The We Attitude Podcast
The We Attitude Podcast is a leadership and mindset podcast focused on the power of “we” over “me.” Hosted by David, each episode explores how shared ownership, trust, and team-first thinking drive stronger cultures, better businesses, and more meaningful lives. Through real conversations, stories from the trenches, and practical insights, The We Attitude Podcast challenges listeners to lead with humility, build together, and win as a team—because the best results are never achieved alone.
The We Attitude Podcast
Unexpected Paths Into Real Estate: The MLB Clubhouse & The Law Firm
Use Left/Right to seek, Home/End to jump to start or end. Hold shift to jump forward or backward.
Success in real estate rarely follows a straight line.
In this episode of the We Attitude Podcast, we sit down with Clayton Cobler and Nathan Pfitzer, two agents whose journeys into the industry couldn’t have been more different.
One started his career working inside the St. Louis Cardinals clubhouse, learning firsthand what elite performers do behind the scenes. The other began in the legal world, navigating law firms and searching for the right career path before discovering real estate.
Despite their different starting points, both built successful businesses by focusing on the same core principles:
• elite service
• coaching and mentorship
• building strong relationships
• hiring the right people
• long-term vision and growth
In this conversation we explore the lessons they learned from sports, law, and business—and how those experiences shaped the way they serve clients and build their teams today.
We also dive into topics like leadership, accountability, building a real estate team, long-term career planning, and the growing impact of AI in the industry.
Whether you're a new agent, an experienced professional, or someone interested in entrepreneurship, this episode offers valuable insights on building a business that lasts.
Chapters
00:00 Introduction
00:08 Welcome to the We Attitude Podcast
00:45 Meet Clayton Culver & Nathan Pfitzer
01:40 Working Inside the Cardinals Clubhouse
03:50 Lessons from Professional Athletes
05:40 Nathan’s Path: From Law Firm to Real Estate
08:30 Early Career Mentorship and Breakthrough Moments
10:45 Discovering Keller Williams and Coaching
14:00 Why Coaching Accelerates Growth
17:55 Accountability and the Value of a Coach
19:45 Building and Leading a Real Estate Team
22:00 Finding and Hiring the Right People
24:40 Vision for the Next Five Years
28:40 Long-Term Goals and What Success Looks Like
32:30 Retirement, Legacy, and Life Beyond Sales
33:40 AI and the Future of Real Estate
38:00 Final Thoughts and Takeaways
Alright, welcome back to the We Uh Attitude Podcast. I got two of my very good friends here, Clayton Cobler. What's up, buddy? What's up? Get you all jacked up. And then Naden Fitzer. Hi Jack. What's up, man? Good? Yeah. All is good. Well, I love that you guys are here. This is something that is relatively new for us. And uh we're we're we're launching this podcast, and that the goal is simple. We're we're finding like successful people like you guys and and just having a conversation for whatever 20, 30 minutes, and and chat about what you guys have learned during your journey and and how we found each other and all this stuff. So you guys have been with us for quite a bit now.
SPEAKER_022016 for me 2016, yeah, both of us.
SPEAKER_00So we'll come in on your 10th 10-year anniversary. Yeah, uh, actually. That's awesome. January. Yeah, too. Yeah, we came in fresh. Yeah, yeah. I remember it because we yeah, you were uh you were a little bit of a longer process. You came in uh right in the fall, Thanksgiving, maybe, right? Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_02It's my first meetings. Yeah, our first meeting was at Bar Louis. Uh well our first meeting, like first office meeting was like right before the beginning of the year.
SPEAKER_00Oh, okay. Yeah. Okay, I was referring to you and I's first meeting. Yeah, Bar Louis. Bar Louis, yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. So so anyway, so so you guys have been with us for a long time. Uh you've been in real estate. Well, we've both been in real estate for how long now?
SPEAKER_0215 years, starting in 10.
SPEAKER_00And that was 07. Okay. Part time were. So you got a taste of the uh the the mortgage crisis.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, I mean, yes, but I didn't do it full time. Right. You know, so um I remember thinking though, if you can get through this, you can get through anything. If I'm going to stay in the business. Yeah. You know, and that was a big if back then. Yeah. But here we are. You had a cool gig back then. I had a great gig. Do you want to share your gig? Sure. Um, so I was uh a bat my claim to fame as being a back boy for the Cardinals. Yeah. Started in 1998. Um graduated in college in 05, opportunities opened up to it's a great summer gig. Yeah, well, yeah, yeah. I mean it's one hours. It's it's awesome. Yeah, it was I would do it again if I could. I'm 43. So yeah, no, the uh the clubhouse attendance uh positions opened up in after the 04 World Series. I moved into uh uh to the clubhouse to assist the equip manager, and then um graduated in 05, not really knowing what I wanted to do outside of college. Um and then uh my brother actually said maybe you should get into real estate. You've heard guys, players complain about their agents, they already know you, love you, trust you, may as well give it a shot. Like, okay. So that was it. So got licensed in 07, and um I think I only did, I don't even know, um maybe three transactions in the first six months, and those were shared because I had a partner back then that was kind of forced upon me. Gotcha. Uh and then I had um uh we let that situation go pretty quick, and then I did then I did land my first uh Cardinal client uh in 2009. Yeah. So and then yeah.
