II Dope Chics's Podcast

Hard Truths About Love

• II Dope Chics • Season 2 • Episode 5

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A lot of us grew up believing love is automatic and unconditional, especially from the people who raised us. Then something happens that flips the switch, and suddenly the support is gone, the consistency is gone, and you’re left asking a brutal question: was that love, or was it approval with rules?

We get real about what it feels like when family love turns conditional after a major life decision, and how that kind of hurt leaks into the rest of your relationships. We talk about showing up as the clearest proof of love, why giving 100% and getting 20% back is a warning sign, and how “you’ve changed” often means someone is uncomfortable with your growth. We also dig into boundaries and self-preservation, the freedom that comes from telling the truth out loud, and the difference between love that’s spoken versus love that’s demonstrated.

From there, we zoom out into dating and partnership dynamics: love without effort turns into frustration, and love without consistency turns into confusion. We debate closure conversations, accountability, and why some people want the comfort of access without the responsibility of commitment. Finally, we talk healing, how peace can feel lonely before it feels right, and how growing up changes what you’re even attracted to. If any part of this hits home, subscribe, share this with someone who needs it, and leave a review so more people can find us.

Season Finale And Hard Truths

SPEAKER_03

All right. So hard truths about what we've learned about love. So all season, we've been talking about love. Love this, love that. Um now let's talk about the hard truths about it. I'm Shantae.

SPEAKER_04

And I'm middle.

When Unconditional Love Has Conditions

SPEAKER_03

And we're the two. Or maybe you should be asking me, I don't know. But what's one thing about love you feel like you've learned the hard way?

SPEAKER_04

Hmm. One thing I've learned the hard way. Well, um, you know how we were always taught growing up. Uh uh, I don't know if you were taught this, but I used to always hear, you know, how um your parents love you unconditionally, you know, that's unconditional. I know you better you know yourself. Yeah, all of that type of thing. And I think the reality is, is that uh people, people, you know, people, people, I remember first uh realizing that, you know, we idealize our parents. You idealize them, you know, they're like idol, is and I remember uh probably in my 30s just really realizing that, you know, they're people too. And uh because they're people too, is they're flawed. You know, we all have those things that are that we're trying to work on. Um, and I think that this season of my life, I'm really seeing um just really some of that just as it relates to the demonstration and being present and things like that, you know.

SPEAKER_03

Um realizing that the that unconditional love comes with conditions.

SPEAKER_04

Yeah, it's it's it's like you know, turning a light switch off and on, you know, you flip it up and there are lights, and then that switch can be turned off and you're in darkness. And I think that that that's just kind of you know the reality. I think that um you know, when certain when certain things are communicated, you know, in my life, yeah, you can being communicated, the fact that we were getting married, um it it changed a lot. I mean, things were changing anyway. Um when you don't do things that necessarily your your parents approve, uh there's a consequence for that.

SPEAKER_06

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04

And um, you know, I think that they're hurting. And, you know, certainly I think I'm hurting too, you know, because you I went from the light switch being on to off. Yeah. And so, you know, for me, it begs the question of was it unconditional or was it the love based upon me being in line with what you approved of? Um you know, I think that I I I I walk in an upright way. I try to make sure I do right by folks, and um I carry myself, I think, in a respectful way. But this one thing that has caused a major disruption.

SPEAKER_06

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04

Um where the lights are off.

SPEAKER_03

And it's crazy because when we talk about love, people always think it's it's just talking about love as far as being in a relationship. But you can talk about love in so many different aspects. Love can be in a relationship, love between you and your parents, love between you and your kids. Um, I mean, love and just a friendship. Yeah. Because love is a action about showing up for somebody when not only when things are good and everything is going great, but showing up when I need you the most, because life is always life in. And so I need you when life is life and I need you when I'm on the mountaintop, but I need you even more when I'm in the valley.

SPEAKER_04

Yeah. Yeah. Um, yeah. And I think also, yeah, I think I think also with that, you know, we one of the things that, you know, I kind of have these, I don't talk to myself, but have these conversations going on in my head because I'm I'm trying to figure stuff out. You know, I'm trying to sort through life. Yeah. Of um, yeah, I can't, you know, I can't talk to you all the time about every single thing that I'm thinking because I don't want to burden you, you know, with with with all of my stuff. But, you know, I think that that we are so um, you know, growing up and then becoming an adult and realizing even though I realize my parents have faults, you still love them.

SPEAKER_01

Absolutely.

SPEAKER_04

You still love them, you know, you love them nonetheless. I mean, we all flawed, we all have things that that are just we're trying to work through. Um, but it's very disappointing um when that same level of grace is not a two-way street. Yeah, it's not a two way street.

SPEAKER_03

Have you ever experienced love where it disappointed you or it didn't meet your level of expectations? And it sounds like that's kind of where you are right now, but also that love, when it's messed up in one area of your life, it kind of affects the other some type of way. And when I say not, may not be in a bad way, a negative way, sometimes when you're pushed away from someone, it pulls you even closer to someone else. Because now this other person or this other family or whatever is giving you what you need, loving you in the way that you need to be loved. They're loving you through mistakes, they're loving you through, you know, the good times, the bad times. I'm here for you, I'm supporting you, I'm standing right beside you. I I got you.

