Life After Recognition: Living in Rome with Liz Knight

In this episode of Your Italian Podcast, host Lauren sits down with Liz Knight, an American expat who has spent more than a decade building a life, career, and family in Rome. If you’ve ever dreamed of moving to Italy or wondered what day‑to‑day life in Rome is actually like, this conversation delivers real, grounded insight into the expat experience.

Liz shares her journey from Tennessee to the Eternal City, opening up about the realities behind the romantic idea of “living in Italy.” Together, we explore Italian bureaucracy, navigating residency and taxes, how the healthcare system works, and what it’s like to raise children and build community in Rome. You’ll also hear what surprises most Americans when they move to Italy, what families should know about Italian schools, how long it truly takes to feel settled, and the emotional side of starting over in a new country.

Whether you’re planning a move, exploring your Italian citizenship, or simply fascinated by expat life, this episode offers an honest, practical look at what it means to build a life in Italy—beyond the postcards and pasta.

Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:24

Welcome back to Your Italian Podcast. I'm your host, Lauren Hopkins, founder of Your Italian Passport, your source for all things Italian citizenship. On today's episode, we met with Liz Knight, American attorney in Rome and a longtime friend of mine. And we got into top all sorts of interesting topics, whether it's taxation and working in Italy, uh healthcare and how to access it, uh, putting your kids in school, all of those things. Hope you enjoy. Let's get into it. Liz, welcome to your Italian podcast. I'm so excited about this episode and honestly so so relaxed about this episode, which is so nice to just feel like, okay, great. This is just chatting with a friend.

SPEAKER_00 1:08

Anytime I can chat with you, I feel the same way.

SPEAKER_01 1:11

Right. I feel like you know, uh, we could go on for three hours here, folks. We might we we'll try not to, but uh, that's you know, the way Liz and I are. So just so, you know, I think we should tell the audience just how we know each other, I guess to sort of explain why who are you, why are you my guest, etc. So a little bit about Liz and a little bit about how we know each other. Liz Knight is a is an attorney, an American attorney living in Realm for many, many years, uh, and has children in in Italy, an Italian husband, etc. She has essentially she's made the successful leap that all of us are still working on, or at least I'm still working on. And I came to be aware of her gosh, about 13 years ago. Oh my gosh, where'd he see time go?

SPEAKER_00 1:58

We think it was 2013. We could go back on the digital footprint.

SPEAKER_01 2:03

I think it's 2013, and I was at the Department of Justice and dreaming of being, I think, anyplace else, and Googled the term um attorney in I think American attorney in Italy or American attorney in Rome, talking about myself. Like, how would how would maybe me get there? And this blog comes up called Rome If You Want To. Fabulously written, so fun of a read, written by you know who, the one and only Liz Knight. And I thought, yeah, I have to know this person. And so my stalking began. And I reached out to you. And I think I was gonna, I was going on a trip with my mom to Italy, um, and said, Hey, uh, you don't know me, but kind of we're gonna be friends. Um, and I have since done that previously. I had done that to another friend, still two lifelong friends. I highly recommend that. Just tell people that you know you're gonna like, just say, You don't know this, but we're gonna be besties. It's gonna work out. And either they'll run or you will be besties. One of those two things will happen. Uh, and so I reached out to you and said, You don't know me, but I'm coming to Italy. And would you possibly agree to meet with me? And if it makes you feel a little bit less scared, uh, my my 60-something year old mother will be with me. So don't worry. We're I'm not here to kill you.

SPEAKER_00 3:26

Is that kind of how it went? Yeah, except I was not scared. Um, I was also happy to meet your mom, but I I had the same sensation. We had so much in common. Um, I knew we would be friends also. And, you know, that that is how it happened. We met in, was it like Piazza Navona? I mean, something out of Roman holiday, you know. Yes. Um, for we sat in Piazza Navona for like four hours eating ice cream. Yeah, yeah. I don't think I've ever told you this, but I was walking away and I heard you say to your mom something like, that was so nice. Yes, that that sounds totally like me.

SPEAKER_01 4:05

So, yes, that is something I would have totally said to her. Like, wasn't that great? Yeah, exactly. Exactly. So welcome. I am so glad that you and I are able to do this. And so catch everybody up a little bit on what are you doing right now? Well, that tell us about your your your life professionally, personally, et cetera, and then we'll get into how can we all be you.

