Ep 14 - Taz Joins the Show!

Episode 14 of WA Police Confidential! The official WA Police Force Podcast.

On this week’s show:

- Reality Star and Police Sergeant Taz Etto joins the show!

- Vote now on the Take Down of the Year!

- Police Dog Digga and is handler, Francis Wigger talk about Digga's 100th arrest.

- We chat to a Police Prosecutor!

- All this and more!!!

Transcript

SPEAKER_05 0:00

This podcast discusses real-life crimes and law enforcement matters. It may include detailed descriptions of criminal activity, traumatic incidents, and other content that could be confronting or distressing, particularly for victim survivors. Listener discretion is advised. If you find any of these topics upsetting, please consider whether this content is right for you and seek support if needed.

SPEAKER_09 0:29

Welcome back to WA Police Confidential, the official weekly podcast of the Western Australian Police Force. I'm Joey Katanzaro.

SPEAKER_05 0:36

I'm Claire Sienta.

SPEAKER_09 0:37

And coming up this week, we're going to reveal how police can now use your own car as evidence against you in court if you've committed a crime.

SPEAKER_05 0:46

Really?

SPEAKER_09 0:47

Claire, you could say the wheels of justice have turned.

SPEAKER_05 0:50

Ah, how about where you hit the brakes on the puns right now?

SPEAKER_09 0:53

Claire, no can do. No can do.

SPEAKER_05 0:55

Okay, well, speaking of justice and courts, we'll be talking to one of our police prosecutors about how they secured a conviction in a very interesting case.

SPEAKER_09 1:04

I'll be the judge of that.

SPEAKER_05 1:06

Seriously, I object. But moving on, we'll also have some breaking news in the show today.

SPEAKER_09 1:10

That's right. Our loyal listeners will recall we spent several weeks unpacking the investigation into the murder of son, brother, father, and underworld boss Nick Martin.

SPEAKER_05 1:20

Worth going back to episode three to have a listen if you're new to the pod.

SPEAKER_09 1:23

Yep. Well, the sniper who pulled the trigger and assassinated Nick Martin is already serving a 20-year stretch in prison. But today, David Pye, the bikey who ordered the hit on Nick Martin, learns his fate. This is sentencing Declare in one of the most extraordinary cases the WA police force has ever cracked.

SPEAKER_05 1:43

That's pretty interesting stuff. And police dog Digger hit a milestone this week with his 100th arrest, which makes him the very goodest boy currently serving in our canine unit. Also, there's a new police puppy dog we're going to get to meet.

SPEAKER_09 1:57

Love that. But coming up in just a moment, we're going to kick off this week's pod with something new called Takedown of the Week.

SPEAKER_05 2:04

You're listening to WA Police Confidential.

SPEAKER_09 2:11

So if you're a trade and you've done what needs doing, people might look at you or looked at something that you've built and fixed and said, you know what, good job. If you're an office worker and you've done something good in the office, hit your KPIs or nail that project, your colleagues would most likely also say, good job. But now in policing, doing a good job mostly means responding to an urgent call for help in our community and making the situation safe, which means arresting people. Which brings me to something that may be a little bit controversial, but it's something new on our WA police media socials called Takedown of the Weak. This is police lawfully, professionally arresting people, breaking the law and doing harm in our community. Now I just want to quickly point out before we get into this we aren't celebrating the fact that we need to arrest people. We're not in any way looking to demean the person we're arresting. This is simply us allowing police to say good job to each other and allowing members of our community to vote on what they think is the takedown of the week. Now, what would I know? I'm not a police officer. Luckily, I do have a police officer with me. You might recognise him. Dulcet Tones. Yeah. Taz Eto, formerly uh of the block, a little little show you might have seen on uh on the the TV. Taz, you are a police officer first and foremost, before you you were a B grade celebrity. Emphasis on the B grade there. I mean obviously a block grade is what I was going for. Absolutely. Yeah, that's what I meant. Nice say Taz, but um, but mate, how important like is arresting people, you know, in terms of the context of policing?

SPEAKER_03 3:55

Arresting people is one of the most important things that we do in the job. It's it's what we're employed for. Um, but it's also the biggest thing that we can do because you're taking away someone's liberty. So exactly what you touched on there, Joey, it's it's so serious that once you place someone under arrest, you've taken that liberty off them. And we're not dealing with people that are your run-of-the-mill sort of people. These are people that have done seriously wrong things um and seriously hurt people or seriously hurt property or broken the law in some way, and we need to talk to them. Um, but the only way to take that from that liberty from them is to is to put them under arrest. So to investigate that, that's what we need to do. Um, but in this job, especially, um, we do have a habit of not saying good job enough. Sure. Um, and this is the best way, is it's we it's a very positive way that we see it amongst the crews, the guys and the girls out there, to for people to say, Oh well, good job. Look what you've done. You've you've brought this person in front of the courts, or you've brought this person to justice um and you've done it in the right way.

SPEAKER_09 4:55

Uh in this case, it's it's an arrest. And um, I guess context is everything, right? So on our socials this week, you are going to see the first batch of our takedown of the week videos. You can vote on which one you think uh is the takedown of the week, and this will continue for several weeks, leading up to our uh WA Police Recognition of Excellence Awards, where the people's choice winner of the takedown of the week will be announced and receive a prize from the police commissioner who is proud of his officers who put themselves in harm's way arresting people who are doing harm in our community. So, with that in mind, Taz, can you talk us through the the jobs that we've got up there this week? Give us a bit of context because I just want to say the first one looks like we are just having a laugh at a crook who somehow manages to give himself a wedgie whilst trying to escape police custody.

SPEAKER_03 5:52

And the thing with that is we're not looking at laughing at the crook that's trying to run away. We're never looking at that. But with arresting people, no matter if it's the 10th time or the hundredth time you've arrested that crook, and a lot of the time we arrest the same people again and again, you can never really plan for it. And I'm I'm not some expert um on arresting, like I've been in the job for five years, and there's gonna be people watching this that have been in the job for 10, 15, 20 years, and there's an art to arresting people, um, and you've really got to nail it down, but you can't plan arrests again. As I said, whether it's the 10th time or the 100th time, something can go differently. You might have pecked up. Like a wedgie on the on the on a colour born fence, you know, you just never know what's gonna happen. So, in this in this scenario, we've got uh the Balladura police responding to a job, and this is as I said, you can't plan anything. This is policing 101. You've turned up to an address where there's a family domestic violence incident.

