Phillip Patrick: Debt, De-dollarization, and Why Retirement Savers are Turning to Gold

Download Birch Gold's Free Gold & Silver Guide:  https://incomeinsider.org/birch-guide

In this episode of IncomeInsider TV, host Sam Laliberte speaks with Phillip Patrick of Birch Gold Group about the major forces reshaping the financial system, including inflation, national debt, de-dollarization, central bank gold buying, and the long-term purchasing power of the U.S. dollar.

Phillip explains why gold is not just about price charts or market headlines. In his view, gold reflects something much bigger: trust in money, confidence in the financial system, and whether retirement savings will maintain their purchasing power over time.

The conversation covers why cash may feel safe but can lose value in real terms, how the nearly $40 trillion national debt could impact retirement savers, why foreign central banks are reducing dollar exposure, and why physical precious metals are often viewed as a diversification tool during periods of monetary uncertainty.

Phillip also shares his thoughts on how gold can fit into a retirement strategy, what to look for in a reputable precious metals dealer, and why education should come before making any financial decision.

Topics discussed include:

* Why gold is tied to purchasing power and trust
* How inflation affects retirement savers
* The role of cash in today’s economy
* The U.S. national debt and deficit problem
* What de-dollarization really means
* Why central banks are buying gold
* How physical gold may fit into a diversified retirement account
* Warning signs to watch for when choosing a precious metals company
* Why education matters before moving money into precious metals

Download Birch Gold's Free Gold & Silver Guide:  https://incomeinsider.org/birch-guide

For key takeaways from Phillip Patrick's interview visit: https://incomeinsider.org/phillip-patrick-gold-debt-dedollarization/

Learn more about Birch Gold Group: https://incomeinsider.org/birch-gold-group-review/

For full show notes and resources, visit https://incomeinsider.org/incomeinsider-tv/

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Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:05

Welcome to Income Insider TV, where we bring on experts, founders, and thought leaders to break down the trends that are shaping your money and your financial future. I'm your host, Sam La Liberty, and today our guest is Philip Patrick, a precious metals specialist at Birch Gold Group, one of the most recognized names in physical precious metals for retirement savers in the United States. Now, Philip has spent years studying the intersection of monetary policy, currency devaluation, and long-term wealth preservation. He doesn't just talk about gold as an investment, he talks about it as a response to something so much bigger. The way debt, deficits, and the eroding trust in the global financial system, how these are all quietly reshaping what your savings are actually worth. And so what makes Phillips' perspective stand out is that he takes these very complex macro topics, things like de-dollarization, reserve currency status, central bank behavior, and he connects them to very practical questions like what should somebody who is actually saving for retirement do about all of this? And that's what we are going to dig into today. Before we get started, as always, quick disclaimer: nothing in this conversation is official financial tax or legal advice. Everyone's situation is going to be different. So if you are considering making changes to your retirement savings or your investment strategy, please call a qualified financial professional first. With that said, Philip, welcome to the show.

SPEAKER_01 1:51

Thank you so much for having me, Sam.

SPEAKER_00 1:54

Yeah, we are really looking forward to learning from you. Let's start big picture. Let's really zoom out and level set with the fact that when people hear gold, they often think price charts and headlines and big media news. But you actually connect gold to much larger, larger issues, things like global trust. So, how can we set the playing field here for retirement savers? What do they most need to understand about the financial system right now?

