$0.62 in the Bank To A Thriving Door Business | Feat. Jay Bergfeld

Jay Bergrfeld spent years as a handyman before he made the call most people are too nervous to make: he niched all the way down. Today he runs Jay's Door & Trim in Castle Rock, Washington, a rural market where everyone says you have to do a little bit of everything. Jay did the opposite, and it worked.

In this episode, Jay sits down with Jason and Coby to talk about the full journey. He gets honest about the transition from Jay's Handyman Service to a door, trim, and custom carpentry specialist, including the gut-check moment when he had $0.62 in his bank account and decided to keep going anyway.

What we get into:

• Why starting broad as a handyman is the smart way to build relationships before you narrow your focus
• How niching down actually changed his lead flow and the quality of his jobs
• The box truck investment he wishes he'd made sooner
• Why he refuses to hide behind a logo, and how being real on Facebook drives his business
• Staying level-headed and even-keeled as the real common denominator of business owners who last
• The homeless pressure washer who reminded Jason what this work is really about

If you're listening in the van right now and you've been thinking about putting more focus on one service, this one's for you. Jay shows what it looks like to follow your gut, serve people first, and let the work speak.

Connect with Jay on Facebook: Jay's Door & Trim (Jay Bergfeld)

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New episodes of the Home Hero Podcast every week. If you got value from this one, subscribe and leave a review. It helps more home service pros find the show.

👉Schedule a free, no-pressure strategy call: go.handymanmarketingpros.com

👉Grab the free 3-in-1 Handyman Playbook Bundle: go.handymanmarketingpros.com/playbook-form

👉Connect with us:
💻Website: handymanmarketingpros.com
✉️Email: sales@handymanmarketingpros.com

New episodes of the Home Hero Podcast every week. If you got value from this one, subscribe and leave a review. It helps more home service pros find the show.

Transcript

SPEAKER_03 0:00

Yeah, there's a saying a man without a smile should not open a shop. So you know what I mean? So if you don't have a personality to to if you don't have a pleasing personality and you're just you don't want to hear someone's story, then it's it might not be the best business to be in as far as home service or home improvement because you gotta be willing to listen to people's stories. And if that if that was a piece of advice, I'd say absolutely would be just be a good listener.

SPEAKER_01 0:36

Welcome to another episode of the Home Hero Podcast. Today we are joined by Jay with Jay's door in trim. Um, he is a door repair installation replacement specialist that started as a handyman. Uh, of course, that's how we met. Um, we've known each other for coming up on five years. Um, so this episode is all about uh learning from Jay, his story, his experience, uh, his niche focus. Um super excited to have this conversation. Jay, thank you so much for joining us, man. Uh, if you don't mind just kicking us off with uh, you know, your business name, uh, where you're located, um, and we'll go from there.

SPEAKER_03 1:16

Yeah, absolutely. So um my name is Jason, but I go by Jay. Go figure. And then so Jason Bergfeld, uh, my business is Jay's Doors and Trim out of Castle Rock, Washington. And um yeah, like Jason said, I started out as Jay uh handyman. My business was Jay's handyman service. Uh did that for four years straight, and then immediately decided, well, I'm gonna try a niche thing, a specialization, and switched over to Jay's Doors and Trim. Uh so therefore, I've been self-employed for eight years. Uh recently, about six months ago, my wife quit her full-time job at uh the uh paper mill slash lumber mill here in town uh to go full-time with me. And she uh she's all things office management, CSR, CFO. She wears a lot of hats.

SPEAKER_00 2:18

And that's been really our most recent uh adventure. Awesome, awesome.

SPEAKER_01 2:24

So if you could kind of take us back, man, like how did you start um your like what was the original starting story of like your handyman business? And then would love to hear like how you landed on doors as your niche focus about four years ago now. Um and I also want to point out to our listeners that uh Jay is located in Castle Rock, Washington, and it's a rather rural part of Washington. Um, and he has a 100% niche focus. Um, so like I love your story and what you've done, Jay, because like people think that, oh, I'm in a small town, I can't, I gotta do everything. Um, and so anyway, not to go too far off the beaten path here, but if you could kind of take us back eight, nine years ago, um, like how did you originally start as a handyman business and then you know kind of narrow into doors?

SPEAKER_03 3:13

Yeah, uh like you said, about eight, nine years ago. So if we went to nine years ago, I was a foreman. Uh I was in the carpenter's union, and so I was a union carpenter foreman for a pretty large company in our area at a paper mill. And uh that was going really good. It got slow. And as a carpenter by trade for lifetime carpentry, uh, it can get slow. So side work, doing side work and uh to keep to keep things floating financially, and um I just I was like, you know what, I like working for homeowners a lot, and then I was like, well, I've always wanted to do a business. I love commercial work in my career that I've had in the union, but something was calling me to go work for homeowners like indefinitely. Um, so I was doing a lot of side work on that last run and um went back to work for a little bit, and I was just like, I gotta, I gotta go for it. And then so I told my boss, I was like, hey, I'm gonna start a business, and he's like, okay, you know, and uh, but I went for it and uh hit the ground running with plenty of work um as handyman, but otherwise I had a 15-year career in the carpenter's union and uh born and raised carpenter though. So born and raised carpenter with my dad as a cabinet maker, went to job core for the uh pre-union apprenticeship for carpentry, got out of there at uh 19 and joined the union. Um so just a main thing about me is that I'm a carpenter, carpenter at heart, and that's like in my blood what I want to do and what I'm doing.

SPEAKER_01 5:12

Awesome. That makes sense about the door transition, man. You just like probably doing all this handyman stuff, and you're like, I gotta get back to just that more like where your heart's at. Um, I'm sure like I know you have interviewed a lot of people over the years, and um that that kind of jumping point from leaving your job and going full-time as a business owner. Um, I don't think I've talked with anyone that was so passionate about their career, but it must have been nice to kind of almost augment your career to kind of forge your own path rather than you know, it like scratch that carpenter itch through your job.

SPEAKER_03 5:49

Yeah, uh keep in mind, like with this, my story, is I started out as a handyman self-employed. I started my self-employed career as a handyman, Jay's handyman service. But you know what? That whole time I specialized in carpentry. You know what I mean? So, like within handyman, you can pick what you want to do, and you can still niche. Um so I focused on carpentry at first. I got plumbing calls and electrical. I'm in Washington. You can't even look at an outlet unless you're a licensed electrician and stuff, or you can't change a faucet, and and that's okay. So I'm just like, people are gonna expect me to do that, and I did. It was it was like um word does spread like wildfire, especially in a smaller town. We're not too small, but word does spread, and oddly enough, it took a couple years, but at first I was getting so many phone calls um for plumbing and electrical. I'm like, I can't, and then I said no so much that eventually I quit getting those phone calls. People, oh Jay doesn't do plumbing electrical. So I was able to stay carpentry based as a handyman. Um, and oddly enough, my dad was like, you're not gonna why handyman. My dad was like, handyman, you're not gonna do any of the uh finished carpentry or high-end carpentry jobs for people because you know, handyman, and he didn't get it. And I was like, it's gonna work, it's it's gonna open up a lot of doors. Hey, punt intended, right?

SPEAKER_00 7:33

So I definitely did, man.

SPEAKER_03 7:35

And uh he high-end finished carpenter, he worked uh on projects for Street of Dreams, which is if uh I won't go into that, but it's a huge big deal for um high-end finished work. But uh it's like he was doubtful, pretty doubtful, and that's that's its own topic, too, is you gotta have people around you that believe in what you're doing, and I was counting on my dad to be that person, and he wasn't dad very much and like but it's almost like I didn't I didn't go out to prove him wrong, it just happened, you know. It's like, oh well that look, this is crazy. So I built an entire kitchen, cabinets. Um, I was doing high-end finish work, like pretty remarkable that I was getting such quality leads to do advanced high-end finished carpentry work the whole time. So that was really cool, and it worked out, and then but the consistency was was hard on me. Yeah, like you said, um wanting to just be carpentry on the on the leads, the leads consistency and uh it can be it, it's not easy to do handyman, so my hat's off to any of them that are doing it, and you have to have a lot of energy. You have to have that energy to be doing all all things, contracting, handyman, building one day you're building a deck, the next day you're doing concrete, the next day you're doing drywall. Those are a whole series of tools, thousands and thousands of dollars of tools, and they're and you can't have one truck that fits all of those tools. So every single day you gotta reorganize and stuff. And I enjoyed that. I enjoyed working after work, organizing the truck. It's like a kid with Legos or toys, like you know, playing in the dirt with trucks and stuff. Uh it's the same thing with tools.