SPEAKER_09 6:43

Very serious, very serious. So, straight away we've got context that shows that this is someone who had to be arrested going.

SPEAKER_03 6:49

And we've got to get there as soon as we can and create the environment safe, which is exactly what you touched on, Joey. So they've been to this address many times, they've dealt with this crook many times. Um, and usually what happens is if he has done something wrong, they'll arrest him, and that will be that. The investigation will continue, and then bail, charged, arrest, everything goes ahead like that. In this case, the Ballager of Coppers have turned up to that same address. The crook from this address has usually run away, and you know, because they can hear the sirens coming, because we come quick, but the sirens are telling not only the suspect we're coming, but we mainly do it for the victims. We want the victims to know those sirens, they're coming to help you, yeah, and that's what we're doing. So, usually at this address, the crook buggers off before we get there. This time, the crook hasn't buggered off, and the coppers have found him. So the coppers have placed him under arrest and have grabbed him by the very loose-fitting shirt. Um, very, very small compound that they're in. Uh, the crook has able to manoeuvre his way out of that grapple hold and legged it for the back fence. Not too uncommon. All right, this this happens time and time again. Again, you can never plan fully for an arrest. It's how you respond to those trying circumstances. Of course, yeah, is determined how how good or bad the arrest can be. So, what this copper has done has absolutely textbook, chased after the crook, gone through doors to get to him. Um, the crook has tried to jump the back of the room.

SPEAKER_09 8:16

He's gone, he's tried to he's gone over, and the copper's taken a very different approach, hasn't he?

SPEAKER_03 8:20

The copper's decided, you know what, I can run through this fence. It's amazing. It's it's unbelievable. It's it's um just the the fight to get to this crook, to get through a fence like that, um, all in the name of justice, like cannot speak highly enough with this copper. Um, he's pushed through the fence. What we've been able to capture is the um the crook has also pinged himself on the fence and his jock strap has uh ended up around his head, um, resulting in a pretty intense wedgie.

SPEAKER_09 8:46

I think that's that's the policing terminology is uh wedgie.

SPEAKER_03 8:49

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 8:50

Yeah, I don't think there's any more of a formal way you can say that, right?

SPEAKER_03 8:53

No, no. No, and in no we're not trying to disrespect the crooker anyway, but you you're in the nicest possible way, you you play silly games, you win silly prizes. It's uh 100% true.

SPEAKER_09 9:05

Hopefully, this is a deterrent from anyone who's thinking about committing a crime. You don't want to end up swinging from a fence by uh by your undies deer.

SPEAKER_03 9:13

No, but the and again, and I'll go back to such I'm no expert in in arresting. I've I've done a fair share of my arrests in my in my five years in the job, both across the Metro and the regions, and sometimes they run away, sometimes we're not quick enough, you know. We're also carrying 15 kilos worth of gear. So the copper in this footage that you'll see is carrying 10 to 15 kilos worth of gear, and he's got to go through a fence to grab this crook that's done something wrong to a family member. Um, and the end result is they've taken this crook and they've put him in front of the courts and brought him to justice for the victims as well. So, as as much as it's a good job, and you know, there's a bit of hey, we got the crook in a bit of a different way, we still got the crook, and that's the final result they're making.

SPEAKER_09 9:52

That's what this is about. Lawful takedown of the week. Um, we'll just have a quick listen to some of the uh the audio from the body one camera. Okay, so that was the sound of a police officer running through a fence. Pretty, pretty cool. Taz, gotta be hard to beat that one, I reckon. What else what else have we got this week? What what's up against the uh the wedge you on the fence?

SPEAKER_03 10:18

So we go from one extreme to the other. So we go from the hustle and bustle of Balladura Police Station to Albany Police Station, down south, beautiful weather, still chaos. You know, there's always gonna be chaos, and that's why we've got some coppers down there, that's policing, got good coppers down there doing the job. This one, I'm not gonna say it falls into their lap, but I you know, a bit of impromptu policing sees a vehicle drive past the police station, past the Dan Murphy's the main street of Albany, and um with a Victoria Bitter bottle on top of the uh on top of the car. So the guys in there Nat Dreddy stopped the car. Um I've asked the the the crook in the car if he's uh consumed alcohol while driving a driving the vehicle.

SPEAKER_09 11:00

Actually, you know what, let's just listen to this.

SPEAKER_03 11:02

Listen to this is pretty good.

SPEAKER_09 11:03

It is pretty good experience.

SPEAKER_07 11:05

Just a quick thing.

SPEAKER_09 11:30

I gotta I mean they were so professional. I I personally probably would have been not able to necessarily um yeah, a few more choice words could have been said. Indeed, indeed. They were really professional, and I think it goes to show just you know the the level of respect that police officers do afford to people in the community. But you know, again, we've got to bring it back as much as these things we look at these and go, this is an unusual situation um possibly amusing at the same time. So many police officers, and your wife, Britt's one of them, have been to fatal crashes where alcohol has been a factor.

SPEAKER_03 12:04

And we can we can poke fun, we can laugh, we can make jokes, but at the end of the day, this bloke is six times the legal limit. Yeah. And he's driving a motor vehicle. And and the issue that we have is we will sometimes be at booze buses or you know, doing random breath tests, and we will get a lot of comments about oh, what are we doing? We're wasting our time. We're never wasting our time because we've got people around that think it's okay to be driving at this limit and or under the influence of drugs, and um, we see firsthand what the impact of that is. And when we're dragging bodies off the road, um, not so much me personally, but the coppers that are out there every day, even right now, that are doing the hard yards, see it firsthand, and that's why we need to get people like this off the road.

SPEAKER_09 12:45

100%. And we um we spoke to Major Crash not long ago, and you can listen to that one of our previous episodes. It was um it's it's it's it's pretty grim, it's really difficult.

SPEAKER_05 12:56

It's pretty confronting the stuff that they they deal with. So something like this is probably good that we caught it when we did.

SPEAKER_09 13:01

Yeah, yeah. Um so okay, your professional opinion, and obviously this is not to sway anybody who might be voting and voting member of the public. What do you reckon? Which one, which one wins in your book?

