John Slevin: Discipline Over Comfort | Why Success might demands Internal War

The man I’ve built with, grown with, and had some of the deepest conversations of my life with, John Slevin, reveals what it really means to think critically in a world that rewards conformity, why displacement can be your greatest advantage, and how intention shapes the person you become.

John is a sharp, disciplined, and deeply reflective thinker. In this conversation, we explore the uncomfortable questions most people avoid — about success, morality, and the cost of awareness.

He explains:

◼️Why critical thinking can isolate you — and why that’s a strength
◼️How being “displaced” forces growth most people never experience
◼️The difference between chasing success and building character
◼️How intention quietly determines the trajectory of your life
◼️Why virtue matters more than achievement

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:02

I'm gonna steal 30 seconds of your time. The search for success is built around honest conversations for young adults who want to think beyond surface level definitions of success. In a world shaped by pressure, comparison, and constant change, this podcast will focus on the real questions and the real answers. Each episode will explore different themes like ambition, anxiety, failure, and growth through conversations with guests and questions submitted by you guys. I will be talking to a diverse group of individuals in different fields, theological experts, politicians, people in finance and health industries, and many more. So please, if you enjoy this, send it to a couple friends and thank you. Welcome to the search for success. In a culture that measures success by money, followers, status, and attention, this podcast asks a deeper question. What does success actually mean? Today's episode is personal. I'm sitting down with someone I've built with, struggled with, I've grown with, my close friend and co-founder of Astrosoft, John Slevin. John is 17 years old, he's driven, disciplined, bold, and extremely intelligent. But more than that, John loves adversity. He's faced it and he's moved through it. John says he's chasing progress. Today we're gonna define what that means. We're gonna talk about identity, adversity, entrepreneurship, faith, discipline, and security, and what success looks like when no one is watching. John, welcome to the search for success. Thank you for coming. Thank you for having me. I really appreciate the opportunity. Of course, of course. I'm gonna start off with to understand you, we need to look uh back back to old John, back to Kid John. How how do you think that you were misunderstood as a kid? And how has that shaped you into the person you are now almost moving into your adult life?

SPEAKER_01 2:02

Yeah, that's a great question. Um so I always kind of like knew I was different, um, sort of when from kindergarten basically. Um, and that was that kind of just stemmed from being ahead of people in terms of like intelligence. I would always have to kind of do my math um separately from the class when they were learning. I would be like on the iPad doing math. Um, or during reading time, I would actually be in the principal's office reading at uh ninth grade level as a kindergartner. So um I already kind of from there felt that I was different. Um and then kind of went to uh I went to Denver, did some did some IQ testing um and some other things like that, and they recommended I should skip two grades. Um, and the school I was at um said that they could like kind of challenge me enough. And so they were like, we're only gonna skip you one grade and we'll be able to challenge you. Um and so um I'm very grateful for that for sure, because that's that's where all my friends are right now, especially you, especially kind of everyone. Um, but yeah, it was definitely difficult kind of like starting out then um being young in a brand new class. Um it's kind of been difficult throughout high school just being like kind of younger than everybody. Um, but I also see it as an advantage. And um, if I want to like go take a gap year, I also kind of see that as a positive that I can kind of go into that being young and having that kind of advantage, and then potentially starting like college as an adult or where like my peers are starting right now. That makes sense.

SPEAKER_00 3:38

When you were a kid, I mean I was in the same class as you back at VMS, which is a small private school in East Vale, and I mean, just from like being an observer and your kind of growth as a person, um one, it's extraordinary. And two, I mean, I I remember like we, you and I, we did not jive. And I remember that there was some reasons on why that was that was the case, and I think that I think that and I don't want to put words in your mouth, but being maybe at a higher intelligence than the people around you, but still being younger was kind of this weird kind of oxymoron that you kind of had to go through. So how did you kind of move through that and what challenges presented itself from that oxymoron?

SPEAKER_01 4:25

Yeah, well, that's another good question. I think like it was tough, obviously being younger. Um, and even even when I was a grade ahead, like I still like find it, found it hard for myself to really be challenged, like in school. And so I would kind of I would kind of act out. Um and and like I was kind of like known as a troublemaker, I'm gonna be honest. Um, and that was difficult because um that kind of translated to a lot of like kids and their parents, not really the kids, but their parents like not really trusting me or wanting like their kid to hang out around me, um, which was which was definitely difficult. Um and yeah, I don't know. I didn't I didn't fully feel like I kind of fit in at VMS. I definitely had some good friends. Um, and then in middle school, seventh grade, um, instead of like doing the normal kind of curriculum in school, I did learning above and beyond, which is basically like a a self-paced kind of um classroom structure where you kind of like learn at your own pace and you get to explore like kind of projects that you want. Um and that kind of that kind of fueled the um I kind of like started the entrepreneurial spark in me kind of early. Um I remember I opened a Shopify drop shipping store um in that class. And yeah, we were just working out the basement. But um it was definitely tough because like I wasn't with the friends that I have now for that whole year. Um I was kind of with some like different kids who weren't like the best influences, um, but it was also a really kind of cool and eye-opening kind of experience and way to learn, I think.

