Daggermouth by H. M. Wolfe: We Are Not Okay

This week on Spill the Spine, we tried to discuss Daggermouth by H. M. Wolfe…but honestly? We blacked out a little. This book came in hot, stabbed us emotionally, and then left us to deal with the consequences. We’re yelling, we’re confused, we’re questioning every life choice that led us here. Characters? Unstable. Plot? Unhinged. Us? Absolutely not okay.

Somewhere in this episode we do talk about the book—between spirals, side rants, and whatever else derailed us. Proceed with caution…or don’t. We didn’t.

Come scream about it with us on Instagram: @spillthespinepod

New episodes drop every other week.

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:00

There we go. Okay, we're rolling. We're live. We're rolling, we're live, we're live, we're live.

SPEAKER_01 0:05

Let me take a chug rolling.

SPEAKER_00 0:11

So I can edit it out in post. Okay. I gotta get my notes. I was gonna say you you have notes.

SPEAKER_01 0:20

I'm free balling.

SPEAKER_00 0:22

Free balling?

SPEAKER_01 0:23

I took very I have plenty of like highlights and stuff though to talk about.

SPEAKER_00 0:28

Like I I tried to like if I was just throwing a random fucking like what's it? Let me take this out of my case so it doesn't make noise or we're because that'll just get picked up.

SPEAKER_01 0:41

Off you go. Okay.

SPEAKER_00 0:48

Alright.

SPEAKER_01 0:50

You got your notes.

SPEAKER_00 0:51

I do, guys. I have a lot of fucking notes. You do!

SPEAKER_01 0:53

I'm excited. This is a lot to talk about. I feel like this is gonna be a long episode. It's so good.

SPEAKER_00 0:58

It's such a dope book. I love it so much. Alright, you ready? Yes.

SPEAKER_01 1:03

Welcome back to episode six of Spill the Spine Pod. I'm Morgan. And I'm Brie. And we're back. We have cr we have new microphones. We do. They're very neat. Hopefully we sound we sound good. Hopefully we don't sound ridiculous.

SPEAKER_00 1:17

Or loud.

SPEAKER_01 1:18

Or right, or super loud. I think our pr I guess he's our producer. Our tech guy, our producer, Daniel, will take care of uh take care of the sound for us. Speaking of, by this comes out, by the time this comes out, happy birthday, Daniel. Happy birthday, Daniel. We're recording the day before his birthday.

SPEAKER_02 1:36

Yes.

SPEAKER_01 1:36

We're having, I guess we're having a dinner party I didn't know about. Bree was like, Bree was like, come over, do you want to stay for dinner? We're gonna record, and I was like, yeah, let's that sounds great. And then I get here and she's like, surprise, we're having a dinner party. And I was like, oh, okay, cool. Everybody's here. I'm glad I put on real clothes today. Mike came dressed after the t after the tanning salon.

SPEAKER_00 1:59

Mommy. Shorts and t-shirt.

SPEAKER_01 2:01

Hey, nothing wrong with some shorts and t-shirt. It is disgusting. Do you like it? I got it in the ash boom. I do on your trip over last weekend. Yes. The step mushrooms on it. Very nice when you left me alone for two days at work. And asked me. I'm about to fucking by the time this one. I was about to say by the time this episode comes out, I will be on a boat. You'll be gone for a week and a day, so I hope. I will. I will be gone. So weird. That's coming up very fast. Coming up very soon. So bullshit. Today's episode is Daggermouth by H.M. Wolf. We'll get into that in just a second. But I wanted to tell you, I'm having FOMO this weekend. Why? From Coachella. I'm calling it Biebercella. I saw that. Oh my gosh. I I had so much fun this morning getting up and me, because I wasn't going to stay up till 2 a.m. Like what our time to watch it. Watch it live.

SPEAKER_00 2:54

No.

SPEAKER_01 2:55

That's not happening. Uh love you beebes and all wanted to see you for the nostalgia, but I'm not staying up till two in the morning to do it. Commend everybody else who did. But I was like, I going to festivals like that gives gives me such anxiety. I hate it. And I wanted to I want to be there in the I think it'd be very fun.

SPEAKER_00 3:14

I've been seeing a lot of Coachella things on my TikTok. Like all the outfits are so cool, the makeup's been cool. But you got me fucked up. You guys are wearing long pants, trousers, whatever the fuck you want to call them.

SPEAKER_01 3:24

It does get cold at night, I hear, like in the desert. Like it gets really cold. But when you're sweating, I've seen people's camp setups, which is really neat. I've seen a lot of really cool things, but like also I'm like, I can't. I couldn't do it. But I wanted to I wanted to see Sabrina. I somebody's I've seen a lot of comments, people being like, well, her set was boring, and I'm like, then it's not for you. It's not. This is what happens when a theater kid gets a budget, and she used it to the maximum ability she could use it. And it was so every clip I've seen, every video I've seen, it's so good.

SPEAKER_00 3:58

I haven't seen any of hers. I saw it. Oh my gosh, I'll show you.

SPEAKER_01 4:00

It's so good. Justin's I got I saw comments this morning being like, that's especially on like other social media, everybody's like, that's lazy. Did you hear what he did? He brought his laptop out. He did. The reason he did that is because he doesn't own his masters. This is a very like Taylor Swift-esque scenario where he doesn't own those songs anymore. He doesn't own, he can't make profit off of them anymore. He doesn't write, he doesn't get any royalties off of those anymore. So I'm sure to a certain extent, he's not legally to some degree allowed to. So this was his workaround. And I thought it was cool. Yeah, TRL told him. I thought it was kind of cute. Like he got on stage and he's like, I played you swag, and I played you some of swag too, which not my favorite albums by any means. Um, and then he's like, for the nostalgia bit of it, how far do y'all go back? Like it's kind of like you're just hanging with the homie on stage. Like it's very intimate. I thought that was so cool. So for all of you who are saying this is lazy, why do you guys allow this? Because this is his workaround. He doesn't own those songs anymore, okay? I'm not gonna defend a lot of what he does in life, but this is where I will st I will stand my ground and say for people who don't own their masters, there's really not legally a lot that you can do.

SPEAKER_00 5:15

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 5:15

Like that's why Taylor's version, like, sure it sounds similar, but those aren't the same songs. She she didn't own them. She couldn't do much with them. Like she had to do what she had to do to say, this is me re-releasing it in my own in my own right, but he, you know, he's probably of the same mindset. Like, I don't own these. Yeah. So but I thought it was cool.

SPEAKER_00 5:39

I do.

SPEAKER_01 5:40

I thought I think that's so cute. Like, it just felt very like personable. Yeah. And his wife was in the crowd, having a good old time.

SPEAKER_00 5:49

That fucking witch.

SPEAKER_01 5:50

Hey now, I love her. I love her brand. Road is one of my favorite brands.

SPEAKER_00 5:55

You know this. I own like half of those lip treatments. I went down the rabbit hole of their relationship. That's a big rabbit hole to go down. That was. And there was like a 10-part series on TikTok. Did you watch the whole thing? The whole thing. You know what? Good for you.

SPEAKER_01 6:13

I I I don't think I've know like the ins and outs.

SPEAKER_00 6:16

Oh, it's a crazy fucking story.

SPEAKER_01 6:18

Oh, I'm sure. They I knew they knew each other like when they were young, like their family is kind of mingled or whatever I think is.

SPEAKER_00 6:25

I think she's I want to say like 13 is the first time she met him. And like her dad orchestrated it all. Yes, of course. Of course. And it's just been a big ass shitshow since then.

SPEAKER_01 6:34

Because at that point he was with Selena.

SPEAKER_00 6:36

Yes.

SPEAKER_01 6:37

The Selena of it all really is what gets me.

unknown 6:39

Oh my god.

SPEAKER_01 6:41

That's you want to talk rabbit holes. The Selena rabbit holes worse.

SPEAKER_00 6:46

I love I love the conspiracy part of the I love myths. I just love no. This is a crazy conspiracy. That they actually got pregnant. Him, Justin, and Selena were forced to give it up to adoption for adoption. Wait, it gets better. It's one of the Kardashian's kids. Penelope, I think.

SPEAKER_01 7:08

Penelope! You're telling me that Penelope Dissick, who does unfortunately, I'm pretty sure, look like her father.

SPEAKER_00 7:15

It's one of them. I don't know if it's Penelope or the one underneath.

SPEAKER_01 7:17

Rain? Is it Rain? No.

SPEAKER_00 7:19

I still can't remember.

SPEAKER_01 7:19

Is Rain one of Tim's? I feel like Rain might be one of Tim's kids. Actually, no. I feel like it's I feel like Rain is actually her middle name. Penelope Rain Dissick, I think is I could be wrong. I'd have to I'd have to go down the Kardashian rabbit hole, and I don't think I'm ready to do that today either. That's a whole nother story.

SPEAKER_00 7:40

It's all a shit show.

SPEAKER_01 7:41

That's crazy. I didn't I've I feel like I've seen that conspiracy theory, but I think I just kind of scrolled. I was like, I'm not gonna. Oh, I listened to it. I was like, I'm not gonna watch that. But you'll have to send me that 10-part series because I'm not gonna deploy. I kind of want to watch it. But yeah, the the comments about Sabrina's set being bored, like boring really got me. Because I was like, you you don't know Ball. You don't know. That's exactly it. You don't know Ball. I had the best time looking at her set. I was like, what a great set. She had like a convertible that she drove in, and she had like Susan Sarandon like do a whole little piece and like all kinds of really neat like cameos and stuff. She builds a story throughout her set, which I think is so cool. But she had this convertible and dearing tears, you know that song that we love that. I first I wasn't at first I wasn't in on that song, and now I'm like, you know what? It's pretty good. But at the part before the dance break, she lifts the seat lifts out of the convertible, and a fountain stars going and it's so good. I was like, what a what a production thought to have. Like I will just show me that. I will.

SPEAKER_00 8:52

The seat of my convertible, come on, explaining that to somebody, and they're like, yeah, it's a good one.

SPEAKER_01 8:58

Explaining it to somebody who knows who knows nothing about the context of the song. Like it was just so funny. I was like, her mind is a great place to be. And she opened with house tour, which was cool.

SPEAKER_00 9:14

I don't really know.

SPEAKER_01 9:15

I feel like you that one's that one's the one. Um I repost that song probably every week some to some TikTok, the My House is on Pretty Girl Avenue. Oh, yeah. That one's my favorite. I do love that song. But yeah, I'm having I'm having a little bit of FOMO. Just a little bit.

SPEAKER_00 9:32

Just a little bit. Did you see where Teddy Swims brought out Vanessa Carlton?

