Liam Simmons

In this episode, I’m joined by photographer Liam Simmons to talk about his journey behind the camera and the inspiration behind his photography.

We discuss how Liam got into photography, the creative process behind the images he shares online, and how photographers develop their own visual style over time. It’s a great conversation about creativity, perspective, and what it means to capture moments through photography.

If you enjoy photography and hearing about the stories behind the images, this episode is for you.

Check out Liam’s work:
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/liamsimmons1993

Don’t forget to follow the podcast and share the episode if you enjoyed the conversation.

Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:09

Hi and welcome back to Click and Converse. Today I'm joined by Liam Simmons, a creative who uses photography to capture moments, atmosphere, and visual stories. Through his work, Liam shares a range of images that reflect his perspective on the world and the environments around him. Let's get into it. Hi Liam, welcome to the podcast. Thanks for having me, Jeff. Appreciate it. No, thank you for coming on. Why don't you start by just tell us a little bit about yourself?

SPEAKER_00 0:40

Yeah, for sure. Um okay, my name is Liam Simmons. I'm a photographer based in the United Kingdom. Uh grounded in live music and then kind of transitioned into event work and uh and other.

SPEAKER_01 0:52

Oh, nice. Oh thanks for that. So what what draws you uh what drew you to photography and what keeps you coming back?

SPEAKER_00 1:00

It's a great question. I get asked it loads by um mates that are trying to get into it as well. I think I just got lucky. Um years and years back, my friends used to run this event and they were looking for someone to take photos. The guy they had, or whatever the reason might be, that was just not good enough or wasn't getting like the the vibe of the event. Like, you know, we were all friends, so it made sense. I was interested in it, why didn't I give it a shot? And I did that and it went alright. And then um, I think about a year or so into doing that, kind of um I think we booked a stage at Bestival, it was um temple stage or something, got like a residency or a slot there for the year. I've gone down with them, yeah. Man, it was crazy. I went down with them, shot the stage, and then you know you're at Best of all the camera, and you've got a pass and a freedom to Rome, so I was like, I'll give it a go. Yeah, and um ended up going to the main stage, somehow sneaking into the production tower, that that tower opposite, and um shooting from there for a bit, and sent some pictures off to the artists that played, and they were like, Yeah, these are great. And so you get the bug, don't you? You catch it really quickly after that. It's um hard to take something proud of.

SPEAKER_01 2:03

Yeah, you're always you're always taking that that picture again, aren't you?

SPEAKER_00 2:07

No, yeah, literally, man. It's like and it's one of my it's the first picture I think I ever took, like professionally, and it is still like even though maybe visually it's not the best image, it's definitely one of the images that I still stand by and I'm like, man, that is my favourite image of mine of all time. It's actually one of the images I've included uh for you here.

SPEAKER_01 2:23

Oh nice. Well we'll get onto that one later. I can't wait.

SPEAKER_00 2:26

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 2:27

Yeah, photography is a bit of a um a gateway drug, so to speak, isn't it?

SPEAKER_00 2:33

Yeah, man, it's one of those things. I think as well, I've always been kind of deeply connected to anything that's kind of creating, creative, in any kind of respect. Art is another medium that I'm just like super into. But photography is it's versatile enough and kind of transferable enough that you can use it in any kind of circumstance with your friends for like work for any kind of given reason. And most people always have a camera on them these days, so it's something that anybody can kind of take a hold of and oh yeah, it's just yeah.

SPEAKER_01 3:05

Everyone's got a a phone a camera on the back of their phone, aren't they?

SPEAKER_00 3:09

Yes, exactly.

SPEAKER_01 3:11

So talking of cameras, um, what camera do you use?

SPEAKER_00 3:15

So it used to be a Canon guy, three and through. I was stuck by Canon um for ages, man. It was like my go-to, a 60 with a 70 to 200, little known fact I only ever used, and I don't think I ever told any of my clients this, but I would specifically only shoot on a 70 to 200 as like a weird test. And I I don't know why it was a test myself or something stupid, but I would like see how far I could get with just that one lens, and I'd go from like shooting multiple different events that would require something else, maybe even a wide sometimes, and I'd just be like, nah, I'll just see I'll stand further back and use the 70 to 200. Uh which is in hindsight Yeah, man, in hindsight, it's just a stupid, really stupid thing that I did for no fucking reason. Um but uh these days it's uh I'll use Sony profile bodies, a7R4, um, the Sony G Master 512 and uh 24 to 70 are my go-to. I'll rock with those all day long.

SPEAKER_01 4:09

Oh, okay, fair enough. So over to the Sony then, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 4:12

Yeah, man, do you know what it is? I think it's like it's just a lot of the stuff I'm doing now for the most part, it's not as so much it's not as so much uh grounded in the creative kind of realm. It's um event stuff.

SPEAKER_02 4:25

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 4:25

So you know, there's a lot of s uh instances or situations where I'm like hired for an event and not to any fault with the person that's hired me, but more often than not, I'll turn up to something and I'm like, okay, well this does not look as described. Like it's a darker environment, it's a little bit uh it's a bit rough around the edges. And the bodies or the chip or the sensor, it it just copes a little bit better in low light. The ISO capabilities are just second to none on the R5 and the R4, so yeah, they're just a little bit easier for me to kind of like you know manage around issues when I'm when I'm on site that I couldn't first foresee.

SPEAKER_01 4:59

No, that's that's fair enough. Um like especially doing the kind of gigs you're ordering, you need something a bit more robust, don't you?

SPEAKER_00 5:06

Yeah, man, for sure.

SPEAKER_01 5:08

So I know you've gone over like live event photography and like music photography and stuff like that and events. Um is that the only type of photography you're into, or into any other types?

