Walk #2 - Elderescence

In which the dynamic duo head to the Malvern Hills, for a challenging walk, and DAS creates a new word in an effort to get something off his chest about the word 'retirement'.

Peter goes public on his lack of love for all things JR Tolkien and DAS shows off about his knowledge of Malvern and surroundings.

They also outline the walking and studio plans for the podcast series in 2026, and for this they need your help.

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:19

Walking into retirement, an unusual podcast about finding purpose, meaning and balance after a busy working life with David Ailing Smith and Peter Taylor. Exploring the emotional, psychological and practical realities of modern retirement through a series of reflective conversations undertaken whilst walking scenic routes across the UK.

SPEAKER_02 0:40

Here we are, Dad, on top of the Molvern Hills. Well, nearly on top of Molvern Hills.

SPEAKER_01 0:44

How are you doing? Good, good. I think it's a walk I'd like to have done 30 years ago before I retired because it was very steep. But a beautiful view. We're looking across now to the Seven Valleys and the Black Mountains in Wales, and it's a beautiful scene. And did you did you know you can see three cathedrals from here, Peter?

SPEAKER_02 1:04

Oh, you're off already. Oh, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:06

Welcome to staggering into retirement with Daz and Peter. Three cathedrals, can you, Dann? Yeah, you can see three cathedrals. And the Morgan Hills is a is a beautiful bit of Pre-Cambian rock that extends 14 kilometres north of the spa town. You've been researching. And it spans three counties actually. We're on the border of three counties at the moment.

SPEAKER_02 1:29

I know, Dadis, you've got lots of facts, and you do want to share. You told me something on the when you leave the car park, we leave the coffee shop where we were, it's an incredibly steep path or road to get up to start with. Yes. But they used to um have donkeys taking you up there, but there were no donkeys today. Yeah. But you were telling me something about uh people who've walked here.

SPEAKER_01 1:47

Well, it's uh it's um there's some famous people that have lived here. Um, Elgar, Ed Edward Elgar, the famous British composer, was born here, buried not too far away. But I think my my fun fact is that C.S. Lewis walked here with J.R.R. Tolkien. I like the fact they both got initials, they feel like England cricketers, England cricketers do that as well. They have initials in front of their names. So C. S. Lewis, uh The Lion, the Witch in the Wardrobe, uh, walked here with J.R. Tolkien. Okay, Lord of the Rings. And in fact, Tolkien credited the the the White Mountains of Gondor to the Molvern Hills. So there we are, that's my fun fact.

SPEAKER_02 2:23

Peter now has a really glazed expression on his face because he is not by any means a fan of Tolkien. But I understand the the the uh it has cultural significance for many of us. For many, many people. I understand that, yeah. Absolutely. But yeah, I mean the view is the view is amazing. It's beautiful. It is beautiful, but I know there is something bothering you.

SPEAKER_01 2:42

Well, do you want to get it off your chest now? Uh yeah, why not? So, as you know, I've this podcast is called Walking into Retirement. Yeah. And I don't like the word retirement. You know that, and people who know me know I and I've been you've been difficult, I've been thinking. I've been thinking about why do I not like the word retirement? And so I think as a way of framing what we're going to talk about, we need to define this a bit better. And you know how in our in our world, when you go through transformations and you have projects, if you're going to do something new for the first time, there's a there's a trick really where you invent a word. You invent a word to describe it because that word's never been used before, and you can imbue that word with whatever you want. Whereas existing words are imbued with all the things that those words actually mean.

SPEAKER_02 3:27

Well, yeah, I'm you know, I'm a supporter of that because I you know I created the word erudigenous to win an argument with my wife Juliet. So yes.

SPEAKER_01 3:32

There we go. So I so so far you're with me? I'm with you so far. So I think that retirement is the wrong word for what we are going through right now, and so so think about you know, as as if you think about the lifespan of a human being, you're you're you're a child and then you go through something called adolescence. And adolescence being that sort of that transition between childhood and adulthood, and it's full of hormones, new realities, new adventures, new discoveries, wisdom, context, place in the world. And I like that as a as a phrase to describe a transition of a person from one state to another. There's another word which is not so well known, matriesscence, which is the making of a mother. It's the word used to describe the process that women go through when they give birth, which again is full of emotional, hormonal, psychological components. And so for me, I think we need a word like that to describe the transition from full-time working life to being older.