SPEAKER_01 9:41

And I can see that visual for you as Jay the handyman, you know, just like a kid in the backyard in the sandpit, you know.

SPEAKER_03 9:49

Yeah, only it's the pickup truck back and then tools and keeping them organizing. And but you're after four years, uh it's not that my energy wasn't there, but something was another calling was calling me, like to do something a little bit different, and then the consistency, because I had a daughter uh when I started my business, so newborn baby in a newborn business, and it's like to be able to spend family time, I was like, I gotta figure out some consistency so I'm not spending two hours every evening organizing tools for the next day's work. And then, but uh to fast to quickly just jump right to it. That's exactly what happened when I specialized in one thing in a few things, is the van I have now, all those tools are in there. I get home from work, I can park and go in the house. I'm done. I and I don't have to think, or in the morning, I don't have to think, oh, do I got my sawzah with me, or do I got that rotor hammer with me? You know, um traveling tools for concrete. Like, you know, I don't have to think, I just jump in the van and I go. I gotta keep it organized, clean. But it uh so that was pretty cool.

SPEAKER_01 11:08

So so let's let's point to that that transition four years ago, uh, when you switched from Jay's handyman service to Jay's door and trim. Um, like what sparked that, you know, just going for it, ripping the band-aid off, and and you know, the full rebrand and being way more strict on what you're doing, what you're not doing. Like, take us back to that time. Like, uh, what did that transition look like?

SPEAKER_03 11:34

Um it hit me like a ton of bricks. It hit it like seriously, like just my chest beating. Like, what if all I did was doors? And I was just I thought about it for a moment and I was like, huh. And I thought about it on the rest of the way home. By the next day, I was like, wow. I was just blown away with the idea. And um, I just my gut, you know, you gotta go with your gut and your intuition. And I I had a career, like I say career, I did two years of nothing but doors um and tram in the union. So commercial doors, hospital schools, churches, high-rise buildings, miles and miles of tram. Um, I did a lot of f high-end finish work, wall paneling, um, and commercial doors are way different than residential doors. Uh, that's its own topic, too.

SPEAKER_01 12:31

You gotta pick one or Toby nodding his head there.

SPEAKER_03 12:34

Way different. Okay, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 12:35

Way different.

SPEAKER_03 12:36

Yep. And I have the skills, experience to do any and all of those panic bars, flush rods, magnetic uh fire code, um the closers, different kinds of closers. I have all that knowledge. So within business, you hear like it's sometimes better to just specialize with one or the other. Don't do commercial and residential. Pick one and run with it. There's a little area to where there's a little wiggle room, in my opinion, but for the most part, just I chose to pick one and run with it. Residential, and a lot of it too is residential. Like, you got oak grain textured, fur grain textured, smooth, mahogany grain textured, a bronze threshold, uh, a mill finished threshold, adjustable, fixed, ADA threshold, um, different jam widths, different like in it, and like I'm just spouting off quickly, like so much product for doors that to increase sales on any given handyman doing doors would be knowing all that stuff. As a handyman, I did get a lot of leads for door replacements and stuff. And as a career carpenter, it seems pretty straightforward and easy to do a door, but what's not easy is measuring a door and getting all the bells and whistles correct. So I knew that if I specialized in doors, what if I got really good at the sales of doors and going through the different options? Because that's what I noticed people most wanted, is that they either have experience trying to order their own door or they uh they look into it a little bit, and then there's the options can be daunting, so they'd rather have someone come to their house and present all that stuff, and that if you don't know, then it's you're you're losing the trust from the customer. And um I got really interested in all that stuff, the different options with doors. So above just the install, the sales department of the industry, um, there's it's in demand in home sales of doors and trim.

SPEAKER_01 15:04

And um, yeah, because there's like big doors and windows is a huge niche. Like, obviously, there's national nationwide door and window franchises and companies that are advertising across the market because it's a pretty scalable service. Um, but they obviously have their sales process dialed in with showing all the products and the overwhelming amount of options that homeowners just they don't know. And so it just hits on. I love how you looked at the value there of like I can not only instore install the door, but I can use my expertise and part of the client experience, like educate them and have a nice sales presentation that kind of informs them and makes sure that they're super confident. Because I know doors aren't the cheapest thing in the world as far as you know, replacing in your home, um, whether for function or design. Um so leading up to that transition, Jay, like it was kind of a it was a gut feeling, like you, you're you're carpenter at heart, you know, your dad was even like, oh, you're a handyman. How are you gonna do your carpentry stuff? So um what was that transition like as far as like did you let all your clients know beforehand and um just got strict on the service you're doing, or did you rebrand and did you have like wiggle room on doing some handyman projects at first? Because obviously, when you niche down, there's less volume of projects, right? Because it's like, oh, I cannot entertain the ceiling fan swaps or the TV mounts, like we're just doing doors and trim and custom carpentry. So, what was that like from the lead flow perspective and communicating to clients? Like, uh, what was that like in that transition? Because I it must have been, you know, some learning experiences in there.

SPEAKER_03 16:41

Yeah, yeah. So that's a very important part of my story, this story. Uh, and I did I so I kind of veered off there for a second a little bit, but that's uh very important, and uh it's pretty cool uh to to go back and think about and explain, tell that story. But what it was like at first was gut feeling and then brainstorming, planning, developing a little bit, but mostly just going for it and then going all in, going all in to the point of like I don't know if it's gonna work out, but we'll find out, you know what I mean? So sometimes you just gotta just go for it, and uh to the point I knew that the best way to make it work, because at first, like the first several weeks, I'd get a phone call for a small porch to be built, or um, you know, a handyman task from a regular customer, because I had a lot of regular customers, uh, and I was like, yeah, okay. And I was doing those to f keep my schedule going and keep my income going. But then while I was building a deck or a porch, I'd get a phone call for uh a door replacement because I rebranded, like you said. So I rebranded, changed the Google page, the Facebook page, and everything. So I started to get a little bit of calls with doors, but I was busy booked out like two, three months. And that's something to note that if you doors for whatever like handyman, you can get to that two-month area, and people are okay with it if you're highly recommended. Three months, depending on what project it is, and if you're recommended anything past three months, it's like, oh no, and then that's not good because even the you know, people kind of can quit referring you too because then you're so busy.

SPEAKER_01 18:43

But great insight, great insight there, Jay. Thanks for sharing that. Totally agree, and we've you know seen that over the years with uh you know clients, no matter what market they're in. That's a very accurate assessment, especially owner operator, they get Jay's time, right?

SPEAKER_03 18:55

That's yeah, right, yeah. So, what I noticed with doors is it's it's about a month. Once you start saying, hey, we're about four weeks out, booking rate goes down from that, more so than general um remodels. Remodels are a little bit bigger and stuff, so they they can kind of see that. But um, where am I going with this? Just uh people like to be around two weeks out. So I was doing handyman work still. I was trying to do kind of both, and then I was booked out too far. And I was like, you know what? I'm gonna I'm just gonna say no to any handyman work to the point of needing work badly, no money, worried if we're gonna make it, and getting a phone call from a really good customer, Jay. I want, you know, can you build this porch? No. What do you mean? And I tell them, like, hey, I'm specializing in doors and tram. They're like, well, maybe you can just do this one task and then and I was like, yeah, I was like, and it was one of the hardest things to ever go through was no, get off the phone. And I remember our power bill was like, we got the notice where, like, hey, we're doing the shutoff thing coming up here real soon. Literally, no money in the count, like 62 cents. Power bill is about to get off, and I had a really good customer, and I got off the phone denying income. I'm like, wow, what am I doing? You know, but I had faith. I was like, I don't know, it's gonna work out. Next day, phone call. Hey, I need a door replacement. Went and did the job, and then uh I just getting so to transition from handyman or general contracting to a specialized service, the transition, you've already built up customers and and clientele. So to transition is I I think and I knew, in my best and known opinion, was to just go all in, to get really good at saying no to everything and just go in. Don't one foot over here and one foot over there. Because that I knew that the free time I had by saying no to a porch or other work or cabinets, the free time I would gain from that would I would put that energy into the door business. Otherwise, I was just always gonna be busy not working on the business, working on the door design business, and um so getting good at saying no.

