Ep 18 - Blood Spatter

Episode 18 of WA Police Confidential! The official WA Police Force Podcast.

On this week’s show:

Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:00

This podcast discusses real-life crimes and law enforcement matters. It may include detailed descriptions of criminal activity, traumatic incidents, and other content that could be confronting or distressing, particularly for victim survivors. Listener discretion is advised. If you find any of these topics upsetting, please consider whether this content is right for you and seek support if needed.

SPEAKER_07 0:29

Welcome back to WA Police Confidential. I'm Maya Greeve.

SPEAKER_02 0:32

I'm Sergeant Nate Gilmore. I'm Joey Catanzaro.

SPEAKER_07 0:35

From Hoons in Ellenbrook to a station full of Brits. Nate, any guess what station that could be? Not sure my bot.

SPEAKER_10 0:41

It sounds pretty cool. It's like Little Britain in the outback of Western Australia. It's very interesting.

SPEAKER_07 0:47

It's definitely not the climate that they're used to.

SPEAKER_10 0:50

Oh, uh blood. Some people hate blood. Some people look at it for a living. Um, go behind the crime scene to tell the story with a blood splatter expert.

SPEAKER_02 1:00

And while we celebrate the recognition of excellence awards next week, we have one finalist joining us on the show to tell us all about Operation Wandon.

SPEAKER_10 1:08

That's stolen cars, right? It sure is. Okay, did I steal your thunder then? Sorry. No, not at all. Okay.

SPEAKER_07 1:14

And of course, Claire will be joining us for this week's headlines. This is WA Police Confidential.

SPEAKER_10 1:24

About 560 kilometres from Perth, at the end of a seven-hour drive, you will find a remote outback police station in a place called Coolgardi. Now, one of the cool facts about Kulgardi police district is that it spans roughly 19,000 square kilometres. For our UK listeners, that's basically an area the size of Wales. Now, Maya, Nate, do you know how many police officers in this uh are manning this Wales-sized district in the in the West Australian Outpack?

SPEAKER_07 1:56

Oh, we can only guess maybe six.

SPEAKER_10 1:59

Six, you are correct. And here's where it gets really interesting. All six of those officers are actually from the UK. Joining us today to chat about how this might have happened is Coolgardi OIC, Jay Casey. Jay, thanks very much for jumping on.

SPEAKER_06 2:16

It's a pleasure to be here.

SPEAKER_10 2:18

Now, Jake, Coolgardi has a population, I think, of about 850 people in an area the size of Wales. As uh I think uh as a I think you were born in Scotland originally. How how is it going there the first time and just sort of getting your head around policing this this huge district with a very small population?

SPEAKER_06 2:43

I think the biggest thing is definitely trying to wrap your head around just how massive it is in scale. Um there's nothing that compares to it in the UK and any anywhere I've really been. There's nothing that compares to that, the vastness that there is. There's a whole lot of something and a whole lot of nothing. The town is is as you said, a population of about eight and a half eight hundred and fifty. Um the shire itself is maybe about three and a half thousand for two different stations. And the little town keep it keeps us going uh for jobs, but um when when the jobs aren't calling, then the troops get to go out and explore uh the gold fields in the Kulgara region.

SPEAKER_02 3:26

Jay um Joey mentioned at the outset six men station, um yourself being a Scotsman, uh, who else have you got at the uh out at Kulgardi?

SPEAKER_06 3:37

Yeah, so you've got myself from the north, um, and then we have uh two people from Liverpool, and we have two from Yorkshire, and then one from London around the May area. Um so I think we cover the majority of the mainland UK with the six others, um with all the different backgrounds and regions that we come from.

SPEAKER_10 3:59

That's incredible. Is it just by chance that you all ended up there in Cool Gardey?

SPEAKER_06 4:04

I think a bit of a bit of chance, a bit of people who want to do something a bit different, and then maybe a bit of similarity with the fact that so I I I came here uh two and a half years ago as a as a constable, leaving the academy. Um had to wait a few ye a few months until I got my first class, and then just the situation so happened that the OIC position became vacant. Um at that time it was just myself and one other who was Australian. Um and then since then we've had two couples come and then another individual all being transitionals. And I think it's a bit of the unknown and the known because you know you're going to come to a station where everybody's been through the similar experience, everyone's been through that um movement from the UK over here, having to settle in in Perth and then uprooting your life again to come out into a regional spot. Um so I think it's a mix of everything.

SPEAKER_10 5:01

So do you reckon, I mean, is it is there something in particular about Kulgardi that's attracting people from the UK? I mean, is there a I don't know, a secret supply of mushy peas or bistow or something?

