Ep 11 - 100 Year Old Double Homicide, Cold Case Missing Persons - WA POLICE FORCE PODCAST

Episode 11 of WA Police Confidential! The official WA Police Force Podcast.

On this week’s show:

- Dive into the murder of officers Pitman and Walsh on the eve of the anniversary of their tragic murder. We speak to WA Police's very own Gold Stealing Detection Unit.

- Detectives from Missing Persons Team join the show to revisit the disappearance of then-teenager Sophie Woodman from over 40 years ago.

- Detective Senior Constable Greg McDougall speaks to us before his return to duty.

- The show gets a rebrand!

- Cat rescues, cactus antics and more!!!

Transcript

SPEAKER_07 0:00

This podcast discusses real life crimes and law enforcement matters. It may include detailed descriptions of criminal activity, traumatic incidents, and other content that could be confronting or distressing, particularly for victim survivors. Listener discretion is advised. If you find any of these topics upsetting, please consider whether this content is right for you and seek support if needed.

SPEAKER_02 0:36

Drumroll Police. Under new management.

SPEAKER_11 0:58

The name Operation Podcast was a bit of an in-joke because everything in policing is an operation of sorts.

SPEAKER_02 1:04

Or something or other. Turns out the joke is on us, but we aren't kidding when we say keep tuning in.

SPEAKER_11 1:10

We've actually had more than 20,000 listens since we launched Operation Podcast, so please keep tuning in to WA Police Confidential. Nothing's changing apart from the name.

SPEAKER_02 1:19

Okay, let's get into it. I'm Joey Katanzaro. I'm Maya Greeve. I'm Sergeant Nate Gilmore. This week, our Cold Case Missing Person series continues.

SPEAKER_11 1:27

This week's mystery, a 13-year-old hitchhiker who disappeared in the 1980s.

SPEAKER_02 1:32

We need your help to solve this one. And we often talk about dogs on this podcast.

SPEAKER_11 1:36

They're the best.

SPEAKER_02 1:37

Yes, they are. But this week we have a story involving cops and a cat.

SPEAKER_11 1:41

Up a tree.

SPEAKER_02 1:42

Down a drain, actually, but more on that later.

SPEAKER_11 1:44

By the end of this episode, you'll know why Western Australia is the only policing jurisdiction in the world that has its own gold stealing detection unit.

SPEAKER_02 1:53

And why the murder of two detectives in the Outback 100 years ago has sparked a new police search operation. Sort of.

SPEAKER_11 2:00

Policing can be an exceptionally tough job, but for Detective Senior Constable Greg McDougall, serving our community almost cost him his life. In September 2024, Greg came to a terrifyingly close encounter of being killed while in the line of duty.

SPEAKER_02 2:15

He joins us shortly.

SPEAKER_11 2:16

And boy does he have a story to tell. You're listening to WA Police Confidential.

SPEAKER_02 2:29

Welcome back to WA Police Confidential. This is going to be a long intro, but it's there's a bit of setting the scene that needs to happen. It's no secret that in Western Australia we owe much of our prosperity to our mining and energy sectors. The hard work of these industries has not only strengthened our state, it has supported the freedoms and the lifestyle that we all enjoy here in Australia. But there is one factor that sets our nation apart from other resource-rich regions around the world. And that factor is the rule of law.

SPEAKER_11 2:58

In WA, we don't have military coups, systematic widespread corruption, or organized crime operating at a level that strangles our economy and our freedom. But we have the rule of law.

SPEAKER_02 3:10

There was, though, a time when WA could have gone down a very different, less prosperate, more dangerous path. And that time was the dawn of the 20th century when criminal gangs, robbers, and thieves threatened the prosperity coming out of the Western Australia goldfields.

SPEAKER_11 3:26

In 1907, the WA police force established a crack squad of incorruptibles. They could not be bought. They could not be intimidated. Their job was to clean up the goldfields and to take the fight to the lawless and establish that rule of law.

SPEAKER_02 3:42

The gold stealing detection unit was established to defend honest miners from organized crime. And arguably, two of the best among them were detectives John Joseph Walsh and Alexander Henry Pittman. They embodied integrity at a time when bribery and threats were common, and for their efforts, they paid the ultimate price.

SPEAKER_11 4:09

But almost a century on, their case is, well, it's not quite close, and you're about to hear why.

SPEAKER_02 4:15

So we're joined today by Sergeant Graham Baylor and Sergeant Brian Dance from the Gold Stealing Detection Unit. Gentlemen, thanks very much for coming on the podcast. Before we get into it, I just want to say thank you very much to our production team for that um very creative soundscape that made that very long intro a little bit more engaging. Gentlemen, so we're talking about Pittman and Walsh, two detectives that almost 100 years ago to the day, in fact, next week will be the anniversary, paid the ultimate plot price uh for their service to the to Western Australia. Before we get into that, do you have a sense of who they were as people through your research and and through the squad?

SPEAKER_12 5:00

Yeah, so um I'm giving a bit of a speech in next week's event, and I've been going through their EMFs, and uh it's a pretty good story they have.

SPEAKER_11 5:09

What's their employee management files for those that are curious? Okay, yep.

SPEAKER_12 5:14

Sorry, yeah. So I was using it to build on top of there's some local stories, and Brian's got these about um how they were called the uncorruptibles. Yep. So um there was there was unfortunately like like the South American kind of plumo o plata was kind of the the the bra the braber threat situation. They were in a boulder, their families had been sent back to the Caligoli Boulder to Perth at the time, and they were trying to bribe um stories they were trying to bribe.

SPEAKER_02 5:39

They were leaving booze or something on the on the the front doorstep of Pittman and he was he was smashing it to make a a point of you can't bribe me.

SPEAKER_12 5:47

That that's right, yeah. And um probably Brain could talk more on the the all the outline threat, the all-kind of threat that was against them constantly. Could you kind of give some back to that?

SPEAKER_05 5:55

Well, because it wasn't just obviously uh the the from the people in town um they were getting threats uh because they thought they could take the goal. And obviously police and the government had other ideas. Um but it wasn't just that, it was also at the station leaks um could happen, so um a lot of their work was done in total secrecy. Um because of that, they they they had to keep a lot of information to themselves, um, so it allowed them to go out and and look. But the story that Graham was referring to, the uh uncorruptibles that was in the newspaper at the time, it's uh Inspector Walsh is saying, I think one gentleman offered him a bribe of a thousand pounds. Um and all Mr. Walsh said was if you ever mention that again, it will be in a court setting and you'll be charged. Um they just couldn't be corrupted, they were dedicated to their work.