SPEAKER_01 2:25

Uh first of all, it's a great question. So I think the biggest thing that people miss is that gold is not really necessarily a story about gold first and foremost. As you sort of touched on, this is a story about money, trust, and ultimately purchasing power. Most financial coverage, it trains people to think in terms of price charts, right? Is gold up this week? Did the Fed say something that scared investors? Did the economy grow well this quarter? But it's not how American families really live the economy, right? We live it through grocery bills and insurance renewals, the pharmacy counter, the utility bill. So and the big question, ultimately the biggest for a time, is whether savings built over decades will still be able to buy what we expected as we were saving. And I think the first overlook point there is really simple. The dollar's not some fixed measuring stick, right? We talk about dollars as if they're inches or pounds. But the dollar is really, when you look at it, a claim on purchasing power. And that purchasing power can change dramatically over time. Since 2020, right, since the COVID pandemic, official inflation data shows us that the US dollar's lost about a quarter of its purchasing power. And American families, we know that. And many of our lived experiences feel worse than that because things like food, insurance, medical costs, housing, the essentials have riven really sharply. And that's how we feel things like currency devaluation at home. So we call it inflation, but what it really is is that the money in our savings accounts are just doing less work for us. The second overlooked point, I think, is in relation to something we've said already a couple of times, and that's trust, right? A global trust problem. That the dollar itself is the global reserve currency. It's the world's dominant currency. It's central to everything that we do trade, commodities, energy, and finance. But the rest of the world at the moment is starting to feel what American savers are feeling, right? And they're seeing massive debt, recurring deficits, a government increasingly dependent on borrowing and central bank management. And what it's doing is it's it's pushing foreign holders of dollars and treasuries to re-evaluate their position. And I think that's why trust is so important, right? Because the dollar depends on trust. Treasury bonds depend on trust. Gold is different to that because it just doesn't. This is something that isn't someone else's liability. It's not a promise to Congress, the Fed, or a bank. This is a tangible asset with a long history of preserving value when paper systems are under trade. So under strain, sorry. So what I would say is gold is not a commodity like others. In many ways, it acts as a mirror for retirement savers. It shows them what's happening to the system, to government credibility and to ultimately confidence. So what it doesn't do, if we want to talk about gold, it doesn't solve every problem. But what it does is it addresses one very specific problem. And that is the risk that paper promises lose purchasing power over time much faster than people expected. And I think in this climate, we're starting to see a lot of that.

SPEAKER_00 5:48

Okay. So if someone heard that and said, gold is telling me a story, it's mirroring what's actually happening. What's actually happening? What is the story that we should know about in terms of how gold has been been impacted and like what is the relationship with that? If it's not the same as inflation and purchasing power, what is moving the needle with gold?

SPEAKER_01 6:16

Look, gold is is a reflection of the value of currency. What a lot of people don't understand is gold's buying power never changes, right? In biblical times, we can look back to religious scriptures. An ounce of gold back then would buy 400 loaves of bread. Today it essentially does the same thing. It buys 400 loaves of bread. So this is an asset that just maintains buying power over long periods of time. What changes and what drives gold's price up and down is actually currency itself, right? If the dollar strengthens, it needs less stronger dollars to buy an ounce of gold. But if the dollar weakens, we need many more weaker dollars to buy that same ounce of gold. So that's my point. Gold is this sort of fixed asset. It's currency that fluctuates against it. Look at the current situation we're in. And I think we're going to talk about this in a lot more detail. But we have national debt that's exploding. We've got central banks around the world that are running away from US dollars. For the first time in a long time, US dollar holdings by central banks today are at 35-year lows. We have debt amassing at a pace never seen. Debt reached 38 trillion five months ago, 39 trillion today. It's an unstoppable momentum. So these problems are creating massive shockwaves through the global economy, and gold is responding on the back of it. Listen, for centuries, gold was the standard for an international currency. And ultimately it was for a very simple reason. For centuries, countries basically haven't trusted each other, right? So it's made no sense for one country to hold another country's currency, right? If we were holding all of our wealth in Chinese Yuan, the government in Beijing could go on a printing spree. We're left with worthless paper. So gold was always the standard for an international currency. In the 80s, the world sort of transitioned, right? They moved away from gold to government debt. The belief being that, you know, the world now trusted each other. This post-World War II US-led order meant trust was there. And if the trust broke down, America would step in to police it. I think that illusion has been shattered. For many reasons, trust globally has broken down. Second of all, debt as an investment today isn't viable. Debt to GDP in the United States, like 124%. That's breakpoint. So I think the world has realized, you know, that the system we have created is broken and they're transitioning back to what was always the standard for international currency, and that is gold.

SPEAKER_00 8:57

And what about cash? Because I know cash has historically also been viewed as this safe harbor when there's times of uncertainty like we have today. So what is the role of cash for retirement savers, especially in this environment where currency does remain a big part of the conversation and inflation is hitting people every day at the grocery stores, at the gas stations? How should we think about cash?