SPEAKER_00 6:01

And at a at an early age, you had to learn how to work with people that were different from you, to work with people who are similar to you. Um do you think that that was a big, a big component to kind of your ability to work with people who are 30 years older than you, people who are younger than you, um, and also your people like myself, like-minded individuals. Um Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 6:25

Yeah, I think definitely. Like um, it was it didn't so like do a lot for the kind of like social aspect, um, but in terms of in terms of kind of seeing seeing like the real world a little bit, not like actually, but kind of seeing different ways that you can learn instead of like being like in a set place from this time to this time, and then you're going on to the next like subject, you're able to like kind of explore like your passions and figure out what you wanted to do. Um and I think that definitely fueled um like some some drive there and like the the desire to like have those connections and and yeah.

SPEAKER_00 7:06

And um when you now moving forward a little bit out of middle school, kind of getting into high school, uh you stopped attending VMS in seventh grade, correct? Um, and now you're a you're a ninth grader at Battle Mountain. What was that transition for you like from middle school to high school um with trying to battling you know social stuff along with you know battling kind of your mind and making sure that you were starting to get into a place where you were happy to be?

SPEAKER_01 7:36

Yeah, that's a good question as well. Um and I think prior to like me leaving VMS, I think I like I kind of went through some mental stuff um in COVID and whatnot. What? If you don't just like I don't know, I was just feeling like really depressed, and I feel like everyone was, um, but like I was just like kind of really in my head and didn't like have a lot of control of my emotions. Um and trying to get through that period like definitely taught me some like mental resilience. Um but moving forward, like after that seventh grade year, I did eighth grade at uh Berry Creek Middle, which was uh which was a big exposure to diversity as compared to VMS. Um I wasn't like there weren't many kids that looked like me or acted like me or talked like me. Um and so I really, really struggled there. That was like definitely one of the hardest years of my life um because I didn't know anyone. Like I was kind of my only friend for a little bit, um, just trying to like figure out myself. Um and then going to high school, I think that was like it was a rough transition, um, especially because my brother Sawyer, he um he kind of he left my our household for like a year um working with like some mental stuff as well. So um that kind of played a played a role in it, but it was it was tough because there was a lot of exposure at a at a public high school. And so it's like it's easy to fall into like kind of um distractions and wasting time um and spending time with the wrong people. Um, however, it was positive that I was able to kind of foster more connections um from sort of then on just by being at the school um and interacting by people with with people there um and also maybe closer to to the boys at VMS um like you and all the other ones that we have that we love.

SPEAKER_00 9:27

You talked about that isolation with your brother leaving, you leaving VMS, which was kind of your your safe haven for some time, and moving to a school that you know you didn't even know the boys at Battle Mountain because they were at um ECCA, the charter school we have here. And so what did that what did that isolation teach you? Because I know so many kids, and there's so many kids our age who are so afraid of being alone, yeah, they can't do it. They they have to be, you know, distracted by something or someone, which could inevitably be unbelievably uh unhealthy. But you learning that at seventh, eighth grade was, I mean, I can assume to be monumental. Yeah. So how did you um how did you deal with that isolation?

SPEAKER_01 10:10

Yeah, so um similarly to like the VMS page, I wasn't challenged the most. And I didn't, I honestly like didn't like put in the effort to get the best grades because like I just kind of didn't care that much to be honest. Um and I I was just like I was pretty I was pretty upset for like a lot of the time in the beginning of it. Um because I would just like butt head with teachers, with kids there, um, because like I was different than them and I was obviously younger. I was only what like 12 um that that year. So that was definitely interesting. Um, but in terms of like the isolation, I really kind of struggled a while with it um for a couple months in eighth grade, and then towards the end of that first semester, I um I started getting to the gym, which was a really like profound, um, profound like change in my life. Totally. Um and I just became like consistent with it. Um and I kind of like found found my peace and um kind of I kind of looked at it as an output um or outlet is what I meant. So um just being able to like kind of channel my emotions and like kind of like what I was going through in the gym and it translated, and I I just like found something that I really wanted to work hard for and towards. And so I think that like kind of laid a laid a foundation for like how I want to go about things going forward in my life, right? Like just kind of taking them with a similar intensity.

SPEAKER_00 11:39

Yeah. I think before we move on to the next topic, I want to talk about um the internal pressure that you put on yourself in in moments where no one's listening or watching, I want to understand what what goes through your head in those, you know, those long nights um where you feel this immense amount of pressure because you're being you're so young compared to the people in our grade. Uh there has to be pressure that comes with that. And then also, you know, I know you and I know we're gonna get into it, but your entrepreneurial spirit, you know, the pressure comes with that as well. So this built-up pressure, how do you deal with it? And um and when do you see it kind of arise?

SPEAKER_01 12:16

Yeah. Um I I definitely, so I don't know if people watching probably don't know this, some do. Um, but I have like level one autism. And so like I'm I'm kind of wired to to think a little differently than people. Um, and so in like social situations by themselves, um, I like I kind of overthink a lot there. And then I kind of just overthink a lot in general. Um, it's definitely like uh suppressed when I'm like with a lot of people or or when I'm really busy, but when it comes to like nighttime and I'm just like kind of by myself in my head, um thoughts definitely race and especially with pressure. Um and so in terms of dealing with that, I think one, the gym was very helpful, um, just like kind of to release the the healthy like brain chemicals that you get from it um and to kind of like push your body towards something, it's very, it's very um, I think it's very healthy for me. And then also just like kind of being able to reflect, right? So like if if I'm thinking about something too much, just think like, why are you thinking about this? Like, what can you really do about this? Um, and and if you can't do anything, then like why are you worried about thinking, like, why are you thinking about it so much? And if you can, like, then sit down and like write write an action plan or or kind of describe the problem in detail so you can better understand it instead of just like taking yourself like through all these different like thought loops, if that makes sense.