SPEAKER_02 6:46

We've established that they are the incorruptibles, that uh they're there for uh a very important reason, and they paid the ultimate price for doing their job. Can you tell us how that came about? What what was the the circumstances of their murder?

SPEAKER_05 7:04

They tracked down obviously people that were illegally dealing in gold throughout Kalgooli Boulder area. They they knew um of operations out towards uh where we're at today, the the scene, which is some 16 miles south of Boulder, um, around the Woolabar area um station. Um they've had information, we believe they'd they received a bit of a tip-off on the 27th of April 1926. 1926 that led them to head off early in the morning out this way. Um and they'd been looking, they've been looking for a while trying to catch the operation with Coulter and Traffine because they had been watching them at the Cornwall Hotel. They knew they were dealing in illicit gold, people were bringing the ore in. Um, what they didn't know was just the location of the planet. Uh so they'd spent a few weeks researching it, and then on April the 27th, they've then headed out and on their pushbikes that day.

SPEAKER_02 8:02

On their bicycles, wasn't it?

SPEAKER_05 8:03

On their push bikes. Yeah. Correct. Yeah, uh, Mr. Walsh was 66 years old and Sergeant Pittman was 56 years old. And yeah, just bicycle and swag and their um and their lunch.

SPEAKER_02 8:12

And and so when we say headed out, I mean how long would that have taken them to get out there?

SPEAKER_12 8:18

Uh we're we're sitting here at the moment where the murder scene is, uh took us about 45 minutes to drive out this morning from Cal.

SPEAKER_02 8:24

Okay. Wow. So that put that on a on a bicycle.

SPEAKER_12 8:28

Yeah, they probably weren't sleeping in 110. So yeah, it's a bit of a track.

SPEAKER_02 8:32

Okay. So you mentioned Coltrane, something. I'm assuming those are the crooks.

SPEAKER_05 8:38

Yeah, Trafin and Coltrane, correct.

SPEAKER_02 8:40

Okay, so these are the crooks. They've presumably they've come across, they've actually they've done it. Their detective workers worked, they've found this illegal mining operation. What happens then?

SPEAKER_05 8:53

Sadly, both at Troll, they they come up with a very implausible explanation that um one of the men, Traffine, uh, was there, Coulter wasn't there, he accidentally shot both officers running away with a shotgun over his shoulder, etc. Um, not long before they were hung, uh, Traffine made a statement to the government, and it's probably the closest thing we get to the actual facts of what happened on the day, and that is that um Mr. Walt and Sergeant Pittman come across him. Um, as they've gone to the camp, Trafine has grabbed the shotgun, he's fired the shotgun and hit Sergeant Pittman, who was a known sharpshooter, so he was he was known for being shooting ability, um, shot him in the hand, we believe. Um, he's then fired a second shot, we believe that was Inspector Walsh. He's then dropped the shotgun taken off uh by his own admission, and Coulter has then shot and killed Sergeant Pittman and shot and killed Inspector Walsh.

SPEAKER_02 9:55

Jeez. Unreal. Cold blooded.

SPEAKER_12 9:58

Absolutely cold blooded.

SPEAKER_02 9:59

And and they both had families, didn't they?

SPEAKER_12 10:02

Correct. Yeah, so um Pittman had uh two daughters and a son, and I believe Walsh had two two sons or something trying to say. Yeah, they'd dad kids each. Irrespective.

unknown 10:14

Sorry.

SPEAKER_02 10:15

Irrespective um of of how exactly it happened at the illegal mine site, what we do know is the police response. Can you talk us through how the Blue family responded in 1926 to the murder of two of their own?

SPEAKER_05 10:31

So uh sadly, once again, because of the secrecy they operated under, um, it was around 10 days before they were actually reported missing. Um, Sergeant Pittman at the time, he was based at the Boulder Police Station. Inspector Walsh was working from the Kalgooli police station. Um, one of the Boulder officers realized that he kept checking on Sergeant Pittman's premises and noticed that nothing was changing. So he's raised the alarm locally, and then a telegram was forwarded down to the commissioner in Perth that these officers are now missing. And then that then triggered the investigation. Uh, Detective Sergeant Manning and Detective Sergeant Purdue were dispatched with other detectives from Perth, um, the CIB. Um, Inspector Condon, I think he was in charge of the CIB at the time. And then they've commenced the inquiries here uh with lots of information coming in from the local public. I think it wasn't long after they arrived, uh, with only within a day or two that they actually located uh the officers' remains in Miller's vine. Um they'd had a tip-off of blowflies and a foul smell coming from uh an abandoned shaft um outside of Kel Goolidge heading towards Cool Gardey. Um and then once they were able to recover the officers, there were certain things that they found, the smelting um pieces of equipment down the shaft. They then uh commenced the search for the actual scene of the murder, which is what we're still looking for today's charge, all those years later.

SPEAKER_02 12:03

But and we'll get to that. We will get to that. We will. Um so through their investigation, so they've found the bodies, and unfortunately they were dismembered, I believe.

SPEAKER_05 12:15

Tragically, yeah. Yeah, they and it was known, um, Inspector Walsh, there was an informant, uh gentleman by the name of Boggan, and he'd actually said to Mr. Walsh prior that uh trop Coulter and Trafine have threatened if you come across them, they're gonna shoot cut your body up and burn it. So that's actually recorded, and that's actually what happened.

SPEAKER_02 12:37

So after they murdered uh the two detectives, Pittman and Walsh, where did can you talk us through what the investigation revealed? I believe it involved a pub, I think.

SPEAKER_05 12:50

Correct. They um they had very early on they they were given the names uh Coulter Traffine and um who's Republican? Clark. Captain Clark, um, amongst with others as well. Um but once they were able to, when they located the scene south of Boulder, um, there were items at the scene then, which one of them was a piece of paper that actually had written on at the Cornwall Hotel. Um they then found uh some other items like asparagus tin, which was really weird. Miners didn't, a lot of miners didn't have asparagus tins back then. Um when they went to the proprietor of the shop in Boulder, he said, Well, there's only two people I sell them to. One is Evan Clark at the Cornwall Hotel, and another was just a local person. Um they were then able to start piecing it together that these men were definitely now suspects. Um and then that led to the eventual arrest of an initially um Clark and Traffine. Um Coulter was uh arrested the following day, he was released. Um, and then Clark, I think a day or two later, then made a voluntary statement and went king's evidence against Coulter and Traffine.

