WA Police Confidential (Formerly Operation Podcast)
The official WA Police Force Podcast
WA Police Confidential (Formerly Operation Podcast)
Ep 24 - Citizen's Arrest!
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Episode 24 of WA Police Confidential! The official WA Police Force Podcast.
On this week’s show:
- Plumber and part-time crook-catcher Adam Breen joins us to talk about his citizen's arrest outside a Dan Murphy's in Carine!
- Hear about airwing's new drone capabilities!
- We do a deep dive into the legality of collecting 10 cent cans from private property with Acting Senior Sergeant Michelle Rich.
And much more !
This podcast discusses real-life crimes and law enforcement matters. It may include detailed descriptions of criminal activity, traumatic incidents, and other content that could be confronting or distressing, particularly for victim survivors. Listener discretion is advised. If you find any of these topics upsetting, please consider whether this content is right for you and seek support if needed.
SPEAKER_03Welcome to WA Police Confidential. I'm Joey Capazaro. And I'm Sergeant Nate Gilmore. And on the show this week, Adam, the plumber and part-time crook catcher who performed a citizen's arrest and took down a would-be car thief outside of Dan Murphy's and Corinne. It's pretty cool.
SPEAKER_09That's a story you don't want to miss. After that, it's bin night with acting senior sergeant Michelle Rich from Perth Prosecuting. We're going to dive right into the legalities around people collecting recyclables from private property.
SPEAKER_03Hmm. Okay. I've been wondering about that. Uh we'll get into whether these so-called uh recycle hunter people, collectors, if you will. I don't know. Tencent warriors, I've heard them called, um, are just helping the community or, in fact, committing offences as serious as trespassing. After that, don't go anywhere because we discuss new drone capabilities with Superintendent Paul Daly from Airwing. Uh he'll drone on.
SPEAKER_09Look, we're going to be joined by our colleague Claire Santar later with the all the latest news headlines, plus your history fact for the week. Cool. Let's get into it. This is WA Police Confidential.
SPEAKER_03What should you do if you witness a crime in progress? You probably asked yourself that question. Uh Nate, what if it's a serious crime?
SPEAKER_09Life-threatening emergency triple zero. Anything else one through one triple four.
SPEAKER_03But if you do have a very particular set of skills, uh the Commissioner reckons maybe in the right circumstances citizens arrest is okay. We're joined today by Perth Plumber, Adam Breen, who does have a particular set of skills, if you will. You've um you've been practicing Muay Thai.
SPEAKER_10Yeah, yeah, on and off for uh five years, also uh um you know, probably two years of uh jujitsu as well, which which was probably more helpful for for this situation than than the Muay Thai.
SPEAKER_03And you're from Hemmersley, so naturally just don't mess with you kind of thing.
SPEAKER_10Yeah, yeah, it is does bolt the does uh does bolt a Belga, so watch out.
SPEAKER_03Um okay, so you yeah, you recently um found yourself in a situation where you suddenly s witnessed a crime in progress. Yes, yeah.
SPEAKER_10Talk us through it. Yeah, so uh it's just uh Saturday sort of midday, um, getting a couple of drinks for um a bit of a birthday shindig and um yeah, seeing this shady fella walking about in high vies and um um and yeah, just grabs his bottle of spirits in his hand and uh sort of just walks straight through the till um at a at a bit of a pace um in fairness. And um I said to the the guy in front, um, Jay's is it that easy? And he said, uh why are we paying for these? And then the guy said um behind me that that's that's the guy in the stolen car. So um yeah, ran out ran outside and sort of started recording.
SPEAKER_03Not for I mean, amusement sake, more for evidentiary purposes potentially, uh, or amusement sake and evidentiary purposes, but no. Yeah, yeah. Both both are valid, valid things. Yeah, um, okay, so it's not that straightforward though, it's not like he just took off, is it?
SPEAKER_10Oh no, um he didn't he didn't uh quite know how to disengage the handbrake, so um yeah, he wasn't he wasn't going too quick and uh yeah, it wasn't as as smooth of a getaway as I think he would hope to imagine.
SPEAKER_11We're talking like uh super slow-mo Austin Powers.
SPEAKER_10Yeah, just sort of skipped skidding along. Yeah, I mean, if he proper red line that he was probably getting just above the four, but wow.
SPEAKER_03So you're watching this. What are you thinking?
SPEAKER_10I'm just I just couldn't believe my eyes. It was just I I was literally just howling of laughter. Um it was just I just couldn't believe it. I was I was just thinking to myself, the boys are gonna love this. Um and then and then yeah, he did he did get onto the road and sort of he was it was sort of etching his iPhone.
SPEAKER_05Slowly getting away.