SPEAKER_01 21:28

Yeah, it's nothing um like I definitely can relate whenever I left my job. I mean, uh my career, my income, like I had nothing coming in, but I knew that I just needed that focus and it was kind of that gut thing, right? I probably should have done more preparation. Um I'm grateful, man. I've oh go ahead, Kobe.

SPEAKER_02 21:47

I'm cut I'm cutting you off, Jason. When you when you decided to make that that jump into niche down and and specialize, was was it more a factor of this is the type of work. That I want to do that I enjoy more? Was it more a factor of I think there's a good business opportunity here? There's more room for for profit or better systems in in place. So, you know, was it more like a personal thing of this is what I want to do on a daily basis, or is it a like a business decision in that I I think this is a better vehicle to build a business around?

SPEAKER_03 22:21

I'd answer that with all of the above. And if I had in the way you put it, uh a business decision, mostly a business decision, all about business and consistency. So no, it is personal. I I do it then I loved doing doors, and I was like, I wish I did more doors, you know. I really like it, and I like doing the doors in the union, commercial doors. So it was definitely a personal decision, like I would really enjoy that, but mostly when with everything you just said was exactly the way I seen it, consistent, and to to use one word would be consistency for me, the business, and and the consistency, what I can deliver to the customer, and that eventually it would just be a smooth little system. Um pricing, consistent pricing, um business decision mostly to see what that would be like.

SPEAKER_01 23:26

Is that what what did is that similar to you, Kobe, whenever you transition to full-on remodels, or was it just more of like, hey, I'm getting a lot of these projects and I can charge more for it? Like, was it less calculated? I'm just kind of curious if there's some overlap there.

SPEAKER_02 23:39

Yeah, no, my my decision to go from read uh from from handy man to remodeling was way less calculated. Um, it was it was like, man, these projects are saxy and the the numbers bigger, let's do more of these. Um ended up being less efficient, more headaches, um, and in a pain in the butt, but no, I was way less calculated. But that's yeah, that's why I asked that question. Um curious.

SPEAKER_03 24:04

That was a good question, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 24:06

So um uh down to 62 cents, Jay. I commend your heart, man, and your perseverance. Uh I I cannot match that. I did have two digits of dollars in my account, uh above zero, less than a hundred, uh, but sixty-two cents. I just commend your perseverance because most entrepreneurs have have those experiences multiple times in their journey of like down to you know not much money, and you've got bills to pay. So anyway, I can't I can't understate, man. I just appreciate that that courage that you had and that in that making that transition. I want to ask, like, what would you have done differently in the transition uh from handyman to uh the door specialization? And then from there we'll start diving into the more details of your of the business and how you're running things.

SPEAKER_03 24:56

Um I mean that was the most important part. Like, what would I do differently? But if I was to reverse engineer that and do what would I do exactly the same? Is I would do that exactly the same as get really good at saying no to other jobs and go all in. So don't put all your eggs in one basket is a is a slogan, right? But I it's the other way around. Definitely put all your eggs in one basket, is is in my opinion when you're gonna transition. So transitioning, just go for it. Um applied faith is huge, like you have to have that applied faith and truly believe it's gonna work out to the full full extent and have no negativity to it. Um and what you think you create. Um, so if you believe it's gonna work, it will work. And so applied faith and just going all in, put all your eggs in one basket. But what I would do differently, um pickup truck. I tried to make it work with a pickup truck. I kind of knew it wasn't going to. Um and I I my me and my wife kind of refrained from buying a commercial vehicle, a box truck, and um, because it's you know the the monthly payments and just is it gonna really expedite, is it gonna is it gonna um improve our business exponentially, you know? Uh we can we can make it work with the pickup truck and doing that too long at first because the handyman work it did work pretty good out of the pickup truck. There's some days that it can be uh tiring because you're reorganizing the pickup truck and the rain. I live in Washington, so we got a lot of rain. Um but eventually I was like, I know it's gonna work with that pickup truck or with the with the box truck. So at any level of thought, they're owning a box truck, whatever business you are in, is absolutely the best decision I have ever made in business out of eight years.

SPEAKER_02 27:18

Box trucks are awesome. Going from a pickup truck to a box truck is awesome. Especially you get one. We had an old uh U-Haul, we bought a used U-Haul and got a good deal on. Um, but I mean you can stand up all the way in there if it's raining, you can throw your miter saw on the back, you can work out of the back of it. It's box trucks are awesome. But you you brought up a like a good point about, you know, kind of putting it off like we can make this work. Um, and when you're making those sorts of like financial decisions in the business, um a lot of times it comes down to you know, how does this purchase spending this money actually lead to making more profit, more money on the bottom line? Um, or is this like a quality of life um type of type of purchase? Um is this gonna make me more efficient where you know I'm actually gonna make more money more than what I'm paying for the vehicle? Um, or is it worth it to me just because it's a you know it's a quality of life thing and I'm not gonna you know dread loading at the back of the pickup truck every every morning or evening or um you know, whatever that looks like.

SPEAKER_01 28:21

So the box truck is both. It's a it's a big win. What what are the specifics of the box truck? Because we have never talked about, we've never went in the weeds on a box truck in in our podcast interviews. So what what about this was just a game changer? Because I mean, of all the things, Jay, like you like, or what do you have done differently? You know, and your mind wandered, and it was like, okay, I would have done a lot the same, but you know what? I wish I got that box truck sooner. And then Kobe chimed in of like, oh yeah, the box truck. So what specifically might someone consider, you know, making making this investment? Like, why was it such a big impact for you?

SPEAKER_03 28:54

Um, efficiency is number one, it just it's so much more efficient, and that so you're gonna make more money, it's gonna pay for itself, like unbelievably well it paid for itself. There is no, if anything from this podcast, there is no better decision than to get a box truck. Hey, how was how was the podcast with Jay? Like, what was a takeaway? Box truck, and like it is huge.

SPEAKER_02 29:23

It's it's a it's amaz it, it's they're they're huge, and and we put it off for a while too. We started with you know, pickup truck, and then another pickup truck, then a trailer, then another pickup truck, and then we finally got a box truck, and even it's so much better than even having the the the trailer. Um, but how I I sort of justified it and ended up being true like, hey, how is this actually gonna add money to the bottom line? We spent so much less time having the guys running back to the shop to grab tools or equipment they forgot or just didn't think they were gonna need that day. Because we could just fit everything in the box truck. It was a rolling workshop. Um so that's how it saved us money instead of the guys, you know, oh I didn't think we were gonna need the mitersol, we gotta run back to the shop and grab it and drive back to the job site when you got employees, they tend to drive a little slower, you know, during during the day. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 30:17

Box trucks are awesome. Yeah, non-billable hours.

SPEAKER_01 30:21

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 30:22

Well, great other thoughts on the box truck. Oh, sorry, go ahead, Cobe. Yeah, I was just uh, you know, as far as like Jason asked what you would have done differently, if anything, I'm curious to know. Do you think it would have worked out the same way or you would have been as successful if you would have started out doing doors and trim from the beginning versus starting with with handyman work and transitioning?