SPEAKER_02 14:00

So Clark was the bloke at the hotel, is that right?

SPEAKER_05 14:04

Correct. He he he was a proprietor.

SPEAKER_02 14:06

He was the public and the proprietor. What what was the name of the hotel and is it still there today?

SPEAKER_12 14:11

Yeah, it's for sale at the moment. It's uh it's on the Garfields Highway there in Border, it's the Cornwall Hotel.

SPEAKER_02 14:17

The Cornwall Hotel. Yeah. Um is it true that the the detectives we believe were taken back to the Cornwall Hotel and and actually dismembered there?

SPEAKER_12 14:29

So there's there's a bit of conjecture on that. Um some sources say yes, some sources say they went straight to to Miller's Find. So we can't say for sure. Um, but that's certainly a story. What one thing that we can say is um the stories around town is that if you went to the Cornwall Hotel afterwards and you ordered a Pittman and Walsh, you got a beer with no head. That was the thing in town that the miners were doing. So that gives you an idea of the climate there at that time.

SPEAKER_02 14:53

Yeah. Jeez. That's cold. That is really cold. Okay. So hostile environment potentially to work in. But there were a lot of people, obviously, that that did support them. In fact, I believe I believe that their bodies were transported up to Perth in the actual gold bullion um I guess secure armored armored train car uh for the funeral, is what I've been told. And uh and that it was actually a very well-attended funeral, is that right?

SPEAKER_12 15:27

Yeah, it's very well attended funeral. Um in the some historical photos photographs as well, actually on our on our police uh screensaver at the moment. But yeah, it was um you can see him from the photographs in Perth, you know, the bodies going down Main Street in Perth or Horseshoe Bridge, and it's uh it's Hate Street is it hatred that went down? It's just packed with people, so it's streets very well.

SPEAKER_02 15:48

I I I actually think it may have been the biggest funeral at that time in terms of attendance in the state's history. Okay. Our villains, our murderers, what was their ultimate fate?

SPEAKER_12 16:01

So yeah, so the the Trafin and Coulter were hung and after being convicted in court, and because Evan Clark turned states evidence he was pardoned, because I suppose the evidence was that strong that he that he provided. So yeah, the two the two who we believe are the perpetrators at the time have were convicted and and hung.

SPEAKER_02 16:21

So you mentioned earlier, and I think this is this is quite fascinating, that you've been searching for something out there, the murder site. Is that right?

SPEAKER_12 16:33

That's right. We're actually here at the moment with a a party of media trying to find it. Um there's been lots of expeditions, so it's a bit of a a GSDU thing. You get a hand over from the previous OIC when you come out here of trips they've done, and our office is full of little bits of catalogues of of things, and and also then you've got the Historical Society and Brainsman with these guys as well. It's our history's quite important, and it's one of the things that we we see is we don't really cover a lot in the death of Pittman and Walsh apart from coming out here, it's a lot about who they were. So if you look at our office, there's not a single photograph of the murder scene or the investigation. The photographs are of Pittman and Walsh when they worked at GSDU and the work they did. Looking at um Inspector Walsh, so he was the inspector over GSDS as it was then, and the local detectives in Cal and Boulder. And he was in his 60s and he was still going out to to scenes like the one where he lost his life. But there's also he got a commendation for hiding in a piece of machinery for 12 hours to watch somebody who was stealing machinery and doing burgs around town.

SPEAKER_02 17:33

Wow. Uh next week we'll be commemorating the 100th anniversary of the uh sacrifice paid by Pittman and Walsh in Kalgooli. Uh there'll be many dignitaries there, including, I believe, a WA police officer who's a descendant of one of the detectives. Is that right?

SPEAKER_05 17:51

That's right, yeah. Yeah, uh uh Sergeant uh Matt Leach. That's right, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 17:58

Incredible.

SPEAKER_05 17:58

We think he's he's armadile at the moment.

SPEAKER_02 18:01

Uh the gold stealing detection unit, which I believe is what it's called now. Um what do you guys do now? You're the last one in the world. What is it you guys do?

SPEAKER_12 18:12

So we've got it, we wear many, many hats. Uh obviously gold stealing, well, not even gold stealing, go um the stealing of gold-bearing material uh from mine sites mainly is our is our main bread and butter, and then all the parts along the gold supply chain. So whether that's targeting those who are stealing what looks like essentially dirt, um, then there's people who process it in their backyards using you know mercury and other illegal chemicals will target them, we'll target the gold buyers who are buying this illicit gold.

SPEAKER_02 18:40

How how prevalent is gold theft these days? I always think like bushes, bush ranges and stuff, but you know, the it it seems like you you guys are pretty busy.

SPEAKER_12 18:51

We're we're yeah, yeah. Um the question I always get asked in media stuff is has it gone up because of their gold price? And I was I was saying that it hadn't, it was always consistently high, it was just more noticeable because of the high gold price, but it is actually increasing now. So we've had um two weeks ago, uh our guys pulled well, others well, we got two guys out of a ballmill. So a ball mill on a mine site is a giant, I mean you can picture a giant cement mixer and a lot of gold material but it's stuck in the crevices and the walls of of older ones, older style ones. And there's one that's been decommissioned, and we basically got two guys in the ball mill. So it wasn't it wasn't operating and turning, but you know, rope ladder in there scraping the walls.

SPEAKER_02 19:29

Wow.

SPEAKER_12 19:30

So um and weirdly, so we have a pretty, you know, we're with a lot of intel-led placing, we have a pretty good idea of who our crooks are across the board. Um, and these are two people that we didn't know.

SPEAKER_02 19:39

So the thing about this is that uh and I'm no expert, but you need chemicals like mercury to extract the gold dust from the dirt. That is highly, highly unstable, unstable and really, really quite dangerous, isn't it?

SPEAKER_12 19:57

Yeah, there's there's a massive danger. So you're looking at the the mercury and your safe levels, and you've got um, you know, I think I think it works out as I look at my stats, so one one point per million, I think, is a safe level for a child, and ten points per million is a safe level of exposure for an adult. And we're finding places where there's 500 in the in a cement mixer in a backyard. So we had a recent spill where um during a domestic, someone threw the void of mercury at the other person and it it smashed. And once it's smashed and it's in the open, that's an instant hazmat incident. So we've gone there and gone, no, this isn't us. So we call it DFES to the original response. Chem Center came out from Perth with a special thing called a Jerome to test the air, um, to test for mercury vapor, and it became like a an alphabet soup of acronyms from government agencies and teams meetings of of resolving this because it's such a big cleanup process to it. And that was from a small voil of mercury.

