UI/UX vs. Frontend: Do We Actually Need Each Other? | Pixels vs Code

In this episode of the Pixels vs Code series, host Oluwole Majiyagbe sits down with UI/UX expert Afuwape Abiodun to answer the provocative question: Do Designers and Frontend Developers actually need each other?

We dive deep into the classic clash between "Designing Intent" and "Building Reality." We discuss the friction points, why handoffs can be so frustrating, and how having different skills but the same goal can either make or break a project. If you are a frontend dev tired of impossible designs, or a UI/UX designer tired of devs ruining your pixels, this episode is for you!

🎙️ Guest: Afuwape Abiodun Follow him on Instagram: @jega_jnr and on Behance/LinkedIn: Afuwape Abiodun

🎙️ Host: Oluwole Majiyagbe Follow Inside the Stack on Instagram/Thread: @insidethestackpodcast

💡 Don't forget to like, comment, and subscribe for more deep dives into the tech industry! Let us know in the comments: Are you Team Pixel or Team Code?

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Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:00

If you are doing something, you should enjoy it. UX, it's how it works. How it works. Like the engineering, how it works. And I would say UI, it's how it looks. That's the simplest way you could break it down for somebody.

SPEAKER_00 0:14

But how much of um great design is taste and um, you know, your gut feelings versus research and data?

SPEAKER_01 0:22

There's something we call um user research. During those process, we make some, you know, we get data from the users.

SPEAKER_00 0:29

How do you know a design is really good?

SPEAKER_01 0:33

Like, you know, when you get that feeling that it's done, a design is never done. That's one thing I know. You keep it trading and it's never done.

SPEAKER_00 0:52

Hello guys. Um, so I was scrolling through the internet and I um came across a video. Let's watch it together. So then we'll come back and we'll discuss about it. As funny as that video is, it is actually a reality in the lives of both the designers and the uh developers who are converting the design into code. So that is why I decided for this series we'll be doing a developer versus designer um kind of topic. So I'll be speaking with a couple of designers, I'll be speaking with a couple of developers, and um, you know, bring everything together and see where the thin line is. What actually causes the misconception between designers and developers? What do developers expect from the designers and what do designers expect the developers to do? So join me in this series, designers versus developers, and um if you have any questions, post it in the comments, and I'll be sure to get right to it. Hello, guys, and um, welcome to another episode on um Inside the Stack. Uh, I'm your host, Ulwale Majiyabi, and um today I have with me in the house um a UIUX uh developer. So, for um this for the next series, I would be speaking to product designers, UIUX um developers, and um front-end developers to see how they work, to see where um there are gaps, to see where there are loopholes, to see what actually goes through the mind of um of a UIUX developer when a front-end developer tells him or her this this can be done. So for the next course or for this for this series, what I'll be doing is I'll be interviewing a couple of um, I'll be speaking to a couple of UIUX developers and also front-end developers, then maybe one or two episodes I'll bring a UIUX or two and um a front-end developer or two. So we would have like a cross-examination to actually see um what actually happens when you know these things occur, when a front-end um tells the UIUX that this design is not worth it, or when frontend does something that the that the UIUX guy did not um implement or did not design, you know, things like this. So welcome, Mr. Um Abiodun. Yeah, so um, can you please just tell us a little bit about yourself?

SPEAKER_01 3:28

Okay, um, good afternoon. Um so my name is Afwakwe Abiodun. I'm a product designer. Um, I would say I like solving problems because that's what we product designers do. You know, solving problems, they teach our problems. You know, we we turn ideas into digital products that solve users' problems. You know, that's basically what we do.

SPEAKER_00 3:46

So you mentioned something about um solving problems. Of course, when in the tech space, when we say solving problems, the first thing that comes to our mind is writing code, you know, developing platforms to solve these problems. But what actually made you go into the um design space?

