Inside the Mind of a UI/UX Designer: Pixels vs Code Ep. 2

Welcome back to Episode 2 of the UI/UX vs Frontend series! This time, host Oluwole Majiyagbe sits down with UI/UX expert Kehinde Faaruq Azeez to flip the script and dive deep into the creative process from the designer's perspective.

What does it really take to craft a user experience that developers can actually build? We discuss the realities of the design handoff, the dreaded "pixel-perfect" myth, and how designers really feel when developers push back on their creative vision. Whether you are a designer trying to get your team on board, or a frontend dev trying to understand what your designer is thinking, this episode bridges the gap!

👇 What we cover in this episode:

• Intro: Welcome back to UI/UX vs Frontend!
• Meet Kehinde Faaruq Azeez & his journey in UI/UX
• The biggest mistakes developers make when looking at a Figma file
• Is "Pixel-Perfect" actually a myth?
• The most frustrating parts of the design handoff
• How designers and devs can finally speak the same language
• The ultimate UI/UX pet peeves (Note: Be sure to update these timestamps to match your final video edit!)

🎙️ Guest: Kehinde Faaruq Azeez Follow him on LinkedIn

🎙️ Host: Oluwole Majiyagbe Follow Inside the Stack on Tiktok/Instagram/Thread: @insidethestackpodcast

💡 Don't forget to like, comment, and subscribe for more tech deep dives! Let us know in the comments: Designers, what is the one thing you wish frontend developers understood about your job?

#UIUX #Frontend #WebDevelopment #UXDesign #TechPodcast #InsideTheStack #UIUXvsFrontend #SoftwareEngineering #TechCareer

Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:00

You can't use the word beauty or beauty in design terms. It is not allowed. Every single design must be understandable, easy to use. Mostly I am always with my pen or pencil because I need to sketch, because ideas flows most in a while. Let me start with the AI part. I'm not saying I am promotive, but at the same time, I it is something that I can entertain or I am entertaining at the moment. The way I I perceive the AI within is it is a professional assistant. It is here to stay. I will just need to adapt to it. If you say using the AI is being lazy, then you are giving yourself a tough time.

SPEAKER_02 0:54

I'm your host, Oluwali Manji Agbe. We'll be continuing our series from last week, Pixel versus Code. We'll be looking at the work ethics, the workflow between UI UX developers and front-end developers. I have here with me the house, Mr. Kenny Farouk Aziz, who is a UI UX developer. Mr. Kenny, thank you for coming on the show.

SPEAKER_01 1:17

All right, thank you for having me. Thank you very much. I'm glad to be here as well. So my name is Kendi Farook Aziz, just like you said, and I'm a product designer. Yeah, I've been designing for the past 45 years. I actually had an origin from graphics and broad design before getting into the UIS fit. So simple introduction about me is just that I address solving problems for user. And that was part of what actually led me into UI designer. Rather than being a random graphics designer, although graphic designer are not random, also, but there is a big difference in graphics design and UI designer. You actually know this is a particular problem that you need to focus on. And that is what actually led me into it. So I basically enjoy solving problems for user. So that's just short introduction above it.

SPEAKER_02 2:16

Oh, thank you, sir. Um, definitely in tech, what we do is we solve people's problems. That is that's just the main truth about tech. Exactly, sir. But explain it to me. No, I don't know if you watched our last episode. I mentioned here that I am not really a design person. So I'm telling you also here, I am not really a design person. I don't know how to mix colors together. I don't know what uh how what will what blue will do with uh what blue color would work, what color would work well with blue. So you guys even articulate it color as long as it's colors, my brain just it just shuts down. Like I don't know how to mix colors. I don't know how to, you know, looking at what works with this, how to do this. It's one of the main reasons why I'm most I mostly tell people that I'm more of a back end person, you know. Give me a problem, give me something, and I can build an API around it that would make that work easier. But you're not telling me to do the front end part, the UI part, the user interface part, like from the onset of my journey in tech, I've doubled a little bit in front end, and I can say I am not built for it, I am not cut out for it. So, in your own words, like how do you explain to someone who thinks design is just you know making something pretty or just makes it collocks?

SPEAKER_01 3:34

Okay, I would say design is not just pretty. Yeah, we all know that okay, we see designs that are have good aesthetics. That's what we actually call it. Because saying we can we can't use the word beauty or pretty in design terms, it is not allowed.

SPEAKER_00 3:52

We have the idea of I agree, I I agree.

SPEAKER_01 3:55

Wow, we have this is nice, this looks good.

SPEAKER_00 3:57

This is the idea of using our own thumbs. I use it.

SPEAKER_02 3:59

I'm only yeah, so now I'm knowing can't use it in design. Oh, okay. My bad.

