How To Build Emotional Safety In Relationships

Chemistry is easy. Emotional safety takes skill. We sit down as Shantae and Mel and get real about the difference between butterflies and a relationship that actually feels like home, the kind where you can exhale instead of walking on eggshells.

We talk through the building blocks of emotional safety in relationships: consistency that shows up every day, accountability that does not dodge responsibility, and communication that can handle a hard truth without turning into chaos. We also name the patterns that quietly destroy connection, like control disguised as “keeping the peace,” silence that turns into bitterness, and the way defensiveness can make even a loving partner feel unsafe.

Then we go deeper into what makes safety complicated, especially in marriage and blended families. We share honest moments about early insecurity, co-parenting realities, the fear of “the ex,” and how withholding information can feel like protection while still poisoning trust. We also connect it back to how many of us were raised, taught to survive emotions instead of speaking them, and why relearning vulnerability is part of becoming a safer partner.

If you want healthier conflict, clearer boundaries, and a relationship where honesty does not feel like war, press play. Subscribe, share this with someone who needs safer love, and leave a review telling us what emotional safety means to you.

Transcript

What Emotional Safety Looks Like

SPEAKER_02 0:01

Chemistry is easy, but safety is rare, and safety requires skill. We're about to get into it. Emotional safety in relationships. I'm Shantae, and I'm Mel. Welcome to the Tudo Chicks Podcast. And we're the Tudo Chicks. Hey, so emotional safety. Are you scared to talk about this today?

SPEAKER_05 0:50

Oh, this is real deep right here.

SPEAKER_02 0:51

Ooh, it's getting deep because at this age, I'm like, butterflies aren't enough. You know, you remember that song, Michael Jackson? Do you kid me, butterflies? I love that song. Inside, inside, inside. Yeah, it's just not enough. I want to feel safe. Well, you already feel safe.

SPEAKER_05 1:14

I mean, this is this is for the people out there. Not for you.

SPEAKER_02 1:20

So, yes, I do. Thank God. I feel emotionally safe in our relationship. There you go. But for those that need to know what emotional safety looks like in a relationship, like, what is it? Like, what is it to you? Even thinking about us, what is it that we have that make you feel emotionally safe?

SPEAKER_05 1:46

Um, for us, I think it's just a really a knowingness that um we're here to stay and that we're fully committed. Um, and that's come through the test of time. I mean, you know, we've gone through a lot, so we've lived a lot of life together, a lot of um just you know, different experiences. So uh what makes me emotionally safe is just knowing. It's like a knowing, a knowing this, yeah, a knowingness. But I will say that I know this was before the in the BS. The BS before Shantae. Shantae. Yeah, before Shantae time of my life, I know that in past relationships, I was told that I was not safe, emotionally safe. Yeah, yeah. Like being with you, yeah, wasn't emotionally safe. I could see that though. For real? Ooh.

SPEAKER_02 2:43

I wasn't expecting you to say that only because, and granted, you have changed so much um over the years. And I do know when you and I first got together, one thing that always stuck out to me that didn't make me feel emotionally safe is that you were not open and vulnerable.

SPEAKER_05 3:09

That's what it was. Yeah, that's what it was.

SPEAKER_02 3:11

You were not open and vulnerable, you were very, and it had a lot to do with your background. It had a lot to do with the fact that you were taught to just be kind of private, real closed off, real closed off, and you came from an environment where you didn't talk about a lot of things, a lot of things were kind of like swept underneath the rug. Versus when you and I got together, I was more of I'm very community and I want to express myself, and it just didn't really feel like a safe, emotionally safe space because I felt like I was going to be the only one pouring out my heart and sharing, and you came off very um, I wouldn't say you came off mean, but you came off very just you were always on the like I gotta defend, defend, defend. So yeah, I I can see how um someone said that about you. So whoever said it.

SPEAKER_05 4:24

So yeah, so so you know, thinking in terms of emotional safety, um I definitely think that that you've got to be really comfortable with yourself um to be emotionally safe for someone else. And looking back at it, uh during that time, I wasn't emotionally safe for anyone just because I was really closed off, wasn't communicating, um, and I wasn't really out. I won't say not really, I wasn't out, wasn't very comfortable with myself, which furthered the whole thing of being, you know, not emotionally safe. So you you gotta know who you are, yeah, you know. Yeah.