SPEAKER_04

Yeah, yeah. And I I don't think necessarily that, you know, it it forced me to run like to you. I think that it allowed me to appreciate the level of committedness, um, whether I'm having a bad day or I did something that you necessarily didn't like or care for, uh, but you chose to remain present and committed and say, you know, we're gonna work through it.

SPEAKER_06

Yeah.

Reciprocity And New Nonnegotiables

SPEAKER_04

So um yeah, that's that's that's really kind of my current life. Like, yeah.

SPEAKER_03

What do you think you tolerate? Well, let me ask it this way. What do you think you've kind of like tolerated in the past that you feel like now, since since you've grown a little bit more, you have a little more knowledge, uh, you have a certain level of expectations, you wouldn't tolerate it anymore when it comes to love. Because we we're trying to help somebody, somebody out there is tolerating foolishness.

SPEAKER_04

Yeah, yeah. I think I think being all in. I think being all in and consistently showing up. Um, because I think that those are all manifestations of love.

SPEAKER_06

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04

So if you if if if I'm giving 100 and I'm only getting back a good 20, yeah, it's a problem. It's a red flag, red flag, red flag, you know, is you know, the things in my life I've been through, and it's like when it hits that little tinge of it, it's kind of like um pouring salt and an open wound, if it just even gets close, it's like reaction.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04

And so because I'm raw, when it relates to particularly that, you know, if you if if if in my friendships, um in my, you know, business relationships, if I'm showing up at 100 and I'm feeling like the other person is only showing up at 20, at this state of my life, is like cut them off.

SPEAKER_03

It's okay.

SPEAKER_04

Yeah. I wish you well, but it doesn't work for me. Yeah.

Wedding Pain And "You've Changed"

SPEAKER_03

And that's definitely um something that I noticed um, even the last, I would say, six months um of our life, because the last year of our life has been very, very busy. It's been a lot going on. And I noticed um, even going back, and I'm talking about love here, even going back to, I remember when we were uh uh wedding planning, still wedding planning, and we had a little situation with people that we thought just, you know, loved us and went through that situation. And when I hear somebody say, Oh, you've changed. Yeah, red flag, red flag. That's a red flag for me. Yeah, because what do you mean I've changed? Yeah, I don't want to be around anybody that if I knew you and you were 15, 20, 25, and now we're 45 and you still behaving or acting the way you did from 20 years ago. I mean, we all should change at some point. We all should evolve. But I know when I hear a person say, Oh, you've changed, you're different now, that's that person saying, I don't like what I'm seeing. And I say that to say they're saying, I don't like what I'm seeing, because at some point they feel as though you have evolved past them. You're doing more than what they're doing. You're doing too much, is what you know we'll often hear. And it's like, if you love me, wouldn't you be clapping for me, cheering me on instead of doing a time and and you know the the situation that I'm speaking of when we were wedding planning? This was somebody that went way back to like 19 yeah, 94, 95, very disappointing um for you to say, oh, you know, you've changed and you come up with a whole scenario, a whole situation for you not to be supportive in this moment. And you really don't even know why you don't want to be supportive. Like why?

SPEAKER_04

You know, but but in that in that moment, I was it was hurtful uh because I was already, you know, in a a very kind of a lonely place of of not having you know key folks around me where I felt like, you know, this monumental time in my life. This is this is one of the chapters, you know, this is one of those moments where it's just like, you know, and it was something that was very hurtful. But even within that pain of it, I was just like, you know what, it's great that I know now and don't look back.

SPEAKER_03

Don't look back, don't make an excuse for it, um, and don't look back. And the people that were around it, yeah, that clapped forward and accepted the behavior and thought that the behavior was okay. Eyes wide open. Eyes wide open, eyes wide open, you out of the way too. Yeah. Because now I see you were okay as long as you felt like I was down here, or you were okay when you felt like I was here and you were right here with me. Now the issue is you feel as though you're here and now I'm here. So now you've changed. You you're not the person, but you've loved me all this time. Yeah, all this time you so-called was ten toes down for me. So yeah, it love can be very um hurtful, very disappointing. Um, although it can be very rewarding at times, you have to like say, man, those those times are coming where it's not gonna be, it's not gonna feel good.

SPEAKER_04

Yeah. I mean, you know, it's high, highs or low, lows, but you know, it's is I think it's part of growing and maturing and recognizing it for what is and recognizing also what isn't.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah. And so now that, you know, we have grown up a little bit, we got a little uh paprika on us, life on us, a little life on us, a little seasoning. Uh, it's just some things I'm just not willing to to tolerate um anymore.

SPEAKER_04

Well, yeah, you know, I I I've always believed in self-preservation, you know, is at the end of the day, I've got to um make sure that I'm okay. And with that, and you know, again, particularly in this season, being okay is, yeah, it's it's it's the physical, but it's the emotional, it's the mental, and being very protective of that, yeah, of of making sure that you know I'm very territorial about that space and so that I can maintain my peace in a good mental space.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04

Of be, you know, because that's all you have.

Boundaries And Self Preservation

SPEAKER_03

Yeah. I think for me, it was unlearning some of the things that I used to do. Yeah. And so for me, I always made excuses for certain behavior. Like, oh, that's okay. That's just how they are. They've been that way since, you know, I've known them. Oh, that's all right. This person, you know, they they were the only child, so they can't help but to be selfish, selfish and not, you know, reciprocate what I'm giving to them.

