Sebastian Jacobsen

In this episode, we’re joined by fashion photographer Sebastian Jacobsen to talk about creativity, visual storytelling, and what it takes to build a distinctive style in the world of fashion photography.

Sebastian shares insights into his journey behind the camera, how he approaches shoots, and the creative decisions that shape his images—from concept and mood to composition and atmosphere. We also dive into the challenges and inspirations that come with working in the fashion and visual arts space.

If you're interested in photography, fashion, or the creative process behind powerful imagery, this episode offers a great look into how a photographer turns ideas into striking visuals.

Explore Sebastian’s work:
Website: https://studiowiig.com/sebastian-jacobsen
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/sebastiankjacobsen

Listen, follow, and share the podcast if you enjoyed the episode.

Transcript

SPEAKER_03 0:10

Hi and welcome back to Click and Converse. Today I'm joined by fashion photographer, Sebastian Jacobson, whose work lends clean visual storytelling of a strong sense of style and composition. Through his lens, Sebastian captures fashion in a way that feels both modern and atmospheric, highlighting the details, mood, and personality behind every shop. So let's get into it. Of course, of course.

SPEAKER_02 0:44

And thank you so much for having me, Jeff, on your podcast. It's uh it's cool to be here. And um, yeah, so short about me, I'm a Norwegian 23-year-old photographer. And uh mainly I'm a fashion photographer, so I do editorials, studio shoots, and uh whatever else uh piques my interest in the fashion world. And uh but my commercial work definitely spans a lot of different things. It could be events or working with artists, doing a few covers here and there, and yeah, just having fun with it really.

SPEAKER_03 1:20

Yeah, well that's that's the most important part of photography, isn't it? Enjoying what you're doing. Absolutely. So what first drew you to photography and what keeps you coming back?

SPEAKER_02 1:31

Well what first drew me to photography was essentially just like the being exposed to having a camera around. Because I remember my my dad, he used to have like this old Canon, this old Canon camera, I don't remember which model it was. It wasn't uh which one was it? Uh it was an old one. Like it was around from from from since when I was born, so I was kind of used to having this camera around. Not really understanding what it was, but just like feeling it was like it was a cool thing. And I remember like on a vacation once I got one of those like the one of those yellow uh what they call, like the disposable cameras.

SPEAKER_03 2:12

Oh yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 2:13

And I just remember like the process of going around, not really doing anything for the photos. I just liked like the the the sound of winding up the camera and then hearing the sound of the shutter and perhaps even the charging of the flash. I just thought that this was like a fun process, you know. And uh I didn't care about the photos back then. I was just like I just thought it was fun.

SPEAKER_03 2:37

Yeah, no, I mean that's yeah, you gotta like I said, you gotta enjoy what you're doing, and I suppose if you're enjoying the process, you're gonna go out and take more photos, aren't you?

SPEAKER_00 2:47

Yeah, for sure, for sure.

SPEAKER_02 2:49

And then after that, really, I didn't really I had the camera on me. I would always take some cameras on my like some photos on my phone, but it wasn't really until I was about 18 that I noticed that I couldn't really live without my camera. Um because I was um going into the army and I was in a in a unit where cameras were strictly forbidden. So in essence, I spent a year without my camera. And um in Norwegian we have a phrase which is like you don't miss the sun until it snows. Yeah. Basically, like you don't miss something until you lose it.

SPEAKER_03 3:34

I suppose being a photographer with no camera, it kind of felt like you was missing an arm.

SPEAKER_02 3:39

Yes, exactly, but I didn't know it was my arm. So after that I was like, wow, I really wanna see I I really need to live on my camera, and if I feel like I can't if I feel like I'm missing an arm when I'm without it, then I should probably try and figure out a way to always have an excuse to use it. So I just essentially scraped up the money I got from the army and went to Paris to do my first proper photography project, which lasted for about four months and ended in one of the pictures that I that I sent you on on Instagram.

SPEAKER_03 4:22

Yeah, I bet I bet I bet Paris was really interesting with the camera.

SPEAKER_02 4:28

Yeah, it was for sure. It was for sure. But uh no, Paris was definitely interesting and like the architecture is beautiful and the fashion is great, and there's always something to photograph on the street. But what really kind of moved me at that point was like um it was a small group, not even small, it was a large group of young uh Middle East and like boys under a ridge uh that were warming themselves like next to a fire, and this was like in the I don't remember which uh like part of Paris this was, but it was within the Arendismans, which means that it's like it was very close to the city centre. And um I just went up and spoke to them and it was like, what's going on? Why is there like 300 young boys here on the street, living in tents? And it was very different, you know, from the from the usual Paris with the beautiful like Hausmanian buildings and all the Louis Vuitton storefronts and everything. It's just like so pristine and clean, and suddenly here you have 300 Afghan young boys living in like horrendous conditions. And and I I like I asked them uh a little bit about that, and it turned out they were mainly uh like refugees from from the Taliban regime. Oh wow. And they were coming into Paris, essentially sneaking through other EU borders illegally um without getting caught and then kind of popping up in Paris because if because in the EU there's like a rule that says that states that if you're from outside the EU, then the first country that you set foot in illegally is the country that's had that has um the responsibility of handling like your asylum. And that's why, for example, you see such uh like heavy pressure with asylum seekers in Greece and Turkey. Uh so they another way around that system was to kind of sneak through all these countries and then pop up in Paris or or England, which at that time I don't think it was part of the EU, but still it was just like it was it was the point is it was a terrible, uh terrible reality for these guys. They were living in like a limbo situation.

SPEAKER_03 7:07

Yeah, I can imagine. I bet I I bet it was um bet it was interesting for you though.

SPEAKER_02 7:12

Yeah, it was interesting, but most like first and foremost, it was just like there was no one talking about it. Yeah, and then I was like, I wonder if there's anything I can do. And then I looked at the camera in my hand and I was like, well, perhaps I could make a change with this. And um and that's why I kind of I kind of abandoned my original project, which was going around Paris and just like photographing some locals that were having like this pristine, like I like a regular Parisian life, just exploring what that would mean. And then kind of just like I just abandoned that and then I uh it was just like um it was just a means of um telling a story which wasn't being told, and I think photography was a great medium to do that, and that's why I followed I followed the uh the group of boys that lived there for about yeah, almost four months, three months. Oh wow. Um I could talk about that for hours too. I was almost arrested, I was threatened by the police multiple times. I was uh yeah, it was uh it was a handful, but I did feel like in that moment that I could make a difference with my skills, even though I wasn't a doctor, I wasn't a lawyer. But I still felt like I could help out, and that's that's where the camera came in for me.

