#6 Positivity - The many potential benefits of retirement - Pen Y Fan

Whilst ascending a physical and metaphorical mountain DAS and Peter discuss the many benefits of a future state of retirement that can strengthen relationships by allowing more quality time with family, friends, and community.

They also explore creating space for improved wellbeing, thereby giving people more time to focus on physical health, mental relaxation, and activities that genuinely bring joy. 

And discuss the freedom to explore new interests or revisit old passions, whether that’s travel, hobbies, learning, or volunteering, all of which can lead to a stronger sense of purpose and happiness.

And Peter chooses the next walk, which will be flat.

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:19

Walking into retirement is an unusual podcast about finding purpose, meaning and balance after a busy working life with David Ailing Smith and Peter Taylor. Exploring the emotional, psychological, and practical realities of modern retirement through a series of reflective conversations undertaken whilst walking scenic groups across the UK.

SPEAKER_01 0:40

Wow, that's quite a few to start, isn't it?

SPEAKER_02 0:44

It is. We are in Wales, and we're staring up at the highest mountain in South Wales, Pennyvan, and looking forward to it. A very windy day, but beautifully bright.

SPEAKER_01 0:55

I mean, you I don't know if people can hear this on the podcast, but there's uh uh a river, it's a little more than babbling, it's it's cascading over stones. There's got like a stepping stone across there, but there is a bridge as well. Um, there are sheep to the left in a sort of little micro valley on the right hand side. There is a very, very steep, big hill.

SPEAKER_02 1:18

Yeah. Well, it's you know, those of those of our listeners who know Pennyvan, it's uh it's it's fun fact, Peter coming up, 886 metres high. Okay. Um but it's not even within the top ten ice mountains in Wales, they're all in Snowdia. Ah, I've been up there, but it was on a train. That's the way to do it, isn't it? Yes. Yeah, Snowden being the highest at over a thousand metres. Um this probably doesn't even feature in the top 20, but it is the highest mountain in South Wales and in southern Great Britain as well. So, no, looking forward to doing it with you.

SPEAKER_01 1:53

Yeah, and it is windy. Uh we accept that there is wind. We're doing our best to huddle down behind a stone wall with some coffee. Um, but yes, what what are we going to be talking about today, Lindaz?

SPEAKER_02 2:03

You know, we've we've spent the early podcast talking about some of the hidden challenges of retirement. You know, we the fact you spend a a lifetime learning how to do your work, and there's very little preparation in how to stop work. Yeah, we talked about the psychology, the emotion, and the identity dilemmas. That was a good one. We did, I thought, um, last week. Yes. With Sadie, I don't we we haven't published that yet, but that's good. Um, but I'd like to talk about the joys of not working. It feels about time to celebrate elder essence. Uh, I appreciate you're not there yet, and so you probably won't be saying anything on this walk.

SPEAKER_01 2:39

No, I like that. I like that. The joy of X working. Yes, exactly. That's what I think we can type there.

SPEAKER_02 2:44

And I know I know many are obvious, but uh but I've got a list, as you know. Um of course you have. But I think yeah, I'd like to phrase it. I think many of them are sort of the antidotes to some of the challenges we've mentioned. And I also want to say that you know, everyone is different. This is very personal, this journey that you know that some of us are on. Um, and so this won't resonate with everybody, but I think you know, I'd like to talk about some of the things I've experienced. I'd like to talk about some of the things you know other friends of mine have experienced, and I've made some up, which I think are probably true, but you know, maybe more bit more theoretical at the moment.

SPEAKER_01 3:20

Okay, okay. Oh, that sounds very good. Um, whoa, there's a big, big glustery blow there. Um, so my preparation for this was apart from agreeing what time you're gonna pick me up and drive me here, was I bought a new pair of walk-in boots.

SPEAKER_02 3:34

I noticed I I did want to comment, they're they're very they're very sparkly basically.