Consistency And Accountability

SPEAKER_02 5:11

Well, whoever got that version of you, you know, hey, look at the version I have now. Hashtag winning, hashtag winning. Hashtag she all right. But you know, I can say that a big thing for me to feel emotionally safe, I have to feel like I could exhale, like I could breathe. And you give me that. Um you you make me feel comfortable because I know I'm very, I'm a very outgoing person. I I love people. I love to, you know, be around people and talk. And I don't feel like it's it's not a safe space when it when it comes to you in that era. So I feel like I can breathe. I can, you know, I feel that that peace with it. Um, also a big thing for me is consistency. Um, the only way I could feel emotionally safe is you gotta show up for me every single day. And I know that there's not a day that you're not going to show up. And I'm not just talking about waking up next to you, your presence. I'm saying if I need you, you're going to show up in a way that you're letting me know, hey, I'm here. I got you. And so I think when we talk about emotional safety in relationships, people don't realize and understand it's consistency, it's accountable, it's accountability, yeah, it's being able to exhale. All those things matter. Being your authentic self, being able to be your authentic self.

SPEAKER_05 6:56

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 6:57

So, I mean, what how do you feel about accountability with emotional safety? It's hard to be with uh emotionally safe when a person doesn't accept accountability.

SPEAKER_05 7:11

Yeah, and that can be that could be rough. That could be rough of like you said, I was on used to be a lot of times on the defensive of always trying to defend my position and I am who I am, and this is you know, my parents raised me that and uh they must have done an okay job. But yeah, it was a lot, it was a lot, it was a lot. So yeah, I think within understanding if you do want to be in a relationship and have positive relationship, relationship, uh positive relationship, romantic relationship, friendship, work relationships with people, you've got to exercise some degree of accountability.

Conflict Without Chaos

SPEAKER_02 7:57

Now, here's a big one though Conflict without chaos. I should feel emotionally safe to come to you and we have a disagreement about something and not feel like it's gonna blow up and be this huge argument, this huge thing. Um, I hear people say all the time, oh, I just didn't say anything because I didn't want an argument, or I didn't say anything because I didn't want to piss the other person off or make the other person mad. So, how can you be in a relationship with somebody that you can't feel free to articulate your true feelings? How do you feel?

SPEAKER_05 8:41

And you know what is uh at the end of the day, is I mean, it is what it is. I mean, I I remember a couple of times where you packed my stuff up. You thought I wasn't gonna say it up.

SPEAKER_02 8:55

I didn't know you were gonna say it.

SPEAKER_05 8:57

Real, real. Oh, yeah. Yes, indeed. You packed my stuff up and um I not so gently threw it down, not so gently threw it down the stairs. Oh Jesus.

SPEAKER_02 9:08

My God, my God, yeah, I remember that. I actually I threw it over the staircase, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 9:17

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 9:18

I mean, that's big for me. Um being able to go to somebody and talk about you know your true feelings and being able to sit down with them and have a conversation where they just accept it, and you can agree to disagree, but why does it have to end in chaos? Chaos.

SPEAKER_05 9:39

So that was a chaotic, chaotic moment. Does that qualify as a chaotic moment?

SPEAKER_02 9:45

We it was on both of us. We definitely we were having some difficulties, technical difficulties, but you know, we worked it out, we've we've we figured it out, but yeah, that's that's huge. I just feel like um, hey poota poodle. I feel like when we're adults, uh we have to, we can't continue to use the same excuse as to my mama did it this way. My mama did it this way, right? My daddy used to do this.

SPEAKER_05 10:18

They may not have done it right, they may have not done it the right way, right? And that that was the reality that I had to face of just because we were taught this, um, it doesn't mean that it was the 100% right way to do it. And I used to stand on that. Oh, you know, I used to stand on that of, you know, this is how I grew up. I didn't turn out to be so bad. So, you know, it is what it is. But, you know, growing and maturing, I then realized that that doesn't necess that did not necessarily mean that it was right.

SPEAKER_02 10:52

Right.

SPEAKER_05 10:53

And there were other ways to do things and and uh better ways to to handle things. Correct. Yeah, that that accountability, I think the accountability piece is so big because when someone is not accountable, it rears its ugly head in every aspect of their life. Cross the board. And they cannot meet the mark. Cross the board. They can't meet the mark. They can't meet the mark, you know? Um, I ask you, you know, we're friends, and and and and I ask you to go and get something for lunch for me, you know, and you mess up the order or whatever. I mean, I'm just trying to take a small approach, yeah. And you just don't want to take accountability that you didn't write down um what I wanted on my sandwich. You know, it really didn't matter to you. It wasn't a it wasn't a big deal. You did not have um that kind of interest. It's a small example, but you know, it goes to that large but it'll continue to show up in the city.

When Control Becomes Silence

SPEAKER_02 11:58

It shows up in other areas of their life. Yeah. Yeah. And so I think what people have come to realize or come to not necessarily realize, I think what people have started to do is they've started to misinterpret what emotional safety is. So now people think control is emotional safety. Is control really emotional safety? No, control is control. Control is control. Control is it's okay as long as I'm doing exactly what it is you want me to do. It's okay as long as I'm saying exactly what it is you want to hear. That's not emotionally safe for me. That means that I'm just really saying whatever to keep the peace.

SPEAKER_03 12:48

Right.

