#10 - Community - The importance of belonging - Symonds Yat/River Wye

In this episode, during a hot sunny walk along the beautiful river Wye at Symonds Yat, Peter and DAS explore community.

We are, after all, social creatures and the value of community through work is something other guests on the podcast has spoken to. But what happens when that 'work' community ends and what do you replace it with in life?

DAS accuses Peter of being a social 'loiterer' and Peter enjoys the walk even though he was expecting to just be in a pub.

By land and by boat the dynamic duo walk, talk and enjoy.

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:19

Walking into retirement, an unusual podcast about finding purpose, meaning, and balance after a busy working life with David Ailing Smith and Peter Taylor. Exploring the emotional, psychological, and practical realities of modern retirement through a series of reflective conversations undertaken whilst walking scenic routes across the UK.

SPEAKER_02 0:45

It is a riverside walk after the Thames. I know you don't like me doing the chronology wrong, but we have to do that.

SPEAKER_01 0:50

Yeah, I mean it's an interesting start to this one because the um you know I inquired on the health and safety uh people to look after us and they said uh with today likely to be around 35 degrees centigrade, which is 95 Fahrenheit. Yeah, they said probably best you don't go for a walk. Yeah. So I suggested we just go to a pub instead, and then you turned up and you kidnapped me, you've taken me to Simsia for a walk. It's shady though, isn't it? It's shady where we are at the moment, yes.

SPEAKER_02 1:13

Yeah, there wasn't much of a hill yet. So we are on the River Y, which uh you'll know, Peter, is the fourth largest, longest river in the UK, 150 miles. I didn't know that.

SPEAKER_01 1:24

I didn't know that. The only thing I know about the River Y is it bends a lot, and overlooking it is the famous house that was in sex education.

SPEAKER_02 1:33

There we go. That's true, that's a fun fact for Simmons Yat. Simmons Yat being the big rock, a big limestone 500 uh metre or foot cliff overlooking the the river. That is the Yat, yes. Yeah, um the the Y making the border between England and Wales for much of its route, but a very, very beautiful spot. So it but we're here today, Peter, to talk about community. So I've been very struck with how so many of our guests have said how much the people at work meant to them, and and I can relate to this how much they missed them afterwards. And I wondered whether we could perhaps explore the psychology of that a little bit more as to you know what is community at work about and how does it change when you're not working full-time. And you know, sometimes we talk about these podcasters perhaps giving people some assistance as they contemplate retirement or they just start retirement. We also sometimes say, I think there is something to be learnt from how to enjoy your working life by looking back on it so that perhaps people in work could get more out of it by recognising if you like what they're gonna miss when they go. So community is a big one, so that's what I'd like to talk about today.

SPEAKER_01 2:47

Okay, okay, a lot to talk about on community. Can I can I throw another Simmons Yak community story? Please do. Okay, just to ease our way into this subject. So there is a thing here at Sims Yacht. If you if you've ever been to Sims Yat or if you you decide to come to Sims Yat, it's lovely. But it really is it's um it's a it's a it's a town, it's a place of two halves, either side of the river. Yes. Um, one side has the yacht with the hill and everything else, and the other one has the beautiful woodland area and and a bit more of buildings, but very attractive buildings. But um, I don't know it's how often it is, I think it's just once a year, but they have a sing-off one side of the yacht, sing at the other side, and it's competitive, but it is a it's a community thing, isn't it? It's it's and and I want you know, I obviously I did some shallow research as ever of the community, and you know, one of the types of community is location or geography.

SPEAKER_03 3:41

Yes.

SPEAKER_01 3:41

So here we have a bunch of people live in one place, they've chosen to live here for various reasons. They are by default part of a community, how active they want to be or not is up to them. But there are events that bring them together, and this this sing-off sounds very, very exciting. I like I see what you did there.

SPEAKER_02 3:57

That's very clever, Peter. Very good link. It's good. I like it. I like the fact that you know people coming to buy a house in Shimon's Yap might be interrogated as to, you know, are you a tenor? Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 4:08

I think it's a matter of more how loud you are. I think it's actually it's a it's a it's it's a sing-off, you know, as opposed to a qualitative thing. We think it's a quantitative thing.

SPEAKER_02 4:16

We've we've come over to the west side of the of the river and we we came across on a on a hand-pooled ferry, didn't we? We did. Which uh I noticed you see the plaque on the wall to the singing ferryman.

