8. Shooting the Lights Out Beyond Cricket - Pete Johnston (Part 2)

In this second part of our conversation with Pete, we explore the importance of fostering an environment where players are encouraged to pursue excellence both on the cricket field and beyond the sport. Success, as discussed, extends beyond results; it is also measured by the positive influence players have on those around them. We delve into the unique challenges of preparing for high-performance cricket and examine how teams adapt their training, mindset, and preparation to meet the demands of the highly competitive environment.

Transcript

SPEAKER_02 0:10

Welcome to the Mastering High Performance Podcast with Nadine McCarthy and Paul Hamill, where we go behind the scenes with high performers from sport and business to reveal stories, insights, and strategies about what it really takes to master high performance.

SPEAKER_00 0:28

I think good people make, you know, good good teams as well. And I think people getting on with people is is so important in the world today. So it's trying to both create an environment where where that is uh happening and giving life experiences outside of cricket because not everybody is gonna shoot the lights out and become a world-class cricketer, but they can shoot their lights out being in in many different ways in their life and and having a positive impact on on other people in many different ways. So I I think that that too is success and a big thing that I would focus on with all my teams is wherever we go or whatever opportunities we get that we experience uh where we are.

SPEAKER_01 1:17

Welcome back, follow to Iraq to part two of our conversation with Pete Johnston, Director of Emerging Player Performance at Cricket Island. In this clip, Pete talks about the importance of creating environments and experiences where players can grow, not just as cricketers, but as people, and how success is also about having a positive impact on others. Later on, he shares some of the unique challenges of high performance cricket and how they adapt in competitive environments. Welcome in and enjoy.

SPEAKER_00 2:04

There's huge challenges, yeah. So uh conditions, um so heat obviously is a big factor in in the southern hemisphere and subcontinent. Um pitches are are differ around the world, some are bouncy and fast, some spin more. Um they're they're big big challenges for us because we have to expose, like for me, we can do all the simulation indoors in terms of skill development, but without the exposure uh to those conditions and and the uh or you know, it could be also I suppose tournament cricket or or cricket, you know, with something riding on it, without those experiences, I'm not sure you can ever make the the skill development at the same speed. Um I think you kind of hit a a certain level and it's hard then without exposing the player to say playing in South Africa against you know an international team or or playing England over Loughborough, um you have to experience it and then it's so much easier, I think, to go back to your skill development and because they they know what it looks like and feels like and and they get it very quickly. And I think that's something is uh I'm proud of our players that any situation we get into, any exposure we get, we absolutely make the most of it. So we would be big on reviewing performance, obviously, post-game, you know, looking at it in detail, um breaking skill set groups down, you know, no different, I suppose, to to rugby and in cricket, you'll have your uh you know, your your fast bowling pack essentially, you need to be reflecting on their skills, the spinners and and your batters, and and and getting those small skill set groups, I suppose, to share ideas and reflect on performance and then to come back as a group as a whole. Um but that that to me is what speeds up development is really appropriate level of exposure at the right times to different conditions, um, to different opposition. And and that's the other thing, different opposition around the world will play a different way as well, that have different strengths in terms of international opposition that you'll have to get uh exposed to.

SPEAKER_02 4:26

Do you have any um have you any little quirky um adaptations that you used kind of to create within within your own environment? And what I'm getting at is I remember years ago, uh Brian Kerr and Noah Reilly in in soccer, they used to go down to Limerick, and I think they used to put on the the radiators really you know, for a long time to kind of try to create a hot environment, you know. And I know now they have altitude pods and stuff like that nowadays, but but as as as of its time, it was quirky and was something they could do. Have you any little quirky ones that to to try and recreate some of these situations without having to go to the actual place to do it?

