When Strong Men Break

Watching someone look successful from the outside while they’re falling apart on the inside hits different, and that’s why we invited DJ Swag back for a part two. The messages and comments after our last conversation were loud, but what stayed with us was the quiet part: how much pain can sit under a public persona, especially for men who’ve been taught that emotions equal weakness.

We get honest about men’s mental health, grief that gets buried until it explodes, and the kind of regret that replays when you hit a certain age and start seeing your past in a new light. DJ Swag shares how “keep going” helped him survive, but also how it can delay healing when you never deal with what hurt you. We talk about the confidence damage that can come from a career setback like a radio layoff, and how that weight spills into relationships, emotional safety, and the way you see love.

We also debate a real hot topic: therapy vs friends. We push back on performative “I did the work” talk, dig into why counseling sometimes fails, and why it can still be a powerful tool when you show up honest and willing. DJ Swag breaks down what actually recharges him day to day: the gym, running, motivational content for men, gospel music, prayer, and even sitting in the car as his sanctuary. We close with something we all need to hear: check on your strong friends, because they’re often carrying the most.

If this conversation helps you feel less alone, subscribe, share it with someone who needs it, and leave us a review so more people can find the show.

Transcript

Social Media Therapy Claims

SPEAKER_00 0:00

It's one of them things where nowadays and it's just my thoughts. 'Cause I be picking everything apart that I see via social media in the podcast. It's like a low-hanging fruit where people will run and say, I did the work with a therapist. But you did the work with a therapist, but did it work?

Why We Brought DJ Swag Back

SPEAKER_05 0:21

Listen, guys, we've heard from you. The DMs have been buzzing, is there's been so much talk about last week's episode. And I've been sitting here churning myself on it. I've gotten calls, we've gotten the DMs, and now we need to go ahead and address this and try to get some resolution. So I'm Mill. And I'm Shantae. And we're the two.

SPEAKER_03 1:09

And we're back now with DJ Swag. Thank you so much for coming back and agreeing to do a part two. Yeah, man.

SPEAKER_00 1:16

I appreciate you. Welcome back. Big shots out to the people in the comments that were giving me the business. Hey, the people in the comments.

SPEAKER_05 1:24

They were just so surprised, you know. They were just so surprised by just you just completely opening up. I mean, where do you get that besides on the two dope chicks five?

SPEAKER_00 1:35

Besides on the two dope chicks podcasts. You never get it again.

SPEAKER_05 1:43

So I've been thinking a lot about our last conversation. Um, it it left me really unsettled because I know your public persona of just being really one of I I consider one of the best DJs, definitely in the city of Jacksonville, definitely throughout the state. I mean, incredible, incredibly talented. And just to really hear the pain that you're quietly uh going through that's unsettling. Um so we wanted to bring it back to kind of just yeah, welcome back, welcome back, welcome back, welcome back,

Pain Is Universal

SPEAKER_05 2:34

you know. In my quiet thoughts, I've been thinking about just how pain, disappointment, discouragement, how universal it is, you know. Um, and what I mean by that is whether you be man or woman, uh same sex or in a relationship, uh a hetero, it's it's still, you know, we all human. And um it affects us in so many different ways, you know. Um, so we just kind of wanted to bring you back and just talk about, really, you know, just very briefly, maybe some of the things that you're doing to really try to overcome uh where you are, because it really is, in my very humble opinion, affecting your perspective on generally, you know, on women, on relationships. Um because right now it's raw. I mean, it's very, very, very, very, very clear to me that whatever you are enduring right now is very, very raw. So can you tell us a little bit more about that?

SPEAKER_00 3:52

I'm gonna

Men Carry Regret And Buried Grief

SPEAKER_00 3:53

I'm gonna say this. What I'm it's a multitude of things for me. You know, it's not just one person. I got a lot of stuff, you know. As men, and I think I'm gonna speak for every man on this one. As men, we are looked at to be robots, we are looked at to be unhuman. So we walk around with a lot of stuff inside of us. And like I said, this is not just one person, most of them. When you start getting my age, and again, I won't tell my age, but when you start getting my age, you start to see things uh in a different light. You start seeing things for what they are, uh and then you start playing things back in your head that you went through. And what if I would have done this? What if I would have done that? You know, people it's funny to me when you see grown people rich people, well-off people, let's say that.

unknown 4:48

Uh-huh.