SPEAKER_10And I was just thinking of, oh, this can't be real. And there's a the girl next to me just um recording as well, and I just looked at her and I was like, we just smile at each other, and um yeah, and then he's he's sort of got got to the median strip and um he's obviously he's he's thought this this isn't working. So and then that's when I said he's he's gone, I'm like, oh, what's wrong with this and Carl? And the other said, I think the handbrake might be on, mate. And then I just I was like, why did I say that? And then um he's and then he's had like a Eureka moment where he was like, oh Jesus, yeah. And then he's um jumped back in, still handbrake locked on. But this this time he was like proper like foot to the floor, and then um there was smoke coming out of the bonnet, and I was then he's then he's sort of um yeah, given up on that plan and taken off on foot.
SPEAKER_03I reckon we should have a have a bit of a listen to it.
SPEAKER_10Yeah, yeah, can do. Yeah. I reckon you got the handbrake on.
SPEAKER_03Okay, well that what made you decide to uh to get involved?
SPEAKER_10Well, I honestly didn't really think too well about it. Like when um the the girl was on the phone to the police and uh went over and I said, Do you want me to go grab him? They said, Nah, just just leave him. Um and I was like, Oh right. And then when he got out and started running, I was just like, nah, I'm gonna go get him.
SPEAKER_03So you've seen him decide that um he's gonna leg it and you've decided to put the handbrake on his uh escape attempt, if you will. Yeah, yeah. Um and as you said, you've been yeah, you've been doing ninjutsu and muay thai and a whole bunch of stuff like that. You're a you're a plumber, you're from Hemmersley. Yep. The result was probably never in question, but yeah, what happened next?
SPEAKER_10Yeah, so I've um he's he's sort of um gone to start running and uh I'll literally run around this park about I'll do 20 K's around it a every week, just about so I just I've I just shook my head. I was amazing. I mean I don't know this place up at the back of my hand I was I'm nearly I nearly started up the garment um and uh how many how many uh how many calories do you lose during an arrest?
SPEAKER_03It's gotta be six six hundred maybe.
SPEAKER_10I mean I wish I started it now. Um yeah, yeah, it was uh it wasn't it wasn't too well we we didn't go too far to be fair because I I said to him like you won't you won't outrun me and then he's um dropped his bags and sort of shaped up and I was like he probably probably won't beat me there either. So um and then he's yeah he's taken a swing and I've just sort of ducked under it and just yeah picked him up.
SPEAKER_03He was nice enough to give me his back, so um yeah, took took advantage of that and pulled him back and I I put him in a body triangle and then um and look and and to be fair and and and you know the commissioner does say this all the time whenever he's asked about citizens and rest things, if you don't have the skills it's just don't do it. Yeah, um you'd probably agree with that. Oh 100%. Now, you did take a selfie. Yeah, look at it this guy. And you took selfie. Yeah, yeah. I mean that was I mean it's pretty funny. Yeah, yeah. Okay, but it it didn't it didn't exactly go according to plan.
SPEAKER_10No, well the the opportunity doesn't arise every day to take to uh when you can take someone down. I just needed I done needed the the the cold cold evidence um and he took advantage of that situation didn't he?
SPEAKER_03The the bad guy, the alleged bad guy.
SPEAKER_10I uh no, I don't think you did. Well I don't I don't know if you may he might have put on a pretty face for me, I'm not sure. But it does it certainly doesn't look like it in the photo, so um but no the the black eye was actually uh from a from a different moment. Oh, I didn't know yeah, it had a bit of a malfunction going going on downstairs.
SPEAKER_03Um mate, is that a common hazard um in taking yeah?
SPEAKER_09Look, these it just shows these sort of situations can can turn um quite dramatically and and sometimes not in the favour that you'd hoped for. So yeah, we do um encourage people to err on the side of caution and you know if you're gonna get involved, um be prepared to yeah, cop a cop a couple in the process. So yeah.
SPEAKER_03Yep, so you did get you got a headbutt to the eye?
SPEAKER_10Yeah, basically I had him like sort of bridged up when I was sort of pushing him back down, and um as of I should have really gone brought my chest up to his back, but I sort of just pulled him back and then he's he's um thrown his head back and just yeah, cracked me with a with a pretty nice headbutt. So good idea.
SPEAKER_03Um look, I guess at the end of the day, for anyone who's thinking of or considering a you know a life of crime, can can we just top this off by being very transparent about um the state of of of his uh pants, um the status of his pants uh at the time of arrest when police arrived.
SPEAKER_10Yeah, there was a there was a Cody Brown there. Um yeah, he had he had saw it himself. Um so yeah, that's that's one thing I did make the police very aware of and they were quite thankful of.
SPEAKER_09So it is a biohazard, so health and safety is a priority, yeah.
SPEAKER_03So you've had since this um uh you know citizens' arrest, you've had a bit of attention.
SPEAKER_10Yeah, yeah, I've had yeah, I've had uh my phone was blowing up there for a cup good couple of days.
SPEAKER_03Okay. Um you've had uh I think probably it sounds like basically propositions of marriage. Uh people coming up to you on the street. You maybe some TV shows have been sort of like interested in maybe bringing you on.