SPEAKER_01 9:22

Look, cash absolutely has a role today. I would never tell anybody that cash is useless. Look, it's definitely useful for liquidity, right? It pays bills, it gives you flexibility, it helps you having to avoid selling investments at the wrong time. And it gives retirees ultimately a cushion during market volatility. So I don't think the issue is whether somebody should hold any cash. I think the answer for almost all of us is absolutely yes. The question today is whether cash should be treated as a long-term store of value in an inflationary climate. And I think the answer to that broadly is no. We're conditioned to feel cash is safe, right? If we put$100,000 in a bank account today, five years' time we got$100,000, we haven't lost anything, right? So it feels safe. You don't see red tickers against your cash holding. But the problem is purchasing power reduces over time. And if your cash isn't growing as fast as the cost of living, then you got a problem. Essentially, you're losing money. In real terms, you're losing purchasing power. And that's kind of the problem today. As you mentioned, in almost every crash previously, cash was a safe haven, right? We've been through similar climates like this. We had stagflation in the 1970s and 80s, uh, where inflation was persistent. It's like 7, 8%. The difference was you put your cash in a bank account, you were getting 15 or 16%. So you weren't getting rich, but your money was growing. It was beating inflation. It made sense logically to sit on the sidelines and wait. The problem today is those numbers really don't match. What do we get? Four and a half percent sitting in cash. Even official inflation data puts it at over three, like 3.3% today. If that was correct, we'd be yielding 1.2% to inflation. The problem is everybody knows official inflation. Numbers are light today. The government in the 80s and 90s, on the back of high inflation, used certain tricks to drive the metric down. If we calculated it in the same way we did in the 80s, it would be 7 or 8% in the current climate. That's the problem sitting in cash today. You yield four or 5%, everything else is getting 8% more expensive, you're losing buying power. And that's the upside, right? The upside is I'm getting 4.5% and inflation's at X. Look at the risk. If inflation continues to rise, those losses could escalate. If the dollar continues to fall, those losses would escalate. So the way that I look at it, at least for my portfolio, we've got to have cash. There's emergencies, there's things that come up, but it's when cash is sitting in a bank account for two, three, four, five years, losing potentially 3, 4% a year, that's when it becomes problematic. And then that's where I think other things make more sense. So to summarize, I would say cash is for short-term certainty, but other assets, gold specifically in climates like this, are for longer-term resilience.

SPEAKER_00 12:36

And when you're thinking about your own financial portfolio, even how much cash are you thinking is a good amount to keep for emergencies? You often hear of the like three months worth of burn rate or living expenses. Is there any parameters or best practices that you think of? And then the rest should be maybe invested in some of the other places that we're talking about today.

SPEAKER_01 12:59

It's a tough one because everyone's every situation is so unique. Some people are spending lots of money, others are much more frugal. Some people, you know, have higher chances of unforeseen things coming down the line. I would say personally, at least for my own portfolio, three months feels light. I usually look at it in terms of 12 months of liquidity for my portfolio. Um, that that's at least my rule. But like I said, it's very much individual. And I would tell people generally err on the side of caution.

SPEAKER_00 13:31

Okay, that's helpful. You mentioned the national debt is almost approaching$40 trillion, right? When you hear numbers like this and you just hear them increasing, it's abstract. It doesn't feel real. It doesn't feel like it's something that even affects you. It really feels like somebody else's problem. When does it stop being someone else's problem and start having direct consequences on someone's retirement portfolio?