SPEAKER_01 9:35

And Joe Jonas. Diddy, and yeah, they said they sang I saw the Vanessa Carleton one, and then they did um, he brought out Joe to do When You Look Me in the Eyes, and he was like, Oh, it's Joe Jonas, the sexiest Jonas brother. And I was like, correct. You're correct. Yes. Because I wasn't a Joe girl until I got older, and I was like, I see. I see what you've all been talking about. No. No, Kevin's the oldest. Okay. Joe's the middle. What's in a technicality? I mean, because Frankie is the youngest, like technically Joe and Nick are somewhere in the middle. But it's Kevin, Joe, Nick, and then Frankie. Right? Right. Yes. Like second guessing myself now. I'm like second guessing my mind.

SPEAKER_00 10:23

I could not remember the third, but yes, it is Nick.

SPEAKER_01 10:25

Yes, Joseph and the Nicholas. And then my friend Frankie, who's coming to town soon, actually.

SPEAKER_00 10:33

Is he a performer?

SPEAKER_01 10:34

He's yes! He has he has a band. They all, you know, he he said, I like I want to do music, but I'm not gonna do it with you guys.

SPEAKER_00 10:42

Not with you in your purity range. That's so funny.

SPEAKER_01 10:46

I love that they make fun of that now, too. They're like, uh, that was a different time. Ugh. Different time. But and it's Euphoria Sunday.

SPEAKER_00 10:58

I've never watched that show.

SPEAKER_01 11:00

Really? It's um I mean it's about drugs, that's for sure. Yeah, I know the basic concept, but never. I think season two was fun to watch just because it was a clo I mean, it was just like a downward slope, like a spiral. You've got Zendaya's character spiraling, everybody else is spiraling. Jake Valorty's character is just doing something different. Eric Dane's characters spiraling. I will say I wasn't originally gonna watch like much of the third season because I was just kind of it took too long. I'm kind of out on the whole storyline they're going with anyways. And then Eric Dane passed away and I was like, well, this is one of his last one of his last go-arounds, like, for the series. So I was like, and for Jacob Alordi. I was like, I'll watch it for Zendaya. Everybody else, so especially if you're Sydney Sweeney, I'm not a fan. Yeah, you and your stupid genes. Get out of here. Get out of here. She's doing like this, it's set in the future, like so they've left high school. Okay. Rue is Zendaya's character, I I is dealing drugs question mark. On the run? I don't know. I'll find out when I watch the first episode. I'm really confused.

SPEAKER_00 12:24

Is the first episode dropping tonight? Yes. Oh, okay.

SPEAKER_01 12:27

Yes, I think it comes out at like nine or so on HBO Max. So we'll see. I'll have to watch and report back to you and tell you tell you what I think. But it's it's weird. It's gotten very weird. Because she does Sidney's character does OnlyFans now. But she's marrying Jacob Lordy's character. It's gonna be weird. It's just gonna be what it is, I guess. I heard it dr uh Rotten Tomatoes gave it like 57%. So I'm I'm not hopeful, actually. No. That it's any good. Which kind of sucks because you waited this long to give us a season. It's been let me look it up, but it's been was I wanna say it was like a little after before COVID, after COVID?

SPEAKER_02 13:20

Oh.

SPEAKER_01 13:21

It's been a long time. So season two premiered, okay. So season two premiered January 9th of 2022 and concluded towards the end of February. And 2020.

SPEAKER_00 13:40

You waited three years.

SPEAKER_01 13:41

Yeah, it's been a long time. It's been a long time, and then we're all like, it's coming, it's coming, we promised. And we're like, we don't have high elaborates, don't, don't do it. So we'll see. But you know what is good that we can vouch for? Daggermouth. Daggermouth by HM Wolf. Let's get into it, because we I feel like this is gonna be a long one. This is not going to be spoiler-free.

SPEAKER_00 14:07

Oh, absolutely not.

SPEAKER_01 14:08

Absolutely not. If you want to read this book, which I think you should, um don't listen to this episode until afterward. I don't want to spoil anything because the plot twists, I could not- I had no idea these were coming.

SPEAKER_00 14:20

No, not at all.

SPEAKER_01 14:22

Her mind, like, I was like, I'm reading it and I'm going. I think I know where this is going. I think everything's gonna be kosher for a minute, and then everything goes. And I told you this, everything went left so fast.

SPEAKER_00 14:40

I couldn't keep up. Like, I had to reread the ending, like the last one.

SPEAKER_01 14:43

I reread it at least twice. I was like, what do you mean? What do you mean?

SPEAKER_00 14:47

And like I was texting Morning as I was finishing the book because she I wasn't ready to freak out with.

SPEAKER_01 14:52

So it's been it's been a week since I read it. I, at the point that I last Monday when I after I had finished it, and I was sitting there, I was like looking at my goodreads, going, somebody surely has read this so I can like have conversations. And only two of my friends at this point had finished it.

SPEAKER_02 15:12

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 15:12

So I kind of texted them and I was like, hey, like, I finished this book too. And we had very brief conversations about it, but I was like, I need somebody that I can like deep dive into this. Um, and I same day I started it, I started it this time last weekend. So about like three, four o'clock, I was like, well, let me just get into it. Let me like see what it's about. And I immediately was hooked.

SPEAKER_02 15:37

Yes. You were touched.

SPEAKER_01 15:39

I was immediately hooked. It's it's just one of those like true dystopian. Yes. There's there's romance and there's Yeah, but it's not like the forefront of it. No. Which I like which I liked a lot because it was very much like, yeah, these people are falling in love, or these people are you know Daisy Daisies.

SPEAKER_02 16:00

Uh-oh.

SPEAKER_00 16:01

Uh-oh. My green light was on, sorry. Uh-oh. Hopefully. Hopefully you're not blown out and both of our fucking mice. I'd hope not. Should be fine. If not, Post can figure it out. Post can figure it out.

SPEAKER_01 16:14

But very much so, like, dystopian. Like true rebellion. Like it it brought me back to my like these books as kids, like the Hunger Game series, Divergent series, like these were my bread and butter as kids.

SPEAKER_00 16:32

I have my first note. It says from the beginning, it's giving Hunter James and Quitsilver vibes, which is it's also um is Quicksilver technically dystopian? Is that kind of the the beginning of it is like her like where she is living is very much like it's kind of very similar.

SPEAKER_01 16:49

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 16:49

Yeah, and then uh also the bride not the bride of brutal hearts, um the trial of the The Sun Queen is that yes, that is also very dystopian. Yes, no, but it's also like they have the the slums boundaries, like right, very much wealth disparity trying to keep the lower class back to where they belong.

SPEAKER_01 17:11

It very much like Hunger Games for sure gave me very much like they live in the she lives in the crappiest like area. They're all separated from the capital. She lives in the boundary.

SPEAKER_00 17:25

In the boundary, which is the furthest range, I'm assuming from heart.

SPEAKER_01 17:29

Yes.

SPEAKER_00 17:29

And then you have Cardinal.

SPEAKER_01 17:30

Yes, Cardinal, which Pharaoh is the leader of Cardinal. Yes. She um and Cardinal is very much like the farmers, the they're the closest to the closest to the heart because they're not the tr better treatment, not quote unquote.

SPEAKER_00 17:46

Yeah, quote unquote, better treatment. Um, but they're used as free labor.

SPEAKER_01 17:50

Right. In within the heart, they have labor camps and things like that for them because they grow the food and and work for the heart. The heart is essentially like the elites, the rich people, those who follow the rules and believe in whatever they make the rules, they only make the rules, that's right, you're right. Well, they make whatever rule Maximus tells them. We'll get into him in a little bit for sure.

SPEAKER_00 18:20

But bringing it back to all of these elites are all masked.

SPEAKER_01 18:24

Yes. Everybody else in the different rings don't. They don't adhere to the mask.

SPEAKER_00 18:29

No. Um yeah, I I fucking hate the masks.

SPEAKER_01 18:34

The masks an interesting concept.

SPEAKER_00 18:36

It is, but it's also like it's so easy to treat people like shit because you are hiding behind these masks.

SPEAKER_01 18:43

Yes, and I kind of liked the separation that she created with that because it's very much an us versus them. Absolutely. But it's interesting too when it comes to like the parallels in the different rings, is they're all doing their own thing to like aid the quote unquote rebellion. And none of them are working together. No, we don't get that until the very end. No, none of them are working together. You've got different sides, and even Grayson is the e he's the executioner. Grayson is our main male protagonist. And he has to essentially, if his dad says, yeah, this one's out for treason, for And they are the stupidest things.

SPEAKER_00 19:27

It is really the first killing we get is because they're from the boundary and Cardinal fell in love, and that is. Which is prohibited. Prohibited, right?

SPEAKER_01 19:35

Which is a death sentence. And that's crazy. He's and but you see like his inner monologue, he's like, well, his hesitation, that was it.

SPEAKER_00 19:45

Yep.

SPEAKER_01 19:45

He hesitates. He's he's kind of going back on like what his father is saying is word.

SPEAKER_02 19:52

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 19:52

Like what his father is deeming right or law. Grayson is very much like struggling, he's at war with himself, going, This is my family, this is our legacy, but I don't want to be this person.

SPEAKER_00 20:03

It's not right.

SPEAKER_01 20:04

It's not right, they just loved each other. He shoots the man and he turns around to shoot her, and he hesitates. Yes. Because she's essentially begging for her life, and you know, anybody would in that situation. So he is hesitating, and it's all live streamed, which I think is crazy. Like everybody, including the rings, is it everybody in the rings can see I think so. It's like I think it's broadcasted like world worldwide, essentially, within their world, everybody can see it. And then you have Grayson hesitating on live stream, and his dad is, of course, watching and losing his shit.

SPEAKER_00 20:44

Yes. And because of this hesitation. Sorry. We get to his punishment. Because he's been punished. Because Maximus loves to punish the fuck out of him. Maximus loves a punishment. And not in a good way. So his punishment is to take the vow, which is pretty much marriage. But you, you know, uncover your face.

SPEAKER_01 21:10

You and your you and the person you're vowed to, your wife, you're only allowed to see each other's faces, and then you have to put the masks back on. And I think is it like essentially you never like take the mask off, like again? Is that kind of the notes? Not for that. Obviously not for them. Like in public, you can't remove your mask. That's against the law.

SPEAKER_00 21:31

It is so once you're married, yes, you can, you don't have to wear your mask, like in your house.

SPEAKER_01 21:39

But they he's like, This is your punishment, you have to take the vow. You you need to step up for this family. Like, this is getting to be ridiculous. And that jumps to Shadira's point of view, which Shadira. Yes. Huh. I called her Shadra. Fair enough. No, I called her Shadira. Right, but I call it I could be wrong, but I'm pretty sure it's Shadira. That makes more sense. Does it? I love how but it goes back to that sound on TikTok where it's like In the beninging, like the weird, you're trying to like especially in like fay, like fantasy novels where you're like, I'm not quite sure how to say this, so we're just gonna blossom real fast. What do you mean? Right. So you jump to Shadira in the boundary, she is a dagger mouth, she is a mercenary. Yep. Killing me. So contract killings. She goes to right. She goes to Jaeger and he hands her a contract. And come to find out that Maximus killed her parents in front of her. She's believed to be dead to some extent. He doesn't know that she's still alive, kind of thing.

