Navigating Motherhood in a New Place: The Power of Asking

In this episode of Birthing Beyond Borders, Paula talks about what it really takes to navigate pregnancy and new motherhood in the United States as an immigrant. From discovering unexpected resources to learning the power of asking questions, Paula shares how community knowledge, especially from other mothers, can make all the difference.

Together, we unpack the many supports available to pregnant and postpartum women, from insurance-covered breast pumps to food programs, transportation assistance, and local services that are often underutilized simply because people don’t know they exist. Paula reminds us that “the internet is your friend,” but even more powerful are the conversations we have with other women who have walked this journey before us. This episode also highlights the importance of self-advocacy in healthcare settings. This episode is funded by the 4W Initiative, and the African Center for Community Development supported the production.

Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:00

Hello and welcome to Birthing Beyond Borders, a podcast where we share the stories of migrant moms from around the world. From sleepless nights to moments of joy, we'll be diving into the real, raw, and inspiring journeys of motherhood. Get ready to laugh, learn, and experience a range of emotions while being inspired. I am your host, Adeji Makeoppade, and together we'll uncover the challenges, celebrate the wins, and honor the wisdom mothers carry across borders. Welcome to our community space.

SPEAKER_02 0:40

On this episode, I have with me Paula, who is a Ghanaian new mom based in Madison, Wisconsin. Paula, welcome to the Birthing Beyond Borders podcast. Thank you, Jumi. It's good to be here. It's good to be here. And yeah, and I'm so excited you accepted our invite. I'm really excited about this conversation. And I'm looking forward to just diving right in and talking about all of your experience and seeing, you know, what lessons you're willing to share with us. And so my first question is um I would like you to please tell us a little bit about yourself. Um, you know, I know you're from Ghana, but what part of Ghana are you from? What birthed you to the US? Um, how many kids do you have? Um, yeah, who is Paula in general?

SPEAKER_04 1:25

Great. So my name is a very long one, Paulina Deda Upokwe. But I always want people to call me Paula, just for short. And I'm a new mom. I have a kid, I have a baby girl who is seven months old, and she is my first. So I've been married for two years, and in the first year we're just using for preparation because my partner was traveling to the US and I was in Ghana, Accra, West Africa. And so we just decided to use the first year to, you know, settle in and plan. And then the second year, we decided to, you know, try for a baby, and then we had a baby. So I must say, my pregnancy journey has been one that has been a learning curve, it has not been all that smooth because for first time of you as a first time on, because it's the first time that you are doing it, so like it's not it's it's it's not easy, it doesn't come easy, I must say. And having a conversation with other people, they are also saying that it didn't come easy. But once you're able to, you know, navigate the second and the third and whatever comes, yeah, prepare for it. So it has been quite a jar, and I'm still learning.

SPEAKER_03 2:35

Yes, I'm still learning.

SPEAKER_02 2:38

Yeah, yeah. Thank you for sharing that. I I heard you say, you know, it's not easy. So is it the first one that's not easy, or is it that it's not easy just having a baby here? Like what part of it is not easy?

SPEAKER_04 2:51

My mind has to do with the whole body. You see, when you get pregnant, it's a lot of changes. And since it was my first, if I must be honest, the first trimester I felt every morning I woke up feeling maybe I might just be gone. It was so it was so draining. I kept praying. I'm like, God, please. So my mom, when I delivered, everybody was just thankful to God that I have made it through because it wasn't easy. The morning sickness was just no morning. Throughout, it was hard for me, and I couldn't drink what like I knew I had to hydrate, and water was not really something that you know I could easily take. Water is hard to drink, but in my pregnancy it was, and I was most of the time weak, and I had my job too, it was on the second floor. Sometimes the elevator was not working, and I'm walking and I'm out of the door. So I walked, I I worked till almost my seventh month. Yep, and then I traveled in here. So I walked, I worked till the very last uh month of my seventh uh month, and then I came to the US. And the reason why my sixth, yeah, I it was also high for me was the fact that for last seven months I was in Ghana, you know, going for checkups, family. You know, everybody was, you know, baby, me, my mom, my mom could call. You should eat too, you should eat, and then there's when I go to work, there's food packed for me, breakfast. Everybody was just at my bacon call. Then you come to the US, it's with my husband, and my husband, too, he's a student. Although he was there for me, some of the things, you know, sometimes I have to go, you know, get the food because we are both about it, he's there for me. But in Ghana, everybody like I don't even have to answer, everybody's at my beck and call. So it it having to travel to come here, that was the difference for me. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 4:48

Yeah. So it sounds like you got pregnant in Ghana, but you came to the US when you were about like seven months pregnant, and then you had a baby here. Yeah. Okay. I'm gonna take us back a little bit. The moment you found out you were pregnant, what was that like?

