Pastor Walker: Faith, Purpose, and the Power of Accountability

This episode features Pastor Walker, a leader whose life and work are rooted in faith, service, and guiding others toward a deeper sense of purpose. Through his experiences in ministry and mentorship, he shares what it truly means to live with intention and lead in a way that goes beyond surface-level success.

The conversation explores the connection between faith and leadership, including how personal values shape decision-making and how staying grounded can provide clarity in moments of pressure and uncertainty. Pastor Walker emphasizes the importance of accountability—taking ownership of your actions, surrounding yourself with the right people, and remaining disciplined in your commitments.

We also dive into purpose, identity, and the role of service in building a meaningful life. He reflects on how investing in others and leading with humility can create lasting impact, not just in individuals but across entire communities.

At its core, this episode is about becoming—developing the character, discipline, and self-awareness needed to lead yourself first, so you can lead others with authenticity and intention.

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:01

Pastor Walker has built his life around faith, service, and guiding others towards something bigger than themselves. In this episode, we break down purpose, leadership, and why real success starts from within, not from what the world tells you it should look like. We also dive into the role of accountability, how taking ownership of your actions and surrounding yourself with the right people and also staying disciplined in your values are intrinsic to becoming who you want to be. Pastor Walker, welcome to The Search for Success.

SPEAKER_01 0:37

People often describe ministry as a calling rather than just a career. What does that mean, and how do you experience that personally?

SPEAKER_02 0:45

Or how did you I didn't really feel it as a calling from outside myself. It was more from inside. And I guess some people in careers could experience that too. But but I didn't know that I wanted to be. But let me just start out this uh when I was a teenager, we had a really wonderful pastor in the Lutheran church that we went to. And our family just really loved this man, and I loved him. And uh he was kind of a role model, and I thought maybe someday I could be that, but I could never see myself doing a sermon or public speaking. I just that just didn't work. So I thought, well, maybe I could be a counselor or some other thing, but being a pastor really appealed to me. In the Lutheran church that I was a part of, to be a pastor, you needed a four-year college degree plus four years of seminary. And in order to get into seminary, you needed to be proficient in Latin, German, Greek, and Hebrew. So most of my college years were spent with language and preparation for seminary. I wasn't sure I really wanted to continue to be a pastor until the first year that I was there. And that's when I met my wife, or the wife to be. And she is a wonderful person who accepted me just as I was. She knew all the bad things about me, the good things, and loved me in spite of that. And I began to see that that's what Jesus Christ was all about. That what you know, the little the old Sunday school thing, Jesus loves me, this I know for the Bible. Well, it was all just words. I didn't really feel loved by God.

SPEAKER_04 2:35

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 2:35

But experiencing love from her was what we call grace. You know, you're loved just for who you are. And I said, more people need to know this. I mean, this so I from then on to decided I'm going to continue to be a pastor. I went on to get two master's degrees in theology and one in psychotherapy, a doctorate, because so I could be a pastor.

SPEAKER_01 2:59

So you said you were a Lutheran pastor, correct? Can you talk a little bit of difference between the dominant denominations of Christianity and more importantly, maybe not importantly, but more exclusively Lutheran and Martin Luther?

SPEAKER_02 3:14

Okay. Yeah. Lutherans are a part of the Protestant group that uh really left and tried to reform the Catholic, Roman Catholic Church in the 1500s. And Martin Luther and John Calvin and other reformers decided started to look at the Bible to see what it actually said, and saw that much of what the church was doing was just tradition, things that had grown up, like pastors can't marry, priests can't marry, all kinds of rules that simply aren't in the Bible. And so Luther and the other reformers wanted to go back to what the Bible said, and they protested. That's why they're the Protestants. So Presbyterians, Baptists, uh uh, you know, Episcopalians, they were all more became Protestants. And so we don't have the authoritarian structure with the Pope and the bishops and cardinals. We do have bishops and so on, but instead of the these authorities having the say, each congregation has more say in how they read the Bible and that kind of thing.