SPEAKER_00 5:19

That I mean, it's definitely it's one of those questions as well, because um how do I answer this to be honest? Um I know what you mean.

SPEAKER_01 5:27

Everyone dabbles in a little bit, isn't there?

SPEAKER_00 5:29

That's it, that's exactly you're right. It's because when I'm selling myself, so say somebody's like, oh, I'm looking for someone that can do drinks PR, like serve imagery. Oh, I need someone that's you know dabbled a bit in fashion. I wouldn't lie and say I haven't done any of them, I've done loads of them. I I've done drinks PR for years, I love drinks PR. Um, work with a bunch of really lovely agencies in London, but it's not something that you'll see as at the forefront of my portfolio. I'm trying to just push event stuff. Um, I'm trying to push live artist press. Uh there's a there's a number of things, but yeah, again, it's one of those uh master of all kind of situations. I think if you can take a photo well, and I'll stand by it, if you're if you're a good photographer, you have understand the basics, you're good with the edit, I think you you pretty much master most. I think that weddings the only one that I'll make an exception for. That I won't, you know, I won't dabble in it because it's it is more. You need to be in that realm to kind of understand it a little bit better in the timings and like working with people that's entire emotional kind of stability is on the line.

SPEAKER_01 6:28

Oh, wedding.

SPEAKER_00 6:28

Something you don't really have to deal with for like a two-hour event.

SPEAKER_01 6:32

Wedd weddings are stressful. Sorry. Weddings are really stressful. You gotta get that one specific photo at that one specific time, you can't miss it.

SPEAKER_00 6:42

Bro, that's it. I I've done like two or three in my entire career, one of which was for a mate, and even then he was like, It's funny because I should be there, like kind of consoling them, like, oh you know, like it's all gonna be good. You're gonna be like getting married, you know, it's gonna be great. He's consoling me, like, you've you've got this, bro. Like, I'm not pissed if you don't get these photos. And I'm like saying that like almost in tears myself, like, I don't want to ruin your big day, man. But uh no, yeah. It's I I think if I had to say other things I'm interested in, are fashion, um, editorial stuff, it's stuff that I've like not really done a lot of, but like when I have done it, I've been super into it. I think I've just I like anything that gives me a bit more of a creative freedom, a creative reign over what I do. I think you lose a lot of that when you start trying to make money with it. Unfortunately, that's just the way the industry seems to turn.

unknown 7:28

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 7:33

Well, I think that I think once you start moving it into a money-making career, you have to shoot what the client wants rather than what you want to do, don't you? So you are very restricted.

SPEAKER_00 7:43

Does seem to be the thing, yeah. It's uh not wrong. It's just uh annoyingly the way things go. But uh yeah, I think if I had to choose a bit more fashion would be brilliant, a bit more fashion. And even you see a lot of people do fashion week stuff, and like a lot of those that space people work for free. I personally don't choose to work for free on anything, you know no matter how familiar I am with it, it's just a personal preference and I don't like devaluing the industry. But um, you know, I've I've been tempted at times to be like, oh, it's like fun, and there's free drinks, you know. Good content of free drinks, why wouldn't I? And I'm like, no, stand your ground, don't be an idiot.

SPEAKER_01 8:16

Yeah, I I I'm in a few um like photography groups on Facebook, and there's always people like, oh, I can pay you by increasing your portfolio. Oh, I'll pay my rent for that, shall I?

SPEAKER_00 8:26

Yeah, it's a mad one, honestly. It's it's again, it's this funny, funny industry at the moment. Like, everybody is I think in a state of like, I need to like make money, but also like I just need to get my foot in the door. What does it look like to get your foot in the door? Well, it definitely doesn't look like you know trading for favors for free, because realistically, you know, they're just gonna go, thanks for free favour, next one.

SPEAKER_01 8:47

Yeah, exactly. Whatever you're doing for free, there'll be an old photographer down the road that will do exactly the same thing for free next year.

SPEAKER_00 8:54

So yeah, it seems to be the case.

SPEAKER_01 8:56

Yeah, you're shooting yourself in the foot, really, aren't you?

SPEAKER_00 8:59

Yeah, for sure, man, for sure.

SPEAKER_01 9:01

So going over like so are there any like photographers that like you really like to keep track of, or like who are your favourite photographers, really?

SPEAKER_00 9:11

That is a great question. No one ever asks that question, I don't think.

SPEAKER_01 9:15

Like, no, see that that's the bit that really interests me, because I've got like photographers that you know, I've I've got photo books, there's certain photographers I look at on Instagram and YouTube. I just like to know what everyone else is looking at, really.

SPEAKER_00 9:28

Yeah, I mean, oh god, there was actually one of the main reasons I even got into photo uh like photography in the first place was this um oh what was his name? Uh guy, guy a rock or something. Oh he was like a fashion yeah, he's like a f uh I think he's a US-based fashion photographer. Um, but yeah, his his portraits, he did a bunch of portraits, and he had this kind of like low-fi, really muddied look to the edit. Um, and it was just super appealing. Like the shadows are super heavy hue on purple, like the highlights kind of a yellow hue, and I don't know, it's like you know, think Tumblr back when Tumblr was big. You'd you'd see all these people posting pictures and they'd like end up becoming like those um there's like these trip hop YouTube video channels, and they'd always have like one of these images as like the the videos like uh thumbnail.

SPEAKER_02 10:19

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 10:20

Anyway, it's really so it's so specific. It's such a specific niche of what I liked um that really drove my interest. So now I was like, yeah, man, this guy's got it. He's living a dream out of New York, and I'm here in fucking Portsmouth. That could be me. But no, it it totally is uh definitely oh yeah, I'm just Googling. He's he's an Israeli American photographer. There you go. If you want to check him out, he's uh New York based, worked in Los Angeles. Uh yeah, definitely worth the look. The guy was like super influential to me. Might not be the same for everybody, but it was for me. That's that's what really did it.