SPEAKER_01 4:04

I would say for me, because everybody has their own story, but for me, um I I I won't say I jump into the design um space right from start because I started with something else. You know, it was a kind of windy road. I didn't just go direct into UIUX. Um, I think I started with desktop publishing. During the days of our desktop publishing, you know, I like you know doing things. If you tell me um plane is moving towards this direction, I want to see what will happen if we move towards this direction. I'm always I always have this curiosity in me. So, and during that time, uh when I jumped into the tech world, I started with front end. Yeah, I started coding. That was where I started my old tech journey. I started coding, I did PML, I did CSS, did PHP, and a little bit of JavaScript. And uh you might be wondering why did I divert from that side? And it's because I believe in one thing if you are doing something, you should enjoy it, not just you know, just doing it for doing it. While I was coding, I was not enjoying it. I was just it's as if I'm forcing myself, I was not enjoying it. But I got introduced into design uh by uh uh by my brother's friend, I'll put it that way. You know, they just brought it on. I said, Take a look at this thing. You know, there's somebody in my office that does this, you know, just give it to us and we develop. I was like, okay. And I started you know checking it out, and I just said, Whoa, this is something we've been doing from way back. It's just that more like the advanced one. And I I I picked interest in it and I started learning about it. And I saw that while I was doing this thing, I have so much fun. You know, I I'm in charge of things. I I I make the calls, I call the shots, like I tell how things want to go, you know, I make the you know, the main decisions. So I just when I'm designing, I just it's just fun for me and I enjoy it.

SPEAKER_00 5:47

That's nice, that's nice. All right, so um what or how do you explain when um someone thinks design is just adding red here, blue here, one line here, another thing here, you know, who thinks it's easy. You know, we let's let okay, let's look at this from the business perspective now. You know, we have a lot of um clients who would come to you and be like, Oh, I want to design this for me. You give them your quotes, and you hear, uh, is it not just to put box here and another box here? It's not like it's the full product. You know, people who trivialize um DIUX. Like, what do you think about that? Or what response will you give them?

SPEAKER_01 6:31

Okay, um, for me, is this UI UX is beyond just putting colors and shapes together. It's beyond that. Like I said earlier, it's about solving problems. You know, we we we get what the user, like the challenge the user user is facing, and we solve it through the digital products. That's what we do. It's beyond just adding color, mixing colors together. You know, we are making key decisions here. We are we are solving somebody's problem. You know, it takes a lot. The way I see we UIX designer, our product designer, is we are like a superhero because we are solving people's problems. We solve problems, and to solve somebody's problem, you need to first understand their problem before you solve their problem. So that's what um uh people don't see. They just say, okay, you guys just take this, add this, add this together. No, it's beyond that. There's a lot of things going on in the background that uh the client or a business owner does not actually see.

SPEAKER_00 7:24

Yeah, I think I I I agree with you because number one, um, one of the reasons why I also went into the back end is because um I'm not very good with colors. I get I don't if I should design anything for me, I would just mix blue, red, purple, black, and everything. Like just put everything together and go for AI2s these days that at least help us out a little bit. But you know, I've I've never really been a design person um from the onset. So, you know, seeing people actually I'm envious of people who are who can who could do this. You know, before we had UI UX, we only had front-end developers who could um you know just merge things together. We have front-end developers who could visualize the design, convert it to code, and boom, we are we are good to go. I mean, I was always envious of people like that. I cannot I cannot mix colours together for the life of me. I cannot, I don't even know where one bop should go. If we give me something like that, I'll maybe I would give you maybe a 19 a 1980s page or something, you know, just to just to showcase what I've honestly I've never really been good at um design. So um yeah, we've been hearing terms um UI and UX. So can you what's the difference between UI and UX? What's um what are the should I say the intricaces that are involved? What is the background story? How important is UI? How important is UX? What's what is the synergy between the two of them? You know, then um let me put it this way. If you ask to explain UI UX to like um school children, you know, to high schoolers, people, um, children in high school, you know, how how would you explain it to them for somebody, or let me put it this way, for somebody who does not really have an idea of what UIUX is, someone like me, yeah, let me put it that way. Somebody like me, how would you speak about or how would you explain what UIUX is?

SPEAKER_01 9:24

Um I would say UIUX in a simple in a simple way to explain to somebody that has no knowledge about you know what UIUX is all about, you know. And I would say UX, it's how it works. How it works, like the engineering, how it works. And I would say UI, it's how it looks. That's the simplest way you could break it down for somebody. It's just like, for example, you are trying to you know build a house and you started you know putting your foundation, you started putting your uh cement, you know, blocks and everything. That's what we call the the UX. You know, that's those are the things that users do not see. The only thing the user sees is the beauty, you know, after you've done with the whole work, you started painting it, started adding chandelia, you know, adding a lot of stuff to it. That's what the user actually sees. So UX is the backbone, you know, backing it up. And there is one thing UX cannot survive without UI, and UI cannot survive without UX. You need both to create a good product. That's just the basic, simple way to understand UI UX. Both is both is important. But you see, I would say UX is really important because it's the one that is really solving the problem. UI is just there to beautify things, UI is just there to beautify things, you know. That's where we come in with the colors and everything. But UX is how you move from point A to point B in the product. So it's the one doing the main work. That's the way I would put it.

