From Someone’s Daughter to Someone’s Mother: The Quiet Shift into Motherhood

In this episode of Birthing Beyond Borders, we explore what it means to enter motherhood informed, intentional, and deeply reflective—and how even the most prepared journeys still come with unexpected lessons. Elizabeth shares how her love for reading and research shaped her pregnancy experience, equipping her with knowledge about maternal healthcare disparities and the importance of self-advocacy. From carefully selecting providers to even relocating for better care, she and her husband made deliberate decisions rooted in clarity, communication, and shared values. Her story highlights how being informed can empower mothers to navigate healthcare systems with confidence.

We also step into the emotional and mental transition into motherhood—the moment of holding her baby, the shock of new realities, and the quiet realization that becoming “mom” doesn’t always happen instantly. In a deeply reflective moment, she shares how her identity shift took time and how her faith helped her recover during the postpartum period. 

This episode is funded by the 4W Initiative, and the African Center for Community Development supported the production.

Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:00

Hello, and welcome to Birthing Beyond Borders, a podcast where we share the stories of migrant mums from around the world. From sleepless nights to moments of joy, we'll be diving into the real, real, and inspiring journeys of motherhood. Get ready to laugh, learn, and experience a range of emotions while being inspired. I am your host, Adeiji Makel of Made. And together, we'll uncover the challenges, celebrate the wins, and honor the wisdom mothers carry across borders. Welcome to my community space. In this episode, I have with me Elizabeth, who's a PhD candidate and is currently working on a dissertation while juggling being a new mom to a wonderful baby boy. Welcome to the Birthing Beyond podcast, Elizabeth.

SPEAKER_00 0:53

Thank you for having me here.

SPEAKER_01 0:54

You're very welcome. And thank you so much for taking the time to chat with me today, despite, you know, all the many things that you have on your plate. I'm so grateful and I do not take, you know, the time that you've made for this for granted. Um, so yeah, let's go right into it. Um, can you tell us a little bit about yourself? Um, you know, what country are you from? What brought you to the United States? Um, how is the PhD journey going? Just whatever you feel comfortable sharing.

SPEAKER_02 1:25

A bit about myself, what brought me to the United States, a couple of reasons, but primarily education, um, a bit about myself to kind of put things into perspective, especially with regards to what I guess uh we'll be talking about down the line, where I believe we'll be talking about down the line. Um I be a family background. Let's say I I came from I'd say I come from a privileged home. We were okay, but I cannot deny my privileged, and that came with deep responsibility. And there were some values that I think um I'd say my family set in me, um, I'd say for the first 14 years of my life, and up until it was time to leave. So I'd say when it was time to leave. I lived in a couple of countries before I moved to, or I lived in several places before I moved to the US. And um how long have I been in? So yes, that's the little background, and how long have I been in the US? I'd say been in the US for almost a decade now. In if I found the in and out non-frequent aspect of it, so almost a decade. Yes.

SPEAKER_01 2:59

Awesome, awesome. And um you said that the primary reason you came out to the US um was to study. Did you come out here for your undergrad or was it uh a graduate degree?

SPEAKER_02 3:13

It was a the first time it was for an exchange program, and that was an extension of my undergrad, and then the second time it was for my graduate degree, so my master's degree, and then now my PhD degree. Okay, and uh that's been like seven years now for graduate school.

SPEAKER_01 3:34

Right. And and what would you say is your favorite thing about living in the US?

SPEAKER_02 3:38

I think that I'd I'd say it is home and family is you know what you make of it. I know that might sound a little profound, but um in the US, home and family is what you make of it, especially if, of course, your family um is not here. You in my case came to study and you know, you have family back at home. And we are people of um I I believe humans generally are people of community. So there has been that um there's always that longing of wanting to find, you know, quote unquote community. And um so home and family is what you what what you make of what you make of it. And um having fundamental values that define what you call, what you consider family, what you consider home, um I think has been the highlight of the favorite part of living in the US. So and that means that the value systems like character, value systems like love, in all its um multifaceted aspects, but value systems like faith. Faith is a prism at which I uh through which I view my life. It's the lens at which um that guides every other, every action, every decision that I take. So faith, um, the value system of faith, and my faith is what I use to define love and all its facets. So and um finding community that embodies that I think has been the highlight. And I believe you can find it anywhere in the world that you go, but because those are again things that are fundamental to my value systems, have been things that I have proactively sought to um to find and to build. And by God's grace, I have been fortunate with that. Um, and I consider that a privilege in itself as well. So, yes, I'd say that that has been the highlight of my time in the US, family and home, and where I found it.

SPEAKER_01 5:59

Thank you so much for sharing that. Um, it's very interesting. You know, sometimes when I ask people, what's your favorite thing about coming to the US? A lot of people will say, Oh, it's the opportunities that I have here that I did not have back at home. And, you know, um hearing you talk about like the values that you've found to be helpful in being grounded in the US is very interesting. Because if somebody asks me, I'll probably say, I just love that there's like constant electricity. And I know that that's something that's like available everywhere, but for me, it was something I hate the sound of noise and generators and not having to deal with generators is probably more like I'm being honest. Um, but thank you so much for you know for sharing that with us. Um, I want to move, you know, towards a deeper angle now. I want you to go to the moment you found out you were pregnant. Um, what did that moment feel like for you? Um, close your eyes and just think back about it. What ex what what emotions you know flooded through your mind in that moment?

SPEAKER_02 6:59

Frankly speaking, it was um combination of I'm happy, oh, I'm anxious, what if, and several what ifs it was a combination of, oh, I am pregnant and um joy, and then uh oh, what have I done?