SPEAKER_01 10:53

Yeah, no, that that's fair enough. Is that is there any others, or is it mostly just him?

SPEAKER_00 10:59

Yeah, no, I'm strictly this one man. Um honestly, uh what's his name? Bloody hell, there's uh there's another one. There's a there's a few. There's a guy called um what is it? Bryant? Wait, remember let me just get this right because I don't want to get it wrong. Okay, so there's a guy called Clint. There we go. I I don't know them by their actual names annoyingly, but there's a guy called Clint on Instagram if you haven't checked his stuff out. Fucking brilliant.

SPEAKER_02 11:24

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 11:25

Everything this guy does is straight hitters, like he's based out of Los Angeles again. I think he runs his own swimwear brand these days, but like it's just like it's it's the it's the multimedium or the multi-format stuff that he's doing. He's doing like a little bit of digital.

SPEAKER_02 11:38

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 11:38

Kind of got that Richardson direct flash bracket kind of stuff that seems to be really popular always. Uh he does a lot of that. Lots of like beach swimwear, kind of like thought-provoking campaign stuff. It's nice, he uses a little bit of um what is it, like one of those old Polaroid portrait cameras, the ones that take the Fuji FP100C film, that really rare as rocking horse shit film. Oh, okay, fair enough. Really just rounded stuff, not does a lot of 35. It's just I like the fact that there's enough there that is like interesting to me. You know, some people would argue as well, it's just women mostly that he photographs, but I just find it interesting the way he's using light, the way he's using the edit after the fact. That I I look for stuff that inspires me ultimately. Um, there's him, there's I mean, there's a hundred other guys. I'll be honest, I'm following a lot of people. A rare shout out as well to Isau Andrews. Isal Andrews is uh an artist, I think, based. Oh, I don't want to get wrong. I think he's up Pacific Northwest Way of America, uh, oil painter. That is like the most inspiring stuff to me as well. I've got one of his pieces in my house. Um yeah, I I follow his stuff routinely. Anything that inspires me, it's not really necessarily just photographs this these days, it's anything that kind of invokes or like elicits that experience that you feel when you see something like that really hits, you know?

SPEAKER_01 12:52

Yeah, pull that emotion out.

SPEAKER_00 12:55

Yeah, for sure, for sure. That's it. So yeah, there's a few. There's a few for sure.

SPEAKER_01 13:00

Fair enough. I th I think you're on the wrong side of the uh the Atlantic though. I think you need to get over to America.

SPEAKER_00 13:07

Yeah, man. I mean, I was out there for a bit and uh there's a story there.

SPEAKER_01 13:13

Do you want to tell us?

SPEAKER_00 13:15

Oh, yeah, yeah, sure. Um fuck. Um, so I mean there's many stories. Uh I was in in and out of LA quite a period of time, uh, from 2014 to 2019. Yeah. Um ultimately, let's just skip to the juicy part. My visa got denied. Uh, don't know why. Still to this day, there's never been any kind of clarification as to why it happened. But I flew out, uh, it was my birthday. Um, I think it was beginning of 2019. I flew out and I'm in Los Angeles, LAX Airport. I land, I go through, I'm a bit tired, I hadn't really slept this flight either. I'm I'm traveling light, I'm staying with this guy that I met the last time I was out there called Eddie, um, who was uh I think it was Sean White's manager, who's a snowboarder. Oh, okay. Cool. Yeah, so we'd uh we'd gone to a party and I'd gone to a few things with him when I was last out, and we'd kind of collectively been involved in this brainchild that uh our friend Kimmy I had. Uh and we were all kind of like working together on this project anyway, and we're like, this is a cool thing, we should like you know meet up again. And I was like, Well, come back out to LA, let's do this. Fly out anyway. I'm in the FX and I'm going through to talk to a CBP agent, you know, one of the Border Patrol guys, and then um, for no reason, he's like asking a few extra questions, and I'm like, nah, you know, I'm staying with this dude. And he's like, Why are you out here? And I was like, I don't know, business, because I'll probably talk people about business because you you know, I go out there as well. When people come back to the UK, I can like source them as clients while I'm out there. So I taught I call it business, and I had a visa that was correct for that. And uh, so anyway, we're like out, I'm at this border patrol agent's gate, and he's just like looking at me up and down. I'm like, I don't know, why are you doing that? I've done nothing wrong. He's like, Step a bit two minutes, please, sir. And I'm like, yeah, sure. Two minutes ended up being nearly two days, anyway. So um they pulled Oh bro, yeah. So before all this kind of getting held at the airport was like a a more known thing to the public, it was happening already, I suppose, and I was just one of those unfortunate people that had it happen to me. They pulled me to the side, so you come out as you go through the customs border patrol gates in LAX. If you go down to the far left, there is a door, you don't want to ever go through that door. Uh they took me through that door, and I'm sitting there and I'm like, okay, this is terrifying. Why am I here? And I'm noticing after like an hour, two hours, three hours have passed, I'm like, I've got my friend who's supposed to be picking me up. This girl called Vita was unable to get through to me because I'm in this little bit, and I'm like, You guys caller for me? And they're like, Yeah, yeah, yeah, sure, sure, sure. All right, what's the number? And I was like, I'll give her the number, and then the girl just goes, Yeah, now give me your phone. And I'm like, and she's like, Yeah, no, yeah, the phone and the passcode as well, unless you want us to like can't remember, you know, ad living. She was just like basically semi-threatening me, but because she was worried I was going to use my phone to do something, I think.

SPEAKER_02 16:01

Oh, okay.