SPEAKER_00 5:06

I remember uh going back to A.D. Burrell's days in 2007. So obviously Irish cricket can be a little bit different, you know. You can you can sometimes get a lot more rain around or wetter outfields sometimes. So I remember him wetting balls and training, you know. So if the team were playing a series at home, he would be uh putting the balls in the bucket and getting the bowlers to still try and grip it when it's when it's wet. Um I suppose it would be little things like you'd be maybe trying to rough up a ball to try and um replicate, say on an abrasive outfield in the subcontinent, uh the ball will get roughed up. So you might rough up a ball to try and replicate maybe uh a bowler getting a thing called reverse swing. Um so that's uh you might rough up one side of the ball. Um we put down you know different uh we have a spin bowling machine, um, or if the spinners are bowling to replicate turn, we'll put down different matting to try and get the ball to to turn a little bit more and make it a little bit more extreme. So we're trying to, I suppose, replicate those surfaces. Um overloading guys, I suppose, you know, uh so when you when you're batting in nets, um trying to make it match specific, trying to get them to run between the wickets to get them tired and to bat under that physical exhaustion. You might not have the heat, but you can make them run in between their the balls they face in training um to to try and replicate, I suppose, what it feels like to be batting for a long period of time in heat. Um trying to think of other people.

SPEAKER_02 6:40

Yeah, and and uh everything you're explaining there, there's nothing quirky quirky about that really, but it certainly demonstrates being able to adapt and trying to work within the environment that you have normally, you know.

SPEAKER_00 6:53

Exactly. And then you know that there's there's different ways of um getting guys sharper in terms of playing pace. So if we haven't maybe got the the pace bowlers, you can you can make drills with this hard plastic balls which you can throw off a uh a slab like a marble slab to replicate pace and get the the hand speed up for a batter. Um all those sort of little things, yeah. And I guess that's a big part of it is trying to trying to make the practice specific for what you're gonna come up against as as best you can.

SPEAKER_02 7:26

Before I hand back to Nadine, I want to ask you around how you balance the need within the development space, how do you balance that need to win versus development? And I suppose win in the context of winning games and how you manage the expectations around that.

SPEAKER_00 7:45

Yeah, I think it's it's really interesting. Um because I think if you wanna if you want to play your best, you have to strive to win. So you have to think about okay, well, what what do we need to do to win the game? There's also a phase where you know you'd be in your your training camp essentially, and you might be playing some warm-up games uh ahead of a big tournament. And then it's understanding that and it's the team understanding that it's not about winning now, it's about winning later. So the I suppose the the outcome isn't as important, but the process is is is really important, and you're still trying to have a process. You might be you know rotating players, you might be uh using a bigger, bigger squad. Sometimes you're playing 12 players instead of 11, but you still have to try and play the same way, which is is to win the game within that. But the outcome obviously uh the overall outcome of winning is is less important than the process of uh setting things up to win later and have as many players ready uh to be in a position to do that when the when the when it comes to the crunch in the in the competitive tournament environment. Um and then yeah, like I think it's really important you optimize, you don't put all your eggs in in one basket, you need a squad, and and again that comes back to the team ethics. So you need to give everyone good opportunity where possible because you're only going to be as strong as as say you know the the 15th player who who may or not get into your side. So um I think that's that's really important, but again, it's about the players understanding that. Um and there's many ways you can you can look at a suppose appraising uh performance um other than just winning and losing, it's a it's a pretty nuanced thing, you know. There's so many little factors you can pull out, um and as we saw last night with the soccer, it comes down to fine margins at times, um and and I guess not over emphasizing the winning or losing ultimately, but really sort of digesting the performance, uh, what was done well and where are the areas we can improve um and building on those strengths, but also looking to improve on certain areas.

SPEAKER_02 10:12

And and any tips on how to manage other stakeholders? So you're you're making it sound very, very straightforward and easy there, and I'm sure it is because you've got a good system set up, but you mentioned parents earlier, and I'm sure there are other stakeholders. How any tips on how you manage what you're describing there in terms of their expectations?