SPEAKER_01 4:05

I hope there is no penalty of the notes. So same design is just pretty with design, and for you to have just like your thumb, pretty design. For you to have a pretty design, there has to be something behind it. What do I mean by that something behind it? It has to be understandable. Every single design must be understandable, easy to use. Because, okay, for instance, now me building okay, let's say an application after the whole aesthetics, the whole pretty beauty it has, then the simple thing about okay, the single login button, you are unable to use it. It does not function well, it malfunctions. That design is not good to go, it won't fly. And that causes frustration on user's end. Because as a user, you expect that this thing should be what functional enough to be stressful seamless as much as you want to enjoy your products, your um software, or whatever it is. So design is just pretty, it has to be something that is easy to use for users, because that's the main goal of all designers. And I believe that's the same thing as for the developers also, because I collaborate with developers and I know when we try to balance everything, you want these things to be functional. So design isn't just about beauty, pretty. If it is beauty and pretty, just like most people say on their own late man, if it is that way and it does not function, it doesn't create the the good atmosphere, it doesn't create the balance or it doesn't meet your expectation. So it is it is not a good product. And just like a business owner, also me creating a solution or for my business, and after doing the whole thing, uh my users do not enjoy this app or my product. So the end goal, there is there is nothing, there is no impact on my business. Because as a business owner, you want you want users to use also um your uh your products after that, and you want to benefit from it, you want to profit, you want to make profit from it. So if designs are just beauty, if it is just pretty, as people say, without good functionalities, without you easily using the app seamlessly, then that is not that's you can't even time it as pretty because whatever you mean pretty, it is totally perfect. It is totally perfect. So design is just about pretty of it.

SPEAKER_02 6:30

Nice. Okay, so um correct me if I'm wrong. Yeah, no problem. UI stands for user interface. Yes, correct. Yes, UX stands for user experience now. Um, for the purpose of our viewers out there, can you just like tell us what the distinction is between UI and um UX? What is the difference? You know, we have UI UX developers. Yes. I know there is, I don't think we have anything like UI developers, then we have something like UX developer.

SPEAKER_01 6:55

We so you forgot in short, it is designer, not developer. UI designer and UX designer. UX designer. Oh not developer. Sorry, sorry, sorry. I I stand to be correct. So actually, we have people that based on UI designs only because it is two distinct uh distinctions. Okay, they serve different purposes, and we have people that based on US designs. Um, instead of using US designs, some use uh US research researchers. So the difference is in this you are a US designer, they don't want to trouble for themselves. What do I mean by they don't want to trouble for themselves is that if you have if you say you are using the two terms to promote yourself, the advocate yourself, then that means you are into the research part because getting a brief, there's a difference between getting a brief, understanding the brief. Try to uh make your research because you need to understand the user. For using a particular product, there is different user for a particular product. So for you to start creating sketching, you need to understand the inflow. You need to understand this particular okay, this particular product is serves this particular people, this set of people. You need to understand everything about CDA research data. You have to collate all these things. So that part is the US part because from your research, you get to understand, okay, these users they tend to not like this thing. That means you are getting their experience already, you are extracting their experience by collating those informations. But as a UI designer, you don't go through that process. All you do is collect the whole thing and start your work straight away. So they go into design straight away. Okay, so um, sorry. Yes, sir.

SPEAKER_02 8:41

That means all the um wireframes, they were ones that they draw with pencil or that they use the what's the name of this site? Is it file? Sketch. Yeah, sketch.io or something. I don't know. Just sketching placement and the likes. That's that's U UX.

SPEAKER_01 8:57

It is part of UI works also. Uh and part of US works. The way it works on the UI US end is you are able to, you've gotten the data already. So all you just need to do is okay, sketch it out for you to be able to analyze, refine on it before you start your UI process. Before you start designing. But as a UI designer, what because we are different, we have people, most people they work with companies, they work with individuals. So if you are working with individuals, most individuals might not know the process of the wireframes. But for companies, they want everything to be in process. So they need to give them a sketch of what you have in mind or what you are proposing on that particular product. So the wireframe is for both parties, uh, not for a single party. But for UI designer, they don't take a pen and start jolting about user experiences or all the like. They don't collate data. All they need to do is after they've gotten the brief, then you just go straight into the aesthetic part of the design. Either they run the wireframe just to work through the copying they work for about the process, the flow of what the design is all about, or they go to into the iFi design straight away. So the main difference is US designer they make research about users before getting into work. I know that UI also doesn't make design, but they don't go deeply as a US researcher or USA designer will actually do. So UI designer does pick up their mouse, pick up their laptop, they start working. So they handle this design straight away. The process that a US designer will take, okay, for instance, I say I got I got the gig and it says UI designer gig. For as US designer, they expect me to go ahead to make a little brief, a little collection of data regarding the users that are going to use that product. Compared to, okay, they have their whole documentation already, and what they need is for me to execute, and that's the work of the UI designer. Because you have the whole documentation, you have the old data that you were supposed to go out or make a research about, so you just execute the whole data. So that's the difference.