SPEAKER_03 30:43

Kind of not. Um it would be like being a new guy in town. Like if you just move to a different town, that's one of the harder startups because you have no you have less community, people that know you. It's a little harder to build the trust. So um the doors, it's like because even even now I get people like just doors. It's like wow, you know, that's uh yeah, and um it's it's neat. Um I think it would have been a very way harder. So that's what I had going for me. That's a good question because I knew I don't want to say hundreds, but a couple hundred, a hundred people, whatever it was at that time. Um, it made it easy for mark for the beginning phase of marketing, and would you know you can call past customers or send emails to past customers like, hey, I'm doing this now, I'm doing a door business now. I appreciate all your business in the past. Uh, if you know anybody that needs a door, just a little brief email, so that's a good marketing strategy. And um, and it sparked up some work right away. Um, I think the main thing to to to go all in on a specialty is very it's doable. Um like any business, um, knowing people to help you start is important. Uh asking friends, hey, I this or just letting friends know, hey, I'm starting a business, this is what I do, and then doing work for them, getting those pictures, traditional business startup, um, same same, I think. But yeah, less lead flow at first. So when I switched to just doors, that first year was very slow with leads. The second year got way better. About two and a half, three years in, I was like, this is so cool. So many. Every day my phone rings with hey, I need a door. And now four years in, um, we're getting um a good amount of leads, plenty of leads. Um, I'm not sure. Marketing, branding. Um, I think branding and your logo on your vehicle appearance is huge for a start for startup, for any startup.

SPEAKER_02 33:07

The reason I ask that is you you hear a lot of um you know big so-called business gurus that say, you know, you should you should niche down, you should be, you know, hyper niche and and focused, and then and then expand out after you're systematized and processed, then maybe you add a service and add a service and expand from there. By the way, my Yeah, in my in my experience in the real world, typically, you know, you're you're starting broader and then you kind of figure out what your niche should look like. Because if you're going into a blind, especially if you've never had a business before, you don't know what your niche should be. You don't know what you don't know. Um, and so I think more often than not, it's it's starting kind of broad. You can get a little bit more volume, you can learn what you like, learn what works, niche down, get that systematized, and then if you want to expand back out, you can start kind of branching, branching out from there. Um, just just curious your your your thoughts on that. But I think you're kind of on par with um, you know, mo most people that end up niching down is is starting out a little bit broader.

SPEAKER_03 34:07

Yeah, you nailed it. Absolutely.

SPEAKER_01 34:10

Um that's uh one thing I say to people, like, especially if they want to niche down or if they um should just start with remodeling or transition to full remodeling, if that should be their focus. That's a common question that we get because a lot of handyman guys, you know, Kobe knows the first temptation is oh, I should do remodels. I'm getting asked about bathrooms and kitchens. And I, you know, I could probably make a lot of money and get two weeks on the calendar booked. So one thing that's really important is that uh, you know, being a handyman, you're maximizing the volume of leads. And I like to say maximizing relationships because as you experienced, Jay, over four years, you had hundreds of relationships, contacts, people that know you, like you, trust you, refer you, they call you. And that's a huge asset to build that up. And so I love how Kobe said too, in real life, um, you know, starting broader and narrowing down is is realistic. Um, it it doesn't make the nicest, you know, YouTube headline, I guess, to grab someone's attention for business, like, oh, just start a door business and make 20,000 a month or whatever it may be. It's like, you know, you got to build up that rapport in your community and anyone that's handy. A handyman's a great way to maximize relationships. And I had this personal experience myself in in websites and marketing. When I first left my job, you got to pay the bills. And so if someone wanted some online marketing or websites, no matter what niche, um, I helped them. Um, but it it taught me that the value of focus. And so um I would agree too with you guys that um that starting broad, maximizing relationships, leads, building that reputation uh is a nice foundation to then start to narrow down that service offering. Um so great, great comments there, guys. Um one thing I had to note, I can't leave this out, Jay, is applied faith. I love that, man. Um, one of my uh takeaways, I forget who I got it from or what book, but um in your prayer and your meditation, your thoughts, like to actually like state like I believe that this is possible. Um, like I I believe that we're gonna make this happen. Uh, I think there's a lot of power in applied faith. I haven't heard it expressed like that. So I just I wrote it that down, man, and it's right next to down to 62 cents and applied faith. And here you are six months ago, your wife left her job and is work in the office. And so I just love that, man. Uh love it so much. Um, so let's get into the nuts and bolts here. So we kind of naturally were talking a little bit about marketing. Um, so what does your marketing look like for residential door focus? Um, obviously, you've been working together for a number of years, but um uh like what are you doing for marketing? Where are most of these like niche door leads coming from?

SPEAKER_03 37:01

Uh I got it, I got that metric. Um we track where our leads come from. Yeah. So otherwise, I got my website with you. So a really good website is huge. Uh it needs to work fast when you're scrolling up and down. Like, even if you're clumsy about it, you like you get to the website and you go scroll, scroll, scroll, scroll to the bottom, and you go scroll, scroll up, and you don't plan on being there very long. If that thing, if that thing glitches, you're more likely to want to leave that website, right? But so that's what I'm saying is like the website you got me from day one all the way through. There's no glitch, it's fast. So, where do I get my leads? What's my marketing? That website is huge, it gives people a go to build trust. Uh I know I do. If I hear about a company, I search for them on Google, they got a Google page, they got a website. They don't have to have it's uh your Google page and your website is more important than your Facebook. If all you have is Facebook, that's neat. When I go to build up my list of contractors that I recommend, if they don't have a Google page and a website, it's it's kind of a turnoff for me. I'm less likely to want to put them on my list to recommend because not everybody has Facebook, uh, especially the uh baby boomers. I mean, they do, don't get me wrong, everybody does now, but sometimes they don't use that as a tool like they do yellow. Someone told me they found me in the yellow pages, but they meant Google. This older gentleman, he's like, Yeah, I found you in the the yellow pages, and I was like, No. But I didn't I didn't say anything. He he meant Google. Yeah, so yeah, it's like you gotta have your Google page and your website, then your social media, and and with that, get really good, my opinion is to get really good at one or two social medias before you expand having all of them. Like like I get I put all my heart and soul into my Facebook. I opened up an Instagram, like, uh, I don't want to. I know you can set it up where they cross-post the same thing. I I'm not there yet to where I've done that, but I just get really good at one social media, and that's I don't get a lot of leads directly from Facebook, but they verify. That's kind of what I'm getting at is you gotta build trust through several points of verification. They find you on Facebook, they click on your website link, and then they go to Google. Oh, he's he's on Google, and then the reviews. So that's so uh we get most of our leads from Google and then referrals, and then it falls off pretty quickly to low percentages of other things after that.

SPEAKER_02 40:02

Um yeah. I I like the way you said uh the verbiages, you said you put all your heart and soul into into Facebook. Um because Facebook is the place to kind of you can you can really express the heart and soul of the business and and some personality on there, um and and express that you're you know a local, you know, community-based business, and um, like I said, just kind of express some of that personality, stuff that's a little bit more um casual, where people can feel like they get to know the business a little better, as they're doing some of those um, as you said, like verification of of the business. They might find you on Google or checking out your reviews, checking out your website. Um especially people are gonna be doing a bigger project, they're gonna they're gonna be spending more money, they're gonna be looking at you kind of all over the place, um, doing their due diligence. And and Facebook's a great place to, you know, as you said, kind of put your heart and soul of the of the business.

SPEAKER_03 40:58

Yeah, with that, uh people want to see your face. Uh that'll be tell your story, show your face, don't hide behind your logo. I've heard someone say that, and I was like, oh yeah, well, I kind of know that it's a no-brainer, but for some people it's not a no-brainer, and so sometimes it's good to hear that. Don't hide behind your logo. And if it's not you, because you know, some people open a business and they never operate in the business as the craftsmen, they hire craftsmen from the get-go, and so they're never actually doing the work, they're running the business, hiring employees. So if you don't want to be on camera as the owner, the spokesman, or whatever, get your employees to be on camera. So that's huge. Like, that's one of the that's also something I do as a consumer or looking at other contractors. I'll go to a Facebook page. Oh, this is cool, a nice business. And one of the first things I subconsciously do without realizing it is I scroll down to a post and I I scroll, scroll, scroll until I see a person's face. Like, and so if I do that subconsciously, everybody does that, and sometimes there's these businesses with no faces at all. I tend to leave or not remember them as much. But the but the business is where you go to and they're doing uh employees spotlights, pictures of their guys or crew, men and women working, that's huge. That's what people want to see. So to be a human and passionate and put tell your story is huge.