SPEAKER_01 7:23

Yeah, and I recognize that's the exact same way a lot of mothers, especially first-time mothers, feel. Um, you know, a lot of times we feel like, oh my gosh, this is something I want. You know, I want to be a mom for sure. And then you find out, you see those two pink lines, and you're like, oh my goodness, it's happening. Am I ready? Did I think this through? You know, so I I I can definitely um confirm that I've heard this from, you know, a few of my friends who are moms as well, and who have talked about how like they felt super anxious at the same time, they were very excited. And so, you know, I'm wondering what are the things that helped you prepare for the journey ahead, you know, the moment you found out um what what made it easier to accept the fact that, yeah, this is really happening. I'm going to be a mom.

SPEAKER_02 8:10

I would say two things, right? A big part of it would be my faith. Okay. Um, and that was um going back to God and being I mean, of course, I had prayed, you know, of course, you pray God, you know, you pray to God for everything, you pray to God um for children, whether it's now or whether it's in the future, you just pray, you pray, you're praying. Uh at least that's what I did. Uh, went to God and just prayed and asked for peace. Because again, there is there were mixed there were mixtures of joy but at the same time anxiety. Um, and it was hard to know which it I was happy, it wasn't like I was I was joyful rather, it wasn't like I was um constantly anxious, but of course there was that subliminal what have I done voice that you kind of need that um peace as a basal understanding to overshadows. So I would say faith, and the second thing that I would say is community. So fate once two community. Um I am very uh um particular about community. And like I said earlier on community, um, which is uh family, which is um home and wherever you find it. So I'd say community, um, friends that I you know you can just talk about these and uh you especially godly counsel. Um there is this um there's a there's a there's a verse in the Bible that says in the multitude of counsel there is safety. So I'll say um there is safety of thought as well. You could it helps to put boundaries to thoughts to to um and most importantly, I think put perspective and gratitude, because gratitude is also a part of perspective. So yes, I would say my faith and my community um was a very big part of it.

SPEAKER_01 10:37

Okay, okay. Um, and so when you say community, um, you know, I heard you say like your friends. Um is community also, you know, like your partner, your husband, or you know, was it just like external, like external in terms of like outside of your own nuclear family? What was community like for you?

SPEAKER_02 11:00

So what you meant? Um of course, communities, my husband tops that um gant chat. Of course. Um, so my husband, of course, he's a phenomenal man. Um and he was extraordinary from the very beginning up till now and and continuing. Um, so of course, community, um friends as well, family as well. Um, and that is why immediate extended family as well, parents. So, yes, that's it's the typical, I guess, definition of community would say.

SPEAKER_01 11:39

Okay. Um, and I guess in terms of like healthcare, you know, um, are there ways that healthcare providers um kind of like impacted your pregnancy experience? Um, you know, as Africans living in in the US, uh especially um, you know, women, sometimes, you know, there are um differences in terms of like culture, the differences in terms of like, you know, what the expectation is. And so how did healthcare workers um impact your pregnancy experience here in the US?

SPEAKER_02 12:12

So prior to my pregnancy, I love to read, and I think I'd consider myself widely read, lasting read too. Uh so I was not ignorant to the um narrative behind a healthcare, especially um behind minority groups in the US. So maternal healthcare, especially child care for minorities, or childcare even generally, I had um learned about a few of that just by reading just by reading other people's experiences and just written generally or broadly about that subject. So I would say that I came into this season of my life pretty armed with knowledge, well equipped, well armed with knowledge, what to do. So there were certain things that I was very particular about, or that I for myself when it comes to looking for a doctor, looking for a hospital. I mean, we had to move. We really we really literally relocated from where we were to another location just because of hospital. So um I there are just some things that I was very particular about when it comes to who I wanted to receive treatment for, I wanted to receive care from, who wanted to be my own, and um the kind of hospitals I wanted, um, the facilities that they had and they didn't have, and um advocacy as well was very important. I had that conversation with my husband a whole lot about advocacy and just being on the same page when it comes to what we wanted and why we wanted what we wanted, and the ability to communicate that to our healthcare provider. So that whole experience with healthcare for me, I mean, it was two-sided, but like I said, the most important thing was just advocacy and being able to um know what you want, know what you wanted, and even if it's not going um your way to try to talk it out with the healthcare providers um and see what can be done about that. And sometimes they they just it's just especially if you got a really good one, sometimes they're really looking out for you. So um it was pretty good, it was overall good. Um, I think I'd kind of talked about the in-between about that, but overall, I would say just getting there with the right, well equipped with knowledge, well armed with knowledge, knowing what you wanted and knowing why you wanted what you wanted was very important. Um, and I can definitely see how that was extremely instrumental to the um to the pregnancy period and even afterwards, but especially during the pregnancy period for me.

SPEAKER_01 15:11

Okay. Yeah, I heard you say it was two-sided. What does that mean? And and you know, can you say a little bit more about what you mean by it was two-sided?

SPEAKER_02 15:20

So by two-sided, I mean anyway, they were part of the um, and and I'm I'm being careful what I'm saying, so it doesn't sound like um uh uh I um I am being um critical about any of my providers. But um there were just some parts of being two-sided was that there was this there were parts of probably the journey of the pregnancy with respect to you know your healthcare provider that you had some reservations about and had to talk it out, and some changes had to be made at any point. So that's what I mean by that's the other side or the in-between. And then there was the extremely good part, which thankfully dominated whatever uh moments of reservations that we had to kind of work around.

SPEAKER_01 16:09

Okay, thank you. Thank you for um shedding more light on that. Um at this point, I want us to, you know, move forward a little bit, right? The moment you held your baby boy in your arms, what did that feel like? You know, a lot of uh women say that um pregnancy is hard, you know, it's a very tough journey and all of these things, but the moment you hold that child in your arms, you forget everything. So did you forget everything? Or, you know, what was that experience like for you?