SPEAKER_04 5:03

I I planned my pregnancy as I stated. The first year was the honeymoon period, and then there's the second year we decided to have. So, so you know, some people may say, Oh, you know, I didn't know I was gonna be there before I found out I was pregnant. No, I was looking out for it. So it happened in June. It happened in June. I had been praying towards it, and my husband came, and we did what marriage couples and so fast. And so the time, the time I found out I was pregnant, oh, I have this video I made of myself with my ugly cry. I I took the test, I didn't like two times. The oh my god, and then my office, there's a hospital. I'm on the second floor, there's a hospital on the first floor. So I went to the hospital and I did a test. I I okay, let me I was excited about it. It's always, you know, having to think about. So I went to the hospital to get the you the test, the one that you pee on. They said they were out of it, but then I could do the one that they used, the like the ultrasound and stuff that I was like, oh no, I want to get that personal thing. I don't want to. So I went down to the pharmacy. I actually walked. I went to get it. I went to get three, came back to my office, rushed to that, checked, and then it was I was so happy. I was I recorded the moment, and I found a very nice way of announcing it to my husband that I was pregnant. So I got baby clothes, ones, which had one. I I love my dad, and there's one I love my mom. So I used I love my dad, it was blue. I didn't also know the gender, but he was hoping for a boy, I was hoping for a girl. And I put that ones in a box, I added the test, and then I had a note. So when he came back, I told him, Oh, there's this box I was to give for you. So he opened it, and then he knows he sounds good, like, yeah. So it was all fun. He gave himself a hug, and yeah. So it's it's a beautiful experience. When I really found I was pregnant, I was so happy. I was so happy.

SPEAKER_03 7:08

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 7:10

I mean, I I I can tell from the way your face like just lit up, you know, like just hearing you talk about it. Um, so yeah, that's very exciting. Yeah, I also heard you say that you prepared, you prepared for it. So it sounds like you know, you and your partner were intentional about like preparing or planning for pregnancy. So, what are the things that helped you prepare, you know, and you know, what helped you prepare to get pregnant? And like also the nine months or 10 months, how some people call it, what are the things that helped you prepare to become a mom?

SPEAKER_04 7:42

So, first off, I was taking my prenatal. It was my first, and then I got pregnant when I was 29. So, you know, you might say, Oh, your clock is taking. I don't really believe in that though. But in 29, it's just like I was just entering my 30s. So I feel like, okay, this is my first time. I have to take my prenate house, which is very good. Like people say, oh, you can get pregnant without it, but once you take it, it provides all the new trends for you as a mom and then the baby that you expect. So I was taking it very judiciously, and also videos. I must I'm also clogged onto social media, so I followed all the mom pages. Like once I know the mom content. Now the mom content I was on it. Once I know you're talking about oh, diaper what to expect first trimester YouTube channels. Oh, I subscribe to all the mom channels. So every trimester, every week, updates. So, okay, if I decided today the baby is the size of a pea, second, the baby is the size of a mango. So all that I knew it, and then all the signs that they told me that I was gonna expect, I was I was experiencing it. And so before I go to the hospital to go see my doctor, like when it was appointment time, I had all the questions that I needed to ask. And because maybe I think I'm also a journalist, I also love to ask questions. So, like questions upon questions upon questions, and then because my office too was very close to the hospital, the moment I feel like I'm out of house time up. I feel like maybe if I get pregnant again, the number of times I'll just go to the hospital for the cider state, it will reduce because I was like, Oh, I have to really make sure that baby is fine and I'm fine. And my husband's always calling when he calls it, I'm a I'm a little bit low. Oh, have you gone to the hospital? So, yeah. The YouTube content tells me the um Instagram content, and then my mom. One thing about Africans is that you know, in a family where we are raised, you take care of your brother's children, take of your sister's children. So that really helped. Giving birth here, and everybody said, Paula, how do you do it? See, I didn't have anybody come stay overnight. It's just me taking care of my baby, and my baby is healthy, she's fine, she is achieving all the milestone. It's because I did that for my sister's kids. I did that for my brother's kids. And even the house where I lived in before I came, there were still kids in the house, and they only call me auntie, auntie. So it all those things prepared me. And I remember when I was hard telling my mom that, Mom, I'm coming to the US, how will I do it? She's like, You can do it. And then that was all I needed. She's like, I gave birth to you. I know your mommy instincts, you've been that mom to all your all your siblings, younger, their kids, you can do it. And then that was the assurance. My mom told me I could do it, and that was it. So when I was going through the hard time, even delivery time when I was going through my mom's message, that I can do it. That was all I needed. And of course, I was able to do it. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 10:42

Oh, yeah. I love that. And you know, it sounds like, you know, in addition to paying attention to the health part by taking your prenatals, you know, you also had like experience with like helping out your own family members. And and that just like came with you when you moved to the US. Yeah. And again, your mom's reassurance. I think that that's just very beautiful. Yeah. Um, so you know, so it sounds also like your husband, he was there with you for the announcements, you know, you told him we're having a baby, and then he probably came back to the US. And so, how did you navigate that distance? You know, you were pregnant back in Accra, and your husband was here in the US. I think it's for seven months, you know. How did you navigate that that distance between you guys while being pregnant?