SPEAKER_01 42:44

Yeah, that's really good stuff, man. Um, and authenticity is huge for for SEO, for ranking and recommended AI. Um, like it's something that whenever I do trainings or anything, I have a whole slide on authenticity and a bunch of photos of uh clients on their website and in front of their work vehicle on the job. Um you know, algorithms, people like they want to see the real people behind the business. It has this authenticity, this verification to them. So anyone listening, that's some great wisdom from Jay. Um, do have like a nice, at least a nice headshot, nice family photo, whatever on your website, on your Google profile, on your Facebook. Um, when you make posts, be using like real job photos or photos of yourself. Um, and you don't have to look further than Jay's door and trim. Check them out on Facebook. I have never seen a business page with so much engagement. I'm not even that is no exaggeration. I've never seen a handyman trade focus like Facebook page. Like he's got posts that have like regularly getting 10, 20, 50 plus likes, uh, lots of comments. And so Jay does an amazing job uh being authentic and vulnerable on Facebook as well. I love how much you share your heart. Um, and I'd recommend just uh adding Jay. Jay Berkfield on Facebook. He makes a lot of content about his personal journey and business. Um, and that translates that totally flows through to your business, Jay, and it has real benefits um as well. So thank you for sharing that. Yeah. So don't hide behind your logo.

SPEAKER_02 44:17

Um that uh I just wanted to jump in. That that phrase alone, I love don't hide behind your logo. People a great logo is important and it's awesome, and you want to have a logo you're you're proud of. Um, but you're not Nike or Under Armour. Like you probably talk about like you know building building their brand and and branding, and yeah, it's important, but you're not gonna just put your your your logo up all over the place and people are gonna automatically you know associate it like they do with Nike or Gucci or whatever. Um and the example that comes to mind is I I think of like the biggest home builder in the country. I think it's like you know, D.R. Horton. I think they're one of the biggest um home builders in the country. I don't know what their logo looks like. Um I don't know what the quality of their work is is like either. But one of the biggest builders, if not the biggest builder and home builders in the in the country. Um, and I've got no clue what their what their logo looks like. If I saw it, I wouldn't recognize it. Um so so building that that personality and and having those personal photos is hugely, hugely, hugely important. Probably more so um that I'm gonna say definitely more so than than how great your your logo looks. That's not to say it's not important, and having a great logo is awesome. Um, but definitely can't hide behind it because you're not.

SPEAKER_03 45:35

But with that, and good great example of Nike, is I listened to a fella named Roy Williams, he's one of the most famous ad writers in the country and the world. His podcast show, Todd Lyles and Roy Williams of Wizard of Ads. Um Nike, so how did how did Nike like your example of Nike? Don't hide behind your logo. We're not Nike, we're people, we're we're a people home service business. But you know what's funny is Nike, how did they get so big? People, the image of people, Michael Jordan, all these athletes, and beyond athletes, they started using um not professional athletes, just regular people and stuff. Like um, you go back to some of their famous ads, it was people, people running, it was you know what I mean, and then the logo.

SPEAKER_01 46:35

I know exactly the ad. Uh I there's a campaign I remember specifically like probably like five to ten years ago, of just regular runners out in the country, um and making a connection. Yeah, so we need to connect with people though, and you can't do it without showcasing typically your image, because most are starting as owner-operator rather than you know, hiring and and and having trucks like uh J.R. Crow, we interviewed him on our podcast, uh, and he started as a businessman, uh, certainly experiencing the trades, but um it still requires that an aggressive personality, not not aggressive, that's the wrong word there, but being very open to showing the people behind the business. Um, and so uh Jay, kind of circling back here, how you engage on Facebook and what you share, I think is a really that's like the extra credit, extra credit version. Uh, I I just love your content, your vulnerability, but how you tie everything back to your business is really well done. Um so one question I have as far as like marketing and and the niche is that obviously like you're in Castle Rock, Washington. It's not like a sprawling metro area and you only do doors. Like, did that force you to broaden your service area? Um, like what did that look like as far as like the population goes? Do you have to drive further? Um, are you just better at kind of finding other opportunities on the job site related to doors, carpentry, trim work, etc.? Um, like how does that work in your more relatively rural areas compared to say like Seattle up north? Um, did that change anything when you niche down?

SPEAKER_03 48:08

Yeah, so handyman at the at that four-year mark of doing Jay's handyman service, I was getting 1,500 leads a year. 10 leads a day, every day, five five leads, 10 leads, five leads. It was overwhelming. So that was another reason I decided to niche down. So, on topic of that I have to go to different cities, expand because I'm doing one niche, would be that as a general handyman, eventually I got so busy in my area, and again, probably because Facebook, Facebook to Google, and then they called me from Google. But what I'm saying is, like, I was getting 1500 leads a year by myself with no marketing spend, just your website, Google page, and Facebook. And it became over extremely overwhelming to the point that I'd call 20 people, I would pick a day to call call 20 people back. Hey, sorry, it's been a month. And they're like, some people would get mad, like that was four weeks ago. And I'm like, I know I'm just all I'm doing, I would like to interrupt them. Like, I'd the I would start my opening sentence would be like, hey, I'm just calling to apologize. That's it. Like, so I was like, oh my gosh, like too many leads. So I wanted to scale the business with higher-end employees, and I did. I hired an employee and I was doing finished carpentry work, but when I hired them, they were assuming we were gonna do a broad spectrum of all types of work, in which we were, but we were doing high-end finished work and they didn't have that ass, they didn't have that skill set, so I was willing to teach them. But but what I learned when you hire employees, really quick version of my employee experience leading into what your question was, was that it's extremely important to it is most important for your employees to feel like they are really good at their job. As soon as your employees are doing a task and they don't feel good about it, they go home to their families. Like that just that affects them the rest of their evening. Like, I'm doing this task and I don't feel like I'm doing a good job at it. And then so day in and day out, if they're on the they can't wait till that job's over because they're not fast at it, they're not efficient at it, and they want to do a good job at it. So I wanted to grow my business doing all types of services, but that's when I realized my employee he was getting stressed out, and he told me, he's like, Hey, like I feel so bad I'm not fast at this, like super slow at it, right? And I'm teaching them, and then I would be working side by side by him, and I would do the majority of the house base trim by the time he's done with the a little room, and he would, and then it's like, I'm like, I don't care, like you're learning, that's part of the process. But I was paying them a higher wage for that skill set, so to scale a business doing handyman is not easy, and again, my hat's off. So, my recommendation to anybody doing handyman or general contracting business is know who your people are and what their skill sets are and put them in those positions and understand that that's that's the one phrase. It is very important for your employees to feel like they are good at their job, and when they're not, things can be compromised in in several different ways. But when I specialized to doors and trim, I was like, I'm gonna be able to hire an employee and they're gonna feel like they're good at their job, even if they're brand new and they've never used a screw gun and they're learning how to use a screw gun, they know that hey, I'm starting out, I'm brand new, but this is the only thing I need to learn. I need the only thing I need to get good at is installing this door perfectly, and that's it. We're not gonna be building decks, we're not gonna be climbing on roofs doing moss treatment, gutter cleaning. You know what I mean? Uh, variety is good. People do like variety, but at the same time, they they they want to feel like they're experts at their job. So I was like, if I specialize my employees as I scale, that's all they have to be good at. So with the lead flow as a handyman, it was substantial. I went from all those leads to crickets. Um and I was scary, but I kept going and I knew it was gonna work out. It was slow at first. Yeah, I did think I was gonna have to expand. Like you asked, so your original question in a small town, Castle Rock, 3,000 people, the towns around me, you know, they get greater as you go. Uh my average, I know so many metrics, it's not even funny, but my average job is like 20 to 30 miles away, no matter where they're I'm going. Uh, never am I an hour away. Sometimes I I have, and that's why when you said that I grabbed this sheet, I printed off, it's called the customer demographics for the business. And right at the top is Longview, Washington. Second to that is Casserock, Washington. And there's like 16 to 20 cities on here. After that, third little city, my my niche little area, it just falls off to a percentage of where I work. At first, I thought I was gonna have to go everywhere, and so I did. I went all the way up to Olympia, all the way to Vancouver, which is a very large travel radius. Uh, my profits were not good during those times, and I was like, through eight years of data, I mostly work in Longview and Castle Rock. So, what if I put all my marketing efforts, yard signs, and such, and try to only work in these little cities? So narrowing within a niche, narrowing your service area can be. I know some guys on the handyman uh journey group, they they specialize in only serving a small area, and if they're outside of the area, they say no, which gives them more availability for the jobs that are closed. So when you say no to a job, you're saying yes to other jobs that you want to most do. And you might need some work and you get a call for a job outside of your area, and if you say no to that, five minutes later you might get another call and you'll be able to say yes, it's in your area. So that's like don't ever fear saying no so you can stay within your wheelhouse is huge. Um, but it did, it took it it took a few years to where I don't have to worry about driving to Olympia anymore. Uh I got enough leads in Longview Castle Rock area.