SPEAKER_00 16:02

Um, and it was yeah, it's all very weird. Anyway, long story short, I'm in there for near-on two days. In this period, like they take me into another room that's further out back, they hold me over, and uh they're like, Yeah, you're not going anywhere. Other people that were next to me, by the way, I did nothing to be there, and ultimately I got sent home at the end of this and renewed my visa with no issue. There you go, that's that end of the happy ending to the story you're looking for. But in this time, that there's a guy in there that's uh rich, super rich Asian, like East Asian guy who was just who's out in LA, he crashed a supercar in downtown LA, and um he'd escaped the country, come back, and they'd arrested him on the border, like and he was in there with me. Another guy was an Australian embassy representatives in some kind of capacity, and uh they put I remember this pivotal moment, I'm out there on a camping bed. Oh, they put you on camping beds, by the way. Um and uh fed me Cheez-Its the whole time I was there, nothing else. So eating Cheez-Its that kept me awake the whole time. It's blokens and he's Australian. I was like, he's quite sound actually. What a nice guy. We're talking for a bit, and the guy, the officer comes in and goes, What's that with a rubber glove on his hand and this guy's phone in his hand and it's drugs? And I'm like, Oh wait, I thought you were the nice guy. Oh, wait, so I'm the only I'm the only nice guy here that's not done anything wrong. And uh yeah, no, it turns out he'd he'd been like, I don't know, abusing his position on an E3 visa, which I think is the affordity visa that Australians could obtain due to their relationship, their unique working relationship with the US. Um, just say he's got this and he's yeah, he's just like, what's this then? And I'm like, that looks like coke. Yeah, sure enough, sure enough, it's like the guy's like doing something illegal with his position. Um, and so yeah, after that they grill me and they're asking me, like, what do you do? How do you know these people? What you think you could just come out and stay for free? And I was like, isn't that what friends are for? Um apparently I was wrong anyway. So yeah, that was it. Uh they sent me back and got my visa again, went back out. There you go. That's a story. That's one story from the US.

SPEAKER_01 17:59

That sounds like an absolute nightmare.

SPEAKER_00 18:03

Mate, are you honestly? That is not even the tip of the iceberg of the nightmares I've lived on uh in the US. There have been some situations out there, man.

SPEAKER_01 18:13

Well, there go with my dream of um doing street photography in New York.

SPEAKER_02 18:18

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 18:21

So we're gonna move on to my favorite question in all of these podcasts, and it's the your your three favorite pictures.

SPEAKER_02 18:29

Oh, sick okay cool, go through it.

SPEAKER_01 18:31

Right. Um if you talk us through them and then we'll go through them and yeah, over to you.

SPEAKER_00 18:38

Alright, yeah. Thank you. Um so I will be fully transparent. I definitely didn't prepare as uh deep as deeply as I should have for this with the three photos, but I did choose three photos that I think mean the most to me. And I've got a story behind each of them. And so, uh starting, there's one image I've sent across which is actually the first I I'd still deem as the first professional image I'd ever taken, or an image that was uh recognised professionally, um, and that is of disclosure on the main stage of Best of all. I think maybe it could be 2015, I want to say. 2014, maybe I think 2014 and Best of all.

SPEAKER_02 19:13

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 19:14

Um I'd kind of yeah, you abused my right by being there and snuck into the production tower that was opposite or the uh tower where they control all the lights, um, opposite the main stage. And yeah, man, I just snuck up there, waited through I think Leanne La Haver's set. At the time I was like super into everything she was making, so I was actually only up there for her, and as a friend of mine was like, Man, you should shoot disclosure on later on. And I was like, Oh yeah, they got that song Latch. Yeah, I definitely want to shoot that, but I'm sure the lights would be cool. So I'm camping out of there speaking to this guy, and I'm like, I need to use a toilet, and I'm like, I'm too scared to use the toilet in case I leave, I can't come back in because I've not got the right accreditation. Yeah, but yeah, it was uh it was a trip. I stayed up there with my laptop, shot the thing, edited it, sent it over to their management, and their management were like this is really cool. And it opened up uh a really unique experience in my life quite early on. I was uh kind of afforded a lot of options through taking that image, really kind of jet set my career, if that makes sense. Um Yeah, no, I I ended up working with them uh on their own, they had this festival that they had themselves uh called Wildlife Festival. I don't know if you remember that.

SPEAKER_01 20:22

No, I don't.

SPEAKER_00 20:23

Uh no, yeah, it was uh oh god, I wouldn't be able to tell you where it was. It's somewhere on the way down towards Brighton at some kind of uh Seoran Airport. That was it.

SPEAKER_02 20:31

Oh, okay.

SPEAKER_00 20:32

Um but yeah, and I ended up working with them on that, doing their some of their core content. I ended up like taking some images for them at various other bits and pieces. It was really it's just a really good starter, and then through that connection with disclosure from that image, I ended up working with a variety of other clients that ended up helping me shape where I'm at at the moment. So it really is the kind of image that started it all. That makes sense to me to say that.

SPEAKER_01 20:55

Yeah, to be fair, most of the absolutely incredible picture.

SPEAKER_00 21:00

Oh cheers, mate. That was taking on a that was taken on a Canon 60D with a 30 a Sigma 30 mil, I think. I want to say. Could be wrong, but I think that's what it was.

SPEAKER_01 21:12

Are you fair? To get that on a 60D is very impressive.