SPEAKER_01 4:21

So on the podcast, we talk a lot about agency and giving yourself kind of power and agency and more importantly, the choice. So when I see Catholicism and I see that we're to speak to God, you have to speak to another man, I tend to kind of shy away from that. I feel that all man is created equal. Yeah. And I think that having that kind of power dynamic of having to talk to someone then to talk to God can make people hesitant about religion. How does being a Lutheran and how does being a Lutheran pastor, how do you acknowledge that? And then how do you help individuals who to come into the church and to and not to feel that hesitation that they may feel with Catholicism? Aaron Ross Powell, Jr.

SPEAKER_02 5:09

Yeah. That's one of the things that the Protestant reformers uh insisted on that people have direct access to God. You don't have to go through saints or priests or anything to you you can talk directly to God and God loves you directly. I guess uh yeah, I don't know what else more to say about that, but it but it's a direct relationship for sure.

SPEAKER_01 5:40

I have a quote from Martin Luther King Jr., which is faith has taken the first step even when you don't see the whole staircase. My question to you is as a pastor, what has been the most challenging moment in your journey? And then on the other hand, what has been the most meaningful or rewarding?

SPEAKER_02 5:56

The hardest part, you know, you get very close to people, and it's it's a really an honor to be kind of welcomed into people's families because you share their good times and their bad times. And the hardest part has been when bad things happen to these families. Like I buried babies and children. And in the mother of, I remember one case in particular, a mother who had brain cancer and the surgery went wrong and she died and she left young children. I mean, times like that, you don't know what to say. When bad things happen to really good people, it's it's really hard to explain. The only thing you can do is to say, you know, God knows your pain and you're embraced you're embraced by God's love and you're loved in spite of this. It's nothing you did to deserve this, it's just things that happen in this world. So those are the hardest times to be with people through that. The best times are uh being able to share marriages like your parents. You know, in fact, your parents, I've I've married almost a thousand couples when I was here in Vale, and they stand out. They they have always been memorable to me. I just I just love getting to know them. But graduations, baptisms, you know, births, uh uh, you know, celebrating those great times and being a part of that is is just wonderful.

SPEAKER_01 7:27

Uh you talked about how bad things happen to good people. What do you say to those people who who blame God and they say, how is there a good God if so much bad is happening?

SPEAKER_02 7:39

Yeah. Well, you know, the Bible never promises that we won't have problems. That's it's just part of being a human being. Yeah. And we don't know why some people suffer and some people don't. It seems totally random. It's just the way this is. We we consider this world a fallen world. It's not a perfect world, and things like that happen. What we do hear from the scripture is regardless of what happens, you're loved. This is not punishment for, you know, people did used to believe that if you had a disability, it's because somehow either you or your parents did something that you're being punished for. That's absolutely not true. Jesus never taught that. He said, in fact, he he loved people of every description and lepers and blind people. He welcomed everybody. They weren't substandard. He welcomed every nationality. He welcomed women, which in that society were not highly valued, children who weren't highly valued. He welcomed everybody. But um so that to say it shortly, you I can't explain why these things happen. You can just know that uh I'll be with you and God is with you.

SPEAKER_04 8:56

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 8:58

So when you were when you were preaching, how did you where did you find your inspiration week after week when you were preparing your sermons? Was it life experiences? Were they purely from the scripture?

SPEAKER_02 9:11

I was taught that you would find it all in the scripture. And my conservative background. But what I learned is, and I studied a lot of psychology, my doctorate is in pastoral psychotherapy, and I said, you know, uh a lot of it comes from the word, but at least 50% comes from the people. And so I listened very uh carefully to what was going on in their lives, what their questions were, uh what they were struggling with every day. And I would try to see, well, what does the scripture say to what people are going through? And and uh then I would uh try to put those things together for people. But I think listening to the situation that people are in is as important as what the scripture says.

SPEAKER_01 10:02

Well at what level is important uh in terms of talking to people and understanding their difficulties and when someone when you don't have the answer, how do you how can you help someone? How can you be a service to someone, even though that you may be going through something challenging yourself?

SPEAKER_02 10:21

Well what we know in psychology is that simply listening to people and letting them know that you're really with them, you understand them, what they're going through to be understood is one of the greatest gifts in life. For somebody to really listen and care about what you're going through and being with you, knowing what you're experiencing, that presence, I think itself is healing. And that's what I think you know uh Christianity is all about is having that kind of compassion. You don't have answers a lot of times. You don't have advice, you have caring presence.

