Walking into Retirement
‘Walking into Retirement’ explores the emotional, psychological, and practical realities of modern retirement through a series of reflective conversations undertaken while walking scenic routes across the UK.
Retirement today is no longer a clear-cut ending to working life, and for many professionals, it is an uncertain transition marked by loss of identity, fear of stopping, questions of purpose, and the challenge of balancing enjoyment of life with planning for a (hopeful) long future.
‘Walking into Retirement’ will address this transition, head on, in a fresh and engaging way.
The authors will undertake a series of walks across the UK, coastal paths, countryside trails, and other familiar UK landscapes, and using walking as both a literal framework and a metaphor for change they will talk: honestly, humorously, and thoughtfully about what retirement now means, why it differs so much from previous generations, and how people can move into it deliberately rather than abruptly.
They will share their similar and yet very different approaches and plans for this new period in their lives and speak openly about their hopes and their fears.
The walks themselves will also be outlined to paint a picture for the readers.
Walking into Retirement
#8 Opportunity - A personal experience - Oxford Canal and the Thames
Use Left/Right to seek, Home/End to jump to start or end. Hold shift to jump forward or backward.
This episode, with a very flat walk along the Oxford canal and river Thames, chosen by Peter, is very much about Peter and his personal experience of the whole elderescence world.
Echoing many of the lessons from earlier podcast guests but with it now a personal reality in a time-rich but focus-poor state and with no real plans beyond the 'R' point (and Peter decides it must be called) DAS offers up some thoughts and encouragement.
The heart of which is that 'experience becomes more valuable than energy at some point' and, actually, this is a relatively open canvas for a new future.
And DAS learns what is a train and what is a canal boat.
Walking into retirement is an unusual podcast about finding purpose, meaning, and balance after a busy working life with David Ailing Smith and Peter Taylor. Exploring the emotional, psychological, and practical realities of modern retirement through a series of reflective conversations undertaken while we're talking scenic groups across the UK.
SPEAKER_02Hello Dallas. Hello, Peter. Well, this is pleasant, isn't it? It is, it is. Um, we are in Oxford. And it's flat. It's very, very flat, and I'm very, very pleased about that. So this is your choice.
SPEAKER_01So that was the main criteria, was it today? A flat walk. Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_02Very, very different from our last walk up a mountain. So we appreciate that. And we're gonna have to pause now because someone's coming along. So we're we're we've started at Isis Loch. We're now at French Road Bridge, and I'm fascinated. So it's right next to the clock there's a canal on the right hand side. There's some fantastic looking murals over there. There's a kingfisher, I can see. I'm gonna take a picture of that in a minute. Um, and there's a clock. There's a clock on the bridge.
SPEAKER_01Oh, uh that's interesting, isn't it? I Oxford is um is a fascinating city, isn't it?
SPEAKER_02Here we go, here we go. You've got some facts, I think. You've got some fun facts.
SPEAKER_01The oldest English-speaking university, of course. Well, you knew that, didn't you? But I think French A is where Bannister broke the four-minute mile back in the day. I may have that wrong, but he certainly broke it in Oxford, and I think it was it was here.
SPEAKER_02But I don't think I don't think that was the clock they used over there, to be honest. No, it's an interesting maybe it's a maybe it's a nod to that in some way, or or actually uh it is to help the um the barsman um know what time it is. I don't know.
SPEAKER_01Very good. Lovely city though, isn't it? I mean, a load of famous writers lived here, Tolkien, C. S. Lewis, Philip Paulman, um, and of course the home of the Oxford Dictionary.
SPEAKER_02It feels to me that wherever we go, Tolkien and C. Lewis seem to come into the equation.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. I think they were locals really. But uh so what are we talking about today? It feels like it's part walk, part interview today, Peter. Is that right? Part walk, park interview.