SPEAKER_03 13:12

Oh, look, it's it's hard to go past the balladera wedgie, but I'm a I'm a cop through and through, and I I love the chase a little bit more than I probably should, just because you never expect it. You know, like, no, you've done the wrong thing, you deserve to be held accountable. But if they run, I need to get you because the level of disrespect for the per for the victims and for the police, so um, we're very much, and being from Newman Police Station, where everybody runs away from you, you have to really be switched on. The work that that copper did in Balladura really embodies what policing's about is victim-first mentality but offender accountability. And we got him, um, and that was a great result for him.

SPEAKER_09 13:48

I am never ever going to criticize, and I don't think anybody would a police officer who actually enjoys their job catching baddies. So, Taz, thanks very much for coming on the podcast. And um, hopefully see you next week.

SPEAKER_03 14:02

Yeah, yeah, no, thanks for having me. It only took eight episodes, but I finally got on. So um Britt was our first choice. Yeah. So I've heard, but luckily she's busy, she's on the road. So all right, flashing ahead.

SPEAKER_09 14:14

This is uh WA Police Confidential. Don't forget to head over to our socials and have your say on who you think should win our takedown of the year award. Body worn camera and how to vote details. They're all there. Get your vote on. WA police dog Digger clocked up his 100th arrest this week, the highest tally of any of our currently serving police dogs. His handler, Sergeant Francis Wigger, joins us on the pod. Francis Wigger and Digger. Is that a coincidence? It is, it is. It's a funny coincidence, but yeah, I mean, it's nothing planned in that. There's a there's a sitcom in the making right there, I I think. Um okay, tell us about the 100th arrest. Uh, was it was it anything out of the ordinary?

SPEAKER_11 15:11

For us, it wasn't, to be honest. It was, you know, a standard sort of job, but um we were in Como at the time and then we got called to a uh breaking in progress, pretty much. Hotburg. Hotburg, they call it, exactly. We were maybe a couple of minutes from the scene. So when we arrived, I've got to decide like quickly, I look from a Google Map point of view where I'll deploy the dog to sort of best get an arrest, I guess. Um, the local units came, so they went into the front of the house. And if you can imagine there's a side street, long side street that backed onto a park. So that's where me and Digger posted up because if there was people in there, they'll likely flee our direction. Correct. We can get involved. Um but the local unit from Kensington, they cleared the address, said the offenders had fled. And so I put Digger sort of close to the fence line where I think they may have jumped over and then bang, he's hit sent and off we went.

SPEAKER_09 16:04

Wow. Yeah.

SPEAKER_11 16:05

Started tracking and he's tracking them down.

SPEAKER_09 16:07

Mm-hmm. Okay. So these these are guys, these are people who've been in a house burglaring uh burglaring. Sorry to get technical with everyone burglaring the house. Uh the burglar in the house said uh and and there was someone home at the time, was there?

SPEAKER_11 16:22

Or just it came because the job was so fresh and so hot. We're getting the information as the job was coming in. Wow because we did a we did a better job than expected. We were there as it was kind of unfolding. So what had happened was it was an elderly couple that lived at the house. The neighbor next door was taking his bins out at about 11 at night, and he seen three men, um, suspicious-looking men, not related to these elderly couple, jump the fence. Okay, sorry, jump the fence, and then go around the back. He's kind of shouted at them and then thought, you know, thought something was up. So we phoned police and said, Hey, you need to get here quick. This house is about to get uh broken into. So he did a really good job. Um, and then when we've arrived, there wasn't enough time to sort of go through the process of searching the house because it was so fresh. So they had only just jumped the fence, we'd assumed, within the last five minutes. Um, and then that's where the dog came in.

SPEAKER_09 17:14

Wow, okay. So did you actually have to deploy as in let him off the leash?

SPEAKER_11 17:20

No, so I kept him on lead and I pretty much asked him to track. So find me these guys, and then he went nose to ground, and then if you imagine we're looking sort of at the house in front of us, I was expecting him to pull me back to where the bush was and where the parkland was, because naturally that's where you think people would run, but he didn't, he shot me up the road um along a footpath, and I could tell by his behaviour that we were on him and pretty fast, and so he tracked me maybe 700 metres to the Canning Bridge bus station, and that's a large bus port. Um, even though it was sort of 10:30, it was still busy with civilians. So at that point I had to pull up um because it was gonna get dangerous for them. The dog's out and we're we're effectively hunting. Um, and so I've called in the ground units to break Corden and come into the bus port and let's start searching it. We had a description of what these suspects look like. Um, so I just said, can we go through the bus station, train station? I'm pretty confident that they're gonna be here. Um and I think within a couple of minutes the police air wing flew over and they radioed that we have three suspects matching the description. They're about to board a city-bound bus to get out of the area. Um, and then they actually got on the bus, the bus took off, and then the local units intercepted the bus and arrested him. Wow.

SPEAKER_05 18:38

Yeah, that is incredible work. And what's it like when you're um, you know, being led by the the dog and and he's on the hunt and he's got that scent? What is that feeling like? Can you describe it?

SPEAKER_11 18:50

I've done it a lot, but it's still it's pretty amazing to watch it unfold when because you're the passenger as such. I'm asking the dog to search and he's doing it. So there's a range, you're excited, but you're very, well, at least with me, I'm very dialed in um at that point. It's all business. And a dog, even though they don't speak English like we do, they'll give cues and communication. And because we live with our dogs, we work with our dogs, I can tell any sort of behavioural change, whether it's even a flick of the ear, what that means, or a head turn. So I'm just I'm dialed in on what he's doing, and as well, I'm looking forward to sort of assess any threats that may be coming before they arrive. Um and that's just not the bad guys, but that could be someone gone for a run at midnight with their Apple AirPods in on their phone, not looking to see a police dog barreling towards them, or it could be someone taking their bin out. So I've got to be aware of all of that as well. Sure. So when the job's on responsibility, yeah, yeah, yeah. And yeah, when the job's on, I'm sort of dialed in on that. But watching it happen, like unless you're there in real time, it's kind of yeah, it's like watching a magician, really. It's amazing.