SPEAKER_02 16:41

That's funny. I would say I would say you forget everything in an instant, that is true. Um, and then you remember it because it could be any moment from now 24 hours or more, a couple of days, but you definitely remember it up to the end. But of course you forget it, um, especially if you've been pushing for long and you just want to just you know get that breakthrough and then get the breakthrough, and it it feels like you're in the galaxy, a different galaxy from moment. So, yes, you definitely forget it, but uh you definitely would remember it as well shortly after. What makes you remember it shortly after? Just the reality of it. I'll give you a short story. Um, I think it was the second, ninth after my son was born. My she's my first child, uh, was born, and he I had a conversation with my husband that ever everywhere the baby was going, and we're taking the baby, he had to go with the baby because of course I can't move um because I have all these machines and tubes tied to me. So I can't just move at will. So he had to be the one to whose mom, who was more but moments at that time. So everywhere the baby was going, he was going. And that was fine. I mean, we had talked about it with the hospital staff about um incidents, quote unquote incidents, and they had said, oh, you know, they'd never had any um troubling incidents on the over 30 years and blah, blah, blah. So of course we knew that okay, you know, we would take, we'd rely on their words. But um, we still just it was just what we wanted. And I think the second night, after we're having the first sleepless night and the sleepless day as well, just trying to care for the baby. The second or the night before we got discharged anyway. Um, I remember telling my husband, but I'm like, this is gonna be the nine, the last night we'll ever have a full night complete, no more lives, no more life sleep. So, you know what, we're gonna use the nursery. Because the nurse had come in and she was like, uh, do you do mind do you want me to, you know, watch over your baby where you sleep? It's been around a couple of days. And I was like, you know what, uh, yeah, but just hold on, let me check with my husband. So when my husband came in, I was like, you know, I think we really need this full night sleep because this is like the last night we'd ever have this kind of sleep in a very long time. So um, yes, she helped us, we got it, we saw it in the bill, and we were like, nursery in the bill wasn't free.

SPEAKER_01 19:25

Wait, so you thought you thought nursery was free, and they ended up charging you guys for nursery. Yeah, I would have assumed nursery. I thought it was just a honesty deal. Like, that is so interesting.

SPEAKER_02 19:38

Yeah, but um, we couldn't even bother because we really needed. I mean, I still sometimes relieve that night of sleep. That's how good it was. I knew it's like mourning a past life and knowing you're never gonna get that life again, at least in a very long time. So uh yeah, that's just an example, that's just this the story of what I mean by it comes at you real quick. So, yes, you forget, but then you also remember when when you get to the reality of it, because we knew that we're getting home to um disrupt that sleep for for and it's it's it's not the end was not in sight, so that that's that would definitely make you remember.

SPEAKER_01 20:21

Yeah, so it sounded like um you definitely you know took advantage of of the help where it was available, which I think is very smart. So yeah, uh, thank you for sharing that story with us. Um, and I hope that this encourages uh a new mom out there to take advantage of all the resources that are available to you, you know. If the if the nurses are willing to watch the baby for the first night or the second night, use it, take it up and and enjoy your sleep, you know. I know it's hard sometimes and it's easy to say, but hey, this is coming from a mom just like you, so trust other moms.

SPEAKER_00 20:53

This episode of Birthing Beyond Borders is funded by the 4W Initiative and supported by the African Center for Community Development. Please check out these two wonderful organizations. Details can be found in the description below.

SPEAKER_01 21:08

So I wanted to talk a little bit about, you know, the recovery process after childbirth. Um did you have support from like family and friends doing postpartum? You know, did they come stay with you? Um, what kind of support was available to you and your husband when you had the baby or when you went home with the baby?

SPEAKER_02 21:28

I would say, um, practically speaking, we did have some help. Well, I did have some help. I mean, um, and and I'm saying I because I consider my husband a very phenomenal help. Um, he had to take priority leave off um for a while. And that was extremely needed. Um, it helped us as a couple, he helped us as a family. Um, but it especially helped us as a couple. It was just a private time, I think we just needed. It might work differently for people, but I definitely need any help. So yes, um, that's that's the reason for saying I um had some help. And to speak as us now, we we let's say help outside of both of ourselves. I'd say we had we had we had help. I mean, I can't give mention all the help that we had just to kind of pretend. I don't know if they would like the people in question would would like me to talk about the help, but we did have some help. And again, my faith is very important and it's a very it's the lens at which a lot of um everything that I do um is comes from. I think God just sent us help at the right time. Because in hindsight, now I look at it, and it was exactly when we needed the help the most that the help came, came about. Um, so I would say yes, um, community did help, but did um contribute to um helping us. Um at least I'd say for the first six months, it wasn't consistent, like maybe we had someone live through with us back to back, but we definitely had help with childcare. That in a way that it helped to lift up the body, it wasn't something that ever made it seem like what have I done. So there was never the question of what have I done, or oh my god, it was this little now, there was never all of that. It was it was uh community was good, and um the entire experience was also good. Okay. Oh recovery, I think you mentioned recovery. Recovery was good as well because of just how happy, joyful that I felt after being discharged from the host, but I didn't realize how much and we had help. We had a family member um with us for a little while um after my son was born, but I just still felt like oh, I can't believe my body looks you know so good. It felt like I just knocked back like within 24 hours, and I was so happy about that. I was so happy about that. I was so I felt like my body could do anything, and I was very athletic too. That was not good enough for Epidural. I don't know, I never knew that, so I'll just put it out there. Anybody could do their research about that, and it's not to say I don't encourage um athleticism or being athletic, but it just it it wasn't um yeah, wasn't good for epidural. But um so I felt like my body could just do anything until my body broke down, and I think that affected me for a little while afterwards because I realized that oh my god, my body really cannot do what I thought it could do. What happened? And then I realized no, you shouldn't be thinking you can pull on the world right after childbirth. You should you should really just you know calm down. I didn't know that. So that was definitely something that I would say to um any young mom is to um really take care of your body, even if you feel like your body can do anything in the world right after childbirth, you should not push your body beyond the trauma you just went through. Should just just um take your time to just give your body the healing time that it needs. It helps a lot. You might not notice you might not realize it, but down the line, you it really pays off to see the the healing time right after childbirth that you're able to get really pays off down the line compared to when you just jump might just jump right out to it because it feels like your body can do it, but then you realize down the line that uh it's the um the side effect of that is realized down the line compared to when you really let your body take the healing time that it needed, at least for a couple of weeks right after childbirth. And then you also realize down the line that the side effect of paying attention to that healing your body really needed. Even if you don't feel like your body needs healing, your body really does need healing, you shouldn't be doing a lot of things um that that you're not you should treat your body like your body just came back from um a very major accident.