SPEAKER_02I'm not sure. Well, no, I I wanted to base, I mean, it's based on me, but it's a wider topic, clearly. It's all about elder essence and that retirement thing. Um and I I felt we had to we have to be a little bit personal here because it's it's about us as well. Although we've got some we've had some great, and I know we're gonna have some more great people to interview and share their experience, but I thought I'd I'd I'd like to you know not just make it about me but talk a little bit about my experience, which I'm going through at the moment. So today is a um is possibly a momentous day for me. Okay, because yesterday I finished work, so I'm 68, I'm 69 in September. I'm obviously very young looking. Thank you for that. I was gonna go straight in just in case you didn't say that, but I am, yeah, good. Um certainly young in mind as well, perhaps too young sometimes, as people say. And you've just stopped work. I've well I I don't know. I don't know if I've just stopped work. Well, you stopped work yesterday. Yesterday, I was you know, I'd be I have been made redundant, so I'm very much like um our friend Sally who came on on our first interview. I think it's different in some ways because it's it doesn't feel as forced, it's been such a long time coming, and that yeah, I knew about it.
SPEAKER_01It's unplanned, but you've had a lot of notice.
SPEAKER_02I reflected this morning when I woke up that it's possible that yesterday was the last day I would ever be employed by someone. Not that necessarily work, because as we know, and I'll talk about it, you know, I do other things as well, but to be actually employed by a company to do a job, it is possible that yesterday was it, which is quite sobering. It well, yeah. How did you how do you feel about that? I don't I I didn't feel anything yesterday to be honest, because it was just it was all done and dusted, you know, all the equipment were already gone back, and uh, we'd wrapped up, we'd done all the legal documents and everything, and I, you know, I live hope in hope that they will pay me some money at the end of the month to to make it feel make me feel better. But it was this morning really. Um and I think because I was going through my mind what we're gonna talk about, because uh in my usual style, I hadn't prepared anything until this morning, of course, um, and then suddenly remembered it was my job to do something. Um I I think what it is is it's I don't I don't see it as the kind of grief that Sally was talking about because I was mentally prepared for it perhaps in a in a better way. Yes, because I foresaw this coming over a year ago, yes. I think the other thing is it it's finding now for me the options of what to do. I mean, and that and to many things because it's you know um you know I have the the alter ego, the lazy project manager, and the work I do there. I have you know, as an author and as a speaker, um there's also um you know there is a possibility to retire. Um it would be a very different quality of living financially if I were to retire. Um so and but I have gone from that kind of you know, that full-on career. Um, and thank you for not making a joke about you know my approach to full-on careers, but you know.
SPEAKER_01Well, I I I you know I think the tone of today is slightly different, and this is uh it does feel like a big day, and and maybe I could maybe I can ask you some open questions to help help you. You can do, you can do.
SPEAKER_02I know because it's you know to me, it's like it's filling the gap, I think, is is my big thing at the moment. So go, yeah, go on, ask me some questions.
SPEAKER_01I've got a lot of so in terms of when you woke up this morning, I thought that could be the last day of my paid-for working life. Was there anything that came to mind that you look forward to? Is there anything that came to your mind in terms of that allows for me to do more of this in the future? I appreciate it's very fresh and new, but that's not true.
SPEAKER_02I don't think there is, no, there isn't. I don't think that's I think there's just too many questions at the moment, too much, too much of it is open-ended. I think um I'm gonna talk a bit more about this, you know, the loss of structure in a country when we next break for a for a conversation, but it it's more about oh, what next? What is gonna happen next, and what you know, what are the choices? And you can't just sit still. Um, as we were talking earlier on, you know, we're you know why.
SPEAKER_01You you can't sit sit still. I think that's a truism, but we have mentioned before that everyone's different, and actually, for a lot of people, sitting still as a way of recovering from a very busy life feels like a very lovely thing to do, but I know that's not an option for you because that's not who you are.
SPEAKER_02Well, I but you okay, thank you for taking it down that route. What I meant by not sitting still is that decisions have to be made. By not sitting still, what I mean is the fact that you know I can't I could just sit here and go, I'll take the money, I'll think about retiring, and I'll start burning through that money that I'm gonna get, but actually we have to make some other decisions. And and you know, we were talking earlier uh before we started recording that you know we're looking Martha and I are looking to to move to downsize to you know to clear any residual debt, etc., as a part of a kind of a contingency or or protection against the the future state, but it it it's requiring, I mean, it's just you know, look you know, losing your well, losing your job and and moving, I mean two of the most stressful things you can do. Um yeah, I'm not getting divorced, which is this is novel. That's the other one. What's the other stressful thing? It brings some levity into it.