SPEAKER_00 4:28

Okay, well, for many years I was slash have been slash am still um a US licensed attorney living here. I'm on a very extended maternity leave, uh, self, you know, imposed, desired long maternity leave after having my second son. Um I will go back and do something for sure, but uh at the moment I am free of deadlines and um, you know, nasty letters that I have to respond to from opposing counsel. I am negotiating with preschoolers and um trying to settle differences between brothers that are very close in age, um, but I do not have to send out any bills.

SPEAKER_01 5:19

Um, all of those same litigation skills are still in practice. All of the litigation skills are different audience.

SPEAKER_00 5:25

A lot of the stress, a lot of the sleepless nights, you know, I just don't have to file anything, and um the pay is a lot worse. Um I get paid in kisses and snuggles, kisses and snuggles and hugs and you know yes, exactly.

SPEAKER_01 5:43

Um just so everybody knows, yeah. While you when you were working, you were working for an American firm.

SPEAKER_00 5:49

Correct. So I always worked remotely for an American firm um that I had worked with previously in the traditional way, you know, in person in an office. Uh and this was before COVID, long before COVID. After COVID um happened, I think everybody in the world realized that you could just work remotely for yourself, for your own business that you start, um, as a contractor, as an employee in some situations. Um, but I did that before I knew anybody else was doing it. And um my firm just understood that you could do almost everything remotely, even you know, mediations and some hearings and certainly depositions. And um there was just so much of it that was on the phone. You can file things for anywhere. You know, this is not a probably you tell me a podcast about how to practice law remotely. So I'm getting into the weeds of like what what you can do, you know, the technology. But um, you know, it was a really um, it was a really forward thinking um uh experience at firm. Uh I am eternally grateful that they trusted me to have the the work ethic to make that happen and to work during US hours, et cetera. Um, if you are an attorney, you know, with your own practice, you know, work whenever hours you want. But I was working with when my colleagues and when housing counsel, et cetera, are in the office. And so, you know, that's the um situation that I was happy to continue. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 7:34

And you were paid in American dollars, and that was paid into a US bank account. Yes. Uh and then go ahead. So my I'm leading up to like, how does how does taxation work? If you make this leap and you are employed uh in the US, how does all of that work?

SPEAKER_00 7:54

Okay, so you you declare all of your worldwide earnings. So, you know, maybe you've got a client and you know, you with with your Italian passport, maybe you've got a client in Canada or a client in, you know, all your worldwide sourced income you declare on your Italian taxes. If you're a resident here, if you're a resident here, and this makes perfect sense, you're using Italian infrastructure. You know, if you call the police an Italian police car comes, you're using the roads. So if you're a resident here, you've paid taxes in Italy. So you have to declare all your worldwide income, no matter where the source is, no matter what currency it's in, you declare that on your Italian taxes. You must have an Italian accountant. It's called commercialista, and it's like more than an accountant, it's like a CPA. You must have that. There is no turbotact, there's no Italian turbo tax, there's no Italian, you know, free file dot whatever. You have to find one of those. Try to line one up before you get here, but otherwise, line one up after you arrive. Word of mouth is how I got mine, and I love him. Um, word of mouth is probably where any of you will will get yours as well. If you don't know anyone, like word of mouth from whom there are great, you know, Facebook pages for expats in your area, and this question comes up a lot, and you'll get a lot of suggestions, then you can go look that person up and see if you like their website, et cetera. So you provide him or her with uh all of your um, you know, if you have your 1099s, your whatever, um, provide him or her with those. He or she will tell you what you owe, and it gets put into a one-page form, unlike your American taxes, which is like 29 pages, it's one page, and he or she tells you what to pay, and you just pay it. So that's also, by the way, all your interest and dividends, etc. So you're gonna pay a lot of taxes here.

SPEAKER_01 9:53

In Italy, do you pay taxes once a year or throughout the year several times?

SPEAKER_00 9:58

Uh I have only paid once a year. Other people might pay like uh, you know, multiple twenty. There it is twice a year in the fall, but the one I the ones, the times I've paid in the fall have been so little compared to what I end up paying in June. That's why I sort of forgot about it. It's not like four equal quarters. There's sort of um like a little smaller sort of um what do they call it here? Like I may I guess it's like an advance, you know, like in the States, you're technically paying that quarter on what you think you're gonna owe. And then if you've paid too much, um, then you get a refund. Anyway, um, so so it's mostly once a year, but yeah, there's a little time. My my um commercial sends me an email in the fall and says you have to pay like a few hundred, and I don't question it, I just pay it. And then the big bill is in the summer, so it's in the summer, so it's June 30th. So in April 15th, okay.