SPEAKER_01 26:34

That's that's that's really profound. And and if I can follow up on that, you know, I heard you say that you know you you you snapped you snapped back pretty quickly. And so you kind of felt like, well, you know, everything is good, you know, I can go about my life and until until you broke down. But what are the things that you, you know, looking back, what are the things that you think you could have done to take care of your body? You know, if you could do this over again, what are some things that you do instead of just like diving right back into like everyday life after having a baby?

SPEAKER_02 27:08

I would have used the help that I had more. Yes, I did not maximize, I optimized it, but I didn't maximize it. I did not maximize the help that I had because I did have help, and I must admit that I did have help, at least for the first few weeks, but I did not maximize it, and that was because I felt so good, and and I was so proud of my body, so yeah.

SPEAKER_01 27:40

Can you say a little bit more about that? Like, what are like examples of things that you know could have helped you maximize the help more?

SPEAKER_02 27:49

I would say um cooking. You said I was very yeah, cooking. I was very particular about my food. I had food aversion when I was pregnant. And um after the spatum, I just felt like okay, I think I should be able to eat anything I want. It didn't umber immediately, but I just felt like, oh, now I can um get back in the kitchen and do what I need to do. And my husband would be like, oh, it's okay, you don't have to do this. And I'll be like, I I need to cook, I need to do this the way I want it to be done. But I shouldn't have done that, you know, just in hindsight. I should have just really been a couch potato and just take care of my baby. So, yes, it's it's just that's also a part of me that I guess, and I maybe it's also the mom part, I don't know, but it's also a part of me that I guess that um is um sometimes is has an automatic response, rejection to help.

SPEAKER_01 28:59

That's that's really deep, um, Elizabeth. Um, and I think, you know, something that just like came to me as you were talking is women giving themselves permission to just rest, you know, um, and accept help, you know, when it's offered. Um and I think that that's something a lot of immigrants um maybe struggle with, you know, you're just so used to like the hustle, you know, you you just you have to find your way, you have to navigate all of these challenging things and like that, just you just keep going. And then sometimes when we are offered help, for us it's like, um, I'm good, thanks. I I I can figure this out on my own. And so just like little things like just accepting somebody making you a meal and not choosing to cook for yourself, you know, it could definitely go a long way, especially during the recovery period. So thank you so much for calling that out, Elizabeth. Um, I'm gonna talk a little bit more about, you know, um emotional support, specifically mental health. Um, like you said, having a baby is a medical trauma. And and, you know, sometimes people with help cope a little bit better than those that don't have help. And even sometimes when people have help, it's always sometimes challenging to accept that help. Um, and um, I just wanted to chat a little bit about, you know, how you felt emotionally and mentally after having the baby. What was what was the first six months, three months? What was that period like mentally and emotionally for you as a new mom and a first-time mom adapt?

SPEAKER_02 30:30

That's a very thorough question. Um it was, I had other for me. I would say, um, let me let me let me let me try to free it from a from the perspective or um what part of the recovery surprised me the most. We've talked about the physical part, um, which was that it was it felt instant, but it was it it really down the line I got to realize that um the papers are right. Whatever you read online that you need to take time to recover, it's right. You need to take time to recover it. It's it's your recovery is right feel no matter how much it feels instant, it really is not instant. So yeah, we've talked about the physical part and the emotional part as well. Um I'll say what surprised me the most, and I know this this varies significantly from women to women, but for me, I'd say what surprised me the most um what part of recovery surprised me the most emotionally, mentally um was the think about that a little bit more.

SPEAKER_03 31:56

That's fine.

SPEAKER_02 32:04

Okay, I'd say it it's the most surprising part for me the most was it takes for me at least, it took me a while to realize I was in mom. Yes, I can. Um it just didn't sink in immediately. I think it's I'd say it sank in a couple months later to realize, oh, I'm actually mom. Um of course there was the baby I was um weed almost every day, every day. Um but still it it uh the and and it's because this is not a part where we can easily see it's not physical.

SPEAKER_05 32:46

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 32:47

Uh the emotional, mental it the clock, it just it it did not click the um re the full realization of it that you know where you I feel like where you just enter into that um motherhood um cap or outfit. Let me say outfits and I'll say cop because you can still uh wear a motherhood cap even if um you're not a mom yet, and I mean like biologically. Um I would say just that um it's it's the person a oh this is my child. I'd say it didn't kick in immediately. It's now it can be like, oh yeah, that's myself. But initially it was it just did not kick in. I'm trying to find the the best words or the right words to describe what that really means, but it just it just didn't kick in. It just didn't I just didn't kick in because it's more like you've seen yourself as well I can be better walking baby girl for so long, and then now it's like oh your baby girl has a baby boy. And you're trying to know how to you know make one lesser and make one more make one more because I mean you're you're a baby girl, but you're also not a baby girl, you know, you're a full-blown adult. And yeah, you have a baby boy to take care of, and you're not also a your mom. It's like think think about it from the perspective of your mom. Your mom, you know, is like knows that she has a daughter that's you somewhere, and she's been a mom for as long as she could remember at the moment. And um, so there's no question about, oh, that's my mom. Oh, I need to call my mom, or your mom being like, oh, I need to check on my daughter. But um when you've been it just someone's daughter for so long, and you've seen yourself as the daughter that needs to refer to the mom of the parent, and now you're now that parent. It took just it took a while to let to sink in. Not a while, I would say a couple of months, but it did take a bit to sink in. Um, and it wasn't like it was a big deal, it just it wasn't anything about being emotionally traumatized or anything like that. It was just oh, mom. It was just like that. And and and um go ahead.