SPEAKER_01But it it also allows for a reinvention. I mean, that's what you're talking about, a reinvention of your life. The next stage of your life, you now have the opportunity to go and do anything that you want to go and do, and and if that involves money, then that would push you down a path to go and earn money again. And if it doesn't involve money, it takes you down a path of having time to do it. So that there are I think this takes it's only there was a podcast talking about this, it'd be so useful, wouldn't it? What would you call that podcast, Daz? Um I think it'd be sitting sitting down into retirement, something like that.
SPEAKER_02Benching it with Daz, which we're sitting on a nice wooden batch. It sounds like dreadful euphony, doesn't it? It does actually look at these are people's houses at the moment, actually. They overlook the canal, but therefore they expect um lack of privacy.
SPEAKER_01It is, I mean, uh we'll come back to your reinventing your life, Peter, but we've just walked through old Jericho, which if anyone knows, it's a beautiful old bit of Oxford, where uh very sleepy canal with lovely houses leading down to the garden. Um, and it it it has a it has a sort of a shabby grandeur to it, I think, which is very attractive. But there we go. We're talking about housing still, not me, yeah?
SPEAKER_02Shabby grandeur. I'd I'm gonna throw in a fact because I you know I go on them. Well, I I continue my journey of investigating the profile of of English people, or British people rather, I should say, sorry, British people. Um, and uh there are 3.6 million people over 20, over 65 who have basically retired earlier than they anticipated due to circumstances, shall we say? Uh that strange noise going past was a jogger, just in case anybody's wondering. Um, so yeah, it's due to circumstances, and that circumstances are redundancy, uh, illness or having to move into a caring type role. Um, a 21% of that group is as a result of redundancy. So, again, it's a very big, big community who and they're not look, they're not following our podcast as yet.
SPEAKER_01Well, there's a lot going on in the IT world at the moment, isn't it? I was reading this week about the number of layoffs in Silicon Valley and it's the growth of AI is causing organisations to basically make some pretty big calls, actually, I would say, before AI has proven itself in that sort of thing. Yeah, they are.
SPEAKER_02I talk about you know, this sumptive wave at the moment, big, you know, it's there's pressure from um CEOs around the world to make the savings that they see their competitors making, but it's as yet proved um it's yet proven, it's it's it's opportunistic cutting, I think, of the workforce. But and I attended um uh an event in the week, which was it was all about you know getting project managers back to work who've been out of work for some time, and it was quite I mean it was you know, the guy who ran it, very uplifting, high energy, specializes in that kind of recruitment world and has done for years, but it was also very, very sad and a little bit depressing. Uh, the number of people who attended that call have been you know out of work for you know three months or more uh because of where the market is.
SPEAKER_01It's a tough environment, I think, for many people. But let I you know, I want to be positive for you today because I think you know the the the world is your lobster, Peter, I think, and we should Why would you do a seafood analogy for someone who doesn't like seafood? Yeah, yeah, fair point.
SPEAKER_02But I think Can we can we like I I can do a Langerstein, that's as far as I go.
SPEAKER_01The world is my Langerstein. And I think we should, you know, we should try and um we should try and think of some ways in which you can um approach this change in your circumstance in a in a positive way because I think it is positive and I appreciate there's lots of negative things. I haven't asked you the question about um what are you worried about because I'm sure you'll come on to that. But I think there's a lot to be thankful for, Peter, today for both of us. Okay. I'd like to dwell on that later.
SPEAKER_02We will. Okay, let's continue the walk. Right, okay, well, a little break again.
SPEAKER_01Um Rally Bridge. It's fascinating, isn't it? These little communities by the canal. You know, if you read the Pullman books, like the Amber Spy Glass. I watched the TV. It's a different world, and you know, we've seen people living on their boats down here, ha you know hanging out there washing next to the towpath with the kitties stuffing. Solar panels, solar panels, wood piles, everything. It's a different world, and you know, we were talking earlier, Peter, about you know, you have all this opportunity in front of you. You know, would would you ever think about living on a canal boat, for example? I mean, it's something you could do now with Juliet, go off and travel the country.
