Back the Truck Up

In this episode of Chats Behind the Chair, Deborah and Janey explore the importance of stepping back, gaining perspective, and understanding the people around us — both in business and in life.

“Back the truck up” is about pausing in the middle of overwhelm, conflict, or confusion and taking a wider view of what’s really happening.

Through storytelling, humour, and honest reflection, Deborah shares how understanding personality types transformed her salon culture, strengthened her leadership, and helped her build a more connected and successful team.

Sometimes the best thing we can do is simply back the truck up and look at the bigger picture.

To check out the shapes and for more information:
Chats Behind the Chair | CollectiveCourses

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Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:01

So, back the truck up is all about coming back, looking at the whole perspective of what's going on in the situation.

SPEAKER_00 0:14

Welcome to Chats Behind the Chair. I'm Janie and I'm joined by Deborah and today we are going to back the truck up. It is all about taking a step back, really looking at what's going on and understanding what you need and who is on your team. So let's get into it. Deborah, hi. Hi Janie.

SPEAKER_01 0:37

So we're talking about back the truck up. Isn't that a strong statement? It's powerful and it actually makes you just stop. And yeah, there's a reason for this saying that I've kind of come up with it just randomly come to my brain one day. But before we get into that, we're gonna park that first. I'm gonna tell you my story. So quite a few years ago, I had in this amazing opportunity where there was a photo shoot that needed to be done for a Hong Kong-based travel magazine. And a Australian photographer contacted me and you know it was profiling these incredible ranges for New Zealand designers. It was 10 garments, and they were like the very well-known designers in New Zealand. And so there was a model that was flying from up in Auckland, a lovely model. And um, so I did the hair, we had a makeup artist as well. I didn't do the makeup this time. We could do whatever we wanted, okay, because you normally get told what to do and what you know the highlights. Yeah. And the brief was she had the model had to look different in every single photograph. So we worked over four days, we went all around amazing locations around Queenstown and Glenorke, and we produced the beautiful work. And then so we submitted them. They sent us the most amazing magazine of the images, but there was a problem. We didn't get paid. Uh-oh, that's quite a problem. Yeah, and everyone was super upset.

SPEAKER_00 1:55

I bet.

SPEAKER_01 1:56

Yeah, it was all so disappointing.

SPEAKER_00 1:58

So what was the reasoning?

SPEAKER_01 1:59

Well, you don't know. We don't know. You know, it was Hong Kong, so it wasn't like we could go and chat and knock on someone's door, but it we'd never got paid. And I mulled over it for a long time and I had a lot of emotions around it naturally. And I came I went to sleep one night and I came up with an idea. So we'll park that right again and we're gonna come back to that later. Oh, I can't wait, I'm so intrigued. I can't wait to find out what happens. It's good to be curious because you'll keep listening, Janey. So back the truck up. So how I see this is you know when we get ourselves in in a situation that there's things happening around you, and sometimes you just make up stories and you kind of try and read people's minds, and it may be your problem, it may be someone else's problem. But sometimes we just need to back the truck up and get a higher view and see what is actually going on and take some t a little bit of time out.

SPEAKER_00 2:48

Because when you're in it, sometimes you just can't like it's all foggy and messy and it's too much.

SPEAKER_01 2:54

Yeah, and we can trigger emotions and you know something quite substantial happens. Once our heart rate goes up 95 beats a minute, we cannot control what we're saying.

SPEAKER_00 3:05

Yeah, okay. So either you're feeling the rage or you're feeling whatever emotion. The you know, the volcano anger.

SPEAKER_01 3:12

So um backing the truck up, get out of the situation, get a higher view, and just look at what's going on. So today is gonna be all about teams, because so often in life, and even with children, we come up against people that don't see our point of view. Okay, or or our thinking, right? And there is reasons why this happens. And I'm gonna go back to our first podcast when I was sitting with all my team saying, we have to paint the salon and we need to renovate everything before we can put our prices up, right? And I was in a absolute, I didn't know what even to do with that information. I was really annoyed and I was upset. I had lots of emotions. Clearly, I didn't have the money to do what they wanted. And it was I was felt like I was completely roadblocked. You know, it was I was stopped. After doing that course, I went away and did that course, and it's all about the shape. So jump on again, collective courses under Chats Behind the Chair. We're gonna look at all of these personality types.

SPEAKER_00 4:11

So you're saying when you're in a team, it's good to know who your team are and how they operate. And you can do that through the different shapes. Yes. Okay, run us through the shapes.