SPEAKER_02 4:40

Now I started as a struggle now because I think what you're trying to tell the listeners or myself is that you are going through a hormonally driven difficult period in your life.

SPEAKER_01 4:49

Again, yes, that's right. So I offer you uh the world I offer you the word eldorescence. Elderescence. So think about matrescence, think about adolescence. So the process of well, the making of an elder. And the word elder, I quite like, and and thank you, Dale, for sort of helping me with this one because I was previously I was thinking about seniors, matures, and they've all got they've all got negative connotations for me as well. Yeah. So and you think about the way you use the word elder, I mean it has spiritual significance in some faiths, but it but you know how you don't disrespect your elders. You don't say don't disrespect your elders, do you? There's something about that. Alright, so we're on the cusp of a this is a brand new word. Well, uh, it's a word that I did invent, but I googled it, and there is actually there are a couple of people out there in the Tinternet who have adopted it as well for the same reasons. And there's there's there's a there's an Eldorescence Academy, I think, in California, and it's basically its aims, as far as I recall, are to age gracefully. It's all to do with the process of aging. So I think retirement's the wrong word. Think about perhaps retirement is to a wedding, what eldorescence is to a marriage. And so I can deal with retirement as a set piece event, a milestone, if you like. But the process of maturing as an older person outside of work, I think needs a lot more, needs a bigger word to describe all the emotional, psychological, mental changes and hormonal, yes, Peter, that one goes through. So actually, I think this is about aging. I think this is about about the psychology of aging. Okay.

SPEAKER_02 6:28

I've got to agree with you because otherwise you could have a little tempter temper tantrum sort of stomping around Morgan Hills. All right, okay, let's go with that. Um, but there is a word senescence, isn't there? Which is which just means to get old. Yes. And you're not going you're not going for that word.

SPEAKER_01 6:41

Well, no, that I think that's the process of aging, which there that you know that that's a word that describes a lot of the negative things that I think that maybe what's happening when one retires is you start contemplating aging. And I think that's perhaps for some people why it's such a loaded, such a loaded phrase. So, you know, uh trying to link back to what we said about the famous people that live like C. S. Lewis famously wrote about you know a portal in the wardrobe where the protagonists step through into Narnia. I wonder whether retirement is actually like a portal that you you get retired and then you're in a different land, and it can be wonderful and it can be terrible. And I think it's a deeply individual and personal experience for people. So a lot of what we talk about won't resonate with people because that's not how they see it. But I it's it's it's something about ageing, but it's also something about opportunity. And you know, last time we spoke, I talked about the sort of the dichotomies of that I thought about in terms of having you know people who've had very, very sort of long, busy careers which have been incredibly satisfying, and then not having that. Um, so for example, when one's busy at work, there are a lot of things you'd like to do that you put off, and when you're retired, you've got time to do them. But of course, that then means you have a choice. And it made me think about in fact, one of our listeners keyed me up on this and said that she said that one of the things she was concerned about was that choice might mean she actually might lose her freedom because, for example, she might need to go back and look after her parents. I mean, our generation sometimes calls the sandwich generation, isn't it? Where it has, you know, it has parents who are partially you know we care for, and and and grandchildren perhaps that we partially care for as well. And so outside of the strictures of work, there's choice, and I think there's a tyranny in choice that some people are very, very uh wary of and worried about because it means that they may be obliged through conscience, through morality, through need for money to do things that actually they don't want to do, and actually, while they were working, they didn't have to make those decisions.