SPEAKER_04 11:27

Okay, so he was here for the entire first trimester for because he was on the summer break, like June. Then when he was supposed to go back, he requested for some extra two weeks. So he was there for me. And I must say, it's not easy. You know, there are there are a lot of times that we don't have the very honest conversation. True parent household is very important to me. The things that I went through, because I told you that the first semester was very hard for me. Imagine you don't have a husband rubbing your back when you are vomiting almost like everything in your stomach. You don't have him telling you be okay. Sometimes, like how my husband was there for me when it comes to intimately, not like all about sexual when it comes to sexual relations, but to hold you to rub your back in the night, you need a partner. So sometimes if you can, having a two-parent house is very important. Even if you are not married and it's a baby daddy situation, you could plan it in a way that at that time you are together. Because if you are doing it all alone, that is when you become so angry, you become so dream. But when you are at peace, your husband is there to help you. It gives you room to be you because pregnancy is hard. Like you know, the baby's taking a toll on you, there might be work, there might be other factors. So you cannot afford to do it alone. That's why they say you need your community, it takes a village. And my husband was that the second trimester, they call it the honeymoon period. So that was the time he was back in the US, and so it was not I could handle it, and then I could eat that time. I could walk, I could go here, I could grab this, I could do that. The morning sickness had reduced, and so you see, it was just at the right time that he was so even though of course I I missed him, you know, rubbing my back, doing the foot massage or the pancreas, I want to eat this. Oh, and I love to uh it was a nights, you know, a night where my sometimes my payment is high. This this gentleman could go like two hours' drive to get me what I was requested for. I didn't stress him a lot, but I made sure to put in one or two. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It was okay, it was there when I needed him the Mozuan, the first trimester. The second trimester he was back in the US, but then there I still went back to live with my sister. So then in Ghana, my community was strong. Yeah. So when my husband left, okay, I went back to my sister's house to, you know, continue. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 14:00

Okay. And so so when he left and he came back to the US, and you know, at some point he also came and you joined him here in the US. Yeah. And when you moved to the US, were there like cultural practices um that you you had taught yourself, oh, this is certain cultural things that I'll do as a pregnant mom or when I just have my babe that you couldn't do here in the US?

SPEAKER_03 14:18

I think with me, I wanted to how do I put it? Um I I'm I love my space, right?

SPEAKER_04 14:28

And so the only thing that maybe I think I missed was, you know, when you had a kid, it's either your mom or your grandmom who gave that baby, that that hot uh bath, you know, massage the hair, the stuff with that. But even with that, I did it myself. And even though the mom or grandma was not around, my baby is still healthy. But I must say, one of the things that I love being away from home was the fact that I didn't have a lot of people in my space. You know, when you're pregnant or when you have a kid, oh, this long distance people gonna come in, trooping and stuff like that. I don't know, but for how I am and how protective I am, the only people I would feel free being around my mom and my sisters, like the immediate. And so I think it could be positive, it could be negative. Like I got right my wish because I was away from home. Because maybe I distance auntie would come and then you could you you can't be so strong, like, oh, don't touch my name. You don't want to come off us that. Oh, you're a new mom. What do you think? You think we are gonna have your child? So my mom instinct, it was okay here. But the only problem was the fact that you know when you're pregnant, you deliver there's care. Uh in the first, the first day, your mom's gonna give you that soup, that lice soup that is very healing that you take lys soup. But then I was fortunate to have a friend at church bring me live soup. Yeah, and and and and I didn't expect that. Uh I thought I was just gonna eat the hospital food. So it was the food I really, really missed. And you know, the whole massage that they give pregnant women and all that. I missed that, but then of course, it wasn't how do I say I I compromised. There were other things that I did, and the small community I had here, that's the people from church, they really held me down. But generally, I just missed my mom. Like, you know, my mom could have, you know, taken charge of baby so that I could have just slept, I could have just ordered, I want this, I want that. But sometimes I had to get up and get my own thing. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 16:33

Yeah. Thank you. Thank you for sharing that and for acknowledging that, you know, for us Africans, we talk a lot about like our community, but you know, enough that you mentioned that like sometimes it could be very overwhelming, you know, especially with like extended family. You know, I heard you say that, you know, you want your mom and your sister, but if you're back in Africa, sometimes you would have like aunties and uncles and all these people feeling like they can come to your space, you know, that first week you just had a baby. And maybe sometimes all you need is just your own space. You know, you just want to give the baby to your mom and just have space to just breathe and just be you and feel like you know, you're still in control in some sort of way. So thank you so much for acknowledging that. Yeah, I also wanted to ask you, you know, I heard you say that in Ghana there was a hospital on the first floor, so it was easy to like just, hey, something's wrong with me. You go to the hospital. But when you came here to the US, what was the healthcare like? What's the difference between the healthcare here in the US as a pregnant mom, as a pregnant person, and the healthcare back in Ghana? Um, and how do your interaction with healthcare providers here impact positively or negatively your pregnancy experience?