SPEAKER_02 12:48

But in the back of my mind, I really want to say, no, you know, you ticked me off because you didn't do this, this happened, this occurred, and it made me feel this way.

SPEAKER_03 12:59

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 12:59

So now what I'm feeling like that control has now moved into silence. So now I'm silencing my truth.

SPEAKER_03 13:08

Right.

SPEAKER_02 13:08

That's not emotional safety for me. Uh, you know, control and silence turns into bitterness. Bitterness. Yes, down the line. Now I'm bitter. Now I'm mad because I didn't get the opportunity to say what it was I wanted to say. I didn't get the opportunity to honestly really express to you how I truly feel. And if I did, would it make any difference?

SPEAKER_05 13:36

Right, because you're not gonna be accountable.

SPEAKER_02 13:38

You're not gonna be accountable.

SPEAKER_05 13:40

So that's that's that's two chips passing in the night. And and and and when you're in a relationship or marriage, you know, uh, unfortunately, I've heard stories uh where people, you know, they're married and they're in these kind of situations where they're not talking to each other. So y'all are literally roommating for 30 years, you know, don't even know each other, married, you know, go to church on Easter and Christmas, Mother's Day, but in that house is just it's a whole roommate situation.

SPEAKER_02 14:14

Whole roommate situation, and one person may feel emotionally safe, but the other one doesn't.

SPEAKER_03 14:22

Right.

SPEAKER_02 14:22

Or the other one is so blindsided and really don't even understand that my partner, my spouse, my girlfriend, my boyfriend, my husband, my wife does not feel that safety to come to me to really be open and have this open and honest, candid conversation with me about how they feel. And we've seen it even with people that, you know, we've been around and we've had conversations like, man, you know, from the outside looking in, it's easy, it's easy to spot and you're like, hmm. If only that person could have just opened up and said, you know, this is what I really wanted. Yeah. And this would have made me happy had you done this.

SPEAKER_05 15:06

Right.

SPEAKER_02 15:06

Instead, I'm just gonna remain silent because this is what this person wants. And now we have peace, but no, we don't. There is no peace because you're bitter. So you see how it goes from control to bitterness to and and and what inevitably happens when the the partner gets bitter, they will satisfy whatever need or whatever void and something or someone else. Absolutely. It's human nature, absolutely, and you know, sometimes that um again, what what emotional safety is not, it is not dependency.

SPEAKER_05 15:55

Right. Or codependency.

SPEAKER_02 15:56

Or codependency. So now I'm relying on this person to why would you rely on someone that doesn't make you feel emotionally safe?

SPEAKER_05 16:11

Desperate desperation and loneliness or socialization. You know, I will always say that women, many women are taught, particularly in our culture, you know, are are taught to put your needs and your interests aside for the needs of your family, the needs of your spouse, particularly male. Um so that's that's the socialization piece. That's what we're taught. And we're taught that that should make us happy and content.

SPEAKER_02 16:42

Well, we're grown adults now, you know, and I know we all can bring baggage from childhood or whatever, but we're all grown adults now. Why is it that now at 30, 35, 40, 45, why are we still struggling with this? Like, is it that we're not literate to what emotional safety is? Like, why do we still struggle with this?

SPEAKER_05 17:10

I think that we struggle with it because we're just not honest with ourselves. Or we don't know how. Um that's a big one. You know, I I had an epiphany literally a couple of weeks ago. Come on, epiphany. I know, right? I know, yeah. So um yeah, I had an epiphany of many times it's not that people just don't want to, they just don't know how. And so we can't fault them, you know, if they just don't know how to. You know, they just don't have the tools, they don't have the the um the ability.

SPEAKER_02 17:52

So some of us inherited uh that we inherited that uh I really don't know how to, so I'm just gonna go off of what I've always, you know, uh this is what I saw in my household, this is what I saw mom do or or dad do or grandma do. So I'm just gonna inherit that I don't know what it is.

SPEAKER_05 18:18

I call it like a toxic neutrality. Oh you know, where you you stand in a neutral position and it's just toxic. You're not moving backwards, you're not moving forwards, you're just standing there forxic and neutrality. Yeah, I mean, literally, and one year turns into five years and turns into 10 years and turns into 20 years, and you're stuck.

SPEAKER_02 18:44

Yeah, you're stuck, stuck being unsafe, right? Stuck not being able to articulate how you feel, stuck being controlled, stuck just stuck, yeah, being unfulfilled. Wow. And so the way we cope with that is we find other people sometimes to fill that void. So if one person makes me feel safe, right? If I could just talk to this person, be myself, open up, there you go. This is my person now.

SPEAKER_05 19:16

That's that's the emotional relationship.

SPEAKER_02 19:18

That's the emotional relationships. That's the talking on the phone, right? That's the meeting up to just have coffee. But um that void is being fulfilled because now I feel safe here.