SPEAKER_01 4:25

Well, we didn't have the singing ferryman because he's no longer with us, but he has another famous character locally with would serenade. I I don't I don't know what he might have sung. I mean, would it have been one cornetto or something like that? I don't know.

SPEAKER_02 4:36

I think, but I think given the geography of the place, I think this is a natural crossing point. And apparently it's that that ferry, uh, you know, a hand-pouled ferry, has been existing since Roman times. So, you know, we are walking in the footsteps of history, Peter, today. Wonderful.

SPEAKER_01 4:52

That's really captured. So so I think I've thrown one type of community out. I don't know where you're going with this. I know you've you've got a list. I can I can see him. He's got a he's got a sheaf of papers in front of him with his with his research and his notes. But are we gonna explore different types of community? How you how you want to go on this?

SPEAKER_02 5:06

I'm oh well, I'd like to perhaps before we start set off on our walk again, I'd like to perhaps discuss with you. I'd like to get your feedback about you know the importance of community at work. So if we talk about perhaps you know, why do we think it's important at work, and then we can perhaps go on to and so what happens when you leave work? You know, what what are you gonna miss? So there we go. So what give me some give me some thoughts?

SPEAKER_01 5:28

Well, I guess it's interesting. Well, all right, so I can reflect on my own experiences because it's very non-standard, of course, but that's okay. I don't think it's that non-standard, you know. Like my communities were either, you know, wife family, that kind of that's that's one, but apart from that, um it has predominantly been been work, and and that you know, that's an interesting experience over time because people come and go, and it's very easy to lose track of people. I think you're better than me at staying in touch with people, but well, I like people, Peter. You like people and people like you. Uh there are two fundamental differences between us. But no, I've I've met, and and there are some people, you know, whilst I was working with them for them, aligned to them, whatever, it's been very, very friendly. But as soon as I've moved on, um, particularly in in in a consultative work, you know, it's kind of you're just in and out all the time. So, you know, there's a there's a very small group of people. Um yeah, even recently after my you know my departure from the last company, you know, I've I've had a couple of catch-up calls, but it's been with two, three people, you know, about that. And and they're spread across the world, which makes it you know a challenging community. So it's one of the reasons we were talking in the car, you know, about our uh wife and I's planned move away from where we are into a very more community-driven environment. I think it feels it. You know, we're gonna go to a place called Tetbury, which is a Cotswold town. Yeah, it feels far more of a place where I can engage and create or join communities that I'm realizing I'm probably not gonna have from work even for because you know, I think it feels like if I get any more work, it's gonna be on an interim basis, consultative basis, you're not gonna build relationships during that period of time. So, so yeah, that's that's kind of where I am.

SPEAKER_02 7:16

Well, so I think you said a couple of things there which I've been mulling over. So the sort of the temporary nature of the community in which you work, you know, you you you find a way of making a relationship, but it's you know, it's nothing to say you have to like the people you work with, is that it's nothing to say you have much in common other than the the working environment. And so there's something there for me about about structure. You know, you're working within a guideline, you're all perhaps working towards a common goal, you have a sort of a collective engagement. So your your relationship with people is constructed around the focus of the organization, which whilst is a is a it's not a personal construct, it means that you are you do have a sense of community with people that you otherwise wouldn't have had. And I think it's important. I think we're social animals, aren't we? I think we're not we're not built to be isolated. Um, and so we spend a lot of time with our work, and so that component of working with people, I think, is important to lots of people. And we know organizations where the culture's great and people are engaged with the culture seem to be much more happy and successful, don't they, than cultures that we've worked in that are not that are not so positive. No, turnover's higher, um, you know, attrition is is is you know, people leave for more money, that sort of thing. Whereas the opposite is also true. If you get people stay, they form relationships, they they seem to be able to be more efficient at their work. And so there's something positive about community at work, even though it's fabricated, you know, it's uh you're buying into a a story, aren't you, as a as a community at work? Yes, yes, I think so.

SPEAKER_01 8:53

I I do I do agree with that. Although I, you know, it's just you know, branching out into uh what's going on in the world at the moment with the whole of the swathe of redundancies and AI-driven change and all that. That threatens that kind of that mid-to-long-term community build culture uh significantly.