SPEAKER_02 11:10

No, that's the so it's looking like a really, really, really complex system, a complex process. So we will just see we need an app for um so so and so I know for backend what we do is like you said, we we also do our research. We also do our research. You know, we try and find out okay, what are those fields that um what are those data that you guys need to collect? What are those data that you guys need to see? What are those indemotent um fields? What are those um read-only fields? What are those fields that like I'm talking from the back end perspective now? So these are what we would use to create our database, our tables and the call in the uh uh tables in the database. These are what these are the things that we would use. I'm trying to paint something here. So um, yes, through the research is also how we know the rules, authentication, authorization, what are you supposed to do? What are you not supposed to do? You know, things like that. The kind of authentication we would use, whether it's just email, password, login, or whether we are going for SSO or what kind of um authentication, you know, those kind of those sort of things. It's also the part the parts where we will now decide, okay, are we building for mobile, like APS or websites? How do we handle pagination, pagination per page? A system or a website can say handle so-so-and so pagination, but on the mobile, based on because of the uh so we need to know what data you know on the table for websites is different. Yes, exactly. But on mobile, the same data that the table can take on the on the website might not be the same data that's going to be simplified exactly. So we need to look at the unnecessary um fields that will not be sent back for to the mobile for you know those sort of things. So can you just please walk us through? I've I've talked about the process for backing. Walk us through the messy uh the messy betweens between someone coming to you that I need a screen for this, and uh you know, you finish a design.

SPEAKER_01 13:15

Okay, there's always ethic behind it, also. We have edic also. That's that's that's something we have edict because as a business owner or a company or individual who comes with a gig or working in a corporate world where there's always work on ground from by um by the companies co-work they get, and for you as a designer on the on the team, so we get edicts also, just like I briefly mentioned earlier, and this is part of the work of the US end, which is the US designer, because the first thing is you can't just give me a brief and uh expect me to produce immediately. So the messy part most people do not know. What I mean by the messy part, just like mention is I might actually just take a walkout particularly on the brief after I read them because I need to read, digest, understand what this thing is talking about. For that particular product, I might just need to take a walkout and look around, get to feel the nature and see what might inspire me. Those parts the business owner doesn't know, the corporate world doesn't know because we need to gather information, enough information before we can just say, okay, we make an output. Without those things, we only we are only going to base on assumptions, and assumptions will always be a back and forth issue, which on the log group will frustrate me, designer, and we also frustrate the company or the business owner, because we will not align. There will not be balance, there will never be balance. So the first thing we do is after getting the brief, particularly myself personally, I tend to make research because before I could descend, because before I could execute, even there's nothing I need to there, there won't be anything for me to execute without getting information, better understanding about that particular product. For instance, now we have WhatsApp, we have we have we have different fields. For instance, okay, let's say for a logistic field now, Logitech now, for a logistic now, I got a brief to design um an application for this field. I cannot say because I've been using WhatsApp, I've been using Instagram, I've been using different types of things, then bring that ideology in working on a logistic application. It doesn't work.

SPEAKER_02 15:41

But for real, for real, it can work if you if you if you build a chat, but a chatbot is different.

SPEAKER_00 15:50

You cannot you cannot track others. That's a different idea.

SPEAKER_02 15:56

If the logistics are I want to pick up something from me, blah blah blah. What's my other now?

SPEAKER_01 16:04

You cannot track like yourself because this is the art process. So we are calling this, okay. 5 or 10 percent of what we use then might just be integrated in that, but they all do not at it together. They not attacked. So, what we do is I make my research, gather information, and I need to understand users. That is very important. Because the end goal of me as a designer, the end goal of the business owner or the product is to satisfy the user. Because it is when users are satisfied that the business owner can make your own profit, the company can grow. Because if users are not satisfied, your products will keep lagging and there will be no one on it. So the messy part is we go we go through rigorous research because we need to understand our design um users. After that, after collecting data, then what I do next is just try to sketch because mostly I am always with my pen or pencil because I need to sketch because ideas flow once in a while. My brain bring it into the inspiration. It comes for you. So when you get this version, uh you do not note it down, you do not sketch it out straight away, you tend to forget straight away because everything is about process. But immediately you are able to sketch it out, even from sketching. Um at times when after sketching, when I go through my work, go through the wireframes to iFIS, at times I I I tend to fall back to my sketch. Because if there are some things that do not flow after the whole IFID process is done, I need to check the foundation. What was wrong? What needs to be structured properly for me to get the balance? So we need to make research, sketch, draw our wireframes because wireframes is where we try to refine a bit before we add the whole color, the whole functionalities, which is in the i5 state. So part of it is we research, sketch, we finish the work, and we have to gather information that means we give to users. It is when users have tried the product that we gather feedback to be able to refine. Because when we refine, that will be the final state. Okay, after this refining of the thing, we then push our product out or add it off out to the business owner for them to develop or launch their product. It is later after the product is live, then we can always gather little, little feedback that need to be trait on. But most important is we have edits because we need to make our research. We need to get things right from the start. So it is not that I just get brief and I give you output. No, there are some things that have done behind also, which is part of making the research, sketching, and trying to hold down, tie down that inspiration because once it is it is off, then it takes longer time also to finish up because if inspiration comes at once and you are able to execute at that moment, it it gives you longer time to get that type of flow back before you're able to execute. So that's that's one of the things that we get as designers. Okay, so um another question.