SPEAKER_00 4:49

Oh, I don't I don't live for no regrets because everything that happened to me got me here.

unknown 4:53

Uh-huh.

SPEAKER_03 4:54

Yes, you do.

SPEAKER_00 4:55

Right. Yes, you do. I I agree to disagree. Because again, there's a I I everybody in the world got something they look back and say, I shouldn't have did it that way. I wish I wouldn't have did it that way. Or I wish I wouldn't have handled it.

SPEAKER_03 5:08

If I could turn back the hands of time.

SPEAKER_00 5:11

Um, so the emotions that was that that overwhelmed me last show was just me talking about life.

SPEAKER_05 5:22

Yeah. Life be life in, bro. Yeah, life happening.

SPEAKER_00 5:25

Everybody, yeah, not just men, not just women. Like it happens for everybody. But me speaking as a man, we are supposed to be so strong. Oh, yeah. And we are not supposed to show no emotion. And we are, we just keep going. And that's my motto. Just keep going. Just keep on going, keep on going, keep on going. But when you just keep going, at some point it's still there.

SPEAKER_05 5:48

Yeah, it's still there.

SPEAKER_00 5:49

And it's gonna hit you. I always tell you.

SPEAKER_05 5:51

You gotta deal with it. You gotta deal with it.

SPEAKER_00 5:52

My brother passed away, I didn't cry. My godmother passed away, I didn't cry. My dad passed away, I didn't cry. One day I'm sitting in the house by myself. A song played.

unknown 6:07

Boom.

SPEAKER_05 6:08

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 6:10

What the hell is going on? Yeah, but all of them was running through my head. So it's like, oh, I thought I was over it, but in actuality, I wasn't. So for instance, us having that conversation last time, yeah. I'm good, I'm good. But then you talking about it, and then it punched you right in the chest. Bow.

SPEAKER_05 6:28

But you know, isn't that a part of the healing? I mean, you know, it's like we live we live in a culture now where it's like men, there's this hyper masculinity, is what I like to call it, of this this extremist type of I'm a man, you know, uh, I don't have emotions, whatever, whatever. Well, I mean, we all human first, you know. So I applaud you just for your courage, really just to be transparent and start talking about it because um I think there's healing and hearing yourself, really hearing uh where you are, acknowledging that my feelings matter, and um then you can kind of start working through you know what to do about them. So I apologize for that.

SPEAKER_00 7:14

Me speaking is me speaking for everybody, it's not just somebody else out there, same doggone thing.

SPEAKER_05 7:20

Yeah, absolutely.

SPEAKER_00 7:21

Oh, yeah. We we're not just talking relationships, life, bro. Everything it is somebody out there going through the same exact thing I'm going through.

SPEAKER_03 7:29

But it affects how you show up in relationships, and it affects how you show up not just in relationships with um your partner, any relationship. It could be at work, it could be with talking to your homeboy, talking to your homegirl. It shows up in so many ways because it's hard to show up as you when you're dealing with so much stuff running through your head and running through your. Just running through, running through.

SPEAKER_00 7:57

I just like I said, I'm not just speaking with me. One thing about it, uh Amarsh, I think his name is Amar Schumper, the uh Diana Taylor ex-husband. Yeah.

Nobody’s Coming To Save You

SPEAKER_00 8:08

When he said what his daddy said to him was the realest thing ever. When you realize ain't nobody care, bro. Ain't nobody care. You know, you got I got I can come call y'all and talk to y'all, y'all there for me. I got two homeboys that I can call and we gonna kick it. Um but when I get off the phone with y'all or I leave y'all house or I I leave my homeboy house, uh I still have to deal with all of this. Yeah, nobody's coming to save you, bro. Nobody's coming to help you. Nobody's it's never you just gotta keep moving. Now the healing process and all that good stuff, I think it just comes in time. When you start to see start seeing things for what they are and what they was with whatever's relationship.