SPEAKER_01 10:53

So June 30th is like our April 15th.

SPEAKER_00 10:55

Yes, so what what is that? So in when it's April 15th time, you haven't paid your Italian taxes yet, so you need to get your extension. Expats get an automatic extension, uh, but that the automatic extension is only two months. That's June 15th. You still haven't paid. So you need to file and get that full extension till mid-October. So you'll get it. Just it's really easy. You go on Turbo Tax, or I use something called Tax Act. Whatever you use, you click on file an extension, you you get it. No problem.

SPEAKER_01 11:27

So then now you've got to- Okay, now why would why would you want to file the extension? Is that because you will owe less to the US because you've paid taxes in Italy? Hopefully, nothing. Hopefully.

SPEAKER_00 11:37

So hopefully you'll all the US nothing. Hopefully, hopefully. So you because your Italian taxes are gonna be, I'm sorry to tell you, so much higher than what you would have owed on the same money in the US. You pay your Italian taxes, and then you fill, and then in June. Then you have until October, like to get your mind around the idea that you now I now I have to fill, now I have to file American taxes. I've just done all this in Italy, now I have to do this again. So in October, you do your your attack, your American taxes, your your returns as usual, and then you attach a form. It's one or another depending on your circumstances. Don't quote me, but I think it's it's either a 1116 or a 2555. Please don't quote me. But depending on what your what your financial situation is, that's how you show what you have paid in Italy. And it should it should zero out most, if not all, of your US taxes. There's a treaty between the countries. That's not true. Um, for example, my best friend who used to live in China did not have this treaty. So in um there's a treaty between the US and Italy where you're not going to be uh double taxed on the same dollars or euros earned, but only if it's in the same income category. So that's true for wages, but it's not true. Don't again, please don't quote me because and it could change tomorrow. But like capital gains, for example, you would on a sale of a house, you that that tax category doesn't exist here, I don't think, but it does in the states. So that category is not zeroed out. So if you sell so if you sell a home and you get a profit, you would now have to pay taxes on that in America, even though you're not a resident there anymore. You know, I cannot, I'm not a CPA or or a commercialista. So, you know, this is what I have understood from going through it myself and from reading a lot. But uh, you know, some people you would find yourselves owing something to the US depending on the category of your income.

SPEAKER_01 13:54

Just to clarify one little point, and then I want to go back to some more macro issues. You're saying if you sold a house in Italy and had capital gains, you you wouldn't owe Italy anything in terms of taxation on those capital gains, but you would have to pay the US for earnings on a sale of a property in Italy?

SPEAKER_00 14:13

Yeah, for sure you have to pay in the U.S. My doubt is whether or not you have to also pay here. I think not. I think that is the whole reason that you owe taxes in the States, is because you're not being double taxed in the same category of income like you would be with wages. And nobody has to take my word for it. Everybody should go Google Boris Johnson. Boris Johnson, U.S. citizen, you know, Boris Johnson, capital gains, home, whatever category. But Boris Johnson, the former prime minister and the prime minister, was a U.S. citizen from birth because his parents were working there, and um he was born and then moved back to the UK when he was, I think, five and never lived there again, but retained his U.S. citizenship, sold his mansion in London, thought nothing of it, and then got a big tax bill from Uncle Sam. And he fought it and he fought it, he fought it, and he went on television saying, I'm not gonna pay a diamond over my dead body. And guess what? He ended up paying it. And after he paid it, he renounced his U.S. citizenship U.S. citizenship. That's how would it after something so enraging? Yes, a lot of people, you know, for me, it would be like slightly less enraging because I lived in the US my whole life. I still go there a lot. Maybe one day I'll live there again. But Boris Johnson, he's like, I've I've never I've never even went, I left before kindergarten and he had to pay some huge because it was a it was a big house.

SPEAKER_01 15:44

Yes, yes, yes. Now a couple things I want to talk about. So, number one, what what if you go ahead and pay your US taxes first in April and then share that with Italy in June? And can you can you owe less in taxation by doing it in that order?

SPEAKER_00 16:00

No, you can't. And again, you know, I'm not a professional, but I had the same question, you know, when I started paying taxes here many years ago. But no, because you owe where you are a resident. You are a tax resident in Italy, you owe here, you don't owe there, but you do owe here. And so if you do that, like let's say you do that by accident, like June comes around and your accountant says, Oh, you owe X amount of money. You think, well, wait a minute, I just paid my US taxes. I paid, I'm just gonna use wrong numbers. Your Italian accountant says you have to pay $10,000. And you think, well, I just paid $5,000 to the US. Well, sorry, you got to pay $10,000 here and then try to get a refund in the US. You know, you could get it.