SPEAKER_00 21:16

Yeah, man, honestly, I was just sitting there like hoping to well, you know when you have your finger on a shot going, one of these has got a hit. Um it hit the time anyway. Um what's the next one? Alright, yeah, so the next one, uh it's Wu Tang clan on stage at uh Wildlife Festival. The connection I just mentioned. Yeah. Um so this was just honestly, I think it was one of those things that was like um pinch me, what the fuck is going on? Like, this isn't a real career. Um but I was hired by the guys that um obviously disclosure curated the festival, but it's people above them that helped me run it, so they'd hired me kind of on the condition I'd work for this much money, I'd do this much. Work and I was like, you know, like anything's great at this point. Um, just kind of like happy to be there, you know. It's my first like core festival job, and um, yeah, I think to make a really long story short, I think it's self-explanatory, got to go on stage with Wu-Tang Clan, like, or at least some of the members of, and uh still to this day, I talk about that to anyone that will listen. I'm like, yeah, man. And they signed so I I used to carry this journal around, which um I only found again recently. Anytime I worked with anybody, anytime I ever met a famous person, I was at like a place where like something cool was happening, I carry this journal with me. Yeah, and this journal is beaten bad and seen stuff that no book should ever see. Um, but it the Wu Tan clan uh signed it and wrote in it for me anyway, uh, when I was at that festival. So I got on stage, yeah. The manager was like, or they're sorry, their stage manager that they brought with them. He was like a bit hesitant at verse, he's like, Who's this like tiny white boy? Um hi, it's me. Yeah, I can I could can I come and do my job? And he's like, you know, it is a closed stage, but I was talking to him, like talking to the guy for a minute, and he's like, Look, you seem you seem okay, as long as you don't be disrespectful and get in the way or do anything annoying, then you're fine. And I was like, I'm definitely not gonna try it out with any of you on stage. So ran ran with the I got a few images. That's just the one I liked personally. There was another one that everyone else liked more, uh, that was like the behind the they had a DJ with them, so it's behind his head, kind of looking out, and they're all on the stage, and then you see the crowd. I just, you know, man, it's one of those, it's one of those images where it's the beginning of my career, it's the first time I'm ever doing anything that's of like note, and uh it was just cool. One of those things, like I look back at it and I go, yeah, that's cool.

SPEAKER_01 23:36

No, it's again another really cool picture. And the fact that he's connected to the first one of like it's the yeah, it's a really cool little connection.

SPEAKER_00 23:44

Yeah, right. I I yeah, I always found it quite interesting that like you go from I think there's like uh between those two things, there's like one year, the gap.

SPEAKER_01 23:51

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 23:51

And I was like, shit, man, from like sneaking in to shoot someone on a main stage to shooting them on a main stage in a year, I was like, not too bad.

SPEAKER_01 23:57

Yeah, that's a very good progression.

SPEAKER_00 24:00

Yeah, yeah. Um and then I do know what the third one I'm still not sure why I chose it. I just chose it because I like it. No, I guess. Um strangely, it's just um it was my first viral picture, like viral, viral, uh, I don't know how to call it. Like um I was out in LA and I had been, there's this magazine called Seaheads magazine, which I think technically I'm still and then still technically an editor at, so I can post things on online, but I've got to do it by request or permission of the owners.

unknown 24:31

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 24:32

But I pitched on a bunch of ideas, like I was, oh, it'd be cool if I went to festivals and did this series called like Meet Me At. Um, and I think I was out in LA and I'd got like press accreditation to some festival out there just to go and hang out with some friends, really. But um took my camera with me anyway, shot all this stuff, and I was like, you know, I like the way it looks. And so I've done this iteration of like meet me at, and um, yeah, they were like, that's this is cool, it looks good. And so after that, I was like, I would love to do something else for Seaheads because a lot of it is all kind of fashion stories and such.