SPEAKER_04 17:41

So, first off, I had heard uh some black women complain that yeah, they don't get the best treatment when they visit the hospital here in the US. You know, some of the old the the thing that sometimes is targeted, because you are black, sometimes the experience is bad when you're pregnant. Maybe how someone will speak to you, how they attend to you, blah blah blah. But to be honest, that wasn't my story. Um maybe I'll explain, and maybe I might say that some factors contributed to that. But back home, I was also privileged to go to uh private health care. So it was like the standard because it was my first we plan, we invested in that. So it was the standard that we're going to get the best health care. And so when I was coming, you know, had to just transfer like the progress and all the details, my medical records to here. And I must say, when I came here, some of the tests I have done, I think they felt like, well, maybe it was inferior to Africa, like, you know, maybe if I told I'm vaccinated against it, like we had to redo most of the things and all the tests, like you know, signed by a doctor, okay. This is my blood. They were like, oh, we had to redo all of that. I was like, okay, it's like you're coming from Ghana, coming from Africa. Maybe the things that you said, maybe the test that they ran, it was not accurate. That was how I felt, but maybe if it's for medical purpose, you never know. So you had to redo all those things again. And I must say the doctors, it was just a few occasions, even with that, you know, like with my charts, they give you feedback to maybe rate your experience, and then when it wasn't all that good, I had to, you know, leave a comment. With me, I'm I'm very big with feedback. I'm I'm not that person who might say, Oh, you your your your reaction was not good to me, and I'm like, Oh, I kept quiet. No, I'm I'm I'm uh I I will get my result. Like this money we are paying here, and I'm I'm always standing up like my advisor, like, Paula, I know my rights. My friends call me Paul, I know my rights. So even the days where it wasn't so good, I'm like, I might chip it in a little bit. Like, oh, I really want to like you know, sometimes when you look they want to brush it up, I I'll repeat it. So, like you, you if you know what you are about, some of the things, you know, you you don't get walked over. Yeah, and I must say they they ask a lot of details. So for instance, which I think like this is this is the gist. Like you see, my husband, when they ask you are in school, okay, you are do your PhD, then it gives somebody who is learned. So it's like, okay, these people know what they are about. That's I said that might be why I had a good because everybody was saying, oh, this and that, but I didn't have anybody work over me. So I think that's when it comes to a somebody when you talk and you know what you're about. I didn't have a doula, so I was you know advocating for myself, and even though I was, you know, pregnant, I was going with my partner and all that. So I think the experience was good. All you know, they are good, you know. Yeah, pregnant women, people are way nicer to you, but then you also have to be someone who comes up very strong, know what you're about, and don't ask timid and all that. Definitely you're not gonna be working for, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 20:55

Okay, so it sounded like um just like first you guys being educated people, and then the confidence you had to like ask questions and push back and probe was very instrumental in helping you have a good experience in general at the healthcare center. Okay, thank you.

SPEAKER_00 21:13

This episode of Birthing Beyond Borders is funded by the 4W Initiative and supported by the African Center for Community Development. Please check out these two wonderful organizations. Details can be found in the description below.

SPEAKER_02 21:28

Um, so now I want to transition to like postpartum, you know, after you had your baby. The moment you held your baby, what was that like? Can you put it into words? If you if you could if you could put those, you know, those feelings, that moment into two ones, what would it be?

SPEAKER_03 21:48

I feel fulfilled. I felt I felt all the pain, all the struggle. I felt I felt I had been crowned.

SPEAKER_04 21:58

Like I had I had a natural. Extra unmedicated birthday. So no medication. I pushed my baby and the third push, my baby was here. You might say, oh, then it wasn't difficult. It's because I spent months practicing my breeding technique, how to push. So I did not waste all my energy screaming. It was all into, you know, when the contract, like when the wave came, I'm there. When it's good, like everything was smooth because I was prepared for it. I had really read whether it was books, what to expect, everything I was on top of my game. So like everybody after delivery was like, congratulations, mom, you did so well. And then I had doctor and nurses coming in. They said you did it unmedicated. Oh, with three pushes, you were there. And this is not to say it was easy. It wasn't easy. But then I was I was prepared for it. All the pain I was going through, I knew the goal was to have my baby. And so when my baby was there, my sister always told me that I was not going to remember all the pain and suffering that I had been through when the baby came. And I I was always, you know, fighting against it. But it's so true. It is so true. I didn't remember anything again. And when I held my baby, I felt everything was right. And it has been right, even though it's been difficult to think.

SPEAKER_02 23:27

Thank you. Thank you. So I think now I know, you know, for when it's my turn, I know who to go meet. Like, tell me how you did it and come and take all this advice and tricks and tips from you.

SPEAKER_04 23:38

I got you.

SPEAKER_02 23:40

Yeah. Thank you. Thank you, Paula. Um, so I, you know, I heard you say that, you know, when you were in Ghana, you had like your community. Your community was strong. Those were the words you used. Um, but then when you had a baby here in the US, what was that like? You know, not having your mom or your sisters. How did you navigate those first three weeks, three months of having the baby without your family here?

