from some Christian nation, this is, you know, this is distinct, this is like a Chinese cultural thing. I mean, but then again, they were also receiving it from the highly orientalized, you know, mass marketing version that everybody was getting in the 1920s. So who's to really say? Who's to say? Sure, sure. Like all these things, I'm sure it's complicated, but Jews are still loving it today. So people they're they're yeah, yeah. Hopefully they're doing a better job because it is going strong in the Jewish community, especially among women. Although maybe it's less gendered now. I think, you know, historically because they had the housewife thing and they were trying to relate and gather over mahjong, but maybe it's less gendered now. I shouldn't be so I shouldn't make an assumption.

SPEAKER_00 36:02

I'm gonna start a men-only mahjong uh club. No, I'm not gonna do that.

SPEAKER_01 36:08

Men's mahjong. Men's jong. No, don't call it men's jong. That's the worst thing I've ever said. Yeah, that's bad.

SPEAKER_00 36:16

How about this drage, though? This drage is shorter, you think, than the Schmidt bit?

SPEAKER_01 36:20

Yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean, I better make it shorter now because I feel like I talked about mahjong for a pretty long time there.

SPEAKER_00 36:26

I mean, it didn't help that I started musing on the difference between appropriation and exchange. Go ahead.

SPEAKER_01 36:31

Which is a shame, because this is a very interesting topic to me, but well, let me just jump into it. We're gonna talk about the unspoken. That's the idea for today's drosh, okay? The unspoken.

SPEAKER_00 36:44

You know what I have to say about that?

SPEAKER_01 36:46

What? I knew you were gonna do that, you silly boy. Stop making me laugh. I'm gonna talk about Judaism first here, okay? Okay. One of the many names for God used in the Torah, but sort of the big one, the big one, okay, is comprised of four Hebrew letters. Yud, he, vav, he. Those are the four letters. Yud, he, vav, hey. It's like um a Y, an H, a W, an H. Y, H, W, H. Put that in the chat for you there. Yud, hey, Vav He.

SPEAKER_00 37:22

And that's where we get Yahweh, right? Because that's like Yahweh.

SPEAKER_01 37:26

Yes. Yes, which you will not hear me say this episode, but I'm glad you've said it for the listeners. Oh, so yes, we've got- No, was I not supposed to say it, but that's the thing. It's fine. Unspoken? Well, that's kind of the thing. That's kind of the kind of the thing. It's kind of the thing.

SPEAKER_00 37:39

Am I allowed to post this with me having said that?

SPEAKER_01 37:42

You can say it. I mean, scholars say it all the time. We'll we'll keep talking. We'll keep talking about it. It's gonna be fine. So you got yes, the Y sound, the H sound. The the W is sort of like a W or a V sound in Hebrew. It can kind of be both, and then another H sound. So this word appears thousands of times in the Hebrew Bible, but the rabbinic tradition is to not pronounce or try to pronounce the name out loud. So whenever we see this word written, we read it out loud as Adonai, or sometimes Elohim. But um, you know, in all the prayers that we say, like the blessings over the wine that you know, if you see that blessing written out, when we say bruch at adonai, the word that's actually written is not adonai if you sounded it out. Oh wow. It's gudhe vavhe. It's this name here. And if you read like a Bible, if you ever open up an old Old Testament quote quote or a Torah, a Hebrew Bible, and you see the word like the Lord written in in like tiny caps, that's sort of how it's denoted in English a lot of the times. That it's like, this is that name right here. This is us translating that the big one, okay? Many Jews will use the word or the name Hashem as a stand-in for the name of God, and Hashem literally means the name. And in fact, this four-letter word, this four-letter name, is often referred to in English as the name. Like it is the name. Capital the capital N for name, okay? So Hashem, the name. It also is referred to as the tetragrammaton. That's the like fancy scholarly word for this four-letter. Tetragrammaton. I don't even know if I'm saying it right. I've only ever seen it written out loud. Written, never, never said out loud, probably. So anyway, you have probably heard the word Jehovah, as in the witnesses. Yeah. Okay, so that comes from Okay, so in Hebrew, all the letters are generally all letters in Hebrew are sort of consonants. Right. And they're like little dots and marks sometimes added in to help represent vowel sounds.