SPEAKER_05 19:57

Yeah. And there are some pretty like, you know, that's the 100th arrest. Um, but there've been some pretty big examples, I suppose. That's real. Yeah, highlights real of some of the major arrests. Um, one of them was a a 17-year-old who ended up being charged after alleged pretty brazen attack on a schoolgirl. Um, and that was that's pretty horrific, just those circumstances alone. Um, $11 million worth of cocaine was hidden under a slab as well. And P. D. Digger was part of that arrest. And and I suppose the the one that we have a little bit of um audio from that we'll take a listen to in a minute, but it's um a a stabbing that occurred in Willogy. A man was charged with attempted murder after a pretty horrific attack on a woman in an alleged TV incident.

SPEAKER_09 20:46

I think it's not alleged anymore.

SPEAKER_11 20:48

Yeah, I think he's been we went to trial and he was he was convicted. He was convicted.

SPEAKER_09 20:52

Yeah. Um let's have a listen.

SPEAKER_02 20:56

Please get on, get on the dragon, do it now! Get on the dragon, do it now! Do not move me, don't you be injured? Okay. Stay there. And I'll become a joke. Do you understand?

SPEAKER_09 21:18

Don't move my So it must be pretty satisfying when you know you take somebody like that who's prepared to do horrible things to their partner, you know, actually trying to kill them. Must be pretty satisfying for you and I imagine Digger. Uh, when you know you've taken someone like that off the streets.

SPEAKER_11 21:40

There's yeah, there's i I mean, in the jobs we do, we they're all pretty important to us. A lot of the offenders that we will go after are your higher end sort of suspects. Um, but every so often you'll get that one that really sort of hits home and it's it will dial in just how important it is to take this person out. If you can or take them off the streets.

SPEAKER_09 22:02

I um I there's a question I've always wanted to ask somebody from canine, and I actually never have, but but I'm gonna put it to you if I could process. We always think of police dogs as being this which they are, they are this capability. They are they're fast, they you know cooks are terrified of them. I think in some circles they're even referred to as land sharks. Um but but for you, the digger is your partner and your dog. Do you ever worry about when you're releasing him into a situation that you know is dangerous and sending him into danger? Does is there ever any concern on your part for his welfare?

SPEAKER_11 22:40

All the time. Um part of our training and when we first start off, and at least when I did, some of the head trainers we had sort of five, six years ago, seven, eight years ago, they tell you when when you are partnered up with your dog to try and remember that this dog is bred and born for this specific role.

SPEAKER_09 23:00

Yes.

SPEAKER_11 23:00

It's easy to say that in sort of uh practice. Um I ask myself all the time, am I prepared to to do what's needed? Um and same with the dog, and if we have to go in, then we'll go in and do it.

SPEAKER_09 23:13

And I think so it's interesting that you say that because critics of of police dogs and the use of police dogs will will suggest that you know that that police let them off seriously, or just let them off. It's gotta be a really dangerous situation, doesn't it? And and as we've just heard from you, it's not just a danger to um the officer who's in that situation, you're also reluctant to do it because you don't know you don't know what digger's running into. Now he digger doesn't actually hold the top record for the greatest number of arrests. And there's a bit of an unfair advantage here, but but who does, do we do we think?

SPEAKER_11 23:56

Was it rumble? Police dog rumble, I'd say.

SPEAKER_09 23:58

Police dog rumble. Now, why does rumble have an unfair advantage?

SPEAKER_11 24:02

Well, if a starter, his so his handler, um well, handler at the time, uh Constable Milletta, okay, he was at K9. Um, he left and now he's come back to have another go at it as well. So he's finding the differences in in sort of generations. K9 went through a change around probably 2016, 2017, um, where we were governed by I suppose a harder set of rules of when we can and can't get the dog out and sort of procedures that we have have to follow now that um they didn't have to follow back then. I'm on the fence whether those procedures and rules are a good thing or a bad thing. We can get it, you know, it's a hard, hard game to play, but in a sense, they made us uh add more safety uh at the risk of letting suspects go, if that makes sense. Sure. Whereas back then um we were allowed to deploy for more situations and more crimes if you deemed it fit. I'm not saying they were loose or anything, but they they could just make the call themselves um and deploy the dog and go out and catch the suspects. Whereas now we need a certain set of boxes to be ticked before I can get my dog out and start searching.

SPEAKER_09 25:09

So so Rumble, I think, has close to I think he had uh 200 um solos and maybe 600 combined, something like that. Wow. Okay. Yeah. Wow. So what are Digger's chances of taking the crown?

SPEAKER_11 25:24

Oh look, I don't think he's gonna get there. I don't think he'll make those numbers. But look, when I started, to be honest, so when I first came into canine, I was actually trained by um one of our trainers was uh senior constable Milletta, so Rumble's handler. Rumble had just passed a couple of years prior, um, and there were two other trainers, sort of roll and gamble, Damian Thompson, so three old school heads, and they trained me in the ways I suppose of deploying a dog. And so in my mind, if I could be just like them, if I could sort of um do as well as they have, I'd be happy rather than chasing numbers. But um the way I sort of came about is just before I started with my dogs on the road, because I've had two, they said you're gonna forget, like you're gonna forget every arrest, you're gonna forget every job. So before you begin, every time you arrest someone, just write a little note, a little paragraph, a small story. So when the time comes that you retire, you'll have something to look back on, and you can you can read the the story of the dog, and so that's what I've done, and that's how I know where I'm at and where the dogs are at.

SPEAKER_09 26:25

So you were aware that this was number 100.

SPEAKER_11 26:28

Yeah, and you know what? I didn't actually I like round numbers, I'm a bit OCD. Yeah, so I didn't really care, and then I sort of got to the high 80s, 89, 87, and that don't sound good. So I was just like, if I can just eventually get there, then I'd be happy with that. It's just a nice round figure, and we can leave it around there.

SPEAKER_09 26:47

How how old is Digger now? He's just gone seven and a half, seven and a half, so he might have a couple of years in Yeah.

SPEAKER_11 26:54

So this is my actually my last week at K9. Is it? Yeah. Um I went went through the promotion system and I've just been made up a rank. But thankfully, yeah, look, miss mixed feelings, you know. The time had come whether I wanted it or not. But um they've allowed Digger to stay on for probably an extra 12 months. Yes. Um so he'll be paired up with one of the senior handlers um and do some retraining and then still go out on the road and help the public because usually they'll retire with us. Um, but while he's working, while he's kicking goals and an amazing dog, he will um just keep him out there and and work. And he'll still live with me. Um, but he'll just work with someone else. I love this.