SPEAKER_00 22:51

Yeah, I don't think he's he hasn't been keeping an eye on her.

SPEAKER_01 22:53

No, he hasn't been keeping an eye on her. So she's out of the the eye of Maximus. Right. So she comes to find out that the contract that she's being handed is for Grayson Sorrell. Yes. So she's like, I'll take it. Like if anybody can do it. And Jaeger's very much like, listen, you don't you don't come back from this. This is not one you're just gonna come back from.

SPEAKER_00 23:16

You either kill him and you can't get it.

SPEAKER_01 23:17

You either kill him and you get out, or that's it, and I can't save you. She was very much of the mindset, this is it. I can do this, give it to me. Nobody else can do it like better than I could. I want this chance, give it to me. So Jaeger gives her the contract, she goes off, Jameson comes to visit.

SPEAKER_00 23:35

Which is but also I want to add, because we find out later. Right. Way down in the end of the book, Jameson, not Jameson, Jaeger's like intentions, because let's be honest, although Rayson did not kill her parents, her dad, his dad did. Right. And she still holds a grudge, and she is very emotional about this. Oh yes. And so in hindsight, she should not have gotten that contract. No. And Jameson makes a point that, like, hey, you're not thinking right.

SPEAKER_01 24:06

You're thinking he does. You're not thinking of the mindset, you're not gonna get out. This is this is a death sentence, essentially. And he's not wrong. No. And Jaeger's intentions aren't great. Like, I will absolutely agree with that. His intentions aren't great because at the end of the day, doesn't he know who signs these?

SPEAKER_00 24:25

Right, which brings it back because these contracts are expensive.

SPEAKER_01 24:28

These contracts are expensive. Only the only the elite are the ones who are signing off on these contracts. They're taking out the contracts. Right. Which is uh we found out later. But like when I'm reading reading this, I'm like, somebody had to, this has to be an inside job because Well, and I I was very much like I kind of figured from the beginning, like when I'm reading this, my mind immediately went to your daddy's trying to off you. Right. I said, uh, who put a hit on Gray? Dad. Dad. Yeah. Sorry, your your dad's a piece of shit. If I'm gonna guess anybody put out a hit on you, it's your own parent, which is crazy to me. Like, what you're not doing what what you want him to do, so now you're like, well, let me just go down the boundary and take out a little hit real fast. I'll get him sorted out. Like, what did you think was gonna happen? Mm-hmm. So Jameson comes by, he's like, You're not thinking rationally. They after they had right after they hidden quit it. He's like, if I told you that I love you, no, get out, okay, homeboy. I I know where this is going. I want my enemies to lovers. Scram. So I have a little message. This is giving Gail from uh I said Jamison loving her.

SPEAKER_00 25:45

This budget's going to be so fucked.

SPEAKER_01 25:48

Oh, thousand percent.

SPEAKER_00 25:50

Thousand percent. Um, just because like he did love her and he was like, And listen, I get it.

SPEAKER_01 25:57

He's he's got a soft heart in the face of you know, all this death and destruction and all things coming his way, because like he's trying to aid, he's aiding sick kids, and and this comes based on his sister. Yes, you know, he's not making it, he didn't make it with the medication before she unfortunately passed untime in an untimely way. So I get that he's like trying to make up for he's trying to save people. Absolutely, and I think that's so good. I think he's his character adds value. I think he's great. But in this retrospect, just not great for shade. It's not great for shade, right? Shade and this point of the plot. I want you gone. Get out of my face. You are very much the gale in my Pita Catnus realm right now. This triangle, get out, it never ends well for you, dog. Yeah, just go while you while we're still early in, just go. Uh side note, he did not go. He went. He went, he's been in my face the rest of this book, which, you know, again, I think his efforts are valuable. Yes, but um also get out of my face, dog. I've got other things to worry about. Yes, which brings me to my next people to worry about.

SPEAKER_00 27:15

We have to go back because I before this, Jamerson quote, we meet callum. Callum. Yes, we do. I my favorite, my favorite man in this universe. And I was so fucking worried when we first started reading, I was like, please don't be a piece of shit. Like, I like you so much.

SPEAKER_01 27:31

No, I knew. Like, out the off the gate, like off the rip, I was like, you are far more valuable than dare I say he's far more valuable to all of these efforts than Grayson. Like, no offense to Grayson. We figure out very early on that Grayson is aiding the rebellion in his own way, all the medical supplies that he's saving, like he's keeping these efforts hidden or doing his best to because well because of who his father is, yeah. Right. But it can all be traced back to him if he gets caught. Like he's very much sending out extra supplies to the outer rings to make sure that people are at least somewhat more taken care of, that they can aid their sick, they can, you know, doing what he can live to see another thing. Right.

SPEAKER_00 28:16

Which is his he has a very like you can imagine that internal fight he has to be like, I'm killing these people.

SPEAKER_01 28:23

But I'm also trying to, it's almost like he's trying to make good on yes, I'm having to do this because of who my father is, and I I can't falter, I can't hesitate. This is this is my legacy. Unfortunately, I have no way out. I I am a Sorel, like this is it. And then you have on the other side, well, if I can't get out and I can't do anything else, let me just do this because I know what he's doing is wrong. Yep. And I like the parallels I think between him and Shade, where they're doing these own things to survive, like an aid and try and like help in some way, and they're going through those internal struggles of I know what I'm doing is wrong, but this is the only way I know how to survive, this is the only way I can do this and like make it out and live to see another day. So I think it's a very interesting, like if they had just talked from the beginning, like I think from the charm, if y'all just sat down and had an honest conversation. But we get it, they're both enemies because we're true enemies, like true enemies from the other side of the tracks, like and she was very clear about this from the synopsis of the book. Like, this is a true enemies to lovers plot.

SPEAKER_00 29:32

Because we find out that the first executioner, his brother, was had a contract hit on him and killed.

SPEAKER_01 29:41

Shocking. Shocking. We Why are you offing all of your children?

SPEAKER_00 29:46

Oh, we know why.

SPEAKER_01 29:47

We know why they know why. We didn't know why they I didn't know why at the time, but I know why now. So, you know I don't like the why behind the first one. Right.

SPEAKER_00 29:59

So Grayson assumes. Well, we know a dagger mouth killed. Right. He assumes, and it's our our good friend Shade. Shade, and she's telling him, like, after I don't know who did it. Yeah. But we come to find out later. Like, she she did she did kill him. She just didn't know. She just didn't know.

SPEAKER_01 30:19

But they so she goes to kill him.

SPEAKER_00 30:21

Yes, sorry, we sidetracked. She knew. We did sidetrack. She makes it in. She goes to kill him. Now, mind you, he is fighting for his life getting rid of this vow to. I can't even remember her name. Not really. She's irrelevant, to be honest. Nobody but like she is all she's.

SPEAKER_01 30:36

She's from a wealthy family. She knows she's prepared for the vow. She knows what she's meant to do. She's she's essentially a snitch. Like, if if he were to be honest with the person he was going to take the vow with, he'd be dead. Yes, because she's a loyalist. She's a loyalist to the heart. Like, she's very much I'm gonna tell. Yep. Absolutely. Like, there's no there's no loyalty to him, there's no secrecy.

unknown 30:58

No.

SPEAKER_01 30:58

She would raise a red flag.

SPEAKER_00 31:00

And it's like the day of their vow.

SPEAKER_01 31:03

Yes. And he is and she get makes it in to kill him and make good on the contract.

SPEAKER_00 31:08

And had her own emotions not gotten in the fucking way, she would have Well, and his mask fell. No, it didn't. He took it off.

SPEAKER_01 31:15

No, that's right. That's right. It didn't fall. That's the story he went with. My mask fell off while we were fighting. Oh no, she saw my face. He took it off and was basically like, do it. Right.

SPEAKER_00 31:25

Like you're doing a favor. Already. Right. Right. And had her emotions not get in the way because she wanted him to know who was killing him. Right. So she shot him in the chest. Maybe like underneath the ribs.

SPEAKER_01 31:38

A little bit, right.

SPEAKER_00 31:39

A little lower than like under the ribs. And he, you know, they're fighting. He takes his mask off and just says, do it. And she does not pull the trigger to shoot him in the head. Which is crazy. Her undoing, because again, emotions.

SPEAKER_01 31:53

And they get caught. And they get in in this whole scenario, they get caught by the Vera officers, and that's that's that.

SPEAKER_00 32:00

That's that. And you know, it's death for both of them.

SPEAKER_01 32:02

Right.

SPEAKER_00 32:03

Well, she already doesn't have a mask, but he pulled his off.

SPEAKER_01 32:06

And they find a loophole because his mom was like His mom made the fucking law. Now hold on. We can't we can't fault her too bad. And we'll get into that in a little bit. I do hate her though. I don't. Oh, we'll talk about it. Like in the moment, yeah, you're like, what a stupid. You think that she's so loyal to her husband. You think, oh, like I have I have this duty. I wrote the law. Like, I'll just, you know, here's what we'll do. And Lyra, his sister, was even like, Well, mom found the loophole. Like, you can live. Like, I don't have to have both of my siblings gone. Yeah. You can, you know, because Lyra knows, like, she's like, I have no, I have no say in any of this. Right. Like, I am just here to serve whatever purpose until she's sold off to do the vow herself.

SPEAKER_00 32:54

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 32:55

So he she's like, at least I get to keep one of my siblings, and you get to stay alive and continue on with whatever it is you're you're trying to do. Because I think to some degree, while she doesn't know, like I think his sister knows, like, he's doing something. I don't really know what he's doing, but he and Callum are both of the same like valor where they're doing something to help. Yes.

SPEAKER_00 33:18

Callum probably a little more.

SPEAKER_01 33:20

Right. Because he can't get caught. He's running the entertainment district. They very much leave him to do whatever he's gonna do because he He's a collector of secrets. Right. He knows so much about information to him is is currency. You come through there and you do something wrong and you can offer him something, he's gonna take you up on that.

SPEAKER_00 33:41

And then kill you.

SPEAKER_01 33:42

And then kill you, absolutely. But I think while we're on the topic of, you know, the the family and like that whole that whole thing where she has no say in like the family, that that first like kind of initial family dinner where they're talking, I think about him taking the vow and things like that is when this happens Maximus saying this family is not a democracy, you will mourn your brother however however I tell you to mourn, and you will never again question my choices. That point blank, as soon as I read that quote, that pissed me clean off. I was like, You're kidding me, you're kidding me.