SPEAKER_01 35:31

Oh, I was just gonna say, do you know why it took a couple months for that to sink in?

SPEAKER_02 35:36

I would say I guess the most important thing that other good has taught me is just to be present, to smell the roses, go out there and smell the roses, go out there and you know, be present. Um attention, I like to say, consumes presence. To be able to pay around attention to something, you get a present. And I'm always someone that experiences I've lived, I live an experience before it happens. So when it happens, I don't and it it I'd say it comes from a core value of not um of holding success lightly. So to kind of build perspective to that, I would say this uncertainty of life has humbled me as a person. I'm taking this back to a value to my value systems. The uncertainty of life has humbled me um personally, and just a moment. I don't want to forget my thoughts. The uncertainty of life has humbled me personally, and what I mean by that is the fact that you can have one day to be full, and the next day can just be empty. Well, to take it back to the analogy of you know, there's in the Bible, there's the analogy of seven thing cows in the Bible and the borrowing seven fat cows. That was the interpretation of Joseph's dream to Pharaoh. Um, and so it's like there could be seven fat years, very beautiful, abundant years, life is beautiful, life is lovely and perfect, and then there are years after that that subliminally just you know eat up those very beautiful years. And it looks like it looks like wow, your life doesn't even look anything like it once had this level of privilege, of beauty, your perfection. So, you know, that reality sort of has, you know, it sharpens you, but most importantly, it has taught taught me to hold on to success lightly and hold on to people tightly. So, and that gets you to become more intentional about what really matters, you which again is tied to what we've talked about earlier on call values, things that matter to you. So basically, to define the things that matter to you, decide how how much you want to show up for those things and to to to define the level of priority you want to give to them, how much if every day, every time, every two days, every other day that you want to show up for those things. So um, I I measure my days more by let me say, my alignment than more than by achievements. Because I I'm trying to better explain what I mean by hooding success lightly. So it doesn't mean like some like a mediocre. I don't know. That's not what I mean. What I mean is I measure my days more by alignment, you know, how much more I'm aligned to the things that matter to me most and how much more I'm working. So it's more like it's like in the pursuits to becoming that's like an asymptote of perfection that you're constantly, you know, going after. So I don't so measure my days by alignment, not by achievement, and keeping my the things that matter to me at the top of that um list. So that sort of is what on the bell is what I mean by, you know, I mostly leave, you know, prior or before out, literally have experienced the thing before it happened. That's because there's so much thought, there's so much time and energy, and it's just so much of thought process and a lot more in between that has gone into whatever phase that I am before I get into it. So when I get into it, it's like, oh, it's a success, but I don't spend a lot of time. I try to give myself 24 to 48 hours to celebrate, you know, a big, a big win or success, and then I just move on to the next thing. But motherhood, the bed of a child, is a very big one, and you can't do that. No matter how much, you know, I try to be like, oh, what next? It's like it was it's like a battle of the mind to try to be like, no, there's nothing next. At least that's that's what you're gonna choose to tell yourself to there's nothing next. You gotta be present and you have to see this. Um so I think I would say that was a and there could be more that I'm not remembering at the moment, and I can't, but to the best that I can try to connect the dots, I'd say that played a major role in that brief gap of um seeing myself as my son's mom. Well, maybe not as a mom, but as my son's mom. It's like, oh, it's just um learning to live in the present. Like, oh, this is it, at least for that very sensitive period. Um, yeah. So yes, that's it.

SPEAKER_01 40:59

Yeah. Thank you for for first admitting that and and just like talking about like your thought process um around around it. And you know, um, and I think it comes back to, you know, as an immigrant, there's always like that, like we have this hustle culture. We're always chasing the next thing, you know, you get a master's degree, okay, let's get a PhD. Now you have a PhD, let's get that dream job, let's buy the house. Like, you know, there's always one thing. And then when you have a kid, you kind of slow down a little bit. And it's like you cannot, like, you can't do all this next thing, next thing, next thing. You have to, like you said, take it in and smell the roses and be present for that moment. And sometimes, you know, that can be like a really hard realization for um people that you know are very much used to like being super ambitious and just like chasing one thing after the other. And then just that realization of whoa, I have to slow down. Now I have to be present for this kid can be very um, can be such a huge change. So thank you for for um admitting that and talking a little bit about it as well. Um, you know, over the past of over the over our conversation, um, I've heard you talk about like religion and your faith. And um I'm curious to know what role has religion played in your mental well-being um during the recovery process since being a mom.

SPEAKER_04 42:31

That's a very important question.