SPEAKER_00 39:52

Right.

SPEAKER_01 39:53

To help people read it. This is kind of like a squishy explanation, because like sometimes they use some of the letters as like a vowel sound, but anyway, it doesn't matter. Imagine that they're all consonants and the little dots are added to help you with pronunciation for vowels. So scribes when they're copying the Torah, and you know that's still done by hand, by the way, but anyway, when they're when scribes copied the texts, they wrote the vowels for the word Adonai onto those four letters, which of course did not have any vowels of their own. You know, the the original text doesn't have any vowels, so scribes added them in, but when they encountered that the name, they added some vowels, but they added the vowels for Adonai, since that's how we read it out loud when we encounter it, even though that's not what it says. You see what I'm saying here? Okay. So they're like, oh, this one we pronounce as Adonai. So they put the vowels on as Adonai, like uh-oh, I, and the Christians read that and they were like, Oh, we know how to pronounce this name. There are vowels, it's Jehovah, because Y becomes J through a series of translations into Greek and Latin and pronunciation times. Yes, yes, right. They are just Jehovah is just like J H like J or Y H.

SPEAKER_00 41:09

Bad translation of this.

SPEAKER_01 41:11

Yes, exactly. That's exactly right.

SPEAKER_00 41:13

Wow.

SPEAKER_01 41:14

Isn't that fun? Isn't that interesting?

SPEAKER_00 41:16

Wow. Also, I don't know if it's a good judgment for me to say a bad translation.

SPEAKER_01 41:20

Right, right, right. I mean, yeah, it's uh it's an interesting sort of historical thing. I mean, while we're here talking about the Y becoming J, like that's why in Hebrew a lot of the names are like Joseph when you're speaking Hebrew is Yosef. Right. Even by the way, for all the Christians out there, did you know that even Jesus is Yeshua, which is the same exact name as Joshua, by the way? Like Jesus is just a not mistranslation, but a different translation of the same name as Joshua. So anyway, while J becomes Y and they get Jehovah out of this thing because the W again is kind of like a W or a V, depending. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 41:58

I kind of see that. I see it now, right? It's like if the Y is just a J and you have the H.

SPEAKER_01 42:02

Yep.

SPEAKER_00 42:06

But the dicks. Okay, okay, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 42:12

So yeah, you could see how it gets there through. Sure, sure. Cause like, yeah, the the J, the Y and the J, it's like Greek gets in there, Latin gets in there, then pronunciation changes happen over time with those letters. So it's understandable, but like, yeah, interesting. Jehovah, they're just just a weird translation of these Yude Babe letters.

SPEAKER_00 42:29

So that's very interesting.

SPEAKER_01 42:30

The reason for not saying it in the rabbinic tradition is, you know, of course, reverence and making sure you're not taking the Lord's name in vain, as they say, or things like that. I personally like the interpretation that the nature of the divine is too ineffable to be pinned down to a normal name. You know, like there are these narratives where God is a character, so okay, he gets a name, but also the fact that it's never pronounced helps in my mind stave off the idea that you know, God would be a dude with a face in a story, acting and stuff, right? So it sort of like counterbalances that a little bit. And here's the other thing about this name. It's very, very cool, Jay, because all of the consonants in this name, like the yud, the he, the vav, the he, all of these consonants are quote soft sounds. So if you try to pronounce them without any vowels, you are basically just exhaling. It's kind of just like breath. And so that is obviously very poetic, right? A rich, a rich theological vein, you might say. The idea of God as breath, simple breath, or the essence of life. The rising, the falling, the coming, the going, or like life flowing through us. Yeah. Or the life force of the universe. Or even God as silence, right? Because you kind of can't kind of can't pronounce this name.

SPEAKER_00 44:10

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 44:11

God is, you know, purely air, purely spirit, purely nothingness, even.

SPEAKER_00 44:16

Do they uh is there something that connects that name to the wind also? Am I misremembering something about that?