SPEAKER_04

Or that was the baby. And, you know, they've been, you know, taken care of all of their life by siblings and and family members and parents. So, you know, now the only thing they know is being taken care of.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah, you know, or that was the oldest. And, you know, they're the way they are because of everything you just said, the total opposite. Uh, they're that way because they they may didn't get a lot of attention, they weren't loved enough, they, you know, were still growing with the parent.

SPEAKER_07

Right.

SPEAKER_03

I just think we gotta get out of giving people a way out, giving people excuses. We got to call this behavior out.

SPEAKER_04

Yeah. And say it doesn't work for me.

SPEAKER_03

It does not work for me.

SPEAKER_04

And uh, I know that I have had, and these this is like the past several years, difficulty with really setting boundaries. Oh, of you know, just again because of how I was raised, of um, you know, they say jump, you it's high. How high, you know, but saying that really realizing now that that's not that's not good. You got to set the boundary of what you will tolerate and what's just not acceptable for me.

SPEAKER_06

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04

And after I articulate that and you continue to do it, then I got a decision to make. Yeah, I got a decision to make. Yeah. Yeah. Because um, you wouldn't let me disrespect who you're with, right? Who you've chosen to be. That's that, I mean, that would be a no-go.

SPEAKER_06

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04

So yeah. Tough lessons. Tough lessons.

SPEAKER_03

Oh, hard lessons, hard lessons about love. And we always say experience will have to be our best teacher. Yeah. And I'm like, but do I have to experience everything? Like every single thing. Can I just learn from watching somebody else go through it? Not that I want to see anybody go through anything, um, traumatized or anything like that, but man.

SPEAKER_04

And you know, for me, it's even, it's even honestly, for me to just sit on this platform and talk about it is deep because I've I've always I was raised as very private of not exposing um things that would make the unit or the family look bad. Um, but I think that I goes on in this house.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04

And that's how a lot of us were raised.

SPEAKER_03

Absolutely.

SPEAKER_04

But there's freedom in talking about the experience. Um, there's freedom also in being able to share how I'm working through it because I don't even think, I can't even say I worked through it because that's like past.

SPEAKER_06

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04

Literally every day, working through it. I'm working through it. Literally every day I think about this stuff, you know. Uh, and so it's a work in progress of just trying to work through some of those things as it relates to, you know, love not quite really being unconditional.

Consistency Lost Then Confusion Starts

SPEAKER_03

Yeah. But it's hard. If if you grew up and even in into adulthood, you had all this love and all this support, and then bam, just one day it's taken away. It's like love, love shouldn't be confusing. And so now it's like that's one of the hard truths is confusion and love shouldn't exist in the same arena.

SPEAKER_04

Because I don't I don't even think it's confusing.

SPEAKER_03

I think it's I think it's confusing because guess what? Now the consistency is gone. So love without consistency equals confusion. The consistency of what they were doing initially, and now I've just snatched it away because now you don't meet the conditions of my unconditional love. Right now, yeah, that's confusing.

SPEAKER_04

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03

To me.

SPEAKER_04

That's how I Well, it's it's it's like one of the things where the bar just keeps moving.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04

You know, and it's just like, okay, I I just don't even know where the line is here because this thing just keeps, yeah, it keeps moving out. And I see you do this, but then you expect me to do this, and you know, I I just don't, hey, you make up the rules.

SPEAKER_03

Well, it's it's just like love. Um I don't know. I just think you know, love requires a lot of effort, as we've we've stated before. And so love without effort is frustration. So now you're not putting forth any effort. You want all the effort to come from my end, but even when I put forth effort, now you talk about something now, it's it's a problem. So yeah, so now I'm frustrated. Yeah, I'm frustrated the fact that I don't know what to do. Because I put forth effort on my end. I'm giving you everything that I know how to give you, and it's you won't give anything back. Right. So now I'm I'm frustrated. Now I'm confused, right? And I'm frustrated. Right.

SPEAKER_04

Yeah. That's real. Yeah. That's that's that's my reality. And you know, I will always say for my family, I can only speak of my family, my experience, because my parents were great parents. Yeah, great parents. Um great parents always supportive their sacrifice. Um but this one thing changed everything. And that has been remarkable for me. Remarkable.

SPEAKER_03

And I'm not trying to um I guess say that your parents aren't great parents. I guess my question is. What continues to make them great parents if you're saying oh they love but they snatched it away? Well they they support it, but I no longer get support.

Sponsor Message

Silence From Parents And Public Praise

SPEAKER_04

Yeah, as far as as far as that level of sacrifice, I mean, you know, growing up and and you know I didn't have my reality was not a reality of, you know I'm playing basketball and it's it's it's it's you know a high school game and they're not there, or I'm in the band and they're not in the stands, or I'm in college and say I'm thirsty, I need to go to the publics, and the next thing I know, they show up, you know, with a 24 back pack of of water. You know, that's that's they've they what that's what I mean when I say that they've always been incredibly supportive. It's just it's it just I mean the lights got cut off. No one ever expects to be in a car accident, but when it happens, you need someone who stands on business. I'm Millicent Daniels, and this is my city. I fight for my people. I am your attorney. Scan below, save the number, and if ever in need, call. I mean, it's just it, you know, they have they're in their 70s. There's I am going to get a call one day that is done. And for them, I say, was it worth it? Was it worth it? Because I have tried to be the example, and I'll call. Do I get a call back?