SPEAKER_09 27:36

He's like the Mel Gibson of police dogs, he's just coming back again for uh you know another ions destroyed three city blocks by accident. It keeps him happy, you know. Whatever keeps him happy and working, that's the main thing. Exactly, exactly. Um, look, we actually um are gonna make a quick phone call to someone at the opposite end of the spectrum, someone with a very young police dog that, you know, maybe uh an up-and-comer comer, a a new contender for the crown, possibly. Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 28:04

We're now joined by Sergeant Brian Dance. Thanks for jumping on the pod.

SPEAKER_10 28:08

Thank you, Helen.

SPEAKER_05 28:09

Um, tell us a little bit about this new addition uh to the canine unit, I suppose. Um, yeah, we've got some pretty cute pictures. So tell us a little bit about this guy.

SPEAKER_01 28:21

Yeah, this is that's uh Akani. He's um he's uh many uh just on 10 months old. Um uh back in January, the wife was doing some ironing of the shirts, and uh he was sitting there looking at the shirts and she decided to drop one on. He absolutely loved it. So um and we thought, yeah, that's a that's a real cute photo from back then, and then only last month again um he tried on and looked quite cute. So we thought, yeah, we'll turn those through.

SPEAKER_09 28:50

Right, they are fantastic game. You can see those photos on our socials. Um, I've got to ask, I mean, it is this maybe a consideration for our for our police dogs, and I'll open this up to you too, Francis. Should they have cute uniforms?

SPEAKER_11 29:05

Uh I would say no. That'd be a no from me. I think it sort of defeats the purpose, but hey, it depends on the dog, really. Yeah, yeah. Um, that's true, actually. I mean, I've got to see that, I've got to see the photos when they come up and see how they look. But hey, if he's wearing shirts or hats is quite a balanced dog to be able to wear it and keep it all neat because I know I put anything on Digger, he'll just rip rip them up. They try to do like uh uh bunny ears for Easter or like Santa hats for Christmas for the family, and he does have a bar of it, so the sergeant's dog's probably better behaved in that respect than mine.

SPEAKER_09 29:41

So Brian, this uh look, we've just been talking about how um Digger's just cocked his 100th arrest and is the current serving kind of reigning champion, if you will. Um it's pretty incredible. What do you reckon? 10 months old, bit of bit of uh potential for for your young pup?

SPEAKER_01 30:01

Well, I think he definitely well he's a people person. He um for a for uh he's uh 33 kilos, I think, already, at 10 months old. So he's a solid boy. Loves the uniform.

SPEAKER_11 30:15

That's good. We can uh yeah, we'll send him down for a trial, and if he doesn't work out, we'll send him back. Have to ask your wife first, right?

SPEAKER_09 30:24

So see what she has to say. I love it, I love it. Brian, thanks for coming on. Francis, thank you so much for sharing your time with us. Um, and you know, I guess thank you very much to all the good boys and good girls out there and the people who take care of them. Me too.

SPEAKER_05 30:42

And congratulations on the hundredth arrest.

SPEAKER_09 30:45

Thank you.

SPEAKER_05 30:45

This is WA Police Confidential.

SPEAKER_00 30:49

All units. The WA Police Forces looking for people, all kinds of people, people in the tank, in the comedian, into formal driving, dumb people, and horse people, people who like motor blankets, push buckets, planes, helicopters, and bullets, people who are big on community, helping others and solving true common, not just working at the unit. Ordinary people who are up for doing extraordinary things.

SPEAKER_09 31:12

If you can be one of these people, you've found your people. So much, let's join forces. In the criminal justice system, the people are represented by police who investigate crimes and prosecutors who prosecute offenders. But why not be both? We're joined today by police prosecutor Anthony Van Andel. Anthony, thanks for coming on the podcast. Thanks for having me. Okay. Well, look, there's about 70 odd jobs that you can do over the course of your career as a police officer. It's very diverse. Boss, the commissioner always calls it a bit of a choose your own adventure, um, which is you know one of the good things about the job. You've gone into prosecuting. And before we get into talking about what I think is a really quite interesting legal battle that you you encountered, you won. Can you tell us a little bit about what do police prosecutors do? And how are they different from, say, a prosecutor that works for the Department of Public Prosecution?

SPEAKER_06 32:01

Uh, yeah, thank you. The DPP are a uh legislative government body who predominantly prosecute uh criminal matters in the higher courts. And in Western Australia, it's the district and supreme courts. Uh in the magistrates' court, the the lower court in this state, uh the WA police prosecute uh predominantly criminal matters, which is what I do.

SPEAKER_09 32:22

Okay. So examples might be like give let's let's talk on a because there is a obviously there's a lot of volume crime stuff that happens that's not necessarily you know murder or or something of that nature, or a drug traffickable kind of offense. There's a lot of stuff that happens on a day-to-day basis that probably you guys are in the mix for.

SPEAKER_06 32:44

That's correct. All prosecutions in WA start off in the lower courts, everything from homicides down on its way up to the superior courts. Um often for serious offences on their way up, people apply for bail. We have to argue bail for these serious offences, uh, as well as any um interim procedural applications that pop up. A lot of people proceed to sentence of the lower courts as well.

SPEAKER_05 33:07

So it's quite a diverse uh range of criminal cases that you get that you would see on a daily basis, right?

SPEAKER_06 33:13

Uh yeah, uh trial-wise, we do everything from uh speeding a few kilometres over the limit all the way up to fatal crashes. Oh yeah, right.

SPEAKER_09 33:21

Okay. What about um uh geez, I can remember sitting in court as a reporter and some of the stuff you just couldn't make up. But you must have you must have had a few unusual uh prosecutions in your day.

SPEAKER_06 33:34

Surely the there's some very interesting cases that make it all the way to court, and court is where we have to prove things beyond a doubt. So people can make us prove it, and that's their right.

SPEAKER_09 33:45

Okay. Can you give us an example?

SPEAKER_06 33:47

Yeah, there was a a case recently where um it was a a serious crash in that in terms of it was a car that was alleged to have run over two pedestrians on a footpath in Northbridge.