SPEAKER_11 20:49

Wow. Wow. So yeah, look, there's a lot more to it than just investigating gold thieves. There's there's, as you mentioned, uh a lot, a lot happening behind the scenes. Thank you for taking the time out of your day to chat with us and the important work you're doing about uh commemorating the memory of uh Pittman and Walsh out there in the uh gold fields. So, gentlemen, thank you for for what you do and and your colleagues as well. Um, and uh we'll catch up with you soon to uh hear how you went.

SPEAKER_07 21:24

In 1980, 13-year-old Sophie Woodman disappeared. More than four decades later, her case remains unresolved. This is a missing person story that has not been forgotten. And today I'm joined by Detective Sergeant Spivey. Tell us a little bit about Sophie.

SPEAKER_06 21:41

Yeah, well, as you said, she was a 13-year-old, I guess you would say, girl. Yeah, at the time she was a student at at Hollywood Senior High School. Um only 13. Uh she was described as uh 170 to 175 centimetres tall, blonde hair, blue eyes, and and slim build. Um, the the family reported that she looked older than than her age. Um but yeah, as you said, mainly the the main aspect is uh a 13-year-old who's been missing since the 1980s.

SPEAKER_07 22:13

And tell us a little bit about take us back to that day, 21st of March in 1980. Yep. What happened?

SPEAKER_06 22:22

Yeah, so uh she she's told the family that her and her friend were going to a a going-away party. Um but as the investigation progressed, what actually transpired is the the two girls had hitched a lift in a in a truck um from the Welshpool area and headed over to Dubbo in in New South Wales. Um and when in Dubbo, they have gone into um Sophie's friend's family members or grandmother's house over in Dubbo and said hello, and then they've disappeared from there and reportedly hopped back in the truck um and gone down to Sydney and then eventually found themselves in in Melbourne.

SPEAKER_07 23:04

Yeah, right. So this is these are two 13-year-old girls who have hitchhiked their way across the entire country and ended up in the eastern states.

SPEAKER_06 23:15

Yeah, that's right. And and you can imagine back in the 1980s things were clearly different. Um But difficulties in investigating this matter back in the time was the fact that uh things that are available to us now, as in just an email, um, were not available back in the day. So it made it difficult to investigate a couple of couple of girls who had gone missing and and headed over east. Um but the officers at the time investigated the matter, obviously, um, tracked down uh Sophie's friend, who they found in May of that year, um, and returned to Western Australia. Um and her friend uh told officers at the time of the last time she had seen Sophie, Sophie was working um in a factory, I believe, at the time, and that Sophie had changed her her appearance and and was also using a different name of Sarah Wood. Um so obviously had taken steps to to mask her appearance. Um and obviously, as you could understand, a couple of 13-year-olds living over East had found work to try to survive. Um, and that at this stage is the last confirmed sighting of Sophie.

SPEAKER_07 24:35

So that was in 1980, May 1980, roughly, that she was last known to have been maybe working in a factory in St. Kilda in Melbourne. Fast forward, you know, four decades now. Um what has that impact been like on her family with without having heard from her, seen her all these years later?

SPEAKER_06 24:58

Yeah. Well, as as we discussed previously, there's the the loss and the unknown questions. Um Sophie had a uh brother, and of course, parents. Um Sophie's brother was 12 at the time of of her disappearance. Um, and he he now is is 58 years old. So he's a grown man um with family. Um Sophie's mother is 88 years old, and unfortunately her father has has passed on and um never got an answer as to what has happened to Sophie.

SPEAKER_07 25:39

And you know, there are probably plenty of theories about what's happened to her, why she left. Um, but as investigators this case remains open and and um I suppose what part of the investigation has kind of led you guys to any sort of theories, if any, on um on what happened to her?

SPEAKER_06 26:01

Yeah. So as as um all miss in person matters, they are all uh open investigations until someone is found. This is an open investigation and an active investigation on uh on our list. Um there was uh prior to um her friend returning to WA in in May 1980, the the girls had discussed traveling to Queensland. Um it's unknown if Sophie actually made it to Queensland. Um she was hanging out with uh a couple of other girls, um some of which were described as runaways as well. There was one girl apparently who had run away from Adelaide, who Sophie was hanging out with. Um so it's really unknown at this stage what has happened to Sophie. Uh it's unknown if she's moved on and living a separate life. Um family believe, unfortunately, that she has died. Um and that belief is based on the fact that she hasn't touched base with with anyone over that period of time. And you can imagine as a 13-year-old girl running away throughout time, your um maybe loyalty or your your thoughts of your family would change as you grow. Um and throughout that time she hasn't contacted any family.

SPEAKER_07 27:29

And this has been one of one of the oldest cases in on the books, is that correct?

SPEAKER_06 27:36

That's correct. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_07 27:38

And what would it be like if tomorrow someone's listening to this podcast and and and like, oh, actually, no, I think I might know who who they're talking about and maybe provide that little bit of information that that you guys need. What would that be like as a detective who's worked on this case? Um, to be able to provide some of those answers to to her elderly mother who's um, yeah, quite quite aged at the minute.

SPEAKER_06 28:07

Oh, it would obviously be very rewarding um to be able to provide answers to the family. And and to provide answers, no matter what the circumstances are, um would be great. Obviously, if if the circumstances were that she was living a new life elsewhere, and to be able to to provide that to the family and to be able to confirm that would be would be amazing. Um and that's the thing with missing people. If if someone goes missing and they don't want family to know where they are, and uh that's fine. But just to touch base with the police and just to let us know that you're alive. Um, and that could be the only information that we provide to the family. Um if if that was your wishes that you wanted to move on with your life, then that's fine. But to be able to provide answers and and perhaps assist with the grief that the family are going through would be amazing. Um throughout the investigation, there's been a number of reported sightings. Uh the most recent was uh around 1995, 1996 in New South Wales. Um, and that was um unsubstantiated and unable to be confirmed as a Sophie, but all all reports are looked into and investigated. Um and as you said, all you need is one thing to to crack it open and to be routed able to provide, provide the answers.