SPEAKER_02 25:03

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 25:04

And um there was this girl, I forget her name, Lauren. Um, but she had this shoot with Madison Beer, who now I think is quite a big star. At the time I had no idea who this was. Uh I was like, oh yeah, cool, some girl. Um, but she was like, Do you want to come shoot video for me? Um, just like help me with the shoot, and I'm like, Yeah, bet I will. And so um I go down to meet her. I think we have some like uh Mutzable soup, which is like delicious, like I don't know, it's like a delicious dumpling thing that a lot of my Jewish friends were always telling me about. So we had that. I remember that vividly being like, Yeah, I don't know why I'm I'm going to that instead of the image, but like I just remember how good that was, I had to say. Um so we meet up, we have this, and then we go to this girl's house, and this woman answers the door. I'm like, hey, nice to meet you, must be it's a really nice house, by the way, in the middle of somewhere in good in LA. Yeah, I'm like, ah, nice to meet you, like I'm Liam. I'm assuming this is the person we're shooting. It's like this woman, she's maybe in her 40s. It's not, it's her mum. I was wrong. And then, yeah, and then it turns out it's actually this girl called Madison who's like this child, like at the time, I think she had just turned 16, like just turned 16. Oh, okay. Um, and so I was like, Well, why are we shooting this girl? I don't have any idea about what she's got going on. And so I'm doing some like just secondary video just to help my friend out, doing it around the house, and I'd noticed we kind of had a little lull between what we were doing, and um, I'm in this by this, she's got this foyer by this big staircase, this big glass staircase in our house. I'm like standing over there with like a telephoto lens, and I noticed that the sun had started to get to a point in the day, and she'd just bought this house, it turns out she it was her house at 16 she'd bought. Crazy. Um yeah, crazy. So she didn't even know it herself. But um we're still standing there, and I'm like, man, you know what? You've got this really nice glass, I think it was a glass chandelier and the staircase. We're causing these like refractions that are only happening because the sun was at this position in the day and we'd been there for so long. Yeah, and I'm like, Oh, I was like, check that out. Like, there's all these cool little color, colourful refractions on the wall over there. And Madison's like, what what do you mean? And I was like, Yeah, like looks like it'd be sick for a photo. And she's like, Oh my god, yeah, bet. And so she like runs over to get this image uh that she's taken on that phone, and I had my camera in my hand anyway, so I just like lifted up and I was like, yo, and I went, yo, she looked at the camera and it caught her in the eye, yeah, and it lit honestly, it looks staged, it's not staged. That is literally that's the most genuine reaction I've ever caught of anybody ever. And it just it I just thought I was like, Yeah, that looks cold. I was like, that's that's a good photo. Um, and so yeah, after the whole thing was said and done, like I just I was like, you know, it's not my piece to upload or anything, but like I've taken these BTS photos, and I at the time I'd been posting a few things from what I'd been up to on my Instagram, and it's doing alright, and so I just posted this image and it just went viral overnight. I got a shed load of followers, like literally like a thousand followers off it, um, immediately. Like, woke up in the morning with like 12,000 views, uh 12,000 likes, like a thousand followers, and all these like uh all these fan groups posting it like Madison, Madison in our home. And I'm like, what the hell's going on, man? Like uh, I think she shared it on her socials. It was like it was like one of those moments where I was like, this is kind of cool. And unfortunately, it did actually cause a falling out with me and the girl that I was there with because I think she was like, I wanted to like drive the images I took of her, like as primary, but I felt like you've taken the wind out of my cells, and I was like, Oh, do you know what? That was never my intention, still to this day, but never my intention. Um, I'm just one of those people, if I take something, I want to share it. Yeah, and uh yeah, and the funny thing is, if anything, since that moment, I've definitely shot myself in the foot and not shared things, I think, almost automatically. Uh not as knee-jerk shared things. I suppose in recent years, I think because of experiences like that making me worried about doing that in case it causes issues with people, in case so now I'm like a bit overly cautious, and I find actually I just don't post that much at all. But like, yeah, I love the image, I think it was funny, it was like nothing crazy, but it was just one of those, it was one of those genuine reactions. You kind of go, ooh, that's something that she didn't even know was in there. She'd never even taken this image in her life. So she's setting her own image up, and I go, yo, she looks at the camera and it just worked, and I was like, okay, I fuck with it. It's a good image, I like it. Maybe I'm wrong, but I I like it.

SPEAKER_01 29:13

Sometimes they're the best photos though. Um just getting something in its natural, it's sometimes nicer than a fully posed photo anyway.

SPEAKER_00 29:22

Yeah, yeah, I think so. Like it just um it's a rarity, isn't it? I do a lot of events uh content and um I've always kind of prided myself on trying to capture those natural reactions. I think more so than a lot of people do a lot of staged heavy flash, like look at the camera. I I've never really liked it. I always try and shoot like you know, at least 50, at least 50, um, 70, kind of 70 mil around that point, and then stand back and shoot natural because people can't see you for the most part. I'm shooting over shoulders and stuff. And I I just prefer a natural reaction. I think a lot of stuff is forced these days. I like the natural stuff.

SPEAKER_01 29:57

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 29:57

But um, no, this was one of those for me.

SPEAKER_01 30:00

That is absolutely great picture. I was going to ask, like, how you got that light effect, but from a chandelier, fair enough.

SPEAKER_00 30:07

Yeah, yeah. Literally just uh, what a weird I think I've got a video that I um I think I was taking a video at the time of the chandelier, like that was cool. And then just kind of mentioned it to her, and then it happened. So I've probably got that somewhere, strangely.

SPEAKER_01 30:19

Well no, but I mean, great photo. I mean, just catching it. Well, the other photographer getting upset because you've used your intuition and got an amazing photo, it's just a weird one anyway.

SPEAKER_00 30:30

I yeah, I mean I I can't comment on it, but yeah, I mean it's I think it's one of those things, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 30:36

Well, I'll comment on it, it's a weird one. So fucking hell. So, how else has photography changed the way like you see everyday life and stuff? Is it has it aided anything? Because it made things more difficult.

SPEAKER_00 30:51

Oh, it's ruined my life, like for sure. Like, I'm sure some people will give you some spiel and say, like, oh yeah, do you know what? It's just to help me see things in a different light. The beauty in the world, it's ruined it, mate. I can't watch movies. Like I'm sitting there, like, oh yeah, I know how they shot that. I'm like, actually, I talked to my girlfriend most times, and she's like trying to get into a scene, and I'm like, I'm that insufferable piece of shit that's like, oh, by the way, I think they shot that like this. I don't care, I'm trying to get in a scene. Yeah, for sure. Okay, cool. I can't, you know, like I can't enjoy a moment sometimes because I'm like, oh man, I wish I had my camera. Like, no, dude. Just what? There's so many, yeah. I don't know, it's it's definitely like a fine line. I think I think I've learned to enjoy moments a little bit more. I appreciate the moments a little bit more for sure. Like there are certain images in my head that I see, and I'm like, oh, that's sick, you know. That that'd make a brilliant image. And it's the duality of that kind of statement where I'm like, shut up, and and then it's also like, but you are right. You you get we start to understand it. That's it, that's what it's all about. Um, yeah, it's a funny one. It's definitely strange. Uh but yeah, it's affecting my life in a positive way, I suppose.

SPEAKER_01 31:58

Well, what I'm hearing is you've um your brain has developed its own light room. So yeah, oh, dude, it's sickening, sickening.

SPEAKER_00 32:05

I can't I can't breathe. It's just always doing something. But yeah, no, it's uh that's alright, yeah, it's good. You know, there's a takeaway from that, and it is that I am uh definitely always thinking about my job. Never leave it, never leave it.

SPEAKER_01 32:21

Well, that leads us quite nicely into the next one. So, what are some of the biggest challenges or insecurities you've had in photography other than spoiling every film?