SPEAKER_00 10:54

Yeah, that makes sense. I think um UX is more of user experience, what they are experiencing, how easy is it for the for the application to work? Okay, so I think you've answered the next question. I was going to ask UI versus UX, which is more important. So you've said it, UX is definitely more important. So to everyone, viewers at home, please. Remember, in your design, UX is very, very important. User experience, you know, what your users are experiencing. So yeah, let's so let's let's take a case study now. The um I think TikTok was the first application actually started with Swipe. Um, swipe, or is it swipe up or swipe next? I don't know. I think it was TikTok or was it Instagram? That um, you know, initially we had just next buttons, previous buttons, but at one point we started getting like swipe up to view the next, swipe up to view the next um video, swipe up to view the next video. So I know there was there was um there was a record of people spending way more time on the application when that particular user experience was implemented compared to previous times. So, yes, user experience is way, way important, like very, very, very important. Right, so um we all have artists, definitely. I might like um dark, of course, as um as a developer, I love dark and cool colors, you know, dark mode, dark mode, no, I'm Batman, kind of those kind of vibes, the Batman kind of vibe. Um, but for some people it's actually like flashy colors, you know, blue, red, green, flashy colors. But how much of um great design is taste and um, you know, your gut feelings versus research and data.

SPEAKER_01 12:45

So, in that aspect, sometimes, you know, um your gut just kicks in and you know, you use your uh uh how would I put it like emotion to make some key decisions? But I would say data, research and data is really important. You work with data, you work with facts. There's something we call um user research. During those process, we make some, you know, we get data from the users. We get data as numbers, we ask a series of questions from the users, and we get back. Uh that's where we we that's the process of we trying to understand the users because for we to come up with solutions, we need to understand our user face. We need to understand them. So I would say user, you we need to work with data. Every every key decision in a design needs to be backed with data. I can't just make this decision for you know, they say, okay, I just feel like we should do this. No, no, you don't just do that. You might end up just you know, you know, uh running the old products. That's why if we are designing, we keep we keep iterating. We iterate a lot. No, you'll have thought, okay, I'm done with this design, then you take it to you take you you take it to the user to test, and you get feedback from them. So that's why we need to do our research, we need to work with data. In case you're going to defend your design anyway, you have data to back it up. But the reason why I made this decision was because the uh so amount of users said they want it this way. Okay, they are facing this kind of challenges. So that was why I made this particular design. That's why I said data is more important than you just using your guts to make key decisions.

SPEAKER_00 14:16

Yeah, that makes that makes perfect sense. It makes way, way more sense. All right, so um whenever you're done with a design, like whenever you're working, when how do you know a design is really good? Like, you know, when you get that feeling that it's done before you know, before giving it out as feedback. Of course, let us let us look at a landing page, for example, for your company. You've designed it, you know. Before you even give it to the clients, you would first look at what you've done, and then when you are okay with it, that is when you would give it to the client. Am I correct? All right, so but what does done feel like to you? You know, how do you know a design is actually good?

SPEAKER_01 15:03

I would say this before I go on with and answer the question. A design is never done. That's one thing I know. You keep it training and I treating, it's never done. But for me, on my own end, I would say um, you know, uh, after the whole thing, based on maybe I've done my research, you know, the data and everything, I got everything, and I'm able to come up with a design. And I feel like, okay, I've been able to solve every aspect of problems the user, you know, actually bring. I feel like I'm done. You know, I've able to, you know, tackle every area of it, of the or the of the of the um the the feedback I get from the users, or I've been able to target every angle these products, you know, based on the the data I have with me, based on users' problem that I've been able to gather, like the users, the problem they are facing. That's when I feel okay, I'm done. Then after that, I I I take it out for iteration. And during those processes, you feel like you you are done. Then after you take it out for iteration, you see that user service submitting feedbacks. Even big products up till now, they still iterate and add a lot of things. Let's use Facebook, for example, even uh um WhatsApp, they keep adding things you know, based on user feedback, you know, following the trend and starting to mix things up. But for you a designer to say it's dumb, that means you've been able to solve every aspect of what needs to be done. That's just it.