SPEAKER_01 4:22

Okay, so there's a circle, a triangle, a square, a squiggle, and a rectangle. It's five simple shapes.

SPEAKER_00 4:30

And so you're looking at these five shapes, or you're thinking of these five shapes, and instantly your mind is drawn to one because straight away I've got one in my mind. Yes. It pretty much jumps out.

SPEAKER_01 4:40

Don't overthink it, go with your gut. So that's the key, is just really sort of looking at it, going, you know. Now I've used this technique with my husband and like friends, and I can pretty much almost um see who, you know, when I meet someone and I can hang out with them for a while, I can almost pick their shape. And I often do that as a we test. It's quite fun. Can different shapes work better together? I think no, I think we've all got different skill sets. But it's good to understand who they are. Yeah. Okay. So, you know, when you look back, kids, you know, we're always in we're sort of we were um very much our peer groups were a lot of the times similar people to us, right? And you we attract like people. You know, they're our friends, they're like us, they like the same things, you know. But as we get into business or, you know, even looking at what your kids, their personality types, it's good to know who's on our team or any team, you know? 100%. Um, so this helps because a lot of times we need people with different skills. And we have already, within a short amount of time working together, because we're a new team, right? We've already found that, you know, there's some reasons that we've felt uncomfortable out of our natural personalities. Out of our comfort zones. I knew I was really sort of yeah, causing you to go, what's going on? So, Janie, what shape are you? I am a circle. You're a great communicator, you're an awesome storyteller. You you're compassionate, empathetic. So every circle's these these, not just you, Janie. Uh, you love every circle loves to have fun and laugh um at work and sometimes will talk too much. Guilty. Okay, you really struggle to say no. You are you very hard to set boundaries with people. You often say uh yes, and then you walk away and go, damn it, I wish I had said no. What if I've overcommitted and I've you know, so you struggle with saying no. You often will not value yourself. So um you sometimes cannot even think about putting prices up or charging people more. It's a value issue around yourself. Sometimes you take um things really personally, and if you are really struggling, you'll go really silent when you're feeling hurt or angry. A circle just wants to fix everyone. You're incredible on a team. Um, but you feel guilty and responsible for everyone on the team. Okay? You do your best work in teams opposed to just working on your own, because you you're questioning yourself, and that comes down to valuing yourself. Uh you're great at your technical work, but you need things written down. Okay. I like to plan. Yeah, okay. That's where we differ, Deborah. We so differ. You're always having the eye on team dynamics. You want peace and peaceful relationships on your team. So, okay, you're a circle, like lots of circles out there. What do you reckon about that?

SPEAKER_00 7:35

Honestly, you a hundred percent nailed my personality. Like, I definitely talk a lot. I overshare, which sometimes I think that's at my detriment. Hugely emotional and would give away things for free rather than charge for them, if that makes sense. Like honestly, every time I do work for people, I'm like, oh, I'll just take an hour off there, which is ridiculous. But that's just how that's how I operate. So it you pretty much know me, 100%.

SPEAKER_01 8:05

That's the circles, right? So I'm gonna let you do my me, which is a triangle. A triangle, okay.

SPEAKER_00 8:14

Yes. A triangle. Sometimes you go in three directions at once. You don't write down details, it's all in your head, and the ideas constantly flow. You're confident, focused, outspoken, and used to being successful. Tick, tick, tick. You always look at the big picture. You love being in charge and in control. You're self-motivated, you're a multitasker who likes setting goals and also likes making all the decisions. You love debating and arguing. Triangles hate to lose and really think to apologize. That surprises me, but okay. You can at times have a get-it-done attitude. A triangle is goal-oriented. They're a quick study and a confident, quick decision maker. You have to encourage the triangle to listen and take in other points of view. Remind them that they're not always right and that's normal. And it takes patience to deal with a triangle. Ah, okay. And it takes confidence to point out their mistakes.

SPEAKER_01 9:16

Great. So that's the triangle. Yes, it is very interesting. I can actually um align with a lot of those parts of my personality. I can see a few as well. And you can see when we started, you know, like it's a just a it's just an interesting thing because we come from really different perspectives. Yes, totally. Totally. So let's dive in now with the square. Okay, these people are everything in, they're all everything's in a box. They're the most organized, the very, very tidy, they're logical and very practical, detailed people. So they're super organized, highly intolerable of sloppy work. So they want everything perfect. Yeah. They're the most knowledgeable of all of the shapes. So they do a lot of research. They're the most positive traits are p perseverance and patience. Wow.

SPEAKER_00 10:06

I feel like I need a square on my life.