SPEAKER_01

I mean, they'll get on the phone, of course they'll pick up chit chat, the rain, the mist, MSNBC, politics, Trump, Trump, and after about four minutes, it's done.

SPEAKER_04

Will I ever get a call or a text just to see how I'm doing? How can you drive the interstates of the city of Jacksonville? See me. How can you watch local news? See me.

SPEAKER_01

How could how do you address people who say I talked to your daughter, I saw your daughter, your daughter's doing amazing.

SPEAKER_04

What do you say? Because you don't know how your daughter's doing. Because you just won't call or cat. I mean, I remember it hurt my feelings. It's like a couple years ago. Uh, this had to be probably 20, what is this? This 26, it was 25, 24. Went over there and my mom was like, no, I didn't go over there. She was said, it was a call on a Sunday. I called her a Sunday.

SPEAKER_01

Oh, we we just got home from church. We're changing clothes to go to so-and-so's uh son's uh graduation party because you just got to remember that.

SPEAKER_04

I was like, so you do go places, it is amazing to me how you can support a person you don't even know. See, my mom is like passive aggressive, she will say things like because um such and such, it brings shame on the family, and then when I confront it and say, You believe that I am bringing shame to the family? What do you mean? I mean, where who who who out there in our family, like like our family is really, you know, but even so, who is making you feel like you really what she's saying is you are changing.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah, that's what she's saying. You're bringing shame to me.

SPEAKER_04

As I have said, as I have said to her, it is amazing to me that you will sit in this prison jail cell that you have created. And the people on the outside are saying, and you know it, they're saying, Wow, look at what she's doing for the community.

SPEAKER_01

I've had people say, I wish I had a daughter like you.

SPEAKER_03

Even while we've been doing this podcast, we had a lady, what 70, 77, 76, 75 years old. She reached up, reached out to us via um YouTube, actually. Uh, she left a comment on YouTube and then she went, found us on social media and sent the long message on Messenger saying, you know, um, watch one of your podcasts. I'm 75, 76 years old. Um, I just want you to know that you are a blessing to my life. Yes, you are a blessing to my life, and I would love, I would love for you to be my daughter.

SPEAKER_04

And she said, I would have come to your wedding.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04

And I'm like, you know, today. But do you know? But do you know how I get a message on Messenger today? Wait a second, let me just because I don't even have no reason to lie. From a stranger. No, no, no. This is a lady that I I know, you know, if she walked up to me, I wouldn't know her. But, you know, social media, a lady messages me, and this was a segment, the segment uh yesterday on News for Dex Live, 815. She sends me a message with a screenshot of it. She said, Millicent, I love what you are doing. The exposures needed, keep up the great work. And then she says, My family and I are so proud of you. Oh. Will I ever hear that?

What I Want My Parents To Hear

SPEAKER_03

Because you know what? You little do you know, you are representation for African-American girls, women, all across the city, and I do believe in beyond. You don't know how you're reaching and how you're touching people. Like your life is a testament of bravery now because these people are watching you, they see themselves in you. You're making little girls say, Man, when I grow up, I want to be a lawyer just like her. You you have women that are saying, now that I'm grown up, I want to be, you know, like her. So I never want you to think that you're not making a difference because, and I get it, your parents is like, if I'm not accepted by my parents, who am I going to be accepted by? But this may just be part of your testimony to help other people. If you felt right now they were watching, let's just say hypothetically, they're watching right now. What would you say to them right now? Because we've been talking about love. We've been talking about how we feel love should be. And I know we've hit it from a relationship standpoint, but this is one of the most vital, most important um relationships in your life. What would you say to them right now? Right now.

SPEAKER_04

I would say life is very short. It's fleeting. It's fleeting. And within it, um, I still love them. Warts and all. I know they're not perfect. I don't hopefully they don't expect me to be perfect.

SPEAKER_06

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04

Um I appreciate everything that they've done for me because I know they didn't have to. I know they didn't have to. Certainly, I think had they have known that all these years later, that I would be in a relationship with a woman, married to a woman. Uh I'm very confident that those things would not have been done. And those were things, you know, uh going off to college, you know, had a car, law school graduation, uh, they brought me a little baby bin. And and and and just just being being there and present. But I would hate for them to close their eyes or me to close mine. Because we living in a day that that that the the children are passing away before their parents. I would hate for something to happen to either one of us, and there be this silence. Because that silence is eternal. There is no going back, there is no opportunity to pick up the phone, it's done. And to me, it's not worth it. And I've tried, I've tried, I have modeled the behavior, I've read the book, I've talked to the concept, I prayed, I fasted, I've modeled, I gave, but I can only do what I can do, and I have no reason to put on about it, you know? It's like it's like somebody trying to you keep trying. And then at some point, it's like if I'm calling, and I remember saying this one time, I'm like, you know, hey, the phone calls can be a two-way street, you know, is um because I'm giving an invitation, you know.

SPEAKER_01

I'm I'm not hard to talk to, I really am not.