SPEAKER_09 33:58

Wow, that's okay, that's serious. Yep, yep.

SPEAKER_06 34:00

Yeah, and um if people aren't aware, the city of Perth is blanketed in over a hundred cameras, so the whole thing was caught on City of Perth camera footage.

SPEAKER_09 34:09

Okay.

SPEAKER_06 34:10

And uh the police attended, they conducted their investigations, gathered all their evidence, and uh charged the driver of the car.

SPEAKER_09 34:18

Okay, so we've got we've got a charge for okay, but I feel like there's something else here. There's some there's something more to this uh story.

SPEAKER_06 34:27

That that person was charged for effectively hitting the two people on the footpath, and as is his right, he took it to trial. Okay. Most people don't realize that as a police prosecutor, you're not really working for the police as such, but you work for the court. Which means we're an officer of the court. Okay. So we assist the court to basically get to the truth of the matter. Something that um can take a bit of a while to get a deep understanding of. So in that particular case, the uh attending Perth police um gathered the usual investigations, gathered witnesses, took reports and uh conducted their inquiries, which included uh a search of uh the driver's car, locating some canisters of what's commonly called Nengs or nitrous oxide canisters.

SPEAKER_09 35:13

Hold on a second. What are nangs? You're the youngest person here. Come on.

SPEAKER_05 35:17

Um look, I'm not You're in touch with the streets, aren't you? Well, I'm not a drug taker myself, just to be clear.

SPEAKER_09 35:24

Yeah, to be clear.

SPEAKER_05 35:25

But um, yeah, I believe it's quite uh an accessible drug, you would say.

SPEAKER_06 35:30

Yeah, it's not illegal to legal to purchase or be in possession of it.

SPEAKER_09 35:35

What do they use for baking, don't they? Is it for baking? Whipping cream or something, isn't it?

SPEAKER_06 35:40

Yeah, in whipped cream.

SPEAKER_09 35:41

Okay.

SPEAKER_06 35:41

But it can also be misused.

SPEAKER_09 35:43

Okay, don't do that. That's yeah, that's very that's lame. I wouldn't do that. Anyway, okay, so so they found a Nang, um presumably used one in the car. But how do you prove unless there's footage of that, which I would which would be difficult because inside the car, how do you prove that the drivers actually use this thing?

SPEAKER_06 36:04

Yeah, well, it came out at trial when the footage was played, the camera was from outside the car. So what was happening inside the car um was something that would have to ask the court to make inferences from what was happening in there. Uh also these Nangs are relatively new on the streets, but and um whenever police find drugs in someone's system, we can hand up drug certificates. But the chem center couldn't test for these because they'd never encountered uh this sort of uh issue before. So it came up to a a novel a novel case to put up to the courts.

SPEAKER_05 36:39

And so how how do you tackle that?

SPEAKER_06 36:41

And where do you very well the investigating officer did a very good job? He um he weighed the canisters, so he just used good old-fashioned police work, which was the canisters had a weight on the outside of them, so we weighed and took photographs of all the canisters, and that we could uh show the photos of the weight that was printed on the label compared to what was on there. Something as simple as that. We could ask the court to draw the inference, going, well, if they were less than the label, we could draw the inference that the canisters had been used.

SPEAKER_09 37:14

They'd been used. Wow, and there's no one else in the car. Uh that's correct. Yeah, and he was behind the wheel.

SPEAKER_06 37:19

Yes. And um, from outside the video footage, uh, it was quite self-evident from the footage that it was being used as he was driving.

SPEAKER_09 37:27

Wow. Case closed. Oh, that's a good one.

SPEAKER_06 37:31

Not quite. We have to prove it beyond a doubt. Okay. So what the case officer did at court was collect the um the NANG canister, bring that to court, and on the stand, he basically did a reenactment of what uh wasn't on the video footage, uh, on the stand, such as putting the canister up oriented a particular way, and mimicked uh the usage of putting a canister up to his head, and he could give his observations on that. And that's direct evidence as to what he was seeing or not seeing out to the front of you.

SPEAKER_09 38:03

This is quite dramatic. This is courtroom drama. I love it. Um so can I just ask, were the pedestrians okay?

SPEAKER_06 38:10

Uh they went to hospital for a checkup. They did suffer some injuries, um, but they healed up pretty good and were able to come to court and give their account.

SPEAKER_09 38:19

Excellent. Okay. And how what was the uh the sentence for I'm just gonna call it a ning prang?

SPEAKER_06 38:27

Um, yes, the it did result in a conviction and he received a uh suspended term of imprisonment. So the court took that outcome very seriously, effectively imprisoned, but um to be served in the community upon certain conditions.

SPEAKER_09 38:40

Okay, all right, he's got one more chance, I guess. Uh because yeah, if he offends again, he goes directly to jail, does not pass go, does not receive $200. That was a monopoly reference if anyone was unclear. Um I just want to say thank you very much for coming on the podcast. Is there anything else that you you you sort of I don't know, wanted to share with us about prosecuting or uh are we looking for people who are interested in doing law who you're or working as a prosecutor to join police as a possible career path?

SPEAKER_06 39:10

Yeah, people join police uh with a idea of a specialist in mind, they want to go forensics or detectives or dive police or canine. But um WA police are uh had this prosecutions um field you can get into. You don't necessarily need a law degree, although a lot of people that go down that path, and it's an interesting path to to go down. I'm should people wish to consider it.

SPEAKER_05 39:34

Especially if you're you know a fan of a law and order TV show or something like that. Definitely um Do you have a favorite courtroom drama?

SPEAKER_09 39:41

No, it's just like it's my life, I live it. Uh, but look, in honor of you and everybody else at uh police prosecuting, we are gonna get the WA police pirate band to see us out of this segment with the Law and Order theme song. Thank you very much for coming on the podcast.

SPEAKER_06 39:56

Thank you.

SPEAKER_09 40:15

How do you catch someone out for breaking the law on our roads when you can't find a person to testify as a witness? Well, thanks to technology and new methodology and a bit of innovation, we might now have another alternative. To answer that question for us today, we are joined by senior constable Grant Hazel. Grant, thanks for coming on the podcast.

SPEAKER_08 40:35

You're welcome. It's good to be here.