SPEAKER_02 19:20

We now have a lot of AI tools for design. No, we have Canva AI, we have uh Claude, Clod Design, um, we have Sish. Like a whole a whole lot of AI design tools. So you see people just coming up with different different designs with uh no prompts. What do you feel about all these tools? Like what are the um so apart from the AI tools, we also have some tools also in uh Figma. You know, Figma has had I don't know how many years Figma has been now, but Figma has at five, six, seven years ago, it's not the same Figma of today. Yes, that's correct. They are there's a lot of new features, new features, new tools. So, what are those things that you feel are so useful today for developers, and what are those things that you feel like it might be ahead of its time or it might fizzle out so fast because it's not something that people use a lot or often?

SPEAKER_01 20:23

Okay, so let me start with the AI part. Regarding the A part, I I am not saying I am promoted, but at the same time, I it is something that I can entertain or I am entertaining at the moment. What I'm entertaining is I am actually using it.

SPEAKER_02 20:40

Of course, if you are not if you are not using it, you see. I liken I am I I liken this AI tool, this AI revolution to um driving. Now, the reason why I said I liken it to driving is because at the time when my dad got his car, when I was at least a little bit old enough to remember some things, it was one thing that stuck with me. You know, then in Nigeria, there was nothing like auto auto drive at all. It was always manual. So when the manual cars came, I could remember my dad. I don't know who bought an auto car. Maybe he was the one that wanted to buy a car, that the car dealer brought an automatic car to him. He said only lazy drivers use auto use autocars. That auto and autocars are not as strong, they are not as uh versatile as uh manual as manual driving. But look, I think it was like five, about five, six, seven years down the line, he got his first autocar. And he and honestly, he really, really loved it, so it was more or less like. Like, okay, this thing came at that time. Everybody was used to something else. There will definitely be different opinions. But the fact is, that auto drive, that auto uh automatic j it has come to stay. And that's where we're going. Whether we like it or not. And now, today, to today, right now, give me 10 drivers, and I can tell you that maybe only two or just one of them will know will know how to drive manual. Everybody is on automatic. Automatic JS system today. I understand this, and that is just so I feel like it is also the same. So if you are not using AI tools, of course, you lack you, you would, you, you will, you will lack, you will lag behind. You will not you will not be productive, you will not get things done. But then the same way I like it to drive it.

SPEAKER_03 22:50

Exactly, sir.

SPEAKER_02 22:51

Now, because we now say there is automatic driving, you know, we don't need to press down the clutch, change the JS and the likes. Someone who does not know how to drive, someone who has not gone to driving school, should now go and start driving. You know, it poses danger to life, poses danger to property. Also, also. So that was why in one in one of my episodes, I specifically spoke about it. That do not um throw away the basics just because you know how to prompt. Exactly. There's a there's a lot of vibe coding going on going on out there today for the like you see different different applications, you see different things that people are doing, people are like vibe coding, you're like, wow, this is nice. But go to the code itself. They themselves don't even understand what is going on. They don't know about happy parts, they don't know about edge cases. I'm talking about the back end, like I'm speaking from the back end type parts. What happens if somebody hijacks the JWT token or a token, the authentication token of another user? How do you mitigate against it? What do you do with rates limiting? You know, things like that. Sorry, I'm speaking of it. I know this is this is the this this is a design episode, but I just had to like keep it in there. Like you, if if if there is anybody not using AI today, that person is not being productive.

SPEAKER_01 24:11

Whether you like it or not, it is he or she is not being that's just the honest thing because the way I I perceive the AI with thing is it is a professional assistant. Yes, that's just it because there are things I need, I have a short deadline for. Although using the AI so just like you're liking it also, too, who doesn't know how to drive and just went ahead, or who doesn't know about manna or all through it and just went ahead to do what pick a key and start driving. You actually go wrong. Yes, you will virtually go wrong no matter what. That is how we see it nowadays now. Seeing people use HBC just the way they are, they like the judgmental of it, the the design judgment of it, it is without value off without even being told you would know that this is wrong. This is not a general work. I still had this discussion with a a friend of mine yesterday. Let me say a colleague, a senior colleague of a thing. He was just like, okay, a friend, not a senior colleague, it was a friend. It was like he he was he was trying to um bring an attention to a post of mine that okay, can I put him through also on a design? I was like, you have a data analysis, this feed also design of a scene. It is not a joke. So it was just like I was not telling him that we have a lot of AIs now that people are using it. Was like, there is a big difference between learning and professional and using the thing. If I wanted to use it, I'll delve into it directly. But I know there is professionalism. So it was I I understand, yeah, I understood his perspective also because he knows there is need for the foundation, the basic. Yes, without it, that is why we are having a lot of shit that people are doing online now. It is cheese for me because you can't just pick up a phone of yours or a laptop, and one thing is prompting, prompting it it deals with your intelligence, your intelligence. Because if you are not intelligent and you are you you actually don't have any basic idea about it, you will be unable to get a perfect prompt to get good output. Yeah, because when you for instance now, okay, let me just say okay, uh you pick up cloud, you just write anything, cloud will give you an output, but that output eventually, how will you be able to process it? For everything as a designer, we only have a say to it. If I use this button, I have my reason for using the button. If I use this test, I have my reason for using this test. If I use this color, I have my reason. And that is what I feel is essential. It is because it is efficient enough. Because if I'm able to defend what I have done, then there won't be an argument, an argument about okay, this design is having issue here and there. Because I'm able to defend, I'm able to process, talk you through the process for you to understand that this design actually has a say to it, it has a definition to it. People can't just come out and say, Okay, let's just rubbish this application. So the AI to is a professional assistance in the sense that you need you have a tight deadline that you need to meet up. Because I won't lie to you, most designers, when you give them walks, okay, even everybody in this tech feed. When you have when you have a deadline of two days, it might be the very day that you pick up your work.