SPEAKER_10Yes, yeah, I've had uh yeah, a number of um offers and and opportunities come from it.
SPEAKER_03So excellent, excellent, very good. Um I guess thank you for your service is probably appropriate in this instance. Um any any sort of any words of uh words of advice for for anyone out there in the community or I don't know, words of caution for would-be car thieves.
SPEAKER_10Um if you're gonna steal a car, maybe do it do a bit of research on it first and just find out which which sort of handbrake it has. Um and and if it is a manual, yeah, make sure you can make sure you can drive a stick. So but um apart from that, yeah, just just um yeah, just don't do don't do crime, I suppose. Yeah. Or try not to anyway. So yeah.
SPEAKER_03Okay, so in honour of your community service, uh we're gonna ask our WA police pipe band to to cover a song for you, to take us out of this segment. What would you like?
SPEAKER_10Uh give us uh a bit of Dolly Straits, I reckon. Money for money for nothing.
SPEAKER_09Money for nothing? Dolph straits? You're listening to WA Police Confidential. We're listening to WA Police Confidential. From search operations to incident response. Drones are giving police a whole new perspective. But where is the program heading and what's the latest from above? Today, we're joined by Superintendent Paul Daly from the WA Police Air Wing to talk a little bit more about the current status of the WA Police Forces drone program. Sir, thanks for joining us.
SPEAKER_01Oh, you're welcome, no problem.
SPEAKER_09They're a game changer, aren't they? Drones.
SPEAKER_01Absolutely, absolutely. Uh they offer all sorts of benefits, not just to law enforcement, but um, yeah, in multitude of industries, and certainly um for us, they've been very, very beneficial.
SPEAKER_09So, how many have we currently got in our fleet?
SPEAKER_01Is it fleet? Is that the correct terminology? I think you'd call it a fleet. Yeah, they fly around and you have an aircraft fleet. So um we're just popping over a hundred, hundred is the sort of the sometimes more, sometimes less, but we're we're we're sitting in there in around about 107 pilots, something like that. It's scattered across the state.
SPEAKER_09Okay, so they're not just confined to the police air wing uh based at Jandicott, they're spread at regional centres, is that right?
SPEAKER_01Yeah, so uh yeah, I have 13 full-time pilots with us. They're skilled up with a few different um tricks in their bag, but um the the bread and butter ones are scattered across the state. Um there'll be a part-time pilot where the guys with me are full-time.
SPEAKER_09So uh in terms of the size of these drones, are these like the everyday ones you could get at at an electrical shop like JB Hi-Fi? Are they sort of or they're much bigger, specialized ones?
SPEAKER_01Yeah, we go the enterprise version. Uh, although look, let's start off with the little ones, the little Avatas. You can definitely go down to JB Hi-Fi and grab one of those yourself. First person view, so you're looking through goggles. Um, and we're using that in a tactical sense um with our TIG guys. Why put a human into a nasty situation to find out what's going on when you can pop a drone in? So that ticks a huge box for us. Um, and then we're moving into the, yeah, slightly larger. I mean, I think that the everyone would be used to a Mavic 4, Mavic 5, something like that. Uh sorry, a three or four. Uh, but we're going to the M4 T D, the M30. So they are enterprise versions because sometimes we need to move things around with them. Depending on the payload, you're gonna hang off them.
SPEAKER_09So in layman's terms, that's a that's a big drone.
SPEAKER_01Oh, about five kilos. Okay. Yep. Maybe a big price tag attached to it, about 30,000 bucks. Um, and then right up to the flight car 30. Yeah. So that was really just a play around with um some of the the heavier use cases we might have, shifting equipment around. We find ourselves in all sorts of weird and wonderful situations, um, and getting used to that sort of thing and what it might do for policing.
SPEAKER_09So they have a a a range of capabilities and like let's just peel it back a little bit more, is that these are cost effective compared to putting a helicopter or a fixed wing up overhead, isn't it aren't they?
SPEAKER_01Yeah, they are. And and what I caution everybody is that at Airwing I have a suite of tools. You come to me with your problem and I'll find you a solution. So if you I mean a helicopter can do the same thing as a drone, a drone can't do the same thing as a helicopter. It's really what do you want to achieve? And so um, hence the different variety of drones is we might be able to uh put a big camera underneath it. The drone is just a platform to get something in the air. Um, it may be a dropping delivery device, you know, any number of things. And so it's looking into a bag of tricks and saying, well, this is the most appropriate tool for that job because it's got a camera with thermal imaging if we're working at nine.
SPEAKER_09Great for a land search, right?
SPEAKER_01Oh yeah. Look, that we're even gonna we'll be moving into the fixed wing. Everything we've got now is quadcopter based.
SPEAKER_09Yes. So the with the rotors.