SPEAKER_09 40:36

Okay. You don't have a person to witness a crime that's been committed on our roads. What's the go-to now? What are we doing that's a bit different?

SPEAKER_08 40:46

Well, with the advances of technology and with our vehicle system forensic capability, the car holds a lot of answers, which before we wouldn't be able to uncover. So that's something we're leveraging. We're really pushing into that space. Whereas we don't have a person who can give us a witness account, we can look at the car who can be that witness for us.

SPEAKER_09 41:05

The car is the witness. The car can be the witness, yeah. Okay. All right. So, I mean, we're happy to talk about this because I I think it it should be seen as a as a deterrent for anyone who is doing the wrong thing on our roads. And there's things that we won't reveal, but there's things that we can talk about. So, what are the sorts of things that you you're like if you were to say forensically examine a car after a crash or something of that nature? What are the sorts of things that you can find out?

SPEAKER_08 41:31

So, depending on the make or model of the car, we can get a whole raft of data and things that you wouldn't expect. And you'd be really surprised are the things that your car does without you knowing. So it some cars will autonomously log where you've been. So we get track logs, track points. We can ascertain which door has been opened and when, what phones have been connected to a car, uh, what calls have been made, maybe contacts, call logs, messages, media that's been played, harsh acceleration, rapid deceleration. More things than what people would expect their car to reveal. So you can understand just by that brief statement there, just how rich that source of evidence can be.

SPEAKER_09 42:12

So you can find if someone someone has committed a serious offense and judge them for their terrible 90s playlist or something at the same time, effectively.

SPEAKER_08 42:20

Absolutely. I don't know what's more shameful.

SPEAKER_09 42:22

I don't know either, but I mean, yeah. Um if you're into the I don't know, spy scales.

SPEAKER_05 42:27

Uh yeah, I might have to reassess my playlist now. But I I think this is a huge game changer in the way police operate, right? It's um advances in technology. How how big of a difference does this make when solving crimes?

SPEAKER_08 42:41

Huge. If you think before 2022, we didn't have a capability, or the capability we had was very limited. And since that time, we've gained more trained people, we've gained the tech to be able to expand the capability now. And it gives us things that we just couldn't get in the past. So there was always gaps in an investigation. Yes, you had your witness account, she had your other evidence, you had you have your other corroborative evidence, but there was always going to be a gap where a vehicle was involved. And now we can fill in those gaps so we can add to what we have from a witness, to perhaps what we have from other digital evidence, other physical evidence, we can then fill in the gaps from the data that we can extract from vehicles. And before we had this capability, those answers we might never get because they were only available from cars.

SPEAKER_09 43:26

And it's not just vehicle offences, as well, is my understanding. I mean, if there'd been an assault or a murder or someone's lying to police about, you know, did they open the door? Did they get out of the car? I mean, you just mentioned before, you can actually tell if someone's someone's done that.

SPEAKER_08 43:42

Absolutely. And that's the main push. The main push is to look at it with regard to matters of crime as opposed to traffic. So traffic is a consideration, but it's a secondary consideration. So the primary consideration is how can we help solve crime from the most serious from the most serious crime to perhaps crime that's Slower down on the scale and everything in between. So we don't discriminate by virtue of seriousness. It's all down to capability. What's supported and what isn't, what do we have the time to do, what don't we have the time to do, and which one is a priority over another one?

SPEAKER_09 44:12

What's wait, what sort of crimes are we talking about though? When you say serious crimes?

SPEAKER_08 44:16

From the from the highest level, from homicides down to stealings and everything in between.

SPEAKER_09 44:20

So the a car or your car, if you if you are a murderer, your car may actually hold the key to you being convicted?

SPEAKER_08 44:30

It could hold the key to and it could hold the answers to many things that will really progress uh police inquiries, police investigations, and give us rich data sets of which you had no idea that your car contains that kind of data.

SPEAKER_09 44:46

That's amazing. Um look, how many of the crooks that you're busting, um, because you can tell these things, have been listening to WA Police Confidential, our official Western Australia Police Force podcast?

SPEAKER_08 44:59

How many?

SPEAKER_09 45:00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_08 45:01

Hopefully all of them.

SPEAKER_09 45:05

Yeah, we'll we'll we'll we'll do a survey, but it's draw poll uh maybe in a little in a little while uh with you again, Grant. Um, is there anything that we haven't touched upon that you think um is important for people to know at home?

SPEAKER_08 45:18

I can talk about, if you like, I can talk about an investigation which really uncovered all of the methodologies. A good example of our capability would be Operation Maelstrom, which occurred at the end of last year. And it was a vehicle which had been involved in drug importation, it had executive interest, but there was a gap, and the gap was we didn't know where the car had been in the local area. We knew that it was involved, but we didn't know where it was picked up from, where it'd been, could we put it at the scene of the of the drop? And the vehicle came to us and it presented a challenge straight away is that we didn't have the capability to hand. So what we needed to do was we had to push for extra capability, which required new tech that landed on my desk on a Monday. I had to learn it very quickly. There was no trial and error approach. It was the first time I'm going to use this is on an evidentiary vehicle. So we used it, we got a great result. We were able to put the vehicle exactly where the drug drop happened. We were then able to put it at certain addresses in and around the area, the point where it was picked up, and all of the places that it had been in between pick up the offending period and then afterwards. So it really was a real testament to how quick we can move, the results that we can get at a short time, how we can learn new tech, how we can upskill quickly and deliver real meaningful results. That is incredible.

SPEAKER_05 46:45

Yeah, that's amazing. And and that sort of is a real life example of of this tech in action.

SPEAKER_09 46:52

Yeah. Um, I mean, the last thing that I'd probably have put to you is um I don't know if you saw a documentary. You this is gonna I'm showing my age a bit. There's a documentary back in the day called Night Rider, uh, about a uh a talking car. How did you know I was old enough to remember? I didn't know, I didn't know. Um, but yeah, that look, this is this is this is the evolution of that in a way, isn't it?

SPEAKER_08 47:14

Yeah, it it really is. You know, your car isn't gonna talk, but it it talks to us. So the car might be silent, but the data within the car speaks volumes and it's gonna give us all of that information in a way that we can understand, interpret, and then present that evidence to the court. That's very powerful.