SPEAKER_01 11:04

The world is uh is very divided right now and very uncertain. If you were to get up here and and and speak of a sermon, what were some things that you would say to try to mend that division in the world, but m maybe more importantly in the United States?

SPEAKER_02 11:20

That's a really good question. And uh you know the basis of Christianity, I think the message of Jesus Christ was you are loved. You're you're not perfect, you've done bad things, everybody's done bad things. You're still loved, and there's always forgiveness. When people know they're loved, they are then freed to love others, to have compassion. But you unless a person feels loved, it's very difficult to love others. You know, there are some bullies in the world, some of them in pretty high office. And I am convinced that they unfortunately are people who are wounded, they really don't know their their worth. They need to continue to prove their worth by putting other people down. And if I guess one of the things that just convinced me to be a Christian and even to a pastor is that when people finally realize that they are loved, not because of something they've done or earned, but they simply are intrinsically worthwhile and loved, then they are freed to have compassion and care about others. And so I think with every sermon I try to help people to to know them. I mean, you you be honest about your your shortcomings, you and don't try to pretend that they're not there. In fact, admit them, accept forgiveness and go on, and know that you're good enough, you're loved.

SPEAKER_01 13:03

I think uh another reason why people may hesitate or may be hesitant towards the church is because of the history of religion. I mean, you look at the 2,000 years of war, and a majority of it is because of religion, the crusades, people believing they are at a higher power because of their nobility, and they believe they have the word of God bestowed upon them. I think that's something historically to look deeper into, into and into maybe condemn. How and where would you like to see religion as a whole go to towards the future?

SPEAKER_02 13:45

You know that's that's so true. Jesus never taught to repay evil for evil or for war or violence. In fact, he himself was a victim of violence. Rather his disciples wanted to fight back. Peter drew his sword when they were gonna arrest him and he said, put that away. That's not the way we do things. But his followers have throughout the years, as you as you know, have forgotten that part about his teaching and believe that violence is away. Even Mohammed he taught to show to show respect to people of the book. And those were Jews, Muslims, and Christians, because he was in 600 A.D. There were those religions were all together, I mean, at the existing at the time. And he said, people of the book are special. We should regard them as brothers. And and his followers obviously don't see it that way. In fact, Christians fight Christians, Muslims fight Muslims. It's it's just human nature, I guess. I don't know. It's not what the founders intended.

SPEAKER_01 14:56

Well, it's kind of unexplainable about the the acts of some mankind. Some something in you could maybe argue it's a paradox, but something that I've been kind of thinking about is when I look at people who s would say they're very religious or very Christian, and but their their actions don't follow it. And they believe that they can do whatever they want Monday through Saturday. Yeah. But when it comes to Sunday, they become this morally virtuous man or woman.

unknown 15:27

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 15:28

What would what would the scripture say to those type of people who think that it's okay to put everything on God and have no self-reflection? What would what would Jesus say?

SPEAKER_02 15:38

That's not a new problem because the the we think if it's the Old Testament back 2,000, 3,000 years ago, says the prophet says, This people honors me with their lips, but not with their lives. It just happens over and over again. And you know, I think every Christian, every person should examine themselves, really look and see. In fact, we start our services with a kind of a confession to for people to think about who they really are and how they need forgiveness. But that needs to be done in depth. And as a as a psychotherapist, I know that healing can't come until you know you face the truth about yourself, even though that might be a horrible truth that you are trying to put away and forget. It's only when you can confront it and accept it that healing can happen.

SPEAKER_01 16:32

If you could share some real life examples during your time with an individual who struggled internally and maybe externally as well, but then they had this kind of new transformation through the Lutheran Church. If you could if there's any examples that you could kind of touch on if you have any.