SPEAKER_06 5:12

Well, if you go to Woolworths, you can get Bistow on tap. So I have learned that recently and it's come in very handy. Um I think Kulgardi is just really well situated um locality-wise as well. We are close to Kalgooli, so we have that support, but you're still left to your own devices and are quite independent and can be autonomous with the things you're doing. You you have that small team mentality, but the ability to get involved with a big station like Calgoole, so you have that kind of metropolitan aspect of it. And it is a really busy place, whereas you can come out to Cool Garden, you get the time to actually hone your craft a little bit, learn the intricacies of the legislation here that we might not know about, um, and be able to take the time with some of the jobs that you're dealing with.

SPEAKER_03 5:59

Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 6:00

Um, also that and the the ability to to hold on to a lot of stuff that you wouldn't be able to hold on to in Metro because there's so many teams and resources helping you out. Whereas here, you you kind of you have that support if you need it, but you also have that ability to keep hands on.

SPEAKER_10 6:16

So from a policing perspective, it sounds like it's really fascinating, and I they always say that about regional WA, don't they, Nate? Is that you know you in and I think that's what you're alluding to, is that in in the city, you know, maybe a detective might take a certain job or a certain squad, homicide might step in, someone might step in and take something, but you know, you can see it through in in the regions, can't you?

SPEAKER_02 6:35

You're right, yeah. You get the uh the complainant might come to you and you can see that from go to woe. So from the start, you're taking the statement, you're investigating it right through to charging the crook. It's um it's one of the advantages, isn't it, uh, of working in regional WA.

SPEAKER_10 6:50

And and look, and I think Jay, just to be just so in case people aren't aren't sort of aware, you mentioned, well, firstly, we mentioned Bisto for our Australian listeners listeners, that is a UK gravy, which I got I gotta be honest, it's better than Grave Ox. It is it is potentially the bit the world's greatest gravy. I don't know if I'm now a trader. Yeah, I was gonna say you're a trader. No, it's not a commercial Jay. Are you with me here on this?

SPEAKER_06 7:12

Yeah, it's a period every single way.

SPEAKER_10 7:15

Although Vegimite's better than Marmite. Yeah, Vegemite's definitely better than Marmite, but but Bisto wins in my book.

SPEAKER_06 7:23

Um I'm going to lose a lot of people in this one I don't like either.

SPEAKER_10 7:26

Oh, wow, okay. Yep, controversial. Shots fired, shots fired. Uh send back up. Uh Kalgooli. You mentioned Kalgooli again for UK listeners. Uh you you may think of it as the city now, Jay, but it's uh, you know, it it looks like an old Western saloon town with the big, big streets and it's an old gold rush town, it's pretty cool. Um I'm gonna ask, so we are obviously recruiting police officers from the UK. Um, if they have three or more years experience, they can apply, and everybody in that station in Kalgul and Kulgardi in your station has applied and been successful and come across. What are some of the things that are the same about policing no matter where you go?

SPEAKER_06 8:11

I think the approach, the approach is very similar, having that that mentality of um every every job, although maybe similar, it's still different. You have to treat it with that um non-biased kind of approach to it. Um because you're dealing with the same people every every every couple of days, um, especially the people that come to the attention all the time. And yet you have to be able to treat every individual instant in its own merit as opposed to um having those um unconscious biases that everybody has. I think the approach to it, the the way you speak to people, I think a big thing. I know it's certainly in in the UK and and in WA as well, is just your ability to talk to people. It really impacts how every job goes. That positive language you're using when you're going to FVs, things like that, um, is a very universal thing.

SPEAKER_10 9:07

And and Jade, speaking of talking to people, how do you go out there? I mean, you you've got a Scottish accent, we're talking I mean, the Liverpool accent, uh, I think you mentioned Liverpoolian. That is uh that's tricky sometimes, I think, for for people. How do you guys go with um communicating?

SPEAKER_06 9:29

Um I think from from the most part we got on pretty well. Um I think when every one of us gets excited or the the the adrenaline's going that it sometimes it can be difficult at that point. We tried to use sign language, but then I don't think any of us know sign language, so that's not useful either.

SPEAKER_10 9:48

That's brilliant, it's fantastic.

SPEAKER_02 9:50

I was uh at Perth Station, I had three Scotsmen on my team at one point, and uh yeah, that was a challenge for for some of the locals to understand what are they on about, but yeah, they get the job done, that's for sure.

SPEAKER_10 10:02

You're you're under arrest, is it's pretty clear regardless of the accent, I think. Um and what's the deal? Okay, so we mentioned what's the same, but probably the last thing I'd ask, I mean, is there anything that's really different about policing out in the bush? Um, that and here in Australia in general, right? Any sort of weird and wonderful kind of things?

SPEAKER_06 10:21

I think a big part of it is um the wildlife as well. Um it's very strange when you come out of your house and you've got a pack of emus walking across in front of you, or your alarms are going off and your cameras because there's kangaroos out the side of your house. Um and it's telling you that there's people outside your house and you panic. Um so but the the landscape as well is is a big thing. The the the the scale will cut I'll come back to the scale of it all. Um dealing with Lansars, Lancerps, high-risk missing people, things like that. It's just unbelievable. You can't you can't fathom it from someone that's never actually experienced or seen it.