SPEAKER_00 13:40

So like the self-reflection piece is huge for you to be able to understand, you know, your desires and your adversions. Yeah. That's great. To finish it off with this topic, I want uh I want you to tell the audience what's one piece of advice that you would give to someone specifically who thinks they think differently, someone who maybe has level one autism or autism in general, and getting through kind of those those humps, especially in middle school and high school, those changing years of your life. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 14:08

Um I think it's I think working on like how you behave socially is very important for someone with autism. Um social like kind of scenes don't come like the easiest to me, and I've definitely improved a lot. And obviously, like I'm less challenged than a person with like um higher levels of autism, right? But um, so like working on social skills and like trying to trying to foster connections with people that people that you agree with um is very important. And also like if you're getting in your head too much, just like kind of figure out what your outlet is and and lean into that, right? So like for for me it's it's like I just said the gym and self-reflection. For a lot of people, it's music um or or writing or kind of just whatever makes them passionate, right? So if you love doing a sport and whatever that is, like that can be your outlet. Um just just try and figure out like what works for you. Um and yeah, and don't and don't sweat the small stuff because that's that's a big thing. Um autism is like you're you're very hyper-focused and like details are very um important to you. And if if you're always like kind of obsessing over them, um you'll just like kind of you'll just kind of drive yourself crazy. Like it's just yeah, just don't sweat the small stuff, especially.

SPEAKER_00 15:24

Love that. I want to get into some the adversity piece and kind of the importance of adversity in general, and I want to tie to some specific examples. Um I know that you are an entrepreneur, you've started multiple businesses, successful some, successful uh in others, and some not so. Um I wanna I want to talk about what what is your opinion on adversity mentally, physically, emotionally, um, and where have you seen it?

SPEAKER_01 15:54

Yeah. Um adversity is I think it's very important in in shaping someone's life because if you're if your life is always like if your life is always doing what you're comfortable with, um I think that that provides for very little growth and learning. Um and dealing with adversity um physically, I mean I I don't really I don't really know. It's like there's a lot of questions in there. Um but mentally for sure, um, like I said, just like kind of finding those outlets and also just kind of diagnosing like where what you can do, like focus on like actionable steps um to try and like overcome what you're going through, right? Because everyone's gonna go through stuff, right? Like it's not there's no like there's no one that's gonna go through life and it's always gonna be easy, but also like understanding that you have to go through adversity to grow um is very important, I think.

SPEAKER_00 16:59

Yeah. I want to dive you know deeper into specific examples um with adversity. I know that you and I went through a you know a whole lot of it um with Astrosoft. So I'm gonna introduce the that business and I think and please add on. Um so Astrosoft, we started in our sophomore year. Uh the catalyst to it, I think, was for me, it was getting hurt tearing my ACL and realizing that there's there's more to life than just sport. And I think I found a lot of happiness through sport, and I relied on that like external validation from playing sports. And I and when I lost that, I also felt I lost a piece of myself and a lot, I lost a little bit of happiness. So that was my catalyst, and then I always knew that you were such a critical thinker when it came to that, like you know, just business, right? I mean, we're 15, 16 years old, so we don't know anything really, but uh I knew that you were thinking about it, and I remember we were it was spring, it was one of the first sunny days, and we were playing we were playing on the battle mountain lacrosse field, and I brought it up to you, and you knew about it. You you already knew about the industry, so software as a service, SaaS, um Salesforce, um, many other businesses that we you guys would know. Um and that was I think that was the start of it. And I think that like that was I think that and it won elevated our friendship to new levels. Um I want to talk about you know the the why for you behind you know starting that venture and and then some specific examples if uh and we can kind of put our heads together to think about some some hard moments that we had.

SPEAKER_02 18:46

Yeah, there's definitely a few moments.

SPEAKER_00 18:48

And starting a business at such a young age. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 18:50

Um so my why originally, um, first off, like I always believe in like the the power of of knowledge, and like I think that you should try to know as much as you can about everything that you can, especially if it's applying to your life. Um, and so what I really wanted to do was kind of learn how to run a business. Um but conversely, obviously I wanted money, and um, I think that was like that was a problem, maybe with both of us. I'm not gonna speak for you. Um, but for me, I was I I was very like a couple months in, I was like, I was getting attached to like the the outcome of it and like the result, not really realizing that like we were in the middle of like building and learning and and understanding things. So um that was definitely like a big goal at the start of it, um, was to just try and make a lot of money. But later I kind of realized that like this is laying the foundation for like how I want to um go about doing things in my life, right? So like the the skills that we got from meeting with people three times our age, right? And sending proposals and setting up plans for them and failing over and over again. I think I think all of those were way more um way more helpful than kind of worrying about what are we like getting out of it monetarily, if that makes sense.

SPEAKER_00 20:12

No, totally. And I and I I share your exact mindset. I want to ask you, um, what have you learned from the experience? And we'll get into kind of like why we ended up um, or at least for myself, why did I disengage from the business? But why and what did you learn about kind of your intentions, just about in general, and then specifically with Astrosoft, um, the art of intention, I guess you could put it.