SPEAKER_04

Um my dad and I have a great, I mean, we joke, we he and I have like a similar personality. I I'm I'm I am the ultimate combination child because I have a lot of my mom and I have a lot of my dad, but even if you do not agree with my relationship, I think that love still shows up. And when love doesn't show up and the lights are cut off, it's just not love. I mean it's it's really white and black for me. It's white and black. So I just try to do better, you know, because everybody has choices. I would never want for Todd and Maya for them to make a choice where I'm like, I just can't even do you. I can't even do that. Because because because I that that is an incredibly isolating feeling, and it it affects, it affects kind of how I show up, so to speak. Yeah, you know, because in the back of my head, I'm like, when you have that switch cut off, and you got thirty something, forty-something years of programming, that tells me that that was a lie.

SPEAKER_02

And if the first thing when people say I love you, and all of this is going on in the background, do you think people are saying I love you because they really love you?

SPEAKER_03

Or do you think they're saying, I love you because it's what you're supposed to say? Or let's just say, let's take it away from family or your parents. Let's just say this was somebody in a relationship and we know what's happening behind the scenes. We know what's going on. We know this person feels lonely or isolated or, you know, not supported, but yet the person that they're with constantly saying, I love you, I love you, I love you. Is that person saying, I love you because it's what you're supposed to say? Or are they saying, I love you, like to keep from, I don't know, to keep you from leaving?

SPEAKER_04

I mean, you know, uh people say I love you for all kinds of different reasons. True. I mean, it can be I love you to keep control over you, you know. And and it's their idea of love, you know.

SPEAKER_03

Everybody has their own idea of what love is, of what it is, you know, and what it looks like.

SPEAKER_04

Right, right, right. So, you know, you hear it and it's just, I mean, it's it's something that is often misused. Um, so you know, just really trying to gauge, okay, well, what angle are you coming me at of?

SPEAKER_03

Because guess what? I may love you when we laughing, joking, smiling, traveling.

SPEAKER_04

Or as long as I'm doing what you want me to do.

SPEAKER_03

But then, you know, do I still have that same love for you? Do I still have that same love for you when we're sitting at home eating honey nut Cheerios? Um, there's nowhere to go, nothing for us to do, no money in the bank account, uh, I'm not driving a fancy car, is it that easy to still say, but I love you?

SPEAKER_04

And that's the question of our. I mean, that's the question of our is, I mean, I would argue that if you don't love me with the same intensity, whether we on top of the mountain or whether we down deep in the valley, that's not love. You know, and that's the reality of the situation. That's the reality of things of you know, of we're the bar just the bar just vacillates, it moves. Yeah, you know.

SPEAKER_03

Um and I just feel like this. If I have to question your love, it's not easy. I'm already experiencing the absence of it. Uh-huh. Already. Uh-huh. Like the love is gone. So I just feel as though the love is.

SPEAKER_04

And and and let me just say this. And this is kind of to your point of it, really allows, at least my experience has taught me also to try to show up in a better way. Of taking the examples and non-examples and really just trying to do my best to show up in a better way of even when decisions are made that I may not necessarily agree with, I say, you know what? It's gotta learn. It's okay. I'm still gonna be here to support you. Like what? What decisions are you? I mean, even with like with kids, with uh, with with kids, with with friends, of I still love you. I'm not I'm not running, you know. I'm still here to support you because I know how it feels. Of I don't know how you can walk around every day and and not wonder how a person that you care about is doing and not pick up the phone. You know, I just there's too much happening in the world in the world right now.

SPEAKER_03

Um, even in the city, yeah. I mean, every day I I watch the news and there's five, six, seven car accidents, or somebody was shot at this place or that place. Yeah. So it would make you want to pick up the phone and check on your loved ones.

Closure Talks And Accountability Gaps

SPEAKER_04

Right, right. So I just try to show up in a better way. And um, you know. We'll see in the great by and by.

SPEAKER_03

In the great by and by, well, do you feel like um in a relationship or with family or with friends? Or I know for me, I'm big on uh that closure. And so I know a lot of people may say, well, the person's behavior should have been closure enough when you walked away. Um, for me, I have to have like that.

SPEAKER_04

I know you like a closing conversation.

SPEAKER_03

I I need to have that closing conversation because I need for you to understand why we can't be friends anymore or why we're not gonna be in this relationship anymore. I think there should be some type of closure conversation. I know a lot of people be like, I can just walk away and I don't have to say anything. Um, I guess for me, the closure conversation is needed. And once I have that closure conversation, I don't ever have to spin the block, as they say. I don't ever have to come back. Do you think the the closure conversation is is is needed?

SPEAKER_04

No, I know for you, you really need it. You know, uh you you really need to get it out to let the person know where you stand. I do, you know, and uh so when you have okay, so when you have these closing conversations, and I'll drink to that. What do you have an expectation of them saying, you know what, I did mess up. You know what, I was selfish, you know what, I didn't show up at the same level that you showed up. You know what, I did do you wrong.