SPEAKER_00 32:32

Yeah, fuck. Um biggest challenge. I've had tons of challenges. Do you know what tons of I'll I be open with anything about this? Um challenges. Um realizing that you might be overbearing, that's a big one for me to have to overcome. I've got like a lot of stuff going on in my head quite a lot, um, if that wasn't already obvious. Um but it's one of the big things for me is like taking a step back, but I had to definitely have had to teach myself and realize that, like, yeah, okay, you might think it's alright to say certain things. You might think it's okay to like um, and it's never anything that's out of pocket, it's more just like the overbearing nature of some of the like so uh give an example, becoming friendly with someone and then asking for a favour that to me is kind of like I would I'd return that favour quickly, or asking something of a situation is like maybe deemed not okay. I do I've tended to do that a lot in the past where I'm like just asking for favors to kind of help myself along because I know that I only need like a little push over the line. Sometimes that has come into play with work, and it's one of those things, it's been a challenge to overcome, and it is it's just I'm a golden retriever um energy. And I don't mean that in like the he's a nice cuddly dog way, it's just like the annoying, kind of incessant nuisance of the of like a dog kind of being like, hey, hey, hey, you know, like so it's it's a bit like that, and I've definitely had to learn to chill, uh, which is actually to coin something that someone said to me once that I maybe didn't pay attention to at the time, but I've really come to learn was uh a big part of growth. Just learn to chill with a lot of things. Um I think that and one of the biggest challenges is uh pushing yourself over the line. Like this is the big one. I used to have this stupid self self-motto, which was like to stay uncomfortable, uh, to the point where I'd literally, and this sounds insane actually saying this on the podcast. Um I used to I used to force myself to sleep on a bed couch. Uh it's a weird, weird thing. So I was like, if I'm uncomfortable enough at home, I wouldn't want to be at home. I want to go outside, make sure I do things and pursue the yeah, pursue the projects that I'm thinking about, but I'm not acting on. And uh yeah, it worked though. Like it actually worked. Uh strangely, like I just have my brain work, so I've got to make myself do weird shit to like get it done.

SPEAKER_01 34:44

I'm not I'm not sure your joints are gonna thank you for that one.

SPEAKER_00 34:47

Yeah, man, I've got like I've got like fuck knees, you know. It's it's fine. We'll get there. I'll just have a knee replacement or something. Um geez.

SPEAKER_01 34:54

Uh replace your legs. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 34:58

Mate, I'd do it. I'd uh yeah, no, it's it's definitely that, man. It's uh I think put one of the biggest, yeah, the biggest thing is literally just like I've I've turned down so many opportunities. Um not because of any other reason, I think, other than just the fact I didn't believe that I was gonna be able to do it, or like you know, a lot of people tell you like you've got to learn to find your place before you can run with the walls, or this kind of sip shit. Um like genuinely I heard that uh or a version of that from someone once, and I was like, what the fuck am I doing? Um what kind of industry is this? Uh not one I want to be a part of, but um yeah, I just I I thought, you know, like shit, if I feel like I'm capable of doing something, and I I run enough tests of me like some very much if I'm gonna try something out, I'll run a test on it first to make sure that I can do something that's similar at home. Like, yeah. Oh I can shoot that, I've done that before. I'll just go out and like shoot something similar and like go go home, edit it, see how quickly I can do that and how how I can get to a best fit in the fastest way possible. Then I'll come back to them and be like, no, I totally can do that, let's do it. But um, but yeah, I I would so often like just say, Oh, I'm too scared to, and I wouldn't do it, or I'd be scared. So I there's a period in my career as well where it kind of took a dip, I took a big financial hit, yeah, and um huge financial hit, and I was just like um, you know, just falling apart as a person, gaining weight, um, quite a lot of weight, like kind of closing off, drinking way too much as well. And then I was just turning down options and like uh decisions that could have helped me financially. I think about just taking a leap of faith again, but um was just not in a I wasn't in a mental place to do so like at all. Like, so you just kind of put yourself in a box, and I think a lot of people do it. Like I I get uh approached quite a lot at jobs, strangely, uh, by people that are like would-be photographers or people that want to get into the industry, and it's like I just don't know how to take the next step, man. I want to be just like you, and I'm like, Well, fat and depressed, yeah, sure, okay. Um can't enjoy Can't even enjoy a fucking movie, mate. What are you talking about? No, yeah, it's um I don't know, it's just it's just one of those things I think a lot of people definitely cope with. And uh it just falls into the mental health conversation. I don't really want to touch on that so much because I don't want to make it depressing, but like it's um something that a lot of people can learn from themselves, just like fucking I don't know, change your environment and accept things that you wouldn't usually accept, and accept that it's gonna make you feel real fucking uncomfortable. And if you feel uncomfortable, usually it's a sign of growth because you have to get your head around it, you're not gonna just sit there and cry, are you? Dad's not gonna come pick you up. Like you fucking just you gotta you gotta like fucking understand that you're in a situation you need to grow to, and otherwise it's it's gonna eat you up. And so I think yeah, that's the biggest, that's the biggest lesson I've learned from any of it is like um in career, just don't say no to shit just because you're worried you can't do it. Like just figure out if you can do it. Yeah, don't like take too long, don't waste someone's time, obviously. Don't be like, yeah, maybe let me just take a week, like no, they want to know like so they've got other candidates. Like think about it, run a test if you can, do whatever you need to fucking do, and then just say yes or no. It's that simple. If you don't want to do it, don't do it. But like if you feel like it's you know, you you're missing out on more than you're not missing out on, you know?

SPEAKER_01 38:01

Yeah, of course.

SPEAKER_00 38:02

Yeah, that's that's my takeaway. It could be wrong, and again, it's just a bias, so it's my own personal experience, but like that's what I've learned from it, and that's where I've come out on the other end.