SPEAKER_03 8:44

Yeah, no, I suppose like getting getting the opportunity to put people's eyes that will, like you said, never see this is not being spoken about. Getting people's eyes on something this shocking and dramatic is yeah, definitely gonna help people.

SPEAKER_00 8:58

For sure, for sure.

SPEAKER_02 9:00

And um the dilemma there is that like you have to be careful as well about the way you present it. Because if yes, it is shocking and dramatic, but people are so kind of fed up with this kind of imagery. So over time it's kind of lost its effect. It's there's if you uh there's a really good book on photography, it's called On Photography by a lady called Susan Sontag. Yeah, uh, I think written in like the 70s or 80s, and it's really interesting because even then she was talking about the fact that these kind of extreme types of images, the ones that show people in pain, in in in a catastrophe, they have kind of lost their their effect. And she was she was talking about that in the 70s and 80s, and that was before TikTok, before Instagram, before any other social media, so it's like you can just imagine how it is now.

SPEAKER_03 9:59

It's that yeah, everyone's become very desensitized, haven't they?

SPEAKER_02 10:03

That's the word, desensitized for sure. Unless it's the chopped-off head people won't look at it for more than half a second, then even then they'll be like, I don't want to watch this anymore.

SPEAKER_03 10:15

Yeah, the power of the fun of just scrolling.

SPEAKER_02 10:19

Yeah, for sure, for sure. So I tried to be aware of that as well. So I kind of tried to highlight the positive aspects of living in these horrid conditions. I rather trying to focus on the fact that this was a place of community, it was a place of dance, it was a place of sharing the national dance, for example, for example. It was a place of safety, essentially, mental safety for these people. Like it was a place to connect, really. Yeah, no, of course. And that's what I tried to showcase. That was a long route about that. But yeah, that was like my first proper photography project, and that's kind of when I understood like both that I felt like I had the abilities that were necessary to be a photographer. Uh I felt like I had the discipline as well, because I was staying there for yeah, between two and twelve hours essentially every day. Oh wow. And um Yeah, and as well that I had kind of had like the um yeah, I felt like it had an effect, like because I because it ended in an exhibition in my hometown, like in Norway. And uh also it ended up being published in a magazine and and a newspaper as well. So I remember very vividly like my aunt having a discussion with like my my my grandmother in in the it disconnected again. The tech is really not working with me today.

SPEAKER_03 12:03

I really don't know what's going on.

SPEAKER_02 12:06

No, but it's definitely from my side, unless you like somehow hacked into my computer. If you haven't. But no, no, like I remember very vividly like my grandmother um looking at some of the images and and being like because on some of the images I had printed them out and given them to some of the people in these camps. So they'd written like a message with their handwriting in uh their language, which from for like 90% it was Pashtu, which is one of the languages in Afghanistan. Okay. And I had them translated. And so she was like looking through these and she was like, huh. You know that you know they aren't very different from the boys in our town, you know? And at that moment I was like, oh, yes, that was ex like the whole project was worth it now, just because of that moment. Yeah, no, 100%. Because suddenly, like, someone that is very presented or can sometimes seem very foreign was suddenly, even for my grandmother, and you know how old people are with with foreigners. Even she was like, huh, maybe we aren't so different after all.

SPEAKER_03 13:23

Yeah, it's definitely something that will open up people's eyes that maybe, like you said, wouldn't have their eyes on it, or maybe were a little bit ignorant to what else goes on in the world.

SPEAKER_02 13:33

Yeah, for sure, for sure. And if it's presented in the right way, and um then it does definitely have the potential of changing people's minds.

SPEAKER_03 13:45

Oh yeah, it's definitely gotta be presented in the right way. I think too many people sort of I don't like the term, but like poverty porn, like people will take pictures of people in a bad situation because it will get them likes.

SPEAKER_02 13:59

Yes. And I think that's very common. Like even if they're not so like even if they're not consciously aware of it. I think like the process of actually doing a project like that demands a lot of preparation and a lot of time in order to kind of make sure that you're actually doing it a project on the premises of the people that you're photographing, like that you're actually doing any good. Yeah, no, a hundred percent. Because if not, it becomes what you're saying, like poverty porn. Like you just pull up with a camera to a catastrophe, you take a photo and it's gonna get likes. That is I mean, it is a sad reality. So you could exploit exploit it if you're not I guess morally inclined to not do it.

SPEAKER_03 14:45

Yeah, I think a lot of people do do things like that, which is the unfortunateness, you know, it's likes before care, in a way, isn't it?

SPEAKER_02 14:54

Yeah, for sure. In a lot of ways, actually.

SPEAKER_03 14:59

Yeah, it's a shame. I mean, like like you said, you've used your camera for a in a way of you know showing people a part of you know a modern city that they'll never see of people that have sort of escaped there to exp like to get away from things like war, and no one knows of these people. And you've used your camera in a way of you know highlighting the difficulties these people have, whereas unfortunately there would be people that would just go and go, like, you know, for a couple of clicks and a little bit of attention for five minutes, would share the bad parts of this um community.

SPEAKER_02 15:37

Yeah, absolutely. And I also did something else in that regard in the way that I actually uh made sure when when it was published online, because I had a physical exhibition but where everyone could see the photos. Yeah, I was very stressed on on people not being allowed to take photographs of my photographs. Yeah, I get that. Because it was a security issue as well, because these people had escaped Taliban, a lot of them. For example, there was a journalist, a very renowned journalist in his home country. He had come over here uh to Paris, and in the worst case scenario, if my photograph were to be published, and in some like it was low risk, like if this would go worldwide, but there was a risk that I thought of, and if that were to then go worldwide, it could be picked up by someone from the regime, which could then identify this person, and that will have repercussions for his family. And in that regard, my images could have had a detrimental effect. Oh, 100%, yeah. That I was trying to help. So for that reason, I actually anonymized um everyone just to have like just to be sure.

SPEAKER_03 17:04

Yeah, no, it sounds like you've you've used your camera for good and then done it in the right way as well. You haven't put anyone at risk or so no, uh like massive like well done to you. Sounds absolutely incredible.