SPEAKER_09 47:32

Grant, Grant Hazel, the David Hasselhoff of the Western Australia Police Force, who definitely has those those good looks. Um, and uh, before we go, lastly, a little plug, greyhounds. Your greyhound dad, I'm a greyhound dad, they're the best dogs ever, right?

SPEAKER_08 47:45

They really are. Yeah, and and if you want to foster or adopt one, then get amongst it.

SPEAKER_09 47:50

100%. Okay, thanks very much for coming on the pod.

SPEAKER_05 47:53

This is WA Police Confidential.

SPEAKER_09 48:01

Gleo, it's been a really big week in in news, and we've got some uh actually some breaking developments. One in particular that's quite urgent, uh, that at the time of recording is really important that we we get the public's assistance. Can you talk us through it?

SPEAKER_05 48:14

Yeah, absolutely. So about nine o'clock this morning, Wednesday at the time of recording, uh police received a report that a deceased woman had been located on Grand Boulevard in June de Lup. So it's still very early in the investigation. We don't really understand the circumstances just yet, but um police are appealing for anyone who is in that vicinity to come forward with any information they may have.

SPEAKER_09 48:37

Fair to say we think it may be suspicious.

SPEAKER_05 48:39

There, yeah, there are some suspicious circumstances around how that woman came to be there. But at this stage, um obviously dect detectives are turning over every um rock and stone leaf, everything to try and find out what happened.

SPEAKER_09 48:54

Absolutely. Okay, thank you, Claire. If you know anything, please call Crime Stoppers. Uh and uh there was an incident in Ellenbrook yesterday, which was I I think somebody else is fighting for life actually at the moment.

SPEAKER_05 49:05

Yeah, it was quite a serious crash down in Allenbrook yesterday. Um, one uh involving a horse float, actually. Two two cars collided, one was towing a horse float. Those horses were uninjured, um, thankfully, but unfortunately, one of the passengers in that in one of those cars is is fighting for life in hospital. So another one where where police are appealing for any information people might have.

SPEAKER_09 49:28

Okay, all right. Again, if you've seen anything, you know who to call. And a very um historic, I would say, uh, outcome today to uh perhaps maybe one of the most extraordinary cases that the West Australia Police Force has cracked in uh well in our almost 175-year history, and that is the uh the murder of Nick Martin. Uh the bikey who procured that murder, who was found guilty of paying a sniper to to kill Nick Martin, to assassinate him in front of 3,000 people at the Perth Motorplex, uh, has now been sentenced, and Claire, it's a doozy, right?

SPEAKER_05 50:06

Yeah, it's quite significant and maybe one of the longest in in history. Um in Western Australia, to be clear, yes. Um that man was jailed for 34 years before parole can even be considered, Joey.

SPEAKER_09 50:19

Wow. Okay, so there you go. I mean, if you haven't actually had a chance, uh we talked about uh the investigation, we unpacked that um through episodes I think three to eight or nine. Um go back and have a listen if you want, because it's fascinating stuff. And great work by everybody involved in the agency. Um and and of course, I'm sure that uh Nick Martin's family and friends today um hopefully will take some comfort that that justice has been done.

SPEAKER_05 50:47

Absolutely, absolutely.

SPEAKER_09 50:48

And hey, look, if you need another reason why you might want to be a police officer.

SPEAKER_05 50:54

Yes, well, it's uh it's making life in WA pretty accessible if you want to own a home. Is that right? Yeah, yeah. So it's a homeowner subsidy scheme. It's a pretty new initiative by the WA police. Um, and basically it just makes it more accessible, accessible for people to get into the market if they're a police officer in regional WA.

SPEAKER_09 51:13

Oh, cool. So basically, get in, get a great job, great career, get your foot on the uh on the housing market ladder. What's not to love, head over to Let's Join Forces, check out the website, check out the podcast. We've got a couple of those, or this one. Thanks very much, Claire.

SPEAKER_05 51:28

No worries at all. Thanks for having me.

SPEAKER_09 51:31

Thank you very much for listening to another episode of WA Police Confidential. Claire, last week we teased our history fact of the week. Can you remind us what that was and um can we get the answer?

SPEAKER_05 51:43

Well, back in WA's Bush Ranger days, police were paid bonuses to catch the bad guys. So last week, Nate asked, How much do you think was paid for the arrest of one of our most notorious Bush Rangers, Moondine Joe?

SPEAKER_09 51:57

I don't know, how much?

SPEAKER_05 51:58

Well, Constable David Hackett was one of the best at tracking down outlaws like the infamous Moondine Joe. Although Joe escaped so often that the reward was minimal. So it was only one Australian pound.

SPEAKER_09 52:10

Wow, okay. Um with inflation, that would have been it.

SPEAKER_05 52:14

Oh, yeah, it's all relative, right? It's all relative. Yeah. However, other arrests proved more lucrative, including Hackett's capture of police killer Thomas Hughes, where he received 40 pounds, which is around $13,000 in today's money.

SPEAKER_09 52:27

Wow. Okay. That's um that's not bad. Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 52:31

Not a bad bonus.

SPEAKER_09 52:32

Yeah. Um, and next week, have we have you got a little something to tease us?

SPEAKER_05 52:36

Yes, I sure do. So the mystery identity of Jack the Ripper. Could he have a WA connection?

SPEAKER_09 52:44

Get real. No, I'm serious. That is out of this world. I love that. I love that. Okay. So we've had a pretty cool episode, I think. Um, if people are interested in any of the jobs they've heard about, Claire.

SPEAKER_05 52:57

Absolutely. Just jump on Let's Join Forces and um, yeah, see if one's right for you. Yeah, we're always looking for people.

SPEAKER_09 53:02

We are at the moment, yeah. Yep. The opportunity is definitely there. Uh, I want to say thank you very much to all our guests to all of our listeners. And um, if we could, maybe we'll just take this, take it out with the WA Police Pipe Band and the criminal justice system. Especially cool songs are played by the WA Police Pipe Band. This is Law and Order, and you're listening to WA Police Confidential.

SPEAKER_05 53:52

Sound editing by Joe and Danny and Sam, cover song by the WA Police Pipe Band, and Cheesy Podcast theme music by Joey Cantzaro. By the way, why just listen to a podcast about policing when you could actually be doing it? Let's join forces.wa.gov.au.