SPEAKER_02 9:10

I think I think that's why a lot of folks in our old industry are very unsettled at the moment because I think people, you know, as as as humans, I think we want to be part of something bigger, you know, we like that collective endeavour. I think that's true from for most of us. Um there's something about better decision making when you're in a crowd, you know, wisdom of crowds. And so, you know, when that logic is threatened by something as amorphous as AI, I think it's very unsettling. That's all I think it speaks against one of the tenants of people that like working with people. One of the reasons they enjoy work. Um I'm fascinated by the fact that you know we we get pushed together at work into a structure where there's guidelines, we have contributions, we get feedback, there are rules, oversight. Um communication at work tends to be thoughtful and considered. There's sort of boundaries around the way you work and behave. And obviously, we all have our sort of morality and our ethos about talking to people, but it's overlaid in an organization, isn't it, with other things. So there's a there's a hierarchical way of doing things. There's a there's there's our set piece way of doing things, thinking about town halls and and and um regular meetings, and we sort of we we we some people like those, some people don't like those, but we adjust to them, don't we? And I and I'm gonna come on later to think actually, I think that's part of the lack of structure that people struggle with when they leave work because they they learn, they optimise. I think people optimise themselves around their communication around a business, and I think outside of that structure, for many people it's hard because you you know you don't have those set piece events, you've got to make your own wind, as it were, in terms of the way you communicate with people. You don't have a common um objective, you may not have anything in common with the people around you geographically, but as at work that didn't matter because you had the organization, so I think that's that's a thing, I think.

SPEAKER_01 11:08

Can I just explore one thing there? Because uh you know, we we've worked in a very hybrid style in the past, you know, lots of hybrids, you know, lots of remote work, but lots of all face-to-face. I I don't know if you reflect on your uh community that you or perhaps are still connected to, or you know, would could have a friendly conversation with. How many of those have been predominantly remote-based versus how many of those have been face-to-face engagements? Because you know, I would say all of the people that I you know referred to that I have remained in conversation with have been the ones that we've sat in a room or we've gone for a beer or we've gone for a nice meal or done some crazy things, um, you know, entertainment-wise. But um they've been this been the real in-person connection.

SPEAKER_02 11:56

Yeah, it's an interesting I I would have I I would I think my closest relationships with the people I've sort of met face to face, broken bread with, you know, spent time with, but I do know that after COVID, and you know I took on a job straight after COVID, so I didn't see my team, didn't see anyone for like a year and a half. It was the strangest thing, really. And as part of that sort of leadership role, I found myself oversharing. You know, Beverly, my wife, used to get really, you know, she asked, she kept saying to me, Well, why are you why are you going through all this all this personal detail? And I made a conscious commitment that you know, if I was going to be able to work with these people, it's important I got to know them, and so part of my role it felt like was to be very authentic, and so being authentic, I'd talk about my family, I'd talk about you know my my interests and was very open with them. And I found that I do have good friends that I've met only once or twice because of that experience. But that's new for me, that is very new.

SPEAKER_01 12:53

Perfect. Well, like as we sit here with the sun coming down this little group of ducks now, no longer ducklings, I would say, they're just swimming past.

SPEAKER_02 13:05

It's very idyllic. You you're this is you're you're making you want to move on the noises, aren't you?

SPEAKER_01 13:09

No, I'm not. I'm just I'm trying to give I'm trying to paint a visual picture for our for our listeners, you know. It's it's part of it. But yes, all right, we're gonna move on and um we'll be back. So well since we last spoke, we've had a nice walk. Hot walk. That that side of the river was getting very hot towards the end, but we just we've come across a little kind of a meadow area. There's a uh a youth centre that does obviously outdoor type activities. Uh a family were having a nice uh barbecue under the barn that's been built there or the barn building, and we've just come over a really quite spectacular bridge, um, which moved a lot but was quite quite quite fun, wasn't it? It's a suspension bridge, suspension bridge, that's the word actually saves us like a five miles on our walk, I think. Absolutely, yeah. That's a technical zone as opposed to a movie about bridge. Very good.

SPEAKER_02 14:02

And we're sitting here in a little woodland area, it's been a bit of cuffing going on, and I've got uh got my bird up running, and that's a that's a black cap we can all hear, and a chifchaff going uh behind us there. Oh, okay. Called a chifchaff because it makes a chifchaff noise.