SPEAKER_01 3:38

They're not sparkly, they're they're they're nice. They're nice. They're they're Merrills, and um, you know, we are open to being sponsored if Merrill. Other brands are available. Other brands are available. Um I thought we were gonna we we seem to we we got off of them, we're gonna we're doing these. Um I think there's a number we've already planned for the future, so I needed a decent pair of uh lightweight walking boots uh for the summer months.

SPEAKER_02 3:58

No, I think I'm jealous because my my vans are falling apart, as you know, but they are monograms, so I'm a bit loathed to chuck them. Yeah, um, they're good, but also you know, I had an accident this morning, my rucksack broke, so thank you for carrying my water bottle.

SPEAKER_01 4:09

Yes, I am actually his uh bag carrier. Finally, after all these years, I literally and he's got the heaviest water bottle on the planet. Um it weighs more than the rest of my rucksack and the controversial.

SPEAKER_02 4:21

Oh, you're gonna moan about that all the way up. I am, I am, no, there we go. But maybe just to finish off the introduction, if I may, you know just well, just thinking about I mean yeah, these some of these are obvious, but I think there's you know, I think there is a huge psychological benefit of not working. I mean, you know, when I think when one's in work and you know, whether you enjoy your work or not, there's a pressure associated with working. Um there's travel often associated with working, and sort of that goes when you stop working. I think the the background pressure at work is real, you know, the deadlines, the continual requirement to continue to perform, to deliver, um, to maintain that these are background pressures that when they stop, they're actually perhaps a bit more noticeable, even for those of us that that enjoyed it. I think, and putting down that load, yeah, I was just thinking about you trooping up that hill we did a couple of weeks ago with that big old rucksack on your back, you know, there's an emotional freedom, I think, associated with not having that that burden anymore, even if you enjoyed your work. Would you go for that?

SPEAKER_01 5:27

I would agree. No, I'd agree with that. And I think I think the other thing, I'll I think there is a it's I think you're you're kind of it's uh you're kind of fit for purpose, or you're you know I don't know, it's about being. I the way I could compare it is you know, I you know, I we've travelled a lot during our life for work and pleasure, but you know, a lot for work as well. And and you know, when we came back after COVID and were out of practice, it was really hard. I mean, on the first transatlantic flight I did after that, I couldn't believe how difficult it was. And yet there was a period of time I was doing it almost once every every few weeks.

SPEAKER_02 6:02

Well, I think that's I think you're you're you're making my point as well. I think you habituate to that pressure, to that, that that whole way of working, which doesn't necessarily mean it's natural or comfortable or indeed good for you. I don't know. I'm not uh you know, enjoyed my working life, and but I am interested how that does feel to I feel lighter actually since I've stopped working. And so I feel that's that's a big thing. And I but I think the biggest joy is is the time to do you know what you want to do. I think time is the biggest gift, you know, to build the life you want. Um we talked last week about perhaps discovering who you are, um living more in the moment. Um, you know, time's a gift now, not a not a deadline. You we our lives are so given governed by time, but having the ability to do with it what you will, it actually is really a really a blessing. Um there is there is some guilt, and we talked about this in the car coming up, and I think that's an episode on its on itself. Yeah, so the guilt, there's a s some guilt in retirement. Um but I think this is about the joy of having that extra time, the freedom to make choices, and that really leads on to my list, so maybe we should get walking.

SPEAKER_01 7:16

Well, can we finish my co-can I finish my coffee first?

SPEAKER_02 7:19

Oh, if you must, yeah. Alright, we'll be back.

SPEAKER_01 7:25

Okay, Dad's well. I've still had a breath and we've been sitting down for five minutes.

SPEAKER_02 7:29

That's they've done well, Peter. One hell of a start. I was very surprised how often you had to tie your shoelaces, I have to say. Yeah, but is it the new shoes?

SPEAKER_01 7:37

Uh yeah, it is. They're breaking in genetic, but uh they've done well. I'm ashamed, you know. I'm always 69. You just brought me up a mountain, half a mountain. I know we're not there yet.