SPEAKER_02Well, all right, the plus is that um yeah, Juliet could get a dog. The negatives are I think I would go insane living on a cowboat canal boat, I believe. At this that level of lack of room, I think. And I and I know they as you said they stretch out, but it no, I don't I can't see that. Camper van or is that is that the same? Camper van, interestingly, is something that uh we have we haven't sort of jokingly talked about just you know selling up, investing the money, buying a camper van, um and and going to see Great Britain and you could do that now. We could do that. We could I you know I'm I don't know you know what I thought about m me right now is I'm I'm time rich, I'm focused poor, I think at the moment. Focus poor. Focus poor.
SPEAKER_01Well I think I think given you know you the number of times you've kicked off new projects and you've got your new stakeholders around you, and you basically you you interrogate them, don't they, about what their expectations are of the project. You could do that now. Yeah, I could be a stakeholder and I could uh I could give you ideas and all your other friends, well your other friend, could give you ideas on things you could do.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, I've been too busy in my career not to make friends, so yeah, that's okay.
SPEAKER_01I don't think that's the only problem, Pete.
SPEAKER_02No, okay, fair enough then. But I I it is about you know, it is it is the theme is a loss of structure, yeah. And you know, for a for a Virgo project manager, that's that's very, very challenging, you know. Uh well can I make a radical suggestion? You could make one.
SPEAKER_01Well, you know, your your life has been defined by that structure, and you know, your expertise came out of the project management world, and you've moved on and and and you know you've built PMOs, you've built teams, it's been around that uh a planning approach, and you're sitting here now without a plan, and that must be very unsettling. But maybe that's what is the next stage of your life. You can open yourself up to possibilities, things you would never plan for, but they might happen. You just need to hold open that that field of possibilities and find a way to be happy doing that. I appreciate this is very, very hard, but then anything could happen, like you could get in a camper van with Juliet and travel around the world for a couple of years or yeah, you know, there's lots of possibilities that you could create.
SPEAKER_02Lots and lots of possibilities, absolutely. I think it's um you know, I came up with it, you know, I know you you came up with advertence, etc. I felt I needed something. So I you know I defined something which I refer to as the R point. The R point, with the R stands obviously for retirement, etc. You know, I'm realising I had no plan for the other side of the R point because I never thought that I would retire in that in that sense. I just felt you were gonna and you know the the the other work I do I saw, you know, the writing speaking, something that would just continue on, and it could continue on.
SPEAKER_01You you that's why we don't like the word retirement. You are in elder essence, and it's down to you to choose what you do with that time. I think that's that's a much healthier way to look at it.
SPEAKER_02I feel I'm more in bewilder essence at this point in time, but in you know, that's a subset of of elder essence.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. It's just so interesting, isn't it, that this yeah we're now talking about you know you going through this in a way that we've talked about with other people, but it feels like this is really striking home now. Now it's actually happening.
SPEAKER_02It's real, it's real, absolutely. But it's it's I don't know. You know, if you go back to the camper van idea, which is something you know Julia and I did talk about, um uh as I said, not in a not in a serious way, but a kind of as an opportunistic way, perhaps, is you know, it's really what happens after that. That's you know, it's like now's the time perhaps to be really planning. And I said, you know, I had no plan for the R point or beyond the R point. Um, but you know, maybe I'm maybe I'm maybe I'm being driven to being a little bit more sensible and grown up about it, and I should have a plan. And yes, we could do that, and maybe we could do that for let's say for three years, trolley around Great Britain, um, coming back to see family every now and then. Um oh this is we're getting full authenticity here. Look, if you if we quiet for a minute, let's train go. It's not a train. Oh no, it's a canal boat, Daz. Sorry. That's a big difference. Well, it went under a bridge, it sounded very loud. Look at it. Can you hear that? That's beautiful.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. Yeah, no, you sure you can do that, and that looks very relaxing.
SPEAKER_02It is, I've done, I've been on canal boat. We talked about it while we were walking. We've both been we've both been on canal boats in the past, and it is very, very relaxing, and it's a very different pace of life.
SPEAKER_01Everything is just remember when we we went to a conference at Lord's Cricket Ground once and uh the various lectures the various people presenting were had their back to the ground, that wonderful old ground in that modern media centre, and we were all absolutely transfixed by the man cutting the grass. Do you remember that?
SPEAKER_02I do. I'm well I was one of the people that was speaking, so I could I I recognise the look on the audience's faces, but it was it was you know, they were they were just so slow and steady, and it was just yeah, they were cutting a millimeter off the grass, I think. But they were rolling it. Now that's a train. Okay. There's a big can you tell the difference now? Yes, yes, very good.