SPEAKER_01 20:38

Um yeah, I just I just really learned that like my goal is to like grow. Um and whether that's mentally or grow my skills or um just like grow grow something like not physical, but like that you can see, right? Like whether that's like the business or um like in the gym, something like that, like just like making that like progress and yeah, just like learning how to grow and learn and kind of fail. And I really realized a lot about failure because like we knew it wasn't gonna be easy, um, but I don't think we were expecting like as much like kind of adversity as we faced, which was naive of us for sure, like looking back at it now. Um, but going through that like really helped me, I think, kind of understand like how important it is to like fail and and more importantly what you do like once you fail, right? Like how you respond to it. So it's like you could either just give up or you could just try another angle or keep going or or see if you can find a solution, right? So like that's what I really kind of learned from it um as well.

SPEAKER_00 21:53

Mm hmm. Do you remember any specific examples of just like a challenge that were just so many.

SPEAKER_01 22:00

Um first when when we when we took a website down, we we we were messing with something, messing with something in our uh in our client's back end of this website, and he texts us in the morning that none of their emails work and they can't send or receive and our and our and their websites down. Um that was definitely like a like a wow moment, like, oh, we messed up bad. Yeah. Um for sure. And that was like that was definitely first like sense of failure. Um and there there were there were some others um just like making mistakes, like like when we would get people like on the payment and like charging too early, like that cost us a client, kind of. Um and also just with with the landscaper that we worked with, um, like kind of overpromising and under delivering, sort of, um, and trying to like, oh well, we can charge him this much a month, but it's like without like showing results behind that was like was a big failure as well. Um and and it wasn't it's not horrible, and and I'm glad that we went through those failures. Um but yeah, I I don't know if you have other ones that you want to.

SPEAKER_00 23:16

No, I remember, and I think that um especially with the landscape that we worked with and kind of what transpired with that, and I think that how we handled it differently. I would say maybe you handled it a little better than I did. But I think I totally remember through all these kind of experiences going through kind of like the fight or flight moment, and both of us being kind of like, oh crap, you know, what do we do now? And I think that's so, and I can't stress it enough how important that was for us to fail like that and to go through the fight or flight and realize that and understand how we can calm ourselves down and then how we can kind of put our heads together to find a solution. But I also think that not everything um I think with those expans examples 100%, there needs to be a solution. But there's some problems that like, you know, that we had that that didn't have a you know an apparent solution. Yeah. And like understanding that kind of like that paradox where both things are true in that exact moment, and being able to sit with that is so cool and it's so important. Um we kind of already touched on this, but I kind of want to get a defined specific answer from you is um what did what did we misunderstand about success um in Astrosoft?

SPEAKER_01 24:35

Yeah. Um like I said earlier, like yeah, definitely um we were really attached like the money and like setting like super broad money goals. Um that was definitely one. And then also like thinking that we were gonna see like overnight results was another. Um but really we kind of should have just been looking at success as like we're we're growing and we're learning, right? Like I think, I think that's like a a huge factor in like what I would say is like made it a success is just like how much we learned, how much we went through, how we like learned how to respond to it, how we could get yelled at for an hour on a call and then still like come up with how we're gonna make it better. And and yeah, like you said, like not all problems have a solution. And so that was really like interesting to the mind to grapple with because like I always think like, oh, problem. What's like how do you solve it, right? But when you find something that's like there really is no way around this besides like doing something else, um that's that's definitely present too. So yeah.

SPEAKER_00 25:42

Love that. Um when you when when we're when we were building Astrosoft, and I think that we kind of talked about this, but our intentions may or may not have been pure, right, or moral or built with virtue, um, which I think are so important, and we're gonna get into you know at the end, the kind of the conclusion about you know, really about the show that I'm that I'm starting and kind of the themes about success, virtue, happiness, purpose, meaning. Um but with Astrosoft, I remember there were times where we would do something for the sole purpose of someone else seeing it and seeing it so we could be validated. Um and I think that's a mistake because that external validation is so dangerous to mess around with. So for you, what what I want to know your opinion on uh on the idea of external validation or doing something for someone.

SPEAKER_01 26:37

Yeah. Um, like you just said, like I agree, it is dangerous because if you're kind of attaching yourself to what others are gonna say about you, um you're not gonna be able to go that far at all, right? Like the ability to do things and and work in silence and and the time and effort that you put into something when no one's watching and you don't have to tell people, that's what's really gonna move the needle, right? But if if you're only gonna if you're only gonna show up and and and like flip the switch when when there's an audience or when there's people watching, then you're never gonna be prepared for that audience and you'll always mess up. Right. So it's like I think that if you're I don't think that you should rely on external validation at all. I think that's that's like very um very I think that just like sets you up to to kind of fail. Um and you should just rely on kind of yourself and and and discipline and having like faith that it's gonna work.

SPEAKER_00 27:38

Yeah. It's a perfect segue to um so while I was doing my research, I've even already know you pretty damn well. Um I found something new from you, something in your Instagram bio, and it said chasing progress. Yeah. Um what is that what does that mean? What does that mean to you?

SPEAKER_01 27:57

Um I added that to my bio because you know, I'm just I'm just chasing progress. Um and so like I'm my goal is to is to just kind of keep keep improving and and progress to me is is a few things, but it stems from like one, doing what you say you're gonna do, right? Like like if you if you're setting a goal for yourself and you say you're gonna do something, you do it, right? And then another way to measure progress in my eyes is when you set a goal, right? Maybe even if it's ambitious, the the the ability to work towards that and kind of make progress, right? Like moving the needle um is progress, in in my opinion, right? So um just like the constant effort of of trying to align yourself with with where you want to be and like who you want to become is is progress, right? Like, and maybe it's not always visible externally to everyone, but understanding like how how you work and your mind work is also like a huge component of that.