SPEAKER_02 7:47

Do you know what the definition of a mountain is?

SPEAKER_01 7:49

Uh no, over a thousand feet or something.

SPEAKER_02 7:51

Is that true? Yeah, about that, about 600. I think six um six hundred metres, I think. Anything over that's a mountain.

SPEAKER_01 7:56

Oh, okay.

SPEAKER_02 7:57

So this is well over.

SPEAKER_01 7:58

We've been dead be devalued then. I'm sure when I was younger, they were much taller than the mountain.

SPEAKER_02 8:02

It's imperial and metric, isn't it? Things that got smaller.

SPEAKER_01 8:04

Oh, okay.

SPEAKER_02 8:04

Like that mass bar we had at the start, that was tiny, wasn't it?

SPEAKER_01 8:07

That was, yeah. No, we're not getting that a joke.

SPEAKER_02 8:10

No, no, no, don't do the Marion Faithful joke, no. Yeah, so the the big one for me has has been investing in relationships. The fact you can spend time with your loved ones, your family, your friends. Just you you can make time, which in the past perhaps hasn't been available. Well, I know you're enjoying being a granddad. I am enjoying that, and and it's and it's meaningful connections like this, Peter. And and the fact that when you've got more time with people, you know, they're not just the sort of the relatively rushed interactions. You know, you can you can just really enjoy a company people's company in a way that you can't when you're rushed, is be my experience. You know, you can have some fun, you can be playful, you can do the dutiful stuff as well. But I um I really enjoyed that. I think that's a big one.

SPEAKER_01 8:54

I I know you longly look back at the time when you only had to have an hour's coffee with me once every two months, and now you know, and now I'm uh in and out of your life all the time. Well that is good.

SPEAKER_02 9:05

That is that is true. That is true. So that's a big one. I think another another thing that um I think about a lot is is travel, you know, and and perhaps more generally adventure. The fact that with time you know, I appreciate there's cost constraints here, but uh just there's there's I personally get energy through anticipating a trip or something you know new, a visit somewhere. Um I think there's a there's an element. There's the sort of the the travel used to be sort of work on holidays, but I think there's something about traveler's quest now, which is about you know collecting experience. The travel's been part of a of a larger uh project, if you like. You said visiting bits of the UK or you know, people like visiting historical sites or you know, doing historical monuments. I think traveller's quest is something that's that's relatively new to me, which and I'm exploring in a way that has given me great joy, and that's because time has facilitated that. Okay, yep. Oh well, I can see the top. Well, if that is that a real top it's interesting, isn't it? So we do like a metaphor, don't we? We do. I think that actually is a false summit, I think, or false horizon, whatever they're called. So I mean, that feels like something you get in retirement or indeed work. Yeah, you do, absolutely. Well, I think that's right. You can you can choose the end of your journey, but I think it's always upwards, onwards and upwards, Peter. I think we should just keep going. I hope it's downwards right. Well, it will be. So Nord, can we talk about Nordic poles? We've seen quite a few Nordic poles on this on this one. Oh, you should make everyone. I mean you thought they were waste of time, didn't you?

SPEAKER_01 10:37

But I think there's No, I I was saying what's the point? I didn't say they were waste of time, you do twist things somewhat. I said, what is the point of them? I don't really understand. And it's you know, you're gonna educate my ignorance.

SPEAKER_02 10:48

Well, I think I'm not an expert, but I think used properly, obviously there's the balance thing, but I I did I did read a paper about this actually, that that used properly, there's something like a five percent transference of power from your arms through the poles to help you walk, and therefore it it aids endurance. It's like five percent less work your legs have to do.

SPEAKER_01 11:10

I think it's it's fascinating, in fact, because halfway up the hill it was four percent, and that's five percent. You do make these things up. There is a percent increase of vantage.