SPEAKER_05 19:34

Right. Because you ran to someone who would just hear you out.

SPEAKER_02 19:40

Well, I know when I was I felt like when I got a little older and I was grown, and I was like, man, I think I was taught or raised not necessarily how to be safe, but how to survive. So if it meant, you know, you just keep your mouth closed, or if it meant you say something, uh, but what you say may not necessarily be your truth, you're just trying to survive. And I think a lot of people do that, not just in relationships, but even in friendships. Even in friendships, you'll see people just kind of surviving because I want to be this person's friend, I want to be cool with this person, I don't want to hurt their feelings, I don't want us to get into it because I may lose their friendship. So guess what? I'm just going to survive. I'm not going to say anything, I'm just going to be happy. And even though this is not a person I can go to and say, Hey, friend, can I talk to you? Like, I don't feel good about this.

SPEAKER_03 20:50

Right.

SPEAKER_02 20:51

You know, if you have a friend that you can't even talk to and be honest with and be real with and have some accountability, there is no emotional safety in that friendship.

SPEAKER_05 21:01

Right, right, right. I agree.

SPEAKER_02 21:03

I agree. There's no emotional safety. Yeah, I agree. So what is it?

SPEAKER_05 21:08

Mm-hmm. That's a good point. That's a good point.

SPEAKER_02 21:14

So let me ask you this, because we're married now. Do you feel like just because we're married, that you like that emotional safety is just there? Or not just even us, but do you just think as a whole?

SPEAKER_05 21:28

I'm like, why everything gotta be about us?

SPEAKER_02 21:32

But do you think like people just tie the knot and feel like I got my person now? So yeah, now it's safe here. Does marriage bring about emotional safety?

SPEAKER_05 21:46

No, no, marriage doesn't bring about the there's not a tremendous difference between you know where you were. If you were empty in a relationship, but while you A fiance. Maybe you're gonna be empty. You're gonna be empty.

SPEAKER_02 22:04

You're gonna be empty as a spouse. You're gonna be empty as a spouse. And you know why? You know why? Because love doesn't eliminate loneliness. Right, right. It's being intentional does. Right. And that's one thing that I love about you. You'll come to me and you'll say, you know, hey, come on, let's let's go take a ride. And that ride literally maybe down the street to get an ice cream cone. Get an ice cream cone. Or, you know, to Jason's delity, get me a bowl of chili. But it's you trying to be intentional in that moment, saying, Hey, I know it's been a rough day. Let's just ride and talk. Sometimes it just may be us taking a walk in the neighborhood and just having that moment to exhale, to breathe, phones off. Let's talk. How you feeling? Let's check in. We don't do it anymore, but I remember years ago we used to have well, what do we call it? It was a state of the union. The state of the union. And we would come together, and that would be our time to really just you thought I forgot about State of the Union. We haven't done that in a while. But State of the Union was so important because it was the where we are, the status of how you feeling.

SPEAKER_03 23:20

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 23:20

Are you good? Yeah, yeah. Are you okay? Is there anything I can do better? Is there anything that I could change? Anything that have you been upset about something, but you just kind of like still because you know how I can be sometimes. I can sit on it maybe a day.

SPEAKER_05 23:41

No, you sit on it for a couple hours and then uh I get woken up in the middle of the night. Maybe that's when it hits.

SPEAKER_02 23:48

And then you want to talk.

SPEAKER_05 23:49

That's when the spirit hits two or three o'clock in the morning.

SPEAKER_02 23:51

Oh, when the spirit hits me at 2, 3 a.m., you got to get up because now I got to talk about it. But I love the fact that you give me that that space to say, okay, now you're ready. What is it? And I think we do that for each other. Like, what's wrong?

SPEAKER_03 24:11

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 24:11

We gotta have those those check-ins because if you don't, you will hold on to that stuff and you look up and you're mad, you're upset, you're you're lonely because you do start to allow your mind to play tricks on you to make you feel like I'm in this by myself.

SPEAKER_05 24:30

Right, right, right, exactly.

SPEAKER_02 24:32

I'm in this by myself, I'm alone because I can't go to this person and talk to them about it. Because guess what's what's gonna happen? Yes, a fight. It's gonna be a fight. You're gonna get mad, you're gonna become defensive. And now I'm thinking that this is a safe space to just come and tell you how I'm feeling. Now this safe space is turned into a whole combat zone.

SPEAKER_05 24:55

Right.

SPEAKER_02 24:55

We're at war, right?

SPEAKER_05 24:57

Oh, and that's why I always like to um many times couch uh when I'm coming to you and I know it's gonna be a situation. I say, baby, I'm I'm coming to you in a spirit of love.

SPEAKER_02 25:13

In a spirit of love. I know your posture when you come in with that, and it's like, oh Lord, what is it? Yeah, spirit of love.

SPEAKER_05 25:20

And then I drop that bomb. You drop that bomb.