SPEAKER_01 13:56

Yeah, it does feel that way, right? It feels existential. You put it better than I could. It feels like somebody else's problem. But the reality is a lot of the issues today we're feeling as individuals are on the back of that. So I think the major debt problems are already real today. There's not some magic number that when we cross, suddenly it's going to be a real issue. Um, it's not a race to the finish line, right?$40,$50 trillion and suddenly everything changes. Debt works more, I guess, like rust, right? It corrodes slowly, it weakens the structure. And by the time everyone can see the damage, the repair bill is already absolutely enormous. And the consequences are already showing up, right? We're seeing it inflation, we're seeing it now in higher interest rates, we're seeing it in pressure on the Federal Reserve, right? We've got inflation ticking up. What the Federal Reserve really should do is raise interest rates to combat that. But if they do that, it drives borrowing rates on the national debt up and it makes it unmanageable for the federal government. Now, that's not supposed to be their concern, but it absolutely is. And, you know, we've got a government today that are borrowing enormous sums of money just to keep operating. You know, we're seeing it now in the way that families are forced to compromise to maintain living standards of living. And that's kind of the retirement connection. Debt affects retirement portfolios in a number of different ways. It's pressure on inflation, it's pressure on interest rates, it creates political pressure and puts pressure on the Federal Reserve. And it creates this confidence risk. And this is kind of a very technical problem, but it's really important. Listen, the world is lending us money, right? And for many years, we were viewed as the lowest risk borrower, the most trusted partner, and it allowed us to borrow money from central banks very cheap. Borrowing money cheap allows us to get to this huge debt number and it maintains it's manageable, right? For example, we can buy a much more expensive house if interest rates are at 1% than if they're at 10%. The premise applies to the national debt as well. But the concern is this countries around the world are looking at us and they're saying, this isn't looking like a risk-free investment. The United States today, we're spending 50% more than we earn every year, right? If I asked you for a loan today and you were like, look, let me look at your books, and I'm spending 50% more than I earn, you'd either not lend me the money anymore, which would be the prudent thing to do, or you're gonna say, Philip, this is looking really risky. I'm gonna need more interest. That's what's happening. The Federal Reserve have lowered interest rates five times in the last two years. Borrowing rates are going up on the debt, not down. That's a sign that the world is viewing us as a risky investment. And we're in a position right now, from a debt standpoint, that we can't we can't suffer increased uh service payments. It just doesn't work. So that's the real risk. The number today is absolutely astronomical. Debt service is now becoming unmanageable. And uh yeah, so I think we are already at that point, quite frankly.

SPEAKER_00 17:21

And when you talk about how the world sees the US, I mean, many people argue the US is still the largest and the most innovative economy in the entire world. So can the US just grow its way out of this? Can growth help us manage the debt problem over time? Like, how would you evaluate that argument?

SPEAKER_01 17:40

Listen, I think the argument needs to be taken seriously. We are an extraordinary economy. We have deep capital markets, we have world-class companies, we have unmatched innovation, enormous energy resources, uh, and a culture that still rewards entrepreneurship better than almost anywhere else in the world. So I would never bet against America or specifically the American people. Growth will absolutely help, right? The idea is if we can grow the economy faster than we can grow debt, it starts to become manageable, right? It's basic basic arithmetic. Um, but the the numbers are absolutely astronomical today. I mean, look, since the 1980s, debt has averaged, I think, 8% growth a year. GDP's averaged about 3%, right? So, yeah, and by the way, debt is amassing at a much faster pace in in the last five years than at any other time in history. So, you know, we're not starting with a clean balance sheet. We're starting with you know all-time high global debt, large annual deficits, and rising interest uh cost. Secondly, the government is still adding new debt, right? We've got a$2 trillion annual deficit, as we mentioned earlier. Thirdly, a lot of the federal budget is politically difficult to change. Like we could cut costs, would be a smart thing, right? But that would involve things like looking at Social Security or Medicare or Medicaid, which is not something that any politician wants to discuss. I mean, they call uh Social Security the third rail of American politics for a very simple reason. You touch it and you die. Um and and look, it's it's a very tough one because people who've paid into Social Security, they deserve to get the benefits of it. So I'm not suggesting that that's the solution either. But growth alone, I think, given where the numbers are, is going to be really, really difficult. My only hope, and I have to be very clear, I'm not an expert here, is we get some sort of magic out of an AI boom, which allows us to grow exponentially. The more I look into it, the more I get concerned we have a bubble there. But I'm I'm I'm I'm I'm clasping at straws. So what I would say is longer term, I always have faith in America. We have the most blessed economy, the most, you know, the natural resources, geography, all of it. But we've burdened ourselves with a massive debt problem. Whether we can grow fast enough is is a question I don't have the answer to, unfortunately.

SPEAKER_00 20:23

And is the debt problem unique to the United States? Like, is this something that the United States is uniquely known for and trouble that they've really gotten themselves into, or are other countries around the world operating with these principles as well?