SPEAKER_02 11:19

Okay, with that, shall we? Yeah, let's decide at all. And are these metaphors we've been spouting or they analogies? Um anyway, no. Okay, so we're nearly there at the top, but I think do you want to have another another uh category of things that I personally have enjoyed more since I've entered the state of adolescence? Yeah, go ahead. It's exercise meeting. Oh my god. A refresh focus on exercise, um, fitness. I mean, obviously, part of being retired is wanting to be around to enjoy it, and so I think it's been important to me actually, you know that because I you know it I think it it's a positive contributor to health, to mood, um, energy. And there are other elements that I've spotted since sort of exercising after work is it involves people, it involves a certain amount amount of commitment, yeah. It involves uh perhaps a uh a consistency. So all of these things that you get for nothing with work, you know, you you get a timetable, you get people to talk to, you get to go out, and actually it's driven a bit of a routine for me which has uh enhanced the enjoyment of you know getting fit and keeping fit. And I can, you know, given how you laboured up the hill, Peter, I can recommend a pillar now.

SPEAKER_01 12:38

Thank you, Dad. Other alternative lifestyles are available. There is a live fast die young option, of course. We should talk about that on one point. But no, you're right, no, I I I reckon I recognise that you know you are definitely fitter than or you're younger and fitter than me, to be fair. Well, but you have more hair. I have a lot more hair.

SPEAKER_02 12:57

So, push to the summit. There we go. Have a have a missing. That was windy, wasn't it? That was very impressive. There's something primordial about heavy winds on top of a mountain makes you realise how insignificant we all are. Yes, absolutely.

SPEAKER_01 13:14

Before we move on, though, I you know I did promise you an intermission. Oh, yeah, yeah. I think now's a good time because it's just me delaying getting up and walking out. Um now you probably won't actually allow me to put these in the uh the podcast episodes, but uh um what I want to talk about is things you can say in the bedroom and on a hike. Will it take much longer? Um coming up behind you. It looked a lot bigger in the photos.

SPEAKER_02 13:41

Um I've only done it twice, and the second time my hat blew off.

SPEAKER_01 13:46

Wow, I'm out of breath already, we've only just started.

SPEAKER_02 13:50

Um can I give you a hand?

SPEAKER_01 13:57

You were holding my bag earlier, so be careful it's slippery. Uh where is it? I can't see what you're pointing at. Is it good? Yeah, uh I've got to feel this tomorrow.

SPEAKER_02 14:10

Excellent. Well, I think we're refreshed enough, Peter. I think we should make it to the top now. Okay, fine.

SPEAKER_01 14:18

We are at the top, so um Dad, thank you for uh encouraging me on the way and carrying my bag for a short period of time. I appreciate that. Um that was somewhat windy. Um I think I was about I think I was one gust away from basically paragliding.

SPEAKER_02 14:33

It was impressive, wasn't it? It was very, I mean, the um did you notice the the guide down the bottom said it's very windy up there today, and it certainly was. But what a view, Peter.

SPEAKER_01 14:41

Oh my god, it's magnificent, it really is. And uh I feel good having um reached the actual summit um and the metaphorical summit as well of this journey. Um yeah, the view, I don't know, it's hard to describe, isn't it?

SPEAKER_02 14:54

It's just vast. Well, we can see a long ways, a bit of heat haze today, but um sort of feels like South Wales is spread out before us. But anyway, do you want to get back to my list? It feels like you know I don't want to get back to the list. No, okay. We were talking about exercise, weren't we?

SPEAKER_01 15:11

Oh, we got back to this anyway, are we? Okay, quite fair enough. Yeah. I know you you have a purpose and a mission on these calls these podcasts, so yes, let's go for it.

SPEAKER_02 15:18

Although I did laugh that when we actually at the top of Penny Van, for those of you that are walked, you'll know there's a there's a tree point and a and a sign with the summit with the 886 metres marked on it. And it did I did have a perverse feeling of achievement reaching it. And I think that has something to do with milestones and uh KPIs. Well, there was that too, but no, it's not a lot of people. No van left behind. Very good. It's more like registered achievement.