SPEAKER_01 44:23

No, I mean that's a completely valid extrapolation of this same idea, right? It's just like the name of the wind. Air moving. Yeah. Yeah. It's just sort of air moving. You're not really voicing anything. It's just the sound of breath, the sound of air, the sound of nothing, the sound of the coming and the going, just sort of flowing, but but quiet, but silent. I mean, you name it, right? Ephemeral. There's lots of, lots and lots and lots of beautiful meditations on these ideas out there by a lot of Jewish thinkers and writers, because a lot of people are inspired by this concept of the name as being mostly breath or mostly nothingness, or just fully unpronounceable vowel sounds and air, you know, because they kind of are also just like sort of amorphous vowel sounds.

SPEAKER_00 45:10

Does Judaism have a concept of God being within all of us the way that Christianity does in some way?

SPEAKER_01 45:17

Oh yeah. Yes, yes. And from from several different angles, actually.

SPEAKER_00 45:21

Okay. Cause I really also like then tying it in through that lens of like we all breathe, right? God's in all of us if it's the breath, right? Like you're afraid someone is dead. What what's the best thing you could suddenly hear? Breath. You know what I mean?

SPEAKER_01 45:37

Oh, that's beautiful.

SPEAKER_00 45:38

Stuff like that. A baby when it's born. I mean, a baby's gonna cry, right? But it takes its first breath too. It's life.

SPEAKER_01 45:45

But it needs to take its first breath to do that. Yeah right. It's life, it's the essence of life. Laha'im. Lahayam. That's right. What's more, Jay? There's there's more. And this gets even cooler. The root letters. So in Hebrew, everything, all the the whole language is organized around root letters. Like every word basically has a root that's like three, usually three consonants, and then every variation of that word or words that come from that word, they're all like sharing the same root. So the root letters in this name, the Yudhe Vavhe name, they are connected to the verb to be. But it's in a way that doesn't cleanly map onto just one tense. So it's not clearly past, present, or future. It is sort of all three at the same time. Some mystical Jewish traditions translate the name as was, is, will be. So I think of it, and many thinkers think of it, as sort of the totality of existence and everything that ever was or currently is or ever will be, it's all God, right? Or like even the unfolding process of the universe itself can be thought of as God. There's actually a book called God is a Verb by somebody I forgot, you can look it up. But that's his thesis, sort of, is like God's not really even a character. Like and it's not just the universe, it's sort of the act of the universe unfolding. Sure, sure. Like the act of the universe universing. That can be one way to think about what God is or could be.

SPEAKER_00 47:28

So that's a God I can get behind.

SPEAKER_01 47:31

Yeah, exactly. Exactly. It's there's there's so much room for like jazz. Just jazzing on the idea, like, hey, what's the nature of God? What could it be? And it's just really cool that like the name, the name of God, quote quote, of this character in a story sometimes can like you can just pull out all these really rich ideas that it's like, it's nothing, it's everything, it's time, it's the unfolding of the universe, it's breath, it's the fabric of everything, it's the breath, you know, life spirit, the life force moving through. There's just a lot. It's really cool. A lot of different ways to look at it. Lots of people talking about this. I feel like I'm not even doing it justice. Um, there's lots of just great meditations out there on these ideas if you ever are interested. But it's cool stuff, right?

SPEAKER_00 48:16

Oh, yeah, no, I'm very interested. I I you know, I knew and it's come across, I've known like a little bit of this just from other videos and stuff that I'd seen, but never this in depth. And this is very interesting, especially that verb idea and the the past, present, and future.

SPEAKER_01 48:34

Yeah, right?

SPEAKER_00 48:35

I didn't know that. That's great.

SPEAKER_01 48:37

It is great. Yeah, there's a lot of there's another story in the Bible, you know this one, of Moses. Remember the burning bush? Uh yes. You've seen Prince of Egypt, right? Sure. There's this like, oh, it's such a cool, it's such a cool story. I don't know why that image, it's I find it so like spooky and compelling and like striking, right? The image of a burning bush, he like takes off his sandals because the the ground on which he's walking is holy or whatever. But like, you know, he asks this burning bush, like, who should I say sent me when I go back and I do all this stuff that you're telling me to do? And the response is like, I am that I am, or something like that. And it's just another instance of like we're asking this character in a story for a name, and kind of the most we're getting is like the verb to be, right? Like, even in the story where he definitely is acting as a character and it is a story, you know, it is still sort of like, ooh, mysterious, kind of just like being in essence. So that's great. It's like it's like sprinkled in in a few different places in a few different ways.