SPEAKER_02 54:49

I and I know you're talking about service area, but I I want to highlight a pretty awesome piece of wisdom you shared when you were talking about your employees um or hiring, bringing on training employees, and that one of the main benefits of niching down, picking a niche that you're that you that that you want to work in and having that that clear focus, it makes it so much easier to hire and train employees when there's that clear focus. Um, because if you're training this is just one of the it's just kind of the nature of the beast when it comes to remodeling, general contracting, hand-demand, whatever it is, um trying to bring on employees, you have to train them how to do flooring and trim and doors and drywall and painting and gutter cleaning and and and all the different things. Um and people that already know how to do all of those things and do them well, um they're they're tough to find. They're out there, they're tough to find. And so you're you're kind of in the recruiting and and and training business. Um, but that business becomes a lot easier when you just have to teach them how to do baseboard and door casing and hanging pre-hung doors and and and uh having that that clear focus. Um and I think that's super, super important for people to um consider. Because one of the big for those guys that want to to scale and they want to hire employees, um, especially in the handyman space, more often than not, your biggest bottleneck is or your biggest um you know, the the uh the the reason why it's tough to scale and that in in this industry is you you have to you have to know where to find people and you have to know how to how to train them. That's one of the biggest bottlenecks is not having enough employees that are well trained in all the stuff that you do. Um that just becomes a lot easier when you um when when you niche down.

SPEAKER_03 56:43

Brian Gottlib wrote a book called Beyond the Hammer, and in that book he said, treat your business like a training organization. Like, so like literally think of it like that. Like, what are you? You're you're a business that provides services so you can generate revenue and create jobs and stuff, but beyond that, act like, oh, this is a training center. So you know what I mean? Like what you just said basically. Um you have to be able to training is huge to be able to bring people in, train, train, train. Yeah, I but it with the handyman stuff, it's like that's as long as you're aware of that, the handyman business can be wildly successful. If you're not in tune with that concept, this topic that we're talking about, and you just kind of I don't know, flying by the seat of your pants and hiring people, it can be tough. But as soon as you're aware of it, you can systematize accordingly and appropriately. You got hey, this guy's really that's it comes down to knowing your employees and not just their skills but who they are as a person, too, because you don't want any employees to be frustrated on a job. They might be really good at drywall. Like, I'm I'm really good at drywall patching, I'm phenomenal at it, but I don't like people to know that because I don't want to so if you have an employee like that, like hey, Tony will do it, you know, he's phenomenal at that. But if he doesn't like it, he's gonna eventually leave because he wants to do the other things that he does like to do. And yeah, so if you're aware of that and you train accordingly to their skill sets and what they like to do, and you try to if you got enough work and you got your five employees and you're able to keep them in their wheelhouse, they're gonna like that a lot. Yeah, and you'll be successful.

SPEAKER_02 58:30

Yeah, yeah, and that and that's not to say uh you know you you can't be hyper successful as a handyman, like you said, um, or that it's impossible to find people or train people. Um, JR, Steady Home Made is a perfect example of somebody who's got a great process around hiring and training employees in the handyman space. Um just it's just important to to realize that chances are that's gonna be a pretty big bottleneck in the business that's gonna require um you know a lot of your um you know focus to make sure that you have systems and a process in place to bring on and train uh you know great employees, and and it can be easier um in a niche.

SPEAKER_03 59:10

Yeah, exactly.

SPEAKER_01 59:12

Yeah, good stuff, guys. Um, so we got like 15 minutes here, Jay. And I know uh you had something not go as planned today, uh, as far as like a door possibly showing up to your house around this time. Um and so I did want to ask you, um things not going as planned, life does not go as planned, and uh I've certainly experienced that in my life. And then as business owners, it naturally comes into the business, right? I mean, especially, you know, working with your wife um in the business. So I'd love to hear some highlights of like when business didn't go as planned, man. What are some of the top like biggest man that did not go as planned things that come to mind over your last eight years?

SPEAKER_03 59:56

Yeah. Yeah, I mean, it happens all the time, and it's just uh part of the name of the game. It's not how you it's not how you uh react, it's how you act. So keeping your cool, understanding that problems do happen, and then uh like kind of you you understand that nothing goes as planned, and that's okay. And will being able to adapt uh is is very important. Um lots of stories, whether it's um you know, home life can get uh disrupt business uh or business can disrupt itself uh through problems within the business like deliveries or a door comes in damaged, um as an owner, you know, if your family's health has an issue, that can be very difficult and then totally change your plans. Um there's never a convenient time to do hard things, so knowing knowing those two things is nothing goes as planned, and there will never be a convenient time to do hard things, and as soon as things are going super smooth, um just be ready to adapt and keep your cool as a business owner. You you don't get to be angry and stuff as soon as as soon as you show your angry face and frustration, and if you if you're kind of I know some people they're a little bit of a hothead and in construction, and that might work out on the job, but never as a boss. Uh I got some advice from uh I went to the home service freedom event 2024, and I'm sitting there at a lunch table chatting with other business owners, and uh one of the large I didn't realize I was sitting next to one of the largest home service uh businesses in the country, um like CEO, not CEO, but manager, uh chief of operations, if I'm not if something something like that, but I was like, oh, so cool. And uh I asked him, well, someone said, Hey, if you we're getting up, lunch was done, and he's like, if you had one piece of advice, what would it be? And he said, You kind of thought for a second. He's like, You don't get to have bad days, always be in a good mood. Don't ever let your employees see you in a bad mood. If you gotta go out to your car, do some deep breathing, come back in. You always gotta be level-headed and positivity and smile. So that is um huge to what your your question is there. Um it kind of went off a little bit. Oh, yeah, just nothing goes as planned. So, yeah, something goes and goes as planned, you feel angry. I also read in a book to if you're angry, allow five minutes to be angry and then let it go. It doesn't matter what it is. So take in that anger, like, okay, I'm angry, go to your space and be angry after five minutes. Like, okay, what can I change? What can't I change? Let it go, move on and do the things you can, and uh stay positive as much as possible, always. But um, so those are like my takeaways beyond any type of one story, but that's good stuff, man. Yeah. So beyond any story, that's kind of you gotta be okay with things not going as planned, and the biggest risk a business takes is to never take a risk at all. So if you expect to start a business and there not be fires or bad situations, um you're you're lying to yourself or or just it is not comfortable to own a business. It's not easy or comfortable, but it's extremely rewarding, and I I wouldn't have it any other way. I love doing what I do, I love dealing with the problems. Problems happen all the time, and it's how you it's how you act, not how you react.