SPEAKER_07 29:34

And and I suppose that's that's why we're chatting about this case in particular, too. Um, you know, we'll delve into a number of other cases over the coming weeks. But um, I suppose in this, in her disappearance, in Sophie's disappearance, um, no matter how small or seemingly insignificant, you know, you have a memory of from years ago, uh, you're encouraged to contact police with with any information.

SPEAKER_06 29:58

Yeah, that's right. And and with this case in particular, it's it's the unknown. And and I say that, that every missing person case there is unknown. Uh, but in this instance, um, the fact that Sophie herself had had made efforts to take off, um, change her appearance, um, it really is unknown as to to what's happened to her, where she is, um, if she's still out there. Um, it would be great to be able to provide answers to the family or or just to let family know that, yeah, you are okay.

SPEAKER_07 30:33

Brilliant. Well, thank you so much for joining us.

SPEAKER_06 30:36

Yeah, thank you.

SPEAKER_02 30:39

In September 2024, Detective Senior Constable Greg McDougall pulled over a known drug dealer to search the car. Greg had reached into the idling vehicle to remove the keys from the car's ignition when the driver suddenly put his foot down and sped off. Greg was dragged along the road for several meters before being run over. Remarkably, he survived, but that was just the beginning of a very long journey which has brought him here today. Greg, thanks for coming in, mate. Oh, I'm sorry. And nothing makes me happier to see you've just come from an actual job where you're you know, kicking in a door. Yeah, that's right. Back on the tools, yeah, kitted up in ready to roll. Okay. So it's been a long journey. I saw the vision um of of you getting run over, and honestly, my heart stopped. And I think a lot of people, and certainly your colleagues and everything, were but didn't think you had a shot. Yeah. How bad were you injured after?

SPEAKER_08 31:34

Um yeah, I can't re I can't remember any of it. And um, yeah, people have told me that, you know, they've seen the video and that and I don't want to see it, you know. Of course. Um yeah, so yeah, um, yeah, I guess I was I was very lucky, I guess, on the day and um eighteen eighteen broken ribs, I heard.

SPEAKER_02 31:53

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_08 31:54

Punctured lung punctured lung, yeah. Um liver? Yeah, liver contus I think yeah, contusion and um Yeah, also obviously um I broke my um my humerus in a couple of places um and radial nerve damage and yeah, my right ankle I still don't have feeling in my leg or or my arm, but I've I've got movement of it. I it was limp at the start. But luckily I went to like a good occupational therapist, um, at Innovate um occupational therapy and also um yeah, a good surgeon, Dr.

SPEAKER_02 32:25

Alex O'Burn in in Murdoch and Yeah, I've I'm just glad I've got used to my arm and well I mean it also great attitude from yourself and I think everybody in the Blue family knows you knows that's you know, you surprisingly were up and about. Geez, there was there was another officer, and I'll I'll bring this in here because we don't talk about your attitude, but um where you were run over was was actually really close, maybe just a couple of blocks away from where another member of our blue family, constable Anthony Woods, was run down and killed by a meth addict. Um I remember there was a a a commemorative walk uh I think uh uh for for for to raise money for police legacy uh in Anthony's honour. And you were there and you walked around the lake and I I didn't know if you were you were gonna live or die, and there you were.

SPEAKER_08 33:14

Yeah, that was a couple of months, yeah, a couple of months later. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 33:16

From the very get-go, um, how important was it to have that attitude of I'm I'm gonna I'm gonna give it my all?

SPEAKER_08 33:23

Um I had a lot of support from my family and my girls or twin brother. Um and also obviously um you know, with Todd and Nat and Nathan and Brooke. The the Woods family. So I'll keep in constant touch with them and I guess um yeah, to get up there and um yeah, just show support to them. It was more more that and uh you know, meet other you know, colleagues that that supported me throughout. So yeah, it was just important I thought it was important to get up there and and see them all and um yeah.

SPEAKER_02 33:57

Taking you back really quickly to when you're in hospital, I know it's all a bit of a blur and it was a tough time for you. You had some you had some uh some visitors, safe to say. Oh a lot, yeah.

SPEAKER_08 34:06

Uh a lot of visitors, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 34:08

Commissioner came and visited you, I know.

SPEAKER_08 34:09

Yeah, the governor. Yeah, the governor Chris Dawson and um Paul Papalea, the um the mini the minister of police at the time. That's um Yeah, a lot of um my boss is Jeff Barros. Um he's currently superintendent out of Midland. Uh great guy. Um Matt Froud is in Midwest at the moment. Yeah, and um yeah, just a lot of support. A lot of um guys from my team at Drug and Firearms Squad, they came and visited me and and their family, friends. Yeah, a lot of my old friends, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 34:38

I um I just recall a story that um and I can't but there was somebody who I don't even know if you remember this, but who had come and visited you in hospital when you were still in intensive care and your dad had come in. Oh and at the time your dad was still he was still um had a farm in the wheat belts. Yes. Um because there is tough and then there's wheat belt tough, because I'm telling you right now, like wheat belt farmer tough is that famously your dad, you're you know, you're off work and he's sort of asking you how long you're gonna be off work for and you said, Oh, it's probably gonna be a while, Dad, and he's sort of apparently gone, Well Greg, does it maybe you can come up and help me with the tractor?

SPEAKER_08 35:16

In November sort of the same with us. Um I guess I know that would be in yeah, hay cutting, like the hunt, yeah, cutting hay, they still help out on the farm, Daniel Wikipon. And um, yeah, um I'll try and get back there when I can, but yeah, there's time. I guess time doesn't I don't have that much.

SPEAKER_02 35:33

Well he saw his he saw his opportunity and he went straight for it. But uh you had a pretty good excuse not to not to to go up and help that particular time. No. Um okay. So the journey to recovery has been literally has been years, hasn't it?

SPEAKER_08 35:47

Yeah. Um it's been what a year and a half now, just over a year and a half.

SPEAKER_02 35:51

Yeah. Um but you've always had that commitment. You all you said to me from the very beginning, you always wanted to come back to work.

SPEAKER_08 35:57

Yeah. Just listen to um listen to your um, you know, the profession medical professional. Of course, yeah. Um physiotherapists and um occupational therapy and just do your rehab, what they tell you. Go to the gym. I I yeah, go to the gym a fair bit, s six days a week and just um get your strength back. Um that's the hardest thing, how quickly you lose your strength was probably the biggest thing. And it took like a week and I was like light lightning on yeah, I was sort of lost a fair bit of like m muscle wastage in my arm, you know. So just trying to get back back into it, I guess. And um yeah.