SPEAKER_00 29:00

Wow, I like that. It's it's a good segue to the next question, which is um is progress, the idea of progress, is that a measurable metric, or is it something that's completely internal? Is it a is it a combination of both? Is one more important than the other? Um, that is a good question.

SPEAKER_01 29:19

Um I think progress is measured internally more. Um and wait, can you repeat the second part of the question or the whole question?

SPEAKER_00 29:32

Yeah, yeah. In terms of how you can measure progress, is it a metric? Yeah, or is it something that's purely internal or is it a combination of both? Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 29:43

Okay. Um, yeah, so metrics definitely like play a role in it, um, especially if you're like kind of looking at your like habits or kind of like what you've been doing to try to align yourself towards the progress you're trying to make. Right. So so that's definitely like a metric and measurable, like how many actions you're taking per day that are gonna get you to where you want to be. And then also it's just kind of internal, just knowing like maturing in your mind, um, to be like, okay, well, I I strive for progress now. So it's like you're you're always like in that mode to try and get like make more progress. Um so yeah, I definitely think it's a combination of both.

SPEAKER_00 30:30

John, what do you um what do you fear? What do you fear about this? And we talk and we talk about this, or we will talk about this in the show, um, especially for an uh 17-year-old, 18-year-old, 19-year-old, this such like such a time of change in our lives um that can only invite fear. And so what do you fear, John, and and how do you respond to it?

SPEAKER_01 30:54

Yeah. Um it's a tough question. Um, I fear I fear wasted potential. So um when I was when I was kind of um younger and sort of slacking off in school, um given the fact that like I I had this like high IQ and like I was I was like a quote gifted student, right? Everyone would tell me that, oh, you have so much potential, right? Like, oh you could be doing so much more, right? And and I never really I never really grasped that because I don't know if like school was like where I wanted my potential to be, like kind of um amplified, but I th I feel like um just having potential and doing nothing with it is a really big fear of mine because I find it very easy for myself to like get distracted um and and like and like bring myself further from kind of where I want to be. Um and so yeah, at first like I fear like wasting my potential. Um I fear God for sure. Um and I know we'll get into that a little bit more. Um and I just fear I don't fear kind of failing, but I fear committing a lot of like I fear committing a lot of effort and time and like bandwidth into something that that isn't gonna like come into fruition. And and there are a lot of different ways to like measure something coming into fruition. So like I don't know if that's like a valid thing to say that that I could fear that, but um yeah. And and I'm also like I I I'm a little fearful just like for my future, right? Like I think about it a lot, um, and I'm about to make a really tough decision to to not go to college like like the majority of my peers um and friends are to try and kind of grow something on my own and and see if I can see if I can make something, right? So um I definitely fear like that not working out. Um, but always it also just comes back to like understanding that no matter what happens, like I'm gonna learn. So um, yeah. Um John, what what are you gonna be building? Yeah, so um a couple things. So first off, um I have I'm building an AI consulting business slash ads business, right? So that's kind of running meta-ads and then having the full like follow-up from that. Um so someone clicks ad, landing page, they call. If if the business owner doesn't answer, it goes to an AI receptionist, they book them in. Um, short story long, it's like a full ecosystem for businesses. So we're getting the business a new lead and then helping them nurture that all the way to the close and then past the close. Um and yeah, I think I think AI is huge right now. And so I definitely want to lean into that more because businesses are just gonna keep adopting it and soon everyone's gonna have it. Um so I think it's something like pretty, pretty cool to be able to sell right now. Um and yeah, that's kind of what I'm trying to do online is is really like perfect um running like ads via social media because everyone's on Instagram and TikTok. So I think I think that's gonna be big. Um secondly, me and me and our our friend Jack Merchanson, we're building, we're building a uh you could call it a drinking accessory. Yeah. Um and I don't wanna I don't want to give too much away, but um it's basically like it's basically a bracelet, um, and it's gonna it's gonna do a lot of cool things, but but stay tuned and uh that's gonna be really cool. I love it.

SPEAKER_00 34:40

And yeah. Um I saw this thing, it was a I actually saw a while back, and I and I wrote a poem about it. Um and I promise I'll get back to the question, but it was it was Matthew McConaughey's, who I'd love to have on the show, um one day, his 2014 Oscar Um winning speech, and this was for his Dallas Buyers Club, which is an extraordinary movie, and he did an extraordinary job. Um and he he what he said was you know, when he was a kid, he was asked, Who's his hero who is your hero? Teacher asked, Who, like, who is your hero? And he said, My hero is me in 10 years. And he said, My hero is a person that I believe I could be, the person that I believe I could be right now, uh, the person I want to strive to be, you know, 1% better each day, you know, that uh kind of mainstream um kind of cliche. Um and he talked about how him in 10 years is his hero. But he also said that me in 10 years will never happen. I'll never get to the person I want to be in 10 years. Yeah, I'll never be that exact person, but like the art of kind of getting better each day and trying to like learn to do more and more each day, um in my opinion, got him to where he is now. Yeah, and I think that when he's there in 10 years, now his hero is him in 10 years more. Yeah, um, so John, who who is your hero and what what is your hero look like?