SPEAKER_10 11:03

So you're saying that you don't have marauding packs of kangaroos trying to break into your house in uh in Scotland?

SPEAKER_06 11:09

Nah, nah, unfortunately not.

SPEAKER_02 11:12

Maybe a highland cow or something like that.

SPEAKER_10 11:14

Maybe, yeah.

SPEAKER_06 11:14

Yeah, yeah. A couple of deer.

SPEAKER_10 11:17

Uh Jay, uh, very last thing, actually. Sorry, I said last question. Now the last last question. What would you say to anybody in the UK who maybe is considering um applying to join the West Australian police force and come across you? What would your advice be?

SPEAKER_06 11:31

Just give it a go. The worst case scenario, I know people have uh families and everybody's situation is different, but um the best mind says give it a go, and if it doesn't work out, you can always go back.

SPEAKER_10 11:44

Jay, thank you so much to you and your team of uh UK coppers uh who are putting the cool back in Kulgardi.

SPEAKER_06 11:56

No problem. Thank you for having me.

SPEAKER_10 11:58

Thanks, mate.

SPEAKER_02 11:58

This is W8 Police Confidential. Buckle up, this one takes a few wild turns. We're diving into the chaotic series of incidents that occurred in Ellenbrook last Thursday night, which left a trail of destruction through suburban streets, a large police response, and an unexpected return just hours later. Joining us to break it all down is Ellenbrook Police Officer in charge, acting senior sergeant Liam Mallison. Thanks for joining us.

SPEAKER_04 12:33

Thanks for having me, guys.

SPEAKER_02 12:34

You were on that night?

SPEAKER_04 12:35

Yes, I was working, yes. I'm just filling in as the officer in charge, but last week I was the ship supervisor. Walk us through it. Yeah, so look, uh basically started receiving a number of calls from members of the public in relation to someone driving fairly erratically around the streets of Ellenbrook. Um and uh ended up sort of in the car park at Bunnings at Ellenbrook, which is a large, quite open area there. And yeah, talk of sparks flying from from a rim, you know, that had lost its tyre. And uh yeah, as it as it went on, more more and more calls from members of the public who had seen things and uh yeah, quick response from a lot of cars in the area, and getting a lot of cars in the area to try and stop this car.

SPEAKER_02 13:14

So we saw the vision on the the news headlines. You know, we've got a white uh Toyota Hilux basically tearing up suburban streets, taking out letterboxes, um burnouts on people's driveways, like you said, he's he's he's um down to the rims, um, and then he's gone all the way um into the Bunnings car park, and um your guys got the call. Um and then um they've responded pretty quickly. What what happens after that?

SPEAKER_04 13:40

Yeah, so yeah, fortunately for us, the guy got a bit stuck. He he managed to sort of get himself stuck and he's got out of the car on foot. And again, there's a lot of members of the public around the area and uh a lot of calls to police, so we're quickly able to get cars to the area that he was at, and he was located, he was placed under arrest and um we impounded his car for for reckless driving. And uh yeah, he was later taken to hospital just to obtain blood samples, etc. Which um is something that's part of the investigation that we'll find out later.

SPEAKER_10 14:12

Yeah. What what happens in this situation when somebody I guess the threat, the crime has been committed, they're gonna they're gonna appear before a court.

SPEAKER_04 14:20

Yeah. So whenever someone's charged with with an offence, we have to consider you know what options we have for their bail. Do we give them bail? Um do we refuse their bail? Do we just release them to freedom? And in this case, this particular male he's never committed a criminal offence in his life. Um the offence that he had committed that night was a driving offence. We'd taken his car off of him. By the time that he'd had his blood staken, it was pretty light, and it was pretty evident that this guy just needed to sleep off whatever was going on. So the guys dropped him home and um Yeah, and we thought that was the end of it, but unfortunately. What happened? So, yeah, so he he was dropped home, I think, about 1.30am, and um the afternoon shift at Ellenbrook normally finishes at uh 2 a.m. and um there was a few of us sort of hanging back just trying to catch up that night. And one of the guys had left the uh left the police station about 2.40am, and uh he was just waiting for the security gates to close behind him. And uh from across the road there he saw um the same male that was in the police station early for the reckless driving approaching his vehicle with a lot of qu quite a large hammer. Um so yeah, so it was quite concerning. What again it was one of those things, what was he doing, what was his intentions, we do not know, but fortunately, you know, we we did never find out. Um he wasn't able to cause any damage to hurt anyone and he was apprehended again shortly after. He um yeah, for whatever reason, if the if he was aiming to commit more offences, you know, we didn't take any chance the second time round, and he was refused bail on the second instance when he was arrested because he'd committed another offence we thought he was just gonna go home to bed and he's committed further offences, and that's where, you know, under the letter of the law, we can refuse someone's bail if we think they're gonna commit further offences. So on this occasion, his bail was refused. Excellent.