SPEAKER_00 34:19

Because he Maximus has not been trying to find his killer.

SPEAKER_01 34:24

No, no, and they're all like we need to worry about who's who killed our brother, like it's been years, nobody's doing anything, like he hasn't been brought to justice, and essentially she he obviously knows who did this, what happened, right? He's he's hip to the information, he's just like, Yeah, that's not happening, shut up. Pretty much, pretty much what what happened, and of course, they um they are told, you know, you don't question it, you don't ask me anything. Even his mom is he's essentially like, you're you're to be seen and not heard. Yeah, that's for the for the standard of women in the heart, you are to be seen and not heard, which I think is just that whole thing. Like, I called this book like midway through, I'm like, this is female rage to the musical, and I love it because we because yes, the men in this book are powerful, they're doing things, they're quote unquote running the show. Yeah, but are they absolutely not? The most dangerous characters in this series are by far the women. Yes. And we'll get into the most dangerous one when we get to the train wreck that happened at the end, because that was I could never have guessed what was happening.

SPEAKER_00 35:43

So to back it up, so he gets shot. He gets shot. She gets taken into trusty before they are figuring out what the hell to do with. She's beaten to a shit at this this point. Not too bad. Not too bad. She is, but what happens is they finally figure out what they're gonna do. They're gonna take the vow. Right. So they find that loophole, they're like, here's what's go to take her out of jail. And while she's in jail, she they find out that she tried to shoot Grayson. Yes. Well, she did shoot him. So that is giving voice to the rebellion. Yes, they start singing the uh hold on, I have it. Uh in the jail after the shooting, the whole jail singing the national anthem of the old world, the song that had been outlawed when Newfound Haven rose. It was more than a song, it was a battle cry.

SPEAKER_01 36:33

It very much gave catching fire where she's going to all these districts, her and PETA have been told by President Snow, like, you have to keep the peace. Like, this is getting out of hand. You want to live, you better keep the peace right now. And you see, like, especially in the movie version of the books, you see like people getting shot like by the like And that's what happened. And that's what happened. They moved on. All these right the whole jail after singing that song. It was so like I was literally like foaming at the mouth. I was like, this is very much because catching fire is one of my favorite and she favorite drugs.

SPEAKER_00 37:10

The face of the rebellion, which she does not want.

SPEAKER_01 37:12

She doesn't want, she is very much like, I don't want this, don't put this on me. I don't want to be a part of it. I just want to live. Like, you want to do that, that's fine. I'm not in this. This is your fight, not mine. But it's hers now. But it is hers now. It's her and right. You you took that contract. You are now right. What did you think was gonna happen? You were just gonna get away with it, everything was gonna be fine. No, no, you were gonna be. I think like Maximus would have made a good show out of it. He would have brought somebody to justice. I think this was a way, if that had been the route that he had gone and she had actually made it to kill him, she would have actually been a pawn. He would have absolutely murdered her in front of a billion people and made a good show of it. Yep. Whether he called the contract or not.

SPEAKER_02 37:55

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 37:55

He would have used that as a good show to like harbor resentment towards the other rings, do what he was gonna try and do anyways, it was gonna be a whole show.

SPEAKER_00 38:03

Uh so during that, so they have a meeting with Maximus, and then Dracon shows up. Right. It's like a whole thing. Right. She makes a big show of it, like you're gonna take the vow. Not even that. So without warning, Maxim reaches up and removes his mask, and the air in the room seems to freeze. I called her Shadra. Shadira, right? Shadeira. Um, saw for what it is, his attempt to assert dominance, flaunt his power, to tell her without words, he was the heart, and the law does not apply to him. And that's exactly how they think they all think the law does not apply to them, they are above it. Absolutely, a thousand percent. Oh, fucking irts me to know it.

SPEAKER_01 38:45

But he he threatens her and Grayson in the same breath, says, Here's video footage of all these people that you care about. I'll take them out without hesitation. That's it. Yep. I've got bombs planted everywhere, like we don't know that yet. Is that I was about to say, is that that's too early? We don't know that yet. I think that's like down the line. We will threaten you out. I'm gonna take you out. You know, like one way or another, you're gonna comply.

SPEAKER_00 39:09

Yep. I'm gonna take you out. So for Shade, it's Jamerson. Right. And then for Grayson, it's Callum and Lyra. Right. Um is it Lyra or Lyra?

SPEAKER_01 39:19

I feel like it's it's whatever the fucker caller.

SPEAKER_00 39:22

I feel like it's Lyra, but I could be wrong. Lyra. I fall or both.

SPEAKER_01 39:26

I've cut right, it depends on. So they do that. They agree to it. They get the threat. They agree to it because they're like, we gotta keep our people. And you know what I'm saying? Like, I hate your guts, but I we both agree, like, these people are not to be messed with, they are not collateral in this scenario.

SPEAKER_00 39:44

You know what I love? Is after this meeting, like, she has to go live with him. Right. And the first night they both try to kill each other. Like, at what point was that gonna solve the problem?

SPEAKER_01 39:55

Like, for you to both now be like, Well, we might as well be judging out of each other and that be it. And they do, like, it's so funny to me. I'm like, what was gonna solve it for you? Like, nothing, you just got threatened. Why are you at this point again? If we had just had an honest conversation, but they hate each other so much. They hate each other, right? They hate each other so much. Also, at this point, his apartment's bugged, like his dad's got eyes and ears everywhere, right? Which they do find, right? And Callum loops it through so nobody can figure out like what's going on. Here's at least a little bit of peace for you. That's you know, that's gonna be that. But he is he is watching them like a hawk. He's like, whatever, you know, is going on here, I'm gonna suss it out because you're not gonna get one over on me, buddy. Which I ugh.

SPEAKER_00 40:49

I hate him for.

SPEAKER_01 40:49

I hate it all because of course Jameson figures out he's being watched by the drones, destroys those drones. And but they keep coming, but they keep coming because that's part of his other plan is I'm scoping out what these rings look like to know where to put my grand bombs that I'm gonna decimate the rest of the city with. Which we find out later, isn't bombs, I guess. Right. They're trying to get they're essentially like decimating everybody like in one in one go to keep the infrastructure, but get rid of it. Get rid of it and fill it with more elites, so it's more of a which we which we find.

SPEAKER_00 41:22

So they end up going, Grayson shows her the city, giving her details without directly saying it. So this is where we find out that the military's building something. We later figure out this is gas.

SPEAKER_01 41:35

Right, and they get suspicious. Yes, because he this was on the way to family dinner.

SPEAKER_00 41:39

This is before, like in the morning after his executions, yes. In the morning, before family dinner. He takes her all over heart.

SPEAKER_01 41:46

So let's see it. He lets her see the entertainment district, he lets her see the the farming portion of and then they see their ports, and that's where we find out that there are more people that survived Heart than other than Heart, which I would like to know what happened.

SPEAKER_00 42:04

How did we get here? I think I think that's gonna be book two.

SPEAKER_01 42:07

Like it's kind of gonna be more like a prequel. Like not like a prequel, because I don't think you can really go back that backward. That's true. At least after the ending, I don't think you can go that backward. We gotta go forward. You gotta tell me what's going on.

SPEAKER_00 42:22

But I do want to know how we get here.

SPEAKER_01 42:23

I think we'd get more stor. I think we'll get more like background, I think we'll get more information. Because it's very much like I love the way that HM writes this because it's very much you get multiple points of views in the chapters. Yeah. I get to know what what this person's doing, what this person knows versus what this person knows. I do love that. I think it's so great because now somebody give me a whiteboard because I'm gonna need to write all this down to like this person knows this, this person's doing this to kind of keep track of it. But you're getting you're getting a picture. Yeah. But it's not always obviously the complete pictures. There's a puzzle piece or two missing on unfortunately Maximus's part because he's not just gonna No, because we He's not that prideful.

SPEAKER_00 43:07

He does not trust Grayson.

SPEAKER_01 43:08

He does not trust Grayson within an inch of his life. We know we'll find out later why. Right. Um But she they show up to that family dinner, and that family dinner was a shit.

SPEAKER_00 43:21

Wait, before we talk about this family dinner. So before they go out, she gets her masked. Yes. Chaydra gets her masked.

SPEAKER_01 43:29

Yes.

SPEAKER_00 43:29

She has a little conversation with Lyra. And it says this isn't just a symbol of status status, it's a muzzle, a constant reminder that my face, my identity, my very existence belongs to Heart First, to this what was their last name? 'Cause I call I've been calling them Syreel. Sorrel. Sorrel. To the Sorel name second and me last. Yes.

SPEAKER_01 43:51

I is that the I that might be is that chapter fifteen? Is that where it comes from? I highlighted everything in my in my Kindle. So it'll tell me like which chapters, but I don't get like mini context. But it's um I think that that's around the time where they're looking like they're looking out and Grayson says beautiful things are often built on ugly foundations.

SPEAKER_00 44:18

Oh, I have that. Um after Grayson showed her the city, every perceived notion she had about Grayson had been challenged today, not erased, he was still the executioner, still the enemy. Yep. But beneath the identity, he was also a boy caught in a web, a man created by an evil system whose soul at the very least suffered the pain he caused. Evil could sometimes come in the form of beauty.

SPEAKER_01 44:39

And then they get to they they get to family dinner. Yeah. Oh Jesus. Which is just that family dinner, I think, made me so angry. Because essentially Lyra got threatened with I haven't done this to you yet, and I could. Then there's mom got beat. Mom got beat, Lyra got threatened, Grayson he pulled a gun on Grayson, shot him in the shoulder. Yep. I'm like, share a stab with a fork. She was about to do Grayson stabbing her with a fork underneath the table, going, hey, quit it. Which usually that hurts worse than a knife. We find out later. Which is hysterical. I'm like, you know what? Fair enough. That would hurt me worse too. Because quit stabbing me over and over with a fork. I get what you're trying to do, but let me just do what I'm gonna do, anyways.

SPEAKER_00 45:27

Uh, yes. And that leads us into after the disastrous family dinner, we see Lyra meet up with Callum. Yes. Which we learn about their whole little love story of the city.

SPEAKER_01 45:40

Because that's that's in the that's in the training. T she's training and he comes to like visit. This is after he realizes Did she get no. He sla he slapped her around at this point. Her dad slapped her around at this point, didn't he? So it's either at this point or further down the line, but that that does become I feel like I highlighted some of that as well.

SPEAKER_00 46:03

So Lyra meets up with Callum. Somebody calls for a meetup. We're not sure who. Yes. At this point.

SPEAKER_01 46:10

Because he's called somebody and said, hey, we gotta we gotta meet.

SPEAKER_00 46:14

So a lot of stuff happens that we're not quite sure. Like there's a couple phone calls going on.