SPEAKER_00 10:31

Yeah, it's interesting. Um yeah, so with with parents, I think it's it's it's just massively important to bring them in on the journey, make them feel part of it. We had a a huge number of parents and family came out to the the last World Cup. Um and you know, we have we have a sort of uh the manager would would run a ceremony where they get their caps and the parents are there, and and Irish cricket, it's it's not not a massive community, so you end up having good relationships, I think, with the parents uh by and large, and getting to know them around cricket. Um and trying the big thing, I think, is is making sure they're on the same page as you in terms of supporting the player and not pulling it a different direction or feeling in that victim mindset, which will then rub off on the player. So it is it is a huge part um knowing that you have those parents on the same page and and supporting the player and and also knowing the bigger picture, because I think a lot of the time when a player gets into say a uh a program where there's a World Cup um at youth level, there's a big focus around that, and it's almost like that's the be-all and end all, but it's not, it's just part of a longer journey. So it's it's explaining that um and and giving evidence as well. You know, look, here's these players that didn't actually go to a World Cup, but they're now senior professional cricketers, so trying to provide evidence as well. Um, or here's a player who had a terrible World Cup, but two years later he was playing for Ireland. Um so yeah, it's just giving them a sense of clarity, I think, at all times. Um I generally before the World Cup, just to reinforce it, I'll I I'll write a letter to the parents as well, kind of explaining some of those things, and and I'll certainly reference how you know we're we're all supporting the players and and and how much as a parent myself I know how how much commitment and effort parents put in around giving uh their sons or daughters the the opportunity to play sport. Um and and you know, in a city like Dublin with with the traffic, it can be it can be huge levels of of commitment around that. So it yeah, I think they're a massive part of the journey. Um stakeholders again, look, I I think as a professional coach as well, you've got to be upfront with the media as well, in terms of um making sure they understand uh where you're at, what your challenges are, what your expectations are, um for and then also within the organization, I think you need to evidence sometimes to to senior management, let's say, um, around how uh opportunities are obviously really important, and maybe you haven't got as many opportunities as other teams, and the learning obviously comes through those those experiences and and and looking at ways that you can close the gap so so we know financially we're not uh ever gonna match England's programme. Um, but perhaps there are certain ways that we can take little steps. Um so for me it's about okay, if we're gonna review a cycle or a tournament, well then these are steps that we probably need, minimum steps, not outrageous, but minimum steps that we need to to you know keep progressing and let's say potentially get to a semi-final of a World Cup. Um so so that I think is an important part, but it needs to be evidenced. So you need to know what world's best looks like, and then you need to have a think about where we are in reality and and and where we could get to in in terms of that as well.

SPEAKER_02 14:36

I'm aware your your approach is very much developing the person as well as the player. Could you just give me a little bit of an insight into why you feel strongly on that?