SPEAKER_01 20:38

Yeah, debt is a global problem. Like if we remove debt to GDP in the United States, can the European debt to GDP amongst the entire West averages 110% today? So the answer is absolutely not. The difference for us, though, is our debt matters to the rest of the world. The rest of the world's debt doesn't matter to each other. We are the global reserve currency. So every nation around the world is holding our currency that they use for international trade. So when we're printing money and to service debt liabilities, we're devaluing the dollar in the process, and we're affecting every central bank around the world that's holding our currency. So that's the big difference between our debt position and everybody else's. Our position affects them, theirs doesn't affect ours or each other's. So we're in a unique position. We have the most to lose. Global reserve currency is an incredibly privileged uh uh position to hold. That's what we risk losing. But no, this is a global problem when it comes to debt. Listen, this is where politics and economics create massive issues, right? We've had this isn't a Republican or a Democrat thing, this is a politician thing. Like every time we have a crisis, they have a choice, right? It's tighten the belt buckle, go through some really hard. Hard times and get through it. But the problem is if you're a president with four years in office, that's not going to get you re-election. So every single time they push for more spending, they increase the debt problem, and they let the next guy deal with it. The problem is we're running out of rope now.

SPEAKER_00 22:17

Yep, that makes sense. Another term we hear of often is de-dollarization. Okay. That can mean different things depending on who's using it. So let's just break down what's actually happening. What does de-dollarization mean? And how does it connect to the larger conversation we've been having around the dollar's reserve currency status and these like shifts and how they're impacting everyday people?

SPEAKER_01 22:43

Yeah, it's an interesting one. Look, US dollar holdings by central banks today are at 35 yellow. So there is an active push by central banks to move away from the dollar. Now, I want to be very clear. What it doesn't mean is that the dollar disappears tomorrow, right? It doesn't mean that every country switches a thing and tomorrow they're not using dollars. It doesn't mean that we lose our global reserve currency status overnight. The United States, and I hate using this term, but it is still the tallest midget in the room. This is the best currency in the world today. It is deeply embedded in the global system. It's used in trade, commodities, banking, debt markets, all of it. So the extreme version of de-dollarization is often overstated. But the opposite view nothing's going to happen. There's no challenge to the dollar. That is equally misguided. What we're seeing today, I think, is more gradual and in some ways more important. Company today are trying to reduce dependency on the dollar at the margin. So what we're seeing is a lot of trade settlements now being done between countries in local currencies. That wasn't really a thing five, six, seven years ago. We're seeing nations like the BRICS Nations, Brazil, Russia, India, China, they're creating alternative payment channels. They're increasing gold reserves. So not only have central banks been uh US dollar holdings at 35-year lows, they've been replacing those dollar holdings with gold. Central banks have consecutive annual records for gold buying uh since so for the last five uh four years consecutively, one after the other. Um so what de-dollarization means right now, I don't think it's flicking a light switch. It's a slow diversification away from dollar dependency. And that matters because, as I mentioned, reserve currency isn't just this technical privilege, it's a trust arrangement. The world holds dollars because the United States has historically offered debt, liquidity, rule of law, military power, economic strength, all of that together. But the credibility has to be maintained. And right now we're running chronic deficits, we're expanding debt now without restraints, we're using the financial system as a geopolitical weapon. By the way, sanctions, asset seizures, they play a big part in this as well. Look at when central bank gold buying started. It started in 22 when we seized Russia's sovereign wealth fund. I am no fan of Russia's invasion into Ukraine, but from a monetary standpoint, it was a very dangerous precedent we set. We told any nation around the world if you do anything that we just morally object to, your assets will become liabilities. So we have created incentives for the world to start finding solutions. And that's my big concern. Like I said, the dollar doesn't lose global reserve currency status overnight. But a few big things. One, the average length one nation holds global reserve currency, like 90 years. We're at 80 right now. So we had it since 1946. So historical precedent says our time's starting to run out. Now we look at the debt situation. We've got$2 trillion annual deficit. Not only that, but countries that are lending us money, we're printing money to pay them back and in the process devaluing every single dollar bill that's pre-printed. Then you've got half of the world in the form of Russia, China. Listen, China want to take Taiwan eventually, right? It's very clear that's part of Xi's legacy. If they moved on Taiwan today, they got about$4 trillion in seizable assets. We could cripple their economy. There is a realization that they have to start dedollarizing. One final point, and I don't want to over talk this. Look at even the Iranians. This thing is playing out every single day. Iran can't fight us militarily, right? They got these little mosquito boats coming at destroyers, but they're not targeting destroyers. They're trying to make people think twice about holding our debt. Look what the Iranians said. Any ships that settle in Chinese Yuan, they can pass through the straits. Any ships that settle in US dollars cannot. That's the issue. They understand the way to kill us is from the inside. So anyway.