SPEAKER_00That's a cool thing. And uh you you uh uh I'm trying to remember historically speaking, would you were there a couple of World Series?
SPEAKER_01Yeah, so I'd like to think it's probably the best tenure of all franchises. Yeah, because 98 was McGuire. Yeah, 2000 uh was the first playoff run that we had, and then World Series 04, World Series Winner 06, World Series Winner 11, in between that was their all-star game in 09, and then World Series runner up in 13. Yeah, things have changed quite a bit. And the tools. There's the pools here, those are the greatest.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, those are incredible. Yeah, not quite the same vibe down there anymore. But no, maybe you should go back. Maybe you're the problem. Maybe you're maybe you're the missing link. So I'm just curious, like uh like being around like professional athletes for 10 years like this, I'm sure you've noticed things like behaviorally speaking from a habit perspective that that would explain, I guess, or justify the the success or or or what you've experienced with them. What are some were there common trades that you kind of noticed like looking back or thinking about it that that you're like, all right, well, there's a reason why this run occurred, and there's a reason why successful people do certain things, I guess.
SPEAKER_01You know, I I um that job, being a clubhouse assistant, bat boy, whatever, um may not sound like it, but there's a lot of attention to detail, uh, a lot of putting the athletes on pedestals and making them look as good as possible, uh, and also really doing whatever you're asked to do. So I think that fabric kind of helped with uh knowing that the level of service that needs to be attributed to the athlete is a little bit different because they uh their their time is a lot more scarce, especially baseball players where they're in town for a week, they're gone for a week. That's that's the average, right? Yeah. Uh and then whenever you usually look at homes, they're not available. They could the default park by noon, and then you don't get home until you know 10 p.m. So we always tell our clients that uh to this day, don't be uh don't think that you're a small fish in our business because you're not, because the same level of service that we give our our athlete clients is what we give our non-athlete clients. Right. Um so there is there is a a much greater sense, at least in my opinion, of uh hand holding and taking on the onus of um pretty much almost all facets of the transaction.
SPEAKER_00Yeah.
SPEAKER_01And being available after the fact.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. I know some of the guys you've helped, like if you can serve these guys and and and get repeat business, I mean you can serve pretty much anybody, I guess, right? Yeah, no, for sure. Yeah. 100%. Yeah. So all right. So Clayton, uh, I I I know you didn't start in real estate too, so before real estate, what like what was uh what what was your first uh stop before real estate?
SPEAKER_02First stop before real estate was uh there was a time of tears where I was terrified that I didn't knew what I was gonna do. Yeah. I graduated Mizzou and when I left I was aspiring to be an attorney. And I had interned at several law firms to find out that my scores on my LSAT coupled with my GPA were not gonna get me to where I wanted to be, which was either SLU or Washu. I had to go out of state. So at the time my girlfriend now wife Emily was like, Well, I'm not going out of state, I'm staying here. So my options were very limited and absolute because I wasn't going anywhere.
SPEAKER_00Yeah.