SPEAKER_10 16:10

A great job done by you and the team out there, I think. Um and I mean I I I guess the message here is why just why would you engage in that kind of silly behaviour? His car, if it turns out that he's found guilty of these offences, he's not getting it back.

SPEAKER_04 16:29

Yeah, well his car's been powdered um for reckless driving and um yeah, he's caused quite a bit of damage to it, so who knows what sort of state it's actually in. And even if he was to get it back, what sort of state it's in uh at least in this case, the importantly, yeah, no one's been hurt. There's obviously some major damage caused to to people's property, but um it's very good that no one was hurt considering the manner of the driving that we saw on the those videos.

SPEAKER_02 16:53

And on that note as well, around the same time, uh an evade police incident occurred just over in Averley.

SPEAKER_04 17:01

That's right.

SPEAKER_02 17:01

What happened there?

SPEAKER_04 17:02

Yeah, so um yeah, there was like I said, there was a few police in the area at that time, and um there's another vehicle that was ob observed driving you know, in a not very w good manner, and um they've decided to you know to try and stop that vehicle and uh and that's uh just resulted in some further dangerous driving, which has uh come to a stop nearby, and unfortunately, yeah, due to a lot of police being in the area he was quickly apprehended as well. So it was yeah, it was a very good result.

SPEAKER_02 17:28

And that one was was quite um quite a result by the Midland detectives who were involved in that particular matter. And uh the 19-year-old male from Avery's been charged with over ten offences, including the evade police matters, not having a licence, obstructing police and possession of drugs.

SPEAKER_10 17:46

So didn't have a tool, but was a tool. Definitely. Um and look, I think it's a really good point that that you raised, Liam, that I just want to touch upon is you know, for those people who who have had their property damaged, it's it's you know, it's really not cool. Um it's really inconvenient. But also I think it's a really good opportunity right now to thank everybody in Ellenbrook who contacted police um and did the right thing by alerting your officers and yourself as to the whereabouts of uh of this particular individual. Um and like you said, thankfully no one was hurt.

SPEAKER_04 18:21

Yeah. Yeah, and I 100% agree with that at the end of the day we're act we're acting on information provided by the public. And in this case, there was a lot of C C D E footage um provided by members of the public. Um so yeah, yeah, I just encourage people to please keep going forward with information and footage when you do have it.

SPEAKER_02 18:37

And tell us about it via the appropriate channels. Don't post it to socials and think we're gonna see it, right?

SPEAKER_10 18:43

Yeah, that's right, 100%. Excellent. Thank you so much for coming on the podcast. Thank you. Thanks.

SPEAKER_02 18:49

WA Police Confidential.

SPEAKER_00 18:52

All units, the WA police force is looking for people. All command to people, people in the tech, intercomedium, into formal drumming, dumb people, and horse people, people who like motor bugs, quick bugs, planes, helicopters, and boots, people in a big on community, helping others and stumbling true criminal, not just watching it, you know. Ordinary people who are for doing extreme reward and everything.

SPEAKER_08 19:15

If you can be one of these people, you found your people. So much let's join forces.

SPEAKER_07 19:21

Welcome back to WA Police Confidential. Now, let's go into a topic that goes far beyond what you see in crime shows. We're joined by forensic blood pattern analyst Sergeant Brett McCann, who spends his day using science, detail, and observation to help uncover the truth behind crime scenes. Brett, when you walk into a crime scene, what are you hoping to piece together with what you see?

SPEAKER_11 19:48

Um, if we're talking in relation to bloodstains and bloodstain patterns, I'm really there to try and help reconstruct uh the crime scene and try to do that um through the bloodstains and bloodstain patterns um that we observe.

SPEAKER_07 20:08

Absolutely. Has there ever been a time where the blood spatter analysis hasn't come out or completely changed what people thought would have happened?

SPEAKER_11 20:20

Um yeah, look, sometimes um what it does or what it has done previously is um maybe confirm what a victim um is alleging has occurred. Um, but sometimes it's also been used to disprove maybe sometimes witnesses' accounts or or people's versions of account that have been um relied on um in the scene. So it's sort of um the interpretation can work um both ways, but either confirming or helping negate um versions of events.

SPEAKER_10 20:55

What kind of things, Brett, can you um can you actually glean? Like we you can you can confirm just from the way that blood maybe is you know on a on a wall, on the floor, on an object. What what sort of things are we talking about here?