SPEAKER_02 27:29

Even before the advent of AI, that's that's how we that's how we've been honestly. Even before the advent of AI, that's right.

SPEAKER_01 27:35

That's how we so that way it's actually um speed up your work. You're able to extract it, then give your judgment on it. That means you need to refine a trade on it for you to get balance between what you have done and what the AI has rated for you. So for me, I feel the AI of it, it is it is here to stay, and we just need to adapt to it. Yes, if you say using the AI is being lazy, then you are giving yourself a tough time because it is really a tough time.

SPEAKER_02 28:06

It has it is I just it is here to stay, it is not going anywhere unless we do unless we just want to um be, should I say, unless we just want to kill ourselves or we just don't want to be truthful.

SPEAKER_01 28:17

It's just a matter of pretentious because if you don't want to accept it, unless we are just being pretentious, it is it is here to stay already. You don't want to accept it, you are just wasting your time because it is it is something, it is a future already. Yes, this is a future where we are.

SPEAKER_02 28:30

Everything is like it's been it's been built into almost everything right now. Even in driving, yes, we have the features here.

SPEAKER_01 28:37

So why can I say okay? And all these all these um cars, everything, they are all software that are built. So we need to adapt this thing and allow it to enable us to work better. That is just it. Because it helps in the long run, no matter how it is, it actually helps. Because imagine me asking it to just give me a sketch or a wireframe for me to work on. That way it has easy my plan. Yeah, after the whole, I went ahead to make documentation, gather, collate data, and you see expects me to now take four, five, six hours, seven hours for me to sketch, for me to turn my sketch into wireframes. But once I have been able to do what, give this thing my data, my rough sketch on the paper, then ask it to do us, to give me the wireframes. That way it has give make my work easier instead of me now starting, sitting down and start drawing my rectangles, my shapes, my frames to create wireframes. So it is a professional assistant, just like I said, and it's easier to stay. So we just have to adapt to it. Yeah, so that's just it.

SPEAKER_03 29:44

Nice.

SPEAKER_02 29:44

Thank you. Thank you so much. All right, so moving to the next part the pixel versus code. Tell me about a time when you know you finished up with design, a UIU design, and you handed it over to a developer, and then you know, everything everything was scattered. Actually, okay. Let me just say this way what uh what is that one thing that you feel like developers don't get okay when you design for them.

SPEAKER_01 30:19

Okay, so I guess that's two things. I will answer the two things. So let me say false thing about the hand office miscommunication. Okay, um, when there is no clear communication and collaboration between myself as a designer and the developer, there will always be arguments, there will always be issue as we always have. It's that communication. Okay, so as as as something similar like that happened. So if let me say about one month or two months ago, I was actually to work with a friend of mine also on the project. The the brief giving, like the brief giving was not clear enough. We have a short a short brief. We went ahead to uh do our necessary things, research and the like. We get the work done. Thankfully, it was not through me. I was not the one that brought because the developer brought the work. Okay, so we don't know the business owner that's getting the problem and started from. We do not know what the business what business owner wants. Developer brought a brief, a documentation for us to read, to process, and turn into design. We did that aware. He did not create the opportunity for us to meet with the business owner to know exactly what the world wants on this product. The whole design has been done, completed, handed off. Then only done, he said this is not what the business owner wants, then what is what what would be the solution now after the whole idea, the whole stress that is where it is. So if there is no clear clear understanding about the brief, knowing fully this are these users, um there are users that honestly like WhatsApp, and there are users that do not like WhatsApp, they prefer another platform compared to WhatsApp. So their experience is different. It is surely different. You cannot say, okay, because WhatsApp is doing well, you want to enforce that on this particular um set of people, users that don't like that do not like the WhatsApp. So the experience is different. So we need to understand, after giving a brief, we need to make our research, understand, okay, this is what the user wants, these are their experiences, this is what they have been using before. And if we are coming with this sort of a thing, they need to be able to do what interact, okay, be able to understand, okay, from what we've been using before, we have a better option, a better solution that will ease our daily use. So if we are unable to digest that to understand and give solutions to the user, there will surely be an issue. So that was actually what happened exactly. He it didn't give us, he didn't create the chance for us to make the business owner to get his own insight, full insight. Okay, as a business owner, you must have seen something before you want to invest in it. So you need to have to understand some users maybe around you that actually prefer that actually prefer something compared to what is happening, what is trendy, what has been used. So if we are able to gather that information directly from the business owner, there won't have been any issue. But because we unable to do that, we are done with the work, submitted to you as developer to work on. Just for you to walk through the business owner before you start developing, then you came to us, returned it whether that the business owner do not. So that is that is really wrong. So communication, it is an important and essential thing.