SPEAKER_01That's it, four little rotors, just like you'd see at JB Hi-Fi. Yep. But we are going to move into uh the fixed wing V toll, which is called vertical takeoff and landing. Uh, and with that fixed wing, you get the aerodynamic lift on the wings and you get much better endurance. So with a price of gold at the moment, and people out there trying to find a little bit of it, they do find themselves lost. That's the sort of thing that we could hit the ground running with very, very quickly. And we're doing our immediate reflex action searching. If you need to bring in the bigger equipment, the helicopters, the planes, by all means we'll keep throwing things at it.
SPEAKER_09Amazing. So uh the other thing as well is I guess these these drones can be deployed way quicker than water chopper can. You know, you need to um, you know, have your crew ready, make sure fatigue is addressed, all those sort of things. Whereas drone in in an actual uh hard hard box, chuck it in the back of the car, go to the scene, deploy.
SPEAKER_01That's the idea, right? Yeah. So um having them scattered across the state, air support has always been uh a wish and a want for law enforcement. You see things from the air you can't see on the ground. Uh and if you've got a suspect running um and the the ability for an aircraft to follow that suspect and uh guide our guys into it, that is just gold. Now, we don't get a lot of um uh protracted um operations. So, from that respect, the short, sharp 30 minutes that a drone can buy you is generally all you need. So um to be able to get our regional WA brothers and sisters air support um has been a real driving um motivation for us and get that embedded into our our agency as they are across the world.
SPEAKER_09We've seen um a recent example up in was it Kananara where the drone was quite um pivotal in bringing a stolen car.
SPEAKER_01Broom.
SPEAKER_09Oh, it's broom? Yeah, what happened there?
SPEAKER_01Oh, they had a great success. So a stolen car um in town, they were able to launch a drone, locate that vehicle, track that vehicle from the air. So that's what's important. I think everyone's seen the hostile vehicle aggression that goes on, and um it's a dangerous for everybody involved in that. But being able to follow that drone from the air to the point where the driver got out and ditched the vehicle is now on foot, uh, and the thermal imaging at night able to pinpoint where that offender was hiding safely in custody, and that's our best outcome. No one wants to go to work or get up that morning and go, I'm gonna get hurt in an incident. So for us to be able to safely apprehend that person, we've done our job, um, and that is a gold standard for us.
SPEAKER_09No, that's really that's such a great outcome. And I think we're very fortunate to be uh, would you say, one of the leading agencies in Australia that are using drone capabilities in law enforcement?
SPEAKER_01Yeah, we we're certainly um very um innovative in what we can do. I'm extremely well supported where I sit, um, a commander, an AC, and a DC and a commissioner that are just right behind it. So that makes um um my responsibilities in delivering a whole lot easier. We have um with that support been able to progress a lot better. Um and I guess I don't look at um an agency and go, how many pilots and how many drones have you got as a measure of success. Um I'm very interested in looking at what's your foundation that supports it. So do you have your um structure of staff, FTE, your maintenance controllers, your safety personnel? All of that goes to um strengthening a program. It's not, I know everyone thinks it's quite easy. You turn it on, you hit the sticks, and you're flying. But we are a commercial operator, we're subject to all of the CASA regulations and the exemptions that we've been getting. So um we are also a law enforcement agency. So for us to be flouting the law, um, that's just not on.
SPEAKER_09So we gotta we've gotta be setting the examples. Absolutely. Yeah.
SPEAKER_01Um, and so we we um I take great pride in the fact that my team is held up to that standard that um the rest of um emergency services, even industry, um, when CASA give you a double page spread in their safety magazine as a shining light, um, you know, hey, you're going all right. So we're we're um we're very happy with that. And yes, we do have um an excellent um program that's well supported, and and I, you know, I'm really proud of them.
SPEAKER_09Excellent. Thank you so much for uh dropping into the podcast and giving us the buzz on our drone program. More to see in this space in uh coming months.
SPEAKER_01Oh, absolutely. We have all the intentions of getting bigger and better. Technology is just rocketing along at such a pace. So being able to harness that, implement that, deliver the safety for our people and our community. Let's not forget that. Um, big priorities for us, and we're really excited to be right in the middle of it.
SPEAKER_09Excellent. Superintendent Paul Daly from the Air Wing, thank you so much. This is WA Police Confidential. You're listening to WA Police Confidential. They're patrolling Perth armed with gloves and shopping bags, turning rubbish into cash. But are Perth's can Crusaders environmental heroes or criminal masterminds? Acting Senior Sergeant Michelle Rich from Perth Prosecuting joins us today to tell us more. Michelle, thanks for joining us. We've had a member of the public ride in and ask us this question Is a man's trash really another man's treasure or are they in potentially in trouble with the law?
SPEAKER_03This is this is just to be clear, these are the people who are going into the bin uh to grab uh recyclable materials and then they take that and they get I think it's containers for the change so they can get paid for it. Back to Nate's question. Yeah, over to you.