SPEAKER_00 16:27

What brings me to the main focus of um this whole series? You've worked with front-end developers, definitely. Um, what's what's um you know, when your design lands on um a developer's desk, or when you give it to a developer to design or of uh a developer to work on, what do they get wrong about it mostly? What are those little little things that look like you know, when you see it, you'll be like, This is not how this thing is. And you've actually been saying it, saying it over and over again, but it seems like for every time you make the design, or any whenever there's a new project to work on, another developer still makes the same mistake. What do you think it is?

SPEAKER_01 17:14

Okay, um, in that aspect, I would say it depends on the kind of developer you're working with. You know, when I started my whole design journey, uh you know, I was working with a set of developers, I believe some things are not achievable based on what they tell me. So when I'm designer, I try as much as possible to bring it down. Like so something I feel is very because I've I've done front-end before. I know you know I didn't spend so much time on it. You know, I did it for a couple of, let's say, I think one year or so. So I believe there are some things that are achievable. Then I believe um, so once developers say, I cannot do this, so I'll be like, okay, maybe this thing is not achievable. Maybe because I'm just a designer, that's why I'm doing this. You know, then I worked with a certain uh a certain developer. Let's say I work with a company that's the the boss will tell me, if I go to him and say, developer is not able to achieve it, he's telling me no, that's not possible. Everything you've put in here is achievable. There's nothing in this world that cannot be done. That's the way he tells me, and I'll be like, okay. Then I'll take it back to the developer. After pushing the developer back and forth, back and forth, they will eventually get it done at least. Let's say it seems to be like 90% correct. And that changed my whole ideology of something cannot be achieved. No, there's nothing you want to build that cannot be achieved in development. So you'll be the one to push the developer to the to the limit and tell him, Oh, this is how I want it, and you have to get it that way. And it's the chaos of the developer, it's in the big chaos. You go, you guys have to fight, so you have to deal this way. After your whole labor of working day and night to achieve something nice, and developers brings the whole thing and be like, No, this is not my design, this is not it. So it's been it's it's it's it's been really chaos. But I would say you have to just you know, there's nothing that cannot be achieved. That's just it.

SPEAKER_00 19:00

Okay, so tell me a story. Um tell me about uh certain scenario that went completely sideways. You and uh the front-end developer, maybe a designed a design that you did, and uh the front-end developer just like took it sideways. Just you know, tell us tell us the story.

SPEAKER_01 19:20

Okay, I would say when I was working on an e-commerce, yeah, an e-commerce product, you know, I designed the entire it was not even the user side, I would say the admin side. I was working on the there were some filter buttons I added, you know, on your dashboard, there are a couple of data that have to be there, a couple of charts and everything. And after I designed the whole thing, you know, the whole thing was flowing and looking very cool and nice. And the developers submitted the old front end thing and was saying he was not able to get the real charts, and he just used the old let's say nine kind of charts thing. It's like I spent an entire like time, you know, perfecting this thing, make sure the whole thing is looking, you know, the color is blending and everything. And you just came with me with a skeletal look of a chart, and I say, Yeah, that's what you can hand, and started no, the chats was not even looking very nice. We started going back and forth, and I at some point I just I started doubting myself, this thing is not achievable. But I was like, no, I've seen people you know design this thing, like even crazy, more advanced charts that people have you know built, and I was like, no, this is not possible, you have to design this thing, and we keep going back and forth, and it's it was really chaos for me, you know.

SPEAKER_00 20:30

So, like just only votes you know, like how many weeks or how many months did you do the backhand for the back and forth?

SPEAKER_01 20:38

Went on. I was I'll not say weeks, months, because telling me it's not possible, and after we argue it, maybe we have we argue it in a meeting, and we say, Okay, let me see what you can do about it. That you will go and come back. Then after you go and come back, it's still the same thing. So, guy, it's still not the same thing. Hey, can't I see that yes? You know, I just if I should look at it, there's no difference there. But what I'm looking at, there's you know, there are two different ways. It's been really curious working with some developers. I'll just put it that way.