SPEAKER_00 27:15

Well, you've talked a little bit about the central banks, right? And how the role that they're playing in de-dollarization. And one of the moves we are seeing is central banks around the world buying gold at a pace that we haven't seen in decades. So is that a response to what we're talking about? And should retirement savers be taking note of that trend? That's novel.

SPEAKER_01 27:37

Oh, yeah. Listen, central banks are buying for the same reasons that we are, right? In many ways. They're holding US dollars, they're seeing the purchasing power of those US dollars decline, and they're looking for something that can combat that, right? It's the same thing as us, just at a much bigger level. What they are not doing is buying gold because they saw a television commercial or you know, because it's a hot trade, right? Central bank's job is to manage reserves. So they have to think about safety, liquidity, currency risk, long-term stability. So when they're buying gold year after year after year, retirement savers need to look at what they're seeing. And in my view, diversifying away from sort of over-reliance on paper reserves is really, really important. For decades, the reserve system was heavily centralized on US dollars and US treasury debt. And it made sense for a long time. Treasuries were liquid, they were deep, they were widely accepted. But central banks are now operating in a very different environment. Inflation has returned, geopolitical conflict has returned, sanctions, as I mentioned before, reminded governments that financial reserves can just be frozen or restricted. They're looking at US national debt that is climbing. And gold has a number of advantages in environments like this. It doesn't have default risk, it's not issued by another country, it cannot be printed, it is liquid globally, and it has thousands of years of history as a reserve asset. Um so, you know, uh like I said, what applies to major central banks, it applies to us. We went through an experiment in the 1980s, and the world moved away from from from debt, away from gold towards debt. That illusion, like I said, has been completely shattered, and the world is reverting now to what has always been the standard, and that is sound money. At the end of the day, we need our money to to to we need our buying power to be protected over the longer term. I bring you back to the example I gave you at the beginning, right? Thousands of years ago, gold bought 400 loaves of bread and it does the same thing today. The history of currency is a history of devaluation and destruction. No currency in world history has thrived over long periods of time. It's exactly why you go to countries like China, you speak to an 80-year-old there, they understand the value of gold because they understand the fragility of currency. They've seen numerous currencies come and go. We haven't from 1945 until today. The United States has seen peace, prosperity, and unbridled economic growth. But that is the historical aborition. And I fear we're reverting to the historical norm today.

SPEAKER_00 30:34

And a lot of people watching this, I mean, some people have more time on their side than others when we think about retirement savers in the United States. Often they'll have their money in like a 401k, right? Which is heavily weighted towards stocks and bonds. So without suggesting what you think everyone should do, you know, how can physical gold fit into that retirement structure? How should timing be a factor in terms of when you're actually planning to use that retirement versus like maybe where you're at in your career or your lifespan? Talk a little bit about those mechanics and like gold as a diversification strategy.

SPEAKER_01 31:12

Yeah, I'm glad you use the word diversification, right? Because I think that's the key. Anybody putting all of their eggs into any one basket, I don't think um, you know, there's a lot of out there, right? We've mentioned uh markets, we've mentioned bottle markets, and I think ultimately everything is worth spending some time on and looking at in in terms of diversification. When it comes to the IRA specifically, it's an interesting vehicle, right? This is where most people hold most of their wealth. So, in terms of a vehicle to look at for diversification, it makes absolute sense, right? I think there's a lot of opportunities, but I think, like I said, people who are looking to anchor a safe haven, a currency hedge, a way to preserve buying power over the longer term, gold today needs a place within most retirement accounts. And you're seeing it even from the big banks, right? I was a banker many years ago at the turn of the century. And if you'd asked me about gold, I would have laughed you out of the room. Like I thought it was a relic because I was looking back at the previous century and it didn't do it. But today, when we're seeing debt and deficits expanding, we're seeing what central banks revert to in times of crisis, it was a reminder for me as well. Gold is very important. So um the IRA, like I said, is a very good vehicle because it's where people hold a lot of their wealth. Luckily, US tax code allows for us to move any portion of our retirement account. So it's not an all-or-nothing thing. I would never suggest that. Any portion of a retirement account, there are no tax implications or penalties, and they can move into physical precious metals tax deferred within a retirement account. We specialize at that at Birch, so we can help anybody sort of through that process, what it looks like, how it works. And I think there's a link in the description. They can click for any free information. I'm seeing the the guide up by my head. Um, in terms of timing, listen, I trying to time the markets generally, I think is a very dangerous game. And one of the benefits of physical precious metals is it's a commodity, and commodities just generally go up in value over time. So I think the regardless of a obviously you don't buy gold and sell it tomorrow, right? So anybody looking at this wants to have at least a three to five year horizon in mind. Um, but I think anybody that has the ability to hold in this climate should seriously be considering precious metals. I think what they're a very good alternative to are things like cash, right? We talked about the issues earlier with cash. It used to beat inflation. Today I think people mostly are losing. Gold next to that provides a lot of the same security, but it's designed to increase with the cost of living. And I think everybody, like I said, who has the ability to hold should be looking at it.