SPEAKER_03

Um, I don't think I expect my level of expectation. Well, number one, I I don't anymore expect a me out of anybody, out of anybody. What I may do, I no longer can expect that from somebody else. If someone is having a closure conversation with me, I would say, you know what, I messed up. I did. Even in my previous relationship, I've always said, and I even told you, I said, it takes two people for a relationship to go left. Now we can be naive if we want, in denial if we want, and say, Oh, I didn't do anything wrong. That was all that person. Yeah, that was all you lying. I agree with that. Stop lying. Yeah, I agree with that. Stop lying. This is in my um my voice from Dr. Laboris. Stop lying. You did something. Everybody ain't broke. Everybody ain't broke. Everybody did something. I love it. But all I'm saying is that everybody in a relationship plays their part. And so I look back on myself 20 years ago and say, you know what? I wasn't mature, I wasn't, you know, thinking how I'm thinking today. Um, I some of the decisions that I made back then, I think about some of those decisions now. I'd be like, I wouldn't have, you know, necessarily done that. So, yes, I do have to take 50% of the responsibility for the demise of that relationship.

SPEAKER_10

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03

Um, and I think that's part of love is giving people. Grace. Um, understanding that we all are human, understanding that we all make mistakes. Um, so yeah, in that closure conversation, I would say, you know what, I shouldn't have done that. Um now I'm a big enough person to say, I apologize. I am I'm sorry that I didn't show up for you. Um I'm sorry that I didn't, you know, say the things that you needed to hear. I'm sorry that I didn't support you.

SPEAKER_04

Listen, that's a big person to actually admit that because it has been my experience that people will never be accountable for the things that they have done uh that cause that's hello.

SPEAKER_03

I had to laugh at that. No, you didn't.

SPEAKER_04

The things that they have done.

SPEAKER_03

What you mad about?

SPEAKER_04

The things that they've done that cause pain, you know, is they're gonna they're gonna all day go down with no, it was you. It was you, it was you. So that's why I don't even need a closing conversation. I don't even need it because I have to get that closure within myself.

SPEAKER_03

I still think it's needed.

SPEAKER_04

Uh uh. My my experience has been nobody ever admitted it all.

SPEAKER_03

Well, I guess that's back to me being like uh overly community, I guess. Just just that need to communicate. Yeah. Because I need to, I need for you to understand how I feel. So when you do see me, and and I'm gonna be perfectly honest, even in this very moment right now, I'm sitting here thinking about there are at least two closure conversations that I need to have with with two individuals. I mean, it's it's I know that the chapter has come to an end, um, but I need that person to know why the book is now closed. And that's just that I guess that's just part of my makeup, part of my personality. Yeah.

Love, Convenience, Labels, And Access

SPEAKER_04

Yeah. I've you know, I've just always had to kind of figure it out on my own and um you know, deal with it and just keep it moving. It's just move differently the next time and not have not necessarily have those same expectations of um when you have such a personal disappointment is within that. I mean that thing is so shaking, yeah, that the other stuff, and it just is what it is.

SPEAKER_03

Do you what do you feel about love? Love and convenience. Do you feel like love is always inconvenient?

SPEAKER_04

Oh geez. If I'm asleep and you're sick, I'm gonna wake up out of my sleep and tend to you.

SPEAKER_06

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04

You know, if I if if you're hurting, if if I'm hurting, it's it's always some level of sacrifice, uh, of inconvenience. Um, and that's I think that's part of it.

SPEAKER_03

Well, also I was thinking in terms of sometimes when people think of love and convenience, sometimes I feel like people can love you or say that they love you out of convenience because in that it's something that they want, it's something that they need.

SPEAKER_04

Oh, they just want to feel alive, it's something that they desire.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah. So I don't know. And I I really do think it's a lot of that that occurs sometimes, even with sometimes with being with somebody for a long period of time. You may love them, but you're not in love with them, but you still love them for convenience.

SPEAKER_04

Yeah, that's the nature of people, and you only know, and you only can can really decipher their true intentions by where they're gonna show up in the moments where you really need them, and it's not it's not ideal for them.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah. That's like when I hear people, uh, I've asked certain people sometimes, uh, you in a relationship with that person? Nah, we're just we're just cool. We're just friends. Or sometimes people say, Oh, I don't like labels. I don't do labels. And so how am I supposed to take that if I were out there before Millicent? Um, how would I suppose to be the dating pool is rough right now? Let me just say that. I'm glad that I don't have to be out there. I'm glad that I found my special one because uh people are different. People are very different right now. So if you have that special someone, if you if you know that you know that you know that that person is for you, hang on to that person um tight because the grass is not always greener. I've always been told the grass is greener where you water it. So don't go chasing waterfalls. I like that. And we're not chili fans over here right now. We waiting on how to get it together, but don't go chasing waterfalls, just stick to the rivers and the lakes that you used to. Because when you chase waterfalls, people out here that don't want labels, they don't want accountability. That's what it signals to me. You're right. When you say, Oh, that's just my friend, oh, we're cool. Oh, we may be good tomorrow, but not today. You don't want accountability, you don't want to be tied or linked to anybody. So when you go out there and do whatever it is you're gonna do, guess what the response is?

SPEAKER_07

Yeah, yeah, you're right.

SPEAKER_03

We're not together anyway. Yeah, we're not cool. We I mean, we cool, but we we all right. It's not like that. It's not like that. Well, how is it then? What is it? It's something. I love it, yeah. So I mean, to me, when people do that, they don't want a relationship, they want access, and that access can be to anything, they may just want access to you. It could be I want access to your heart because that makes me feel good and nobody else has access to it. It's not always um monetary with people, sometimes it's the very things that money cannot buy that people desire to have. And that stuff right there, that's when it goes deep. Right because now you're starting to play with things that are near and dear to me.