SPEAKER_02 8:44

Okay, I like that. So tyranny of choice is an interesting phrase. So I think that's the crux of really where we started this whole thing off because you know if we reflect back um you know to our grandparents, there was no tyranny of choice for most of them. It was a you work, you get top, you are retired. Yep. Um and when you're retired, you relax. You know, you know, if I think of my my grandfather or my other grandfather, you know, they read the paper, they bought the dog, they went to the pub, uh, they got together with their friends and played dance and stuff like that. But that was you know, it was very clear, it was very kind of black and white. You hit 65, you stopped. And you know, unfortunately, a lot of them didn't you didn't live that long afterwards because it was funny. Now, you know, the today's world, our world, for many, many people, not everybody, but for many people, it is a much wider transitional period um that where they have these sort of choices. So, okay, um well let's why don't we carry on walking? And I think we're gonna come back to uh I think we need to talk about elders, if honest, because yeah, you're you're you're pivoting this entire word that you've made up that somebody else has already used. Interesting.

SPEAKER_01 9:50

Parallel evolution happens all the time.

SPEAKER_02 9:52

Okay, fine. All right, then have you have you copyrighted in the comments? We'll get it in a blog, should we?

SPEAKER_01 9:56

No, I that's why I need you to do that.

SPEAKER_02 9:58

Okay, fine. All right, we're gonna carry on walking up because we're not right at the top of the hill yet. I was just taking a breather, really. Um, and then we'll come back and I think we need to explore elders because I've got in my mind what an elder is, and I think a lot of listeners will, so I'm interested to see how you pivot that to what we're talking about.

SPEAKER_01 10:12

And I'd also like to talk about some of the dilemmas associated with triangle, because I think that might give us a uh some framing of some of the content of our walk. So uh one of our listeners um very gently uh berated me for not for meandering, I think, on the last on the last podcast and wanted a list, like the lists.

SPEAKER_02 10:33

You were, yeah, I in our previous um incarnation as as the squidders, we did have a little, you did like a list, didn't you? But I got yeah, in list, is this gonna work? I don't know. You might maybe go freeform. Okay, fine. There we go. All right. Well, okay, well, that's good. We're on a nice bench now, uh looking down over Mulvern, which looks very, very pretty from this distance. It's quite pretty.

SPEAKER_01 10:59

Do you know Peter? It's famous. One of the reasons developed in the Victorian area, yeah. Okay. Actually, that north hill was quite challenging, wasn't it? It was, that's why we're sitting down now and we've waited a few minutes to get our breath back. Uh have you noticed that the other people walking today all look as though they're retired? And they didn't seem to be out of breath, are they? No. It is a Monday morning though, isn't it? So um yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 11:22

Well you you you've had quite a while on your Peloton, so I think you're you're fitter than I am at the moment. I haven't played squash for many months due to uh my wife's injury, so uh yeah, I'm out of condition. So these walks are good for me.

SPEAKER_01 11:33

But there we go.

SPEAKER_02 11:34

There we go. Anyway, um I think the debate was going to be what do you mean by elder? Because I you say elder, I mean I immediately go to I guess sort of some of the indigenous groups on the planet who respect their elders. I was I was you know, in between by gasping and getting my breath. I mentioned that there was a wonderful thing which is where I think in Japanese companies that they allow some old people to just stay at work, they don't have to do anything and they get paid. And I said that sounds like a perfect next career step for me. Um but so so I think there's a you know, I think explore this because there isn't there is a um there is there is a particular idea that people have when you talk about elders.