SPEAKER_08Excellent. Thanks for having me, guys. So essentially where this starts is um yes, taking property out of bins is a stealing offence. So it either is owned usually by the homeowner or by um under local council laws. So essentially somebody owns that property at a point. Um so yes, it is a criminal offence. However, then we have to look at this for a public interest sort of thing. So if somebody you if you go to a person's property and you start taking containers out of their bin and they're e they don't mind, or they say sure, go for it. If they say sure, go for it, fair bump, play on. But there is no issue with that. They you have their consent to take that property. Um if they say uh please get off my property, I do not want you in my bin, it's probably best that you just leave. Okay, because then you may be committing what's called a trespass under 70 capital A of the criminal code, where you're entering somebody's property to so there is there is some legalities to it. Now it comes down to you know the prosecution side of it and what what do we do with that? Um essentially you're you're less likely to become under the scope if uh you just respect what you're doing, respect the people around you, respect what's happening. If you're taking things out of the bin and you're leaving a bigger mess, you're more likely to invoke somebody coming to you and saying, hey, this is not appropriate. Whereas if you go in and you take it and you leave and nobody and the person there is happy to for you to do that, there's no problem. But if you're approached with a problem, best that you leave.
SPEAKER_03Okay, just quickly before this. So that is a fantastic legal explanation. Yes. Um put the law aside, but I'm just curious, um, if somebody came and said Michelle, can I go can I rummage through your bin um and and take your cans and bottles? What would you say?
SPEAKER_08I personally wouldn't have too much of an issue with it because it's still my body.
SPEAKER_04We're visible over tomorrow.
SPEAKER_08You're welcome. You might find some other things in there. Um but what yeah, I personally wouldn't have an issue with it because I um my husband may because he is a big containers for change person. We collect he he we drink our own cans and we have them in our own house. He collects boxes of them at our house. Um so he may have an issue. I personally, if somebody is willing to go through a bin to gain a dollar, I it's not I don't mind for my property. If you're on my property um and you are causing a grief to me, then I might have an issue.
SPEAKER_03Do do and and um out of curiosity, Nate, have you ever come across a an issue or an instance where there are two people who are looking to extract containers from someone's bin and they enter into, I guess, an altercation, like containers, containers for rage?
SPEAKER_09Wow. Um, no, I haven't, but I am aware of two individuals in my suburb that um they kind of alternate and I'm waiting for that moment where they cross paths and to sort of see what happens. They're two older ladies, and I believe one of them is actually collecting for charity, and she's put signs on her cart to say exactly what she's doing. So look, you've got to understand some of these people are doing it for the right reasons to help others. Some out there may also be struggling, um, looking for a little bit of extra extra change. But I think the message is what we're trying to get across is look, just you need to be respectful. Um, if you cross that boundary, quite literally, um, could be committing an offence.
SPEAKER_03Correct. Has there been a successful prosecution in this space?
SPEAKER_08Not that I have seen. I liked the bin. Well done. Um uh not that I have seen, no.
SPEAKER_03Um in relation to you could have gone, that's rubbish. Um terrible. And Nate, if you want to use it later on, you can recycle it.
SPEAKER_09I'm waiting, I'm trying to think of an Ibis pun, but I'm not quite there yet.
SPEAKER_08Um look, I think in relation to the two people that um are going to bins together, if there's one can, have an adult discussion. If there's two cans, that's compromise or share. Um, but again, it comes back to that respecting everybody involved in this. Um, you know, and the council have a say in these bins as well. They're their bins. You pay rates to have those bins, but they the the property within those bins retain remains the property of the council. Local laws are going to differ between councils. Um, but again, essentially just respecting what is happening is going to save a whole lot of issues.
SPEAKER_03It's not dissimilar to um that the old verge collection debate, isn't it?
SPEAKER_08It's exactly the same, I would say. Yes. So there's there is an argument about um abandoned property. Um, this does not fall under abandoned property. So this is put into a specific place for a purpose to be removed. So legally, it probably doesn't fall into that abandoned property space, um, and neither does the verge collection. So um yeah, it this is why it is technically illegal.
SPEAKER_03So no no trash talk. Just real talk here.
SPEAKER_08That's a rubbish joke. You can it is a rubbish joke.
SPEAKER_03Uh you probably the best advice, just go and ask, knock on the door and say, Hey, do you mind if I take take your recyclables?
SPEAKER_08Yeah, generally I see people early morning, late night. So people probably don't even know that they've been gone through. Um, it's probably not a violation in any way, shape, or form. Um, if those people don't know about it and they're respectful. If you do knock on the door and say, Can I have a look? and people say no, leave it be. If people say, of course, no problem, that's fine as well.
SPEAKER_09Maybe don't knock on the door at 4 a.m. though. Don't knock on the door at 4 a.m. Get some problems there and it's we come back to respectful. I have I have seen a little workaround too uh in a couple of suburbs where people have actually put the cans aside and put them next to the bin.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, I've definitely seen that too, and I think that's really nice. As you said, Nate, some of these people are definitely 100% struggling, some of them doing it for the right reasons. Um, well, I'd argue probably everyone's probably doing it for the right reasons, and it's recycling. Just the motivation for it is maybe different.