SPEAKER_01 38:10

So it's a good place to be. I mean, you you learn from the lessons, don't you? You don't you you n if you if you stay still, you go backwards. That's a common saying, isn't it?

SPEAKER_00 38:20

Yeah, yeah, exactly, right?

SPEAKER_01 38:23

So my final question to you, and this is always the one that I think catches most people out because you know it's hard to it's hard to admit what you want. But um put your bank details. Yeah, well, you know, that that's the one after. Um what where do where do you hope your photography takes you personally or creatively in the future?

SPEAKER_00 38:44

Oh, dude, so it's funny you say it's a hard one. I've already got the answer. That's super simple. I don't want to do it. I don't want to do it in like the next three years, I don't want it as a career in like the next two. Um, I think I I like what I've learned from all of this is that if I'm gonna do it in any capacity, I want to do it on like one or two jobs a year at most that I choose. Yeah, and I want them to be passion, passion projects or longstanding clients that I have a really, really wonderful relationship with because I think a lot of this is turned into and this sounds so negative, and it's not supposed to. I love photography, I love the space, I love the people. Everyone in photography that I've ever met has had this little ray of sunshine coming out of their fucking ass, and it's lovely, and everyone's super nice, and everyone wants the best, da. But it's just it's a competitive industry, and I think there's not really a space to grow, uh maybe not at the moment in the UK, and I think that constant um stress from like am I getting enough uh work, am I getting the right work? You you start accepting things that maybe aren't, you know, your favourite jobs, and I think then because you're filling the gaps where you should be just creatively fulfilling yourself, yeah, you start to accept these jobs to take away a little bit of shine that you have as a person, and then that in tail affects the way you wanted to have this relationship with the creative thing you love doing. Um it's a silly, it's a silly thing, I suppose. Um I'm not trying to go off on a tangent, but it's uh definitely the takeaway I've had is I don't want to see a future with it. I just want to have it as a as a friend for life, you know. I wanna I want to look at this year to year and say, ah, what you've been up to? Oh, you know, I want it to be like a fun little kind of back and forth with it. I want I want to have like maybe yeah, one or two clients that I can go and do a couple jobs with a year that I really like and have if I had to change my career right now, I want to be a pilot, dude. I want to fly planes, I don't I want to be doing this just forever. That's my that's what I really want to be trying to get into in the next year or so. But um, it's that or it's some kind of creative directing. I don't know, even just uh even just accounts manager, man. I'm like, I just want to switch up that and like have photography remain like this holy thing that I I've kind of you know, because for me it is just it's a personal thing, and I think I've realized that more and more when it's been tu torn and pulled in different places, and it's just it's become like this ugly thing that I do now, a little dance that I do for a bit of money. But no, it's it's I just want to keep it, I want to keep it precious to myself, and I think the only way to do that is to kind of really pull back and not have it as uh primary career. Um, but just to do it when I feel you know I can put some love behind it, you know.

SPEAKER_01 41:20

Yeah, yeah, no, I know what you're saying, I fully get it.

SPEAKER_00 41:23

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 41:26

Well, that's that's all the questions that I've got for you today, so I'm not gonna fry your brain any further. Um sweet. I am very grateful for you coming on the podcast today. Um I will link your pictures, your Instagram, everything else to the show notes and to the Click and Converse um Click and Converse podcast Instagram as well. That's a mouthful. Um is there anything uh if if people wanted to other than Instagram, is there anywhere else anyone can find your images?

SPEAKER_00 41:58

Yeah, I mean I've got a website, um, it's just my name.co.uk because it's original, you know, like www.my name.co.uk. That's fun. Seems fitting. Um, yeah, man, I think I think I think you've covered all my bases. Uh yeah, no, I don't know.

SPEAKER_01 42:18

No, but perfect. Well thank again, thank you for coming on and yeah, I hope you I hope you had a good time.

SPEAKER_00 42:25

Thanks. Thanks so much, Jeff. Yeah, thanks for having me. There's uh one of those things I think I've always loved talking. Uh I think I've always loved talking and setting voice notes, but it's like it's a different kind of thing when you do, you know, you're doing a a podcast or anything like this, where there's a back and forth with expected responses, because uh I thought I was good at it. And then you start talking and I've like nest up three times and like, can I do it again? You're like, yeah, yeah, sure.

SPEAKER_01 42:48

That's that's what the edit's for. Don't worry about that.

SPEAKER_00 42:51

No, but okay, cool. Yeah, well, yeah, no, thanks for having me, man. It's been really um it's been fun. It's also fun to talk about stories and kind of like have that back and forth. So I'm I'm curious to to listen to the rest of yours now. I think I'm now you've now got yourself a viewer as well. Brilliant.

SPEAKER_01 43:08

Well, yeah, no, thank you for coming on. And yeah, I'll hopefully um yeah, once everyone listens to it, they'll be jumping on your Instagram and your website.

SPEAKER_00 43:17

I appreciate it, Jeff. Yeah, thank you. I only see like my stuff though. I don't want to I don't want to have voice.

SPEAKER_01 43:22

No, I'm sure they'll love it. The pictures I've seen are amazing.

SPEAKER_00 43:25

No, I appreciate you, bro. Okay, cool.

SPEAKER_01 43:27

Alright, cheers, mate. Thank you very much.

SPEAKER_00 43:29

Thanks, Jeff. See you later.

SPEAKER_01 43:31

Bye bye. That brings us to the end of today's episode with Liam. If you want to see more of Liam's work, please visit his Instagram and his website. Both will be linked into the show notes of this site and will be on the Instagram page. And please will you like, share, and subscribe to the podcast. See you at the next one.