SPEAKER_01 46:19

Because she she calls too at one point and is like, I have a plan.

SPEAKER_00 46:23

So at the same time this is going on, somebody calls, uh, and it's stretching attempt for Python. Python calls and says, get me out. And they're like, We can't do this, you need to stick to the plan. Which we have no idea who Python is.

SPEAKER_01 46:38

I thought it was I thought it was not Callum. Callum was not on my list at all because I'm like, that's too obvious. Like he's out in the open. Yeah. Um, who it actually ended up being wasn't even on my radar. No. Um, I thought it was their brother. Yes. I I had a very big feeling. I was like, he's gonna be alive at some point. Don't know when, don't know how. Could be book two, but it gave very much like first time I'm reading Fourth Wing going, where's your brother at? Because I know he's alive. Totally know he's alive. But that's who I kind of thought it was. I thought he was fighting, like kind of underneath underground, like kind of being like secretive, and they like for the most part, it was need-to-know basis. Yeah. Kind of that kind of thing where if you know, like you tell no one, you die with the secret, like nobody knows. Um, I loved the training between them where we got more information about them. Um, I highlighted females have no place training beside men, Lyra, her father had said, your place is behind us, ready to be called on when needed, not beside, never beside. Like again, this is where female rage the musical comes in because it's so very reminiscent of current times. Yep, absolutely. Where it's very much like you don't belong here. Why are you speaking out of turn? That kind of thing, which I'll speak out of turn as many times we can. In whatever tone I feel, and I will say whatever I want to say. Right, what are you gonna do to hit me? I done gun. Like Right. Right, what are you gonna do? Like at this point, it's very much like that reminiscent of that, like that whole females have no place, training beside men, bite me. Like, we if if you ask me, nine times out of ten, women are more strategic than men, women are stronger than men, um, women are smarter most days than men. Sometimes, yeah. Sometimes. It depends on who you voted for, and I will leave that there. It depends on who you voted for, and we're gonna leave that there. But in this day and age, that's I can tell you the people that voted that one way. Dumb. You would be hearts elite and you would be hearts elite and you would not be in the rebellion. I, you and I would be running the rebellion from underground. I'm talking like soldier boots on the ground, journalism in the heart of the rebellion. Like this is we're we're doing it. Um and that's the same. That chapter where she said that is the same. Um the same where he's Callum says my favorite line, which I highlighted, hi baby. I was like, ah, I love him.

SPEAKER_00 49:13

We do love him.

SPEAKER_01 49:14

I love him. He's so great. I loved their story. I liked seeing he's waited five years for her. Like, oh my god. We can't get into it now.

SPEAKER_02 49:24

It's too early.

SPEAKER_01 49:25

We can't get into it now, but we will talk about it.

SPEAKER_00 49:27

So it's too early. So while all of that is going on, we have Jameson and the other seven people going in to get shade.

SPEAKER_01 49:37

Yes, essentially he calls a meeting with Jaeger and is like, listen. Jaeger and um is Cardinal in this one? No, Cardinal Varner is not. No, Pharaoh has nothing to do with it at this point, it's really just Jaeger.

SPEAKER_00 49:50

Jameson does go to her.

SPEAKER_01 49:51

Jameson does go to her at some point. Before this. Before this. But she's not necessarily involved. Not yet. Yet. Yes.

SPEAKER_00 49:59

So this is just Jaeger.

SPEAKER_01 50:01

This is just Jaeger and his people, and Jameson is begging. He's like, we gotta go get her. Like, this is ridiculous. What are you doing? Whiny, whiny baby, like this whole thing. I'm like, it it reminds me, don't save her. She does not want to be saved right now. She's trying to do what she's gonna do.

SPEAKER_00 50:18

And I I get why he wants to do it. I get why he wants to. Nobody needs her from her. Nobody knows totally understand. He's like, This is all coming from informants inside a heart that we we don't know we can trust. We don't know we can trust, right? So, like, I understand why. And she almost leaves.

SPEAKER_01 50:34

She almost does, she falters, and then comes Jameson fucking fine, you have your hands on my wife. And I was like, get away from his wife, go away.

SPEAKER_02 50:42

Yes.

SPEAKER_01 50:43

This is where he you are you are of no use to me, and Jaeger kind of has the same sentiment. You need to leave your emotions at the door. Yeah, you want to survive this rebellion, you better leave them at the check-em.

SPEAKER_02 50:56

Yep.

SPEAKER_01 50:56

And that's where I think it's so funny because I feel like in a lot of these books, it's very much the oh, women are too emotional, they can't lead a rebellion. So it was kind of nice to be like, nah, this man's too emotional, get him out of my rebellion. Because what are you gonna do? I'm sitting there the whole time reading this, going, You're gonna blow it. You're gonna blow this entire operation, you're gonna waste it for people, all because of what you love her and you want to save her. She doesn't she can save herself. That's never a question. She's going to save herself. You just have to give her some time because right now, unfortunately, the villain is villaining, and he's real good at it. And I'm so upset that he's so good at it.

SPEAKER_00 51:34

Yes. Um, because what is she doesn't go? She doesn't go. Grayson pops in and's like, You're you're not going anywhere. Um, so they move on from that, but they also learn about the bombs.

SPEAKER_01 51:48

At that point, they know about the bombs. She does tell them, like, listen, this is why I'm not going. I can't do this. You have to, you have to worry about the you have to worry about the boundary, you have to worry about the rings, you have to tell everybody you have to get.

SPEAKER_00 52:00

Well, she's people prepared. I'm staying, so Jameson doesn't have to make that choice. Right. Because he would choose everybody else over her.

SPEAKER_01 52:08

Right. And I I do want to go back because before the before that even happened, um, some of my favorite the c there is like some very comedic, like almost like moments. Like the one where he was listen uh uh Grayson was listening at the door while uh you know Yes Shadir's getting her rocks off a little bit and in the kitchen the next day. This is one of my favorite I laugh so hard. He's like, you know, you're loud enough to wake the neighbors, and she goes, I don't know what you're talking about. He goes, No, my mistake then. And she goes, You're a fucking creep. And he goes, since the woman who spent half the night moaning loud enough to wake the neighbors, and she goes, You don't have any neighbors, and at least I know how to satisfy myself. When was the last time somebody touched you for free? I was like, I love that line so much. When was the last time somebody touched you for free? Never, no, I'm kidding. Um that was one of my favorite lines, and then you've got um Lyra had one of my favorite lines after that. Um because I and it was when she was talking to Shadira, and she said, Because I'm a woman in a system designed by men to keep power in their hands, because every time I've tried to mitigate suffering, I've been reminded of my place. And it's when she was talking about the mask. Um, that was before she she explained the quote that you loved. Um, that it's just it isn't just a symbol of status, it's a muzzle. This is them reminding her of her place. Um I did like after he shot, after Max shot Grayson, and she's, you know, she's essentially giving him I want to go back to that because she gave him a safe space like afterward. Like they were in his apartment being just very like she cleaned up his wound, and it was very like almost like we're on a similar playing field now. I see what you're going through. She tells him, like, I'm gonna talk to you as a survivor. Right, like as a survivor, which I loved that moment so much. I think that was such a like a crossing moment for them, like a come to Jesus moment, almost like we've gone through similar things. Yep. I now see your situation for what it is, and I judged you based on what I didn't know. And I like that he said the woman sent to kill him was the only woman who had ever made him feel safe. Yeah. Because he's they're they're on their own. Like they both of them, and I that's why I said I love their parallel so much of their different their stories, because they're you're alone, like you're alone in this. He can't trust his dad, he doesn't know what to do with his mom. That's not very helpful. Lyra can only do so much. Again, she's been reminded of her place, but again, because nobody talks to them, to each other. Right. Nobody talks to each other. That's the other thing is Chaydra says it.

SPEAKER_00 54:56

How can you guys do this if you guys don't even talk to each other? Right, you guys don't even talk about it.

SPEAKER_01 55:01

How are you gonna how are you gonna do anything if you're not even trying to help each other out first?

SPEAKER_02 55:06

Yes.

SPEAKER_01 55:08

Um but I loved I loved that I of course highlighted everything from the only the only technical like intimate scene we get I loved is because it's between Callum and Lyra.

SPEAKER_02 55:20

Yes.

SPEAKER_01 55:21

It's shockingly enough, by the time I got to the end of the book and I realized, oh, like Grayson and Shadira like fold around a little.

SPEAKER_00 55:28

Yes.

SPEAKER_01 55:28

But then he saw that picture that she had taken of him and his brother that they put like pre-masks and stuff that they weren't supposed to have. He saved it. It's contraband, but he saved it and hid it. And she's like, I she's like, I recognize that face, but why? And we'll get to that in just a second, because that's common. Um she's he finds it when they're fooling around, so that ends that she's like, I can't trust you, like I thought I could trust you. It's a whole, you know, it's the the third act, like, I can't trust you, and I thought I could. Um but you know, they they're essentially like, you know, they were gonna get to it. But I like that they didn't. I kind of got to the end of the book and I was like, you know. I didn't miss it. I didn't miss it. Like their relationship grew in the ways it needed to. Their bond grew like for me enough to where I was like, you know, I don't necessarily need this right now. I can be gratified later on. Yeah. I'm not looking for the instant gratification like I usually am, where I'm like, it's page 360 where it's just do it already. Not in like fourth wing where I was like, listen, you've got me for another four other pages, but let's speed this along. Because I know you hate her and you hate him, but I'm gonna need y'all to hurry up, bang it out. We're just gonna need to bang this one out. Yeah, no, I for them. I feel like that wasn't gonna be an option. I that wasn't a good enough option for me. No, like I want you to communicate.

SPEAKER_00 56:56

I'm glad she did not.

SPEAKER_01 56:57

I'm glad they didn't. They fooled around a little and you know, and that was enough. That was enough for me. I was like, you know what, good for you.

SPEAKER_00 57:04

But also, can we communicate? Let's just communicate. Pretty there.

SPEAKER_01 57:09

So So Okay, what were you gonna say? They go out, Jameson tries to extract her, they say no. This is the what the night before the vow? No. Something happens.

SPEAKER_00 57:22

Something, it's like a few days before the vow. Because two days before the vow, Jameson. Which is yes, Shane get locked up by his dad.

SPEAKER_01 57:33

They get Grayson, yes, so I'm getting there. Because this is after, so they go, they go on the night out, they get back, and that's when all the officers are sitting there ready to ambush them.

SPEAKER_00 57:45

They kill all of them. When we find out that they weren't trying to ambush them, what they were trying to do was put in new listening devices and fits all the stuff.

SPEAKER_01 57:55

Right now, did because he Maximus realized, like, I've been got, let me just go back in and get them, because somebody's not gonna get me before they get in, you know, they get a chance. So they um Is it so they get got they get got they kill all of the officers, they kill all of the officers, and then and then that leads, oh my gosh, that was very much a Mr. and Mrs. Smith kind of kind of vibe. So yeah, there's doing that.