SPEAKER_03Yes.
SPEAKER_02Um, but it wasn't boring, was it? It was funny, it was like it was terrific. It was television or whatever they call it. Absolutely, as a screensaver, it'll be it'll be immense, I think.
SPEAKER_01Um going back to your you know what happens afterwards, I mean that that's the way your brain's worked all your working life to to plan what happens next, what do we do next? It's your project management expertise, do you have contingency plans, you know, you you have risk registers. But maybe this next part of your life doesn't have to be like that. And you know, it could be liberating not to plan the next stage of your life and let it happen in a way that is unexpected and it could be joyful. And I appreciate things can go wrong, but things can always go wrong, and and and so i it it's perhaps a way of looking at your life in the future in a different way. Very hard though, I I do understand. Yes, and scary.
SPEAKER_02Yes, yeah. I mean you you worry about security, you worry about you know, uh I'm I'm sprightly, as I say, in this sort of sprightly. Spritely, sprightly. Well, somewhere on uh someone I can't remember, I was somewhere, I think I was having coffee and and a couple of there was a couple of girls in there and they were talking about someone who died recently, I can't remember what it was now, and I think they were something like about 66, and and they used the phrase you know it was a good life. Yes, it's a good age, or something like that. It's not a good age, it's really not a good age, you know. 85 is a 90 is a great age. Look at David Attenbrook, 100.
SPEAKER_01But sprightly is a word I think applies to older gentlemen who are good for their age, whereas um I don't put you in that category at all. No, okay, all right. You're very young at heart.
SPEAKER_02Not sprightly, yeah, not not sprightly. Okay, we'll go we'll go with that. I yeah, it's it feels like it's a turning point, it feels like it's um yeah, it should it should be about opportunities, right? It should always be about opportunities, I agree. But there are also a lot of lot of anchors in your life as well, aren't there? There are. There are. There's there's there's family. You know, do you I got family in a couple of major you know locations in the UK? Um, you know, apparently she can't give up a hairdresser who lives in Bracknall. So that's you know, that's a big anchor, apparently. We the hairdressing has to have the factory anywhere we go.
SPEAKER_01It's an interesting metaphor, isn't it? Because an anchor, you know, an anchor gives you support in choppy seas, it also holds you back, isn't it?
SPEAKER_02It does, yes.
SPEAKER_01If the wind's blowing you in a different direction, anchors can hold you back. Oh, we can tick that box now, you've come up with one. Metaphor of the day. Bucket of water we've had that one as well, haven't we? Yes, um off cat off um off off sound. But um and and well, some of the things we've said to other people in this situation is to is to canvas um opinions from people who you trust or you love who you have respect for, and just talk it through. Well, I'm talking to you. Okay, and your other friend's not available. No, but you hope I don't trust them. You don't speak to me anymore. Yeah. It's very interesting listening to your tone on this podcast because it's quite different from the other podcasts, because it's it's real now, isn't it?
SPEAKER_02It is real, yeah, and it's um it's a reality. And and a lot of it is it's the timing, I know, you know. Yesterday was a big day, end of something, so in many ways it's a very great, it's a good time to have this podcast. In other ways, you know, I'm probably more subdued and not pessimistic. I don't I I am the best description of me is I am a a sort of realistic optimist, or fatalistic optimist, probably is more likely, actually, fatalistic optimist. That in my life something's always turned up. Sounds a bit um a bit uh who was that? Is that McCorb? Mr. McCorbow? Someone who turns up, I can't remember. Um uh it's only a Dick Entian character. I'll read our listener can tell us what it will be.
SPEAKER_01I bet he was sprightly.
SPEAKER_02He was definitely sprightly. Um yeah, so fatalistic in the sense that that something will happen, something will turn up, but it will be a good thing because that's the opportunistic aspect of my character. Um and I guess I'm just waiting for that now, and and and shouldn't really I shouldn't it really expect it to happen the day after. Um I think that's true.
SPEAKER_01We know we your impatience is legendary. But if you if you consider the things that you have, you you know, you have your health, you have your energy, yeah, you you know you have your intelligence, you've got your wisdom, you've got a loving family, you've got at least one friend, and you've got time. And you know, with your creativity, uh put that in a pot and mix it, I think all sorts of exciting things will come from it. But I think what you're reflecting on is that destabilizing moment that so many of the people on our uh podcast have talked about.