SPEAKER_04 24:10

Jimmy, it wasn't easy. It wasn't easy. It wasn't easy. Um it wasn't, it wasn't at all, it was hard. Especially, you know, when you know in the hospital, you know, the the nurses are attending to you. When you come home, it's you and your baby. The first night, I was like, ee, is that so what it was gonna be? I should have even stayed in the hospital because because it was all medicated, you know, natural delivery. The next day, I spent a day in the hospital. The next day I was home, they just channeled because I was doing well. They confirmed that I was fine. So when I came home, there was no nurse, you know, attending, no baby. It was just me and my husband, and my baby said she was not going to stop crying. She's you really, and then there was no sleep. I know there was no sleep, and then you know the vagina bed down there, the area was burning. It was just a whole lot. So it was hard. And I as I said, if I was back home, my mom could have taken charge of the baby, and I could have, you know, had the whole time to heal and all that. But then my husband was very, very instrumental. So you need to prepare when it comes to food. So if you're a new mom listening to me, like the first month is crazy. So once, like, you know, force the second week or the first week to deliver, you should make sure. If you're not the one stocking up your fruit, you should make sure that maybe there's somebody to cook for you. So all you have to do is just the baby when you're hungry, because and then you should have snacks too, because you'll be snacking a nice, drink a lot of water and all that. So once you have food, like stew, you have soup, you have rice, you have all your favorite meal in the fridge, it becomes very easy. Then you don't have to start preparing food from scratch. No, because mom, you're gonna need that food.

SPEAKER_02 25:56

Thank you for calling that out. I, you know, I've seen videos of people like meal prepping before they go to the hospital. So it makes sense now that especially if you don't have like your relatives around to help you make food, it's it makes sense to like have it like in a freezer or something so you can just bring it out and use it as you go. Um, I still want to touch on like a very important topic, you know. Um, a lot of people as Africans, a lot of us don't like to talk about mental health, you know. Um, and sometimes even if we're struggling with mental health, we just we pray it away or we don't, we just say it's fine. It's you know, we just don't pay attention to it. Um, and for some mothers, you know, they go through postpartum depression or they have like anxiety around taking care of the baby, or they're just like some people call it baby blues, which is a real thing. But you know, when it gets to a point where it's beyond that, then it's becoming concerning. So I was wondering if that's something that happens to you, is that something you experienced? If you did, how did you navigate it? If you did not, what do you think were protective factors for not experiencing that?

SPEAKER_04 26:59

So, with all the things I read and how prepared I was, the postpartum reality will hate you no matter how it is. And I might say, there again, your community. You need somebody to be there for you. I remember one time I just had a break, like during the first three weeks, I had a break, I had a breakdown. I was in the shower, I was crying, I was crying, I was crying, my husband rushed me, he's like, What was wrong with me? I was like, I don't know, I just feel like there's something wrong with me, but I don't know where it is, but then there's something wrong with me. And it was because I hadn't slept. Sometimes I feel like I am not up to the task because I'm like, okay, I'm caring for my baby, she's eating all right, but am I being the good mom? Like a whole lot will rush through your your your brain, and then that's why I say that with me for what I've been through, I would advocate for two parents' powers with sis, because sometimes someone might ask you a question, can you even be like, Oh, did you was it too CS? Or maybe it was too normal vagina delivery. Like something someone can say something that will trigger, and you know where we come from Africans? Some some, not all, some of us, maybe even it was CS, they'll be like, Oh, so you couldn't have a vagina out bed, it was CS. Are you lazy? Can you imagine? And so, if you have all these comments coming to you and you have a partner who's gonna stand up for you, take a phone call, and tell people to stay away from her wife if you don't have any good thing to say to her, all these things help. All these things help, and also like what really helped me was the people that I had because my doors were open. One of the things that this um my my pastor's wife, she told me that Paula, open your doors. If someone wants to come and visit you, let them come. Sometimes when they come, there's nothing to do, and then there's utensils, let them wash the balls. If you're sweeping, let them sweep. If someone comes from the church and you really trust the person, let the person hold that baby and go and sleep. Because Jimmy, you being deprived from sleep could lead you into depression because the baby is crying, you haven't bathed like for two days almost, you haven't bathed because you are with the newborn and then the baby had vomited on you. And if you see me before pregnancy, and I what's the big deal? Like all of us, I'm so huge now. I'm not looking at like myself. I I stand in the mind, I'm like, okay, who is this? You will be hit, you'll be good no matter how strong you are. So I'm not saying always, always ask for help and be open. As I told you, I'm somebody that I really love my space. But that advice that I got really helped me. I was open. My mom could call and uh be honest. Like, I'm a very strong woman. I'm a I'm how do I say have this strong resistance of pain? Like that's when maybe I had this natural medicated vagina, but that even the strongest people, you will be hit. You'll be hit when you are sleep deprived. When you you what when you when you are not yourself, you cannot even do your you know, your facial, the things that you used to do to make you feel happy. It can lead you to a lot. And then you always need someone with you. Like talk, talk. And one of the things that really helped was the uh, you know, the hospital follow-up. So I have the card. So when when when maybe you are bleeding, you're over bleeding, when you think you're you're having thoughts, like this whole postpartum thing, there was always like they gave a number to call, of course. If I had gotten to that extreme, definitely I was gonna call. Definitely I was gonna call. So I think the healthcare system here, the postpartum, it's not like maybe there's someone coming to your house and most of the pattern, they've made it readily available. Like they gave you, gave me booklets, you know, numbers to call in case of emergency. There's something I'm not really understanding. There's a lactation consult available. So all those things I'm asking, if you don't know, you also ask. That's why we need like the hospital. Maybe someone might not be really vocal like me to ask all those questions. So, but depending on the hospital that you go, they'll make all these pamphlets, all these educational materials, you know, available for you. So I came here with a lot of things to read, and then all those things help me. If I had needed it, definitely I could have given them a call and then I could have been sorted out. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 31:43