SPEAKER_01 10:07

I know, we all need. Their mantra, clean desk, organized mind. So, you know, you come into my office. Chaos. So you can yes, and they'll have a tidy, tidy desk. They love data, policies, procedures, structure, order makes them happy. Okay. Dislike pr surprises. So they want to know all the details. So is this like your your accountants or lawyers? Yes. So it's detailed project managers. You know, anyone that's um organizing, you know, anything money-wise or business-wise often will be the square. Okay. So they're very dependable, reliable, um, and responsible. They're deadlines and they'll get it done. That might expect others to do the same. So get it right, even if it takes all night. So they just want to actually get on with the job and get it done. They're very hard workers. They basically will always keep into schedule and to budget. So these, you know, these are people we need. So the the I definitely had to get a square within my team. And I suggest, you know, we'll have to find a square as well. I think we might have found a square. Good. Oh, we like that. Okay, squiggle personality type. The squiggles, now you're creative, you're original, you're an idea generator. Are you like being around you, you're really fun people to be around. Are you also like attention? You love the big picture and you're always considering possibilities. But sometimes speak um before you think and don't always research bef first before sh you're sh shooting from the hip. Okay? So squiggles can get bored easily, and you're not always organized and you don't uh like to be told what to do.

SPEAKER_00 11:51

Oh my gosh, I'm married to a squiggle. Squiggle, okay.

SPEAKER_01 11:55

He does not like being told what to do. Okay, no, yes. So however, you adopt you easily for change and you always like trying new new things. Squiggles will always be the why person. Why is this why they'll be questioning why. In fact, they're a real big change catalyst, so they'll change easily and they'll actually help support other people in a in a company situation where you need change to ha happen. Squiggles are awesome to have on the team because they're open for change.

SPEAKER_00 12:24

Interesting, because I am not, and that's why him and I sometimes clash a little bit because he's like, let's let's do this. I'm like, hold a second, rewind.

SPEAKER_01 12:31

Oh, funny. They very keep it like keep um squiggles engaged with learning. Um, and it because they really they'll get bored. So once I realized one of my team members was a squiggle, I was always saying to her, Look, you know what kind of what kind of courses do you want to do this year? What are your what are your needs? You know, so always sort of future planning what their possibilities, what they're kind of like to keep stimulating them for interest. It's really important. But fantastic personalities. Now, how rectangle. Now, haven't actually come across a rectangle yet, but generally they're ready for a big change in their life. So it might be their business or their relationship or you know, moving countries, or they're just ready for change. So I mean, maybe all of us may be a rectangle at some stage, like it's like signifies a bridge, so ready for change. So anyway, I sat down with my team and I worked out for a start I got them to all write down what they were. And then I had a really good think about those personality types. And then we from there we realized that we did all have different strengths. So you had some circles and squares and squiggles. Didn't actually have a square on the salon. They were my accountant. Right. But I had lots of circles, a squiggle, and I was the only triangle. So then what we did was there, we decided to create our own company culture, which was really powerful. So we could sort of see that we all had different strengths. We all went away and we all wrote down all the things we wanted, like the best scenario for a business to work in. And that's from my perspective, but then for all their perspectives. And it was kind of interesting because one of my team members came back and she'd come from a retile background. And she said that I should have the ability to to do bag searches. Hold on, like actually look at people's bags.

SPEAKER_00 14:20

So you get your haircut, you get to the counter.

SPEAKER_01 14:23

The staff. Oh, the staff. Okay. Yes, so we should have an ability to actually look at and I'm like, what what does this mean? What are we looking for? Well, it was really, I guess, theft. She came from a a breedhold background. And I'm like, oh no, that's definitely not going to be part of that culture. It was really cute. It was really cute. But anyway, so so a number of my staff decided to sit down and write out the reasons they really enjoyed working in within the environment. And so we actually published all of those in the the template of our culture. And it was really powerful because when we ever had a new person come to work for us, they would be given the culture and really talk see what if this aligned with their values.

SPEAKER_00 15:03

And that's what I was gonna say. So it's kind of saying the values of your salon, like what's important to you, how we operate. Yeah. How do people want to feel at work?

SPEAKER_01 15:12

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 15:13

Which I guess is like creating a mission statement for your workplace. And I guess people can do that with their family.