SPEAKER_11 21:09

Um sometimes we can look at like mechanisms, um, the way um the blood has been created and the type of mechanism that may have created that that bloodstain or bloodstain patterns. Um we can sometimes position um, say, a victim or an offender uh within a crime scene. Um it can help us maybe sometimes to determine with the assistance of forensic biology uh multiple bleeders in the scene. Uh we can look to try and sequence bloodshed events within the scene, um, or origins for where maybe the assault or the impact may have occurred. And we can help to determine um areas or regions of origin of where our blood source. And when I say blood source, it's usually a person may have been positioned at the time.

SPEAKER_10 22:00

So so just um going back to multiple bleeders, so uh this could be important. What if somebody says actually I was attacked first and I've defended myself, for example?

SPEAKER_11 22:09

Or I I guess multiple bleeders usually goes back to identity. So um usually we rely on forensic biology, so DNA, to assist us with who the contributor is. But there are times we can look at the different bloodstains and bloodstain patterns and see I guess differences uh in how uh they're positioned in the scenes. And sometimes I I might think in my head maybe we have two bleeders in this scene just because of uh the different types of bloodstains and bloodstain patterns and how they interact. So it would assist if or how I sample the bloodstains within the scene. And one might be an outlier, so if we have a a victim in the scene, but there might be a different pattern, and we might think, oh, maybe the the offender's also bleeding, so it can sometimes help to identify different contributors.

SPEAKER_10 23:01

So uh but potentially then, yes, so if the a victim was fighting back um and and there was some extra blood, that might help you identify who the the perpetrators were.

SPEAKER_11 23:12

Yeah, it might uh through the bloodstains where for our selection for sampling, we might sample based on there could be another person or the victim, or sorry, the offender has bled within the scene, and then yeah, that might give us an identity and a name of who an offender might be.

SPEAKER_10 23:30

So we're we're talking also um in instances where maybe you're looking for or you're trying to to either firm up or or rule out potential weapons that might have been used during an assault or a homicide. Can blood can blood help tell that story as well?

SPEAKER_11 23:52

Um usually when we're talking weapons um and injuries caused, that would fall into the domain of the forensic pathologist, uh, the doctor who would do the interpretation of the injuries. Um, but there has been occasions where um we can give a, I guess, a general idea, and I say general is very general in relation to a to a weapon used, um, but it's hard to be specific sometimes just through the bloodstains and bloodstone patterns.

SPEAKER_10 24:25

Colonel Mustard in the in the conservatory with the lead pipe. I was gonna say candlestick. Okay, lead pipe, yeah. I mean that's yeah, yeah, that's it.

SPEAKER_11 24:33

If we could do yeah, if we could do that, we'd be doing all right. Um but sometimes we can uh we can maybe put something down to a cast-off pattern where we know blood's been released from a blood-bearing object in motion, which sometimes might be a weapon. Um what that weapon is is yeah, probably pushing the um the expertise a little too far.

SPEAKER_07 24:55

I think for me, like when you're watching a TV show, they always go, Oh, the suspect was left-handed. Can you kind of pick up those things as well from what you see when you have a look at the spatter?

SPEAKER_11 25:07

No, no. I think to say someone was left-handed as opposed to right-handed again is uh yeah, probably uh pushing the discipline a little bit too far.

SPEAKER_07 25:16

An urban legend, as they would say.

SPEAKER_10 25:18

I was thinking, I mean, how good do you how after a little bit of time on the on doing this particular gig, Brett? Could you tell, like, if I'd cut myself shaving and I had a little bit of blood on the collar, it's you know, ooh, it's uh that's a Phillips uh it definitely rays are sensitive skin.

SPEAKER_11 25:36

Yeah, absolutely. No.

SPEAKER_02 25:39

I want to see he said before he can't determine whose what hand uh the the suspect was. He could just say on every occasion they were ambidextrous who actually, man, this guy's good.

SPEAKER_11 25:50

Yeah, that would cover it all, because he's gonna cover all your bases.

SPEAKER_10 25:53

And and is there Brett, I mean I guess it goes without saying, but I I'm gonna ask anyway, yeah. What about you you you're not kind of icky around blood at all? There's no sort of like you know, a lot of people are are really kind of put out by the by the side of blood.

SPEAKER_11 26:13

Um no, blood, um no, it doesn't uh doesn't bother me at all. Um I guess I can some people are maybe um emotionally maybe attached to the side of blood or that someone's been injured. Um for me, it's uh yeah, it's my work, so yeah, I don't have that sort of attachment to it.

SPEAKER_02 26:31

Brett, um, for those that are listening that may be interested in joining the WA police force, do they need a prerequisite degree to do what you do? Or did you sort of come into it after the fact? Like, did you join the police and then get your degree, or did how did it go about for you?