SPEAKER_00 14:47

Yeah, um look, I think good people make you know good good teams as well. And and I think you know, if you're gonna have a cohesive team, um that it's a really important part of that those players can get on with each other, spend a lot of time in cricket on the field and off the field together. Um in sometimes challenging environments, challenging uh countries. Um so it is it is really important that it's about people um and life's about people. So I think people getting on with people is is so important in the world today. So it's trying to uh I suppose create an environment where where that is uh happening um and giving life experiences outside of cricket because not everybody is gonna uh shoot the lights out and become a world-class cricketer, uh, but they can shoot their lights out being in in many different ways in their life and and having a positive impact on on other people in many different ways. So I I think that that too is success, and a big thing that I would focus on with all my teams is wherever we go or whatever opportunities we get, that we experience uh where we are and and and you know go on excursions, um be it to game park or uh you know different experiences or paddleboarding in the West Indies or whatever it may be, but just to to have different experiences outside of cricket, uh, I think is is really important from an education and life experience point of view. Um you know it's always great to see as well the lads. We we will get opportunities to maybe work with say disadvantaged players in in some uh countries that are uh you know third world or borderline third world countries essentially. Um and the enjoyment and I suppose satisfaction that the players take from giving back and and working with those kids and helping them with their cricket is is really positive and really rewarding. And I and I also think you know the the most credit you can have is is probably when you you get positive feedback from you know organizers of a tournament or opposition, the way you conduct yourself like it it is so important to be good ambassadors for Ireland as well. Um yeah, so it's it's a it's a huge thing, and and you know, uh we take every opportunity we can to get the players to uh to do different activities or different excursions and to embrace any country they're in and to have an education and uh and and you know I think the the great thing is and and you know I think it's it's largely down to them is as well you you see them in their downtime, you know, playing poker or playing games or and and doing it uh in the in their downtime together and and and just enjoying the experience or singing songs or um and and that's it's it's a really positive thing, I think, and it's fun and it's engaging and you want to be there and um your teammates can lift you you know when you when you when you're maybe not doing so well. Um but yeah, uh it's something I would value really, really high is is uh yeah just being good people, I guess, and learning, learning from every experience, not just the cricketing experiences, but the experience of having a roommate for four weeks or the experience of you know seeing some amazing things in some of these incredible countries that we get to go to is so so important and and it it can be a massive pitfall, I think, for teams who get too caught up in their own bubble and too caught up in uh robotic nature of maybe professional sport. Um I really think uh it it uh it is so important uh uh uh just keeping players grounded, but also keeping them uh less anxious, you know, just in in a good space mentally and and rejuvenate them in recover recovery. I think it's all the really important part of recovery. And and I I think if you don't lead the squad in that direction, uh it can become a pretty dark place for some people who aren't, let's say, having the the tournament they expected. Um, but if you do lead them in that direction, I think they just want to do more of it as a team or they want to experience more things. Um so I think for any coach, that is a really important part. Just on that, one of the teams of this last World Cup, um, I won't say which team, but uh I said, oh, because that they were based in one of the countries for for a long period. Um I was like, oh, what what did you guys do? And and the answer was oh well, we we asked the players what they wanted to do, and they didn't come up with anything, so we didn't do anything. And then the next thing was by the last game, uh you know, saying, Oh, I had the last game go, oh, the guys had completely checked out. So it's like no surprise really to me. Um, you know, it it can't just be a mind on cricket 24-7. Um, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 20:26

That's brilliant. Yeah, great, great insight. Thank you very much.

SPEAKER_01 20:30

Okay, and I'm gonna just I have a couple of questions just to finish off, but um, I'm really curious there about the stakeholder piece that um Paul was talking to you about. But I was thinking about the the key stakeholder really is the player and the performer. And I was just thinking bringing it back into the systemic piece around the pathways, you know, and you've operated Pete across all of the pathways um from you know grassroots and underage right up to under 19s, then into wolves and then up into the national team as well. How do you ensure that the pathway can like how have you found this? Because this has been an evolutionary journey, obviously, for Cricket Ireland, but how do you best set up a pathway system to build on itself so that it connects through each of the steps of the pathway? Like what are the what are the key things that are done there at Cricket Ireland to ensure that continuity, I suppose?

SPEAKER_00 21:23

Yeah, again, I think you know, a strength can be you you haven't got a huge amount of support staff. So we we'd all know each other uh pretty well. So I think it's it's ensuring that we're in contact with each other a lot, um, passing on information about players uh that that have maybe gone from one age group to another or onto the senior team or whatever it may be. Um so so those conversations and and reviews of players are are really important. Um you know we we do some talent ID reviews of our of our players as well in terms of putting things then written, but the conversations are are really important and making sure there are regular touch points with with other coaches throughout the system. Um I think it's and it's it goes beyond I suppose uh just the international pathway. You've got to then touch base with the provincial pathway and which is obviously super important in terms of uh you know developing those players uh to get to the stage where we are and then and beyond that again the club club environment as well where the player may be um you know I think those touch points are all really really important to ensure that there's continuity and consistency of of the approach and for again going back to stakeholders them understanding where the player is at and where they need to be um and again that probably goes back to the if you overemphasize winning it may not be for the betterment of the player's development um in in certain uh environments so that it's a it's a really important conversation to support the player so that the player like one of the challenges we have is the players will be in a number of different environments you know club provincial uh and and Irish environments and then you know there may be some other teams that that they're playing for as well so it's yeah it's got to be a joined up approach there's got to be conversations happening and and things have to you don't want the player being put between a rock and a hard place and pulled the wrong direction which may not be the best approach for him developing as an international cricketer sometimes. So it's very important that uh even outside of our pathway system that at provincial and club level that the player the other coaches that are supporting that player are on the same page as as where you want this player to get to um and even in terms of injury prevention I think that's massive as well that they're making the right choices and prioritising the right opportunities and and that's a difficult conversation uh because the club coach may want to win a game but a player may have to rest. So those difficult conversations have to happen I think and support the player and because it's it's hard I think for a young player to stick their neck out and say I'm not doing this until they learn how to have those conversations as as they could get develop and get a bit older.