Yeah. Thank you. Thank you so much for sharing that. You you mentioned the very important point. You said talk, like talk about it. You know, a lot of times we African women, we want to be strong women. You know, we saw our mothers do it and did not complain, so we don't want to complain. Especially if you're here in a country where you don't know too many people, we also don't like to share our business. You know, we're very, we're very private people. It's like I don't want to put my business out there, but it's very important to like talk about your experience and talk about the things that you're going through and see if somebody can provide a solution or direct you in the way to go. So um, thank you for uh mentioning that important part. I still heard you talk about your pastor's wife. Um, so it sounds like you know, you had like some sort of community or people that stepped up for you. So, what role did religion play, you know, in navigating being a new mom in a new space?

SPEAKER_04 32:36

So I've been a Christian all my life, and this is the time I really, really felt the importance of the church. Right from when I came in, you know, prayers, you go to church, people ask you, are you okay? And everybody's nice to a pregnant man. I haven't seen if you're not nice to a pregnant man, then you immediately have a big problem because we are vulnerable, we are always tired, everybody wants to help out. Oh, how are you? How are you doing? All those things help. And I remember when I had my child, the first two weeks we had an emergency and we had to rush to the emergency ward. And the first person we called was my sister. She was all the way in Ghana. The second person was my pastor. And then it was around 11. They drove all the way from Sampari to the hospital here, not so far from you know, uh, Eagle Heights. They drove all the way there and they stayed with us till you know we're discharged. All these things was as a result of the religious community, like prayers, you know, prayer. I remember my pastor gave me this Bible verse, and I really held on to it, which was one of course assurance that in this new time, no man is gonna miscarriage. No, we are not gonna have children who are gonna die. So, like anytime I was going through, you know, any difficult time, that was the pre the that was the Bible verse I was holding on to. And then that really, really helped me, encouraged me to and the church to my the first person who who when I came back to the house who would help bath my child, taught me physically how to bath my baby was my pastor's wife. She came in day after day to make sure that I knew how to handle a newborn, how to bath the baby. She will show me how to use the diaper cream because when I came, I didn't know how to use the diaper cream to prevent rash. I was using my shebata because you know the shebata is all that I knew. The African situation. It was like, oh, Paula, you have to use this nappy. She bought the nappy, that that diaper rash came for me. She bought this, she bought the stool that I sat on to bat my baby because I didn't have the one I was having, it was high. So you really, as much as I was prepared for it, I needed that person who wasn't my mom to show me how to hold my hands and carry me to that. So when it was, it was just not prayers that they offered me. They offered me all the things that I needed to know. And that really, really, really, really helped me.

unknown 35:17

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 35:20

Thank you for sharing that. Um, I have a lot of friends who talk about how like some motherly figure in their life would always teach them how to bake a newborn baby. And I often wonder, like, is that something they teach at the hospital? Like, you know, you know, some people attend birthing classes. Do they teach you how to like bathe the baby at the hospital? Or what do they teach you during these classes? They they do.

SPEAKER_04 35:43

So when I had the baby, when I delivered Ubia and uh the nurse that came to show me how to bath her, you know, when then you you put the baby in like top. I have one and then you know, there's a cloth. But then the African way that it is you put the baby on your lap, you know, you sit on the stool, you put your your your legs on the top, you put the baby on your lap, and then you bathe the baby. So they told me that you know the modern ones, like yeah, so yeah, bathing the baby, there's nothing going through the the eyes, you know, water is not in the ears. So, yeah, you you you you'll be given that tutorial, and which was very helpful. Then I'll so okay, then I can do it. Then when I came in, my pastor's wife too, Lady Joe too, was here to help me. So they did they do the hospital. You could ask all that. So they told me how to breastfeed for the first time, how to put how to handle the breast, put it in the baby, how to latch when the baby's latching properly. They told me all that. So there was a nurse helping me, holding on my my breast. Okay, this is how you put it. So that there's an actation called like that was really, really, really, really helpful. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 36:56

Okay. Okay. Okay. And that takes me to our next section, which is like the systems and resources that you, you know, that you found to be most helpful. Um, I've heard you talk about like not having a doolab, but I've also heard you talk about like faith spaces and like religious organization and the role that um that you know like the nurses played as well. Um, were there any other resources or systems that you felt was helpful during this period? In addition to the ones that we've talked about throughout this conversation?