SPEAKER_00 34:18

And for someone who's curious about precious metals, but you know, is skeptical. They don't want to be pressured into anything, especially when they're talking to a dealer of some kind. What should they be looking for when they're trying to find a reputable precious metals dealer or like a gold IRA type of company?

SPEAKER_01 34:40

Well, well, the second you get pressure, hang up the phone because that's the world, yeah. So it's like it's the worst way to make decisions. So that first and foremost, the sort of high pressure or fear-mongering, I think, is a massive red flag. And if anybody gets any of that, and I've heard it happens at the end of the day, gold is a safe haven asset. So if people are looking for safe havens, there's an element of fear, and from what I can gather, there are companies out there that prey on that. So that would be a major red flag. And the second you hear that, you get out of it. What I would say in general to people is just get educated. Before you speak to anyone, like we have a ton of free information, there's no commitment, no nothing. I would tell everybody to read that, then take that information and reach a research around it, right? The more we understand about the issues, the more I think fear is removed. Fear is a very dangerous emotion when it comes to making decisions like this. It forces people to be knee-jerk. You know, anybody that tells you that if you don't move into gold today, you're gonna miss the boat. That's crazy, right? Gold is a commodity, it creases at a steady rate over time. So, in my mind, build that knowledge base. With that will come comfort. Once you're there and you think this is the right decision, it's just about speaking to the right company. Obviously, I'm gonna come here and tell you, Birch are the right company. We absolutely are. But like I said, look for people that are informative, that are explanatory, that understand well the asset that they're dealing with. And as long as you have that, you're probably with a good company and they can guide you through. But for us specifically, what I would tell people, just get access to all the free information. We've written books and guides and everything. We've got videos out there. They've got me carted around almost daily trying to provide information. So that's what we're here for. Get the information, soak it up, and you'll be able to make good decisions from there, is my feeling.

SPEAKER_00 36:49

Yeah, I appreciate how careful you are to frame all of this as preparation rather than a panic. I think that often people will come on and use the other tactic, right? For various reasons, but it really seems like you're speaking to a responsible, level-headed type of investor versus somebody who is acting out of fear. And I think that that energy is welcome, especially at a time where it feels like there is so much pressure to act quickly and framing it as like, you know, this is a preparation strategy. This is like a safe strategy versus a mass panic of something you're missing out on that you're gonna heavily regret. So I appreciate that. Before we wrap, a couple final questions. So you get to work with retirement savers all the time in your organization and some of the past worlds you've been in. What is the single most common mistake you see people make when they first start taking some of the issues that we've discussed today more seriously?