SPEAKER_02 17:17

Thank you, thank you. But it was very it was also very draining and very demanding, and it's also like um it didn't pay. I didn't want to I did get bids for the photos, but I I couldn't help but like feel bad about the fact that I would because I if I would have gained money from it, then I would have obviously donated, but I wasn't sure that it would go straight into like the people that I had photographed. Like it's like it's difficult to explain, and but that was the kind of the assessment I did then. It was just like I'm I'm doing this only for the purpose of displaying the issue, and yeah, of course I did not want to kind of have a commercial aspect in it.

SPEAKER_03 18:11

Yeah, you didn't want to risk exploiting them for your own personal gain.

SPEAKER_02 18:16

Yeah, and um but like looking back at it, I don't think it would be an issue if I had s sold them and given the uh given the funds to the the organizations that I worked with when I was in Paris. But it was a it was an assessment I did then and I mean it would change.

SPEAKER_03 18:36

Well you've you've gotta follow your you've gotta follow your own gut, and if that's what your gut was telling you at the time, it's the right decision, isn't it?

SPEAKER_02 18:43

Yeah, exactly. And that's what I felt as well. So but yeah, no, that was a long story, but it was um essentially what kind of got me into um photography.

SPEAKER_03 19:03

Yeah, no, thank thank you for that. Um amazing story and um yeah, no, thank you for sharing it with us. It's incredible.

SPEAKER_02 19:13

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Of course, of course. Can you still hear me alright by the way?

SPEAKER_03 19:17

Yes, I can, you're fine.

SPEAKER_02 19:19

Right, but because I found out it was my iPhone that was kind of messing me up here. Oh, okay. Connecting to the microphone or whatever. But now it should be good.

SPEAKER_03 19:30

Okay, yeah, no, you're all good, you're all good. So thank you for that absolutely amazing story. Um, yeah, thank you. And what an incredible way to get into photography. Like what a way to find your feet into a lovely hobby. So let's dive into um won't you tell us uh the camera or cameras that you use?

SPEAKER_02 19:52

Yeah, sure. So for me, I'm I'm very lucky to have kind of uh found my feet quite steadily in this field, and for the last two years I've built up quite a kit, so now I use a Sony A7R5 for my photography editorials usually. Nice. And I also have a Mamiya 67, which I also occasionally pull out for an editorial. And uh for my video work I use a Sony Sedvi E1 and um an old ass handicam, which is I fucking love that camera. It's so good, and uh yeah, and then it's just basically what I have around. Like if I have a 360 camera, I will use that for like if it there's like a sports element to my video or a GoPro or a drone. I also have a drone. So just like really just like depends on the vision. So it's difficult to say like this is the camera I use because it very much depends. But usually it's my Sony A7R5, it's like my go-to.

SPEAKER_03 21:01

Yeah, very, very good camera.

SPEAKER_02 21:04

So yeah, it's it's brilliant. Which one do you use?

SPEAKER_03 21:07

Uh I've got an XT5.

SPEAKER_02 21:10

Ah, that's brilliant too. I started with an with a Sony XT2 and it still holds up great.

SPEAKER_03 21:16

Yeah, no, well, I I love my camera. Um, yeah, I I very rarely leave the house without it most days, to be fair.

SPEAKER_02 21:24

Yeah. It's fucking great and with the dials and everything, it's just like so it feels so mechanical, doesn't it?

SPEAKER_03 21:32

Oh, it's it's so user-friendly. I can literally just change everything on the go in seconds rather than going into the back screen and go into this setting and that's that's the reason I got it. It was just easy and you know, I'm I'm lazy, so I look for the quickest way of doing stuff.

SPEAKER_02 21:49

No, but that's important because you have to be quick sometimes. Like you said, you like to do like street photography and if you have to suddenly change the ISO, yeah, if suddenly you're in a

SPEAKER_03 22:00

Oh, you're in a world of trouble if it takes you too long.

SPEAKER_02 22:03

Yeah, yeah, yeah, for sure. Suddenly you're in a shadowy area and you have to double your ISO or whatever. And then it's like, I don't want to go through three menus in order to do that.

SPEAKER_03 22:12

Yeah, that my issue before that, I was using a Nikon and it was that exact issue, and the amount of shots you'd miss because you were too busy looking at settings.

SPEAKER_02 22:22

And also it just kind of takes away from the experience, in my opinion, because it feels less like uh craft and more like uh like something digital.

SPEAKER_03 22:31

Yeah, no, exactly. And yeah, the XT5 is digital, but yeah, you're right, it's that just having the dials at my fingertips to change how I want when I want, it is a lot more free. And so yeah, it's a great camera.

SPEAKER_02 22:44

Yeah, for sure, for sure. It's my Fuji.

SPEAKER_03 22:50

Get another one, they're great.

SPEAKER_02 22:52

Yeah, I'm definitely considering it.

SPEAKER_03 22:55

Well, the XT6 is meant to be out at the end of the year, and it's meant to be absolutely incredible for film, so might be Daniel Street.

SPEAKER_02 23:03

Perhaps, perhaps, but it's still a cropped sensor, isn't it?

SPEAKER_03 23:06

It is cropped, that is the that is the issue.

SPEAKER_02 23:09

Yeah, that is, and that is the issue for me too, because um um yeah, I need my I need my full frame.

SPEAKER_03 23:17

Yes. Yeah, no, I I see only doing a little bit of street and the photos are genuinely just for myself, so I don't mind a bit of a crop. It's it's lazy but easy. For sure.

SPEAKER_02 23:29

For sure. When the lenses are a bit cheaper as well.

SPEAKER_03 23:31

Yeah, well, that's the problem with Fujifilm, they're a little bit cheaper, but they aren't that much cheaper. No, that's true.

SPEAKER_02 23:38

But they feel so good that I I could I could go on and on about Fuji, how much I like Fuji, but here I am with my song.

SPEAKER_03 23:46

Ah, but again, you f you found uh you found a brand that works for you. So I mean it's it's a good thing. Yeah, yeah, yeah. They're both brilliant. They're both brilliant. Yeah, exactly. I think uh once you start looking at the the top like the the all camera let's be honest, once you get to a certain level, most cameras are pretty much on the same level. It's just down to your own personal preference, isn't it?

SPEAKER_02 24:06

Yeah, absolutely. I mean the the yeah, the differences are very minuscule and it's just about the usually it's just about the experience really, but yeah.

SPEAKER_03 24:18

Like I said, the reason I got gone.

SPEAKER_02 24:20

Yeah. No, no, it's like you have an ecosystem and all that, you know.

SPEAKER_03 24:24

Yeah, of course. There's the reason I got the XT5 is because like you said, the dial's at the top and it's relatively compact, and when you're doing street, you don't want to you don't want a big camera.