SPEAKER_00 49:40

I love that. I also, you know, thinking God of as past, present, and future, it's almost like, well, those are the three parts of like stories in a way, right? Like storytelling, which is also so interconnected to the idea of life and and one's life and the cycle of life.

SPEAKER_01 49:58

And it's the whole arc of the story. I love that.

SPEAKER_00 50:01

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 50:02

A rich banditap. You've got to write your own uh, you know, metaphysical meditation on on the ideas here. It's great. So, in connecting the unspokenness of the name to this week's episode, I was sort of thinking about the idea that and this is this is kind of squishy, so bear with me here. Explore this idea with me here. I was thinking about the idea that perhaps the very fact that people have refrained from speaking the name out loud is what gives that tradition power and meaning. Like it's nothing inherently special about these four letters on a scroll, right? Sure. Like it I I don't I don't believe at least that these four letters are like mystically powerful. Well, I mean, if you get into Kabbalah, maybe they could be mystically powerful. But you know, like it's just there's nothing inherent that I'm like, oh my god, I really can't say this out loud. Like I'm gonna get smitten, I'm taking the Lord's name in vain, right? Sure, sure.

SPEAKER_00 51:04

But I mean, let's hope not, I already said it.

SPEAKER_01 51:07

Yeah, no, you're fine. Well, you said one way of saying it. I mean, scholars are like, yeah, maybe it was that, but it's still a little shrouded in mystery because it doesn't have vowels inherently. You know, who knows? Actually, the one person who ever would say it back when it was said, or they, you know, somebody knew how to pronounce it, was the high priest on Yom Kippur. He would go into like the central sanctuary and he would say it out loud. And that was like the only day that it was spoken. So even back in the day when like the pronunciation hadn't been lost, quote unquote, it was still very much like people weren't saying it anyway. The fact that, you know, thousands of years there's been this tradition that like we're not gonna say that out loud. I feel like that, that history, that tradition, that that's what makes the idea, it sort of makes it a powerful thing, the fact that that tradition exists. It's like not inherent in the name itself, it's part of like this tradition of like not saying it. It's the not saying it gives it power. Does that sort of make sense? Yes, and it sort of forces you to reflect on, you know, one reason that I haven't said it in this episode, right? It's I like the tradition because it forces you to reflect on the unnamableness of existence. How when it comes down to it, you you can't fit any of reality, you know, mind-boggling reality. We both feel the same way about reality, right? Sure. The fact that anything exists, everything exists, everything that exists, like you can't fit any of it sufficiently into the tiny container of words.

SPEAKER_00 52:42

Yeah, true.

SPEAKER_01 52:43

And that's sort of what I think about every time I, you know, choose not to say it in a conversation that I'm clearly talking about it with, just because I think that's a really cool idea. So anyway, that treating the name like that, I think is sort of what gives the whole tradition its powerful interest to me. I like that. And you know, the only like usually with words, we like have to try to use our puny words to encapsulate reality. But like with this one, we're not even trying. We're not even trying to fit the universe in a box in this one. So, anyway, we're sort of walking the line here between voicing things openly versus keeping them unspoken, right? That's sort of the thematic tension we're getting at here. And how maybe the idea that the name itself has no inherent meaning and power, but it's this discussion around voicing it that does the decision whether or not it ought to be said out loud that might give it the meaning. You see where I'm going here? Because that brings me to Nick and the cactus. Kinda. So in reality, the cactus has no meaning.

SPEAKER_00 53:45

I was like, all right, when's it gonna come back to Newgirl?

SPEAKER_01 53:49

When's the when where does Newgirl fit in with this nature of God discussion? Well, the cactus has no meaning. Inherently, in reality, the cactus has no meaning. Not originally, at least, right? Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 54:02

But Nick voices meaning into the cactus.

SPEAKER_01 54:06

A meaning. He does say it out loud. Yes. And he voices it, he says it out loud. You know, he does the opposite of what we're doing with the name of God. He says it out loud, he says it to himself, he says it to the roommates, he says it to Julia's voicemail, and in doing so, he inadvertently gives the words power. As you were saying, self-fulfilling prophecy, it actually creates the meaning. Yeah. Him voicing it creates the meaning. That's a deep you know, it comes to actually have that meaning, even though it didn't at first, right? So it's kind of the inverse, I guess, of like not speaking the name. You know, if if not speaking the name is potentially what gives the name significance, Nick instead does speak his fears, and only then do they take on real truth, sort of. So these are the things I was thinking about. Another thing about unspokenness in the episode, the thing Schmidt and Cece have going is currently rooted in the fact that they are not announcing it to anyone. That's its whole thing right now.