SPEAKER_01 12:16

Yes. Well, I just thinking about what you just said about older people at work, actually I I feel quite strongly that it's a resource that uh organisations and societies actually don't take advantage of. So if you think you know younger, younger people have degree to. Well, I think it's quite clever. You know, younger people uh you know generalise, you know, they're I think the term is their brains are more elastic, they can learn more quickly, they've got energy, you know, enthusiasm, optimism. Uh we've got big plane coming over. Okay. Um, you know, you hear the phrase it's a young man's game or young woman's game to work in a high pressure industry. But of course, uh as as as people at work age, they they gain wisdom, you know, they've had experience, and that's a very powerful component of working life and life as a whole, which I think when blended with uh energy, vim, vigour, youthful exuberance, is a fantastic combination. You sometimes see it in sports teams, don't you, where you have sort of a an older player pulling the strings in midfield and the and the younger guys are you know pacing up front and all that sort of thing. And I think at work it's it's a missed opportunity, I think, for lots of organisations. But anyway, you're asking me about elders. I was asking about elders, so yeah, we get back to that now. Well, I think I think if you you know the definition of elder is is it has got a spiritual meaning to it for lots of cultures and for lots of religions as well. Um but I it also I think means uh you know a wise older person in the community. I I like I like the I like the tone of the word elder versus versus older. And I think also that sort of the that that you know, I was joking really, but the the the the thought of having elder essence as being sort of a multiple-year journey into becoming an elder with growth, adventure, choices, recognitions, and maybe even enlightenment. I mean, you know, if if there's a spiritual component to being an elder, maybe there is something that you learn about being on this planet by becoming older if you choose to to look hard enough. So I think it's a it's a worthy word that I think actually could be used in the context of leaving work, and but it's a it's a it's a process, it's not a it's not an event, as I as I said before.

SPEAKER_02 14:27

Okay. Wisdom in the community, that sounds interesting. It's not care in the community, it's wisdom in the community.

SPEAKER_01 14:32

That's what you're advocating, yes. It could be both, yes. It could be both. But you know, if we talk about the CSUS portal from retiring into you know the oh, you say we're talking about it, you were talking about it, really.

SPEAKER_02 14:45

Okay, but I I I'm getting fond of this question.

SPEAKER_01 14:48

Okay, fine. Um I think one of the reasons it's tricky. Well, it's very individualistic, as we said before, but I think one of the reasons it's tricky for people is that I think it is it and it has been for me a sort of a recognition that it's a milestone towards ageing. And you know, in business terms, um if you think about the way we you've used KPIs all our lives, I think retirement is a leading indicator to death. Leading indicator to death. Well, I about the statistics say and that focus is a book is the title of the new book, leading indicator to death. A higher proportion of people who die are retired than aren't. So you know, I think it's a thing, I think it's a milestone on the way to aging, and I think that's one of the reasons people have problems with it because it is about contemplating your own mortality. I think you check that. It's an interesting statistic you just came out with. I made it up. I did. Well, I'm gonna check that when I get back, actually. Is that true? But it logically is it should be true. But again, it's one of these dilemmas which I love. It I mean, leaving work for some people literally saves their lives, I think, because of the pressure and the stress associated with a lot of work. Well, you're much happier. And and and uh, you know, people's I mean, look at the number of I just think about men who have heart attacks at work. I mean, it's just it's a nut it's a thing, isn't it, that that actually the pressure at work can can you know shorten people's lives and it can actually kill them. Well I'm just thinking that but so when you when you're not working, yeah, that pressure comes off, which is just wonderful, but you then actually you you are in a position to contemplate your mortality over a longer time period. That's true. And I think for some people that's a bit of a burden.

SPEAKER_02 16:25

Well, I was gonna the comment I the observation I was gonna make actually, which came to me then, is that and I not just you but other people I think there is a very interesting pre-transition period. Yeah, you had an idea that you were going to I'm using well, retire. You you were becoming you were gonna go through the portal. You're gonna go through the portal essence, you're gonna go through the portal. Yeah. I I didn't like Richard Wardrobe either, I'll be honest. No. Um, but yeah, but there was a period of time which I I think you found it very difficult to maintain what's needed to be maintained at work. And I've seen it in other people when they know they've got like a year to go, they're just waiting for the the expedition. Really? Do you think I stopped trying? No, I don't think you stopped trying. I just think you found it harder to maintain the level of your investment in the business. Um uh increasing because you you know the clock is ticking and it's gonna end. You know that whatever you're doing is gonna be taken over and replaced by other people, you know, you know, it's it's the bucket of water syndrome. You know, we know that when we leave, actually, you know, our we'll be remembered for a while. But after that, where does the bucket of water come in? Well, the fact that you can take some water out of a bucket of water and it looks exactly the same afterwards. Oh you know, you have removed something, but okay, all right, yeah, the level goes down. But but the point is the bucket of water looks the same. I'm sure it's a very famous analogy. Okay. That I probably could use.