SPEAKER_09But I think it's going to get more competitive too now that wine bottles and and other bigger items have been added to the big scheme.
SPEAKER_03How much do you get for a wine bottle? It's all 10 cents.
SPEAKER_08Still 10 cents, but they're harder to carry. It takes up more space in your bag. So much more space in your bag, and you've got a big muscles, and it's a whole different collection point. I mean, it's good for someone.
SPEAKER_09Joey likes a bit of wine, don't we? I do like, I do like.
SPEAKER_03You are welcome to, my friend. Um look, I I think I think we've solved the mystery um of whether it's a crime or not. And um is there anything else, Michelle, that you'd like to add?
SPEAKER_08I think that we've covered off on it. I appreciate you guys having me. And yeah, if just be respectful of each other. And if you've got if somebody does say no, then respect that. They're entitled to say so. If they don't, and they're happy for you to take them. Enjoy your collection point.
SPEAKER_03Absolutely. Enjoy that can do attitude.
SPEAKER_08Yeah, nice.
SPEAKER_05That was the last one, I promise.
SPEAKER_09Acting senior sergeant Michelle Reach from Perth Prosecuting. Thank you so much for taking the time out of your busy schedule. You're listening to WA Police Confidential.
SPEAKER_03The internet has changed a lot of how we do business here at the West Australia Police Force. Certainly changed how criminals actually operate as well. So it kind of makes sense that um as crime evolves, so do we. Uh three years ago, the West Australia Police Force launched something called Safe to Say. It's an innovative anonymous reporting platform that has now provided thousands of victim survivors of sexual abuse with safe, secure, and confidential uh means of coming forward to police.
SPEAKER_09We're joined by Detective Senior Sergeant Brett Townsend and CEO of Crime Stoppers, Dr. Vince Hughes, to tell us a little bit more about the Safe to Say platform and the success it's had a lot of time.
SPEAKER_03Over the past three years.
SPEAKER_12Yeah, thanks, Nathan.
SPEAKER_03Okay, so so this is it used to be that people might have to go into a police station, maybe they call, call and speak to a person, but this is a way of reaching out and making that first contact and maybe building your trust in police and what finding out whether or not well what support police can offer you and and and and you know whether or not they can investigate until they're confident. How many people have actually used it, do you reckon?
SPEAKER_12Uh I believe up to now there's about three and a half thousand reports that have come through in the last three years, um, which is three and a half thousand that WA police would not have known about if this platform wasn't in existence. Um, and Joey, the the beauty about this platform is that the traditional methods of going to report at a police station or calling police can be quite daunting for these victim survivors. Um, so this safe to save platform, which is I believe world first, it's got two-way functionality that allows um my detectives to interact with these um victim survivors and actually give them the options available to them which they would have not necessarily known were out there. Um and they can remain anonymous if they wish to. Um and my team work with these victim survivors to build their trust and to progress whatever matter they've um wished to disclose.
SPEAKER_03So start off anonymous if they if and when they choose to do so, they can escalate to the point where they're making uh uh an actual police report or having an interview and and maybe going down the road of getting some justice for themselves and stopping someone else potentially from becoming a victim of the case. Okay. Um, you had an interesting um observation uh before we started recording that in this world first space, if you will, that the the unique functionality of uh safe to say.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, look, it goes back to my time as a as an intelligence analyst back here in Western Australia, police back in the late 90s. Um we used to deal with Cromstopper's reports. Cromstopper's reports then and now are one way. So the information comes in. Still very valuable, extremely valuable. No, no, I'm not saying that's still very, very valuable, and it adds certainly to the to the to the story. However, I would always ask, and a lot of the analysts would say, if we could just get one more piece of information, maybe we could do something. And I I find the phrase that you know, um the report gives you information, but the conversation gives you understanding, you get to understand the context. So that's really was the genesis behind the two-way chat. People said we couldn't do it, people said you'd never be able to do the two-way anonymous chat, but we did, and um I think it's been very successful.
SPEAKER_03Well, I mean, the success maybe you know could be in that it's travelled, hasn't it? There's there's other jurisdictions that are either looking at it or setting this up or have set it up, I think.
SPEAKER_12Yeah, they the the safe to safe system gives people that would not normally um come to police a voice and allows them to interact with our detectives to understand their options available. There's a lot of misunderstanding out there about how police do business. Um, one of which is will the offender find out about safety, stuff like that. So my detectives will work with them and say, well, no, it's up to you. We need to make sure that you're safe, but also we would like your information so we can properly do a report, and then the decision's up to you whether or not you progress the matter or not.
SPEAKER_03Sort of a in in like a try try before you buy almost, it's you're you're you're getting all the information you need before you make that decision to progress.