The Radio Layoff Hit His Confidence

SPEAKER_00 8:55

Um I'm gonna talk about radio. Radio, when radio did uh the layoff, they don't know what they did to my self-esteem.

SPEAKER_05 9:04

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 9:06

They don't know what they did to my self-esteem. They don't know that.

SPEAKER_05 9:11

Yeah. I know. And see, it's it's a compilation of just life happening, you know, is uh a couple of weeks ago we dealt with our family relationships and just you know, the the the hurt and things um based upon choices that are made. You know, then we have our interpersonal relationships, we got our work relationships and what's going on, you know, and so it's just we just all trying to figure it out. Oh, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 9:40

That's why I said like at the end of the day, you literally just gotta keep moving. People don't know.

SPEAKER_05 9:44

But it's a choice, though. Yeah, is that keeping moving is a choice because there are folks, you know. I have met some women 50, 60 years old that are talking about something that happened in 78, 76 that is just like. But they never got past it. Never got past it, you know, ma'am.

SPEAKER_00 10:03

I think sometimes people use things that happen to them to I feel it's like you like the trauma that it costs you. So you just keep using it and reusing it and reusing it. What do you use to get away with? So at the end of the day, like I said, toxic behavior. What radio did to me, I could have just folded. And when I say what they did to me, they didn't do anything. It's laid me off. You know what I'm saying? That happens. Yeah, but for me, it was like what did I do wrong? Yeah, I just was top five in Jacksonville. Like, y'all couldn't figure out nothing. That's what I'm saying to myself in my in my head. But in actuality, it's like, bro, keep going. Just keep going. So, yes, it uh hit me in my chest, but it's keep going, keep going, keep going. And with everything in life, you literally have to keep going. So when y'all call me on the show or a male's perspective, men are trained as little boys, get your ass up and you keep on going. You don't, nobody's here like and don't cry. You can't show emotions, be a man. So that's why you see a man break down, he really breaks down. If you ever have the opportunity, and that's that sounds crazy, the opportunity to see a man break down. But you ever in the in the presence of a man and he breaks down, please don't take that for granted because it took so much for that man to break down. Because at the end of the day, everything on his shoulder is so heavy that he's literally sitting here saying, Okay, I feel comfortable enough and I can't fight it no more. Yeah, boom, here it is. But in the end of the day, it's always for a split second because I gotta snap back. I gotta snap back.

Put Yourself First To Heal

SPEAKER_00 11:43

So all in all, for for me, my healing process is stay focused, work on myself. Understand this. You have to put yourself first. It may sound crazy, you have to put yourself first. Kids, mama, and I said it, kids, mama, everybody. If you don't put yourself first, you can't help nobody else. If I'm steady helping everybody else and I'm not putting myself first, sooner or later, either I'm gonna die and I'm gonna be gone. Nah, I'm gone, you have to put yourself first. And that's my one of my biggest problems is I'm always trying to please everybody.

SPEAKER_03 12:26

And I I was just about to ask you, so looking into where do we go from here? And I know all season we've talked about, you know, the hard truths about love and um emotional safety. We've talked about, you know, the hurt and things that we felt in relationships. But now I think part of the healing process is looking at yourself in that mirror and looking at yourself and seeing that reflection is starting to get you in the mindset of owning up to some of the things that has got you to this point, gone to the left. The

Accountability For Repeating Relationship Patterns

SPEAKER_03 13:08

accountability piece is huge. Um, because in order to heal, you got to take some accountability of number one, how do I keep landing in these types of situations? Why do I keep choosing the same type of women or the same type of situations that I continue to get myself into? Like, how is that happening? So now I got to look into myself and say, what is going on with me that I keep choosing this every time? And once you continue to go deep and find that, it's now, okay, I got to heal, I'm accepting accountability. Maybe I need to seek some counseling and talk to somebody that can help me work through something. And counseling is not easy. I see, I see your eyes, I see your head.