SPEAKER_01 17:46

I think that was a good one. If you'd explain that better, I think that would have been brilliant.

SPEAKER_02 17:48

Yeah, okay, fine. Well, in the edit, you know what's possible here. I gotta I'm gonna sound fantastic. I mean, the wind won't be in the on the mic anymore, mysteriously, but you know. True. But no, I think that's I think that's true. There's there's almost you know, there's like almost pre maybe that's maybe it's uh early onset almer essence. Is that possible? I don't know. I don't know. I've thrown in now.

SPEAKER_01 18:09

Yes. Well, I I still want to talk about these dilemmas because I think they represent for me taps in the book. Yeah, because I think each one of these, you know, each one of these the wonderful things that that are possible through going through the portal, I think actually cause dilemmas as well for people in different ways. And so you know, I mentioned someone mentioned to me about the challenge of perhaps after work being obliged to enter into you know a situation of being a carer. And so if you think about when you when you retire, you that wonderful, liberating, exhilarating moment when you think you can pursue your hobbies, your interests, you know, all those passions that you haven't had the time to do. But then when you reflect, perhaps when you've got the time, you've got choices to make, and you actually still may not be able to do them because of other pressures on your time. And there are, I think there are hidden realities that come out during retirement. I think also we talked about this last time about maybe retirement can teach us something about work and how to enjoy work in the sense of you know when it's gone you miss certain things, and so what are those things and try and join them more while you're working. And I and I've also been thinking about you know, we talked a lot about the importance of making mistakes at work, in that that's where you learn. Yep, and it encouraged me to make many mistakes. Yeah, you've done very well at that particular uh achievement, Peter. But I was thinking about regrets, thinking about how as you sort of look back on your life or as you you contemplate the things you've done, there are mistakes from which you grow, and then there are regrets, and I think regrets are much, much harder to deal with than mistakes. And so I think there's a lesson there about as you contemplate what you're gonna do with the time you've got in your retirement. For me, you know, one of the lists I'd love to make with you is don't have any regrets, just make sure that those things you want to do, you do.

SPEAKER_02 19:58

Okay, well, on that, I think we should pour. It's getting a little bit windy up here. I'm conscious of our listeners not having to listen to the wind in the mics. I don't think how bad it is. Let's move further down the hill and continue this conversation.

SPEAKER_01 20:07

Very good.

SPEAKER_02 20:10

Okay, here we go. Um a little bit lower down the hill. I mean, I'm trying to get I'm trying to keep you on our journey here because we will we are going to describe the walks as well. Yeah. So if you want to do them or look up where we are, and we're gonna share some photos on the website, yeah, which will be available by the end of this month, March.

SPEAKER_01 20:26

Um, but do you think going down the hill um is a metaphor for that rather sad phrase I just came up with about doing the onset uh adolescence?

SPEAKER_02 20:36

Regret, I was thinking. Oh, regret.

SPEAKER_01 20:38

Because whilst I think these dilemmas are interesting, I don't want this podcast to be sort of fatalistic and sad because I think retirement is a wonderful one.

SPEAKER_02 20:48

We should be reflecting and agreed. You know, we do also have the intention of getting some people on, don't we? On the podcast. People who have gone through various various aspects of this. But no, continue, continue with your your regret. No, no, I've done regret now.

SPEAKER_01 21:02

So I'm just saying I think I think the regret's the the hardest thing to deal with. Okay. So I think I'm encouraging people to make mistakes and go for stuff rather than regret a bit. So that will need to come out on the list at some point. And I think the hugely positive thing about going through the portal.

SPEAKER_02 21:16

Um, we're talking about bloody portals, and we're gonna fall out.