SPEAKER_00 24:33

Yeah, for sure, for sure.

SPEAKER_03 24:36

So I know you spoke to us about, you know, fashion photography and then the the project you did in Paris and stuff. What type of photography are you mostly drawn to and why?

SPEAKER_02 24:49

For me, it's definitely still kind of the more leaning into the photojournalistic, like um doc like documentary photography, like the one like the photography I did in Paris. Yeah. Uh the ones where you're essentially using the camera to convey a story or to tell yeah, something that people need to know, and something that could actually like benefit the world in in some way or another. And that could be like in so many ways. It could be to put light on a social issue, it could be to document uh a species that's like on the verge of extinction, it could be a culture that's also kind of slowly fading away. It's like photography has like all these like brilliant, brilliant, brilliant uses, and for me it's definitely still at its best when it's used their way I think it was originally intended, which was like as a way of capturing reality. Yeah. Capturing a moment. Capturing a moment for sure. And uh that's what I'm that's the kind of photography that I'm most drawn to. But also I do fashion. Uh like my pivot into fashion has definitely been partly economical because there is more money in fashion than it is in uh like documentary photography.

SPEAKER_04 26:14

Oh, yeah, of course.

SPEAKER_02 26:17

And um still like the it's also a craft, and I really appreciate that about photography. Um, a lot of people, like this is my in Norwegian we say Branfakel, which is like my flaming torch, my controversial opinion. Uh, and that's like you see so many of these uh people online, especially like these camera influencers, trying to do these tutorials. You see like endless and endless tutorials on YouTube, and it's like oh you have these compositional rules, it really doesn't matter because you can do whatever you want and it's your creative style, and you should do this and this for exposure, these and these details should be visible, but it doesn't really matter, you can do whatever suits you, so it's like kind of this uh kind of this like narrative of the fact that uh photography doesn't really have uh some like standard let's say um like like certain qualities that aren't like objectively better one photograph compared to another. And in my opinion, that is completely bullshit. Uh I like there is a creative element to everything, and you can have an overly exposed image that can work much greater than an underexposed one, it definitely depends on your creative vision. Yeah, of course. It's also a craft, like in my opinion, there is a correctly uh exposed photograph and one that isn't correctly exposed. That also depends on the the intention of the photograph. Like, let's say that you you're photographing a scene with very high contrast and you're photographing a bird which lies in the shadow of this scene, and if you expose for the bird, then you'll completely overexpose the background. Yeah. And I would still consider that a correctly exposed image if your intention was to show off the bird. Yeah, of course. And that also means, uh, consequently, that if your intention was to show the bird and you exposed for the sun and you can't see shit from the bird, then it's a badly exposed image, no matter how you try to convey the creative aspect of it.

SPEAKER_03 28:44

Yeah, no, if you can't see the subject, then what's the point of the picture?

SPEAKER_02 28:47

Yes. And I mean that's an extreme example and kind of a stupid one, because I that was the best I could come up with right now. But the point is that I feel like uh photography is still very much a craft. And what I mean by that is the way interior design is also a craft. If you're making a chair and it's comfortable to sit in and it looks beautiful, then you've done a great job at being a furniture designer. If it has if you can't sit in it, then you've made a bad chair. Yeah, that's the same photography, like that you can make a bad you can you could actually make a bad photograph, like, and you can very clearly see in the experts in this field that they are doing things in a very particular way, they are playing with light in a very particular way, they are playing with colours that are visually pleasing to the human psyche, and like there are all these things that are very similar to like furniture designers, architects, chefs, and I think that's gone lost into this like uh creative uh openness and like this creative like liberation essentially, like everything is alright, but like in painting, for example, everything everything can be a beautiful painting, but I still prefer like the Renaissance painters, I still prefer Da Vinci over Picasso because of the fact that it's more grounded in reality and the fact that he's so expertly mastered his craft uh and and that that is my flaming flaming torch in this debate.

SPEAKER_03 30:40

Yeah, no, that's that's fair enough. You you prefer something where you can see the story being told rather than being told what story you should be seeing, if you know what I mean.

SPEAKER_02 30:50

Yeah. That's also uh that's also a great point for sure, for sure. But but yeah, no, I think there is definitely there's definitely a lot of technique involved in this craft, and uh I think that's um that shouldn't be lost on us. Like the the the the experts in our field they are very like they are so talented. Yeah. They are so talented and and um yeah, I think I just pour my respect onto them. And that's not to put any shame on on any p any person that's experimenting or starting out in the field, it's more like it's more actually an encouragement because when you have all these techniques that are the fundament to, for example, a great image, then it means that you could also achieve that in if you just kind of work on these all these fundamentals. Like it's not about talent or necessarily having being born with the right eye, like you have a photographer, like a photographer's eye. Yeah. It's more like if you work on these things, then you can also reach that level. So it's also like um kind of reassuring in that way, because it kind of you can get blinded in all the options essentially, and just kind of feel like feel lost when you're trying to get better in this field.

SPEAKER_03 32:15

Yeah, no, I fully agree. There's so many like you said, there's so many people online that are just trying to teach you their way, and there's so many different their ways. You can only know what's going to work for you by understanding how you want to take shots and what works for you kind of thing.

SPEAKER_02 32:32

Yeah. Yeah, for sure, for sure. That's definitely an element to it. But there's also like the element of learning how to master studio lights, and and that is more like uh Oh yeah.

SPEAKER_03 32:46

Things like studios, portraits, um gig photos, things like that. There is definitely a skill level to them. You need to know how to get your white balance, how to do the lighting correctly. I fully agree with that.

SPEAKER_02 32:59

Yeah, absolutely, absolutely.

SPEAKER_03 33:02

That that's that's why I stay away from that, because I'm no good.

SPEAKER_02 33:06

No, no, no. It's just you need practice, I'm guessing.

SPEAKER_03 33:10

And no, I'm I'm happy to stick with a street. I I ain't gotta worry about anything other than me seeing the photos, I'm happy with that. No stress.

SPEAKER_02 33:19

Yeah, yeah, yeah. No, but definitely like it also depends on on your intention, right? Yes. I'm not saying like because if you wanna if you want to draw when you just draw for fun, then that is a very different thing than being a professional drawer.

SPEAKER_03 33:36

Oh, 100%, yeah. If if you want to make a career of it, you do need to master it for sure.