SPEAKER_01 14:15

Chifchaff, chifchaff. Okay, lovely, lovely. And are you gonna sing the lumberjack lumberjack song because that the lumberjack song because we're sitting on a wood pile?

SPEAKER_02 14:22

No, I don't I'll uh I'll uh I'll leave that be if you don't mind. Okay, fine. So we were talking about community, weren't we? We were indeed, yes. And the importance of it, and I and I'm sort of I'm trying to sort of get to the point where I can perhaps explore what happens when you don't have it at work.

SPEAKER_01 14:37

You're trying, you're trying to navigate me to where you want me to be, aren't you?

SPEAKER_02 14:39

Because you know we like work has been over the last 30 years. I think we talked about the importance of it, but but I think the one area we didn't really cover very much, which which I think is important to a lot of people, is belonging. You know, we belonging, belonging, that sense of belonging to a community. You know, if you think about the world at work, I mean it's where a lot of friendships are made. I know you said you don't have any friends from work. Well, I've got you, haven't I? Yeah, it's true. That's true. So we have friendship, reinforcement, partners. You know, people meet their lifelong partners at work, don't they? They do. Um, you know, there's all the stories, there's that it's like a you know, it's like a soap opera, isn't it, for people that like the gossip. You know, there's always something going on about something in the company. Um you've got learning, support.

SPEAKER_01 15:22

Um, there's periodic events as well. I was talking about face-to-face. We used to have that thing, you know, the annual sales kickoff, which was was 50% nightmare and was 50% fun because you'd reconnect with people you haven't perhaps certainly hadn't seen for a year, but you know, may not be engaged for it.

SPEAKER_02 15:38

So it's a forced community, but it is a real community with real structure to it. And I and I'm sure it it does when it's when it works, it boosts well-being, I think, and mental health. I think there's something about being surrounded by people that you either like or you're engaged with or you have common ground with. Um, and I think I think I think it's one of the problems actually with um distance working at the moment. I think that sense of community at work, I think, is a sort of a sink for stress and anxiety for people. They've got people to talk to their worry people about their worries. And you know, if they'd if they're if they're not if they're not meeting by the apocryphal water cooler, you know, they're at home in their back bedroom working away. I think it's I think it's a concern. I think there's going to be an epic, you know, an uh uh epidemic, probably of mental health challenges associated with people being more isolated because they're not engaged with communities at work, is my my choice.

SPEAKER_01 16:27

It's an interesting one, isn't it? Because you know, there are a lot of people that argue the opposite and say it's that you know, by not having the stress of having to get to work and communicate and engage and work, you know, then in a certain environment, all that. But you know, I I agree. I think I think you know, we've we've worked in that hybrid manner for so long, but I think you know, we've always valued the face-to-face, we've always valued to get together, yeah. We've always valued the opportunity to just chill out with a few people and have some fun.

SPEAKER_02 16:52

And it's where ideas come from, isn't it? It's where innovation comes from. I think my daughter, as you know, works in London, and you know, she was telling me last night she's going to work really early to avoid the heat of the tubes uh today because it's going to be unbearable. Yeah. You can imagine on the tubes. But remember post-pandemic, how people just craved contact again. So you know, there was something there that people missed when they didn't have it. And I think that sort of leads beyond perhaps to the importance of community after work. Okay. And how do you, you know, what what happens when you miss all of those things? And there's a couple of elements of this for me. Obviously, there's there's there's the sort of friendship groups, or even even not the close friendship groups, but the the networking groups that you can fabricate, and I think perhaps it's important too, you know, we've talked in the past, haven't we, about the importance of not being isolated. They say, you know, you know, this whole elder essence process, which we we keep going back to. I think is is about aging gracefully, actually, or aging happily. I think there's something about let's go with happily, I guess. I'm not sure gracefully, but yeah. Well, and I think part of that is about if that's what you want and that gives you energy, finding a way to bring other people into your lives.