SPEAKER_02 42:33

I'd say faith. I'll call it more faith than religion because I see faith more as an interpersonal relationship. It's like a it's I say it more as an intimacy walk. Um more more than a structural um routine or things of list of things to do. Of course, intimate the intimacy walk produces uh routines and things that you need to do. Um go to church, maybe, for example. But that is that is an offset of the fa of the intimacy walk. It's not all it's not all by itself. So that's why I just want to make that sort of distinction. Um what role did faith play in my um in in all of this, in my recovery. It it it played it it played a very significant role in and of itself. Um recovery was just recovery. Recovery was just recovery. I saw it at I saw it. It's more as a continuation of just the day-to-day things that you do. Of course, you're busier, you are you have more things to do than you than you would in your ordinary days. You have um more, you have less sleep as well to reboot and recharge than you would in your ordinary day. And you probably don't have the time to do the things that you know you probably would have been able to fit into your day as you would, especially um when the baby's very young. I mean, less than six months when they're still adjusting to a routine, they're still adjusting to a full night's sleep, for example. So um the aspect of faith coming in is just sometimes finding peace in the midst of all of that. So in the midst of the storm that comes with the season, the business, just still uh staying anchored. Otherwise, you just you might be prone to anxiety. So just staying anchored in that you it's making sure even if the house is clean and quiet inside of you, inside of your temple, inside of your own house, is just as clean and quiet as it is on the outside. And um it is in that way that when you are when your cup is full, you can be able to pour. And it's sometimes it's okay to acknowledge what I'm gonna say this more as a forward-facing counsel word for new moms. It's okay to give so much to your baby just because of how very delicate the season is. It's okay to give so much more to your baby that you don't have that to your cup just gets empty because you're just giving so much. The baby needs you more, the baby cannot do anything. It's very dependent on you, at least for the first year or two of their lives. But and it's okay to feel like, oh, I'm just pouring into this, you know, new human, and there's nothing filling up my cup. That's why you have, you know, if the if that is the case, a partner, a husband, um, it's okay to have a way to refill your cup because you know, the saying that goes you can't pour from an empty cup is really true. And moms sometimes are prone to having an empty cup. So there has to be that regulation on the inside to always make sure that your child gets the best of you. It's really the best of you that they want. And sometimes there might be compromise. A lot life is life is a is a race of constantly making trade-offs, anyway. Sometimes there might be trade-offs. The trade-offs might be something about your schedule, the trade-off might be having the perfectly clean house that you want. The trade-off can be getting your nails groomed, you know, just you're grooming, you're getting your nails done, you know, your hair. There's the things you do for yourself. There has to be that trade-off sometimes, and you know, learning to manage that new schedule of life, adjust to all into motherhood and how you define your motherhood to be um for yourself. Um and um, but most importantly, making sure that it is the best of you that your child is always getting. And that means um finding that regulation, finding that um way to keep pouring into yourself, um, having that couple's time as well, to take time out of just parenting and reconnecting, because that's also I think that's also very important. Um, and just however your community, your faith-based community, if that is what you have, you know, can give to you. Just finding that, you know, way. So I'd say that that I'd answer that as being very pertinent with respect to um the role that I think faith please. Um the peace, um, refilling the cup in order to give out appropriately again and again and again. Right. It's very important.

SPEAKER_01 48:27

Yeah, so it sounds like for you, it's you know, as a mom, you're pouring out a lot to your child, to your husband. Yes, right. Your faith helps you to refill that cup that you're pouring from.

SPEAKER_02 48:40

A major group, yes.

SPEAKER_01 48:42

Okay, okay. Um, so very quickly, I want to go to my last section because she kind of answered some of the other questions that I had regarding, you know, advice for like new moms and like, you know, a bit of a reflection on like things that you would think the new mom should do. So I want to talk a bit about the resources um that you found to be helpful during this um pregnancy and postpartum journey. Um, I guess in terms of like, you know, um community organization or like you said, faith spaces or just like birthing classes, what what kind of resources were helpful for you? And how did you find out about these resources?

SPEAKER_02 49:28

It was my community. And this kind of ties back to the start of this podcast where I mentioned why this was extremely important and how it's you know, I mentioned that it actually ties down to almost everything you're gonna talk about. Um, and books. I have struggled with, I'd love to read it, read almost 30, 40 more books every year, but I've struggled to read it to keep up to that pace in a couple of years just because of PhD is so much, so much going on. Um, I'm very surprised that it is when I happen to be the most busiest ever, ever in my life that I've read the most books, and the year is not even over. So it is books. I I fell in love with reading books again. I've always loved reading books, but just PhD makes you read so much books, you don't have time to read the other books you like to read. So I have happened to go back to reading again, and it's made me sometimes I just get so overwhelmed that I speak up a book and just read. I just finished reading um this newly released book by Femia Tedalera, making it beak. And it's quite a big book, and you wonder why I should have where I have the time to finish that book.

SPEAKER_01 50:53

So it's like doing the things that you find um like doing the things that you enjoy. Because at first, when I heard you say reading books, I thought you were referring to like reading books about motherhood and things like that, but I'm getting this right. So it's it's actually like doing your hobby, like finding time to actually read books that you you know that you find inspiring or things that you enjoy reading about.

SPEAKER_02 51:17

Absolutely, it's just yes, that is exactly what it is, what I mean. Yes, okay, it's good you made that distinction because that's that was very good catch. Yeah, so I enjoy reading books, so yes, I enjoy reading a whole lot. So yes, when I'm overwhelmed, I pick up the book. When I feel like my son is wants me and he doesn't want me to do anything else, I pick up the book. When I just feel like, okay, I'm blank, um, I've just been studying long, I've been on this paper, I've been on my research, I pick up the book. And I need a break, I pick up the book. So, yes, that's what I mean by that. And if I'm not doing that, I am sleeping, because sleep is quite a scarce commodity right now in my life. So um sleeping, that's very, very um important to me. That's not really community focus. So I can say, oh, go and get sleep, you can order it somewhere. No, it's just something that's that's not necessarily um, yeah, something I can say go and get. Um, community again. So having the right number people have that you can just, you know, sometimes call and just check up on them and then just have belly laughs about um anything and everything, and just sleep the call better than the way you started before the call. So it's it's just an everyday moment, um, and season the time that makes you realize just that the moments that matter the most sometimes are in the simple moments. So, yes, I'll say it's nothing spectacular, it's all just tied to the simple moment.