SPEAKER_02Which I mean, you know, I've been challenged to that. I don't have a lot of empathy for other people. But yes, it is empathy for that that kind of situation. Um and you know, I haven't been allowed to have the plan and control that I would expect to continue. And that's you know that is as you say, it's destabilised.
SPEAKER_01It is destabilised, but it allows for things that weren't allowed for when you had a when you had a robust plan. So I think it's very positive, Peter.
SPEAKER_02Okay, cool. Onwards?
SPEAKER_01Onwards.
SPEAKER_02Not upwards, but it's flat. Oh, here we are. We're on the River Thames now, aren't we?
SPEAKER_01We are, we are. I love that canal walk. I thought it was so interesting, and uh it just felt like a different world. Um I think Oxford is a bit of a different world, really, isn't it? Second have I said that already? It's the oldest English speaking university. You said that already, yeah.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, you said that one, yeah. Yeah, yeah. You run out of fact.
SPEAKER_01Do you do you remember no, I I have one more. Do you remember do you remember different parts of the country used to have their own time?
SPEAKER_02So before the I don't remember that, Dad. I remember the fact that that was the case, but I don't remember it being the case.
SPEAKER_01So before the railways came, in fact, what caused the countries to synchronise was the railways.
SPEAKER_02Oh, we go down Bradshaw Route. We go down Bradshaw?
SPEAKER_01Yeah, so but in Oxford, one of the colleges, I'm not sure which one, Christchurch, let's say, they ring a bell at nine o'clock in the evening at five past nine, because that's what the Oxford time was, and it's sort of a little last ditch of independence from Greenwich Mean Time.
SPEAKER_02Let's we have stuff these quaint customers, and this is another podcast perhaps. Because I was reminded this week it was the opening parliament, yeah, and and an MP has to be held captive by the crown due for the opening whilst the king or king or queen is actually opening parliament.
SPEAKER_01And Blackrod has the door slammed in his face?
SPEAKER_02Yes, all these these crazy traditions from old times. Yes.
SPEAKER_01There we go. But that's what makes it special, isn't it?
SPEAKER_02Somehow. Yes. Um, anyway, I want to talk about um so I you know I try to be a little bit more positive on on this state of mind that I'm currently in. And and I and it is a realisation, I'm not starting from scratch. That's the first thing. I thought well, I'm you know, this is not like you know, blank it is a blank canvas, but it's not a blank canvas.
SPEAKER_01I gave you a list of all your attributes earlier.
SPEAKER_02I did, thank you, and and well done for reading those out. So thank you, appreciate that. Um, but I'm reminded of you know, you remember our days back in Cognos, and and then you you you upped and left, and then not long after that, there was a swath of redundancies in the company, and you weren't responsible for that, I'm not suggesting that. But I uh I had the the experience of that. They they I was very redundant, along with six percent of the workforce, yes, the IBM acquisition then. And so, firstly, it's not my first time, it's not my first rodeo here, yeah. But the other thing is that I met a great counsellor who was very nice. Um, and you know, he basically said, Look, we've got all these facilities, you can look, he said, but I'm not we you know you I'm not gonna get you a job, your network, your people you know, whatever, you're gonna get a job. He said, But I want you to answer one question and then we can go to the pub. And I liked him for that as well because we had most of our meetings down the pub office. And he said, The question I'm gonna ask you is, what are you gonna do next time? And I looked at him shell-shocked, because I've been very redundant for the first time in my life. I'm still dealing with this, it's still raw, and you're telling me about next time, but the reality was that was the birth of um my older ego, the lazy project manager. It's the birth of writing, it was the birth because I wrote the because I started speaking, I was told to get a book and I wrote the lazy project manager, which somehow was a success. Um, that's led me to the you know, 500 plus presentations, 28 countries around the world type thing. Um and so there's the realization that in in my experience and my arsenal, if you like, is that ability to, you know, I it's not like I've lost a job and I have absolutely nothing else. I think it's what I think that's what I'm trying to say.