SPEAKER_12Yeah. And the the measure of success for the Safe to Safe platform is not about purely about how many charges and court outcomes there are. It's about allowing the that section of the community that would not normally come to us that option for us to record it and give them their options and work with them to progress no matter how they see fit.
SPEAKER_03Um you say that, but um, my understanding is uh Nate that there have been a a number of prosecutions and people arrested out of this innovative platform.
SPEAKER_09Yeah, it's been widely successful, and um you know the safe to say platforms contributed to 105 people being charged with over 300 offences. So that's that's just really successful.
SPEAKER_03And of those people, I mean we're talking some of the worst in terms of child sex offences, um, rapists, those sorts of Yeah, the majority of those offences have been either child sexual offences, historical child sexual offences, or current sex matters.
SPEAKER_12Um we've had one where which is going through the courts at the moment, where there was multiple victims, um, their plea guilty is going through the courts at the moment, um, where he'll receive a substantial term of imprisonment.
SPEAKER_03That is, I mean, I mean, that's amazing. Just being able to uh I guess bring justice to multiple victims. And obviously sounds like someone who's a recidivist repeat offender. You've also saved potentially others from suffering the same fate. Um I guess if you we do have many international listeners, luckily. Um and if you're from another policing jurisdiction and you want to know more about this, can they reach out?
SPEAKER_12Yeah, sure thing. The um the safe to safe platform is not purely just dedicated to Perth. We get reports from all over the world and interstate too. Um and even though the offence is not it's primarily occurred within WA, we can for that onto other jurisdictions for them to be progressed. Incredible.
SPEAKER_03Um look, I think I think the message here is that it's just another another deterrent, if you will. Um if you're a bad guy, um, if you're a bad person out there committing these sorts of offences, you know, we have another tool in the tool chest to catch you. But if we don't, I mean if we don't, if we just take this out of the equation, I think um there's another there's another very very um compelling reason why you may not want to commit a crime in this jurisdiction, that is now I'm a big fan of uh a movie called Taken uh with an act with actor Liam Neeson is the is the star. And I I also happen to think that Vince sitting to my left here, who's a very good-looking man, like Liam Neeson, has an uncannily cool and similar voice to Liam Neeson. So I'm just wondering if maybe you could just read this, read this out for me, Vince. Uh and if you're a baddie and you're listening to this, you should should be shivering in your boots right now.
SPEAKER_02I don't have any money, but what I have are a very particular set of skills, skills I have acquired over a very long career, skills that make me a nightmare for people like you. If you let my daughter go now, that'll be the end of it. I will not look for you. I will not pursue you, but if you don't, I will look for you. I will find you and I will kill you.
SPEAKER_03Just um we have our own Liam Neeson right here in the West Australian Police Force. He is deadly. Um his particular set of skills, if we're being being real for a moment here, is Crime Stoppers, which has been uh an absolute um wildly successful um initiative for the West Australian Police Force over many years, and it's really important that people still use it and Nate plugs it every week. I am the media liaison for Crime Stoppers and I work quite closely with uh with Vince and his team and um Yeah, and um you know in all seriousness, if if you are somebody who um is a bit nervous about going into a police station or calling, you I would encourage you to use this platform. And you've as you've heard today, um it's been really successful for a lot of people. It's got the justice, it's it's kept a lot of people safe. So it's safe to say, literally, it's been a great success. Um, and uh congratulations to everybody involved. And you know, a big a big sort of uh shout out, of course, to all those who are brave enough to reach out as well. It takes a lot, but you are potentially saving someone else from suffering the same fate as yourself.
SPEAKER_12And from my own point of view, like I came on to this project was safe to say in its infancy, where it was obviously a new project, the build-in blocks were new and will transform in the uh the platform into what it is today, and some of the um advancements that we've put into with Vince's assistance has been the Google translating ability, which means that we that the reporting platform is able to um engage with the cold community. Um, it's also um been streamlined a lot so that it makes the report a lot easier for victims to report. Um, it's gone on to its own server, which means that it's a police-only purpose-built system, which is now, I believe that's what test money is taken on. So it's allowed us to um reach out from WA out to other states and jurisdictions, which is what we what we want in the end of the day. So fantastic.
SPEAKER_09I think if um anyone's curious about it, they can access safe to say through the Crime Stoppers website, uh, or they can just search safe under the number two and say uh and go from there.
SPEAKER_03Yeah. Fantastic. Thank you very much for coming on the podcast, gentlemen. Um, just a just a final message, if you will, in all seriousness, from Vince to all the baddies out there.
SPEAKER_02We will find you and we will arrest you. This is WA Police Confidential.
SPEAKER_00All units. The WA police forces looking for people, all kinds of people. People in the tech, in the commodio, into formal driving, dumb people, and horse people, people who like motorbikes, pushbikes, planes, helicopters, and boats, people who are big on community helping others and solving true crime, not just watching it, you know. Ordinary people who are up for doing extraordinary things.