SPEAKER_02 33:41

Yeah, and I will never ever ever judge anyone for um not being a master at photography. Like, I will just be encouraging, like, like I love that you've found this and that it brings you joy, and that is what's the most important.

SPEAKER_03 33:58

Yeah, no, I 100% fully agree with you. So, since we've touched on some of the like modern greats and stuff, who are your favourite photographers to have a look at?

SPEAKER_02 34:09

I mean, my favourites, I mean, that can also be like an entire podcast in and of itself. There are so many, like, it's actually insane how many good photographers there are out there. Yeah, like the level is so high, and that can be kind of daunting as well because whenever you get better, you just like wow, but I'm still miles away from this guy or this guy and this girl and this girl.

SPEAKER_03 34:38

Yeah. No, I agree.

SPEAKER_02 34:41

So, but my one some of my favorites uh um like definitely now, it's a guy called Sam Euculus, which is uh kind of an obscure photographer to mention uh when you're in fashion, because he does videos, not really photos. Oh, okay. But are you familiar with Sam Euculus? I'm not, I'm afraid, no. So it's kind of it's very kind of it's not well, is it difficult to explain? It's more like you take in an image of something and then you just turn that into a video. Oh, okay. I don't know if you've seen all these like AI uh all this AI stuff, people just put in an image and it turns into like makes them do a silly dance, yeah. Yeah, so it's just that, just real and w like a thousand times better. So it's uh he he makes what I call I like to call them coffee table videos. Yeah. Uh which essentially like it's images that you perhaps have in a coffee table book, but it's videos instead. So it's like it could be a cat sitting on a wall in the sunset in in in Milan, or it could be like an Italian woman, an old Italian woman, uh like sitting in a in a like sunbathing in a chair, like very, very tan, with like a colourful bathing suit, or just a flower field. And it's just like this small element of movement, um, but what kind of like the common the common theme is just like honesty.

SPEAKER_03 36:28

Yes, it sounds really interesting.

SPEAKER_02 36:30

You should definitely check him out. I I definitely recommend it. And uh he also just uses his iPhone for everything. Oh wow. Which I I just think is fascinating because it just goes to show that it's really like you can find something worth photographing that is interesting in your everyday life, and you can use whatever cabin camera you want, really.

SPEAKER_03 36:55

Oh, 100%. You don't need like a singing or dancing expensive camera to get a uh to get something that speaks to people for sure.

SPEAKER_02 37:05

Absolutely. It's just about finding the right subjects, honestly.

SPEAKER_03 37:08

Yeah, no, I fully agree with you.

SPEAKER_02 37:12

And um and yeah, and that's the most important thing. And I'm definitely checking out. You should definitely check him out. No, I definitely will. It's just so interesting. It's like uh, and for me it's also a way of like kind of in doing some invention, like reimagining what a photo like a portrait could be, because it could also be a video.

SPEAKER_03 37:34

Yeah, no, a hundred percent. I think you know, there's definitely ways of evolving this um skill set, and it just definitely sounds like he's stumbled upon something that is definitely a evolution on the normal portrait.

SPEAKER_02 37:49

For sure. So definitely uh recommend him, and other photographers I really like is also like of course uh Peter Lindbergh. Yeah, who is like considered the one who created the supermodels. Yeah every photo every fashion photographer has to has to know him, and it's just like his style is so pristine, he's definitely what I would call a master. Like everything in his images is so intentional, whether that is the the composition or the styling or the use of shadow and light, it's just so intentional to always trying to convey some sort of story. And uh looking at his images, some of his images, is almost like looking at like a like a renaissance painter for me.

SPEAKER_03 38:42

Yeah, yeah, yeah. So everything is he's aimed for exactly what you're seeing. There's no there's no mistake, there's no he's accidentally caught that picture. Everything you see on one of his photos is exactly what he wanted you to see, I guess.

SPEAKER_02 38:58

Yeah, for sure, for sure. And his repertoire is also just like incredible. He has produced so much uh well, he did produce so much during his career, which is just like also fascinating that you can perform on such a high level and still produce such a high amount of well works, um without kind of them losing their quality. Like you would see like these great painters, I mean they wouldn't really make more than than what I mean. Da Vinci, how many famous paintings does he have? Probably not more than twenty, or prob maybe not even more than ten.

SPEAKER_04 39:37

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 39:38

And then you could have people like Peter Lindbergh having like iconic images up in the sa in the thousands, you know.

SPEAKER_03 39:46

Yeah, sure.

SPEAKER_02 39:48

Which is in insane, and um yeah, and and other another one I like to I really like also is called uh Jack Bridgeland. He's um much more modern and he has a really playful style. He also I would definitely consider like very masterful in his way of using the studio. Yeah. And he will he will use a lot of like cartoon references in his images. Um figured out how to also use studio lighting to kind of create this surreal um these surreal worlds because I can also like appreciate that. Like I I my favourite type of photography is still the photography that kind of that captured a moment, yeah. But I also really appreciate when someone can when someone can like uh create a world so it's just like either capture a moment, honestly, uh or or create a completely different world.

SPEAKER_03 40:57

Yeah, I mean well that's that's why we look at photography, isn't it? It's sort of escape to another part of well another like you said, another world. It's escapism, isn't it? Really, another form of that.

SPEAKER_02 41:08

Yeah, for sure. I think it could be. Also escaping into the past, like you see all these grandmothers having the pictures of their children um in the home. Yeah. Or like the old family photos, it's also a form of escapism, like just for for for the common man, you know.

SPEAKER_03 41:29

Yeah, sure, bringing you back to a a memory of a good time that you remember.

SPEAKER_02 41:33

Yeah. So it can be like escaping into the past, or it can be escaping into a fantasy world, or um it can be um not escaping, but like entering yeah just entering another world that is not your own. Either for enjoyment, fascination, or information, like in the Paris Project example. Yeah, no, a hundred percent. Or nostalgia. So it's like so many it's so interesting, really. Like it just plays with our psychology in so many fascinating fascinating ways, the images.

SPEAKER_03 42:12

Yeah, a hundred percent. Um, yeah. It there's so many different avenues that a picture can go down that can draw you in. So yeah, it's it's it's incredible what photographies do. It can raise so many emotions. Yeah, for sure, for sure. So let's move on to the three pictures I asked you to send me over. What one would you like to talk about first?

SPEAKER_02 42:36

Yeah, I mean, we've already talked about the Paris one, and that is one of the ones I ones I actually send to you. That would be the black and white one.

SPEAKER_03 42:43

Yep, just looking at it now.