SPEAKER_04

So guard your heart.

SPEAKER_03

Guard your heart. Because you only get one heart. Something happened to this one. I don't know. But I mean, I know love has been like the thing um all season, and it's it's crazy to know now that we've come to the last episode in in this particular season, and I have enjoyed talking about talking about love because it rules everything. Yeah, the way you move, the way you treat people, the way everything about love is about to me the way the world just operates. So love is always going to be love. Love has to be intentional, uh, love has to be unconditional, unconditional love. And so I pray that one day that you get to the point, uh, even in your situation, um, with your parents, they are your parents, you love them dearly. But I do believe that one day, and I pray that it's one day soon, that that love that you're searching for, looking for, and that you need is given to you tenfold because you definitely deserve that and so much more. So keep your head up.

SPEAKER_04

In Jesus' name, amen.

Healing Changes What Feels Attractive

SPEAKER_03

In Jesus' name. Anyway, you know, I I I speak that over you seriously because I know you do. I know you do. Um, you know, you I love you, and so you never want to see your loved one in pain and hurting. Yeah. And it hurts me even more to know that it's something that I can't control, it's something that I can't do anything about. I'm accustomed to being able to fix things. Um, but you know, hey, I can't Olivia Pope this one. I wish I could.

SPEAKER_04

Um we'll understand it better by and by.

SPEAKER_03

But we'll understand it better by and by. What a moment. And I and one of the other hard truths that I've learned um about about love is that the more that I've healed um over the years, it changed BM before Millicent. It changed who and what I was attracted to. And so some of the things that I thought that I wanted and that I was attracted to and that I needed through healing and finding myself, I realized I don't need that. That's growth. That's growth. That that was so much growth to me. Now, is there still room? Yep, there is still room.

SPEAKER_06

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03

There's still a lot of room, but I'm so glad and just so grateful that I can see it. It's it's noticeable. So that tells me that the growth has been tremendous.

SPEAKER_07

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03

Um, you know, I know people that thrive in relationships that are chaotic. That's they need that constant.

SPEAKER_04

And that's probably, but that was probably their circumstance, you know, growing up. Absolutely. Yeah. So they drive in it.

SPEAKER_03

Toxic feels good when you're not healed. It actually's the only thing you know. That's the only thing you know. So it feels normal. Yeah. So that that was one of the hard truths of going into this particular episode. I was like, wow, like I have really healed more than I give myself credit for. And that some of the things that I thought I needed, I don't need them anymore. And so the talk being toxic and all of that, that's, you know, I never needed, never needed that at all. But definitely I see it now, I can spot it, and it's like red flag, red flag, red flag. Let me run the other way. I don't even want to be right around it.

SPEAKER_07

Right.

SPEAKER_03

I don't need it in my personal life, professional life. Take that toxic energy. Protecting your peace. Somewhere else, I gotta protect my peace. Because peace at first, um peace at first, I can honestly say for me, it felt lonely. Does that sound crazy? Wow. Yeah. And when I say peace felt lonely, is because there was a time even with my family. And I know you've been talking about um your family, but I I went through a time even with my family where I had to just separate myself for peace's sake. I wanted to be at peace. But during that time that I separated myself because I wanted peace, it was lonely out there on that island. Like I rem you probably remember this. I remember when I would look at Facebook and I would see pictures of all of them together, like going on vacation.

SPEAKER_07

I remember this, yeah.

SPEAKER_03

Um doing stuff. And I would see it and I'd be like, man, like I chose peace. I ran away from the toxic behaviors and the, you know, going behind this person back and talking about them, or going behind this person back in line, the constant arguments, the constant battles.

SPEAKER_04

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03

I ran away from all that to be at peace, but yet I was the one that felt lonely.

SPEAKER_04

Yeah, it's like you were punished.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah. And so, yeah, peace for a minute felt lonely. Um, but then when I realized that, man, I am at peace. I forgot about the being lonely part and took more of the peace in and realized that love can be peaceful. Did you hear that? Yeah, like the song says, peace, be still. Yeah. So yeah. But growth can um I've learned also that growth can make old things look unattractive. I mean, and I'm not just talking about unattractive as in appearance, I'm talking about unattractive as in some of the habits and some of the ways, things that you thought you were attracted to. It's like now you're looking like I was attracted to doing that. Yeah, I was attracted to to that. Like, I don't want that.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, maturity. I I don't I don't need that. Yeah, maturity, maturity. Yeah.

Dope Or Nope Relationship Decisions

SPEAKER_03

I mean, and as a woman, yeah, evolution. Yeah, and as a woman, you want to feel like, oh, you know, I'm beautiful, everybody loves me. You know, when I go out, I'm stunning, everybody is looking at me. So there was a time in my life where I felt like I'm I'm only attractive if I go out and five, six, seven different dudes or females try try to holler at me. And so now it's like I'm not attracted to that anymore. Like, who cares? I know that how I feel about me. I know that I love me, I know that I feel um attractive in so many ways, and not just in my looks, but you know, in my intelligence, everything. Um, so that's that's the hard truth, even by loving yourself. Oh, yeah. Loving and growing with yourself. So I've come a long way, I think. You have come a long way. Yeah, you have come a long way. So, yeah, what used to excite me, you know. Well, I put it like this I've learned that what used to excite me was some of the things that was breaking me. That's good. And I don't want to be broken. Right, right. You've come too far. I've come too far. Because everybody ain't broke or broke in. Are you ready for dope or nope? I'm ready for dope or nope. Dope or nope, cutting someone off the moment they show inconsistency with no explanation.