SPEAKER_01Well, and I think I think you've just made the point I was trying to make previously was that you didn't plan for that to happen, did you? That was an encounter with someone that gave you uh a phrase that triggered something in your brain that made you go off and do something which you'd never thought of before. And I think I'm arguing for that can happen again. You don't know what it is yet because it hasn't happened yet. So you know the future's full of potential, and at the moment I'm sure it's all very raw, and you're thinking of all the practical challenges associated with not having a regular income. But and and obviously one has to one has to deal with those practicalities. But I'm trying to encourage you to be open-minded about what this allows for, like you were when that chap says what's gonna happen next time around. And actually, if you've got those notes out now, you could see what you decided to do with it, you can then do this.
SPEAKER_02Well, I got another job and then I started lazy project manager, but in and in you know, it it it's maybe then I think what I put down here is it's not it's not the it's not the big question of do I retire or not. You know, that that is the hard one.
SPEAKER_01Well, I again I'd encourage you to think of being in elder essence and how you're gonna spend that time rather than thinking of binary rent.
SPEAKER_02What is what is the point of consolidation's kind of work freedom and and income that suits this new life is the kind of thing. It's like take those guiding, I suppose. You know, they are they are kind of pillars, you know, you you know, it's uh it's a bit like you know, if I go back to project management, you know, the the triple constraint, the iron triangle. Yes, you move one, the the other two have to move. So there's a reality of like I could say, um, well, I could, you know, you used to the camper van, so I could say, yeah, we could do that, but I can't go and buy an American RV that costs you know half a million pounds, for example.
SPEAKER_01Um but you you know, in the project management sort of triangle world, that the sort of the time element of that triangle, you know, was fixed in the sense that I mean you you know you could spend more money and you could bring a project in, but you actually that the time element of your life now is not a constraint. And so, for example, you could do something that you've never been able to do before, which is to say, I'm gonna take a year and I'm gonna deliberately not worry about this for a year, I'm gonna just I'm gonna embrace a project like you know, like this podcast, or going around the country with Juliet, and and just let it sit, let it sit with you to see where it leads.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, because you have time, Peter. I do have time. I I and I will come to that. I will come to that, but one of the other encouraging things, I think yeah, I was looking up some kind of quotes around this, and it was like what I like was you know, I've reached a stage where experience becomes more valuable than energy. So the value of the experience, and you know that my experience does have value, and and it's not about a stopping, it's about redesigning. Um I think that's where I would leave it. I think in a sense that that's what I feel is what I've got to go through. And there, you know, I said it wasn't I'm not going through grieving, but I think I think I am going through a a change, a metamorphosis, if you like, that's gonna take some time and that doesn't have to be solved today or tomorrow.
SPEAKER_01It doesn't, and and I think some time and I think we talked in previous podcasts about this allows for a reinvention if that's what you want to do, and you can take time doing it, and maybe these podcasts, as we continue to talk about it and hear other people's stories, may inspire you to go off down a new path. I mean, we heard this morning, didn't we, that actually we've been encouraged to go off and take the podcast onto YouTube.
SPEAKER_02Oh, I knew you'd get I knew you'd get that in. So you have the listeners, it's it's my wife who's been nagging me to stop, not stop on LinkedIn, but you know, we should be actually over on.
SPEAKER_01I'd encourage you to take a different uh attitude that she wasn't nagging you, she was making a suggestion you didn't agree with.
SPEAKER_02Well, there we go, there we there we differ, etc. So yeah, no, it's been interesting. It's been a lot well we've got half an hour now to to leg it at speed across to the the pub. We're going to the perch. Uh you're in charge of navigation now because we're deviating from the river to the left, I think, is the way we go. The river to the left. Um, if we don't get wet, then we're gonna get something nice and wet.
SPEAKER_01Well, I've enjoyed it, Peter. It's been a good one. Thank you for being open. I'm sure our listeners will appreciate your honesty and your sort of authenticity. I think that's what these podcasts are about, and uh well done, well done you, and hopefully, you know, you can be positive about the next few years in front of you.
SPEAKER_02All right, thanks, Dan. Thank you.
SPEAKER_00You have been listening to Walking Into Retirement, an unusual podcast about finding purpose and meaning and balance after a busy working life with David Ailings and Peter Taylor. Find out more at www.walking into retirement dot com. And why not share your own retirement stories?