SPEAKER_02 42:46

So the reason I chose this picture is because for me it really summarizes the whole project in in one image. Because you have the um at this point, the whole group that I had been following for uh for weeks and and months, they were being pushed out of the camp by the police, yeah. Um just into another area. Long story short, because it didn't look very good. Oh wow, and because it looked dirty, and that that that is very like clearly represented by the wall of policemen on the left side. And uh in the middle of this you also have like the Afghan boy on top who is standing there with the papers in his hand, uh the blanket around his body, uh really just showcasing that he just wants to be warm and have his um um like asylum like granted, really. Like that's his only He just wants to feel safe, doesn't he?

SPEAKER_04 43:50

What?

SPEAKER_02 43:50

He just wants to feel safe. Exactly. And uh so I've I felt like this was a very good um symbol of that. situation and also it's like small things like it was difficult for these um for these boys to have to get medical medical care and I don't know if you see like the sign of the um of the the hospital yeah yeah it's also kind of broken yeah yeah and um and it's and the arrows going in the opposite direction they're being pushed to so it definitely a a contrast there. Exactly and also you have the Gare de Noir which is the like a very large railway station in Paris so that also kind of if you've lived in Paris you know about that place and so you kind of know ish whereabouts this is. Yeah. And um so yeah no it's so for me it's just it's an image that tells a story an important one.

SPEAKER_03 44:51

Yeah 100% it's it was one that would definitely pique people's emotions as well.

SPEAKER_02 44:57

Yeah. So that's why that's why I chose this one because it's uh for a lot of reasons but it's one that got me into photography. It's one that I felt made a change um it's one that conveys a story which is important to me.

SPEAKER_03 45:15

Yeah no 100% in that way really kind of showed for me the the power of a photograph actually like really I I like the way that you've taken it in black and white as well so it it could literally be any time in the history of humans where this photo's been taken like it's it just goes to show that you know there's it doesn't change that it could this could have been um refugees from like World War I or two it's exactly exactly what probably happened to them as well.

SPEAKER_02 45:47

Yeah that's a good point that's definitely a good point.

SPEAKER_03 45:52

The the use of black and white is yeah it's very it just draws that extra bit of emotion out.

SPEAKER_02 45:59

Yeah for sure and also kind of to display sort of the the kind of the humanity being kind of pulled out of the image. Yeah 100% right in this image they are just sheep being herded you know and that is kind of also accentuated by the fact that it's black and white yeah no 100% is definitely a very moving photo. And so yeah no that's an image I think like it's funny because it's like one of the first ones I took in what I would consider my career and it's still what I consider probably the best photo I've ever taken.

SPEAKER_03 46:41

Yeah it's it's incredible.

SPEAKER_02 46:43

It's yeah a beautiful photo thank you and uh yeah we could probably over to the next one what one do you want to talk about next next one we could probably do the the horse one yeah because that is um that is kind of in the complete opposite uh direction like the first one was that about capturing a world um and kind of conveying in information with it and this one is more about creating a world uh so it's like the two opposites of my photography essentially yeah one of them's very gritty and realistic and the other one's very much fairy tale very much fairy tale for sure and but the reason I chose it and the reason why it means a lot to me is not because of its like photographic qualities really but it just because it was a testament to how much you can achieve when you are working together with a team that you really like that you really love and uh for me at this point this was taken last year and at that time it was definitely the biggest shoot I had had in my career it was a team of I think we were seven people so we had so it was me as the photographer we had a creative director we had two models we had a hairstylist and a makeup stylist and a stylist for the clothing yeah so it was a massive team uh it was a huge headache to put together but when we got there and everyone started working it was just like you could see like all the puzzle pieces coming together and we like we just came together to create what I feel like is just like an amazing piece and it really showed me like uh the importance of the team like as because I felt like the images that I took from that day in that shoot are just like in another world of quality compared to what I had done earlier it's definitely a a very high quality picture. I mean like your lighting's perfect the subjects are perfect it's well framed it's just everything about the photo is just a very very good very high quality picture thank you thank you and it's so many like small details that are that are like that make this picture great not because of me necessarily but but because of the team like the way that the dress flows it had to be steamed it had to be fixed on location the way that the hate the hair kind of makes you feel like she's been out in the field for a little while yeah the the makeup which is also made makes you feel like because it looks very natural still it's a bit like you can still see that it's like it's still fairy tale ish but like it still looks natural in my opinion.

SPEAKER_03 49:54

And oh no 100% it's very the whole everything together is very fantasy.

SPEAKER_02 50:00

Yeah and that is that is achieved a hundred percent um because of like the team working together yeah it goes to show what you can do with a group of people for sure it's stunning photo thank you thank you and um no but and as well like it was such a fun like fun event yeah it was such a pleasurable experience to be with these people and to work together and we had a lot to do in one day and the the like the schedule was tight but we we just like laughed through it um I I remember at one point uh before our la our last shot suddenly like the makeup stylist was gone and we were in this like huge farm in a huge huge house and we were like where has she gone like we're missing the makeup stylist yeah and then so we start searching everywhere and like where's she gone she doesn't send the message nothing and then turns out she was just in the other room happily like passed out asleep on the couch because she was so tired and then we were like hello I'm not finished with the shoot yet and she was like oh no and then we just like laughed so loudly about the whole thing like because we were all equally tired you know we we all felt the way she felt when she when she woke up like oh is there more work to do.

SPEAKER_03 51:31

Well again it just goes to show that you know another another emotion so this photo brings out like a really happy memory and a really you know an emotion of like joy and everything that you experienced when you were there.

SPEAKER_02 51:45

Absolutely absolutely and and that also kind of really highlights the word you just said there really highlights the reasoning for me choosing these photos because it's it's it like I said like I think some there are some objective qualities to an image that makes one image good and another one not as good. But it's also so much like a a like an uh a subjective art form and for me the reason I like these images is also because like they invoke certain emotions emotions in myself and memories and kind of they showcase growth in a way.