SPEAKER_02 36:32

At least you had some in the beginning to lose, Greg. Uh I've got no excuse for you to be honest.

SPEAKER_08 36:36

Um Yeah, it was just yeah, you just notice that a little bit when you look in the mirror. Of course, yeah. And scarring and that, but yeah.

SPEAKER_02 36:44

But um And what about the team, like and your mates and the blue family? Um, you know, were they kind of did they help out around the street? Yeah, yeah, 100%. Yeah.

SPEAKER_08 36:52

So yeah, they came. Um I spoke to um a senior sergeant Aaron Rzinski, um, and he's a really um down-to-earth supportive um supervisor at Drunk and Firearms Squad, and uh he organised for the social club to come out and and do a bit about around the house because I knew it was uh getting left a bit, so it was like soap wolves were sinking and you know things needed cleaning and um lawns needed vertimoing. So I had about 18 or 20 guys from from you know from Drunk and Firearms Squad come out and give me a hand. So uh yeah, no, it was really good.

SPEAKER_11 37:28

Did anyone call up and ask why is there a heavy police presence in your house?

SPEAKER_08 37:34

No, a couple of guys like um uh uh cowboy, uh fellow that we work with, he bought he's got all the equipment, so he's really handy on the tools. And nah nah, there was probably about I don't know, six or seven, you know, like cars roll up and nah it's really good.

SPEAKER_02 37:50

You ended up with like a second and third story in the next out the back.

SPEAKER_08 37:55

I just supervised and there while the guys sort of did a fair bit. That was just um yeah, it was just good that the guys got together and came out and and helped out. You um see them and put a barbecue on.

SPEAKER_02 38:07

So you've just as we we sort of said, you've just done a door. You're you're you're back at work, you're operational. Yeah. How was that first day coming back?

SPEAKER_08 38:16

Um a little bit. It was a little bit nerve-wracking. Yeah. Um I think it was so Tuesday, um Tuesday, two weeks ago, I requalified. And then uh so I'm part of Task Force Maverick now, so basically um task force to to police the um illicit tobacco and the vape stores and going after the organised crime and and element behind all of that. Yep, and all the extortions that are occurring over that. Um we are coming to an end of it, but um we still react to to to arsons that occur overnight. Um yeah, so so that's interesting, but last week traffic stop, same same sort of thing for um Hardy Sad. Um uh accused he's being charged now. Same thing as a traffic stop.

SPEAKER_02 39:06

And and involved in illegal tobacco.

SPEAKER_08 39:08

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. He was. Um and uh he he had another dri someone else driving the vehicle. He was in the front passenger seat. We pulled up a set of lights, got to get out, same thing, and the walk the door wouldn't open because it was auto locked on the MG auto locked. And he said, I'm sitting there pulling the door, it's not opening. I'm like, Oh, here we go, here we go. But luckily, um I had a colleague there, Dave Fairbrother, he uh he helped out and uh yeah, he said, basically if you don't open your doors, you'd be coming out the window. So yeah, ended up stopping and yeah, it all became controlled, but it was just a little bit bit skipped, you know, a little bit bit of flashback, you know. But yeah. But no, we got shot. Yeah, so that was yeah, only last week. But uh yeah, I guess um yeah, a lot of it depends on your team and who you work with and trusting your colleagues and um yeah, it's just good to get it back out in the road.

SPEAKER_02 39:56

My takeaway from all of that is that if you're currently involved in the business of illegal tobacco, this is a guy who does not give up easy. I I I'd be I'd be worried. I'd be I'd be closing putting the the close sign on the door for sure and just getting right out of that business. Yeah. Um, Greg, would you I mean look, in terms of um, you know, uh advice to people who because a big part of this podcast is people who want to join the West Australia Police Force. And we want to be really honest with them. You know, the the fact this is such an important job, it's a tough job, and nobody knows that better than than yourself. You've really been through it. Would you still recommend that people join, and if so, why?

SPEAKER_08 40:34

Yeah, 100%. I mean, I've I it's something I always wanted to do when I was since I was young, and uh I've been doing it what almost 19 years now, and um it's just uh I guess um people say it changes a little bit, it does change you as a person because you see a lot of um things that you generally don't see as uh uh a normal person in the community.

SPEAKER_02 40:56

As a wheel as a farm in the wheat belt.

SPEAKER_08 40:58

That's right, yeah, that's right, because I was, you know, like you get brought up uh a little bit naive, I guess, and and you don't believe some things that you see that happen. But really enjoy the camaraderie. Guys you work with, you've got full support of the community, you've got um um supervisors and bosses that look after you. And also the health and welfare um side of it like they've been really good. Like I didn't had to um I've had the full support, you know, with from you know, psychology part of it, um the mental health my physical injuries, like they utilized the best you know, like Pat Murdoch, the best surgeon. So I was looked after really well. They f flew my brother down from Darwin. Amazing. Put him in, you know, when something did happen, they really reached out. My family, I've got three young daughters, and yeah, I can't complain or have nothing to say about that. They're really good. Amazing. And um, yeah, the support even from the hospital and and the Ambos paramedics done a awesome job.

SPEAKER_02 42:00

I think the last thing uh to bookend this is that the the uh the person, the criminal who who ran you over has pleaded guilty and will be sentenced next week. So um I I I know that you have been close to Anthony Woods' family um and just the similarity there. I know you were at the sentencing um when his killer uh was given sentenced to 15 years in prison. Um is it was it that an emotional day for you and are you do you think next week's gonna be an interesting one?

SPEAKER_08 42:31

Um yeah, it was hard for me, but I I obviously think of Todd and Nat and of course and Nathan and Brooke and what they've been through and I I um I see them every now and then. I spoke I well I spoke with um Nat last week. Generation catching up, um been camping with Todd and Nathan and with his mates down in Nana. Um Yeah, I mean I sort of more feel for them than I and sometimes I feel a little bit I don't know, not guilty, but you know, I survived and you know there it it's hard for them.

SPEAKER_02 43:10

Very glad you're still here, mate. We really are. And um I'd say they would be thinking exactly the same. You're a top loke. And um wish you all the best, back on the job. Look out, bad guys. He's back, baby. He's back.