SPEAKER_01 52:59

Okay. In terms of like resources and um support from the healthcare centers, you know, for some people they have doors, for some people they have um birthing classes, some people have um, you know, like resources at the hospital where they talk about like lactation consultants and things like that. Did you use any of these resources during your pregnancy or perinatal journey?

SPEAKER_04 53:29

Any thing. I don't think I do.

SPEAKER_01 53:39

Okay, and and that's you know, that's absolutely okay. You know, for some people, some people tend to use the more formal um resources, some people use the informal ones, like you said, like your community, um focusing on hobby, um, sleeping. So those are like, you know, other things that you know some moms find to be most helpful. Um, and you know, that takes me to my next question. In terms of, you know, just looking back, um, are there resources that you think could have been helpful for you that you probably didn't have access to or that you didn't know about?

SPEAKER_02 54:12

It was certainly let me piggyback because I just remember the resource that I that I took advantage of um for the good. It was so my insurance offers this free um perennial classes where they just teach you, they have the Zoom classes about different subjects. Now I can't remember Mr., but just different subjects about childbirth. I was more interested in the recent classes of courses about childbirth, um, lactation, etc., and everything that surrounds the third trimester and everything and all that. So I did attend all of those classes, it was all online. So yes, I I just remember that I did, I did attend those classes. It wasn't through the hospital I guess that because I that's why I didn't really um think about that outrightly. There was a resource I probably could have utilized, and that was the lactation um resource. But I I just I found out about it late and I was still within the window at which I could qualify for it, but then I just didn't have the time. I just didn't have the time. And I mean it it all worked out well anyway. Um, so uh, but it was definitely a resource that if I had the time and probably the um if I had researched a little more about it prior, if you know, I've had prior to when I needed it, it I would have definitely utilized it. So that is definitely one that I felt like yes, I could have utilized. But the classes um online, check with your insurance. Is this something I would give to new moms as well? Expecting moms, check with insurance while you're pregnant or before you're pregnant to explore those classes, they were invaluable. I I really appreciated because I learned a couple of things that were very instrumental down the line for those classes when I had my baby at all as well. There were some play date, it was online. Oh, really? And yes, and it was fun, it was cool. I did it for a few, I did it for a few times. Um, you just find other kids that are there. You can turn on your video if you want. Um, and if you don't want, you just you might not, you know, you can choose not to turn it. There's a teacher that is leading the date, and then there are other kids that are doing the same thing that you're doing, uh, that the teacher is doing with the dummy baby, and um, it's just fun. And then you can get into breakout rooms where you like have the other kids play if you want. So there was that, and I it was good for a while. And um, the your your library might also be offering free resources for babies, infants, and toddlers for different age groups. You can check with that as well, um, and see if it's something that you want to just introduce your baby to. Sometimes it could even be the water park. Your local civic center might be having a play, uh just a foreign activity at the water park. You can take your kids to, I mean, of course, an infant, maybe not. A toddler, maybe. So these were just resources that I had explored. Um, I didn't use all of it, but you know, but um the weird the ones that I used, I found very I found it very invaluable. So yeah, um, I think that's all I can think of.

SPEAKER_01 57:45

Okay. Um, you know, as you were talking, I also just remembered that um, you know, I've spoken to some moms who said that they got free breast pump from through their insurance, you know. And I think sometimes um a lot of new moms, especially immigrant moms, don't know about these resources. So I think it's like you said, just reach out to your insurance company um and ask them, you know, for the resources or options that are available. I didn't know that there were online mommy and baby classes. So, you know, I'm glad that you mentioned that and hopefully somebody listening to this can um utilize that as well. Um so we're moving towards the end of this episode, and I want to touch a little bit on um, you know, just the overall perinital journey, you know, from getting pregnant to, you know, having the baby, and then after you have the baby and all of those things, um, is there anything you would have done differently? And you know, differently in terms of, you know, um, like you've talked about some of the resources that you use that you probably should have used if you had known about them a little bit earlier, but just generally, are there anything you would have done differently?

SPEAKER_02 58:57

In terms of resources, I would say no. I'd say no. I because again, like I said, I came in through this season or this phase very armed with knowledge. So I knew I might not have really known when the knowledge was gonna come into being. And that kind of would lead to the second thing I'm gonna talk about. But I I I I came into this season, this phase, this motherhood pregnancy, very, very prepared, very armed with knowledge um about what's about everything that it takes. I'd also um had the privilege, I'd consider it a great privilege to be able to work with kids and um of all ages. That's yeah, I've worked with kids from zero to eight. Very instrumental because it definitely comes in handy and it came in handy as as well. So um I would say I there was nothing that I think I'll do differently because the there are just some things that I just find myself just doing. I, you know, that you wouldn't really think that you would probably have anticipated or known to do, but you just find yourself doing it or just knowing what to do. That leads to the second thing that I want to say, which is all tied to um to my which is all tied to where I am because I consider this it it an entirely different season um of life, and which is the thread. So if I were to if I were to run a thread through my life story, I would say um there were things from my background, there were things from my background, of course. I'm a deeply reflective person um that I have sat down to think about. I'm like, okay, this is you know, what were the things that I've been privileged to have, to learn, to be exposed to family and all of that that I can say is a very useful tool for where I am now, where I'm where I can where I'm going to, where I'm preparing to get to my life. So all of that is actually all connected. And the values, my value systems, the value systems I grew up with, loved, I always there's love at home, thankfully. Um faith, character, um, living, being an immigrant living in the United States, um, did not change those values. It instead revealed them. And even the perception of uncertainty that I talked about earlier on uh the uncertainty of life, it actually I see it as an opportunity instead of more as a um as a weakness, though just a it's not a it's a weakness of life or just a side bad sad thing about life. It's actually an opportunity because uncertainty actually helped me clarify my priorities, and all of that joined together has made as sort of slid into my motherhood experience because motherhood is actually where I practice all of those daily. So, no regrets, it's nothing I think I could have done better. I think everything altogether that learns that I've learned, that I'm still learning, that I've been through, that my entire process of being in the US, like I said, my living in the United States didn't change my values. It instead revealed them and it made me realize how very grounded um the level of grounding that I'm thankful that I grew up with. Um, and um how each and every one of those things um are being practiced in motherhood daily.