SPEAKER_00 21:10

Okay, um, so um, what is that one thing that you feel like you put in your designs? Users don't really see it. I mean, there are times that they might not even use it. Not not that they don't use it, of course, but not that much. But the minute it's not there, the the whole design will look somehow. Like it is it is definitely going to be noticeable. What is what is that?

SPEAKER_01 21:41

Um, there are some things you put in your design and that it you know, we'll call it uh I'll call it um aesthetics that are not really, really, really that important, but you just need to put it there to have a good visual look for the users. Users will not might not pay attention to it, they might not pay because basically users nowadays they don't have time to be screening so much. They don't even care about your visual look and aesthetics of things.

SPEAKER_00 22:03

Just to get it to work.

SPEAKER_01 22:05

Just to get to know what they want to do. They just like I want to transfer money now and I start looking at one button that is floating. No. My main function is I'm able to send the money and the money gets to where it's going. You know, there are some things like that, but mostly it's basically basically usually the visual look of things. You know, adding the floating animations, especially. You know, you adding animations, a lot of animations. Users don't really pay attention to it at times. No, you you might be looking at it from your own view as wow, this thing is making it look nice, you know, the whole thing is bouncing. But users don't care. I'll use an example for PayStack. When you want to transfer and you know the payments gateway, and you say, I've sent the money, the loader that is loading. Do you know you can actually use your mouse to drag it and the thing will be bouncing? But how many users pay attention to that? I just want that money to go and the payments is successful. That's just it.

SPEAKER_00 22:51

You know, I I'm just I'm just learning about this now. You mean the best you could bounce the yeah, that loader that's going if you drag your mouse on it and you know dragging it to be bouncing it to be following your mouse.

SPEAKER_01 23:02

Um definitely does not have no no no no that thing is actually user not get you now. Yeah, that's what my money sent the transaction successful. That's what it costs.

SPEAKER_00 23:13

I mean, imagine me paying for uh um child egg. Um so by the way, childcare child deck is a food delivery app in Nigeria. Uh, for those who don't know, it's actually Nigeria. So imagine me paying um ordering food for childcare. I'm hungry, and uh you know, I've made this payment through Paystack. Well I who would want to look at the old uh anyway. I think it's it's it's nice. Thank you, thank you for at least now. I know in the process of waiting for the transfer to go through, I can at least keep on playing. You know, it's actually very similar to this um Google Chrome's no internet um page. Yeah, some people do not know that that dinosaur that actually shows is actually a game. Yeah, people don't know that that you can play waiting for um Chrome to you know to come back. Yes, so it's actually it is it's actually a game. I think I found out I found out that in um after was it not after three years or two years when it came in? It was actually a friend that also told me. So since then, when I'm waiting for the internet to load, I just you know play the game, then when the internet comes back, it automatically it automatically.

SPEAKER_01 24:27

I will just off my internet, disconnect my network, and play that game a little bit. It's kind of fun.

SPEAKER_00 24:33

Yeah, it's fun, it's fun, it's fun. So, what's the highest score that eventually ever got in that game?

SPEAKER_01 24:38

I think um the highest score was around 1000 something, because uh especially if it goes to the fast-paced one that you have to bend down, bend down, go up, bend down, go up like I think I've also got into one seven thousand pluses.

SPEAKER_00 24:53

I'm definitely going to add a poll here. I'm going to add a poll here for this one in the video. Asking users to enter just their highest score. Okay, so um, for developers who want to design better, at least for somebody like me, who they who can't really design for the life of it, uh, who can't design to save their lives? God knows. If I'm actually design something now, okay, maybe with Canva AI or Cloud AI or Codex, I don't know, I might do something really good. But right now, my design skills are mush. But what is your advice for a developer who wants to design better? Like, advise me. What do you think I can do to get better at um design?

SPEAKER_01 25:43

Um, for for a developer that is trying to get better. Uh I I do say this: you need to understand principles of design. That's the first thing. You need to understand that, you know, the basis, the principles that guide design, you know, the key decisions. We know we don't just put buttons for putting sake and put colors for putting sake. There's like there are rules, there are laws that guide that. So every developer needs to understand you know the principles of um of design. That that that's that's what I'll just advise. You need to understand those principles, you know, know the reason why. Sometimes some day you actually work with some developers that have those knowledge and they will tell you, do you think these things actually really, you know, what if, what if, what if this they challenge what you've done. And I love those set of developers, you know, they challenge you. Like, okay, you go back, you know, to your drain board and you know, just mix things around. But I'll just say every developer should just understand the principles of design, and that that's just it. That will really help.