SPEAKER_02So I went to the manager and I said at the law firm, all my other all the other interns went off to law school, and I'm like, what am I gonna do? I'm gonna get a job. So I got a job. They gave me a job, I thought it was amazing. They said, I'm gonna pay you $30,000 a year. You get health insurance at 401k. Cool, sign me out. Let's do it. So I I I took the job and then I found all my friends that had careers or engineers or lawyers or whatever they were doing, they had a path, and I I really didn't have a path, but I I had this new role that I kind of had to figure out and figure out. I really had to figure out my life. So um a few years had passed, and my buddy Rob um Bessamina I wedded, he had said, Have you ever considered real estate? Well, no, I've never considered real estate, I didn't consider myself a salesperson. Right. And so I I never did ever. No, I mean I still really don't. I just consider myself a solid builder, yeah. Exactly. And so I interviewed five brokerages. I went to the traditional Prudential, the the rematches, the Cobalt Bankers, the Century 22. Finally landed at Prudential that then became Berkshire and uh had great mentors, incredible mentors that really led me down the right path. And I remember my broker, his name is Jim, who's now retired, and he said, I can see when people are gonna make it in this industry, and those it can't. You usually get a good perception. Yeah. Because you're gonna make it. And that's always stuck with me. And so every year I always call him around Christmas time and said, Thank you for putting that seat in me. That's great. That was that was a moment, that was like one of those moments that you will never forget. Yeah. And uh his name is Jim Dialas. And um, so anyway, then I then fast forward 2015. I put in my notice, I saved up $20,000. I put on my notice at the firm and I left. And um I have I maintained a ton of amazing relationships there with staff, with attorneys, with management, and uh still have those relationships to this day. Uh, and I've built a big business because of those relationships. I was there for eight years. So I left in 2015, 2016. I met you. Yeah. And the Bar Louis thing. Oh, we had hung out at Bar Louis, and had to convince me and then convince Emily, which is the harder nut to crack. And uh I ended up at Keller Williams. Yeah. Um and I remember some of my first meetings being encouraged to build my business bigger, because it was a solo agent just slinging houses. I wasn't building a business. Yeah. And he said, You should you should bolt on a company to help you with the paperwork. Yeah. You know what I'm talking about. Yeah. I was like, I'm not paying somebody to do my paperwork. Yeah, this is ridiculous. So then I did that, and then and then I added an assistant, and then I added buyers' agents, and then just started building and realizing that if I want to build this bigger, embrace the dream that I want of building a big life, I have to add people to the I have to add people in the business. Yeah. And uh I've five years ago, I wrote a bold letter. And I usually just get them and it's like, ah, okay, I'm I'm not I'm not even gonna take this seriously. I I opened the letter when we moved. It was actually when we moved. Yeah, we just moved five months ago, and I opened the letter, and everything in that letter was exactly what I have today. Nice. That's awesome. That letter, and so I remember Gary Keller, my first family reunion said um agents underestimate, overestimate what they can do in a year and underestimate what they can do at five. So that's right. And it was a five years like to the day.
SPEAKER_00Your five years, I think that he says in a way it's like your your five years from whatever telebike. Right, right. Like it's like a kind of a five-year cycle, I guess.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, so so the journey, everything about it, and the thing was I was at the law firm. I was in the commercial real estate department. Yeah, I learned so much about that side, and I also learned to your to kind of your um piece with the baseball is the the level of service that those attorneys needed was really high. Yeah. So I had to meet that. So now I knew what bar to set for all my clients. Yeah. And to your point, whether um it regardless of price point, they're gonna get similar. Yes, yeah.
SPEAKER_01It's in our listening uh agreement contract, uh, the the service piece. You'll get the same service as our athletes get. Nice. So don't feel like you're a small fish.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. That's awesome. So early on, right, like you guys have come from from I think I think where you came from was probably a little bit more similar to what we have here to an extent. Like, I mean, I know the the family that owned it was very much a um, I would consider them very much uh learning based also and things like that. I think you come from more of more of a traditional world. Back then it was definitely uh more of a traditional environment. So so when you came in, like we what was your like what was your take on on what you were walking into? And uh there's a lot more freedom, I feel like, comparatively to for sure, comparatively to the traditional world. So what what was your what was your first take on on what you said yesterday? Keller Williams.