SPEAKER_00 58:24

That's when they almost have sex. That's when they're fooling around.

SPEAKER_01 58:27

Yes, because he said, Uh if you shoot me, it will only make me want to fuck you. And then she goes, If you even th or if you even think about it, I will kill you.

SPEAKER_02 58:37

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 58:38

And he goes, and I highlighted this because I loved it so much. Um, he goes, Then I'm already a dead man. And I was like, Yeah! And that's when they fool around. Um and of course they find the picture, and that's that. But he calls Callum and is like, hey, I need warning Callum comes for help. Lyra, right, and Lyra's kind of involved at that point, but not yet. So what happens? She's kind of like in the know of what was supposed to happen.

SPEAKER_00 59:05

So Callum comes over, finds a guard, snipered at them, or listening to Vice, right, gets that guy. Right. They are in the middle of torturing him for space. Yes, she comes in. And she's like, What the y'all don't call, y'all don't write, like nobody tells me anything.

SPEAKER_01 59:23

Which and Callum has tried to keep her out of this part of his life. Right. He's trying to keep it separate. He's thinking she's not gonna love me, like she's gonna think I'm a terrible person. This whole thing is like I'm trying to keep her safe.

SPEAKER_00 59:35

Yes, they all think they're trying to protect these other people. It's not working.

SPEAKER_01 59:38

No, it's not going well for you guys. No. So turns out he, I think he name drops who's in there or she realizes who it is. They had all they had all left the room where he was in and taken a break. They were trying to talk it out. She grabbed the gun and they all forget that they have now new listening devices on this. Right. So at this point, we're all screwed, anyways. So she takes the gun and she shoots shoots the guy between point blank between the eyes. I'm sorry they made me do it. I didn't mean to. And this part made me like ball my eyes out because she's essentially like my dad gave me up when I was 14, and it was just officer on officer on officer. Yeah, so until his mom stopped three months. Right. And the only reason he And nobody had any idea. Oh.

SPEAKER_00 1:00:24

Um so that leads to afterwards, Michael Crumb gets Grayson and Shane. Right.

SPEAKER_01 1:00:31

And is like, hey, Maximus wants to see you right now. Right now. And so Callum's like, I'm on cleanup, I'm gonna just we will meet and we will have this conversation.

SPEAKER_00 1:00:39

We will meet, we'll talk later. Yes, later does not come. Later did not happen. Not for Shade and Grayson.

SPEAKER_01 1:00:47

And that's when it starts to like click. I'm like, they're about to have no idea what's happening. They're gonna be locked up, no food, no water, like nothing. They're strapped to chairs for two days, beaten. Grayson not so much, but Grayson not so much, but she right, and he's having to listen to this, and then his dad's like, Well, who do you think killed your brother? And blah, blah, blah. Trying to oh yeah, yeah, yeah. Trying to pin them against each other, like you can't trust her. She killed her.

SPEAKER_00 1:01:16

Because it comes out like, yeah, she did kill your brother. And she goes, I didn't know. I did not, and Calan would not listen to her. No, and like she Or Grayson wouldn't Grayson wouldn't listen to her. Would not listen. She is having a mental breakdown crying behind her.

SPEAKER_01 1:01:30

Right, like thinking, and he can't even listen to her cry. He feels so bad.

SPEAKER_00 1:01:33

He's like, like, yeah, on one hand, I'm mad at you, but on the other hand, like, uh But he ignores her, and she's trying to talk to him for those whole two days, like after he's like, he just ignores the shit out of her. Right. And you know, they finally get released on the day of the vow.

SPEAKER_01 1:01:51

I was about to say, but you have to go back because while this is happening, no offense to them. I really wasn't worried, I knew they would be alive for the vow, but I'm like, no offense, I'm not really worried about y'all. No, we know. I've got a lot of other variables here going on. So Callum and they are have that conversation about this is what happened to me when I was 14. Yes. He uh I love that he's looking at essentially he's looking at her like this, this must have broken you, like how fragile. And very typical. Like it's understandable, like a pity, like the kind of pity and sadness you feel for somebody in that situation. And I I highlighted this because I loved the way that she put it. Women are the backbone, the foundation, the immovable force that that still does not falter when men stand on our spines to grab power stone, now calamite. I'm not fragile, the cracks in my soul aren't broken places, they're veins cemented together with rage, and it will take more than the hands of men to kill my spirit to break my will. That one online lists. Loved that quote. I was like, yes, this is it, because it's true. It is thousand percent it's true. Um, and I loved his, you know, I'm in awe of you. Like, I'm just lucky enough to stand in your presence. I was like, what a beautiful loved his love confession, which was I love you.

SPEAKER_00 1:03:05

He whispered again the words, a vow, a prayer. I will always love you in this life and whatever comes after that. Very much Zayden Ryerson. Right.

SPEAKER_01 1:03:14

Zada, very Zayd and Ryerson. You are correct, very much giving like, I'm just in awe of you, and if you need to stand on my back and break it to get to the top, like I'm gonna let you.

SPEAKER_00 1:03:25

So between that and then my next note, I have nothing. I was so into this book that I was like, oh, don't worry, we're about to get it. I have more notes. So while all this is happening, we have to go to the cardinal or the battery.

SPEAKER_01 1:03:41

Oh, right. So they kind of Jameson's like, listen, here's what's going on. We are calling me. We need to we need to call a meeting. Everybody who's in charge needs to be in this meeting. Cal he calls Callum, he's like, hey, we need a meeting. Yeah, he's like, we've been working, ghost, we've been working together, like, you know, we need to have a meeting, we need to have a sit-down. So it's Jaeger, it's Pharaoh of the Cardinal. You've got um Ghost Jameson coming in, and you've got Callum. Callum brings Lyra because Lyra's like, this shit ain't happening without me no more. Exactly. I'm sick of y'all. And fair enough, me too. During this whole meeting, they're like, listen, here's what's about to happen. Oh, wait. But wait. But wait, before we get there. Pharaoh's lovely. Pharaoh brings, right, Pharaoh brings in her side piece, who just so happens to be Dr. Brooker, her brother. Yes. So comes out, she's like, How are you alive? She's pissed off, and rightfully so.

SPEAKER_02 1:04:41

Yes.

SPEAKER_01 1:04:42

So turns out he did have a contract out on him, but he it was under a different name. Yes, and he had a lot of different things. He had built this whole alias, alias. He built this whole alias, he was in the boundary, like in Cardinal, like trying to like help help, quote unquote, and grew out his hair, so he was kind of unrecognizable. So when she took out the contract, they did this with the intent of creating that alias.

SPEAKER_00 1:05:12

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:05:13

So he they slit his throat to a certain degree, but somebody was there to extract him and like save him so he didn't die. Yes, but she did not make sure he was drunk. She did not make sure he was dead. Because she was drunk. Because she was drunk. Which is a theme. Let me just say she drinks a lot. Alcoholic. You know, and understandably so. We've got a lot going on here. Not a great coping skill, but uh, you know, do what you do what you gotta do, Queen. Um, so she didn't make sure he was dead. He gets extracted, saved, and is thrown in to create this alias to get them, get them on the his side, and like, and we'll explain what we mean by that in just a little bit. Yeah, gets close to Pharaoh. Gets close to Pharaoh, they build a rapport and a relationship, and he essentially is helping from the inside. So we think. Which, again, couldn't have seen this coming from a mile away. No. So he explains that to Lyra. All of a sudden, you know, you realize Sergeant Michael is in is in this meeting. She's like, what the fuck are you doing here? Right, let me just throw another fucking wrench into this. Right.

SPEAKER_00 1:06:21

God damn it.

SPEAKER_01 1:06:21

Grayson's dad is not his dad. Right.

SPEAKER_00 1:06:25

Maximus is not his dad. Which we find out because Lyra's like, what is why? Why is it? What do you mean protect your son? Right. What do you mean? Like, why do you care? Why are you here? Because he's his son.

SPEAKER_01 1:06:34

Don Don That came out of the state. Again, couldn't have seen that one coming. So we find out that Sergeant Michael is his dad. Yeah. He promised his mom that he would protect them from the inside, like, do what he could to save, save Grayson from any, you know, thing that might happen to him. And he makes good on that eventually. We'll get to that in just a second. So they make a plan. They're like, You're gonna go here and do this. We're gonna cut the like we're gonna switch up the surveillance. Like, Lyra, you're gonna pretend to be the dutiful daughter. Like, it's a whole thing. They're like, we'll extract as many people as we can, we'll put them underground, everything's gonna be fine. Right.

SPEAKER_00 1:07:12

They have bumpers, not bunkers, bunkers. Bunkers, right?

SPEAKER_01 1:07:16

Like we're like, right.

SPEAKER_00 1:07:18

They've got the fucking video feed. Right.

SPEAKER_01 1:07:22

Looping, so that way, you know, it's not we wouldn't, you know, if they look, ah, it's just a quiet day. Right, everything's fine.

SPEAKER_00 1:07:31

Right. Cardinals in the bunker.

SPEAKER_01 1:07:34

Everything's going according to plan. Everything's going too well. It does. Some of the things. And I quoted, and it goes by hour. So for that day, chapter 36, 11 a.m., I highlighted the very last line because I read it and then I s and then I skim uh like switched to the next page. And then I went back and I was like, let me just highlight that because I feel like that's a bad omen.

SPEAKER_00 1:07:55

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:07:56

And it was Calum going, it was going too smoothly.

SPEAKER_00 1:07:58

It was.

SPEAKER_01 1:07:59

So And then this is where we get our bullshit.

SPEAKER_00 1:08:02

It's the day of the vow ceremony.

SPEAKER_01 1:08:04

Yep. So they are basically like they're getting ready. They're like, we have to do this. Everybody's moving in place. Everybody's moving in the place. They have no idea what's going on outside of.

SPEAKER_00 1:08:14

Nobody knows.

SPEAKER_01 1:08:15

Nobody knows. But Grayson and Shade, especially, don't know. Like, this is what's happening. They have no information, no intel. Lyra left them little notes of like, here's what to do, here's your part. So they're basically like out of the loop. They just go to the they get ready for the vow ceremony. They're like, this is you know what we're what we're gonna do. Yeah. We're just gonna make it. As long as we make it through the vow, like who cares? Right. We'll figure what to do after. So then you've got Lyra calling Callum and going, I'm so sorry. I'm so sorry. And I'm going, what do you mean? What do you mean, Lyra? No. Whatever's about to happen is a shit. And this is where it takes the left turn so far. I texted You texted me. Hold on. We can't. I think you said Lyra no. I was asleep at this point, but I knew exactly what you were talking about. Because at the same time, so it's like by the time that I get to this point, it's 11 45 last Sunday. I'm going, I just gotta make it. Because at this point, it's page 536. Yeah. I'm going, okay, I just have to make it. I just have to make it to this last little bit. I'll figure out what's going on. Maybe I'll get some answers. I can go to sleep and wait for the next book. When she says that I'm sorry, I said, What do you mean?