SPEAKER_01 15:45

I was noticing that, and that's sort of something you don't get when you get there is there's a little euphoric burst, isn't there, when you when you get there, I think, yeah. Um, and it is it is that sense of achievement for sure, and you know, maybe that is the metaphor for retirement is this what now, what is the purpose, what am I trying to achieve at this period of my life? So back to your list.

SPEAKER_02 16:05

So I've been talking about things that either I personally think are positive about this adorescence phase, or friends of mine have talked about it, or I think it's a theoretical construct which I've yet to experience myself. But actually, one that we've talked about this before learning and growth. The the fact that you know we we do spend our working life, you know, learning skills and developing capabilities that we apply to our to our trade, and that through that, you know, we we manage to perhaps get more proficient, um, we get experience, we get skills. But of course, that doesn't stop when you stop working, but perhaps the focus of your learning and growth changes. So you can actually spend some time developing yourself on things that you want to do, you know, that excite your interest in your passions. Um, and there's a whole range of ways you can do that when you're not working. So I think that's a that's a big one that I think is important, and it perhaps there's something to do with unlocking creativity here as well. The fact that with that free time, with the a learning and growth focus. Um, you know, I think all that all that mental activity we had during our working lives needs channeling when it's no longer been driven by the requirements of your work, and so I think that's part of discovering new purpose as well, looking at developing yourself in ways that perhaps you haven't thought about yet. And I think that for me includes you know creativity, like what we're doing now, you know, doing doing podcasts.

SPEAKER_01 17:34

Yeah, I mean it's just new. So that's a strong argument for preparing for this retirement thing. That's right. You know, having some idea. Um, I think I was you know, earlier on, I think off off mic I was talking about you know, you you know the concept of you know you enter retirement and perhaps go off and spend a fortune on fishing gear, etc., because you always said, Oh, I've got to go fishing, and then discovering it's not great, or it doesn't fill your time, or it doesn't fulfil you, it's it's not having a real plan.

SPEAKER_02 18:03

Yeah, yeah. Um I think that's right. I think you know, for people listening to this who are not retired, I think that's a great tip to think through what that perhaps that learning and growth, or maybe that creative um drive might be when you stop working. Actually, I think creativity is important enough for its own topic. Um, I think there's something about use of your hands and mind to create something is profoundly satisfying. And you know that that sort of feeling when you're engaged with something like that, making music or absorbed in a hobby. Um, time just flies, doesn't it? You it it actually time has no meaning because you there's something that's very therapeutic and relaxing, I think, about about creativity as a as an as an element in one's life. I think it brings you energy, useful energy. Perhaps it's playful, there's something about perhaps becoming childlike again. So I think that's an important category for those of creative.

SPEAKER_01 18:59

We were jesting a little bit around the uh you know the social media creativity, and there's there's a lot of copy and then not so much fun stuff out there, but there's also some very, very ingenious things that people are creating. But you know, I think it's you know, I would I would suggest that doom scrolling is not a retirement copy.

SPEAKER_02 19:15

No, it's uh I think that's a trap. Uh we perhaps we should come back to that. And another category for me, I think, is about social, you know, having having a community relationship, um, driving new connections. You know, it can be a very simple thing. This uh you know it doesn't have to be overt, but obviously you you get your social connections your work for free, don't you? That comes with being around people, and I think there's a there's a trap here for people who are retired that actually might lose connections with people. So I think that's worth effort, and you know that it might be more focused, it might come through sort of service or mission or activism, you know, which perhaps allows a sort of more deeper connection with the world through people, um, perhaps you know, contribution to purpose. Uh but I think for some retirement can feel a bit like a vacuum because that social interaction is missing. And so people talk about being worried about being bored when they retire. But you know, the positive, the flip side of boredom, I think, is the the time you're given to explore all sorts of things like like the things we've been talking about. Yep.

SPEAKER_01 20:22

Agree with that. I don't think it's um it's kind of like giving, you know, you you've got to give yourself permission, I guess, to go and explore all these different things.