SPEAKER_01 18:07

You know, well, I think there are there are there are kind of not false constructs necessarily, but you know, a lot of organizations have alumni um groups. Yeah, you know, I've had a couple of organizations I we uh KPMG, for example, had one, but you know, I was never particularly actively interested or engaged with it, so but there is that, there's no doubt about that. And then some of those obviously go back to your your educational years as well. Um, and more often than not, you know, these days, you're quite often, um I mean Mrs. T, I mean she collects WhatsApp groups from everywhere she goes. So, you know, I think all of all of her jobs uh and also other activities, she's got a series of WhatsApp groups that uh you know constantly create and make her phone go bing.

SPEAKER_02 18:49

Yeah, there's loads of there's loads of ways to do it, aren't there? I just I just I keep getting reinforced about how important that is, and but how difficult it is for people as well, because as I said before, at work you're forced together through the organisational sort of direction of travel, but when you're not in a work context, you've got to make that effort to join something or to meet people or to make a link with your community through you know activism or contributing to something, and that takes effort. Yeah, and if you're not that way inclined, if you're shy or you actually you don't like people very much, you know, there's a danger, isn't there, of actually not having that reinforcement of community. And they do say for you know for the elderly that loneliness is the biggest epidemic sort of facing an aging population, don't they?

SPEAKER_01 19:39

Yeah, well, I can reflect on a very I went to see my dad like a good son because it's it was Father's Day at the weekend. Um, and and I said, rather than you know, quite often I'd just turn up with some coffee and we'd sit and chat for a couple of hours or whatever. But I said, Would you like to go out? And he said, Yes, I would like to go out. And we went to a coffee shop and we sat down, um, and it was it was very noisy, really noisy in there. And I said to him, Are you okay here? Because it's very, very noisy. He goes, you know, I'm happy here. It's it's you know, silence is is my world. Yes. And actually, you know, he said, I don't want to sit here too long, I'll be honest, but you know, yeah, this is this is life, so I you know, I kind of I kind of enjoying it at the moment.

SPEAKER_03 20:19

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 20:20

So um, yeah, yeah. Well, and we've and from our from our from our guests, we've heard a variety of them. You know, we've heard from one guest who was like questioning where where they went because they finished work and that was their predominant community, yes, apart from their close family. We've had other people that have talked about or you know, parallel activities had through life, hobbies, or whatever it may be. And we've had someone who's talked about things they have done or organized to do since they've retired.

SPEAKER_02 20:47

So and and when and the the one that you know hopefully is coming up is the sort of the dilemma of being more exposed to your family, where actually that's not where you want, because you know, you you don't choose your family, do you? You choose your friends, but you don't choose your family, and so there is that element of being more exposed to family. And there were lots of people listening to this, I'm sure, that don't have the strongest relationships with members of their family, and they you know they feel out of duty, feel obliged to spend more time with them because they have time outside of work. So I think it's that's a difficult dynamic, which I'm looking forward to talking to our colleague about. Um, but going back to the psychology of the fact that you know we're thrust together at work through a group that actually our only common interest is is is work, um, and the fact the structure of work gives us mechanisms by which we talk to people and we get talked to. I'm fascinated by the fact that we we sort of optimize ourselves, I think, as busy working people around that way of working. And so when you're out of work, you don't have that structure, and I think you're very ill prepared for how do you deal with those sort of social interactions. I may be making too much of this, but not everyone finds it.

SPEAKER_01 21:55

Not everyone's a joiner. I mean, I think yeah, there is a there is a definite there are the joiners of the world and there. Yeah. And you know, you know, that's something I'm struggling with. Is like, you know, we've got a move coming up, want to move to a much closer type village town environment where I know there's a lot going on, a lot of cafe culture, but a lot of activities. But I'm not a joiner, so it's gonna be interesting to see where I go with that because this you know, the thought of going, oh, I quite like to do this and just turn up to a meeting one day.

SPEAKER_02 22:24

Yeah, you're a loiterer, aren't you? I can see you sort of sitting on the fringe of lots of things until you get noticed, and then people all engage.

SPEAKER_01 22:33

You know, I've done you know, I've done PTA, I've been a governor of a school and stuff in the past. It's but I guess that that's interesting. I think they'll they are more work-oriented type activities as opposed to I'm just gonna go on to the local crochet club or the hobby, Peter.

SPEAKER_02 22:47

You know, you've heard me talk about this before. You need a hobby.

SPEAKER_01 22:49

Yeah, you need a hobby. How many hobbies?

SPEAKER_02 22:52

Well, you've got one, which is making podcasts.