SPEAKER_02First take. First take was uh it's a very non non-traditional approach, right? So it scared me. Yeah. Because it's like everything here that I'm about to do is nothing like I've ever done before in state. Right. And I hadn't had a big experience, but enough to where I'm like, I know what I like and what I don't like. Right. Right. So it made me uncomfortable. Yeah, I remember that. Made me uncomfortable. I'm like, holy shit, he wants me to do what? Yeah. And then then the coach who was introduced, which I've never had a coach, I've had mentors, but not a coach. Yeah. So I I yeah, I was I was scared at first.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, I I remember that. That's uh that's the biggest thing too. Uh I thought about this actually listening to one of uh Jason Davis' podcasts the other day. Um so this is my fourth stop, my fourth brokerage stop. Yeah. And they they've all three been small, you know. Um, and uh the first two were uh very forgettable, you know. Uh and then uh the the one leading up to KW, more of a family kind of yeah, coming from um uh learning, like you said, or yeah. Um but it was very mentor-like, not coaching like, yeah. And uh you don't really know what what you're missing until you actually get it. Yeah. Um and uh they had you know a low split uh compared to the industry compared to KW back in the day. Yeah, that was a big hang up for me because at the time I was still employed by the Cardinals. Yeah, so I knew I was I was still at best uh gonna work 60% of the year full time. You know, right? Uh so it was hard to give up an extra twelve thousand dollars at the time to do it. Yeah. Um and you know, I I I wouldn't take anything back necessarily, but I would say that um I probably would have segued out of baseball quicker had I joined you guys when you when we first met, which was 2014, I think. Yeah, we did a while. We did. I did the first time. Well, so it was I met Angela and David at the old office. Yeah, I bet I remember telling you guys this was right when I I guess left baseball 2013 or so. Yeah. That uh the timing is not right yet. Yeah, but still on me at some point I will. Yeah. No, I guess it was really it's probably 2010. Because I I stayed with executives for the last four years of my of my cardinal. It sounds netting left baseball. And then I came I realized that at the time I needed a more full-time hands-on coaching environment, yeah, and um trust uh trust what you put forth as far as you know, hey, you'll get all this back, just follow the model.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. And yeah. So let's talk about coaching and mentoring. Like what does that mean to you? Like when you when you say, hey, uh, when you say Clayton, like, hey, I'm gonna I'm gonna get a coach, right? Like what got you first to say yes, and then and then what are you looking into for a coach? Like what what was what was your expectation? Because I feel like the especially from a business perspective, the coaching um relationship is a two-way relationship for sure, right? It's not like sports where you the coach picks you there, right? You don't get to really pick the coach, but in our world you get to pick the coach to an extent. So so what what was your what were you looking for when you said, all right, I'm gonna say yes to that, then let's let's go see what it looks like and what it does for me. Um it so the win was in bold.
SPEAKER_02Okay, same here. And I got some a lot of pressure to sign up to get a a coach through maps. Yeah. So I didn't just make an immediate, let's go do it. I had to think about it. So we took our break. I made a decision that day, but I had to think about why I am getting a coach. And I had a seat, I had a ceiling in my business that I could go no further without someone about somebody saying, here's the path to get there. Yeah. And it scared me because I know what I wanted to build, but I didn't know how to build it. Right. You know, and so I said, I'll sign up. So I got my first mastery coach. Um, was it it was expensive. Sure. And I'm like, well, why am what am I gonna get out of this? Well, we I had been through several coaches because I wanted to find somebody that I felt met my personality, met my standards, met what I was wanting to achieve. Um, I had been through several coaches, and since my the inception of my first coach, it's just been up.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. Now I want to I want to ask you a question because you were you were pressured. And and do you feel like you were like, hey, you have to do this? No. Or do you feel like it was more like like emotionally where you were, like, all right, I know I need to do this, but I'm scared of shit to do.
SPEAKER_02Internally pressure. Yeah. I felt I need this, it I felt like it dropped from the ceiling at the right time. Like, here it is, and it's like, oh shit, now it's here. Yeah, now I gotta pick this up. Right. And it was heavy financially and the commitment, and yeah, I didn't know what was behind that door. Yeah. What are they gonna tell me to do? Right. Got it. Uh it was an opportunity, and you never know what's behind that door had I not done it, but I would like to think that had I not taken that, I wouldn't be where I'm at today. Oh, for sure. I wholeheartedly. That was the job.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. So so what about you? Like when did you find coaching and and what what were you looking for when you did it? Uh probably the same gold device probably.
SPEAKER_01Um I don't know. Uh I'm trying to think. So for me, it was um here again, like knowing not knowing what I don't have. Yeah, so uh I knew it was kind of needed uh at some point because like you know, we all run our businesses here. Um you know, talking with you, talking with nations is always there. Yeah, you know, but having the um the more national vibe, uh coach as well, who is dialed into um the things that are working around the nation because here in the Midwest, you know, we're slow to adapt on stuff. Um fly over country. Yeah, for sure. And um, it's nice to to have that that you know that the eyes and ears kind of around the nation uh helping you out. So yeah, I mean I'm I've I'm still with maps um on my third coach, but I've been with uh with Jeff now for I guess probably four years. Yeah, fantastic coach. You guys have the same coach?
SPEAKER_02Yes.