SPEAKER_02 20:30

Permission and you know, you've got to have the curiosity, perhaps. So I think it's important to stay curious because and be open to to uh allow yourself to be uh led somewhere perhaps you wish you hadn't preordained. And perhaps one last one before we head off down the hill. Um, you know, think about projects. I mean, it is interesting that we all have our to-do lists, and I think one of the blessings of retirement is the fact that to-do list, perhaps the urgency of the to-do list counts a little less because the time is not such a driver.

SPEAKER_01 20:58

I mean, don't tell people I said that, but I I was good about yeah, I was going to counter that. Well, you know, isn't the argument against that saying, well, you've got plenty of time to do the to-do list, so why are you putting it off now?

SPEAKER_02 21:08

You know, so I can see there's some Yeah, but think, yeah, but you know, think of all those projects that you've been putting off. You know, for me, as you know, I had a big project of sorting out um thousands, literally thousands and thousands of slides. My dad was a keen photographer, and just working through that felt like uh you know an homage to him and a bit of act of service. But you know, that was a that was a great project for me. I had to learn a bit of technology, how to digitize all of that. So I think you know that that project work, and maybe there's something here about declustering, you know, giving stuff, you know, getting rid of stuff, um, minimizing your life a little bit more based on the things that actually give you pleasure, like the Mary Condi thing, you know, keep around you the things that give you pleasure and stop collecting things, throw away things you've not used or you've not worn, or actually have got bad memories for you. So I think there's something about sort of project work in retirement which is quite exciting.

SPEAKER_01 21:56

I'm a bit worried about that one because I spent my life doing projects and I'm very tired. And I don't collect things. So the suggestion there is that I live in a projectless retirement with a mess. Well, maybe.

SPEAKER_02 22:08

And as I said at the front, you know, these are this is just a sort of fairly generic list of things that I think are facilitated by having extra time. Will not apply to everybody for sure. We've already talked about your lack of exercise and uh and now your lack of projects, so there's two on my list. I do that's not fair.

SPEAKER_01 22:22

I do exercise, I walk every day, but dearly not up mountains every day. No, that was a big one. I mean it was an it was an hour and a half up, wasn't it? Which is Yeah, constant climbing. I mean even the flat bit wasn't really that flat. Yeah, it wasn't. Well, it was and we were up against the wind on that part. You didn't mean moan m much. I didn't moan much. No, you couldn't hit the well, I think the moaning was swept away by the winds. But no, I mean you know, if you have the opportunity to do this walk, it is well worth it when you get to the top. And uh I I I kind of feel the descent's gonna be not so easy either. I mean it's it's um you know it's a steady drop, isn't it? And you've got to it's not American, we're not running downhill.

SPEAKER_02 22:58

No, no, but we're going downhill, both physically and metaphorically. So why don't we start on that now? Excellent. All right.

SPEAKER_01 23:59

Oh, we're down the bottom, Dads. We're down the bottom. We have succeeded. In the car park, we made it. We have all this seat, you're so comfortable.

SPEAKER_02 24:06

Well, you did well, Peter. How are the shoes? How did they work out?

SPEAKER_01 24:09

They worked out very well actually. Um, you know, coming coming down the hill is a very different pressure, and uh yeah, your legs work in a very different way, don't they?

SPEAKER_02 24:19

Different muscles, aren't they?

SPEAKER_01 24:20

Yeah, absolutely. But no, it's very good, thank you very much. Um, and I'm looking forward to you're gonna we're gonna go off to Abigail and find somewhere nice to eat.

SPEAKER_02 24:28

Yeah, so uh where'd you fancy walking next, Peter? You you're done with hills now, are you?

SPEAKER_01 24:33

Well, I've already chosen next one, uh Dad, and and um uh it's uh we're gonna go for a walk. I'm suggesting, well I'm hoping you'll agree. We're gonna go for a sort of a canal type walk around Oxford, lovely, which is quite flat, I believe.