SPEAKER_04 37:29

Okay, so the hospital where I delivered, SMC, uh so they they they had their websites. There's a part where for moms. So, you know, it helped you, they they gave you like a tour of where you're gonna deliver. And then there was also part when, like, you know, when it has to do with lactation and all that. So some of these hospitals, their websites, it will give you all the go-to for uh a mom when you are carrying when you even deliver. As I stated, they gave me numbers of you know, lactation, consultants, and all that, you know, there's if you are going to postpartum, there's a number to call. They gave you something to read. If there's any sign, like the danger signs, if anything, you are bleeding, your baby is feeling this way, this is you have to immediately call 911, come visit us. All those things are provided. And also sometimes, uh, I remember a friend shared a link where it was like a mommy class. So, okay, today they are discussing this, they are discussing that. There was also part where there was a sit-down, so maybe uh it was once in a month in come, but I never went. So there's going to be a place where mommies they are going to sit, they are going to discuss like how we are talking about how to navigate all these things. There was an option for that. So I'm not saying you have to really, really, really read. Even if you don't know anything, just you can just Google. How do I? Is there a mommy class? Something will pop up. And most of these things, sometimes they are free. It's when you want to go advanced where there's you know money involved. So I'm as if you don't have money to afford a driller, or maybe if you are not too open, you don't know who a doula and all those things are. The internet is your friend. Anything you can just go. And then there are a lot of these free online packages where you could learn a thing or two. Read about it. You could start with breastfeeding, even if it's formula, how to, you know, mix the formula, if it's breastfeeding, how to handle the fresh milk, everything, everything. As a mom, you can never be found wanting. You shouldn't be found wanting. You should always be prepared because it's a new life you are bringing to the world. And God has given you that gift. You cannot make excuses on, like, oh, had I known. When it comes to babies, they are very vulnerable. They don't even, if there's something biting, then they cannot even say it. So you ask the mom or the dad, you have to step up. And I'm asking all this reading that I did, I did with my husband. So he was, I was changing diapers, was changing diapers. He was quick to tell me, okay, baby is acting like this. Have you also noticed it? Because we were also reading more about it and we were stepping up to take care of the baby. So it's all about reading, reading. If you don't know anything, baby is acting away. Feel free to call your mom or call an elderly person and be like, oh, baby is acting that way. Isn't normal? If it's not, they'll always tell you, oh, go see your doctor, and then that'll be it.

SPEAKER_02 40:35

Thank you. Um, one thing that really, you know, caught my attention when you were talking is um you said that your husband also was reading this informational materials with you. And so he was also aware. And so he could call your attention to something and say, Have you noticed this? And I think that that's very important, at least for mothers who have birthing partners, you know, just like doing it together and not just cleaning the baby's butt together, but also like researching the things that you need together. Thank you for calling calling that out. Yeah. Um, were there any resources or services you wish you had known about or you wish you had access to that you probably found out after you had your baby? Or, you know, is there something that you that you think about sometimes and you're like, oh wow, that could have been very helpful?

SPEAKER_04 41:20

Well, I must say the I like the resources available. I also spoke to moms, people who have already delivered here in Wisconsin. So, okay, what's available? Oh, there's wick, even though I've not signed up for it, but they told me, oh, there's wick, you can get this benefit, you can contact these people, they could help you with um say baby clothes, you could contact this new, they could help you with breast palm. So, okay, your insurance will help you with breast palm. So, all these things, I got to, as I stated, you don't know, you have to ask, okay, where you find yourself, the states where you find yourself, what are some of the interventions, what are some of the you know materials, the aids available, and then they are gonna teach you when it comes to uh pregnancy, when it comes to babies, most women do not gatekeep. They are very open because uh you know we all want to be helpful, especially the African community. So, okay, but Paula, you could turn up to work. Oh, your insurance will give you breast pump. You don't have to buy breast pump. Well, it was definitely gonna buy a breast pump, but then they told me that it could apply to my insurance, which of course the hospital to make mention, and I did, and I had my you know, my breast pump, and then fine, like I continue receiving like you know, some parts independent like mass. It came for the first six months, and as I sit in, there's wake available, haven't signed up to it. There are places where maybe if you don't have diapers, you could even get free diapers. So there's so much available. There's so much available. All you have to do is ask. Even when you go to the hospital, I think there's a form that they give you. Oh, maybe if shelter is a problem for you, even if transportation is a problem for you, they are gonna what help you out. So maybe, for instance, your your your partner is a student and you don't have a car, maybe you are pregnant, you don't want to join the bus, maybe you get somewhere, you have to walk. When you go in, they give you all the forms that you are feeling. If transportation is a problem, they have a free transportation, they're gonna give you all these things. The hospital told me, but then I didn't use it because we had the means of transporting ourselves, even if it's food, like the the the county where you even find yourself. There are some food programs that you can even go get groceries and all those things. So it's always good to talk to a mom, someone who has done it. If you are in church, you have to ask your people, okay, what are some of the you know benefits that we could get? And the people are always going to open up to you. So don't be shy, don't feel like, oh no, especially when maybe you're a student, you know, you're not really working, maybe some people are undocumented and all those things.