SPEAKER_00 26:35

Yeah, that's that's nice. Okay, um, definitely going to pick up a book on that the principles of design. Wow, nice. Um, so what tools do you actually use?

SPEAKER_01 26:46

Okay, um, um, I'm going to start with the history aspects of this first tool I started with that I believe is the best. No, let's say it's the best. I started with Figma at first. But later on, you know, I when I started following the tutorial online, I moved to Adobe XD. Because then Adobe XD has a lot of you know prototyping, you know, more than Figma. You know, Figma then was still, you know, kind of old. It's not like old, you know, they just came in new. And Adobe XD is in the picture already, and it has a lot of animation, beautiful prototyping. And I would use Adobe XD, then I would be fled like King. Then when I started you, I started using Adobe XD, I think, for like uh a year. Then I started seeing what people are doing with Figma. Because if I design with Figma, then my design is always looking heavy, very heavy, like it's not looking fine. But Adobe XD, everything is looking slick. Then I started seeing people using Figma, you know, doing that same thing I'm doing with Adobe XD. I'm like, ah, is there something I'm getting wrong? And I I I that was then I knew I need to, you know, work on myself. Then I had to switch back to Figma because that's what's trending at the moment. You know, you have to follow the trend. So I use uh Adobe XD then from Figma to Adobe XD, from Adobe XD back to Figma. And I think Figma right now is still uh the best. You know, there are other tools out there that you know that are way now, not say better, that are that doesn't that doesn't actually require front end. We have Fema and we have um Webflow. Webflow came into the picture before Framework. That one is you know code, you just you know do your thing and just push to life. You don't need to code.

SPEAKER_00 28:15

Thank you so much for that. Um yeah, so um let us look at Figma now. You know, in Figma we have um the design system, we have dev mode. I think we have um is it slide or what is the there are a lot of tools in Figma today. What do you think is like which tools do you think is the real like that genuinely helps designers? And what tool is just theater that is just DN? You know, tools that maybe once in a while, maybe once in two years or three years, that is when you might have a need to use it compared to like a UIUX designer. What are those tools that you feel like a UIUX designer should know today and should use?

SPEAKER_01 29:04

Okay, um there's one thing about Figma is that uh they have so many plugins, they even allow you know outside plugins, you know. You know, as uh somebody that could just come there and create your whole plugin and just put it to the Figma community and people can start using it. There are a lot of plugins on the Figma community, so even Figma itself, you know, I discovered lately that Figma also have removed background on their own. But I've been used to uh remove PG using that plugin all this while, and their own remove background requires you require you to be on the on a on a on a paid version for you to be able to use that. So there are so many tools on their paid version that there are plugins in the free version, like free plugins that you can use to do that. So people don't usually you know stay with their paid version, like people don't really see the need to use the paid version, and people just stick to the plugins. Um you know, they have this image quality uh for you to bring in your image, you remove the background, you can increase the quality. Figma has those kind of tools, you know. For you, you know, you increase quality, even the Figma make thing. You know, for now, for the free version, you can use Figma Make to build you, but you'll not be able to copy it and edit it. But if you're on the paid version, you'll be able to copy it and bring it to your Figma board for editing. But people don't really see the need to use that because there are a couple of plugins, you know, talk partsy plugins that you can use to do that already. So I I I would say I don't really use much of Figma tools. I use uh plugins most of the time. I use plugins. And for uh I think one of the things I loved about Figma is the dev mode for the developers. It's really, really helping for the like very easy for developers to you know just you know build things. You see every aspect, you know, the the the the size, the color, the padding, the margins, and everything. The dev mode is really, really like I think that's one of the things I love most about um Figma. But apart from that, for the developers, for me as a designer, I just the plugins, that's just it.

SPEAKER_00 31:08

All right, so um take me through like what happens between um you know, maybe a client coming to you or someone coming to you telling you that we need a screen for this, maybe a landing page, a screen for a landing page, you're just using a landing page for an example. And um, when you finish the design, what actually happens? What is your workflow? How do you go about the whole thing?