SPEAKER_08 43:26

Yeah, and and yeah, unexplained wealth, drugs, cash, and uh any assets that need to be frozen. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 43:36

All right. Look forward to it. Bad guys on notice. Thanks very much. Thanks very much again, Greg.

SPEAKER_08 43:40

Yeah, no worries.

SPEAKER_02 43:42

And we've just received some breaking news. The man who ran Greg McDougall over has just received eleven and a half years prison. He's just been sentenced to eleven and a half years with uh no parole eligibility for nine and a half years.

SPEAKER_11 44:00

Great outcome for Greg and for the Blue family and everyone that worked on that case to secure that result. So fantastic work by all involved.

SPEAKER_02 44:08

Thank you very much to everybody who was involved, who supported Greg, and also did some great investigative work to get that result in court.

SPEAKER_01 44:17

All units, the WA police force is looking for people. All kinds of people. People into tech, into cardio, into four-wheel driving, dog people, and horse people. People who like motorbikes, pushbikes, planes, helicopters, and boats. People who are big on community, helping others and solving true crime, not just watching it, you know. Ordinary people who are up for doing extraordinary things.

SPEAKER_04 44:39

If you could be one of these people, you've found your people. Search Let's Join Forces.

SPEAKER_11 44:46

You're listening to WA Police Confidential. Well, joining us once again for the week is Senior Media Liaison Officer Claire Sienta. Claire, welcome back to the podcast. What's been happening around Perth?

SPEAKER_07 44:57

Thanks for having me. Well, on Monday around 11:30, uh, if you were around Herdzman Lake, you might have seen two juveniles who were illegally fishing at Herdzman Lake and creating a bit of a disturbance. So some disorderly behavior, quite um some serious criminal offences there. But but sadly, during their fishing, um, they hooked a black swan, and later that that swan was located deceased. So I'll be very clear that that that part of it is an RSPCA investigation and they are looking into it. Um, but as for the disorderly behavior that is being investigated by police.

SPEAKER_02 45:31

That is definitely a police matter. I mean, that's horrific. It's really, really sad. Herzman Lake uh, for those who aren't aware, is um a protected wetland uh essentially. Um and our black swans, for those of uh you who are listening and tuning in from overseas, I mean they are they're only our our state emblem. Uh they're beautiful, protected species, yeah. Species, and that's just really sad. So as Claire said, if anyone knows anything, call Crimestoppers.

SPEAKER_11 45:57

Yeah, call Crime Stoppers on the 1-800 number or onto the website make a report. Um, and you can be anonymous as well.

SPEAKER_07 46:03

Um meanwhile, in other news, we had a verdict handed down by a judge alone trial in relation to some historic alleged sexual offences involving an AFL player, Barry Cable. So he's a man in his 70s now, but back in 1967, it was alleged that he sexually assaulted a girl who was nine years old at the time. Now, that judge made some comments during their verdict.

SPEAKER_02 46:27

Some pointed comments, yes.

SPEAKER_07 46:28

Yeah, very pointed comments, and and said that while he generally accepted that the the alleged victim in this matter was likely that she was telling the truth, um, he was not persuaded of guilt beyond reasonable doubt.

SPEAKER_02 46:43

And those historic um cases can be very, very difficult um to investigate, Nate, as police officers, and certainly you know it'd be difficult in in in terms of uh the court, the legal process. But I think it's just fair to point out this at this point in time that we have uh an online portal called Safe to Say that we will always look at any allegation, regardless of how old it is, and that you should come forward because for every one of these high profile cases um where uh perhaps maybe the result has been, as we've seen, a not guilty verdict. There are many cases where somebody has come to us with information that have resulted in in in guilty verdicts too. So we just want to make that really clear.

SPEAKER_07 47:38

Um and on a lighter note, um obviously something that has taken social media by storm in the last week has been the worshipping of the cactus in the city.

SPEAKER_02 47:47

The cactus sculpture in the middle of Perth, yep.

SPEAKER_07 47:50

Yes, so the organizer actually tried to cancel that event on Saturday, but it did go ahead and it had about 500 people uh worshipping the cactus in Forest Place on Saturday. So, and largely very well behaved. I think there was one move on notice issued, but um, otherwise it was a very positive vibe.

SPEAKER_02 48:09

Okay, all right. Well, um let's let's just never do that again, Hurt, because that was weird. That was that was really weird. I mean it was kind of funny.

SPEAKER_11 48:18

Hey, it's good to see kids getting out off their devices and uh doing something a little bit more creative and enjoying the weather, but um, it's still weird.

SPEAKER_02 48:26

It was still pretty thanks very much, Claire, and we'll speak to you again next week.

SPEAKER_07 48:32

No worries, thanks.

SPEAKER_11 48:33

You're listening to WA Police Confidential.

SPEAKER_09 48:43

Welcome back to Operation Podcasts. Now, kittens are usually seen in your house, at a pet shelter, where you can adopt them. But this one down in Esperance was stuck in a drain pipe and it needed a hand to get out. So local police stepped in and now it's safe with the vets. But we are joined by first class constable Todd Ross, who was there on the day. Todd, what was the call like when you first when it first came through that a kitten was stuck down a drain pipe?

SPEAKER_02 49:13

Did you think it was a kid stuck down a drain pipe at first, by the way?

SPEAKER_10 49:17

Um, no, so the call came from a worker from Woolworths who'd heard uh a cat in quite a bit of a kitten in quite a bit of distress over about three nights. Um and she wasn't really sure where it was coming from, as uh, there's some like barbed wire just over the fence where she works. Um so yeah, she I think she's a cat owner herself. So she was in a bit of she was a bit upset by hearing the crying over multiple nights.

SPEAKER_02 49:40

She's a cat sympathizer, go on. Yep.

SPEAKER_10 49:42

Yeah, she I think it was quite it'd been quite wet as well. So she was a bit worried it was stuck and yeah, in a bit of trouble. So um when we rocked up, we'd heard we'd heard a couple of kittens um meowing, but nothing like what she had described.

SPEAKER_02 49:57

Okay. Yeah.

SPEAKER_10 49:59

Did it take much to locate the the No, so where Woolworth is situated, there's a block of units behind. So we've gone around, asked the one of the ladies who occupied the house just to go into her backyard. Um, and I could hear, I could hear it crying. Um, and it was probably one of the, yeah, one of the worst cries I've heard from an animal, um, to be honest. And I just looked over the fence and it was in the neighboring property, and I thought it was inside a hot water system because that's where it was coming from. Um, and then I just jumped over the fence and I just saw this tiny little cat with his big blue eyes looking up at me stuck in this in this drain pot. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 50:39

Oh, okay.