SPEAKER_02 17:02

When that happened, I was here. Some of us pastors came and just sat in Miss Chapel because people would wander in from the street uh just in a daze because of what had happened in New York City. And we talked to them and we even had a service later in the day where hundreds of people came. And one person that I talked to that day, I didn't know it at the time, but a few years later they wrote an email to me and said that I had helped them, or you know, what had happened here in this chapel had helped them through and r reorganized their whole life and the way they saw life and other people in in a more caring way. I don't know if that's what what you're asking about, but a lot of times I don't I don't know what's going on inside people. And I only hear about it later that um some event uh really changed their life. So, you know, as a pastor, and I guess as anybody, you just do your job as best you can and hope it makes a difference. Sometimes you don't know.

SPEAKER_01 18:15

As a pastor who wants to do the best he can, what role does is vo does vulnerability play into it? I'm an example of this is I grew up going to Sunday school, but then I started pursuing soccer at like the at a young age, and that took me away because we had games on Sundays. And and then my parents stopped going to the church, and I and I asked them why now, as someone who now consider myself to be obviously a little bit more enlightened than I was when I was 12. And for my mom, it's it's that political divide. Someone who grew up in the church in Minnesota now really has no community and no desire. And that the the faith was maybe taken away for her, or she may be found in different places. Maybe that's through nature or through other things. My question to you is have you seen that kind of situation and that kind of story, maybe with like my mom and many other people who've who grew up in the church but now can't have no desire to be a part of it anymore?

SPEAKER_02 19:27

Yeah, I've seen it both ways. I've seen people who haven't had anything to do with the church, and then somehow they're drawn in. So somebody invites them, something something happens, an event in their life where they find great meaning in it. I think people sometimes grow uh out of things. Maybe they're not in the right church. You know, uh uh there are some churches that I would feel very uncomfortable in in their teaching, and others that I would feel very comfortable with. So sometimes it's just a matter of finding the community where it's it's people that are like-minded. Uh and that sometimes that change changes with the change in pastor. Sometimes it's some politics in the congregations. Unfortunately, congregations are not perfect. I mean, there's a lot of church fights that go on. But I I I guess I would say keep looking for a community that fits that really works for you.

SPEAKER_01 20:26

Back to the vulnerability piece of standing up here on an elevated surface and talking to hundreds of people, the importance of being vulnerable in your own life and talking about your own experiences. Because, like you said, you don't know what's going on in the in some of the people's heads. But if you if you speak with such vulnerability, one, they may be more likely to share it with maybe their husband or their kid and someone who they need to share it with. Right. Or maybe they would come up to you and talk to you about it. An example of this is it was actually the first time I went to church with my own free will. It was a couple weeks ago. And the the pastor was an individual who lost a daughter in a car accident. And and that's kind of why I brought up kind of the why good things, why bad things happen to good people. But he spoke with such a vulnerability that the the friend that I went with told me some things that he never would have told me. So where does that vulnerability come from from your in your faith? And how can you speak to that?

SPEAKER_02 21:27

You know, we we guard our vulnerabilities because we're afraid people might uh take advantage of them in some way uh or or hurt us because of our vulnerability. And one thing that's kind of interesting is that you know, when you get angry, there's always an underlying feeling. Whenever you get angry at somebody, think about a husband and wife angry at each other. If they share their anger, not much is gonna continue to happen, but if if you look beneath Anger, there's always fear. I'm afraid that something is going to be taken away from me or it's going to hurt me. And if people can, instead of sharing their anger, say, you know, wait a minute, when you said that, what really happened, I was afraid you didn't love me anymore. You don't care about me anymore. And if we can share what you're saying is exactly right, if we can share that vulnerability, because we're all human beings, we're all vulnerable, then we can elicit compassion and have compassion for other people. Yes.

SPEAKER_01 22:44

I mean how it could be a benefit. And even as a democracy as a whole. I mean, you look at some teachings of of Aristotle and Plato, and they they kind of condemn democracy because they think that politicians are within themselves, and they think that why would the average person be able to govern themselves? I mean, I I I see some truth into that. I mean, you wouldn't you wouldn't have a lawnmower do your knee surgery here in Vale, right? These are skills that you learn. Where can you see religion help politicians to be able to lead with more virtue and to help the United States of America kind of get out of this hole that we've kind of put ourselves into?