SPEAKER_00 1:09:30

Right. So I tested you. I'm like, Lyra, no. And then I sent you this fucking TikTok that's like, and nothing can go wrong. And then all went wrong. All of it.

SPEAKER_01 1:09:40

So Lyra has they do the vow. They the vow goes off without hitch. She, they are now technically vowed together. And they remove their masks and it comes out underneath their little veil. They remove their masks and they're supposed to be unveiled, remasked, and that's when they're presented as Mr. and Mrs. Grayson Sorrel. Right. Well, turns out in their little notes, Mira does tell them, like, hey, trust Michael. You can trust him. You can trust him. Right. Because he comes to get them for the bow ceremony. So she just leaves them little pieces here and there, not to be too suspicious, but like, here's what I need you to do. So they get the note that's like, don't put your mask back on. So when they unveil, they're not wearing their masks. And turns out she's had a ton of other women in the underground, like removing their masks and standing up and being like and they're like and they're in white slips, so they all undress and they're in like these white slips.

SPEAKER_00 1:10:40

Because we find out, because she's telling Callum, I cannot send her to that.

SPEAKER_01 1:10:45

And we don't know what she means because when Grayson, to Grayson's knowledge versus what her knowledge is. So Grayson explains, he's like, I have to tell you this, this is what's gonna happen. I don't want you to be ill-prepared. So he explains, Oh, we have to consummate air to consummate in front of all these people, icky, that was icky in general. What we didn't know is that that's not the only thing that happens. And Lyra was like, I'm not sending this, it's awful. I'm not sending her to do that. Right. And essentially, it's that everybody who's loyal to the heart, like in Maximus's circle, gets to take a turn with her and Grayson. Including Maximus, including Maximus, we already know Grayson will not stood for that. Nah, that's you you put hands on my wife, you're dying. But it's too early in the book for that.

SPEAKER_00 1:11:31

So we don't know this.

SPEAKER_01 1:11:32

But we don't know this. This is not common knowledge until Lyra straight up says, I wasn't gonna send her to do that. Yeah. Which is when she says, I'm so sorry, and switches off the phone, and it's like, well, Callum's going, I need you, and he calls Pharaoh and he's like, I need you to cut the power right now. I don't know what's happening, I'm locked out. This is when, as a reader, I'm going, ooh, I don't like what's going on here.

SPEAKER_00 1:11:56

And we don't know. I'm thinking, like, oh, she blocked him. I don't think she right, no, no.

SPEAKER_01 1:12:02

So we'll see, we're getting there. Because that's not what happened. She did not block him, she didn't lock him out. She just essentially was like, This is a death sentence to me to send her to. I'm not doing that. I can't in good conscience let this happen. I'm so sorry. That's when it comes to her plan. She changes. She changes. Everyone is in their white slips, they've taken their mask off. She's like, you know, we're the heart, we're its power, and we're taking it back. Which was so good. Have that highlighted immediately. Loved it. She's basically like, I'm not your toy, I'm not your pawn, and neither is she. Women are stronger than you, like, we're taking it back. We are the heart.

SPEAKER_00 1:12:42

Yep.

SPEAKER_01 1:12:43

And her dad's basically like, Well, that was nice, so you gotta sit down so I can tell you what's up. And this is when I started to go, oh my gosh. I started screaming like through this whole last bit, going, You're fucking with me, dog. Because at this point, Callum is Callum is like, cut the power, what's going on? Like running, running to get to her in the heart of the city. So he knocks out a guard, he runs up, he gets stopped by Brooker.

SPEAKER_00 1:13:11

Which we don't know, which we don't know. We're thinking we're not thinking he's stopped. He heard somebody say something, and he keeps running right, and he keeps running. That's all we heard from Callum. Right. Until Lyra goes through all of her things, right?

SPEAKER_01 1:13:24

Lyra like does does all her stuff, and her dad's basically like, that was cool. Anyways, you gotta sit down so I can tell you what's up.

SPEAKER_00 1:13:32

Let the men talk. Pretty much what her dad said.

SPEAKER_01 1:13:35

Gross. Yeah. But that's exactly what it did. He was like, let the let the men talk. And I was like, okay, we'll talk, because I'm I'm about sick of you.

SPEAKER_00 1:13:43

So while all this is going down, Callum does make it.

SPEAKER_01 1:13:50

Callum makes it gunpoint by Brooker. So we have no idea. Brooker's a double agent, which I thought, oh, maybe he's just acting for dad and he's gonna pull out and like I was so like, please, please be good. Please don't do this to me. Because at this point, again, I'm screaming, you're fucking with me, dog. Like this whole time. I'm reading it. It's 1145 at night. I'm screaming into my pillow, going, You're fucking with me. Like, no way, no way.

SPEAKER_00 1:14:21

So Grayson finds out Victor's alive.

SPEAKER_01 1:14:24

Right. He's like, first of all, this is a cluster for Grayson. Grayson's like, wait a minute. Shade's like, wait a minute, I merch you. What's happening? And he's like, I'm gonna have to get you for that one. And they explain, you know, the whole Like you didn't actually kill me. Like you didn't actually kill me. Da-da-da-da-da. Maximus is like, you're weak. You were never my son. Grayson's like, what do you mean? Grayson's like catching stray after stray.

SPEAKER_00 1:14:50

I felt so bad for Grayson. I hear right here said, poor Grayson, his whole life just got flipped upside down. No, literally. I can't believe they played everyone.

SPEAKER_01 1:14:59

No, because they did. It was crazy. So everybody's didn't. Everybody's catching strays. Lyra's like, my plan didn't work. Callum's like, we're fucked.

unknown 1:15:08

Oh my god.

SPEAKER_01 1:15:09

At this point, Maximus is like, yeah, your little rebellion trick that didn't work. I knew this was happening because man on the inside, thank you, Brooker. So at this point, he's like, all your friends have been captured, your plan's done. I'm gonna blow this place to smithereens, like you're all gone. I win, checkmate, and essentially it's it becomes a shootout. Yeah. Except Callum runs to go get to Lero. Oh my god, I touched it. You runs with Callum, no. I so worker point blank shoots in the back of the head. Shoots Callum in the back of the head. Which I was thinking about it on the way here because this is first of all, I started bawling instantaneously. I was like, and at this point I screamed, you're fucking with me, no way. What a bitch move. If you're gonna sh if you're gonna take not only the life of your sister's love, the love of her life, like at least have the decency or you know, the choice to like show make him look at you. Cause like, what a whack ass thing to do. You're a coward and a bitch, and I don't like you, and I hope you get yours in book two. I'm just saying. Yeah. So it's a shootout. Like, Grayson and Shade are like, we gotta do what we gotta do.

SPEAKER_00 1:16:27

She had weapons underneath her dress, so they're just pulled that fucking trigger and shot her dad, his dad in the fucking face. As soon as that cover came up from the back, she would have been fine.

SPEAKER_01 1:16:38

It might have been fine, but I think Brooker was still the variable we weren't, we weren't sure. We weren't gonna know. I still don't know why it played out, but like he's essentially like Callum gets shot, Lyra's running to him, being like having a meltdown.

SPEAKER_00 1:16:52

Which I don't know.

SPEAKER_01 1:16:53

And rightfully so. Like, even I think Grayson described it like that was just first of all, that's his best friend. He's like, he's having a moment, she's having a moment. And Shadra's having to Shadira's like, I don't know what's going on right now, this is crazy to me. What happened? Like her mind's reeling, everybody's like, I'm I'm reeling. I'm like, what are we doing?

SPEAKER_00 1:17:17

What are we doing? I'm just like flipping these face over. Right.

SPEAKER_01 1:17:20

What the fuck? So he's like, get my son off the off the platform now. They take Lyra. She's kicking and screaming like gone. Like they take Brooker, they take Lyra, and Maximus is attempting to A off the child that is now not his son and his wife. Yes. And he goes to sh he's like So the shootout happens.

SPEAKER_00 1:17:44

The shootout happened. Because Drayson is about to pull that trigger to shoot Maximus. Right.

SPEAKER_01 1:17:51

And Michael steps in front of him.

SPEAKER_00 1:17:53

Oh yeah, Maximus about to take him out.

SPEAKER_01 1:17:55

Michael Right. No. Yes. So essentially he's about to take care of what he deems the problem. Yeah. He's like, I've taken care of all my other problems. Let's take care of the 99th problem, and because a bitch ain't one, and we're just gonna go. So he gets his other children off the platform. He's like what makes everybody in heart go home. Right. He's like, Y'all better get inside. Right. Makes everybody else go home. He's like, your little rebellion was cute, go home. Right. So he steps in front of the gun. Unfortunately, Michael dies. Dies.

SPEAKER_00 1:18:31

Grayson's alive. Grayson's alive. This shootout happens between Michael's men and Vera.

SPEAKER_01 1:18:40

The Vera, right. That's what I call them. So Michael had his own little team of men. It wasn't enough people. That happens. A lot of people, you know, Shade's taking them out. Grayson's taking them out. Everybody's trying to fight back. And Michael did they forget about now. Maximus thinks, I've won here. This is it. You're done. He's getting ready to take them hostage. And he's got Grayson, you know, on his on face on the platform. He's like ready to go. I'm taking them captive. Like this is done. And Alara, Grayson's mom, was upset and she hid behind the little like stand that he was using as podiums, the minister. And she gets up, and it's her point of view, which we had not gotten her point of view really the whole time. And essentially, the whole book, she's like quiet, she's trying to like be a voice of reason. Maximus isn't letting her. Maximus is like, the women belong behind here. Why are you speaking out of turn? Like, beats her, like, just puts her down the whole book. And essentially, she's like, I'm gonna have to mourn in silence. Like, this is just gonna be it.

SPEAKER_00 1:19:48

And because we we know Michael is the love of her life. Right. And that's her.