Friends Versus Therapy For Real Healing

SPEAKER_00 14:03

I'ma say this. I'ma say this. It ain't for everybody. I'ma say this. I get more from talking to my real friends, and that is a very, very small circle. I get more from that than paying somebody that don't know me. Because these people know me, and these people are not telling me what I want to hear. These people are telling me the people that I consider true friends. I can call and say, let's drop a name, Beanie the Maestro. Bro, what you think?

SPEAKER_05 14:35

Deep Beanie Maestro.

SPEAKER_00 14:36

The Beanie the Maestro. Yeah, I can call him and say, bro, what you think? And he's bad, bro. You wrong. You did that wrong, bro. That's your fault. You know what I'm saying? So I get more out of that. That's why I tell a lot of younger guys that are that are around me, hey, bro, call me. We can talk. You got to get that off your chest.

SPEAKER_03 14:58

You can definitely give them a perspective on experience. Um, I think that's always good. But, and I know we're gonna, you know, agree to disagree here, but uh therapists is, I know you said they may not know you, but it's their job to get to know you, and they'll get to know you in time through conversations, through they do like that questionnaire at the very beginning to allow you to go deep. And then they start to ask clarifying questions to get you to provide them more information because that's their way of trying to get in. But they're trained in a certain way. Because guess what? Sometimes I may give you advice, but we may be in a situation where you, Ray Charles, and I'm Stevie Wonder. We could be the blind leading the blind. But if I go maybe to this trained person, they may have uh some type of clinical, and I I know you say we may not need it, but if I tell you right now, my chest hurts. Yes, I need to go and probably talk to a cardiologist.

SPEAKER_00 16:10

I definitely get it. I just feel like it's one of them things where nowadays, and it's just my thoughts, because I be picking everything apart that I see via social media in the podcast. It's like a low-hanging fruit where people will run and say, I did the work with a therapist. But you did the work with the therapist, but did it work? Or when you say, hey, you go talk to a if something's wrong with your heart, you go talk to a doctor, you don't go talk to your friends. I mean, it makes sense. It makes perfect sense. But sometimes people will go through that whole situation and get nothing out of it.

SPEAKER_03 16:46

You know what some people that You know why they don't get anything out of it? Because they don't put a whole lot into it. And a lot of times they sit in there and they talk on the surface level. They're not honest, they don't go deep. Um, that's just like if I go to the doctor right now, the doctor can say, Well, hey, you know, have you been exercising? Uh-huh, yeah, I've been exercising. Line. Right, right. Have you been eating right? Uh-huh. Yeah, I've been eating right. Line. And so the doctor can only help you. I thought about that apple too. The doctor can only help you based on what you're telling them.

SPEAKER_00 17:21

I definitely understand it. I think it's more of a a man thing. So I think it's more of a male, male thing. Yes, it's male therapists out there, but for me, I feel a whole lot better. Like I say, every time I have a conversation with let's be in my show, I come out on the other end like, okay, bet. Because for me, I'm speaking for me, fellas. All I need to know is somebody else going through the same shit I'm going through. Once I know that, even though you should know that already, but once I hear it from another dude, damn, I ain't own it.

SPEAKER_05 18:00

Yeah, but we could both be lost. You know what I mean? I mean, I think you just I get it, I get it.

SPEAKER_03 18:04

So I'm hearing that it makes you feel good to know that I'm not out here alone. I'm here alone by myself.

SPEAKER_00 18:12

On this island, because again, we understand there's billions of people in the world or millions of people in the world, however you want to say it. Absolutely. And we all are going through something. Absolutely. But when you're going through something, you feel alone, but you don't realize, like I said, it's certain things happen where it makes you look back and say, Well, I got it bad, but I ain't got it that bad. So when you talk about a therapist, and I've done it, I've done it. You guys know I've done it. Was it great? It was great. But at the end of the day, it was like, and she told me some things that I was just like, never looked at it that way. You know what I'm saying? I didn't look at it that way. So that does make sense. You know what I'm saying? So I'm not saying I'm totally against it, but what I'm saying is for for me, I have to do the work on me first.