SPEAKER_02 24:47

Well, I think by definition, canals are quite flat.

SPEAKER_01 24:50

Well, they tend to be. They do tend to be.

SPEAKER_02 24:52

Do you know what we're talking about yet, or are we gonna we're gonna be able to do that?

SPEAKER_01 24:54

I don't know what we're talking about. That it was more of the flatness was the important thing. Maybe the theme is how flat do you feel after you've retired.

SPEAKER_02 25:02

Well, I think I think we've given a good airing to the the benefits, the joy of retirement. Do you like my list?

SPEAKER_01 25:07

Yeah, good list. Haven't quite finished. I didn't think you had. And so um let's let's finish it off for the for the listeners here.

SPEAKER_02 25:14

Well, I you know, we did a lot of talking off off um off mic as well, and I am conscious that you know this list may sound a bit glib, but it it is a tr it is sort of a it is a a positive a list of positive possibilities, let me put it like that, associated with retirement. And I do uh understand that not everybody looks at retirement in this way or is even able to look in this way. I mean people have ill health, don't they? And they do, yes. They have financial issues, financial issues, or they have uh responsibilities, perhaps with with childcare or or or parents, that means they can't get to this. But I think you know, to be rounded in in this podcast, I wanted to make sure that we covered all the really nice things that are associated with it. And I, you know, we went through a few today, and perhaps perhaps two more to finish. You'll go. Well, one of them is about it is about, you know, we talked a bit about making memories and the fact that memories actually you know potentially last longer than your money. And so and I'm wondering whether there's a category there about creating a legacy. Um the fact that you know, spending time with your loved ones, making new memories, learning new skills, having new hobbies, being creative. And I'm wondering whether that this period, I I like to feel that this period can be a very, very positive transformation for people, and perhaps there's a legacy associated with that, which is joyful.

SPEAKER_01 26:38

That's a very interesting one because you know, kind of you've got a question. I mean, how many people, when they finish work, feel they have left any form of legacy at work? I'd imagine maybe there are some that think they have, but I mean, you know, work moves on so quickly.

SPEAKER_02 26:53

Moves on very quickly.

SPEAKER_01 26:54

So, you know, bucket of water, okay.

SPEAKER_02 26:58

Glad we haven't had an episode where we don't talk about the bucket of water.

SPEAKER_01 27:02

Well, you have your uh you know, your metaphors I have my bucket of water, which in itself is a metaphor. So or an analogy, or an analogy, or both, possibly. We'll look that up and uh I'll add that to the end of the podcast.

SPEAKER_02 27:14

Take your rest and enjoy your leisure. Yeah, you know, I I know we're talking about you know some psychological issues and possibilities, but at the end of a long working life, I don't think there's anything wrong in slowing down, living your life, deprioritizing your do your to-do list. And maybe maybe doing nothing is regenerative. You know, maybe there's something about if if you're able to do that, you know, become lighter, calmer, clearer. There's something about that associated with the end of your working life and and your elder essence journey.

SPEAKER_01 27:51

Yeah, perhaps we should finish on that point. I think that's a very good uh good finish. But but I would go, I'd like to just go back to, you know, again, off my we talked about you know how how deep we were going on these things. And I think it's very I've I think it's very important that we have people on the podcasts who can take us to a slightly deeper level. We've seen that already uh with the ones we've had, and hopefully the ones will be coming up. But you know, I would I would say to anybody who listens to this, if you've got a story to tell about an aspect of this, we'd love to hear from you because nothing's more powerful than individual stories and how they've dealt or not dealt with. Yeah, the challenge. So yeah, and I'm that bombshell. See you again next Sunday.

unknown 28:30

Bye.

SPEAKER_00 28:32

You have been listening to Walking Into Retirement, an unusual podcast about finding purpose, meaning, and balance after a busy working life with David Ailing Smith and Peter Taylor. Find out more at www.walkinginteretirement.com. And why not share your own retirement stories with the hosts?