SPEAKER_01 1:19:53

She's like, we never he promised, right? He promised, you know, he'd take care of our child and he did. Lay his life down and he did for this moment. She's right, yeah. So she essentially steps out from behind the podium with a gun. With a gun and points it straight at Maximus, like she takes out a couple, she takes out a couple guards, and they hesitate. And they hesitate because it's right, she's a wife, right? She's the first lady, essentially. Takes them out. She takes them out. After it's done, she looks at Maximus and she's like, Neil. And he's like, What do you mean? I am the have you lost your mind? And I'm like, I hope she did. And she goes, Neil. And he gets down on her his knees, and she's basically like, You know, you never broke me, you never took my strength from me, you never stripped me of my fight. While you were reveling in your power and your illusion of control, I was watching learning, planning. And he's like, What? You killed a few, like guards, you killed a few guards, my son's still alive to carry on my legacy. Like, what did you think was gonna happen? And she, it was the best, she laughed. The sound genuine despite everything. Men never truly understand the meaning of patience. You see, men like you can't comprehend even the concept of suffering, the lesson to be learned in it, especially not in silence. But women, that is all we do. We endure, we wait, we survive. And she's basically like, You destroyed everything. Here I am holding the power, I'm getting the last word. And she and he's like, What are you talking about? Is this is this some justice proclamation, a new order? Like, what do you what are you talking about? And she's like, No. And she goes, Do you know who I am? And he goes, huh? Like, what do you mean? And she's like, Do you know what they call me, Maximus? And he goes, No. And she just grins and she goes, Python, they call me Python. And he's like, but why? Why? And the way she explains it, because I slowly consume my prey. I cut off their life force without ever being noticed until it's too late. This city is my prey. You are my prey. A reckoning is coming for the city brought by my hand, but you will not be here to see it. And she's like, he's like, don't do this. And he starts begging for his life, which is great. Because shut up, bitch. What do you mean? And she's like, these will be my last words to you, Maximus Sorel, she said, cutting off his begging. Mercy does not exist in Newfound Haven. Mercy does exist in Newfound Haven. She pressed the barrel of her gun to his head, just not for you. And then she pulled the trigger. And that's the last line of the book. Yeah. And I'm like having a meltdown. By this point, I'm going, You're kidding me. Like this whole book, she's been in the background. She's been quiet. Like she's been, she has been plotting. She has been planting. She has been like, you know what? I am the rebellion. I am, I am this movement. Yeah. And there's no mercy for you. It's time for you to be shut up. Now that that is the opening line of the book is you can't have mercy anymore. Right. That shows weakness. It shows weakness. And it was so interesting. I was like, what a tie-in. What a way to go about it. So, of course, by the time I end the book, and I'm having a meltdown, I sent HM Wolf up to Oh, I forgot. I you didn't want to hear it. No, she did not. Uh, thankfully, thank God. So when I finish the book, it's about 11:50, it's about 11.50 at night. I'm having a meltdown. I'm texting you at that point that I finished the book, and I I remember. Let me scroll through because it was so good. Let's see, where was it? So I texted you, and I was like, um, we do text a lot. I sent you a bunch of memes too. So at the point that I was 313 pages in, I said, fuck sleep, I need answers. And at 1129 was when it appears I hit the reckoning that happened because I texted you. I said, nah, you're fucking with me, dog. The author of this book and I are throwing hands, and you were like, Did it end on the worf uh cliffhanger? And I said, The worst cliffhanger I've ever been through. She put Rebecca to shame just now. I've been crying and screaming, You're fucking with me, dog, for 20 minutes. Everything just went to shit so fucking fast. Yeah. And I said, I'm so unwell. I couldn't have called that shit from a mile away. They got me so good, and I sent like just a slew of memes. And and then I turned around and I messaged JM Wolf. And I didn't tell you this till you came back to work on Wednesday and you said, I don't want to hear it yet. So I messaged her. I'm so sorry. This was like pure, like I was going through it. So I said, Please, I beg you tell me you're fucking with me, not my Callie. Why? Honestly, I'll hand it to you. I didn't see that shit from a mile away. I feel like I just got shot repeatedly without warning. What a book. You brilliant, devious, but diabolical, brilliant soul, you. I cannot wait for your next one. I'd apologize for this unhinged message, but it's your fault I'm unhinged at midnight when I have to work in four hours. I simply will never get over this. You're truly amazing. Please keep writing forever and ever. I love that. I did. I was like, I'm unwell. I need to tell her I'm unwell. And I'm not sorry. Because again, I never saw that coming. No. Absolutely, absolutely not.

SPEAKER_00 1:25:06

Like that was nuts. It was such a dream.

SPEAKER_01 1:25:09

It was so good. Six stars. Like easily my favorite read of the year. I was like crazy. I love it. I love it. I simply be in agony until the next one. The next one's not till next year. Like I'm in agony. Like, I needed this yesterday. Yeah. I need a conclusion to this like yesterday. It's crazy.

SPEAKER_00 1:25:35

Yeah. But that's. I love it. It was such a good book. But that's our. Can't wait to reread it right before we read the second one. Right? And and will. We will. I will.

SPEAKER_01 1:25:44

And will.

SPEAKER_00 1:25:46

Hopefully listen to it all day.

SPEAKER_01 1:25:47

My sister has not finished it. Uh right. She was gonna be a guest on this episode, but alas, she did not finish it yet. So hopefully she listens to it once she does finish. But um she and I agree, so I hate Maximus more so than I've hated any villain in any book or movie before.

SPEAKER_00 1:26:06

Absolutely.

SPEAKER_01 1:26:06

Um I think he is the worst of the worst, truly. And all he is with is a man with a mouth. Um essentially at the end of the day. Not even a good one. Not even a good one. Uh but man, he put President Snow to shame real fast. I was like, damn! Uh, but she and I agree. So if this were to be made into a movie, I'm just saying Josh Brolin would play a real good villain.

SPEAKER_00 1:26:31

I would love this to be made into a movie.

SPEAKER_01 1:26:33

Oh my gosh, I would die.

SPEAKER_00 1:26:34

Yes.

SPEAKER_01 1:26:35

I'd be in the theaters, like, with my popcorn in my drink, just like buzzing. Just buzzing, boo-hooing, like buzzin' the whole time. That would be such a yeah, I think Josh Brolin would play the best, like Maximus, like villain. Just we agreed. She's like, because I talked to her a little bit after, and she's like, This man sucks. Like, yeah, he does. And he do. I have found my new favorite villain to hate. Like and I hate him. And I hate him, and I feel vindicated that you died at the end of it. Like, you got shot by your own wife who you abused for 90% of the book. Good on her. Good on her. And you didn't even see it coming, which was the best part.

SPEAKER_02 1:27:17

Yes.

SPEAKER_01 1:27:18

You were like, ah, my weak wife won't do anything. It's my weak wife, yeah. Ha! Bang.

unknown 1:27:23

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:27:23

Blights out.

SPEAKER_01 1:27:25

I love it. I'm so excited to see what she does with the rest of it. Like, how do we how do you come back from this?

SPEAKER_00 1:27:33

I can't wait to see because that's what's called Python.

SPEAKER_01 1:27:36

Yes. I'm interested to see how she started. Like, do I I hope we get more of her story, like how she kind of started to move in the shadows. But I'm more curious, how do you how do you get out of this? Like, this is very much reminiscent of catching fire. Like how like you end catching fire and you're like, Well, damn, Catis, how are we gonna get out of this one?

SPEAKER_00 1:27:57

Right, because you saw Booker and then

SPEAKER_01 1:28:00

Right, you have Brooker, you have the Loyalist, you have people in the heart who maybe still agree with it and aren't willing to like let things change. You have the outside of Newfound Haven that he was trying to bring in.

SPEAKER_00 1:28:11

What do you mean they could just gas everybody? Right. So, like, where do we go from here?

SPEAKER_01 1:28:17

So, I don't know. I've got lots of questions and no answers now. But I'm excited for the next one. Definitely six-star read, easily my favorite read of the year. This is one of my favorites. So good. But I think that that's it for us.

SPEAKER_00 1:28:33

It is.

SPEAKER_01 1:28:34

Right. Well.

SPEAKER_00 1:28:35

Oh wait, what are we reading next week?

SPEAKER_01 1:28:37

Next, so next episode, I think we agreed, is Air of Illusion? By Madeline Taylor. By Madeline Taylor. Yes. Who I love. Um, this will be I will be full transparent. This is a reread for me. This was probably Daggermouth just knocked that one out. Because remember, I told you that I think Air of Illusion was my favorite read of the year, and I think Daggermouth just came and was like knocked it over and said, Nope, not a chance.

SPEAKER_00 1:28:59

This one has a hell of a fucking left field ending too, doesn't it? Yes.

SPEAKER_01 1:29:04

I was on a plane reading this one, and I read it. Like 10 o'clock at night. I texted you as soon as I got off the plane. I was like, I can't even I couldn't even make a peep. It's like 10 o'clock at night. I'm trying to get home from Michigan. Like, I'm just having a meltdown on the plane, holding my Kindle, going, Oh my god! Like, what do you mean? What do you mean? So I'm excited to see what you think of this one. I'm excited to reread it. It's been since January 2nd that I have not picked this book up, so I'm excited to see to see what my thoughts are on my reread for sure. Because I definitely was like shocked the first go-around. I was like, what do you what do you mean? So I'm interested to see if a reread I can see it kind of coming, and I don't, I don't think I can. Yeah. So we'll see.

SPEAKER_00 1:29:53

Well, hell yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:29:54

Alright, well, we will see you guys next time.

SPEAKER_00 1:29:58

It's becoming a Mike's super short shirt. Right.

unknown 1:30:02

What did you say?

SPEAKER_00 1:30:04

You've never seen it was a Disney thing.

SPEAKER_01 1:30:06

No Mike's super short shirt. Yes, yes. Okay, I thought that's what you said, and I was like, is that what I think?

SPEAKER_00 1:30:11

This is not a super short show. No, it was not.

SPEAKER_01 1:30:13

This might be our longest episode, and I'm not even sorry. We're not sorry. We had a great time.

SPEAKER_00 1:30:17

It's not intend with the Rain and Can episode.

SPEAKER_01 1:30:19

Yes, that was a long one for sure.

SPEAKER_00 1:30:21

But this one I feel like one of our best episodes. Really? Yes. You think so? Uh yeah, the statistics do not lie.

SPEAKER_01 1:30:28

Uh speaking of the statistics before we go, I'm so glad you brought that up. Apparently, a lot of men listen to us. So we're getting better. And I just want you to know that if any of my exes listen to this. Thank you so much for your support and undying love.

SPEAKER_00 1:30:41

But I'm no, it's just like the men are just in the like 25 to no 35 to 44 category.

SPEAKER_01 1:30:48

So then it can't be anybody. How many younger men are listening to this? It can't be anybody I've dated then. Did I? No, yeah. No, it can't be, because if it was like 20 to 25 or like 25 to 30, I'd definitely be like, ah, my old friends are coming back because they they're curious as to what I'm doing. And again, thank you for your undying love and support. Everybody who's listened to us, we're so grateful.

SPEAKER_00 1:31:16

We are. I love it.

SPEAKER_01 1:31:17

I love it. Alright, well, we've rambled not even rambled, we've unpacked a lot here. We did, a lot of them. So we will see you guys in the next one. Yes, bye. Bye.