SPEAKER_03 52:26

Yeah no 100% it it it shows I mean from that first photo of it being like the the protest of it being gritty and realistic and you know emotionally charged to then this photo which shows your progression to you know more of a I know it's outside but more studio based photography and you know being able to play with the surroundings rather than just being caught in the middle of something so volatile yes absolutely and um so the kind of those two very different aspects of photography like the one capturing capturing a moment and the other one creating a moment. Yeah sure and even though my heart still lies with documentary photography I still so thoroughly enjoy this kind of creation as well yeah no you can you can see that in the photograph thank you thank you that's I'm I'm glad was there anything that stood out to you like in the photograph that you noticed uh when you viewed it for the first time just I like I I love the layering so like you've got a horse very close and then uh like the brown horse very close and you've got your subjects and you've got all the like it's just it's such a well put together foot like photograph like the composition is just perfect the layering's gorgeous even the different shades of green from the dress to the grass to the tree to like the trees in the background and the moody looking sky it's just such a uh it just yeah it's a photo that draws you in and brings you into this this this make-believe fantasy world which will you clearly generate it it's just a gorgeous photo altogether yeah that's cool that's that's very interesting does it make you like feel anything like do you have like is there an emotion you you can you can feel like joyous towards it for sure um especially like after looking at the first photo where you can feel that that negative energy almost like coming from the group of people to then go on to this one and it's so like the the first picture is very claustrophobic.

SPEAKER_02 54:36

This picture is is out in the open there's so much more space there's like it's yeah it's just it's such a joyous and sort of compared to the first picture especially doing them in this order it's it's it's relaxing almost yeah yeah yeah yeah absolutely and it definitely like highlights the fact like and you probably want to um like over time if you were to like view 20 of these types of images and 20 of the other one I mean you'd probably want to spend more time with the fashion ones. Yeah no 100% It's not taking as much toll on the emotions yeah and it just goes to show like and that's why you have to be careful about the way you also present or you have to be conscious of the way you present these these crises in photography as well because it's like people won't spend as much time with them if if they just end up feeling like claustrophobic and just kind of helpless and annoyed and angry. So you just have to like you have to have the balance and and realize like these different images have such a different effect and if you're doing a crisis perhaps you should also highlight the the things that make people not as claustrophobic like and that was what I was trying to do. But it was very interesting to hear your thoughts like about the layering and and the greens and it's cool because it's such it's so subjective you know I don't see which through my eyes no it's it's it's honestly such a like to to believe that the like it's unreal to like the same photographers taking the first one and the second one like they're just two different worlds it's yeah it's crazy. Yeah it is it is physical so why don't we move on to the third picture yeah so the third one is also kind of just like because it just like represents uh a change so this is a like a self-portrait of me in in Patagonia nice it's taken with like an analog point and shoot and the reason why I put it in here is because uh I was doing um like this massive trek it was a six day trek uh solo yeah just with me and my camera and like I still felt kind of a companionship like a strange companionship when I was walking those trails alone just because I was having uh my camera there was like an element of feeling kind of safe an element of feeling like I was kind of communicating with like my older self in a way kind of talking to my future self looking at these images and um about the experience I was having. Yeah of course and um that just shows like for me like a another power of photography which is just like you can you can showcase your world in one moment and you can kind of capture that moment and you can keep that moment and you can tell it to your future self in another time. And in this way you can have these kind of conversations with yourself about like what kind of subjects did you choose to photograph how did you choose to expose things what camera do you like there is all these things that will change along the way just like we've talked about um with like my my also pivot from documentary into fashion and it's just like such a great diary of of how you have changed and and how you have adapted and and for me like this this image kind of very much describes or shows that change this is kind of me finally accepting that the camera is like a part of me. Yeah and that's why I felt kind of the companionship but not even a companionship I like I felt like I felt like before I was like if you like you compared the f like the the camera to an arm and now it's more like you could compare it to a leg and before I was aware of the leg and I was learning to use it and in this picture I was just like here was a part of me. I was walking on it I was running on it it was just like just an extension of yourself yeah and and I definitely felt that when I was in Patagonia like I've kind of felt like an integration in my life with this lifestyle because um cuz because walking out in nature is something I do really solely by myself. I like I like the quiet about it. I like I could even like do it alone sleep alone outside I don't take with me music or anything it's just me. Yeah and then now you can see that the camera is part of that so it's kind of been integrated into my personality essentially and I'm a lifestyle now.

SPEAKER_03 1:00:07

No it's really nice to hear like you're talking like there's so much passion and you know it's a self-portrait and it's a mirror into yourself. It's yeah it's a really lovely photo and the fact that it's got so much of your passion and emotion in this one picture it's yeah absolutely thank you for showing it was just a beautiful photo.

SPEAKER_02 1:00:26

Yeah absolutely absolutely and yeah it's just uh a showcase of like the the that's why I chose it because it showcases like a personal journey and like the the first one was uh with the Paris was kind of showcasing the journey of someone else and the second one was showcasing the journey you do as a group and the third one was which we're looking at now it's just like a uh showcasing the journey of like the individual the self yeah it's it's the picture's really nice as well because like when you when we first started this and you talked like when you're using a military and you didn't have your camera and then you got this picture and you've got a military style backpack on but now you've got your camera it's almost like you've become sort of everything's become one yeah that's a good point.

SPEAKER_03 1:01:18

So yeah no thank you for sharing it's absolutely lovely of course of course so let's move on to the next one so like we've gone through like your experiences in Paris and how you've like now moved into like the fashion world but you still do documentary photography and stuff like that.

SPEAKER_02 1:01:39

So how has photography changed the way that you see everyday life so for me it's really just essentially been a realization mainly like it's made me realise that kind of like complex concepts in everyday life is seen in small details um that being that meaning like the small stories are always told from the smallest details like we've been discussing like the broken sign in the image of the Afghan boy the the arrow that was pointing in the opposite direction it can be like these small small things that tell such a large story and it is that way in in everyday life and if you start to notice these details suddenly like you're aware of all these thousands of stories that you weren't aware of before and and suddenly like you begin to wonder when you see flowers tossed on the street you you see not flowers tossed on the street you see perhaps you see a fight or a broken heart someone looking forward to seeing the girl come home after like an exchange and then she's changed she doesn't want the relationship anymore and now the flowers are on the side of the road or like the shared secret in a whisper or a worn ring showing not just a worn ring but like a long-lasting marriage filled with laughter and and joy it's like all of these complex stories all these complex concepts about love and friendship and everything is just conveyed in these like small tiny details yeah and the photography has definitely made me realize that because now I really have to be intentional about which of these details that I decide to put into my photographs.