SPEAKER_01 31:34

Okay, um, if a client comes to me and be like, okay, I want to build this, um, uh first thing I need to do is I have to understand what the user actually wants to build first. Just like you said now, landing page, let's say a business comes to me now, they want to build a land. Let's use an uh uh let's use a how would I put it? Let's use uh let's say a dispatch, a logistic company comes to me for they want to build their website. And after I get the whole thing, I just I need to first understand the kind of things they do. A lot of I need to do my research, you know, look at uh their competitors, the the flow of things. I need to really understand how things work in that industry because I've worked on a couple of projects that I have no knowledge about. That's why research is a key thing in this whole thing. Research is really, really, really a big major thing. You need to know how to do research is you know, you need to first understand what they want to do. They can't just you know, they give you I want to do this, then you'll just jump on Figma board and start designing. You won't you won't even get it done. That's just it. You need to first understand, do your research, you know, do a lot of um um um uh uh sketch a lot of you know wireframe, do a lot of sketching, you know. There's some you sketch it out, you take a look at it, is this thing really matching what they want? You know, for a website now, it doesn't really need more of um research, you know, just need to you know understand what they do, their services, you know, get a lot of information from them, you know, look at their um look at a lot of inspiration, people that are also doing that particular kind of things, you know, you get inspiration from there, you know, go online, pay interest, get information. But in the case of you're building a product, that's when you need to do thorough research, you know, understand what the user really needs. You know, I'll give an example. I worked on a post-nata care uh app that requires, you know, it's it's it's for nursing mothers and newborn mothers. And I have no knowledge about that. I mean, you know, I'm a man. I don't know what's going on in that stage, I don't know what's going on there. So I need to you know conduct interviews, meet the people that actually really want to use the products, you know, ask them one or two questions. What are the things they are facing? What are the challenges? Then after that, I need to you know collate everything together and come up with solutions. You know, that's why I said, you know, you a lot of things go on in the background that people don't usually see, which is the research aspects, the sketch aspects, the iteration, you know, brainstorming. That's really the key thing that is going on in the background that people don't usually see. They just believe you just go there and mix together, and that's what the clients are actually paying for. You know, your time to research and then uh the brainstorming, the iteration, and everything. That's what they're actually paying for.

SPEAKER_00 34:05

What do you think about AI tools for design?

SPEAKER_01 34:11

Okay, people people are kind of like, okay, AI is taking jobs, AI is taking, it's going to take our job, you know, it's going to take away design. People can actually use AI to design now. But what I would tell them is AI is not taking anything. You see, we still need that um um insight from users. You we need that um itation, print storming sessions, they they are really key because AI is working based on the data he has gathered online. That's what people don't realize. He's working, but based on the data he has gathered online, and all those data are gotten from where from what users have put online, that's just it. And AI is just here to make our work faster. It's not like he's he's doing the main work. Uh, people say, Okay, if a client comes down and says, Okay, I want to do a project, I'll say, okay, I'll use AI to generate it. Yeah, go ahead, go and do it. Um, one thing you didn't realize is this is not your field. Even though you want to use AI to generate it, there are some key um uh words that you need to put in, there are some structure you need to lay down for you to get the perfect results, which you that you know if you are not into you know the whole UIUX thing, you don't have knowledge of design, you will not get it. So AI is just here to make our work faster, it's not taking away our work. That's one thing I want uh people to know. Because I once uh I once asked an I one I had an experience regarding that. A client said, Okay, uh, I can just use AI to generate it. I was like, Okay, go ahead. He went ahead to generate it, you know, with AI and gave it to the clients. And the client was like, No, I don't like this, no, take it back. He had to bring it back, and I had to also increase my fee because okay, that time the the fee that time was like and this period I have to increase it because you are bringing something else for me. I I had to over I had to charge him extra. And he told me now, he told me one sentence that day, show me the reason why AI is not taking your work away from you. And I also had to prove that to him. I had to make what he has generated with AI look better, and that's one thing you know. We even AI generates for you, even we still need it a little bit of touch, even as a developer, you generate with AI, you still need to put your if you don't understand what's going on there, you just be looking. So you go out on the two. AI is just to make it to make our work faster.