SPEAKER_02 23:32

You know, one of the things that uh concerns me a little bit about because uh one of your questions mentioned how people are maybe leaving the church. And one of the things that really concerns me about that is where do people learn values, you know, the of caring about other people, the old just the golden rule, do under others as you would have them do to you. Where do people learn that? If not from their parents or at school or whatever. And that's where the church, I think, in the past has really been an important part of our society. In terms of politics, I I really think we need to be careful about we don't want one national religion because that excludes too many people. This is a country of diverse faiths and people, and we should honor that. We don't have to be a Christian country. But I think politicians need what every single one of us needs, and that is to know that they're loved, so they don't need to put down others to feel good about themselves. I mean, that's when a person feels insecure, then they find somebody else to blame and to put down to look worse than they are instead of valuing everybody. So I think politicians like all the rest of us need to realize we don't have to put people down to feel good and know that we are valued ourselves. Trevor Burrus, Jr.

SPEAKER_01 24:55

I saw this thing and it was uh the human species is the only species on planet Earth that has the capability of promoting a weak leader. Because you're not going to see a pack of wolves promote the weak, the weakling, but humans have the capability, and it's because whoever speaks the loudest can be the leader, and that person could be a fool.

SPEAKER_02 25:19

That's often true.

SPEAKER_01 25:21

And I and when I think of that, and I think of leadership and I think of insecurity, especially with people who talk the most, they're probably running away from something.

unknown 25:30

Yes.

SPEAKER_01 25:30

And where have you seen insecurity maybe in your life? And how have you maybe used the church to kind of overcome that insecurity?

SPEAKER_02 25:41

You mean my personality. Yeah, if you're if you're okay, sharing. Well, uh I I have always been a pretty shy person who has doubted my gifts more than and and I don't feel very gifted or strong. And I'm an introvert, but for sure. And and that's why I never saw myself in a leadership position. But somehow I got the message that, well, you've got certain gifts, use those the best you can. You're not gonna be the best, but you're gonna do something good, you know. And there I somebody has said some people think it was Pablo Picasso, but others aren't sure. But he said, you know, the purpose of life is to discover your gift, and the meaning of life is to give it away. And that's what I try to do. And I hope others do.

SPEAKER_01 26:40

I'm you've met my grand my grandfather, big loud extrovert, and but he he lost his wife. And that was also another reason why I brought up why bad things happen to good people at a young age. And now, being 18, I've been able to understand him more. And he's not just some like funny grandpa who does great things for me, but he's genuinely someone who has lived an extraordinary life. And it kind of matches that Pablo Picasa quote, which was in the beginning of your life, you you learn, and in the second part of your life you apply, and in the third part of your life you give back. That's great. Do you think that do you think it's that is as rigid as that, or can someone who's 18 my age give back as well, even though I haven't learned everything and I haven't acted on everything? And how can an 18-year-old give back in a meaningful way? That's feasible.

SPEAKER_02 27:40

I I think you absolutely can. You know, I think that discovery and that giving away go together. And at different times in your life it might look differently because you you know different things about yourself. I think, yeah, you know, uh some I think Frederick Buchner just said that the your calling in life is where your deep passion meets the world deep the world's deep need. And you're always looking at what really turns you on. I mean, like you've had changes in your life just recently about what you think you might want to explore and and pursue. And I think you ought to test out several things. My son has gone through, I think, three or four different careers, and he's been passionate about every one of them. And uh and I see and I I don't know, compassion is uh is uh in season anytime. I mean, it's not just at the end of life, but sharing your gift as you know your whatever your gift is at the time, surely you can do it.

SPEAKER_01 28:47

You you mentioned doubt and doubting your own skill, but I want to take it a step further. Have you do you have doubt about your faith? And what role does that doubt play in your life?

SPEAKER_02 28:58

Aaron Powell I absolutely do. And I think it's really important for people to be skeptical and to question things. I think the faith I think invites to be questioned. It can't be yours really. You can't accept it just because other people tell you it's true. You need to find out yourself from your experience. So absolutely. And I think today, especially be skeptical because there's so many false claims out there, and AI isn't making it any easier for saying what's it's harder to discern what's true. And I think your generation, one of the most important things to do is to be skeptical, to really test things and see what is the truth. Yeah, I I I welcome doubt because I think it helps you ask the right questions. And it's not comfortable. I mean, it'd be nice if everything was certain and we just believed everything we were told. Be skeptical.