SPEAKER_01 1:04:17

Yeah, I love that, Jay. Thanks for sharing that, man. Um it it's any like newer business out there is it's good stuff. Any season is like, oh yeah, like that's so important. Um, one of those I've been in business for about 10 years now, and I would say a common denominator of any successful business owner, and by successful, I mean they're happy in what they're doing, whether they're owner, operator, staying booked out, profitable, taking care of the family, or have lots of employees, multi-million dollar businesses. A common denominator amongst all of them is that they are level-headed and even killed. Um, they don't let the, they don't, they don't take the roller coaster of life into their team, into their business, because we certainly have things that don't go as planned. Um, like I'm sure down to 62 cents in the bank account, you know, when that lead calls, you you you really want that job, right? But you you just have to treat them the exact same way that you would treat them with, you know, 62 grand in the bank account or whatever that looks like. Um, so I absolutely love that um just control, uh, like being mindful of that control because we're gonna have all kinds of stuff that happens that it's gonna weigh us down, and it takes a lot of internal work to kind of show up and and play ball and not let that trickle out to your customers, they'll feel that, your team members will feel that. Um, so great, great wisdom there, Jay.

SPEAKER_02 1:05:37

Um your family will feel that too. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:05:41

Yeah, I don't know how I didn't mention that one. Absolutely. That's the that's the ground score.

SPEAKER_03 1:05:46

Um but that doesn't mean don't hide it. So don't don't put on too strong of a game face. If you had a bad day at work, you know, I mean, uh don't don't bottle things up. So yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:06:00

Yeah, there's an appropriate way to share that with I I don't think with your clients necessarily. You wouldn't tell them about a big life event that that you'd be going through in most cases, unless it changes the schedule, maybe, but absolutely with your team. I know, you know, we try to do that at handyman marketing pros all be on the same page as a family and know what's going on, but still, you know, be there to support each other and and get get the stuff done that needs to be done.

SPEAKER_03 1:06:23

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:06:24

Kobe's like, yeah, I doubt it, bro.

SPEAKER_02 1:06:28

I go, I got one more one more question. For an interior pre-hung door, what's your what's your nail gun gauge of choice? You running like a 15 gauge, 18 gauge?

SPEAKER_03 1:06:41

Uh it would be 16 gauge. 15 gauge is it's once 16 gauge came out, because see, I've been a carpenter since I was seven. Literally, I'm talking using power tools, nail guns, all of it. Building building boxes, grew up in a cabinet shop, um, and my dad teaching me all that stuff, but there wasn't a 16 gauge, it was 15 gauge, you know what I mean. Uh then all of a sudden 16 gauge came out, and they're so close, it's like what I um I use the 16 gauge, it's slightly smaller than the 15 interior, um, and it's plenty. Um exterior doors, I use screws. I do use nails on occasion here and there on the jam, the install of the jam. Uh, sometimes I like to do that to hold the shims uh in place, kind of. But for the most part, I try to just use screws behind the weather stripping. But yeah, that's an interesting thing. Uh what what size nail or gauge to use?

SPEAKER_02 1:07:49

Everybody everybody's a little different. Everybody's a little different. I will tell you, I had an employee, newer, newer employee, um showed him how to put a door in. Um, so we went to go put the next one in. And these were, you know, hollow core, um, you know, cheap, cheaper doors, and they were light. He used a 23 gauge pin nailer to install this interior door um so he wouldn't have to fill the the nail holes. Um and he's like, well, the he's like the casing, the casing will hold it on just just fine. I he's like, I used uh I used an 18 gauge for for that. And I was like, see, well, you gotta fill those nail holes too. Like that's funny. But just curious.

SPEAKER_03 1:08:27

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:08:27

What's that?

SPEAKER_03 1:08:28

Yeah, 18 18 gauge, yeah. Even 18 gauge would be too small for the jam. Um doable, yeah, I guess, but not for you want that thing to last 30 years more or longer, and so yeah, 18 um gauge for the trim would be good. Um I use 23 gauge uh as needed, as like a little little help, help, but nothing like full on. And then uh yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:08:58

Well, I guess I heard it from the uh the expert here. I could I love that question, Kobe, because Jay instantly just lit up like, oh, well, here we go. We're talking about you know what gauge I would use for my door installs. Like uh just the passion that kind of came out of that was uh awesome to see.

SPEAKER_02 1:09:16

Now I I was just gonna say, I I I lied. I said I had one more question, but I got one more question I was gonna ask earlier. If we got I know we're we're running a little short on time, but your your niche, doors and and and finished carpentry trim, um, is uh it's a specific niche. There's not a ton of guys that do really good finished carpentry. Um, and so your business, my first impression was, oh, I bet you Jay gets a lot of work from from contractors and and home builders doing their their finish work. Do you get work like as a subcontractor from from remodelers, contractors, builders?

SPEAKER_03 1:09:53

Uh no, actually, no.

SPEAKER_02 1:09:55

Is that something that you've that you've like considered exploring as a as an option for um for for leads for more work, or is it like nope, I'd rather work for the homeowners?

SPEAKER_03 1:10:05

Um mostly I'm organically not getting contractors calling me to do the door package for them. Um I have a contractor that I've done that for, and I like working for him because I also get to work directly with the homeowners. But that's my main thing within niche and and niching down. The more, like I said, all your eggs in one basket, the more niche niche you can get, the more specialized you can get. I've been saying lately to myself that I specialize in working with homeowners beyond the door install. That's exactly like if if I scale my business, I need employees that are appropriate in the home with the customers. And just finding people that have that personable skills to be in the home and respect someone's home and listening to their stories, their house, their rules. That's what I really specialize in. So after four years as a handyman, I got really um comfortable and good at that and realized that that's what I really like is working for homeowners. So, no, I don't get very many or at all leads from contractors. And uh I do get some new construction people calling every so often, but we don't do any new construction, no commercial and remodels as long as I get to work with the homeowner also, or that contractor is really personable.

SPEAKER_02 1:11:37

That's good stuff. That's that's that's that's good stuff, and that's an important distinction of you know, if you're gonna niche down, or just in general, uh you know, as a business owner in the home services, you have to get pretty specific on you know what it is that you do um and who what what type of work you're gonna say no to, um, but also who you do it for. Is it am I gonna do any subcontract or am I gonna work for builders? Is it just homeowners? Um, is it property managers? So getting specific on on who you do your work for is just as important as as what you do.

SPEAKER_03 1:12:11

It is. And and also doing a customer and customer analysis.

SPEAKER_01 1:12:17

So quick uh customer analysis. Like you mentioned, um, like what does that look like? What's the application there?

SPEAKER_03 1:12:24

And it works for any home service or home improvement business, but you want to find your avatar, your ideal customer, your dream 100 customer, um, and who they are as a person, down to where do they work? Um uh what kind of like I've learned, oddly enough, I have learned the type of people that hire me, whether it's whether it's when I'm in their home, and the energy, my personality, and maybe maybe the engineer doesn't necessarily hire me, but the different type of personality hires me. So that comes with sales. You can have different salesmen go into the same customer's house, and for whatever reason, they're gonna two of those people are gonna click and nobody else will. But like most of my customers read books. They like oddly enough, I because I started tracking it. I started what are similarities between my customers, and I noticed, you know what, when I'm doing the work, a lot of them are over there in their living room reading a book, they're retired reading a book. I'm like, that's so neat. So my customers like to read, which is a good point with my Facebook, because then it's a trickle effect. How does that represent and and what can I use? What kind of how can I use that information to uh improve my business? Well, I know for a fact my customers like to read. So when I type a really long story on my Facebook page, those customers read it, and then it builds rapport and relationship and trust, and then they they just they want to hire me to do the work.

SPEAKER_01 1:14:01

And they want to work for you too, because they're they're rooting for you.