SPEAKER_01 36:14

Um I I would almost say like the same answer. Yeah. Um I saw this I saw this in uh Molly's game. I've never seen I've never seen Matthew McConaughey's Oscar speech, but I'll have to watch it. Um but in Molly's game, Molly Bloom, her dad was like recording a video of her when she was like a teenager, and he's like, Who's your hero? And she and she was basically just like, I have no here heroes because if I'm able to accomplish what I set out for myself, then the hero is me, right? So um I I honestly completely agree to that, um or agree with that, and I definitely think that there's people that I um I I think are in like better positions than me that that I want to look to for like advice and mentorship for sure. Um I'm not saying I'm like greater than everyone, but I'm not gonna like say that someone is is my hero because like they're they're not me. You know what I mean? Yeah, um so yeah, that's kind of me.

SPEAKER_00 37:13

I don't know that's the answer, but no, no, totally. And I think it's a very stoic kind of belief about like, you know, you yourself creates your destiny and how you kind of go through that. And I think putting that control in your own hands is so reassuring, especially for someone who's 17 who's going into you know a gap year with a lot of uncertainty, someone like myself going to college with a lot of uncertainty. Um putting the like kind of the reins in your own hands feels good, and it and I think it will allow you to you know grow as a person. But if you put it into someone else and putting that like control in someone else, um I think that's immature and just it's not gonna get you anywhere. So I love that, John. I and you know, I love the idea of chasing progress, and I think that's such an important message and a great two words. Um this is new for you, right? This um I'm we're gonna get into faith and you kind of your moral framework. Yeah, um, I I don't know when it started for you. I remember last week, two weekends ago, we had this unbelievable talk, very theological, and uh it was eye-opening for me, and I think it would be eye-opening for an audience. Um and I kind of want to get into a little bit about what we talked about, yeah. Um because it's so important. I think faith is so important, and whatever whatever you put your faith in um is so important. So, John, when did when did Christianity become real for you? Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 38:36

Um, so like I didn't really grow up religious. My mom raised Catholic, um, went to like a Catholic private school, but then kind of from college on she sort of stopped like practicing, like basically in general. Um my dad has never raised that at all and doesn't like kind of carry any of those beliefs. Um but I want to say like at the start of at the start of 2025, um I made a New Year's resolution and and you're at the birthday dinner, we're all just kind of going around um talking about our resolutions, and I just said that like I wanted to get closer with God. And I think that that is yeah. So it kind of started around then, um, started going to church a little bit more.

SPEAKER_00 39:20

What drew, sorry to interrupt you, but what drew you to the faith?

SPEAKER_01 39:22

Um, yeah, so I've I've kind of realized that that no one's going to no one's really going to be there for you exactly how you wish they would, right? Like there's not gonna be any external like things in the world that is going to be able to make you content with you, right? And and I I don't typically kind of excuse me, talk about like my feelings a lot and and kind of like what goes on in my head that much. That's why this podcast is definitely new for me. Um, but kind of having like an outlet and just like knowing that, knowing that no matter like what goes on in my life, like something is there guiding me and and and whatever I'm I'm going through or any mistakes that I've made, like it's all part of God's plan and and it all like happens for a reason, right? So kind of just understanding like I just think like our world is just too perfect to just be some like something where we just live and die. And like that's it. Like I I believe that there's something that made all of this. And I've also just found a lot of peace by just when when I'm faced with difficult kind of scenarios or situations, just kind of being able to lay that on God and and and and be able to talk to him when times are tough and and ask for ask for guidance and forgiveness and just knowing that his hand is like always there for me was was really cool. And so um it was it was kind of self-discovered, sort of. Um but I I just kind of learned a little bit more about what it is to be a Christian and and I don't I'm not gonna like call myself like a great Christian or anything like that. Like I'm not I'm not baptized um and I don't I don't practice it to the full extent that I should be, right? Like I don't I don't um I'm not well versed in the Bible. I'm not like I'm not very uh I yeah, I wouldn't say like I'm an example of a Christian, but I definitely realize that kind of having that thing there for you is something that I wanted to to align with, right? Because um I think that walking alone is is way harder than walking when God's by your side. And and if you proclaim that you want something to be done and you believe it in your heart, then and it's part of God's will that He'll make it happen, right? So being able to kind of like take all the pressure off of me and be like it's out of my hands, like Jesus Christ will figure it out. Um so yeah, I love that.

SPEAKER_00 41:55

I think the the moral and self-righteous mind is a noble pursuit, and I think like how you get there and and finding that, especially for you at such a young age, um it's cool to see, you know, as one of your friends, I remember we went to church um two sun two Sundays ago, and it was eye-opening for me, someone who has been raised um in the in the Christian faith, but over time slowly kind of um found myself away from it. And I think for multiple reasons, and I think and I and I do want to get into those, and I do want to challenge um your idea, and I I don't I don't want you to think I misunderstood what you said because we've talked about it before. Um, but kind of like the dangers of faith and the dangers of allowing yourself to put everything on God and kind of take your hands off the driver's the driver's wheel. Yeah. Um I want to ask you your opinion on that. Is that dangerous? Yeah. Um, does that does that will that allow the individual to become kind of obsolete in their kind of goal to become something bigger um than themselves if they leave everything to God? Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 43:07