SPEAKER_02 25:26

But you know, with and I say with all our degrees, you know, with all the life experience and the knowledge, why is it that high achieving women and men, why is it that, you know, we have these relationships when we feel like we still have to be this way? And it it could be married, you could be single, but why do we tolerate this? Why do we accept this type of behavior?

SPEAKER_05 25:58

Yeah, I mean I I I think it comes from a place of just feeling like you're you're not worthy of anything better. Um, so that could be a space. It could be a space of you do not know how to fix whatever that's broken. Um so you know, kind of back to that a person who stays in that neutral stage where they can't move backwards, they can't move forward, so they're just sitting on it and time just moves on and you know, nothing changes, nothing gets better.

SPEAKER_02 26:33

So here's where now I'm you know, using this opportunity to ask you, was there is there ever been a time where you didn't feel emotionally safe?

SPEAKER_05 26:48

I think that you said something um actually in your vows. You taking it back? Yeah, I'm taking it back to that because there was there was there was a reason why you know you said that you knew that I did not want to be in a relationship with anyone with children. And I really feel like what fueled that and motivated me to feel that way was because I felt some type of way about that person having a whole life before me and being forever connected to someone else and so just like you had BS, I had BM.

SPEAKER_02 27:31

And I'm not talking about bowel movement, I'm talking about before Millicent. Ding, ding, ding, ding. Correct, correct, correct, correct, correct. I wouldn't have said it that way, but that's the only way it came to my mind. I was like, BM.

SPEAKER_05 27:45

It's done now. It's done. Yeah, it's it's out there, my bad. It's done. So yeah, that was that was a space where it was very uncomfortable because you do feel unsafe where for me it's like I'm offering all of me because there's just me.

SPEAKER_02 28:03

But I was offering all of me, but I was I came with two other people.

SPEAKER_05 28:09

But you know what I'm saying. I'm saying, like, from the perspective of when somebody has children and then they're connected to other people, other persons, things like that, you don't know what's gonna happen, you know, is heard stories all day of women going back into situations just because that's their the the mother or father, you know, of their children, and they just it's easier to try to make it work. They feel that it would be easier uh for them to try to make it work with that person as opposed to starting, you know, anew with someone else.

SPEAKER_03 28:46

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 28:46

Uh, and then you gotta get the kids acclimated that person. How is that gonna work out? You know, what if the kids don't like the person?

SPEAKER_02 28:52

And I I definitely can say that during that time that that was mostly when I didn't feel the safety with us. I felt like any conversation that surrounded the ex orpha. Yeah, I was gonna pop off. You were gonna pop off. It was gonna be an issue. So, in that, what I found that I had to create uh that space for myself. Um, and sometimes, you know, honestly, it got to a point where I felt like I withheld things I didn't tell you for the sake of things not popping off. And, you know, I'm here to tell anybody that if you want your relationship to go down the wrong path, it's start withholding and not being forthright and honest because you know, that in itself is going to take the relationship down the wrong path.

SPEAKER_05 29:53

Right. And and and candidly, I mean, you can feel it. Yeah, is you know, you you think you being slick with the withhold and stuff, and you can feel like, you know, that energy shift. Yeah, you know, and so it's like that's what I'm talking about.

SPEAKER_02 30:10

But is it wrong for a person to withhold something if they don't feel safe enough to say it? If they don't feel like the space has been created for them to put it out there. So, you know, you got to see both sides of the corner here.

SPEAKER_05 30:25

Yeah, yeah, I see it. I mean, I understand why you did what you did, but you see how it becomes, it can be very destructive on both sides. You trying to withhold for peace's sake, and for me, it was, you know, I feel that energy shift is what I'm talking about. You know, this is why I didn't want to do this kind of thing. So yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 30:48

I mean, for me, it was just kind of like I want to choose peace, peace over passion, peace over. It was for me, it was peace over everything. So if that meant, you know, in that moment, okay, I'm not gonna tell her that this happened or, you know, I had to, you know, do this. Um, you know, maybe that would just keep peace in here. Um, but spaces like that, they're just not good places to be in, and they're not emotionally safe. And so what I continue to strive to do, what we continue to strive to do is to keep our space in a place where I s I mean, even I told you even with my daughters, and you told me this, you said growing up as kids, you all were basically, you know, like you don't say certain things, you can't articulate certain things. And I grew up differently. I grew up, we could say whatever we want to say. I think it starts when you're young, of you gotta let your kids be able to come to you and feel comfortable enough to say, hey, when you said this to me today, that truly hurt my feelings. You made me feel like, you know, yeah, but our era, our age group, that wasn't the case. We had older parents and they were just teaching us how they were taught of right. You don't say nothing, you keep your mouth closed. When I tell you to do something, you don't ask no questions, yeah, nothing. And so this generation, because of how we're raised there, right? They're different, right? They ask questions. Everything is but why, right? But why, yeah, but why? Right, but why? And you're looking at them like yeah, because I said so, but you can't say because I said so, because you owe them, you know, some type of explanation. And I know the old school parenting is I don't owe you nothing. I put a roof over your head, I take care of you, I do this, right? But really and truly, we always say, but we were raised like this and it didn't hurt us, but in some ways it did. It did, it did, in some ways it did.