SPEAKER_01 37:51

That's another very good question. Um, I think probably the most common mistake is people waiting for certainty, right? People are waiting for this perfect signal, right? They want someone to ring a bell and say, hey, inflation's now permanent, or now the debt's too high, or now the dollar's in trouble, you know, now's the perfect time to diversify. Markets and monetary systems, they don't give warnings like that. They do. And by the way, by the time that everyone kind of realizes, okay, yes, there's a problem, a lot of the time the price of protecting is too high at that point, right? So, like what I always tell people is as much as possible, try and be preemptive, right? And say, and that's why I'm saying like education is so important because you can see the problems on the horizon. You can go back and say, okay, how does this typically manifest over time? And like I said, looking at debt, deficit, uh everyone should look up something called Ferguson's law as well. I'm like my brain is is jumping around. But debt service in the United States is bigger than defense spending in all of human history. If interest payments on the debt are bigger than your defense spending, the empire collapses. So, like I said, that wasn't meant to frighten. But like I said, going down this route, the more you learn about the problems, the more you see it, right? And all I would tell people is you're not gonna get this perfect signal, this perfect sign. If something inside of you is saying, this is making sense, something doesn't feel right, usually that's the time to start getting educated and start taking preemptive steps. And as long as you do that, you're gonna be fine. Don't panic, don't put all of your eggs in any one basket, no matter what that basket is, but just take cautious, preemptive steps. And as long as people do that, I think it's gonna be fine. Precious metals are like insurance, right? Is you know, you buy something that goes up when other things come down. And that that's kind of the concept, right? The reason that people are looking at it is when the dollar goes down, gold goes up. When inflation goes up, gold goes up, right? So you look at some stuff that you have and you say, okay, I've got cash in the bank. What's the risk? It's inflation, right? If inflation is persistent, that cash is going to go down, right? If you have money in the markets, what's the risk? It's a potential crash short term or a recession, buying an asset that goes up in that time period. That's why I say I hate to use the word insurance because obviously there's risk when you buy anything, but the idea is this'll go up typically when the other stuff goes down. And that's kind of how I view it. You don't want to get insurance in hindsight. As much as possible, you want to try and get it before any event happens. So, like I said, I think the biggest risk is people are waiting for this perfect time or this perfect signal, and it doesn't exist. So if you see a problem, just try and start preempting it and taking steps to get past it. As long as you can, you're probably gonna be just fine. Most people, last thing, they bury their head in the sand and they do absolutely nothing. And it's human nature, right? We've got kids and jobs and lives, but those that can see it and be preemptive are usually the ones that get through.

SPEAKER_00 41:14

And if someone has gotten to this part in our conversation and they're feeling inspired, but they are more risk-adverse, they want to take one calm, rational next step. Would it be educating? I feel like that's been a theme that you've been saying is just go learn, download all the free resources. Is that your next step?

SPEAKER_01 41:34

That is absolutely it. That is all I would honestly, if they've listened this far, they should definitely do it. If you can put up with me for 40 minutes, they can definitely read this very informative information. So that is all I would ask from people. And I think there's a link in the description that people can click. That'll get them access to all of our free information. Read it and do whatever you want with it. If it piques their interest and they think, hey, I want to learn more from there, they can always contact us. They're gonna get access to myself or a lot of people like me that can answer questions and guide them through. But just do that. That's all I ask.

SPEAKER_00 42:13

Okay, final one. What is one thing you wish more retirement savers understood before they even moved a single dollar into precious metals?

SPEAKER_01 42:23

For me, the big one is debt and deficit. When I said people look up Ferguson's law, like that's the one. It's it's a very technical concept, right? It's it's the bond markets controlled the global economy, right? They've lent money to countries around the world. Look at countries like Britain. You know, we lost prime ministers in Britain on the back of budgets. Look at the French, right? So I this concept of bond markets, debt, deficit, Ferguson's law, that's the stuff that when I first learned, right, it really got me focused. So I think if people can understand those concepts, the solutions will be really simple. Uh so not an easy one for people to go. I'm I'm sorry, but it's a it's a it's a concept everyone should understand today.

SPEAKER_00 43:09

No, you've given us homework, which we always appreciate, and we'll include all of the links to everything. You're gonna get the full show notes for this episode at incomeinsider.org. So thank you again, Philip Patrick, who is from Birch Gold Group. You've really helped break down some of the bigger forces that are shaping the financial system today. And thank you, everyone, for tuning in to another episode of Income Insider TV. All of the links, all of the resources, all of the topics that were discussed in the show will be linked in the full show notes for the episode. And you can also request a free guide from Birch Gold Group to learn more about physical precious metals and how all of this works. So if you found this helpful, please take a moment, like this video, subscribe to the channel, be here for the next. Next one. We don't want you to miss future episodes. We're bringing on more experts just like Philip, founders, thought leaders, all here to help you better understand the trends that are shaping your money and your retirement and your financial future. So thank you so much. I'm Sam La Liberty, and we'll see you next time.