SPEAKER_11 26:48

Um yeah, I uh I uh forensic work probably wasn't something called my radar when I first joined the police. Um I was working in a van just doing uh normal general duties, and then my OSC at the time had a uh forensic course um come up and he asked if I wanted to do it, and I said that I didn't know if it was something I wanted to do, but I said I'd um give it a go. Um I did the forensic course, I enjoyed it, and then when I was doing my general duties, I was also doing forensic work, so a little bit of fingerprinting um and DNA at the time, and then positions became available to me at my local forensic office, so then I was due for a transfer my tenure as up. So I left general duties, went to a local uh district forensic office, and then moved into major crime. So it probably wasn't something that I was looking for, but it's uh a niche within um WA police that I've found and yeah, that I now enjoy.

SPEAKER_10 27:47

You never know where this job's gonna take you. There you go.

SPEAKER_02 27:50

I was at Perth and then I ended up at media, so there you go. Like anything can happen, and uh this job can take you in all sorts of directions. Sure can.

SPEAKER_07 27:58

Absolutely. Thank you so much, Sergeant, for joining us. Uh, this is WA Police Confidential.

SPEAKER_10 28:08

Welcome back to WA Police Confidential. Now we do talk about some pretty serious and confronting crime here on this podcast. This segment is not that, but it is still important. We're joined by acting inspector Hayden Farrow from Scarborough. Now, Hayden there are crime types that may seem less significant to some, but not if you're the victim of that crime. And certainly there are crime types that affect a lot of average West Australian people of all walks in life. Uh in this instance, what are we looking at here? What are we here to talk about today?

SPEAKER_05 28:45

Well, I think one of the uh the the main crimes in sort of residential suburban Western Australia, especially in the metropolitan area, uh, is stealing from vehicles. Uh it's a it can be a huge crime throughout the whole metropolitan area, and I'm sure it goes into the regional areas as well. Uh Scarborough subdistrict is is heavily populated, there's lots of vehicles on the roads, uh high density housing, which means lots of vehicles are parked both on driveways uh and also on the main thorough the main uh thoroughfares and the main roads. Uh people have got busy lives, they leave their vehicles unlocked, uh, they leave items on show. And what it is, it's uh an opportunity for a a criminal, an opportunist thief, to break into that vehicle uh and steal property, causing all sorts of uh knock-on effects for the victim.

SPEAKER_10 29:34

And so you we've got a few different scenarios here. One is the vehicles unfortunately accidentally being left unlocked. Something gets stolen from the car, it's very easy, as you said, from the opportunistic thief. What about um I mean, do you do you often see windows smashed and those sorts of things?

SPEAKER_05 29:49

Yeah, each morning I review uh the crime that's happened in the last 24 hours. Uh and we often get two or three vehicles in my particular sub-districts of of Scarborough that have had their windows um smashed, uh offenders reaching through, grabbing handbags, wallets, sunglasses, cash left in centre consoles, uh bags, uh clothing, anything that's visible that somebody can either use, sell, or or or make benefit off, they'll take it.

SPEAKER_10 30:16

And it's definitely it's the sort of thing that really really irritates people in the community. You only have to look at some of the um, I guess the the commentary on social media. And it seems like the sort of crime because it is in the big scheme of things, it seems relatively low level. That I think there's a perception in the public that maybe the policing effort for this sort of opportunistic crime is not as concerted. That's not the case though, is it?

SPEAKER_05 30:43

No, it's not. And what I try and do is uh obviously we work closer with our in intelligence uh and um uh our crime um people that help us plot where the the the hotspots are in where significant crimes are happening. So let's say we get a spate of stol uh stealings from vehicles, um we can target that area on specific times, so maybe uh early evening or late evening or into the early hours. If we put the right resources there when we've got the opportunity, we're gonna have a better opportunity of identif identifying uh criminals, providing high visible policing, uh reducing crime, and then if we get the opportunity to arrest, then great. And we've had those opportunities since I've been at Scarborough.

SPEAKER_10 31:26

And I guess is the message, isn't it, for those who commit these crimes. Yeah. It's is it the case that it's lots of people committing these crimes, or is it that there's a few people who are committing these crimes at great volume?

SPEAKER_05 31:42

Oh, I I would say based on experience and the people that we deal with at Scarborough Police Station, they're gonna be a small amount of persons that commit the same type of crime. Uh they have their same um method of committing crime, especially vehicle crime. And um, you know, they're gonna take the opportunities. I'm not saying there's other people that won't commit this crime because sometimes if there's an opportunity there, people that might not normally commit this crime will will take the risk and and do it. But um generally what we find is our our regular um our regular criminals that we deal with on a week to week basis will be the ones that are committing these types of crime.

SPEAKER_10 32:18

And Hayden, you you brought a you brought a photo in um that this is property that you've you've I guess um seized uh as a result of doing a warrant on um on a on a premises, a house, a a business, I don't know, some some sort of dwelling with four walls and a roof. Uh and uh and you've taken off the off someone who you would allege is one of these you know really quite active um uh thieves who are breaking into cars. Maya, you're looking at the photo. Can you describe for our listeners what you're looking at? What's actually in that photo?