SPEAKER_05 33:05

Yeah, yeah, because it caused it. I mean, it shows up and how we show up in our relationships uh as adults. So yeah. Absolutely.

SPEAKER_02 33:15

So, how about it? Dope or nope? Let's go, let's go. Let's go. So letting your partner have space without questioning them.

SPEAKER_05 33:32

What do I mean?

SPEAKER_02 33:37

What it means is uh I need some space. I'm going on uh a two-day, three-day weekend, and I'll see you on Monday, and you can't question me.

SPEAKER_05 33:50

So, okay, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 33:52

I I don't know if I no, I'm I'm being extreme, but I'm just saying, what if like your partner just came to you and said, you know what? I just need some space.

SPEAKER_05 34:03

Um what I mean.

SPEAKER_02 34:06

I mean, are you okay with saying and you have even said this to me? You told me probably what last year, you was like, I just need a weekend to myself. And I was like, okay, yeah, go and take your weekend. I didn't question you, I didn't say where you're going, who you're going with, because I trust you enough and I'm safe enough to know that and you have like 360 enough, baby, and you better not turn that phone off. Because what I'm coming, but seriously, is that a uh I'm serious. Are you serious? Oh no, you feel about it. Letting your partner have space without questioning. You know, this makes me think of the song Folded. She said, All I had to do was just ask for space. That's all she had to do. But what did she do instead? Baby, come pick up your clothes. I got them folded, I'm gonna leave them at the door. But she's which but when she thought about it, she said, All I had to do, it didn't have to go down like this.

SPEAKER_05 35:16

I'm gonna read those lyrics when we finish up the day and get back with you on that. But but I know this. If I if I and I remember saying the thing about the weekend of I just need a weekend, um, in reality, I don't know how well that would go down, but for life 360. I'm just saying.

SPEAKER_02 35:37

So I guess that takes us into a whole nother conversation about, you know, I know we're talking about emotional safety here, but now that's because I know my spouse. That's no, that's turning into trust. But we're gonna move on because your answer obviously is nope. And obviously, I'm okay with it, so it's dope. Checking in daily for emotional reassurance. You think that's dope?

SPEAKER_05 36:06

Some people may think it's kind of needy, like every minute I got so that there's a difference between somebody calling you like every couple of minutes, you love me, you love me. No, that's neediness.

SPEAKER_02 36:18

But this is why I say needy. Like, I it bothers me with a passion because I'm the personality I can stand on my own. So, say for instance, we go out to a dinner or a gala or a banquet or I don't know, somewhere, and you know, a group of people comes up and they want to talk and we're talking, or you just want to have fun and enjoy the night. So you got to keep coming back over there. You okay? No, you alright? That's not no, that's babysitting.

SPEAKER_05 36:46

That's babysitting and that's coddling. Now, calling to say, hey, I was thinking about you, I wanted to check in on you, you know, that to me is not, you know, I don't think that that's that's being needy or anything like that.

SPEAKER_03 37:00

Hmm.

SPEAKER_05 37:01

I think that that's being attentive and being present. Or saying, calling and saying, hey, I'm I'm kind of having a rough day. You know, I need a little pick me up, a little encouragement, a little support. That's not being needy, that's articulating how I feel. Being real, absolutely. Now, if you're doing that every day, you need to go and talk to somebody. But, you know, with my spouse, if that happens occasionally, you uh you would want me to articulate how I feel and come to you because you're my emotional supporter.

Vulnerability As Healing

SPEAKER_02 37:38

I absolutely can. And I would do the same for you. And Miss Annie is your emotional supporter, she sure is. The reason why she's there emotionally supporting you through this uh conversation, this has been great. You know, I'm I'm learning more. Um, and I know people may say, oh, they've been together 15 years, they know each other. We do, we absolutely know each other. But as life will have it, you continue to grow and you continue to learn more and more every single day. So, guys, here we are. So, next time we're talking about is love enough? Locked and loaded. Oh, locked and loaded. Stay dope. See you next week. And I never want them to view this as just a married couples podcast or whatever. I want them to understand that the Two Dope Chicks podcast is going to cover everything: hard truths, art lessons, finances, business and ambition, cultural conversations. Um, yeah, yeah. Like we're going to cover so much stuff because of who we are, what we do, who I feel like we are to other people. So being vulnerable and being able to articulate our stories, yeah, I feel like there's healing in what we have to say. There's healing in the things that we have gone through as individuals and as a couple.