Um, yeah, and and leaving everything to God is not like in in my eyes, like I I probably should have framed it better, but it's it's not like, oh, like I'm not gonna do anything, God's gonna handle it all, right? Like, I don't think that's a good way to look at it, but in terms of like feeling the pressure and whatnot, I think that's a great like outlet to go to. Um but in terms of in terms of just laying everything on him, I think it's I think it's first off, like, it's just kind of like it's it's in the scripture, like that's just that's just like what what you should do, right? Like if you're if you're just always worrying about like the uncontrollable, like you're just not gonna be able to get anything done. But I definitely agree that there are dangers in just saying, God, you gotta take care of it, right? Because you can never be, in my eyes, like you can't be a good Christian or or uh uh someone who can someone who can get to their goals if if you're not going to take action. Right. And I think I think taking action is kind of like where you get from like laying it, laying it all to God plus taking action. Right. So I think they go like kind of in addition. Um and it's like God is going to God is going to show you the way, but He's not going to do it for you. You know what I mean? So it's like He will He will guide you in the sense that He will try to get you to go in the right direction, but that's really up to you how like far you're going to walk, if that makes sense. Interesting. Yeah. So yeah.

SPEAKER_00 44:33

Totally. To kind of pair with faith, I want to talk a little about morality. And as someone who is an entrepreneur who started businesses, who has been around business and around kind of the growth of monetary gain, I want to talk a little about and I want to talk about in the future tense. Yeah. Because you're so young. We're both so young and John, you have such a beautiful future ahead of you. You're going to be you're going to be faced with these really hard decisions where ambition for you know a higher salary or or a bigger quarter with quarterly return will have to also match with you know the the the morality of that and what things you have to sacrifice. If you have to sacrifice your faith if you have to sacrifice time with family with friends um with God. I want to I want to talk how do you how do you perceive that decision will look like for you? Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 45:31

Yeah I don't like personally I I don't plan on like separating kind of faith from like the goals right like I think I think they can be achieved together. And in terms like in terms of sacrificing like time with friends and time with family I think in in my eyes at least it's just about like thinking about like where I want to be so like if I'm if I'm always hanging out with friends 247 and I'm always going out every night and I'm always like just just having a good time right which is what which is what a lot of people love to do and I completely respect that. But if I'm if I'm always doing that that leaves me very little time kind of like to myself. And so I definitely believe that it's super important to like make the connections and make the friends um but to sort of have that balance is is also very important in terms of like you I know where I want to be and I know that like if I'm going to be putting tons of effort into into those things that that there's a chance that that could kind of put me a little farther from that. I think is going to be very like important in my future for you.

SPEAKER_00 46:46

Yeah. And it'll be tough. And I think there'll be times where you'll have to give grace to yourself when you when you inevitably do make the wrong decision because that will happen. I think that and also like we talked about earlier about having you know kind of having a wall to fall back on with God is I think it I think it's it's such a noble pursuit and also it takes a lot of self-reflection to realize that you may have that. So I I I I love that um I want to talk a little bit before we kind of get into the closing themes of success and redefining it. Especially from societal values the idea of kind of like eternal um success versus kind of like your temporary success that you may have when you kind of grow um and that being kind of external so the idea of you know delayed gratification you know the very stoic belief of delay or gratification. What specific examples do you think you could you could tell the audience myself about um times when you had to kind of delay uh something and times that you may think that you'll have to do that if that makes sense. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 48:01

Yeah. Well first off like I think delaying gratification is very important right because if if you're always just getting satisfied um if you're always just being satisfied instantly I think that's like very unhealthy. Right. So like you you work really hard for something and then you instantly get the result I think that's cool but then that can automatically kind of set your mind to okay well now everything's good again where's like the urgency right so um delaying gratification just like in the way of I don't know honestly like I think I think I have to you have to understand that like the little stuff that you do is not going to bring you that instant gratification right like like what will like if if we're just talking business is say say you close a deal right that's instant gratification but the the little things that are that are kind of playing up to that are just as important as closing the deal and and the deal would happen without those little things. So I've definitely seen that as an example just like how hard you have to work it's it's kind of like think about like practicing for a game right like like if you show up to a game with no practice game's super fun cool but you're not going to be ready for it right so I think just kind of understanding that that the hardship and the boring stuff that you're going through isn't going to isn't going to show you the most kind of external validation slash results slash gratification. But once you delay it enough and and you keep just working towards trying to like get the pieces right then it will pay off on that big stage and you will get that gratification once you've kind of thrown it down the line a little bit and and in the future um just just kind of a lot of people talk about like bringing their goals into like shorter time frames right like like I want to make $10,000 by the end of summer right I've ever done that yeah yeah we've had a lot of those um but if if you if you throw that five years down like okay well I want I want to cash out for a million dollars right like this is just an example but and and you constantly just take little steps that aren't going to that aren't going to be that million dollars yet but just constantly slowly working there and and building that foundation that'll eventually lead to that gratification. That's kind of like what I think.

SPEAKER_00 50:30

Yeah it's a perfect answer and I think and I love the idea um in what you brought up of kind of like how you do your goals and how do you set your goals because it plays such a huge role in if you actually will do it. Yeah. Because I remember for us like we would set short-term monetary goals.