SPEAKER_01 22:55

Okay, it's a hobby, I guess. I'll take it more seriously than that. But there we go. Well, I write, I mean, that's a hobby for me. That's I find that very relaxing. I think you should take it more seriously than that. Okay, right. Might write a best seller one day, you never know. Yeah, yeah. Um, but I think you know, it it is that this is gonna be interesting because I think uh, you know this creation where where we're gonna go to the environment. We've I mean I mean it's become very clear where I want to be type the type of community world I want to be in. But it comes back. I was talking earlier around about you know, there are geographic communities, there are, if you like, uh subject-based communities, yeah, whether you're in knitter or a singer or something like that, um, that allows you to join. Um, there are purpose-based, you know, yeah, whether that be for kind of charity work or or something local, you know, we're on the Y. There's a lot of communities that are supporting the you know, make the Y super clean and clear again, and do it a lot of work. Um, so I think there are a number of ways into that sort of community, but it is taking it, haven't you? It's the first step in there, I suppose. And the first step is the hardest, perhaps.

SPEAKER_02 23:59

Yes, I think so too.

SPEAKER_01 24:00

Well, why don't we on that bombshell we'll move on? Yeah. Okay, we are at the oh, it tells me I was gonna say, I I couldn't remember the name of the pub, but it's it's come up on the screen here. So the Saracens Head Inn is where we have just enjoyed the lunch.

SPEAKER_03 24:16

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 24:16

And a very, very refreshing fight of something. Yeah, it's almost the best bit of the walk, that wasn't it? It was. We you know, we've done the work and there was the reward. I was gonna reflect before we we begin to wrap this subject up because I did make some notes which I've left in my pocket up until now, but um this the Y Tour is a very famous thing. Why actually the Y Tour? Okay, so it's I mean it actually started in Ross on Y, um which is just up the road. But there's this national craze that started in the Victorian times around the kind of the Y Tour. It's 1770. That's not the Victorian Times, is it? That's before that. Uh about 200 years, but the clergyman and travel writer William Gilpin took a boat trip down the river Y and subsequently published Observations on the River Y in 1782. There we go. Um, widely considered the UK's very first illustrated tourist guidebook. Well, that's fantastic. And in 1789, thanks to the French Revolution, that we go wide on this, it was no longer safe for the elite to travel into Europe, something to do with losing their heads.

SPEAKER_03 25:18

Yes.

SPEAKER_01 25:18

Um, so the Y Tour was promoted as a safe alternative without the risk of losing your heads, as he said. So, and then the arrival of the Hereford, Ross, and Gloucester Railways in 1855 cemented its status as a busting Victorian resort market town, bringing prosperity and further architectural development, but also cascading down into the whole of the Y Valley, where we are right now, where there were boat trips and there were events and gatherings, and it became a bit of a bit of a big thing in the Victorian period. We finally got to the Victorian period.

SPEAKER_02 25:47

No, well, I I can see that, and I'm just so impressed with your research period. I just wonder what why have you started to do research all of a sudden?

SPEAKER_01 25:56

Well, because we were originally going to go to Ross and Y. Oh. Plan A was to do a walk around here. Plan B was because of the intense heat. I suggested we just go to Ross on Y to a park. I see. Plan C is where you hijacked me and brought me on the walk anyway, which was lovely. You loved it, come on, you loved it. It was hot though, wasn't it? Yes, but it was yeah, it was down here, it was down here that they did the and there were a lot of uh you know, sort of pleasure craft were down here, and the Victorians descended on the place on the trains because they loved that. Yeah, um, and it became a bustling tourist, and it still is, and even today it's it is a tourist destination, effectively.

SPEAKER_02 26:31

Very busy, isn't it, today?

SPEAKER_01 26:32

Well, not too bad, but it's not too busy, but definitely I know it can get very busy at weekends.

SPEAKER_02 26:36

Well, it's been nice. I like it. I like it. I think I think we should I like the theme of walking alongside rivers, I have to say. But we should wrap up, I think. We should. Enough of that. So we've been talking about community and we've been talking about the importance of community at work and the consequences perhaps of not having a ready-made community once you stop work. And you know, we we talked a little bit, didn't we, off Mike, about the difference between a work community and a non-work community.

SPEAKER_01 27:01

We were exploring that over lunch, weren't we? You know, whether that's you know, what can be translated, what country, what rules change effectively.