SPEAKER_01 21:21

Enough with the portal. It's the opportunity, and you know, in our in the Squid of Despair podcast where we talked about transformation, it it was all about change, a resistance to change, and the what the sort of the power of transformation was through technology. But I think this is similar. I think the opportunity for people when they stop work to embrace new realities, to learn new skills, to discover new places, to make new friends, to reacquaint themselves with um you know people that they haven't yet met. I I just think it's it's a wonderful, wonderful time. But of course, as we know, any sort of transform transformation change can be. Very destabilizing, can be frightening, and often we're not equipped to deal with it. If you think about some of the things that perhaps we're going to embark upon as we stop work, we're not we don't have the skills for it, don't have the experience for it. So the things that have helped us be successful in our working lives are not necessarily things that are going to help us have a long and happy eldorescence.

SPEAKER_02 22:20

Well, there is, I think, you know, on the way up again, we we talk a little bit about structure, and and that's part of it, isn't it? If you have a job, if you're employed, there's a structure. Whether you're self-employed or you work for someone, there is a there is some form of structure that allows you to work through the day, work through the week, work through the years. So that vaporizes when you move into non-work.

SPEAKER_01 22:42

But then there's different sort of more metaphysical structures that are available to you. I think when you're not working, when you're not driven by corporate uh timelines or business requirements or nine to five type shifts. And you know, the lot of a lot of religions talk about you know the harmony of of ageing and and you know contentment. There are there are possibilities that of of of happiness, different flavours of happiness, I think, that are, I don't think, so accessible through work. But of course, that destabilizing lots of structure thing you talked about is the flip side of that coin. So I think it's absolutely fascinating. The possibilities are enormous, but I think the challenges are quite great, which is why we're doing this, isn't it? Because it feels like it's not something that I've certainly read much about, and it feels like it's a good opportunity to talk. Um, the other thing I think we we should just dip into occasionally is obviously when you stop work, one of the big definitions of that is you've stopped earning money, and so that represents a change in lifestyle for lots of people where perhaps they happen to contemplate going without, there might be real hardships, or certainly having to reassess where they want to spend the money. And again, those sort of choices I think are new for people sometimes who perhaps have had well-paid jobs and have been in employment all their lives, which I think is just part of the transformation and and and decision making, you know, the the tyranny of choice that people find themselves in when they're retired.

SPEAKER_02 24:09

Yeah, well, you know, if we reflect on our own lives, really, you know, we've we've been very fortunate in the business we've been in. We uh we've traveled a lot, we've uh enjoyed some some great experiences uh through work travel and you shouldn't mention a hot tub, Peter. Um and you know, eaten in some fantastic reference uh restaurants and we've seen some amazing uh speakers. You know, it's it's been a very uh blessed career in in that way. And yes, you know, to maintain that in retirement is you know, apart from a very small number of people.

SPEAKER_01 24:44

Yes, but I offer you the Morgan Hills. I mean, how beautiful is this? Gorgeous. You know, we walked up here, it hasn't cost us anything to come up here. We're sitting chatting about you know important topics to us, looking at this fantastic view across to Wales. You know, that doesn't cost a thing, and and it's sort of probably more fundamentally important than you know, you having the Bollinger in the hot tub. Oh, sorry.

SPEAKER_02 25:07

We're not talking about that story. Uh and to be fair, we did have to pay for the car park, but it was only only three pounds, I think, wasn't it? It was quite cheap. Yeah, it's very good. I I'd like to talk now, if I may, um uh drag you out of your portal and and just want to I want to talk to the listeners about what we're aiming to do with this. So you know the structure's gonna be you and I are gonna go on some walks. We talked about six walks during the year, yeah, which will culminate towards the end of the year with uh Northumbrian walk for Macmillan. Yeah. So you know, we'll be looking for sponsors soon. Um, but yes, that that great walk, which will be uh one of the coastal walks we're gonna do. Um, but in between those six walks where we will we'll discuss things and and record, obviously, we are also going to reach out to a number of people to talk about a specific topic. So I mean, already, you know, you you've touched on someone was talking about you know that that the the challenge of of you know care in retirement. Yeah, um, someone else has reached out to us and talked to us about the fact you know it took a year to transition into a state of or a mental state of retirement. Yeah, um, you know, I think there are you know, there's also the consideration of the career breaks taken through um choices or non-choices, but you know, certainly typically, you know, women you know they go through motherhood and that it forces a career break. Yeah, I think another one is um you know the the kind of mix. Um, you know, if you know, if I think about our own relationship, you know, my wife is younger than me, so when I finally reach that state of retirement, she's gonna still be working. So you know, I think she's quite pleased with that, to be honest.