SPEAKER_01Oh, that's awesome. I don't know.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, that's awesome. Yeah. I'm with I'm with uh different coaching staff now. It's yeah, but Jeff was one of the best.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. So so speaking of coaching and all this stuff, like what what are some of the um uh I'm sure at any given time there's a point where you're like, all right, I'm done with coaching. I know what I'm doing, I don't need this anymore. Like, so what what is that conversation looks like? Like what what makes you stick to it versus versus saying, hey, this is too expensive, I'm not getting it, or whatever.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, no, for me it's um it it's accountability. Yeah, you know, being a uh a Rainmaker as I call us, I mean we're yeah you know, unless you are um dialed into a uh a niche group that or an accountability group, um, then you don't really have that. Yeah, yeah. And again, and you gotta want to seek it too. I just don't have the time, energy, or or want to seek that. So uh for me it's it's accountability, um, and also uh you know, look looking for for direction. Yeah, you know. Uh I know you guys are always here, but you know, um you're all you're here for everybody though, too. Uh there feels like there's more of a one-on-one connection that uh you can jump right back into. Sure. Yeah.
SPEAKER_02I think um I get my highs and my lows. There are days that I don't I say I don't want to do real estate anymore. Yeah. And I get to meet with my coach and unpack that and figure out what is truly going on. Yeah. So it's there's there's a little bit of an emotional coaching going on too.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_02Um, which has been helpful. You've helped me through quite a few. And uh learned a I've learned a lot about myself through coaching because they're um they're they're in fact a mirror for you. And so when I know that I've exhausted the coaching, sometimes it's just I feel like I've hit a level in which they can't supply me any more value.
SPEAKER_00Yeah.
SPEAKER_02Um, so then I find the next coach that that does something different than me, and I'm like, okay, I can bolt onto this person and they can supply me a ton of value. Yeah. And who I have now is leaps and bounds ahead of me. So I have a huge ceiling to chase. Yeah.
SPEAKER_00What's uh you guys both have hired people over the years, added people to your teams, uh, just a natural cycle of business. Sometimes people don't pan out, they leave, whatever. Um, what's been the biggest um lesson? What's the biggest thing you'll learn from dealing with people inside your business? So not as clients, but hey, we're we're we're we're both on the same side of the fence here, so let's let's let's work together. Like, what are some of the things that you've learned by leading others?
SPEAKER_02First of all, follow the process of hiring the person. Okay, don't don't skip steps. Follow the process, it works. Yeah. Um and leading them is is different than managing them. Leading them is setting the path, setting the why behind what you're doing so they can understand that. They're not just coming into an office to type on a computer. They have a bigger, they have a bigger contribution to your why. Yeah. And if they can follow through with that, that people like to see the end result. So I think me, I originally hired so that I could have a body in a room to do the administration. And now I have people in the room that we can work on this together. It's a we, not a not a me and this person, it's we. Yeah. And that's been monumental. Yeah.
SPEAKER_01Love it. Yeah. I mean, that we're running lean right now. Um the biggest takeaway that I that I uh our biggest lesson I've learned is um you gotta be more in that CEO role to get the most out of your people, uh, and also um be able to create new paths for them. You know, um opportunity. Yeah, yeah. I mean, and and and I I've failed at that a couple of times, uh, not realizing um what what that person really wants, you know. And um, yeah, and and now I know. So when that right person comes back, then uh really be uh specific on you know, creating one avenue. Well, once we narrow that avenue down, rather than just keep on throwing stuff at them over and over and over, uh that's that will lead to burnout. Yeah, yeah, and it has for sure. For both of you. Yeah.
SPEAKER_00Right? Yeah, yeah. So what what's the uh so so like how how do you how do you find the right person? Like how do you how do you guys have identified you guys had some talented people. People with you. So what how do you find that? How do you uh where do you look? How how do you attract them? Um how did you go about that?
SPEAKER_02So a whole variety of ways. A lot of some of our uh hires have been through our sphere of influence, hiring fairs that we've hosted here. Yeah. Um also Indeed has been an my remarketing director of five years I found on Indeed. Never thought it would have paid out, and she's been the most amazing contribution to my organization. Amazing. Yeah. So I I think I've cast a big net.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. Okay. What makes her the biggest contribution to your organization?
SPEAKER_02Um she she's the one person that I can I can trust anything with. She's Emily. Actually, let's ask Emily. Well, Emily Emily has worked. Emily has worked for you, but uh I would try to trust this person with my life. Yeah. She's been in my QuickBooks, she's been in every facet of my business. And my business, when I took a hit several years ago, um, she stepped up as my instead of marketing director, she did everything. She stepped in and just did it for the same pay until we found the replacement for a year. Wow. Um just very committed to the overall purpose of this organization. Wow. That is just couldn't say enough good things. That's awesome. Yeah. That's awesome. What have you experienced?