SPEAKER_01 16:41

Okay. So always better to ask for an extension in the US, settle up with Italy, and then apply what you paid to Italy to your US obligations.

SPEAKER_00 16:50

Yeah, which I don't I have not bull bought or sold any houses. I don't own uh uh another situation was my American friend living here had retained um a home, I think in Pittsburgh and was renting it out in the US. That rental income, I think she owed, I think she pay had to pay you, I can't remember. But there was like there's certain categories of income that you pay here, that you pay there, but your your wages, so any income you have from working, interest, and dividends on your investments are taxed here, and then those are zeroed out in the states. I haven't owed any money to the states in a long time because I have not that many different categories. You know, I don't write it.

SPEAKER_01 17:35

And you're paying to Italy. Why, if there's a tax agreement, do you have any sense of why does this operate like a one-way street? Like the US will take into account what you paid in Italy, but is Italy just like, oh, I can't figure that out, so you still owe X we too much, too complicated. It's not that they can't figure it out with that.

SPEAKER_00 17:54

It's not that they can't figure it out. Like you you owe here, you owe all of your taxes where you're a tax resident. The reverse would also be But under this tax agreement, don't they have to make that?

SPEAKER_01 18:03

Oh, because you're a resident. Okay, so you're saying if an Italian person born in Italy moves to the US, they would file in, they would request an extension in Italy, file in the US, and then they would be able to share with Italy, hey, I'm a resident in the US, I've paid the US, now give me a break on my Italian taxes. But it's because you're a resident in Italy that the country giving the break has to be the place where you are not a resident.

SPEAKER_00 18:31

I am sorry to tell anyone this who's listening, but only America and as far as I know, Eritrea, country in Africa, tax their citizens. But that comes up a lot. Tax their citizens who live abroad. So, no, an Italian person living in Florida or living in New York does not have to pay any Italian taxes ever, no matter where they're you know, you, Lauren, are an Italian citizen living in North Carolina. You are not paying Italian taxes and you're not cheating, you're not you're taxing, you're not evading anything. That's right. That's fine. America is extremely unique in how it uh taxes its U.S. citizens, its long arms, it taxes its citizens living all around the world. And um, that's why I, as a U.S. citizen here, pay taxes to Italy as I should. As I said, I'm using their streets, I'm driving on their streets, I'm, you know, using their emergency services, I'm definitely using their health care. We're gonna talk about that, I'm sure. Um, my children are using the free healthcare, et cetera, et cetera. If they go to university here, it's paid for by all of our taxes. It's college is free here. So as I should, I live here. Um I I use their services, I pay taxes here. It's the US that does what I don't want to um say unfair or not unfair. I mean, it's it's you know, I have less of an I have a little bit less of an objection to it because I lived there for a long time and I'm I could see myself going back one day, but somebody like Boris Johnson, somebody like my you know, there's so much like uh it's just very, very unusual. It's very unusual that the US makes its citizens who live abroad continue to pay taxes to the U.S. Somebody I had a conversation with a relative recently who said, but I I think that's fair. If you were, you know, abroad and there were if there were a tsunami or something, you would be calling like the the US government to get you out. I I just have made peace with that. Um as I've said, at least in my specific situation, um, I don't think I have owed US taxes ever since I have lived here because my categories are pretty narrow. But if I ever bought a house and then sold it, that might be different.

SPEAKER_01 20:59

So, Liz, I have one sort of because you know, this is kind of who I am kind of question. So, as an American living in Italy and earning income from a US source, if you just didn't pay, how are they gonna know what you're making?

SPEAKER_00 21:16

How is Italy gonna know what you're making and what you owe? I don't know. I don't want to know. Right? I'm not, you know, I don't want to risk that. It's it's I would not risk that. Um there because of the treaty, I think that they can communicate with each other. The Italian IRS, which is called something else, and the US IRS can communicate with each other if they want to. It's probably, I'm just guessing, as random as like an audit that you might have in the US if you're just a US person living in the US, you know, that you might get randomly audited or maybe some red flag would pop up. And, you know, if you're getting paid, like I mean, a W2 is gonna be easy, but if you're getting paid, you know If you've got multiple sources, or you've doing things, you know, how would they know if you don't tell the IRS? You know, if they don't, how do they know about your gambling winnings or like you sold your grandmother's silverware? I mean, how would they know? Maybe not, but you know, if you get audited.