SPEAKER_03 1:03:44

Yeah no of course it definitely photography definitely opens up your eyes to what's happening around you you're a lot more you're you're a lot more like um tapped into the world around you and everything that's going on rather than you know you see everyone now walking down the street with their phone glued to their face and they don't notice anything that's more than eight inches in front of their face Yeah that is also a good point like you perhaps you look around more you're more aware of the world you're more present you're more present in a way for sure for sure and the world feels grander in that way you know it feels it never gets boring when you when you go out as a with with the eyes of a photographer yeah no I fully agree with you there so so what have been some of your biggest challenges or insecurities that you've faced in your photography journey for me it's definitely been uh imposter syndrome yeah uh which is where especially at the start perhaps that's attributed to the fact that I had these thoughts about images having like objective qualities and at the start when I didn't master them I did feel like I was very I was very bad like and especially and also in the Paris project not only that but I also questioned a lot like the value of photography like because I would see people from the uh volunteering organizations giving out food cooking maybe giving out medical help and I didn't have I didn't have the skills to provide any medical attention yeah and I that definitely made me question like all right I feel like I'm helping with these images but if I just learned to do some basic medical care instead of learning photography perhaps I could be helping more and all of these thoughts definitely they haunted me for a while I think before I truly understood like the the power of photography and the way that it actually does

SPEAKER_02 1:06:00

Help, like you're actually playing an important role in the world. Yeah. Using your images in the right way. But I definitely felt like like uh like I didn't I was afraid that the what I was essentially dedicating my life to wasn't of that much value to the world and that it especially wasn't of value because I didn't wasn't particularly good at like the the craft. So it was just kind of it went hand in hand, like the imposter syndrome, thinking that I wasn't good enough, and the fact that I felt like the images weren't contributing uh the way like a doctor could or a chef could or yeah, a policeman. But but over time, like with the project that I did, having that exhibition, seeing the reactions, seeing the conversations that it sparked, and also that is in like a societal perspective, that made me realize that this actually does help, but also in like the smaller um like in the group, like for example, the way that I like the shoot I had with the horses, and like the joy and the memories that came from that for the whole team, and the way that it kind of enriched their lives just by being there because of the camera, yeah, and also the way it has enriched my life, which is also like exemplified with the Patagonia picture. So it's just like it can help in all of these different manners, so you can help in a societal way, but also you can enrich the lives of others and yourself, and for that reason, it does have value, it has enormous value, and I think it's very honourable if you pursue for particul if you pursue photography with with these intentions in mind, because then imposter syndrome doesn't matter because it's like it doesn't matter if you're if you're the best or not, as long as your images can provide some sort of help, aid, or whether that be information or by creating memories, then either for others or for yourself, then that's what matters, really.

SPEAKER_03 1:08:22

Yeah, no, I couldn't agree more. It's like we've said throughout like looking at your pictures and stuff, it's telling a story, it's you know, bringing them emotions to someone's attention, just so like you said, with the Paris stuff, so like people are aware of it, so people other people can make a change as well, you know what I mean?

SPEAKER_00 1:08:41

Yeah, for sure.

SPEAKER_03 1:08:43

So yeah, no, I I fully understand. And yeah, imposter syndrome, I think I think we all suffer a little bit with that, don't we?

SPEAKER_02 1:08:50

Yeah, I think we do, but I think it's important as well. Because I think a little bit of insecurity is kind of it it's it's part of the game, and it in some ways it can actually bring you forward, but it also is so important to just realise that in the long term it doesn't really you can't let it overpower you, because then it just like breaks you down, and then and then you're not helping anyone, not you not yourself, not anyone else, if if if you're just like battered.

SPEAKER_03 1:09:27

Yeah, no, I agree. If if you don't if you haven't got a little bit of imposter syndrome, you're never going to improve because if you're already convinced that what you're doing is the best thing in the world, you're never gonna try to improve it or be better at it, are you?

SPEAKER_02 1:09:41

Exactly. That's very well well summarised, I think.

SPEAKER_03 1:09:46

And uh the last question I have for you today is where do you hope photography takes you personally or creatively in the future? It's a great question.

SPEAKER_02 1:09:58

And I think probably the hardest question. Yeah, for sure. Uh for me it's definitely like I just hope that it it does continue to bring me joy and to the people around me too, so that it brings like joy to me and the people around um my camera, like just that it kind of makes a difference in a way and makes a positive change. And uh as long as it does that and it go it gives me just enough money to live with, then then I'm happy, honestly. Because uh right now I'm not a rich man. Photography but photography pays for my life, it pays for my apartment, it pays for my cameras, it pays for my journeys, like my travels.

SPEAKER_04 1:10:50

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:10:50

It pays for my food. And uh if it can continue to do that and it can continue to bring joy to the people around me, it can continue to fascinate and bring a change, then then I'm happy. I don't need I don't need to be world famous for that to to that for for like for my photography to be a success in that manner, because it's just like it brings me joy and life.

SPEAKER_03 1:11:25

No, I I fully understand, and yeah, no, that's fair enough. Um thank you so much for coming on the podcast and sharing all of your incredible stories and stuff with us today.

SPEAKER_02 1:11:38

Thank you very much for listening. I felt like I was um ranting on at times, but you you stayed with me.

SPEAKER_03 1:11:48

Listen, we've all we've all got uh it's it's not ranting, it's it's it's sharing your passion. I mean, no one can ever fault anyone for sharing their passion.

SPEAKER_02 1:11:57

That's true, that's true. Nope. Thank you very much for having me on the podcast. And and uh yeah, I think it's a it was great talking, you know. It was great talking about this passion that we both share.

SPEAKER_03 1:12:09

Yeah, no, it was it was really fun, and yeah, hearing your stories are absolutely incredible. So I will link your Instagram and your website, and your pictures will be attached to um this podcast and everything. Is there any other part that any of your like um life you want to plug a bit more for the listeners to dive into?

SPEAKER_02 1:12:33

Um well no, it's just I'll probably be posting stuff on my my Instagram. There's also my friends just started in like a studio in Oslo, which is very cool. It's called Amigo Studios, and yeah, I'll be hanging out there a lot. So if you're ever in Oslo, then you should probably stop by there and say hello.

SPEAKER_03 1:12:55

No, sounds absolutely brilliant. Um, but yeah, no, thank you so much. Um, and yeah, thank you for coming on the podcast.

SPEAKER_00 1:13:04

Thank you, Jeff, and I hope you have a wonderful, wonderful rest of your day.

SPEAKER_03 1:13:08

Thank you, you too. And that brings us to an end of today's episode with Sebastian Jacobson. If you enjoyed this episode, please make sure to follow the podcast. And if you want to see more of Sebastian's work, please look at his Instagram and his website. Both will be connected to the Cliff and Converse Instagram and to the show notes. Thank you for listening, and I'll see you at the next episode.