SPEAKER_01Referral. Um referral's been a good opportunity. Uh I've had I have had success with Indeed. I've had I had to make two uh hires through Indeed. Yeah. Uh so it has worked for sure. Um, you know, I think that the biggest thing though, like right now, I said we're running lean. We have a VA and my wife's on my team is a license agent uh helping with more behind the scenes stuff and a transaction manager. So um I'm not uh I I'm not at a point where we're gonna stay here for sure. Yeah, but it is good getting back into uh both sides of the selling process to really figure out uh what needs to be tidied up, yeah, uh, and then really what you're looking for. And I honestly, I don't really know yet what I'm looking for. I you know, like the showing specialist thing's working right now, yeah. And I'm I don't feel overwhelmed. Um what I'm realizing a need for really is uh the social media, marketing, editing, um, and uh just the overall uh marketing aspect of it. You know, so um when when we do get back into it, I'm gonna go to definitely back to indeed for sure. Yeah. Um but uh and also be seeking that through referrals. Yeah. And referrals being the market center as well.
SPEAKER_00Sure. I I it's funny, I hear you guys like what what's so what's three years from now? Like what what what's your team look like? What's your organization look like? Do you do you have plans and what intention do you want to keep growing? Are you good where you are? Like what what does that look like?
SPEAKER_02So I I can't speak for three, I can speak for five because we just talked about it yesterday. Oh, do five okay. We'll do five. All right, cool. I'll still be here.
SPEAKER_01No, I'm gonna do three, damn it.
SPEAKER_02Five years, I'll be out of production. Okay. And I'll have a sales team of two to three agents total to be listing them buyers. Okay. Uh one of those people may be a showing assistant to the other agents. Okay. Um I'll have a contract to clothes manager, um, an assistant, and then a marketing director. Okay. Um at this time in my life, that's as big as I want to take it. And that'll give me about 115, 120 units, which would be which would like where I want to be.
SPEAKER_00That's awesome. Yeah. Now, why why what's the uh what's the why behind wanting to be out of production?
SPEAKER_02I want to I want to be able to um uh leverage this business to where I can step back, still own it, and still manage it, but not have my sales head on so that I can go out and then work with my the investments. I get very excited about investments. Okay, the rehabs, the buy and holds. I'm very excited about that. But because my time is so spent on the sales side, yeah, I don't have the capacity to scale this yet. Gotcha. This is very onesie twosy, and I want to go up with that. I got it. So I need to scale this so that I can go over here. Yeah, for more more often. Yeah. So what what do we want to scale that to? Do you know or I don't know what that looks like yet. Okay. I know for next year I want to do six rehabs and own four rentals. Gotcha. That would be my goal. But I scale like five years, I don't know.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. And is it is it designed for retail to fund that, or is this or do are they run separately?
SPEAKER_02So retail has already been funding this, so this is now moving. Okay. And so now this they're operating independently. Okay. So that that that piece you just said has already happened. Gotcha. Cool. Good for you. What you can pick three or five.
SPEAKER_00I'm gonna say ten bucks.
SPEAKER_01I uh I start by uh looking at people. Cardinals could use you, man. They probably could use me. Oh my god, the way it's old for that are um you know, and uh in five years I'll have a fourth grader and also a kid in college. So um I don't intend on being out of the business. I I do enjoy uh I do enjoy selling. I really do. I I I uh I really do love it all. I do I I prefer um listing and selling for sure. Uh that's you know, those who list last, right? So uh I will still be in the business for sure. I would like to in a fourth grader, you won't have a choice.
SPEAKER_00I have a shitty private education. Unless you win the Powerball tonight, but otherwise, yeah. Even then though.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, you know. Um yeah, so um the vision that I have more in the future is gonna be more of a husband-wife, uh, hopefully powerhouse. Yeah. Because Shannon brings my wife, Shannon brings uh a certain element to the table uh that I have not found yet in people that I've interviewed over the years. Yeah. And that is uh an independent, strong-natured woman who has been in management, uh, who has worked in in the corporate world, um, who has uh been VPs of banks and stuff. So um she's licensed right now. I don't know that that's her role long term, but uh she's gonna be at this, especially when our son is is uh full-time in school. Yeah. Uh and um you know there's a little bit less obligation or uh requirement to get the older kids to and from. Sure. Because by then they'll be driving. Yeah. That's right. You know, so uh we only three rincils. I do want to grow that. The original plan five years ago was to own three rincils, one per kid. Um, and then have that kind of be a legacy, but why start by stop at three if the opportunity's there? So um yeah. So I do I I in five years, I want to see uh the three be tripled. I think we can easily do that in five years. I don't know why not.