SPEAKER_01 22:16

Okay, we can we can leave it there. We can let the audience gather their own assess your own risk level and govern yourself accordingly based on uh, you know, how would the Italians know about my uh my uh my overseas income? Uh you know, for example, it's not necessarily just having a codice fiscale. That does not that can be had by somebody that's not a resident in Italy, so that doesn't necessarily trigger some sort of tax investigation, etc. All right. So let's say you've got yourself settled there in Italy, you're working, you figured out taxes, you've got your commercialista, you feel like, okay, good, good, good, good. I've got my apartment, I'm paying my taxes, everything is good, but I would like to go to the doctor. Now I've been here like six months, a year, and I haven't gone to the dentist, I haven't seen a doctor, I haven't really had any emergencies, you know, this in this hypothetical situation, but you're thinking, like, okay, yeah, I need my teeth cleaned, and I should probably have my annual physical. What's the first step somebody needs to take in order to start those relationships with physicians that are not emergency-based?

SPEAKER_00 23:17

You have some options here in Italy. There are parallel systems. There is the free system, which is kind of like Medicare for all, and it runs parallel to a private system, which really resembles what we're used to in the States, except much, much cheaper. So I would recommend any to anyone who can afford it to go ahead and get private health insurance. Um, it's it's still you know much, much cheaper than you would ever dream of in the states. Um and in fact, just paying privately out of pocket is is infinitely cheaper than it would be in the United States. Some people choose to do that and not get insurance because you know, even an operation will cost you just a fraction of what you would dream of. I think the other day we were talking, I got a blood test that I paid for out of pocket for eight euros or something.

SPEAKER_01 24:06

So now is private insurance available to citizens and non-citizens?

SPEAKER_00 24:11

My my husband has insurance through his job. So a private insurance through his Italian, he's Italian, he has an Italian job, and they offer private insurance as a benefit, just like your job in the US might offer it as a benefit. But also there is expat insurance that you can buy. My best friend friend here has that. Um, you know, use it to give birth in a private hospital. It was accepted. I don't know what she pays. Um, but you know, I I am certain it is much less than you would pay, you know, in the US because help, you know, they have to reimburse a provider here who's charging a fraction of what a provider would charge in the States.

SPEAKER_01 24:47

The public. So the public insurance, though, only available to citizens, private insurance can be purchased by non-citizens.

SPEAKER_00 24:54

So public is not insurance, it's just it's just free health care. It's just like public health care, right? No, not only to citizens, I have it too. You have to be a resident. So citizen or non-citizen resident. In fact, you, as an Italian citizen, non-resident, can't get it. So because you're not going to be able to do that.

SPEAKER_01 25:12

Residency triggers access to the healthcare system.

SPEAKER_00 25:14

Residency. So residency. And for residency in the States, it's like I'm a resident of Tennessee because I say I am. You know, here it's very formal. You have to go to City Hall and like, you know, register yourself. They come to your house and check to see that you actually live there. They came, they came and checked to see if I was here. Okay, they did that. They did that.

SPEAKER_01 25:36

Yeah. Even in Rome, even in I always think like in a big city, most of the time they don't bother to send out a police officer to do these checks because they have too much to do.

SPEAKER_00 25:43

They came, they wrote, they rang the buzzer. My husband answered and said, and they said, Is uh you know, Elizabeth Knight there uh in the in the house. And he said, uh, yeah, she's up here with the baby. Do you want to come up? And they said, No, it's okay. No, we'll just write write down that she's here. But it's okay. So if he had been bluffing, you know, that would have been busted, you know. So so I guess they believed that he wasn't bluffing, and he wasn't. But they do really come. So then once you have your your residency formalized, you um can then get on the Italian healthcare, you get a national health care card, you trot down to the healthcare office of your neighborhood. It's uh like a zone. Is that in the comune? It's even less than your comune. It's uh your your little quartiere, your neighbor, and you present your residency documents, etc. Then they say, okay, they give you um, at least in Rome, they give you a paper sort of temporary card, and then your plastic card comes in the mail. Also, in that moment, they assign you a doctor. This is crazy for uh an American person. Like they assign you a doctor, and this is your what we would call like a primary care doctor. Here they call it a medico di base, your base doctor, medico de base. And that's where you go for your bad cough, your you know, your everyday things, and then he or she can refer you to a specialist. Um how do you make an appointment with your medical di base?