SPEAKER_01 24:29

Yeah that's brilliant um I think I'm gonna try and quote you verbatim here because I wrote it down and it was like really struck me as you were saying it you said if you want to play your best you have to strive to win and I think that is a brilliant um crystallization around you know like the podcast is obviously called the mastering high performance and I think if you want to play your best you have to strive to win is actually a a core ingredient in terms of in terms of mastering high performance within that um because we often talk about writing the playbook of performance for the listeners for this um podcast what is at the heart what's at the essence of that Pete do you think that should make it onto the pages of a playbook for performance yeah it's it's getting in the battle I think it's getting in the context contest it's taking it head on as we spoke about um it's backing a positive approach um so it's it's it's not going into your shell I think it's it's being on the front foot as as much as possible and accepting um things will probably go right for you more often than not if you are in that space but sometimes they won't um but it's also just accepting that but I think the mindset has always got to be um ambitious and and dreaming big and and uh you know looking looking to achieve things breaking a game down so that it's a process you know you're winning the ball you're winning the moment um but then you're winning the phase of the game um or sometimes you'll be in a in a tough situation and you just have to ride it out and and if you do ride it out and get through it well then things can come in your favor and and rebuild.

SPEAKER_00 26:21

So it's it's all the the understanding of that um with within the game uh and then I suppose trying to replicate those battles as much as possible in those situations in in training as best you can and to always play with that match intensity and and uh focus around how how your training uh reflects on a game situation I guess at times if it's not if it's not a say a phase where you're where you're doing your your basic skills which are so important um if it's a phase getting closer to competition that's obviously really important that you start to uh challenge in that respect and uh get players to to win as I said those small moments and and and phases and and and reflect on that and then ride out tough times and and get through them and uh it's all all good experiences. I think you always as well want to bring it back to the player simplifying things under pressure uh and not going to an option that maybe isn't their best option. So reinforcing that the whole time to sort of back their strengths um is is really important.

SPEAKER_01 27:36

Well that's the whole playbook written there then I love all of that we'll be extracting that out Pete your wisdom um I think we'll that for me that has been so rich and insightful there are so many rabbit holes that were like popping up that I wanted to go down with you um as you were sharing. But you know for now I suppose it's important for us to leave it there. Thank you so much for being a guest on the show today. I think uh we all know a lot more about cricket and cricket Ireland and I would say probably the passionate heart that you have and the strategic mind that has driven a lot of what has happened um over almost the last two decades at Cricket Ireland. So thank you so much for joining us. Thanks for your insights and uh we hope that everybody will enjoy the episode.

SPEAKER_00 28:24

Yeah no thanks a million and and congratulations on the podcast of I've really enjoyed listening to it and you've had some great guests on. So thanks for letting me be part of it and great to chat to you both today.

SPEAKER_02 28:35

Next up we welcome Aidan McCullum to the podcast. Aidan is a renowned keynote speaker, innovation and leadership expert, author and host of the highly successful innovation show podcast. We discussed his high performance journey from his time as a professional rugby player with Leinster and Toulouse to his recent Thinker50 Innovation Award. Until then take care and thanks for listening Meelabuikis Togey Augustan Gofot