SPEAKER_07If you could be one of these people, you've found your people. So much, let's join forces.
SPEAKER_03And now for the bad news with Claire Sienta. It's pretty much always bad news, unfortunately. Claire, what have we got this week?
SPEAKER_06Well, thanks for having me, Joey. You may have heard a little earlier this week. Um, tragically, a 35-year-old woman was uh allegedly killed at a residence on Mills Street in Bentley. A 12-year-old girl was also found seriously injured nearby on Albany Highway in Cannington. Now, a 16-year-old boy was arrested at the time. He has since been charged over the death and serious injuries. He's actually the son and um and brother of the 35-year-old and 12-year-old victims. So he's been charged with murder and attempt to unlawfully kill. So homicide squad um doing their due diligence and investigation. We'll see how that plays out before the courts. Meanwhile, over in Kalgoolie, a 42-year-old man has been charged after a woman suffered multiple stab wounds on Monday on Hannon Street in Kalgoolie. Um, now those two people were known to each other, but it will be alleged by police that prior to that incident, the man was also involved in the sale and supply of illicit drugs and allegedly assaulted another woman in a separate incident on the 8th of July. So that 42-year-old man has been charged with attempted to unlawfully kill aggravated assault occasioning bodily harm and a series of drug offences. And just lastly, Arson Squad are investigating quite a significant house fire which broke out on Forest Street in Mandra just before 2.30 this morning. So on Thursday, the 23rd of July. Um, DFUS attended and extinguished the blaze, and there were no injuries. So the cause of that fire is undetermined at this stage. So anyone with information should contact police.
SPEAKER_09Thanks, Claire. This is WA Police Confidential.
SPEAKER_03Thank you very much for listening to another episode of WA Police Confidential. Um, before we go to our history fact, Nate, another fact that might be interesting. We we had a guest on who used to be your partner, correct? Correct? Yes.
SPEAKER_09Yes. Um Detective Senior Sergeant Brett Townsend was my permanent partner back in the 2010s, uh, when I we were based at the tr then traffic enforcement unit. Yes.
SPEAKER_03Did you guys ever destroy a city block?
SPEAKER_09Oh, no, but we we were um notorious for um maybe damaging a few police vehicles during VADE incidents.
SPEAKER_03Well, or well, obviously for the right reasons.
SPEAKER_09Yes, we uh we got the results uh and protected the community. That's definitely a fact.
SPEAKER_03So I just I just definitely have a yeah, I've got a mental image of you guys flying your car flying through the air at high speed.
SPEAKER_09Look, there there are uh occasions where we were um yeah involved in Starsky and Hutch style moments, I could say that much. Excellent, excellent.
SPEAKER_03Okay, all right. Um now last week's history fact we teased uh was that the first visit from a reigning monarch to uh Western Australia was almost well, it almost didn't happen because of a, I think it was a pandemic at the time.
SPEAKER_09Yeah, that's right. In 1954, Queen Elizabeth II and the Duke of Edinburgh arrived in Perth as part of their historic tour of Australia, which was the first visit by a reigning monarch to the country. Uh for Waypol, it was a massive operation. Uh it was to protect the royal couple, protect uh manage the crowds, and just make sure everything had run smoothly. Um, but then there was that unexpected challenge of a polio outbreak, which swept through WA and actually ended up with 436 cases recorded. So fearing that the Queen could be exposed, police and the government of the day put strict measures in place. This sounds very familiar. It does. The royals were kept in isolation uh uh on the royal yacht between engagements, uh, only ate food prepared on board, and even handshakes and bouquet presentations were banned. Wow. Hmm. Okay. Some events were cancelled, but thanks to the careful planning and the huge effort of the WA police, the visit went ahead uh safely and uh proved that WA police, like always, are ready to protect the community, even when the most famous visitors on the planet visit our city.
SPEAKER_03So no QR codes.
SPEAKER_09No scanning into restaurants. No, I don't think the technology was available back then.
SPEAKER_03QR back then stood for like Queen Regent or something.
SPEAKER_09There probably wasn't any mask res regulations or anything like that either.
SPEAKER_03So I wouldn't have thought so.
SPEAKER_09Yeah.
SPEAKER_03Well, good, good, good. I'm glad that one worked out. What about next week? You got a teaser for next week's fact?
SPEAKER_09Next week, we're gonna bring you a story about cops to the rescue, how they saved the state's very own black swan population in 1890. What? Yeah. You're kidding me. I'm not?
SPEAKER_04Okay.
SPEAKER_09I'm not swanning around here.
SPEAKER_04More of this. Hopefully less of this. Next week. What is complicated taking this down?
SPEAKER_06And cheesy podcast theme music by Joey Canzaro. By the way, why just listen to a podcast about policing when you could actually be doing it? Let's join forces.wa.gov.au.