SPEAKER_02 33:59

Um thank you. So one question also, based on this um discussion. Have you ever come across a developer that after you've designed it and they will tell you that what you've designed cannot be done?

SPEAKER_00 34:16

I don't know how to do this.

SPEAKER_01 34:18

It's just complexity. I feel that is one thing that we both parties need to always understand. So as designers, we tend to give enough aesthetis the pretty time to our works. We want the users, okay. It is not for our own sake, also. We just want we don't want users to just pick up this uh product or application or whatever it is, look through it. Okay, the functionality is there, it functions where it is seamless, but what will keep them engaged, that is what we are, it is beauty. That's that is what we are always after. Okay, instead of people just using this uh software, this application randomly or anyhow, you want them to be engaged, you want them to always return to feel calm that okay, this thing it is actually uh good enough, it is pleasing, it is appealing enough for me to use, apart from the functionality that makes it seamless for them. So if we are able to do that, then it is a success for us, and it's a success for the proje and the business owner also. Because if there is a return of users on up on the product often, it makes success for him, it makes profit for him. So that's what we are always after. But I understand that times that we designers also we tend to over work, we overdo things in terms of maybe complex uh animation, and just like the developers also, some developers also are mean also. What is that? Why they say they're using it? Little spacing or micro interactions, they will tell you they want to want to do, and it is a lie because I know some will feel like okay, we just don't want the edict of this thing. And imagine after me going through the edict, it's an SSK now.

SPEAKER_02 36:07

Why will you say that the space is too much? I mean, the space is too don't leave it like that. But it's just space now, it's just space. Okay, okay. I said I should be as wide as this. I mean it like this. You say it's too much. I mean, like you say it's this one.

SPEAKER_01 36:27

Please don't don't need to be balanced now. Because those front-end developers they like stress a lot, like they like stressing designers a lot because the most time they do all these ones who give more.

SPEAKER_02 36:39

Let me let me flip that question back to you. Are you sure it is the front-end developers that stress the designers? I know the designers are stressing the front-end developers.

SPEAKER_01 36:47

Okay, they are there for the designers also that they like they love a lot of work. They love to give developers edict, also. Because imagine there are some welfare that I see lately now. Okay, the complex animation itself, I myself cannot accept it because it's it is unnecessary. It is not a good use experience for users, although there's a term that says every user's asset for their own product. Every user has set for their own software or whatever it is. Because for that for those companies or websites to have been built that way, that means they have their targets, their users, the target users that they want to them to access their software. But it's just too complex to me. Having a complex animations on Website, it's it frustrates users at times because myself going through the website, it frustrated me. I got frustrated. I dumped it. That is one thing. I can never go back to it. Can you say like it's it was overdesigned by the user, by the designers? That was what I was saying. That there are some designers also that go extreme, and this is always unnecessary. Just like we have the um Apple glass movism of it now that is trending. Apple has done that in their own sales to do us to advocate for their products, but now we see a lot of um companies also integrating that idea. There's this glass morphism of it, or all what they do is about glass and there's transparency of maybe the white on it. It is not necessary to be on all applications on all because imagine as a user now, I have I I use this certain application. Okay, for instance, I guess WhatsApp also had the gasomorphism immediately, also. I guess they have it, but it's the way it was done, it's well, it is not the shouting one that most people do, but I know it is gasmorph again, gasmorphism because I can see other things under it. So imagine me being I've been using the particular products for a while now, a particular application, or or yeah, because it is mostly on applications. I've been seeing a particular application now. I adjusted to it already. Then only suddenly you adopted another idea, which is not necessary, which I feel it is not important for you. There are other features that you're supposed to work on. You left that aside because it is a trendy um a trend, a trend. You feel okay, once you bring it to your own software, your own application or so, you are good to go, you are good to fly. But that way, it has frustrated me also. Imagine having a grassmovism on a test, they are tests under the glassism or the umba, they are tests under it, they are tests on it. That way it is confusing me because I can see through what is behind. Because it's not all designers that are good at it, and it's what the designer communicates to the developer, the developer will work on.

SPEAKER_02 39:40

Well, I want to check that what's up, whether it's true. I I I I I think so. I don't know if I've updated lately. The nav, I'm using I'm using dark mode.

SPEAKER_01 39:50

So oh even with that mode, I can I can see it's studio, it's it it was in the mode because I use that mode on my phone also. The um the navback at the bottom, I can actually oh you can see through what is behind, and it's for I'm just noticing it. I I when they when they update updated it, I was like, this thing is not necessary because you are confusing me. I have bosses in a bap for me personally.