SPEAKER_00How about it? So so let's go then further out, ten years this round number. So if you're looking back at this, what are things that you would say, right? A lot of times people I feel like reflect in a uh regretful way, right? Meaning like I wish I would have done this, wish I would have done that. What if we do it the opposite and you say, I can't believe I fucking killed this? Like, what does that look like? What are you looking at? What what do you say, like I can't believe we've accomplished this? I can't believe we've done it. I always ask this in an interview.
SPEAKER_02I've never been asked.
SPEAKER_01Uh yeah, I mean I like I for one, um I already kind of get that uh that sense of accomplishment is because we're able to have my wife quit her full-time job, give up her killer insurance just for us to go on the market and pay a ridiculous amount for a family of five, um, and still be able to take the trips and the travels and the private education, the things that we want to do. Um so I already have that sense. Now we can we can continue to grow that um to provide even more opportunity uh for our children and also early retirement. So that's what we're talking about with our financial advisor, and you know, how do we how do we get there um to where we can retire at uh a younger age and um not really is retiring means you're not working anymore? Um was that what how do you define retirement? I think retirement to me would be to to be out of sales completely and be collecting um yeah residual royalty, you know, whatever, yeah, on the sale of of on a team or have a kid fall in line with taking over uh team. I mean why not? Great legacy. Yeah, so that's what it looks like.
SPEAKER_00I don't know, like I'll be 50 next month. I don't know what retirement looks like. Like I don't I don't know what I would do. Like I feel like not uh traveling doesn't really and luckily neither of us feel that way. So we're we're not planning on on uh and there's no right or wrong. I just it's bizarre, like because for a while you plan it, you think about it. Not that I'm anywhere close, I mean maybe about from an age perspective, but but I just I don't I wouldn't know what to do.
SPEAKER_01Like I don't it's kind of uh it's an interesting uh I think I mean the dynamics different though, because we have a again, we have a five-year-old. Right. I mean, also um you know I'm totally different spot. Right. It's so much harder when he gets to the point of having college age kids.
SPEAKER_00Um but that's my point, right? Like arguably, like mine are gonna be out of college soon, yeah, like paid, done, whatever. Fast. Then you're like, all right, like, all right, well, maybe that's the next stage's retirement. I don't I'm not what the hell am I gonna do?
SPEAKER_02Like, I've I've never so my grandpa, he just turned 101 December 12th, December 9th. And um he was always an entrepreneur. He was always doing something, and he built a very um great life based on his businesses. Yes. And um he never really truly retired. Yeah, he was always doing something, yeah, not necessarily for the income, but I think you can define retirement as you choose to do something, but you don't have to. Fair enough. Yeah, I'll buy it. I think that's kind of where I'm at. Versus traditionally, yeah, I retire at 62, I collect my pension, my four, whatever it is, and you don't ever have to work again, you just watch TV all the time, or whatever, whatever that is. Sure. Um I don't know what to look out 10 years and look back and go, that was awesome. I don't, I've never, I have not taken the time to reflect on that. Yeah. But I do know that I think I always want, I want to find a way to I'm still looking for a way to build something bigger than myself to give back to a world that's been so awesome for me. Yeah. I don't know how to do that. My coach challenged me with that. Like, you know, do you open open a food bank in third world countries where kids are starving, you know, something big, and that's just that's not my passion. I don't know where that's at yet. Yeah. But that in 10 years, I want to look back and say, I contributed in a really big way, and I gotta figure out what that is. Gotcha. That would be but I just don't have clarity on that.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. I love it. I I think the other caveats about is um we don't know what the what the future beholds, right? So I all I know is I don't want to be um subject to having to work uh whatever it is, 30, 40, 50 hours a week. Sure. Um so you know, uh my mom has Alzheimer's and had it for 11 years. We just lost my mother-in-law last year, early 70s. Like you know, yeah, I'm right. I'm you know 20 years away from what my mom got diagnosed with Alzheimer's. So um yeah, I want to make sure we uh take that into consideration. You're right, yeah. Make sure we're doing the things that uh that we have achieved or do the things that we want to do through what we achieved.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah, for sure. Fodder time is undefeated. You know what I mean? There's no ifs and buts about it. So so you're right. Like at some point, the you guys are hard workers, you've done it for a long time. At some point you gotta you gotta enjoy it too and you do and figure something out, right? You do, yeah.
SPEAKER_02You gotta beat it. You gotta be that you gotta be in that moment, you gotta be present. For sure. Yeah, for sure.
SPEAKER_00All right. What's uh I think it was you, uh I can't remember, like one of you we were talking about AI earlier. What's what's your take on AI and and the future of our industry?