SPEAKER_04 50:47

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 50:48

And when we failed it was tough. You know it was tough for us to think about why that was the case. Yeah. And it was tough for us to kind of deal with that. But I think if we were to set our goals um and change in two different ways right we change it from monetary to kind of just you know pursuing growth and then also taking away the short-term goals I think that we would have been a lot more unquote successful because if we were setting our goals to say you know what by the end of the summer I want to make sure that our clients feel really happy and they are and they are satisfied with the services we're we're giving them and we are giving them so much service that it would be dumb for us to not keep going and give more people this. And I think I think that that was kind of I don't want to say a failure because the whole the whole process of Ash off was never a failure. The things that we've grown are unlike no other we never would have had that experience there's a lot of people who've never will have that experience. So I appreciate us for that um I I completely agree. I want to get into the kind of our closing theme and going back to kind of the themes of the show which are success, virtue happiness meaning purpose um since sophomore year since we started Astrosoft since your first I would say entrepreneurial venture um how has your definition of success changed?

SPEAKER_01 52:16

Yeah um so definitely in the beginning I I I thought it was I thought it was a lot of monetary kind of kind of driven right like I'm successful if I've made this much in this time frame right and and we we've been talking about this but like it's just it's just a dangerous mindset to have because then when you don't hit it you feel like you feel like you fail and you feel like you're not doing enough right but if if we were to change what we think of as like success and change it towards and like what we have done and change it towards just knowledge and experience and and and learning the skills that can translate in other areas of life right like like you said Ashton never fail we didn't we didn't hit monetary goals that that we strive for but I think that if we if we were to hit those I don't think we would have kind of been able to been able to learn as much and like grow as much right so like you can almost see it as a blessing because now we're able to like kind of take a step back and be like wow we've learned we've grown we've tried we've failed we've came back right so all those things I think are just like lessons that that will stay with us likely for the rest of our lives and and they'll translate in other areas so I I I would kind of think that as a success think of that as a success.

SPEAKER_00 53:41

And where do you think the role of kind of your morality and your moral and your moral compass play into that kind of growth yeah um I definitely like believe that making making money first off morally is is far superior, right?

SPEAKER_01 53:59

So if you're if you're kind of how do I say this if you're overpromising something to someone right and then and then you're dropping the ball or you're kind of just saying whatever you can to try and like get that get that kind of sale going or get that progress then that's just like not moral because you know that you're not able to kind of fulfill all that you're saying right and your goal is just to try and get something out of them. But if instead you kind of focus on how you can help I think that's like a big morality. It's like it's like how can how can I help and and how can I help more people and how can I help the people I'm helping right now better. Right. So I think that's like yeah that's kind of what I would say.

SPEAKER_00 54:52

I really I I love that answer. And I think that's I think it's such a better way to look at it. Yeah. Because then that that monetary gain will inevitably be a byproduct. Exactly which is so cool. So I'm glad you brought that up and so on this show we're gonna have two different traditions. Um I started I created a website uh which I'll plug below it's thus uh the search dash for success.com and on there there is there is a widget or a page where you can leave a question uh for my next guest and I think every time I have a guest I'll go through all the response and the submissions and I'll find my favorite question that will correlate with the guests and who they are um so please do that um because it would be a lot of fun for me and I think it'd be a lot of fun for you. Um so we actually did get a submission it probably was my mom um and the question was if no one ever applauded you would you still pursue growth and success? Yeah if no one applauded you no one said anything it was just you I think I would um I think that I think that that's kind of like what we've been what I've been talking about is just like being able to being able to like work in that in that silence right like being able to to show up when no one can see it and and the less like I honestly think like the less you're showing what you're doing the better right the less you're trying to say like I'm I'm doing all this I'm gonna do this I'm here right like and and really just focusing on doing it I think is way more important right and and obviously we all love external validation but I think that like we said like it's just dangerous and and and that that applause shouldn't be necessary for you to get to your goals because like is your goal to say grow a big business or is your goal to have a lot of people like you right so it's like maybe if that's your goal and you and your goal is applause then maybe but if if your goal is separate from people saying oh this kid this kid is doing something right like if if your goal is separate from that then why would you worry about it you know I mean I like that I I in that what when you were talking I brought up this thing I read and it was from Epictetus who was a stoic Roman philosopher and from what I came from it is that money fame status applause they're all preferred right they're you know people would like that they're preferred indifference though because they will not they will not make you a better person. So John and I couldn't agree with you more and as one of your best friends I totally agree that you would still pursue um a higher level um if no one was there. So I think I would I think it would be tough. I think to be completely honest with you I think I think it's in human nature to feel that your tribe and your family your friends are understanding what you're doing and kind of applauding you for it. But I I definitely think that I've grown up and I've been raised to do things for yourself and do things for to better yourself and and don't expect a result. If I were to make my bed I didn't get money from that. No one told me like I don't get candy from that and I think that like trained me to realize that I make my bed because I started with a win. So I think it's a huge I think as a as somebody's 18 who is still or not a kid anymore but for my parents like that was so awesome for them to do that for me and make sure that I was becoming a good person at such a young age. The second tradition on the show um which I'm super excited about uh will kind of continue the theme of making sure this is all very philosophical um so I will read a quote um that I that I prepared before the podcast that I think that correlates with kind of how this show was gonna go um kind of in a prediction way and I chose this because it's very future tense for both of us because we were so young and it's it was German philosopher Frederick Nietzsche and he said he who has a way to live can bear almost anyhow. And I think that's so cool. And I think I want to leave that up for you guys. I want to leave that up for you I don't want to talk about it but uh John this was awesome. Seriously this was such a pleasure and I'm so excited for this honor to be the first guest.

SPEAKER_01 59:25

Um it's a lot of fun I'm not a public speaker but I think what you're doing is cool and um yeah thank you. God bless