SPEAKER_02 40:14

I feel like it's because you are the designer. I have if if it's not competition to it, I will I will not even know it is DM. I mean, I've been using WhatsApp now for for a while, and I know that this was not done yesterday.

SPEAKER_01 40:25

It was not done two months ago. It actually isn't just noisy, that is why you do not notice it compared to what people are doing. Uh-huh. But people have seen it. I know this it is not necessary because there are other tests beneath the NAVA, and it is confusing me. Imagine me want to want to select one of the home buttons or other icons and mixing up with reading tests or that it again. So I don't feel it is a good idea, but most designers just want to enter, go into the trendy, the trendy things, and just let it apply.

SPEAKER_02 40:58

I can see it on the notification. I've been using the notification. I can I saw it there before, but I think I saw you calling my attention to it has made me see it even more.

SPEAKER_01 41:06

Those things are not necessary. So those are bad, I feel designers also. And at times I feel designers also do not understand the constraint, technical straits, the technical constraint, the timelines of the developer also. Because after the whole thing now, I like that so when you now give it the whole complex animation, you give it to the developer. Your boats, we have six months to finish the project. I've taken two or three months to work on my design because of the flashy and complex animation and the time without understanding the process that the developer will go through also after giving the work after three months. So I expect the developer also to do was round up within his own three months. Meanwhile, what me and I have spent a designer months on, I cannot expect him to just write the code within that three months. So those things, the timeline of it, and I don't feel all designers understand. It is only people who had collaborated enough with developers to know kill when you've when you guys have argued a loss that you fight the loss. Because there's there's a deadline to meet.

SPEAKER_02 42:18

So you have to you have to deliver something that is um 100% user experience, like um good whose user experience is good, but at the same time, must not be too complex for the developer to achieve in order to meet the time. So you need to understand that you are working in a team, you are also working with somebody, you guys all have a deadline. You need to so you guys already need to have that communication, it is already important. So you guys need to have that communication ahead before ahead of time before so as it is for developers, so it is also for leaders. So we have to just collaborate. I actually resonate with that. So it is sometimes it is not about the fact that I this cannot be achieved. It is not about the fact that I can't do it, but it is mostly about the fact that I cannot achieve this within the time frame, within the time frame given. So you need to tone it down a little bit. That's that's that's it, sir. That's a nice take. Thank you, thank you so much. I I really I really love that love that insight. I really love that insight. All right, so for um a designer or a developer, let me let me use a developer now, for maybe a front-end developer. For a developer and also a designer who wants to design better, what advice do you have for them? Okay, for a developer, okay.

SPEAKER_01 43:49

Let me start as a designer. I have a designer group that belongs to MCC Rabble. There's a particular one design community, yes. So We tend to at times, although we always have arguments also between ourselves, design our we have to develop also in our design community. So at times we argue at times who who overdrews among who overdrew among between us. Okay. Is it developer that overdrew or is it designer overdone? But um in the short run, we feel okay, we both need to understand ourselves. If it is little parts of development, it is not that I need to develop, I don't need to write a single code, but the little technical constraints, I need to, okay, this thing can be achieved. So maybe little understanding about the development part. I just need to do it to be able to digest and understand for me for to even ease my own stress, also, because by the time I am done with my whole work, I hand it over to the developer, then he could the retailer and say, okay, this cannot be done. This cannot fly. I am going back. That is repetition of work. One needs to have gone straight line. I have to reverse back, rework it before giving it to him. So I just feel little knowledge about development. I once, okay, I once write code also, but I did not go further beyond HTML and CSS, I ran away. So I can say little of need, um, we just need to get that little knowledge about development path. Even if it's just a technical part, we just need to understand. Although I still struggle with it, I do not know it all because we are still working, we are still in progress of all these things. So I just feel we designers also just need to be able, even if it is, it has to be during collaboration with developers, just as I asked a few questions. Hey, how do you think we can achieve this thing within this time? What are the things you feel I should not do? What are the things you think is okay for us to work on to fly? So even if it's not that for me to read the whole book about development, I just need to do understand the two things. And for developers also, I feel understanding the user, which is the US part. Because there are developers that there are some developers they don't send because they feel it is not necessary. So I have used a particular button. It is because I have gone through my own research. I know this is what these designers, uh these users are familiar with. I made use of it. But you as a developer, you went ahead to use something else. I have my own reason. Your own reason is not efficient enough. You are just like, okay, it is not necessary. Just your own thoughts, just my own thoughts. But me that have done that have made use of that, I have gathered, code, I have created gathered information, data before I could have used that particular button. So that way I feel design and developers also just need to learn about the US part a bit. So just know kill everything, the end goal of a UR designer is for the users to be satisfied, and which I feel the developers also should be able to understand and know kill. These users they need to do as be able to use this thing seamlessly. The experience, the user experience should tally with what other products, what they be familiar with on other products. So I don't feel developers also need to just, even if it's just little or piece of it, just understand the user's part of the design. The white designers also just need to understand the technical technical parts just for products to fly easily without arguments, causes of um issues here and there.