SPEAKER_03 1:14:05

Yeah, they're rooting for you. They already like to read, so they're gonna they're gonna read that. And the people that I don't got time for that, that's fine. I'm cool with that. Yeah, because I know most of my customers read, oddly enough. I'll say installing problems and nothing goes as planned. I was installing a sliding glass door for a customer. No, I'm not installing it, I was repairing it. I had it on its side, and I'm replacing the wheels uh without great detail. I'm kind of working on there, and I'm getting that wheel out, and I got this chisel because there's this little plastic debris tab inside of there, and I'm trying to move it. Pow, the glass shatters, right? Well, the the gentleman I was working for was literally three feet from me on his recliner reading a book. And like I was like, oh my goodness. He's like, uh, and uh, but yeah, they uh they read books, customer analysis. So just start noting everything you know about your customer. Everything.

SPEAKER_02 1:15:06

I I chuckled a little bit. I know I know you were just throwing out a random example, but you you know, you said, you know, maybe maybe engineers aren't my um you know ideal ideal client, and and I chuckled because anybody who's you know i in the home services who's worked in in the home of an engineer, God bless engineers, but man, can it be quite the experience? We worked for um an engineer and we redid their bathroom and we did uh we we replaced all the drywall in there, and when the drywall was done, he got out a bevel gauge and an angle finder and he put it in one of the inside corners, and he's like he's like he's like this is two degrees out of square, which is not needed. Yeah, I'm like I was like, man, I I don't know what to tell you. It is two degrees out of out of out of square. Uh it's drywall. Yeah, just made me chuckle. Yep. Great scenario.

SPEAKER_01 1:15:59

Um, sorry, go ahead, Jay.

SPEAKER_03 1:16:02

Oh no, go ahead, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:16:03

Uh I was just gonna recap, man. I I just love uh like how much you know your customers and you know are committed to the homeowner. I do think there's opportunity for uh more strategic relationships with builders and other contractors as like a really strong referral, or if they want to pay a premium rate to get something done really well with the door and trim on the project. Um, but like what you said about, you know, I love listening and helping people and uh like connecting with them. And then I just so happen to be really good at doors and carpentry. I that like resonates with me as someone who uh, you know, I'll sh I'll share with you know people close of like I just love to help people and connect with them. And I just happen to be, you know, really learn and train an SEO for you know the trade businesses. And so um being committed to who your heart is out there to serve, um, you know, for us at small family-owned handyman businesses and trade businesses like you and Lisa. Um and I just love that commitment and your heart there of I just love to help people and listen to them and talk to them. And um, I do that through amazing carpentry work. So that connected with me, and I think that that's a good trait for any successful business owner of they want to help people and they've got their trait of how they can kind of do that, but also be there in a bigger way, and that's a blessing that uh small business owners have is they can make that human connection with these folks.

SPEAKER_03 1:17:26

Yeah, yeah. There's this saying a man without a smile should not open a shop. So, you know what I mean? So if you don't have a personality to to if you don't have a pleasing personality and you're just you don't want to hear someone's story, then it's it might not be the best business to be in as far as home service or home improvement, because you gotta be willing to listen to people's stories, and sometimes they can if that if that was a piece of advice, I'd say absolutely would be just be a good listener to people's stories and allow your employees to listen to their stories, allow for enough time to hear people's stories and let them tell you all about their stuff and things.

SPEAKER_01 1:18:10

Yeah. I uh I'll I'll dig deep in the archives here of uh uh something that comes to mind. I've got one kind of parting question for you, Jay, but it was years ago, and it was a Friday, like at 4, 4:30, something like I was about done with work uh for the day. This was in the business, and it was a sales call, and it was a pressure washing guy who was homeless living in his truck. I think he'd had a few beverages. Uh and and at first I had this thought of like, oh my gosh, like this guy starts telling me his whole life story, and you know, obviously in a tough spot. And I had this initial reaction of negativity of like, of like, oh my gosh, like it's Friday, I gotta hear this guy's story. He's this guy's a character in a really tough spot in life. And like it just kind of like I had this moment on that call of, of course, it was kind of it's a funny story for me to recollect, but having this moment of like, you know, what else, what more important work can I be doing right now than listen to this guy? And you know, I've got my advice for him. He doesn't have money to hire a marketing company, but like he's homeless living in his truck, and he's got pressure washing gear. So, you know, what's more important than me to listen and then pour into this guy? And um, and it kind of zoomed me out to the real root of like what I think makes small business owners like powerful and and can be successful is uh I just wanted to be there in that moment with that guy and help him and give him some guidance. I never heard from him again, so I hope he's well out there. Uh, but it was a wake-up call moment for me of like, you know, like that's what it this is what business is sometimes. You go into a house and you don't know what someone's gonna unload about their their life on you. And what a special opportunity we have to meet somebody in a hard spot or to listen to them and and uh share our smile, like you said.

SPEAKER_02 1:19:59

Yeah. I got I I gotta I gotta double down on that, Jason. I've been very thankful the way that you run handyman marketing pros, being able to the amount of people that I talk to on our strategy sessions, um, you know, about websites and and marketing and all the stuff that that we do. Um but have having that liberty when when there's people that just they're they're not a good fit or they're not ready for us to to hire us, um but being able to spend the time with them to to to pour into them and give them any sort of help or guidance that I'm that I'm able to without without having to feel like I gotta sign them up as a client or I'm gonna get in trouble or I gotta make more sales or anything like that. Um and so you do that in the in the business and and and give you know give me the the freedom um to just have genuine honest conversations with people um and help any way we can. And and a lot of times that means hiring us, you know, for for our services that we offer. Um and sometimes it just means having a conversation with people. Um and it really goes um you know a long way for for both people involved, I think.

SPEAKER_01 1:21:02

Yeah, I appreciate you sharing that, man. And I know there's opportunities like that in the house every day for all of our listeners out there. Um thanks, Kobe. Means a lot, man. And great inspiration there, Jay. You obviously inspired us with your heart and what's on your mind here on the subject. So uh last question for you, I know we're running over already, um, is like what parting advice um for uh I would say let's focus on if someone has really been thinking about niching down um or at least putting a bigger priority on something. Because I I tell people too, is like you don't need to go like full blown all at once. You can just start to build up a niche, right? Um what what kind of advice would you have for somebody, uh like some action that that you would recommend them take to start focusing or building up a niche within their their handyman business?

SPEAKER_03 1:21:55

Uh towards the beginning of the show, Kobe said it really well as far as some business gurus say to start out specialized, but it's the other way around. It's do a lot of services, build trust with the community, and figure out what's gonna, you know, so that is huge, I think. Uh start out doing several things, so that therefore naming your business is important. Um like I'll and it's okay to rename, to rebrand, but uh consider that it is okay to name rename and rebrand, especially if you've built up uh customers, but it can be you can do it either way, but I think starting out offering several different things is good, and then especially if you're unsure of what you want to do, you're a really good like uh the drywall and all the things in the painting, and you kind of enjoy all of it and you enjoy the variety. Um I think uh eventually narrowing down your niche, even if you are doing all things, because even like the Uber successful handyman businesses, they eventually narrow down too. There's they get really good at saying no at something.

SPEAKER_01 1:23:15

Yep. Jay, thank you so much for taking the time to be here with us, man. Um, if any of our listeners would like to connect with Jay, um look him up on Facebook, Jay's Doran Trim, uh Jay Berkfield, um, you know, friend of Facebook, super nice guy. I he's the algorithm knows that I read your stuff, Jay, because it shows me a lot of your posts. And so I just love your your insight and your heart that you reflect um uh about your business. I think it's really helpful, and I've certainly gotten value from that. Um, so yeah, man, thank you so much for taking the time to be with us today. Uh, really appreciate it.

SPEAKER_03 1:23:52

Yeah, you're welcome. Um thank you for having me. This is really cool. Uh way cool. I appreciate it. Great talking with Kobe, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:24:02

Thank you for joining us for another episode of the Um Hero Podcast, brought to you by Handyman Marketing Pros.