SPEAKER_05 39:33

You're right, you're right. There's healing in it. I I had I had um it didn't feel like my flow of I didn't, I didn't feel like the flow of two and three. It was I felt myself struggling. I felt myself struggling. I was consciously feeling myself struggling.

SPEAKER_02 39:52

But you gotta you gotta get out of your own head, yeah, and and keep writing.

SPEAKER_05 39:56

I think I think part of that is literally just Millicent, be completely honest about what was going on.

SPEAKER_02 40:03

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 40:04

Be completely honest, you know, is because that could save somebody.

SPEAKER_02 40:08

And although it may kind of be touchy, you know, for one of us, and we may start turning our seat, like, oh, what you about to say? Yeah, what you about to say? We knew this would going into the podcast that this is what we signed up for. This is what we signed up for. That there are going to be some uncomfortable moments for us, and I'm okay sitting in it because again, just like it's healing for the people out there, it's also still healing for me. Yeah, it's also another chance for me to take the mirror and look at myself and say, Shantae, there's some that you got to do better. That's what you got to, you know, be okay with hearing and saying, even if that means I have to come back and say, you know what? I appreciate you for bringing that up. And again, yeah, like I never want to put you back in that space again where you didn't feel safe. And that that's okay. That is okay. That's okay for me. And the great thing about emotional safety is everybody got to get to this point because this is what creates that safety. Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 41:24

Y'all, this is a perfect opportunity because y'all talked about accountability. Y'all talked about emotional safety and the consistency. Consistency. And the one thing that anyone who looks back on a relationship where, like, after you go through your your trials or you go through therapy, where you really look back, like, you know what? Dang it, I wish I would have done this. Like, y'all asked me earlier, like, what did you learn? I'm like, dang, I could have been more patient, I could have done this. I wish I had another opportunity to show up the way that I could have shown if I would have known what I know now. The beautiful thing with this podcast right now, you had an opportunity to be, or give her the opportunity to feel safe, or for you to feel safe. And you didn't take it. The crazy thing is that you have another opportunity right now to be honest and to be vulnerable and to explore that emotional safety right here, right now. So I think that you should ask the question one more time. And I think that you should take the.

SPEAKER_02 42:27

And don't think about it.

SPEAKER_06 42:29

I think you let it go.

SPEAKER_03 42:30

Okay, what did you feel like you left out? You felt like you left out?

SPEAKER_05 42:34

I felt like at a there was at some point I made a decision just to pull back and not go all the way into that answer.

SPEAKER_06 42:44

Talk to her, buddy. Talk to her about it.

SPEAKER_02 42:47

Yeah, but we got to film. The whole time y'all been filming?

Co Parenting Triggers And Full Circle

SPEAKER_06 42:52

Man, I just need y'all a right now. I'm in producer director more. I just need y'all to listen. Not answer that question.

SPEAKER_02 42:58

Was there a time that you did not feel emotionally safe? And why?

SPEAKER_05 43:07

Uh definitely at the beginning. It was, and I would say when I when I'm talking about beginning, I'm talking about like for a span of years. I'm not talking about like month, month is for years. My feeling was you know, I was not really all that comfortable being in a relationship with someone with children.

SPEAKER_02 43:36

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 43:37

Um, and that was because you bring you were attached to a whole nother life, another family, another experience. Um the kids are forever attached to another family because that's their family. You know, I remember one time um there are two things that stood out in my mind. I remember in the one bedroom apartment, you had come down to Orlando, and uh like I had taken a nap or something like that. And it was like a Sunday afternoon. I remember when I woke up, you were in the room and you were on the phone, and it was like this hush-hush talking. And I was like, I walked in there, and come to find out, you were on the phone with your ex. And for me, it it created this immediately, like, damn, just why?

SPEAKER_02 44:30

Why, you know, of some shit like this, of you know, I was on the phone with him. Were we talking about the kids? Were we talking about Well, you're not on the phone? No, I'm I'm not denying that. I'm saying, yeah, I probably was on the phone with him, but also the hard part is I think sometimes when you're dealing with somebody that have kids and they still have to co-parent, if that's what you want to call it, because sometimes people don't co-parent. If you still have to co-parent, there are gonna be times where yes, the person is going to be on the phone talking to their ex.

SPEAKER_05 45:13

Yeah, in these hushed tones, though. And it was the hut, it was the whole context that you know. I had just woken up, I'm in the living room, I'm in the apartment about this big, you know. And so I wake up and to this, you in a whole nother room in these hushed tones. I'm like, well, what y'all, what y'all talking about? I mean, the co-parent, uh, who's doing the pickup and drop off, that's something we don't have to be in hushed tones about. There's no secrecy on this. Right. So I'm trying to figure out what's going on. Right. You know, and so with that, for me, that was like one of those things of, and this is why.

SPEAKER_03 45:51

Yeah, I can't.