SPEAKER_02 47:36

Nice. Thank you. Thank you so much, Mr. Faru. Okay, so um also for an upcoming someone who wants is having interest in design, where do you think he or she should start from?

SPEAKER_01 47:48

Okay, what should they do? Okay, for who might be having interest in design, what I feel is the doors need to understand the basics. It is always or if it is essential, it is efficient, it is essential. Myself, when I delve into uh UI designer, I have already been graphics and write designer. So I hope I have the creative idea already. You already know how to mix colour. So I need to master the basics. The list of the basics, for instance, okay, you don't know how to use the common pen to draw yourself on feedback, and you just expect to those jump. Okay, let me just say, okay, just we have people now that are doing shit online with their AI or everything. You cannot who had gone to Cloud to generate uh um a design. How will he or she actually turn it? That's where the essence comes in.

SPEAKER_02 48:51

I've I've also been able to generate the design on Claude because bring it into Figma. Well, at that point, I looked at the design and I was like, this thing still needs a human touch, it still needs somebody who knows about design. I'm not saying Claude did not do a nice job. I'm not saying it is not okay, but the fact is, each and every one of these things still needs somebody with if with the foundational knowledge about the whole thing. So that's just it. So whoever is coming, I kind of like it because it helps me choose color, and I'm always fine with the colors.

SPEAKER_01 49:24

Sure, sure. Just like if you should then he or she should then close. Okay, this is a particular feed, maybe it is loggy, uh, yes, agriculture, whatever uh feed it is, he or um Claude will actually go ahead and get a brown color for you to work on that. Yes, exactly. But you still need human touch on it. Yes, human judgment is seen. So who doesn't have the foundation knowledge, the foundational knowledge, the um skills about making it traction on this or building from scratch? Okay, for instance, now okay, even you're giving an assessment or you went for an interview after doing your rural work. So you have an interview, you were asked to you were given a full design to redesign or to dissect and start on the file. How will you under it? If you asked, if you are questioned, why was what is your reason for this particular button? What's your reason for this particular call? What's your for using? Because you got a rough answer, you will not be able to defend it. So the foundational knowledge is very, very important when coming into UIS design feed, even in brand or gravity design feed, the foundational knowledge is always, but um, nowadays we have YouTube. And apart from YouTube safe, even if it is UI designer, this Figma of it has their own um academic stuff. So you are always it is online. What you need to do also is ensure you process through it before you start working with it because you can't you you can't say you you do not have the knowledge about each tools, and you just pick up Figma as to what do you know you want to do? You can't even just pick up Figma. So you need to learn about it, and you don't need to link up with people who have been in the field that can walk you through. And what I mean, people that can walk you through, not just any other people, because we have a lot of people that not not even a lot of people, everybody is busy. Yeah, so who create that chance for you? It is who you need. And before even creating that chance, the person must have seen something in you. You must have something to prove by going through the knowledge yourself, letting the person know, okay, this person is worthy enough to lift up. Because if you do not assist yourself, he or she might not be ready because everybody is busy. Yeah, there's stacks ahead, everybody, there's tax in my front, tax on my table, there's a deadline that I need to that I need to meet up with, and you still struggling and need my help. There have to be some things that I'm seeing. Okay, we'll be striving on this already. Let me just give my little way. So that was just it one. The financial knowledge, the passion has to be there also. You need to prove that okay, you actually are ready for this because it is not an easy task. There's no lie in it, it is not an easy task. You have to know, okay, I am I am passionate about this before delving into it. So that's it. Thank you. Thank you so much, Christopher.

SPEAKER_02 52:25

For a look, all right, guys. So um, we are now at the end of the session. Thank you so much, Mr. Kenny, for coming. Thank you so much for sharing your insights. I've been able to pick even me personally as a host, I've been able to learn one or two. So, can you please just tell the viewers where they can find you, where they can find your work online? I know you guys use Behance, you use Tribu.

SPEAKER_01 52:49

Yeah, I know if you use Facebook platforms. Uh-huh. Yeah, actually for your social media. I basically have my LinkedIn handles, my portfolios also, because I do not use social media a lot. I do not use social media a lot because once you are engaged, I see envy people who have the opportunity or who have that passion in them. I've we've been engaged, I still post most often. But once in a while, I have my post on LinkedIn. That is where I post often. Like it's just once in a while, also the couple of food is on.

SPEAKER_02 53:24

So we're just looking for where people will connect with you. All right, no problems easy. Um, so it's just okay. So, guys, you can connect with him on LinkedIn. Um, K in the Farocazees. And um, yeah, I would also link it in the description below. Thank you guys. Um, I hope you guys were able to make it to the end of this session. And please, if you've not yet liked this video, please do so. Like, share, and subscribe. Um, you could have somebody who this video would help, who would learn one or two from this. And um, yeah, we'll see you guys in the next episode. Till then, stay safe, stay sharp, and don't forget, keep building. See you guys. Bye.