SPEAKER_00 55:03

Which gives it power. Which gives it power. Which is why they're gonna stay together.

SPEAKER_01 55:09

You heard it here, folks. Write down that prediction. In fact, when Schmidt is given permission to actually voice it in the restaurant, it's really only because they're somewhere where no one in their community will hear it, similar to the high priest going into the innermost sanctuary of the temple on Yom Kippur to say the name. Like he can only do it because he went so sequestered in this room, in this place where no one else is gonna hear it, but he could speak it. That's what they did. They basically took themselves to a remote place where no one else will hear this truth to be able to say it. Jess, on the other hand, I see her as way over speaking things. She would probably be better off leaving certain things unspoken, I think. And maybe that's the lesson she needs to learn from this episode because she's like naming everything loudly and it keeps backfiring on her. So she she surfaces the bullying remediation in a really like upfront way in front of the whole class with like a song, and then it just gets mocked on YouTube. Like maybe she should have been more discreet in how she handles it. I don't know.

SPEAKER_00 56:14

Maybe she shouldn't have dissed her student as in the form of a bird.

SPEAKER_01 56:17

Yeah, probably that. Probably that. And when she confronts Brianna, it just gives Brianna more ammunition to bully her. In fact, actually, what I noticed is that the resolution to Jess's storyline is actually sort of grounded in unspokenness. Because to Brianna, basically, she's like, You don't actually have to like me, but just like quietly live with it is basically the message, right? Just keep quiet. Like, just keep it under wraps.

SPEAKER_00 56:40

And she also gives her a piece of paper and makes her sing with no explanation. Like, it doesn't need to be said. You know what I mean? It's like you understand it down.

SPEAKER_01 56:48

That's true. That's a great point. That's a great point. And also, also, Principal Tanya voicing that otherwise unspeakable truth, which we hope is not actually a truth, about the teachers being kid haters, is like a punchline to this whole theme, right? Like if we're talking about unspokenness, she like speaks that thing that you're not supposed to speak, and it's a kind of a punchline to it. So, yeah. The value of keeping things unspoken versus saying them out loud. I don't know. Do you have thoughts on any of it? Can speaking things or choosing not to speak things create significance that might not otherwise be there? Like with the cactus or like the other way around with the name? Do we wish Nick hadn't voiced his fears? I don't know. What are your thoughts on any of this? You have any thoughts?

SPEAKER_00 57:36

No, I mean absolutely, absolutely, voicing things can help bring things into this world in in very real ways, even not even just from like a mystic standpoint, right? But like from a very like real standpoint, like actually here here's a good aside. Uh Passover, I was telling some of my friends, like, you know, if you're in a room full of people who are all like-minded, but you're having a conversation about something, and you ever think that something maybe doesn't need to be said, maybe say it anyways. Like, even if you think it's something everyone already knows, sometimes just the act of saying something out loud can be powerful and meaningful because, you know, especially like if you're raising kids or something, like kids don't have years of knowledge they can draw upon to be on the same page as someone else, you know what I mean? That's a great point. And saying things out loud, right, can like bring knowledge into others, can recall knowledge that you already have in yourself, reaffirm beliefs and and the way you go about your life. And so, yeah, I mean, I mean, words are powerful. And especially I'm sure there's some brain surgeon or chemist out there or something who can talk about this the neuroscience behind, you know, when you like say something or think about something, how it reinforces those neurons, which then I don't know, maybe like makes you more likely to do the thing later or you know help bring something into reality. So bring something to fruition.

SPEAKER_01 59:01

Sure. I love that point about the kid. It's like, yeah, there's a there's a real place for being explicit about things. Like yeah, yeah, speaking things. Yeah, even if everybody knows, yeah, I like that. And it does have power. And also sometimes it has bad power if you're making self-fulfilling prophecies.