SPEAKER_07 32:52

Yeah, so I think one of the biggest things that stands out to me is the golf clubs right at the front of this image. Um you've got a couple of motorbike helmets, even a few weapons.

SPEAKER_10 33:02

Um Well, there could be tools or weapons.

SPEAKER_07 33:04

Or tools or weapons. Um, but yeah, coming out of this car, cameras, pretty much, as you were saying, these high value items that if you saw them sitting in the back of a car, you would think that they would be a bit better hidden or maybe taken with. It's chocolate block though.

SPEAKER_10 33:19

That is uh is full. I think you you described it very interestingly before, Hayden, as a Aladdin's cave.

SPEAKER_05 33:25

Aladdin's cave. So this particular story, um on on the back of an increase, uh, a spate of increased stealings in in a particular area of Scarborough subdistrict, um we did a local action plan. We ensured the local resources were targeting the area in their downtime. Through that good high visible policing, uh, a male was located uh and dealt with. Uh and on the back of that he was arrested and a search took place of his residence.

SPEAKER_10 33:52

Okay, so it was actually a residence, so I wasn't sure where it was going. So it's a resident.

SPEAKER_05 33:57

So this is the seized property that's been brought back to the police station. So um the the uh the team went in and literally it was like an Aladdin's cave. As you've said, golf clubs, bags, wallets, personal identification, driving licenses, purses, golf clubs, you name it, it was there. So it was all seized and brought back to the station. A lot of it was returned successfully to the owners, and which way they're thankful for. But can you imagine having your bank card stolen and then used uh a tap and pay so this is the issue? So somebody leaves their wallet in the car, it's stolen, their bank cards are quickly used by the criminals. They go and tap and pay for fuel, for food, for products, and soon racks up lots of frauds. And it has a ripple effect, you know, it's increasing the work for the police, investigations, CCTV reviews. So there's a lot of work involved in these investigations. So, you know, there's some real crime prevention messages that we need to put out there to the public.

SPEAKER_10 34:57

There are some um some golf games that have been absolutely ruined as well. Um did but but I guess the message then is you might find yourself in the rough. Good point.

SPEAKER_02 35:08

Boss, what are they what's the whole idea behind this? Are they they storing these to trade for drugs or are they are they just wanting to collect items? What what's do they give an explanation?

SPEAKER_05 35:18

So this imp this this particular person, he was it was a great it was a great result. He got locked up and he went to prison and served a a decent amount of time for his offending. Um again, a lot of this stuff can be traded on Facebook Marketplace, golf clubs, helmets, suitcases, nice leather bags, you know. So a lot of it's we find is is actually on Facebook Marketplace these days. So um an item such as uh as golf clubs, you'd think nobody's gonna break in for those, but it it happens regularly. Golf clubs are actually a hot item. So my my advice is if you play golf and you and and you leave your bag and your clubs in the car, don't do it. Take it inside, take that extra time to take it inside. Um use your use it use the common sense because it's a lot of it's a lot of money, you know. Golf, golf's an expensive sport. And I often come in every morning and uh a golf a golf set's been taken. Yeah.

SPEAKER_07 36:11

Yeah. I guess the main kind of thing is yeah, keep your valuables with you or hidden so that they aren't going to be taken by people who just see it as opportunistic.

SPEAKER_05 36:22

Well, the s the clear message is to to look before you leave and get that message out, you know, to the family. You know, sometimes these families have two, three vehicles on the drive, people have got busy lives. We all leave stuff from time to time. But if we can remember that message, um we're gonna really reduce crime, which you know, we we can spend our time investigating other areas for you.

SPEAKER_10 36:43

Mate, thank you very much for coming in and uh take that message to heart, especially if you're a golfer. This is WA Police Confidential.

SPEAKER_02 36:57

And time for the news headlines across the state. Here's Claire Sienta from the Police Media Unit.

SPEAKER_01 37:02

Well, this week, Armadale detectives are actually appealing for public assistance as they investigate a high-value burglary. So uh the victim, a woman in her 80s, fortunately wasn't home at the time when unknown offenders broke into a residence in Gosnors on Thursday, the 28th of May, and they stole a safe full of a significant amount of cash and jewellery and sentimental jewellery quite valuable to the victim. So um detective first-class constable Carl Vanderlinden um put that put out that public appeal um this week, and and here's a little bit of what he had to say.

SPEAKER_09 37:40

There were several people in the area at the time. Um, of note, one male um was walking in the area who was wearing a black cap, uh black and white jacket with gold writing on the back, uh, beige pants, and black runners. Detectives would like to speak to this male as we believe he might have seen something in the area at the time.