SPEAKER_04

Dope or nope the moment they show inconsistency, I think you gotta have a little bit of a conversation. But if it becomes repeated behavior, cut them off. Dope.

SPEAKER_03

I say dope as well. Um, again, we're getting too old for the you one way today, another way tomorrow. You if you can't just be consistent, there's something going on, and eventually I'm not gonna be able to change your inconsistencies because that's who you are or who you've chosen to be. So moving on. Correct. Dope or nope, doubling back, you spinning the block to someone who didn't choose you the first time.

SPEAKER_04

I would say nope.

SPEAKER_03

I would say nope as well.

SPEAKER_04

Nope.

SPEAKER_03

Why come back and give you a second chance? Yeah. When you how you get on is how you ride. How you get on is how you ride, baby. Dope or nope, snoop it through your partner's phone if your intuition feels off. Dope or nope.

SPEAKER_04

If you feel that way, nope, do it. If you feel if you feel you gotta do it, do it. Okay, but that may be a good indication that that's not a good relationship for you.

SPEAKER_03

Correct. Yeah, correct. So I totally agree with you. Dope or nope, keeping someone around just because they treat you better than your ex.

SPEAKER_04

Nope. Nope. That's a disservice to you and them, right?

SPEAKER_03

And and where's the measuring stick? Right. Just because you treat me better than my ex, I mean, who's to say how well that is? McDonald's a Burger King. My treat. Dope or nope, talking to multiple people because nobody is exclusive yet. Dope. I say dope. Yeah, you gotta do your thing, you gotta, you know, feel everybody out a little bit, you know. Dope or nope, leaving a relationship, even though there's no cheating or abuse, you just know that there's no peace there. Dope. Dope. Yes. Block dope or nope. Blocking someone to heal, even if they didn't do anything crazy.

SPEAKER_04

Blocking someone to heal, even if they didn't do it.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah, you're blocking that person. You don't want to talk to them. You're blocking them from calling you, you're blocking them from getting in contact with you because you need time to heal. That person, that person didn't do anything crazy or anything.

SPEAKER_04

You just that's self-preservation.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah, you need to preserve you. Dope. Yeah, I say dope as well. Dope or nope, giving closure. Closing conversation, giving closure to someone that hurts you.

SPEAKER_04

If you need it, do it. Yeah, if you don't, don't. Because I feel like whatever it is you need, besides setting it.

SPEAKER_03

Because it may be something I need, it may not necessarily be for that person. Just like we say, forgiveness is not for them, it's for you. Closure is the same way for me.

SPEAKER_04

Yeah, if you need it, do it. Yeah, there's no harm in it.

SPEAKER_03

Dope a note, testing someone to see if they really care.

SPEAKER_04

Do it. I mean, if you feel like you need to do it, test them, test them. Test them.

SPEAKER_03

See, I don't have time for all that. I don't feel like I got to test you. We we're not about to do that.

SPEAKER_04

But isn't but but isn't isn't the act of the act of dating to me is a test. You know, it is some degree of Okay, so test them how of like of like performance. So are you going to be there if I'm crying at night? Are you gonna be there? Are you are you one of these people who break up when it comes down to close to Valentine's Day? You know, it's it's just yeah.

SPEAKER_03

In my mind, I'm feeling like if I have to test you, I'm already having some type of but you are testing.

SPEAKER_04

You're just you're not conscious of the testing. You are testing the things that you do, the things that you say, your expectations, it is some degree of testing. You just don't want to call it a test.

SPEAKER_07

Okay.

SPEAKER_03

New question dope or nope, walking away from potential because you're tired of waiting.

SPEAKER_04

Walking away from potential because you're tired of waiting.

SPEAKER_03

You're tired of waiting on this potential to do whatever it is.

SPEAKER_04

Don't fall in love with somebody's potential. So don't walk. Yeah, don't.

SPEAKER_03

I don't know why when I when I saw walking away from uh potential, I want to say, you know, just walk away from their potential mate. You know, like Trick Daddy made up his word. Trick Daddy said, You're not gonna what? Defamate my character. So at some point, we just got to stop asking, you know, people, do you love me? Uh, and we just gotta start asking them, are you loving me correctly? Are you loving me the right way?

SPEAKER_04

Now that that's asking, that's read what they're doing. Their behavior is gonna tell me. Yeah, show, show me. Yeah, you don't have to tell me you love me. You gotta show me.

SPEAKER_03

Well, I'm gonna continue to show you.

SPEAKER_04

Thank you, baby.

Season Closing And Final Blessing

SPEAKER_03

It's been a great season. I can't wait to come back. We can't wait to come back to you all. It's been a lot of fun. We hope that you feel from this season of the Two Dope Chicks Podcast. It was all about love. We'll see you next season, and we don't know what it's gonna be about yet, but just know it's gonna be dope.

unknown

Bye.

SPEAKER_03

Stay dope.