Gym And Prayer As A Reset

SPEAKER_00 18:56

I have to do the work on me. I you have to find something that's going to channel your energy. And for me, that's the gym. And for me, that's running. So when I'm running and I'm listening to, I'm listening to I I type in motivational speeches for men on YouTube, and I just let that run while I'm running, it brings me back to life. Certain gospel songs bring me back to life. Uh-huh. That's me starting to do the work on myself. When I'm in the gym by myself, I can I can zone out for however long I'm in the gym. In between those sets, it might sound crazy. We're doing a little bit of praying. We're doing a little bit of reflecting. And then I think we all do it to a certain extent. My car is my sanctuary. I will sit in that car for hours, talk to myself, pray to myself. Everybody has their own thing that's gonna get them through. So yeah, absolutely. Me, I can only speak for me.

SPEAKER_03 19:57

Sitting in that car talking to myself, but you're talking to yourself. I'm talking to God, really. And yeah, and you're talking to God, and and please don't get me wrong by that. You know, that's who we all should should look to and talk to. But I think seeking other places of your own professional other professionals could definitely be a part of the healing process.

SPEAKER_00 20:22

I mean, yeah, yeah. I like I said, I'm not I'm not like, oh hell no. I ain't telling no. No, I'm not saying that. It's just maybe I need to run into one because I've done two. Maybe I need to run into one that I can really say, oh, okay. Yeah, this feels good. This is right. This is it right here. You know what I'm saying? Maybe that's what it is. The two, the two that I've run into wasn't bad, but I didn't get that from them. You know what I'm saying? Like, I didn't get what I get from the gym. I didn't get what I get from sitting in my car. Um, it's just life, bro.

SPEAKER_03 20:54

And then I think sitting in the gym or sitting in your car, that's like your comfort zone. And sometimes when we have to sit on that couch or we sitting on a computer on Zoom in front of that person, um, that's not our comfort zone. We kind of like it's challenging.

SPEAKER_05 21:09

Yes, listen, is it's it's challenging. It is very challenging. Well,

Checking On Your Strong Friends

SPEAKER_05 21:14

listen, I know that we have to wrap up. Well, I have uh thoroughly enjoyed our conversations. Yes. Um, we will pray uh blessings and joy and peace and happiness um upon you. And listen, we all gotta do better with checking up on our strong friends. Oh, yeah, definitely because you just never ever know what's happening.

SPEAKER_03 21:38

Our strong friends are break. Yeah, you do.

SPEAKER_00 21:40

Strong friends are the ones going through the most crap. Yes. Because they're strong for everybody else. Correct. But then they got their own stuff going on that they ain't letting nobody know, and they're going through it and ain't telling nobody. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 21:52

Well, I just applaud you because being the figure that you are um in our city, a lot. Of people love you, a lot of people respect you, adore you. Um, you entertain us, you you do a lot, and so I think that it's great for people to hear that even those people that come out then and you partying with them and you're making them feel good that you're doing all of this sometimes while you're dealing with your stuff, and and and we do the the same thing of while I'm trying to hype you up, you just don't even know that I'm breaking down and going through on the inside. So I just thank you so much and applaud you for being willing um to come on this podcast and share with friends. Yeah, that's all this is just come and share with us. Uh, you're welcome anytime you know we love you, and we hope that after uh coming back this time that more healing continues to happen with you and that um we help somebody because that's what this podcast is about. It's all about it's about healing.

SPEAKER_00 23:00

Yeah, we're all trying to help. Like I said, for me, I'm talking to every dude out there, bro. Yeah, you know what I'm saying? Like, yeah, bro, we all human, so we're going through it. But just know I'm going through it too. So you got to see it in full color. Like, life is life for everybody. So at the end of the day, yeah, I appreciate, I appreciate y'all for having me. Y'all had me out right out of the gym. Um, yeah, anytime. Anytime y'all want me to be a guest. I mean, maybe we can we can make a little funny podcast one time. Yes. All this all this gloomy making me feel. I love it. I love it. Great idea. Yeah, yeah. Love you.

SPEAKER_05 23:40

No one

Sponsor Message

SPEAKER_05 23:41

ever expects to be in a car accident, but when it happens, you need someone who stands on business. I'm Melissa Daniels, and this is my city. I fight for my people. I am your attorney. Scan below, save the number, and if ever in need, call.