SPEAKER_01 38:05

So, yeah, really appealing for anyone with any information, anyone who has um any knowledge of that person that we're appealing for to come forward, um, please contact police, please contact crime stoppers. We'd really like to resolve this one for that victim. Meanwhile, on Saturday, I'm not sure if you were out in Herne Hill or any of our listeners were out in Herne Hill on Saturday. There was quite a significant amount of traffic chaos that was out in Herne Hill over the weekend. Police had to step in to assist, but it was all um due to an event that was being held out there. A Buddhist monk had announced on social media that he was blessing um Buddhist people uh over in Herne Hill. And, you know, organizers actually expected about, you know, a few hundred people to to attend. Uh, instead, 10,000 people attended. So it was a completely unforeseen amount of attendees and um, yeah, caused quite a bit of traffic chaos in that region that police went and and attended over the weekend to help out.

SPEAKER_02 39:06

Thanks, Claire. We'll check in with you again next week. This is WA Police Confidential.

SPEAKER_07 39:16

So last week we spoke on our history fact about some of our older officers speaking fondly of the days of a specialist crime squad called the 79 Division. But how did it get its unusual name and what did it do to make it so memorable?

SPEAKER_02 39:30

Yeah. I'm glad you asked, Meyer. Uh back in the late 70s, Perth didn't really have much investigative capability for major crimes after hours. So the local detectives weren't generally rostered on ARVOs or night shifts, which obviously left a big gap in serious crime which took place at night. This was addressed, and the creation of the 79 division was named after the year it was established, 1979.

SPEAKER_10 39:56

Oh, my guess was going to be because they were open nine hours a day, seven days a week, like seven eleven or something. Oh right. That's good, it's good.

SPEAKER_02 40:04

So, yeah, it just goes in line with the year that they were established. So, uh, in simple terms, it was a specialist serious crime response team where detectives would be paired up with a uniformed officer in a crime car to attend major incidents and get investigations started straight away. Cool. If they managed to arrest an offender that same night, they would keep running the entire investigation. But if the offender was still on the run, the team would prepare a case file and then handball it to the local detectives for investigation the next day.

SPEAKER_03 40:32

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 40:33

Either way, it made sure some serious criminal investigations could begin as soon as possible without delay, and it became a prestigious, prestigious division to work. Very prestigious, yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_10 40:44

A lot of people, a lot of the old timers still talk about the good old days. I was in 79 division. I was there at the funeral for 79 division, is what I've heard a few times from some of our uh older uh police colleagues. I probably shouldn't say older, um, seasoned, seasoned police trolleys. Apparently, legend has it that uh some of the detectives carried a coffin into the room um at the let's just say last drinks for 79 division after it was disbanded.

SPEAKER_02 41:13

That is a bit of an urban legend. Yeah, and um also the uh bonnet of a police vehicle from the 79 division, I believe, is on display in the police union headquarters.

SPEAKER_10 41:22

Ooh, might have to see if they might be happy to help us out and donate that to our new police museum.

SPEAKER_02 41:28

Yeah, so as resourcing and operational priorities changed over the years, 79 division evolved into the major incident group, and its functions are now carried out across various major crime and specialist investigation units, like the Rapid Apprehension Squad.

SPEAKER_10 41:43

Yeah, and if you're interested in doing any of those type of investigations, you can join us because we're recruiting at the moment.

SPEAKER_02 41:50

We definitely are. If you're interested, go to Let's Join Forces and apply from there.

SPEAKER_10 41:55

Yeah, definitely do that.

SPEAKER_02 41:57

What's next week's uh teaser, Maya?

SPEAKER_10 41:59

Oh yeah, Maya. What's what's a history fact? So History Fact teaser.

SPEAKER_07 42:04

Next week, we know police have taken on all sorts of extra roles over the years, but did you know there was a time when they delivered mail? We'll have the late mail on that story next week.

SPEAKER_10 42:17

Oh, not bad.

SPEAKER_07 42:19

WA Police Confidential.

SPEAKER_10 42:20

Oh, does that got something to do with like, you know, the letter of the law? Oh well, I guess let's just wait. Let's just wait and find out. Uh, lastly, just want to say thanks very much to everybody for joining us once again, and thank you to my wonderful colleagues for um holding the fort while I've been away for a couple of weeks and doing a really good job. Um, Maya, you've been traveling as well.

SPEAKER_07 42:43

I have been traveling all over the state. All over the state. I'm sure we'll have some interesting stories to come.

SPEAKER_10 42:49

To share, definitely. This is WA Police Confidential.

SPEAKER_01 43:19

Sound editing by Joe and Danny and Sam, cover song by the WA Police Pipe Band, and Cheesy Podcast theme music by Joey Canzaro. By the way, why just listen to a podcast about policing when you could actually be doing it? Let's join forces.wa.gov.au.