SPEAKER_01 30:00

Has your doubt ever gone as far as you kind of removing yourself from your faith for a period of time? Or have you kind of always been?

SPEAKER_02 30:08

Oh, I no, my doubt has has led me to new understandings, and I don't believe all the things that I was told. Like I was told that you at one of your questions was, are only Christians saved? I was told, yeah, only Christian. Well, from what I study about Jesus, he welcomed everybody. And he didn't he didn't put uh limits on things. He didn't judge people, he just loved them. And I uh I I'm I'm open. I I think everybody's saved.

SPEAKER_01 30:42

You talked talked a little about kind of dealing with uncertainty, with doubt, and it brought up this this class we had in Humanity's Capstone, which is basically a philosophical class of meaning and purpose, which kind of goes hand in hand with this podcast. But it's called negative capability. And I just talked about it in my last podcast. But it's the idea of not irritably grasping at truth and allowing yourself to sit in the paradox of, you know, two things may be true. And something that I that's been helpful for me in maybe my journey of faith is life with God is always better without it. Because life with God teaches you values and and morals and maybe will give you a compass and purpose in life. And it and if the afterlife is not real, you still lived your life with virtue. Um so I think that could be a nice piece for maybe individuals who are agnostic. So if it's with Jesus, it's with Jesus, and that's great. But if it's not, you have to find something that will teach you and test you with your own personal compass. And I kind of want to that might get into the kind of the the advice for young adults. So for people 18 to 24, maybe even to 30, trying to figure out their path, what role can faith play in building a meaningful life?

SPEAKER_02 32:12

Yeah. And you're when you say uh yeah, faith. You're talking about religious faith. Uh uh is is is am I uh hearing you right?

SPEAKER_01 32:27

Yeah, I mean I I'm mostly talking about religious faith, but more just like a more like a belief in anything, because I I'm forgetting where I where I read it. But there's no such thing as someone who's atheist. Everyone believes in something.

SPEAKER_02 32:43

Aaron Powell Yeah, everybody has faith in something. It might be technology, an ideology, a person that's very charismatic. It's some faith in God. But the and faith and trust are very similar. You know, what do I trust in? What do I what what gives me meaning in life? And you know, for for your generation, uh start again, be skeptical. I really think you should people should look very carefully at the what's being uh taught. And one way to do it is maybe to to find people that you really uh admire. Might be a coach, might be a teacher, uh maybe an aunt, uncle, grandpa, or whatever, that you admire and and and and just maybe interview them about what their values are and how they live those values. I think the people in our life can really I mean the trusted people in our life can really help us with find that compass.

SPEAKER_01 33:47

So if someone is starting to feel disconnected from their faith, let's just say religiously, since you're the expert, where should they get where should they start to get back on their tracks and to keep going in their journey of faith? But they start to feel disconnected.

SPEAKER_02 34:03

Aaron Powell You know, again, I think talking with people that you trust, and it might be a clergy person if you can find one you trust. But uh, you know, I've got a couple of uh we call them brothers, we are having group, pretty close guys, and uh very deep spiritual people. And uh if if you can find somebody like that that you could talk to, uh that's one place to start. Go into church is uh, you know, I don't know, that that might help. Maybe reading some and that would be you know, some of these mentors might have some really good sources to read. There's a two or three that I would recommend. But so that's one thing.

SPEAKER_01 34:52

This might be kind of the start of some hard-hitting questions, but how should we understand heaven and hell based on scripture or based on your own lived experiences?