SPEAKER_05 45:52

This is why, because you know, the biggest fear, very candidly, for any person in my situation where I'm coming in, just I call it a free agent. I'm a free agent, unattached, is you make the emotional investment, and it is more convenient for that person to end up back with, you know, their spouse. And the father or mother they chose children. Because it's convenient for everybody. It's convenient for everybody all the way around. And who is left holding the bag is the free agent.

SPEAKER_02 46:32

And I think we both felt that way during that time. Your thing was with my ex. And for me, honestly speaking, I didn't have that emotional safety then when we were at the very beginning. I didn't have the emotional safety because I knew it was a sore spot for you. So anytime that I talked to him, or anytime that he had to come around, it was like, ugh, oh goodness. But I knew it had to be done because I mean we had we have two kids together. Um, and then on the flip side for me was no, you didn't have any kids, but you still came with all of your emotional baggage, and so I didn't feel safe either because at any given moment you could run out and leave me to go and see to your parents, and that was a space that I knew that I was not welcome in. So only thing I had to fall back on was well, I got my two kids because all day, every day during that time, you were gonna choose the space that you felt comfortable and safe in. And that was I'm not out, I'm still closed up, I'm going to, you know, do what I need to do for my parents. So I think we both had our thing that we kind of yeah, you know, kind of held on to, you know, during that time. Thank God, you know, we have oh, it's been 15 years. We we evolved from that place, you know. Now the the girls are grown, they have their own relationship um with their dad, and uh crazy enough, you talk to him more than than I do. Um, so you know, it's it made a a full circle moment, but yeah, was it difficult then? Did we have to create moments to have that emotional safety? Probably me creating that moment was me being hush hush in another room talking to him on the phone because I knew if you heard any conversation with him, you would have to come pick up your clothes, I would have to come pick up my phone. So, you know, that that was the thing. It was me creating that space because you're not gonna like it, even if the conversation was, hey, uh, you know, this week the girls have, you know, they got this, this, this, and this. It was gonna make you feel away, yeah, because you always felt coming in, your mantra was, I never want to date anybody with kids because they have these soul ties and they still attack. You got mad one time when his niece called me and you know, wanted to talk, or I called her for her birthday or something. It was like, I remember that why are you calling his niece? And I'm like, What I wanted you to understand is that, and I think you do understand that now, is that especially being around my dad's side, because my dad is side of the family. As you can see, we don't let nobody go. Everybody is still family, but I think you had to see and understand that I met these people when I was 18 years old. God bless you, they became they became, you know, part of my family. And the girls are an extension of me, which means that I'm always going to be attached to them in some type of way.

SPEAKER_05 50:16

Literally, this is the same way you use the same word 15 years ago. Yes. And that one bedroom apartment to explain this.

SPEAKER_02 50:24

And I still to this day, I and that goes to show you that I still feel deeply about that. Yeah. Um, their grandmother could call me right now. If she needed me, I'm hopping on the road to Miami and I'm going to see about her. For years, this lady was like a mother to me. And just because things did not work out between her son and I, I just didn't throw her away. She's still Shemaya Tatiana's grandmother. She still played, you know, a huge role in my life. And I think it's hard when you don't have that connection, when you don't have the biological children, it's hard to understand that. But now in our safe space, I want you to understand that I would never ever disrespect, dishonor, um, anything in our relationship. I absolutely love you. Um, I absolutely love my children, and I'm going to always be a part of that family. But the great thing is, is that you're my family?

SPEAKER_05 51:39

You better bring that thing home now.

SPEAKER_02 51:43

You're my family, you're my family, you're my wife. And this is the crazy thing. My ex-mother-in-law, or whatever you want to call her, have you not been to her home? Has she not welcomed you into her home? Has she not treated you, you know, like a so that do you see the full circle moment here? Absolutely. Absolutely. The family that you were kind of like, oh my God, why are you talking to white? Now you can go to their home right there in Miramar and sit there, and they see you now as family, as an extension of me, as an extension of Shemai and Tatiana. They respect and love you for the simple fact that they know you are first, most importantly, they know that you play a huge role in their grandchildren's life.

SPEAKER_03 52:36

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 52:37

Forget about me. They love their grandchildren first. And so I feel like now we're all family. We all love you. So the very thing that you, you know, despised in the beginning, now you got all of us. That's it. That's all I have to say about that. Full circle moment. Full circle moment. We all love you.

Final Takeaways And Goodbye

SPEAKER_05 53:00

And you know what? We never talked about that. All this time, we just we had that conversation, babe. Don't cry. We had that conversation, we just never talked about that. You know, I'm a big cry, man. Don't cry, no, don't mess up your makeup. Listen, we move beyond that, and this is part of what makes us who we are. Um live, learn, and just try to impart all of that, you know, um, to our viewers, you know, because it's real. When the real gets real, it's life.