SPEAKER_01 15:20

Yes, I had a family that it was a fused family, so they did the same kind of concept. And they had in there they had the set of rules, and one of them they weren't allowed to call anyone dumb. That that was banned and there was consequences, actually a punishment. And the other one was they weren't allowed to kill spiders. Okay, which is really cute. And I actually don't, I always gather them and put them out. So I always think it's gonna rain. So I'm like, I don't want to kill a spider. It's funny. So anyway, out of all that, we came through that process of understanding, you know, I'm not gonna change too much of who I am. I have to have circles around me, like you, Janie. We have to have squares and squiggles, and you know, everyone, we need to all appreciate that we all have different strengths and we can all lead in our different chosen fields because we can. You know, and I one of my ethos was was my things was I wanted to go on holiday and completely not have had to have anything to do with the business unless there was an emergency. And it got to a stage where they wouldn't contact me unless there was something was major. And so I got to, you know, switch off on my holidays. And I think that's something to be really mindful of when you have a business, you've got to be able to switch off.

SPEAKER_00 16:29

And how cool that you actually had what was important to you and your other staff members, and so you're all on the same page.

SPEAKER_01 16:37

Completely. They owned, you know, they saw it as their own business within the umbrella. And how did that help your business?

SPEAKER_00 16:45

Did it change it?

SPEAKER_01 16:46

Just grow. I guess that's why people call it an institution, because it was, and people still do that. I had to, um, I couldn't get another lease, so we had to close the actual physical salon I carried on. You know, I worked in another salon after that for quite some time. And, you know, and it's it's great. And this is where I see this podcast is being able to share some of these tolls, you know, to the next generation, like the apprentices that have, you know, I've just met. It's a wonderful trade and it's a wonderful platform of what you can do with it. And with within any organization, you you know, you spend so much time at work, more than what you do with even with your family, that it's so important that we enjoy our workspace.

SPEAKER_00 17:24

Absolutely. So if you want to check out the personality profiles, just go to collective courses and find chats behind the chair. Now I want to go back. Tell me what happened with the calendar.

SPEAKER_01 17:34

Okay, so we I you know I slept on it for a few nights and then I come up with this idea. So I'd had this incredible mentor who had trained me when I was 16 to about 19. She sadly passed away with breast cancer. And so I decided that through her memory, I would create a calendar for breast cancer research. So channeling money to research. So I came up with this concept. We had 10 photos already, beautiful photos, and so I needed two more. So what I did was I decided that I would have a chat to all my male clients and that had businesses in Queenstown. And I got 12 men essentially to buy a calendar page each for $1,000. So I generated $12,000 within 10 days.

SPEAKER_00 18:19

Amazing.

SPEAKER_01 18:20

And then so we produced this beautiful calendar. I got Davenus to also supply salons through New Zealand and to then sell them. But I had this ethos that I wanted 100% of the money to go to breast cancer research. And it it wasn't really selling, and I sort of was struggling with that. So I ended up catching up with this lady who does all this amazing um fundraising in Queenstown. Like she's known, she's incredible. So I sat down with her and I said, Look, I've got this great product, and you know, it's just not selling. And she basically at that coffee, she coffee date, she said, it's not gonna work. And I was like quite disheartened.

SPEAKER_00 18:57

I bet you were.

SPEAKER_01 18:58

I had gone on, you know, I'd been interviewed on Good Morning Show on TV, and I'd had lots of the newspapers pick the story up, and but it just didn't, wasn't getting the momentum. And so I come out of that meeting going, okay, I just need to realise that it's probably not gonna get to my expectations, but I'm not gonna give up. So I ended up selling, I think I raised $11,000 from that process. But not only that, the conversations in the salon that were had, and people would share their stories about people they knew as breast cancer was it was it was a very intimate time of you know, talking about a subject that's hard for a lot of people. And it really did um have a real community spirit. I remember one gentleman, he bought like 10 calendars for every room in the house.

SPEAKER_00 19:44

For every project. I mean maybe two. Two in every room of the house.

SPEAKER_01 19:48

Yeah, so it's all about, you know, from then again, I didn't have the right team. You know, have a square. I didn't have a square, I didn't get the money thing right, and I didn't have the marketing right. So this all aligns of just getting our strengths and doing what we do really well. Because if we don't, if we have things that we don't enjoy doing, we don't do them and they just fall off our plate eventually. You know, we only do the things we love doing. So stick to your knitting, stick to things that you you're passionate about, and then gather the people that you need around you. Create your team, create your culture.

SPEAKER_00 20:18

Deborah, thank you. Thank you so much, Danny. Well, thanks for joining us on Chats Behind the Chair. If you could do us one favor, we would love for you to share this episode with a friend who you think might enjoy it. Have a fantastic week, and we look forward to catching you back here soon on Chats Behind the Chair.