SPEAKER_02 35:05

You know, the Bible doesn't say a lot about heaven and hell. It leaves a lot more questions. People have made up a lot of stuff about angels flying around and playing harps and things like that. That's not in the Bible. It's it's always uh described in the New Testament in it's it's like a wonderful feast. It's like a beautiful garden with uh trees that bloom and produce fruit all year long. It's like a city encrusted with gems and gold. But it never it it really doesn't say much about it. Uh and the same thing about hell. Most of the things we know about hell have been made up, like Dante's Inferno and some of the Greek ideas about Hades and the river sticks and all of those kind of things. That's not in the Bible at all. In the Old Testament, it does it talks about a place called Sheol. It's a Hebrew word for hell, Sheol. But it's it it they talk about it as a place where you go to sleep with the fathers. That's all. That's all it says. It doesn't talk about it as a place of punishment, uh, fire and all that kind of stuff. That's that all comes from Greek and zoasterism that's been kind of brought into our tradition. It's not in the Bible.

SPEAKER_00 36:27

Fascinating.

SPEAKER_01 36:28

I think people um people like to make up their own truths and to feel when there's a gap, let's make something up. Exactly. And and that and that and it goes back to the idea and the scale of negative capability of being being, okay, being okay with that gap and not trying to fill it with just uncertainty and more questions. Yeah. Just being okay that it's there. And there's nothing that you can do to try to solve that. My next question, and it is going back to the young adults, is what is the first step that a young adult can do to start their journey in faith? Maybe it's uh the first book I'm in the Bible. For me, I remember I read Matthew as the first book.

SPEAKER_02 37:07

Yeah. Hmm. I th I think the best is to go to a class with a a pastor or a clergy person that you you trust. Because that way you can ask questions. When I've talked to people who have come into the church, they say that's really what's helped the most. Because we had a brief eight or nine-week class, just the basics. And I think that's that's probably the best thing. Find a place that from what you well maybe do some reading ahead of time to see which of these really intrigue you, which church might meet your needs, and then make get a personal relationship.

SPEAKER_01 37:56

What is your favorite uh scripture, piece of scripture in in the Bible that you would get tattooed on if you had to?

SPEAKER_02 38:06

There's one little one that it's just God is love. And uh I I meditate on that a lot. I mean, it's because that's it's profound. There's another place where it says everybody is included in the kingdom. Both uh male and female, Jew and Greek, I don't know what the camera is uh slave or free. I mean, everybody's included. So uh those are a couple of my favorites, I guess.

SPEAKER_01 38:35

Yeah. Inclusion's important. There's two traditions that that we finish with on the podcast. One of them is a question that is asked by the audience. So they go on my website, which is the search for the search dash for success. And there's a place where they can leave a question because I want to get the audience involved. Like this, I'm just kind of the messenger of uh some questions and trying to just get 18 to 24 year olds to start thinking just a little bit deeper. And if I can do that, then I've succeeded. So the question is, and it's another kind of hard-hitting question that I remember really pondering about, but is what do you need to do or what should you do to live a life in heaven after the e eternal or have a life eternally? What do they need to do?

SPEAKER_02 39:32

Well, what the scriptures would say is is just know that you're loved by God and it's a gift. It's an absolute it's nothing you do to earn that. It's just a gift. Some would say you have to believe in Jesus Christ. But from what I understand about what Jesus said, He doesn't put that limit on it. I think he's holding the door open for a lot of people that don't know it. Okay. So I don't think there's anything you can do.

SPEAKER_01 40:05

Do you think it's based off your your actions and your your deeds? I think it's a gift, regardless. It's a gift towards humans. Yeah. I think that could be reassuring to not only kids, but probably a lot of adults too. And then the last tradition on the podcast is that I think of a quote that I find, and I tend not to talk about it. I tend to just kind of leave it for the listener. Um and this one is the greatest single cause of atheism in the world today is Christians who acknowledge Jesus with their lips and walk out the door and deny him by their lifestyle. Brennan Manning. And I and I will add that that may have some form of negative connotation to it, but I think it we could take it and spin it to be more of a choice in kind of the cliche of, you know, actions speak louder than words.

SPEAKER_00 40:59

But there is truth to that. So I think that's your actions.

SPEAKER_01 41:11

Um Pastor, this has been amazing. I think this will do so such good. Um, and I think that we can um, as a community, you know, kind of spin around what's happening in the United States religiously and and get people to believe in something again. Because I think that's the most important thing a human can do. So thank you so much.

SPEAKER_02 41:32

Absolutely. It's an honor to be asked.

SPEAKER_01 41:34

Thank you.