SPEAKER_02 27:07

But I think what I was trying to say earlier was that I think you know, during a working life, you become optimized to sort of the social mores and the interconnections associated with your work. I know it doesn't always, you know, not everyone likes this, but I think you do find a way of dealing with it. You deal with hierarchies, you deal with politics, you deal with friendship groups, you deal with cliques, you find a way of you know making friends or at least getting on with people, and sometimes you make really good friends.

SPEAKER_01 27:34

Well, there's a there's a much needed acceptance, I think, of those two. You just accept them and therefore they learn less of a lot of people. Because you have to, don't you?

SPEAKER_02 27:41

Yes, but it's it's it's served up to you on a plate, a network is available. And of course, that is not true when you stop work. No, um and so if you're not a joiner, you know. I think there's the dilemma about either you decide you're going to withdraw, which for all the reasons we've talked about, I don't think is a good idea because I think we are social animals in the main. Um, and so how do you how do you stay engaged? Where do you get your sense of community from? We talked about the fact that's obviously family, you don't choose your family, and that's not always positive for everybody, and then it's your friends, and so the family and family are fine in in small doses, there's nothing wrong with that, but of course, and and I think most people get a lot of pleasure from their family. So I'm just acknowledging the fact we're all different, and some families are challenging for some people, but so friendship groups are important, and outside of work, friendship groups, I think you have to work at it, don't you? You've got to you know, get it gotta get out and about, I think, be active, you know, get involved in the community, find ways in which you can bring your own particular penchant passions, your capabilities. You know, if you're a lurker, you you sit on the edge of the queue.

SPEAKER_01 28:42

Yay, lurker. I'm you know, I don't really know. I've I've just um and there is a pleasure craft going past right now. There's a bunch of things. They look as though they're having pleasure on it as well. Yeah, it's very pleasurable pleasure. Um, yeah, I I've I I'm on a course at the moment to to become a fully qualified hermit. It's just my new hobby. Are there any is there anyone else in that course? Hermitage. No, it's a very private course. Oh, but it's not even a lecturer. Are you taking it in a cave? Yes, somewhere off the off the Welsh coast. No, I I you know it's something I personally and I'm sure a lot of people have to do. It's like, you know, you're right. It it you know, you don't want to be isolated, you don't want to not have a life, you do not have sociability or interaction, therefore, it is a matter of getting up and trying things. I think people say that, you know, you just try things, you know, you join a society and leave a society if you don't like it, um you know, um, and you know, see how that goes. And so that certainly is my intention. And who knows, in a year's time, I do become a very sociable person.

SPEAKER_02 29:37

I do feel responsibility here as your only friend, actually.

SPEAKER_01 29:39

I feel that I'll give you a burden, you mean well, like you know, you'd like more time to yourself. Um you're also nervous about the fact that I'm a team, I constantly attempt to move nearer and nearer to you.

SPEAKER_02 29:50

It's getting closer, isn't it?

SPEAKER_01 29:54

Is that not too far, is it? That's gotta be nearer to where I am at the moment. Yes, it is, I guess. Yeah, no, it'd be great. Tell everybody not to worry.

SPEAKER_02 30:00

It'd be great. Okay, so I think well, I think we've we've agreed. Community is a good thing. Uh you get a lot of it for free at work, and you've got to work at it outside of work, but to ignore it, you ignore it at your pale. There's a there's a loneliness pandemic out there for the older generation, yeah, which we're not part yet, because we're in eldorescence. Yes. But I think something to do, there's something to do about the quality of life as you outside of work which involves people, whoever you are, and that needs effort, I think. Yeah, yeah. There we go. So should we leave it there?

SPEAKER_01 30:30

Well, you've said elder essence twice. Would you like to say it one more time for the hat trick?

SPEAKER_02 30:34

Well, the book title, um, Eldorescence the Making of an Elder is out there. And uh just need to write it now. Okay, okay, we're off. Thanks, Peter.

unknown 30:44

Bye.

SPEAKER_00 30:46

You have been listening to Walking Into Retirement, an unusual podcast about finding purpose, meaning, and balance after a busy working life with David Aileen Smith and Peter Taylor. Find out more at www.walking into retirement.com. And why not share your own retirement stories with the hosts of WhatsApp?