SPEAKER_00 59:20

Right, right. Although I guess this whole time I've been advocating for speaking the thing and having power in speaking the thing. So I should flip it and say, not speaking the thing also has power. Because I guess we were talking about unspokenness.

SPEAKER_01 59:34

Well, Ray, that's sort of the question. Cause yeah, like the the episode and Judaism's treatment of the name are sort of coming at it from different angles, from different assumptions, at least on these particular topics.

SPEAKER_02 59:45

Sure.

SPEAKER_01 59:45

And I think both are true. I think both are, I think what you're saying is, you know, you can quote manifest things with your words, and I think that's legitimate because you're, you know, you're speaking it into existence, as they say. And also there can be power in selectively withholding things. I mean, I know I talk too much, and I think it gets me in trouble. Like at work, I think I could do to just like keep my mouth shut a little bit more, listen more, like control my emotions more, and not necessarily say everything that comes to your mind, because that's also a stereotype, right? Like if you say everything that crosses your mind, that crosses into negative, you know, a negative stereotype a lot of the time. So anytime I can actually keep a rein on what I'm saying and not say, you know, not speak without thinking, that also is powerful. I've also been in situations, I mean, maybe you can relate to this, when it is just like you and a really close friend, or you know, you and a romantic partner, and you both just like are sharing this experience where you both just know, like you know what the other person is thinking. But you're not high. But you're not high.

SPEAKER_00 1:00:51

And then you pour the beer out into the cactus.

SPEAKER_01 1:00:54

That's right. That's right, that's right. But it's, you know, sometimes it's like you just look at each other and you know you don't even have to say what you're both thinking. That's also really powerful, right? I mean, there is also, I also I I talk too much again, so I'm often saying the thing out loud, being explicit about it. But like I've also been in situations where, you know, like you're you just you know that you're both on the exact same wavelength and like just leaving it sitting in your minds and your hearts without even having to voice it is like a real, it's like it, it compounds the importance of the moment. Cause first you're you're both feeling whatever you're feeling or thinking whatever you're thinking. And then on top of that, the fact that you don't actually have to say it, but you both know that you guys are thinking the exact same thing, feeling the exact same way about it. Like it's it's like too big for words, but you both have it in your brain anyway. Like you're you're communicating and sharing it, even though it's too big for words, kind of like the name, I guess. Kind of like fitting reality into a name. It's too big. And so instead of trying to put it in the container, you both just know, like, oh, they they get it right now. Like they know exactly we're experiencing this together fully, and we don't even need to say it. And that also is very, very powerful.

SPEAKER_00 1:02:05

In many ways, it feels like that could be summed up almost by one word that I'm not gonna say, but I'll say it's the opposite of hate in many ways, right? And what is what is God, if not the embodiment of the thing that I'm also not gonna say, that I'm sure you, listener, can think of what the opposite of hate is.

SPEAKER_01 1:02:26

Yeah, that's really nice. I really like that a lot. Yeah, I like that a lot. Not the other word I could have used.

SPEAKER_00 1:02:36

I see what you did there.

SPEAKER_01 1:02:39

Oh, that's great. Well, thanks for talking about this, Jay, and thanks to our listeners for listening. If you'd like to get in touch with us, you can at JewGirlpodcast at gmail.com. And we invite you to join us next time when we will visit the fortune-telling cactus and ask our futures.

SPEAKER_00 1:03:01

Join us next time when the high priest goes into the inner sanctuary and instead of saying the name, walks in and just finds Shemai standing there trying to sell the high priestess the blender. Now, for only four payments of$19.99. You're gonna love Tuzu Zim!

SPEAKER_01 1:03:20

Two for two suzim!

SPEAKER_00 1:03:22

For two suim, you can buy this blender.

SPEAKER_01 1:03:24

Anything can be a milkshake, that's right. Join us next time when we talk to a kid-hating principal over Chinese food. American Chinese food.

SPEAKER_00 1:03:33

American Chinese food. Join us next time when Jehovah ends up also being a mistranslation of Science Fair.

SPEAKER_01 1:03:42

Science Fair. It's all a big misunderstanding. Join us next time when we will go viral on YouTube because Jay is starting his men's only mahjong league. Justice for men, right, Jay?

unknown 1:03:58

No, no.