SPEAKER_03 23:56

This has been a ride.

Season Two Takeaways And Season Three

SPEAKER_03 23:59

I have truly, truly enjoyed season two.

SPEAKER_05 24:04

Listen, I had no idea of all the places that we were gonna go. I mean, we covered so much territory.

SPEAKER_03 24:11

A lot of territory. And I'm so grateful for our guests that we had on. I remember um we talked about is love enough. And Jasmine Ronro came on the um podcast.

SPEAKER_04 24:26

And man, is love enough? When you start your relationship in the beginning of the relationship and you say, I ain't dealing with this, and I'm not, and if you cheat on me, I'm out and I'm done, right? And then you decide to stay, that you have lowered your expectation for your relationship because he's now looking at you or she's now looking at you, saying, Oh, you will tolerate disrespect, right? It's back to the disrespect, the respect part. So I think that if you're in a relationship, if you tell a person that what you value the most is respect, I think they'll hear it a different way. I'm not saying it's okay to cheat. That's not what I'm saying. I'm saying word things different because people act different. But if you're honestly, I do believe if you're gonna cheat, you're gonna cheat regardless. But I'm saying in general, don't put so much emphasis on that one thing because it's really not that. Like you said, when you cheat, that's disrespectful. So you're asking for respect. So maybe if you turn it or twist it towards, I want to be respected in this relationship, like I value respect. Maybe. I'm not saying it's gonna happen. I'm saying maybe you may get a different outcome.

SPEAKER_05 25:41

We talked about emotional safety. I enjoyed that one. I enjoyed that one because that took a deeper look into you know uh our relationship and you know, some of those taboo areas. So I I really enjoyed that. You've got to be really comfortable with yourself um to be emotionally safe for someone else. And looking back at it, uh during that time, I wasn't emotionally safe for anyone just because I was really closed off, wasn't communicating, um, and I wasn't really out. I won't say not really, I wasn't out, wasn't very comfortable with myself, which furthered the whole thing of being, you know, not emotionally safe.

SPEAKER_03 26:28

We even talked about uh being successful and how it is in the dating pool and dating someone that's successful versus the other person not being successful. Because everybody now is big on what you do for a living, yeah, uh, how much money you make, what you know, everybody wanna be on the to me, it feels like the surface level things, and we've gotten away from really and truly getting to know a person. So you find women staking out at places where they feel as though they're gonna find the caliber of men that they're looking for, and vice versa. You find men that are staking out or frequenting certain places because they're looking for um a caliber of women. So yeah, we we're living in this world now where success kind of defines, I guess, who people feel like they want to be with or attracted to. But then you get with the person and you realize, ooh, did I really want this? But I do want to say, probably my hardest one to sit through. My hardest one was it's hard to even say it. It's the one that we talked about, the hard truths of love.

SPEAKER_05 27:53

Yeah, you know, because in the back of my head, I'm like, well, you have that switch cut off, and you got thirty something, forty-something years of programming. That tells me that that was a lie.

SPEAKER_03 29:13

We know that on this journey that we all are still healing. Right. So that one was it was tough.

SPEAKER_05 29:20

Yeah, you know, but you got through it, kid. Yeah, I got through it, I got through it, and um, I really hope that that that well I already know, and I hope. I mean, I could see the feedback and the comments of just the the the utter response, you know, that that people had um that are going through similar things, yeah, absolutely.

SPEAKER_03 29:43

So, you know, um we're not in this alone, not in this alone, and this makes me even more excited for season three.

SPEAKER_05 29:54

Yeah, so you know, we put the poll out there and uh we got this incredible response from our viewers who want to talk about drum roll, please.

SPEAKER_03 30:09

Friendship. What about your friend? Yeah, they said they want to talk about outgrowing friendships. That's uncomfortable. It's uncomfortable, but we're ready for it because here on the two dope chicks podcast, this is where it goes down. It goes down. We talk about everything. So I'm ready. I may not have this Bob, so it's activated right now. So next season, get ready. Stay tuned and stay dope.

SPEAKER_02 30:41

Two dope chicks.