SPEAKER_02 44:00

whatever it is they are there they're people who are willing to uh you know help so always always reach out to people always ask questions and if you are shy you could always get the internet just search anything that comes to your mind if there's all those things available then you just grab it yeah uh yeah thank you for sharing that um like you said there's so many resources here available to um pregnants and new moms and and sometimes a lot of people don't even realize that this is available to them you know like you said you can get uh breast pump through your insurance I didn't even know that you know I'd have probably like paid for it but that's money that I could have saved. So you know just the power of like having conversations like this I think is very important for our community.

SPEAKER_04 44:46

My last question to you Paula is for healthcare workers because I've you know heard you provide advice for like new moms who are just coming into the US or navigating motherhood in a new space but for healthcare workers is there any message you'd like to pass across to them if you know we have healthcare workers listening to this in terms of like providing maternal child health for African immigrants um in the US so I might say healthcare workers are doing amazing honestly taking care of people in the hospital becoming mothers with whole lot of need sometimes they're just going through a lot and you know your temper could be way up some people are just vomiting some people doing delivery they even poop and all that a whole lot happens but these people I remember when I was pushing I was like oh and my poop they were like feel free if you want to poop just poop of course I did not poop during that time they're like don't worry mommy you can and all those things so I must say that pregnant women are very vulnerable sometimes first time it could even be your second time there's so many things that could go on there could so many things that could go wrong and so many things that could go right and when a pregnant woman comes and and sometimes yeah I listen to some people black women and they tell you that maybe they didn't get the best care and I'm like how how how cruel how mean can you be that a woman who is just not walking on the street she's in the hospital because of a condition because she's about to deliver because she's not feeling well you should be able to attend to them you any every profession they have code and you know ethics as a journalist I have one that I abide with and health professionals to be are supposed to abide by that nobody forced you into that you found yourself into it whether you have the passion for it or you're trying to make money we are all humans and I must say you can be mean to anybody but not a pregnant woman. So when they come in with their needs even when someone comes in and you know that they are not so well read they don't even know whatever is going on you should be able to you know give them what they need and even overshare. I must say sometimes when you're asking your health professionals oh maybe what formula do we need sometimes they don't want to be too open about okay use this use that go buy this one I don't know whether it's lawsuits that they are trying to avoid maybe they don't want you to use that maybe guess it you'll be like oh it was this doctor who said I should use this particular so I think maybe if where we find ourselves for fear of lawsuits or whatever sometimes they are not so open in like oh maybe my you when you go to the because I remember when I was considering using a formula and I asked my doctors like oh with formulas when you go to you know the shops there's a whole lot but never you know I was pressing but I just realized that he didn't want to mention a particular one recommend a brand or recommend any brand so that one too is a little bit tricky get what I'm saying but then as I say to maybe for lawsuit or whatever it is there's been some bad experiences but in as much as you know you should be very open when the mother is asking you about okay in case of emergency how do I do CPR I remember one time so I was asking one of my doctors like oh how do I do CPR I think he just went round and around he didn't want to you know you know demo I don't know whether it was with time I'm like you said I should ask any question I'm asking questions like you know so we should you we should also be well ready if someone is not being forthcoming that's why you have your community you should ask people questions but as I stated whenever you see a pregnant woman people are nice I'm not gonna say the health professionals here are not nice they are very professional because where I come from even during labor you know some people then they say they beat them like you are being lazy you might push the baby will you lose the baby like yeah sometimes they're not considered because they are whole like something go to a government hospital they are line line up of mother sample to deliver nobody has your time yeah coming to push oh mommy no hurry up and leave the bed for someone else to come but here they are not like that they are very welcoming they are very friendly but of course some people have shared bad experience but in my or if I'm if I'm rating over 10 definitely I'm gonna give them an 8 or 8.5 because for me for the hospital that I was the the the the reception was good and also always research about about um pregnant and infants friendly health facilities. I think those people when they really specialize in such programs the reception is good you hardly have bad experience and if you have any bad experience mommy don't be shy talk to somebody complain before you leave the hospital because when you when when you complain and you step up then it means it's not going to happen to the next person but you'd be like oh you know I'm not from this place I'm an immigrant you know I don't want to talk to get you're not going to get yourself into any trouble. They should rather be the ones fearing that they they mess with the wrong person. So always speak up speak up when you advocate for yourself the next time if if there's a mean doctor of a meanness there and you really release up to them next time when they see a black person you're gonna give them a salute.

SPEAKER_02 50:29

Yeah thank you so much Paula that was just beautiful and I love how you like affirmed our mothers because like you said I'm not a mom so I I I can only you know I can only share the experiences that I've heard from people like you and from you know and relatives but you you all are doing an amazing job and it's just so beautiful to hear you know your stories and how you navigate being a mom in new spaces. So thank you so much for joining us today and um thank you for sharing your story. Thank you. Thank you so much.

SPEAKER_01 51:01

Thank you so much for joining us on this episode of Birthing Beyond Borders. I hope you've learned something new or felt thin in today's conversation. If you're a mom listening today know that you're doing an incredible job and as a community we are so proud of you. Please share this episode with another mom or with a friend who might find it helpful. Remember you're not alone and you don't need permission to do the things that bring you joy. I'm rooting for you. Goodbye