SPEAKER_10 50:40

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 50:41

Was it was it difficult to rescue the little guy?

SPEAKER_10 50:44

Um, so we tried to put our hand down there, but it was seemed quite scared. So it was lashing out, trying to trying to grab onto us. Um, you could hear like it was snapping as you put your hand down there, um, trying to bite us. So I just went to the uh the bloke's house, knocked on his window, and asked if I could go into his shed to try and find something to get him out. Um I started with some tongs, just trying to kind of get it up, but it seemed quite stuck. So eventually I ended up with a cable tie, quite a large cable tie, and fed it down the drain pipe. And the cat seemed to just jump kind of just jump into the cable tie. Um and then I just pulled it up with some um some vice grips. Yeah, it just came out, and then we just grabbed it straight away and took it to the vet.

SPEAKER_02 51:29

Not all heroes wear capes. I love that.

SPEAKER_10 51:31

Yeah. Um, it was, yeah, it'd been quite rainy in Esperance. So it was obviously it was very, it's been, I think it'd been there maybe three days. It was quite wet. So I'm actually quite surprised it didn't drown, to be honest. Um, obviously very thankful, but yeah.

SPEAKER_11 51:45

Todd, uh a set of vice grips, a cable tie to rescue a kitten. Uh, have you seen the old episodes of MacGyver? Is that where you drew your inspiration from?

SPEAKER_10 51:56

I haven't, honestly. I just wanted to get something like underneath it, and that was the only thing I could think of, to be honest.

SPEAKER_02 52:00

If you can make a paper, if you can make a helicopter out of a paperclip, then you will know that you've hit MacGyver status, my friend. Um, okay, so so you rescue the cat. I got a I got a question for you. Isn't this a a defense like a fire fire and rescue job? What are police doing doing this?

SPEAKER_10 52:17

Um, honestly, I it is. It totally is. Um, I've got a firing mate who I reached out to and he just he said, Isn't it it's a it's a great place to be when people appreciate you? So um I've had a lot of feedback from friends and stuff, and yeah, it's not something we do every day. But yeah, once myself and my partner had heard the scream, I just couldn't I couldn't leave without grabbing the little um the little cat out of there, to be honest.

SPEAKER_11 52:39

Interestingly, in 2021, uh DFUS issued a directive that they would no longer attend uh jobs where cats were stuck in trees. So um I I think there might be some sort of uh once again police have stepped into this space.

SPEAKER_02 52:55

Uh doing the job of the fire. Uh what about calendars? How do you feel about jumping on a calendar?

SPEAKER_10 53:01

Oh yeah, I don't think I'm in that place just yet.

SPEAKER_02 53:04

Okay.

SPEAKER_09 53:08

Oh, it's like a firefighter calendar, but for police. I like it. I rate this idea.

SPEAKER_02 53:13

The theme is topless cops who've saved cats from drains calendar 2027. It's pretty niche.

SPEAKER_09 53:22

Yeah, very niche. We might only get one or two. Just just January and February.

SPEAKER_02 53:26

Um, and and how is the little guy going? Are you thinking about adopting him? Isn't is he up for adoption? Does he have a name?

SPEAKER_10 53:31

I I rescued a cat um at my old station up in Broome. So I currently have one. Uh here's a handful enough. I did uh put it to my wife, but she uh she declined, unfortunately. But I believe that the lady that works at Woolworth um being the cat lover she is um was gonna reach out to Safe and try and adopt uh her herself.

SPEAKER_02 53:53

That's a great ending.

SPEAKER_09 53:55

I love the happy ending.

SPEAKER_02 53:56

Yeah, what about the name? Definitely does the cat have a did you give the cat a name?

SPEAKER_09 54:00

Piper. Um I didn't.

SPEAKER_10 54:03

No, no, I didn't. It's gotta be Piper, surely. Yeah, too much um too much connection, then I would have to take it home.

SPEAKER_09 54:09

So absolutely. Well, thank you so much, Todd, for having a chat with us today.

SPEAKER_10 54:14

No worries.

SPEAKER_02 54:20

Thanks for listening to WA Police Confidential. I'm still getting used to that, Nate. It's gonna take some getting too used to, isn't it? But uh stick with us. Stick with us, stick with us. Uh History Fact of the Week. What do you got for me?

SPEAKER_11 54:32

So last week I asked you how long our amazing WA police pipe band had been around for. Can you guess how long?

SPEAKER_02 54:38

No, no idea.

SPEAKER_11 54:39

Okay, well, this year we'll be celebrating the Diamond Anniversary for the Police Pipe Band, which means 60 years of pipes and drums for the agency.

SPEAKER_02 54:48

Incredible. I'm giving them a tartan out of ten.

SPEAKER_11 54:51

Oh no. Okay. Uh look, bonus fact, on top of that, um, the last 60 years, there have been more than 200 members working within that unit. So uh yeah, it's a lot of history in itself there.

SPEAKER_02 55:04

A lot of pipers piping. That's right. Uh, if you're interested in joining our blue family, the WA police force.

SPEAKER_11 55:11

We're recruiting, so jump online and search up Let's Join Forces, have a read of uh what it takes to become a police officer and submit your application.

SPEAKER_02 55:19

To it. And if you've got a question for for us, for the police commissioner, something you want to hear about, you can get in touch with us.

SPEAKER_11 55:26

Yeah. Uh so it's going to be a bit difficult because it'll be operation.podcast at police.wa.gov.au. Uh however, we are the WA Police Confidential Podcast.

SPEAKER_02 55:37

We're getting there. Uh thanks very much for sticking with us. Please stick with us. And we'll we've got a really big show for you next week. Um just uh spoiler alert, Nazis and snakes. Two things that really I don't know. I mean, do they go together? Yeah, I think they do. Snakes and Nazis. Oh yeah, Indiana Jones, yeah. Cool. All right, thanks very much. This is WA Police Confidential.

SPEAKER_00 56:30

Sound editing by Joe and Danny, cover song by the WA Police Pipe Band, and Cheesy Podcast The Music by Joey Catenzaro. By the way, why just listen to a podcast about policing when you could actually be doing it? Let's joinforces.wa.gov.au