SPEAKER_01 1:02:59

Yeah, thank you. Thank you for um for for you know talking about you know your experience one with the resources and also just like how your upbringing and your background kind of like showed up, you know, in this motherhood journey. Um my last question is uh for healthcare workers and you know, Mathana and child health organizations that are providing services to African immigrant mothers specifically, what message would you like to give to them in terms of like providing care to mothers like yourself?

SPEAKER_02 1:03:37

Are you talking about hospitals or just um birth centers?

SPEAKER_01 1:03:41

Hospitals, birth centers, NGOs, CBOs, just organizations that provide care or services to African immigrant mothers or pregnant women.

SPEAKER_02 1:03:56

That's really hard because I'm not to be very honest, as much as I read a lot about what is out there, I only read about the experiences of what actually happens. I don't know the ex I don't know the individual. Um I don't think I'm I am well I am learned in with respect to the individual or the aggregate individual experiences of um women prior to motherhood. Yes, so I I and I'm sure that might also tremendously vary. So it's hard for me to say, oh, this is what you should do, this is what I think should be done better, this is what I think could not be done better. Um, if you know what I mean. Um but and I and I I know I can't use my own personal life experience as a one size fit-all, because again, value systems vary. Um my interest, I I can't also mistake um interest for values. Um, we might all be mothers, we might have similar interests, but our brother systems are not, you know, do not have the same grounding or similarity. So I also cannot use myself as a one-size-fit or I can't use my experience to give a recommendation. But one thing I would say that I think would apply to anyone, everyone, regardless, would be um just um the availability of community and the because I think that is something that that um we all, you know, most immigrants I'd say grew up with. Then you come into the United States, you start your own family, and it feels like you don't have that anymore. And when I mean community, community probably not necessarily in the way that I have defined mine, you know what I mean by community, my, you know, which is respect to having a neighbor that you can rely on, having a neighbor you can keep your kids with. to work, um, having other kids that you can play with. You would have to live in a very um you would have to live in a community most likely with similar tribe, similar um backgrounds, similar kinds of people to have that. And you and even at that you would still have to be very proactive and very careful, very mother hand, um, over your kids with respect to that community. And that's just where we are today. So and people, and I mean I've read about that, I've thought about that, I've done my own research about that, and I've seen that there's also the other side of that. So it's really hard to say that this is what should be done or this and or this is how community should be because there have been arguments about all of that you know being just people taking advantage of you know of um other people because I mean let's not get into all that philosophy. But however way you know people want to define the presence or absence of community I've read arguments about that. And that's why I am at a point where I do not have I'd be honest to say I do not have enough knowledge to say that I can make a recommendation about it yet. It's still very it to me I still see it from a very just from my own lens. It's a very individual um individually tailored lens at the moment. So community is important I'd say organizations should try as much as possible to provide it for those that probably are less privileged than because we are we are all privileged we just it's varied that are less privileged than others with respect to probably care and means maybe care might be a priority but for those that probably have that and are less privileged in terms of community community so it also depends on the goal and focus of the hospital of the organization with respect to postpartum care. So community is just still the biggest part of what I'm talking about. Community and um based on the environment based on the community based on the aggregate of um the the aggregate um needs of women in that environment a particular environment that the organization birth center hospital services are in I'd say to take an all of what is the aggregate's most important needs of mothers new moms or mothers generally new moms especially in that environment and see how to um um build or create resources that are tailor made for um that can best serve the women in that environment so again for me I would say there would be community there's this app peanuts um where you can find mothers and then you can also you know organize physical in-person play day to just get to know meet other mothers in the community that might be something that the hospital does like I said the life the local library does something like that as well. That can be something that a local NGO does it just I'd say it depends on the you know the community the environment the environment rather and um what is most important to most women the average women or mom in that environment.

SPEAKER_01 1:09:37

That was a long rambling and no that does make sense um like you said um it depends on the need um of the women in the community um I think for and again it depends on you know where these women are from um we talk quite a lot about like community and like apps like peanut where you can meet other moms and and network and just build your communities like that. I think for some women that's absolutely what they need. For some other people what they need is um information about things like um get where can I get a baby car seat where can I get a breast bump where can I get um food you know to how do I know what kind of food to give my baby at six months. So I think like you said it depends on you know the need of the community. So thank you for um pointing that out um that's my last question. I just want to say thank you so much Elizabeth for taking the time to chat with me today and for sharing your experience and your journey with us on the podcast. So thank you so much once again and I really look forward to you know continuing to follow up on your journey and um yeah just just sharing with our brother community thank you once again.

SPEAKER_02 1:10:53

You're very welcome thank you for having me. It's been a pleasure to unwrap um this conversation I'm glad that um you're doing this I'm glad that there is this resources that has been made available for maternal health. So thank you too and thank you for having me once again.

SPEAKER_01 1:11:12

You're very welcome thank you so much for joining us on this episode of Birthing Beyond Borders. I hope you've learned something new or felt thin in today's conversation. If you're a mom listening today know that you're doing an incredible job and as a community we are so proud of you. Please share this episode with another mom or with a friend who might find it helpful. Remember you're not alone and you don't need permission to do the things that bring you joy. I'm rooting for you. Goodbye