SPEAKER_02That one made up. I like speaking extremely candidly, I think that there's there's a lot of benefits to AI, but I think it's it's also an opportunity for the general general populace to get stupider. Yeah. I do. I think that we're you're losing our using our brains less and using the technology more to move us forward, but I think there's gonna become a point where it's like we've got to use these brains. With that said, I use it. Yeah. And I use it to solve problems that I myself can't think through. Yeah. So I think it's a great tool within within reason.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. I use it. Yeah. And it's I mean, you I think if you don't learn it right now, like then you think you're gonna be left behind by it. Like it just there's no, it's not a trend. It's not going away. Oh, exactly.
SPEAKER_02It's only gonna get smarter and faster. That's right. That's right. And it concerns me because I don't know what's behind at 10 years from now, what it's capable of doing. Yeah. What is it gonna do? Well, I can't control it. What it's not capable of doing probably is probably the better question.
SPEAKER_00Sure.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, I mean you gotta embrace it. Yeah, you have to you have to use it to a degree. Those who say they don't use it are lying because every Google search now, the very first prompt is is AI. So uh yeah, we use it as well. Um actually I I really should be using it more, to be honest with you. But um, you know, I use it personally as um as an uh opportunity to save time. Yeah. You know? Um that being said, you can sell right away when a listing agent puts in uh an AI generated uh marketing remarks. Pick that apart so fast. Yeah so like use that, but then but just use it to to uh prevent uh uh brain fog whenever you're writing. Sure, yeah. Just get ideas, then it's it's you know, right.
SPEAKER_00Yes, great context around it.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. I mean it it so no different than like being in college and writing a paper and then you go to the Vesaris to find out it didn't work. Like you go to yeah, you know, you know, so um yeah, but to your point though, uh it's a little bit spooky. Yeah, my wife Shane was talking to what we thought was a live person the other day at uh direct TV, and I'm like, that that he was so good.
SPEAKER_02AI?
SPEAKER_01Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_00I had no idea. Yeah, yeah. Um it's it's there's a lot of it in our industry. I see like uh a lot of a lot of teams will have uh what we used to have as ISA now are are just it's all done through AI. Like they they just call and you know they don't get tired, they don't need a break, they they don't I mean it's it's it's a very interesting thing and it's just a reality that we have to make adjustments for. And so yeah, embrace it or not, I mean it's here.
SPEAKER_01Sorry. The biggest thing though, too, is that this business is so relationally driven. Yeah. And yeah, I don't think it's gonna change either. Yeah. Um yeah, my my coach seems to think that it's um uh it's it's overamped right now. Like uh it's not gonna take over nearly as much as you think it would be at least not in our role. Yeah, because you still have to go tour homes. You still have to build a rapport. You still have to set yourself aside from the other agent who is uh a little bit more vanilla, a little bit less.
SPEAKER_00Right. And I'll say uh especially here in the Midwest, I think I think AI is also gonna be geographically driven. Yeah, right. I think there's there's um I think relationship matters all the time anywhere, but they're also perceived differently in different places, right? So um so but but the the biggest thing is I just I don't think I would slightly disagree with your coaching. I don't think you can minimize it. Like I don't think I don't think it's overhyped. I don't think it's definitely not going anywhere, and I don't think it benefits anybody to fall behind the eight ball on it. I think you're I think the more we know, yeah, regardless of your usage, but the more we know about it, the better you are in the long term.
SPEAKER_01I should qualify that the overhyping meeting, uh the sky's falling, it's gonna take over our business fat sphere.
SPEAKER_00The fat feeling, yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay, fair enough.
SPEAKER_02I think the one thing it can't do is the relationships for sure at all. Yeah. Zero. It never can. Yeah. Um it it doesn't have the eyeballs to see the inside of a home that we can see and to figure out a solution for whatever is in front of us. There's certain things it just can't do, and you'll never take that away.
SPEAKER_01And I can't look somebody in the eye and and and be able to tell something's not quite right with this decision. Yes. You know, you can ask the prompting questions, but that it's just a robot at that point. You can't look into the eye and see the glisten and be like, oh, uh oh, okay. You need to pivot a little bit. You need to figure out what the primary driver is here, you know. Um, and uh that's what the conversation does.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, yeah. You guys are rock stars. We're lucky to have you. I'm grateful for your time. Uh I know you guys are busy, and uh I I really appreciate hanging out with you and just this is fun. Sharing your story, everybody. You guys are rock stars, fun. Thanks, Possess. Thank you, appreciate it.