SPEAKER_03 26:39

Delighted, I think.

SPEAKER_02 26:40

Yeah, but yeah, there's two, there's two problems. There's the the joint retirement and getting used to being with each other all the time, and then there is the split retirement of the ones working and one's not working. Um, so there's a whole series of topics, I think, that we can, you know, we'd love to engage with people and just talk to them on a studio-based podcast episode. Yes. Um, and just explore that. So, yeah, please, if you have something like that, you you know the website will be live, it will be called walking into retirement.com. Yep. You can reach out to us there, and we'd we'd love to engage in conversations and share as broader conversations around this topic as as as as we can.

SPEAKER_01 27:15

So, so going back to my weddings and marriage metaphor. So I knew you could explain that eventually. So we're not so much doing wedding planning, we're more doing marriage guidance, is that what we're saying? Yeah, okay, absolutely. That the couples thing is interesting because you know we've all got friends that have retired, and I think you know couples have different expectations about retirement. And in many cases, one of the couples you know is looking forward to spending more time with their other half, and the other half has a career or has got a passion that they want to continue to pursue, and actually that doesn't come to fruition in that in that way. So it as everyone's experience of retirement will be different. I think couples' experience of retirement of each other retirement will be different. Um, and I think yeah, we'll get some couples up here on therapy.

SPEAKER_02 28:03

I think it would be I feel like I feel like we, you know, if we're gonna go to California or we're gonna have like a you know a kind of Aldorescence community site or you know, retreat or something like that.

SPEAKER_01 28:12

I quite like the Aldorescence Academy. I do like that idea. Okay, absolutely. I'm gonna have to get a calf down, I think.

SPEAKER_02 28:17

Shall we continue down the hill at this point? What metaphorically or literally? Oh, in every way possible. Um, yes, and um yeah, I think we can wrap things up when we get to the bottom of that very steep hill. Very steep, yeah. Where um where there still are no donkeys. Right here we are, we're back down in Bournemouth. There'll be traffic noises, etc. But I think I've enjoyed that. Thank you. Uh great walk.

SPEAKER_01 28:38

I was I enjoyed it very much. It feels like we've got lots of topics to cover. It feels like we're still being introductory.

SPEAKER_02 28:45

Yes, it's early days, early days. But um, how about we reach out to our listeners? Hopefully, they're gonna grow in numbers over the over the time. But um tell us what you think about Daz's new word, uh Alverescence. Um tell us what you think. Can you come up with a better word? Because I'll be honest, Daz, it's not rolling off my tongue a bit. But I need to use it a bit.

SPEAKER_01 29:07

Yeah, I think that's right. You've got to give it some minute time. Um, and it does broaden out the discussion a bit. I recognise that. But uh for me, I think it's a big topic, and I think it needs a big word. Okay. So that's where that came from. I just have to say, we have a standing by sign on a pub called the Unicorn, and I'm rather enjoying this, and it's got two members. One member says massive effing hill, and the other member member pointing the other way says nice point. So I know which one I'm not one.

SPEAKER_02 29:33

We've done the hill. We've done the hill. And on that bombshell, thanks very much, Dad. Thanks, Peter. Bye.

SPEAKER_00 29:39

You have been listening to Walking Into Retirement, an unusual podcast about finding purpose, meaning, and balance after a busy working life with David Ailing Smith and Peter Taylor. Find out more at www.walkingintoretirement.com. And why not share your own retirement stories with the hosts?