Welcome back to The Training Standard. I'm Bryan Roseveare with Cédric Coffignal. We're here at our beautiful Simaero training facility in Paris. Behind you, you see our A320 NEO and A350 simulator. Cédric, it's fantastic to be on your home turf this time. How have you been?
SpeakerGood. Very good, Bryan. Happy to see you again.
Right. So let's explain why we're doing this. There's been a few questions, four questions in particular, that have popped up since our original series aired, and we'd like to put those questions to bed. You're our subject matter expert, so let's answer those questions for the listeners.
The first question that popped up was to do with the regulator. Do operators engage the regulator from day one, or do they wait until they have a plan to actually show the regulator? And when they do, what should they expect back?
SpeakerYeah, a good question. I would say definitely, yes, they have to involve the regulator from day one for different reasons. The first one is maybe your organization, your airline, your training organization is maybe not the first one which have performed this transition to CBT A/EBT in your country. So based on this, you can request the support from your civil aviation authority in order to help you to implement all this complicated stuff. The second point is as we discussed previously, CBTA and EBT are complex things. For CBTA there is no specific regulatory framework. For EBT, it can. But it's a very complex thing, meaning that it could be interpreted in a different way, depending on how do you read the different text. So based on this, you can have a different interpretation from your civil aviation authority. So if you involve your civil aviation authority from day one, you will be able to discuss with them, exchange with them, explain your view of CBTA/ EBT, discuss with them, and maybe I would say not convince, but be aligned on the way you will implement it.
Speaker 1Yeah, it makes a lot of sense. Can we go one step further? Let me ask
the question: what happens if your regulator doesn't actually have a framework for CBTA at all?
SpeakerYes, it is. We have the chance in EASA to have a very good framework for for EBT. However, for CBTA in training organization, as we discussed, at the time being, there is nothing except the IATA recommendation plus the ICAO I would say recommendation via the PANS training. But there are a lot of countries where there is at the time being no regulatory framework even for EBT. So in this case, I think it's it's a chance. So as a training organization or as an airline, you have to lead in this case. I think it's clearly a chance to have this kind of thing, meaning that you will be in a position to go to civil aviation authority to say, okay, we want to implement it. We know that at the time being there is no regulatory framework. Let's discuss together and build this regulatory framework together. So I think it's a chance.
Speaker 1Alright, it makes a lot of sense. And obviously, working with your regulators is what it's all about. So you can't you cannot keep them separate from what you're
doing. All right, let's go to the operational question that popped up. Do operators tear up what they already have, or can you run a CBTA program in parallel to their existing system?
SpeakerNot so easy question. It clearly depends on the the way you want to implement it. I will give you a different example. If you are an airline only an operator, meaning that without a training organization inside it, you have, I would say, no choice. You can do I keep legacy during one year, but at the same time I'm doing EBT. So it's not possible
to do like this. There is some possibilities, meaning if you have different fleet, you can choose to implement EBT in one fleet and then after on another fleet, etc. etc. This is something that which is totally feasible and it's not a problem. However, as soon as you made a choice to move to EBT in a fleet, you cannot inside the fleet mixed EBT and Legacy. But the recommendation provided by IATA, by ICAO are quite clear on this way and it's not rushy transition, meaning that you will have different steps, be starting from legacy, they recommend, they highly recommend to first jump to mixed EBT before jumping into baseline EBT. And for instance, in EASA it's not a recommendation, it's mandatory. You have no choice. So this is one element. Then if you are a training organization, it's in this case it can be done clearly at your own pace, meaning that you can start by standardizing a core team of instructors, create a new CBTA type rating, start to use CBTA only for this type rating, and step after step carry on to implement CBTA for all other training. And if you make everything inside, meaning that you are both a training organization plus an airline, in this case you have clearly the opportunity to first implement the CBTA in your training organization before moving to EBT. Or the opposite. However, from a personal perspective, if you have both, I think the best option for me is to first start to implement CBTA in the training organization part. Why? Because due to the fact there is no regulatory framework, you can be concentrated on the three pillars we discussed previously: train your instructor, focus on the assessment methodology, work on your course design, and as soon as it will be done, implemented, and understood by everybody in the training organization, the switch to EBT and Mixed EBT will be only I will apply your regulatory framework on top of that. That makes a lot of sense.
Speaker 1And you mentioned fleet by fleet there, it's important. So even within one fleet, you wouldn't want to be doing a CBTA on one particular course in that fleet. You'd want to do it fleet-wide as opposed to course by course.
All right. Can you describe the journey for the operator? Now, this is the important one. There's some heads of training watching, there's some airlines watching, and they're thinking about embarking on this journey, which it is. It involves a lot of work, it's a lot of research, it's a lot of digging around to try and find the right information to ultimately put something together that is not only better than what you have now, but it's the industry standard. So it's a process. Now, an airline engages Simaero from day one for CBTA. What actually happens? How long does it take? And what does the operator walk away with?
SpeakerIn this case, I would say it clearly depends on the airline needs. It clearly depends on the way they want to implement it, where they are, where they want to go. We have a modular approach, a step-by-step approach, meaning that we will not try to push to do everything at a time. So it's clearly you can start from scratch and say, okay, we want some support to fully implement CBTA E BT. In this case, it will be a very long journey. So and we can support any customer during this long
journey. But we can have also a totally different approach, meaning that, okay, at the time being, I'm thinking about switching to C BTA, but I just want to see the gap. Okay. So in this case, we can only say, okay, we have the expertise to do this gap analysis. We will perform this gap analysis, we will provide you recommendations. So we'll take the picture on where you are, where you have to go, and how to fill it. So it's clearly , I would say, a very wide range support that we can provide. And even I will give an opposite example. You can be a baseline EBT operator and saying, okay, it takes me too much time each year to create a n ICAP scenario. It requires a lot of time. So, can you help us to script this kind of scenario, record this scenario for our airline? So this is also something that we can easily do. And as a last example, so that I can use is we have EBT. Right now we want to implement CBTA in our ATO. So for instructor standardization, we have no needs because they have already been standardized by EBT. But however, we have clearly a doubt on the course design parts. So in this case, we can only clearly provide okay, we will discuss and train you about course design, and that's all.
Speaker 1Okay. Yeah, the modular approach is very interesting for an operator because you might want to just test your appetite for this and see if it's for you. And obviously, that gap analysis that you do is one of the elements in that set of uh that you can actually test out. And probably the the one that we recommend that you take first.
SpeakerExactly. This gap analysis that we have already discussed is very important because it will permit to give you a clear picture on the workload needed, and also the I would say workload means financial behind. So it can help you to convince the board to move on CBTABT.
Speaker 1Yeah, so this gap analysis is obviously one of the elements in Simaero's CBTA offerings. Yes.
All right, well, we've answered those questions. I really enjoy speaking about this subject to you because, like I said the first time, your level of knowledge is certainly a hell of a lot higher than mine. But I think the general industry now has taken to the original series quite well. Yeah. And there's a little bit of excitement about it. And I know that certainly for most heads of training and most airlines around, they want to be able to present the best training available, and that is what we believe this is. So please get in touch with us. We very much want to hear from you. Thank you for listening to the original series. And if you're listening to this episode now and haven't listened to the original series, please go back and start at episode one because it is a bit of a journey from one through to this bonus episode. But thank you, Cedric. Thank you for hosting me at your beautiful facility here. Thank you, , I look forward to seeing you again soon. Thank you, Thank you, Cedric.