SPEAKER_00 36:19

Yeah, yeah. Yeah, that's that's also one thing that I always tell people you don't let AI do the job for you, you need to do the job. AI is just there to help you. So the job that you're supposed to do within five days, you can complete it in one, two hours, is to make you more productive and way more efficient, but it does not take away what you know. You don't go into a field, you don't know, and just generate something. You you would you you you would fail like spectacularly, you would fail spectacularly. I've had someone I've I've had someone also generate like a full full app, and I'm like, no, whether you like it or not, yes, you've generated something, you've generated like um, should I say like a foundation. To you, it works. I'm not a designer, but personally, I can see some loopholes in this thing. There are some things that this thing still needs to add. And what fun thing about AI is when you offset all the jobs to it, by the time you are bringing it back and asking to do like to generate generate on it again, you know, based on your prompts or whatever, it's it gets from bad to worse. So whether so whether you like it or not, you'll still need that human element. So AI is there to make you more productive, not to steal your job. AI AI is not stealing anyone's job. The thing there is, are you productive? Do you know what you're doing? Are you well grounded in your field? If you are not well grounded in your field, then it is at that point what you can do, AI can also do. So you need to showcase or you you need to show something that shows that you are a master in that field. What is that one skill that is so underrated, but you feel like every designer must have?

SPEAKER_01 38:08

Okay. Um the one skill I feel every designer should have is I would say communication. I mean, people might be wondering what does communication have to do with design or not? You should communication is key. I I learned about that um a couple, I'd say two years ago, when I was to work with a team during one of these boot camps. I've never, I mean, I'm always in one man's squad. I was to work with a couple of you know other designers on a particular final project. That was when I saw that communication is really key. Because you know, you you you guys are like eight in numbers, you can't just be the ones who make the key decisions. You you have your own opinion to yourself. You know, want to work on a website now. I come, I say this is the the thing. And you know, you being a team lead, you know, communication is really a big thing for you. I had a lot of it in doing that process of doing the whole thing. I fought, let's say I fought with my fellow designers. Uh, some people will feel like, hey, why do you want your own design to be out there? Hey, why are you not picking my own design? And I'm I I find it very difficult. I I find it difficult to explain to him the reason why we are picking this particular person's design over your own. You know, as a team, we go at the everybody go and design your own landing page and bring, let's, you know, you know, bring up your ideas, let's brainstorm. Everybody submits their own, and we started looking at it, and we pick this person's hero section, we pick this person's um call to action section, pick this person's header, and you you are wondering why are they not picking your own because you feel in your own opinion, that thing you did is the best. So, communication is is is a big thing for me. It's a really important thing that people don't notice. But even apart from you communicating with your fellow designers, you should be able to communicate with developers as well. And so was as clients as well. Communication is really a big thing when it comes to designing. You should be able to communicate, uh, explain to clients why you're making these particular decisions. Try to convince them that, oh, this is you know, tell them things, advise them. Oh, this is why this one needs to be like this and this. So I feel communication is a big thing.

SPEAKER_00 40:09

Well, um, thank you, Mr. Biodun. Thank you so much for your time. Thank you so much for the insights, thank you so much for the um advice. Um, I really appreciate it. So, please can you just please tell our audience where they can find you? You know, your social media, your I don't know what tools, I know for developers now. I'll just tell them find me on GitHub or on GitLab or something. So I don't know what tools do you guys use to showcase your work to the world.

SPEAKER_01 40:36

We have um Beyance, we should case that you can find me on Beyonds after workbear at Beodon, also as well on LinkedIn at the same thing after workbear beodon. And you can also find me on Instagram, JGA underscore junior, as well. So, but mostly most of our work are only on Beans, and we have personal portfolios.

SPEAKER_00 40:55

All right, so guys, I'm going to link his um profiles on B Hands down below so you can um check it out, check his workouts, and if you like what you see, follow him and uh you know reach out to him, he's uh he's a nice guy, and uh whatever questions you have, he will definitely answer. So, um, thank you so much, uh. We really appreciate it. I appreciate your coming on um inside the stack and um sharing your insights. Yeah, so um, guys, we've come to the end of this session. Thank you so much for joining us. And um, yeah, so if you've not liked the video, please do like, share, and um subscribe. Um yeah, so we'll see you in the next video bringing on another um UIUX developer to share their insights and um their thoughts. So see you guys later. Bye.