SPEAKER_01 27:24

Walk in. It's walk in. You don't have to make an appointment. You can just go in. There's no wait. You don't have to call ahead, you just show up.

SPEAKER_00 27:31

We do just we do call ahead. You don't have to. I call we call ahead to be like also because we kind of made friends with the lady at the front desk that's also so Italian. You may you're like buddy, buddy with like the wrist. So she will like squeeze us in, but maybe she also she and my husband are fans of the same soccer team. So she will bend over backwards for us, yes. So um, you know, like we'll call ahead and be like, is it swamped? Is it, you know, are there tons of people there, or when what time should we come in? Where there's gonna be like less people. So you can kind of call ahead, but you can also just walk in. The thing is though, is that the hours are reduced compared to what I think we're used to, you know, like I'm going to see my doctor at 7 p.m. tonight, you know, and in the States. And here it's like, you know, maybe from same as maybe from nine to one or something, but okay, yeah, but it's still walk in. And you know, recently I was home and one of my parents had bronchitis or something and was like calling the doctor, and there was just nothing available. The advice was just keep taking over-the-counter stuff, and if you know, if you turn blue, go to the emergency room. Like he so, you know, I I here he could have just walked in and um been seen.

SPEAKER_01 28:47

So uh you okay, so walk-in might be limited hours. Uh and if that person is out sick themselves, is there a replacement doctor, or you're just told no, come back tomorrow.

SPEAKER_00 28:58

Yeah, they go on vacation and there's a replacement doctor, you know, uh a substitute are called and they're there and they're great too. And it's no problem if that person isn't listed on your test of sanitaria, your healthcare card. They're substituting for Dr. So and so. And so, and you get um, you can request when you go to the ASL office, that's the um health care, national health care office for your neighborhood. You can say if there's a specific one you want, and if he or she has some availability, you'll you'll get him or her. And so I got the one that my husband was already going to and that his parents already go to. He so we're all at the same family doctor. Like, I think how very Italian is that as well.

SPEAKER_01 29:41

It's uh it is very phone, like we all the family doctor for multiple generations, yes, yes, yes.

SPEAKER_00 29:47

We don't want to go, you know, to two different places, you know, and far flying corners of the so so that um but if there had been someone else, if I'd been like, no, I met this doctor and she's great and I'm gonna go to her. I is she's got availability, I could go to her too. So it's not like you have to just take whoever. But it's also if you don't know anybody, then you're fine to take whoever.

SPEAKER_01 30:11

Right. Then you're assigned a position. Now, you also have the private insurance through your husband's employer. And what do you see as the big benefits that that make private insurance preferable to the universal healthcare system? I'm gonna call it. And are there things that the universal healthcare system does better than the private side?

SPEAKER_00 30:31

What the you know what the um universal healthcare system does better is it's free. Obviously, I know that was so you're not gonna get a bill at all. And in the private one, you know, you will, and even if you have insurance like we have, it's um, you know, you have deductibles and co-pays. They're just so small. You know, we're talking like 15 euros, you know, is like is your copay for something. A blood test that you owe eight euros. Exactly. Um uh and the deductible, you know, I don't even know, it's just also reduced. So you do have to pay, you know, something. But the difference in care is uh the the public is totally fine and totally good. We use both, we especially for our kids. We have a private pediatrician who does the sort of well child checkups every six months or whatever schedule they're on. But for like a bad cough, a cold, or um pink eye or something, we take them to the free. I Americans like to say it's not free, it's a taxes, you know. I like, but so I'm just saying free as shorthand. Um we go to the free pediatrician for just stuff like that. So um the the the public one is totally fine. The difference is really if you are giving birth, like I've done twice, if you are having an operation or something like that, in the private system, you will get a private room, you know, with a TV and good food. And you know, I had a view of like a courtyard with palm trees and a balcony, you know, when I was in recovery for my after my kids were born. Um in a public hospital, you'll have a roommate. Um, you'll be sharing about.

SPEAKER_01 32:18

Are they are are we saying these are are they operating in different facilities? Like if you identify a certain hospital in Rome, that's gonna be exclusively universal healthcare doctors and and then the private hospitals have the private physicians.

SPEAKER_00 32:29

Great question, Lauren. Great question. Because my my dear friend was saying that his parents, who live in a rural part of Texas, uh have a problem finding a provider who accept Medicare. You know, like the providers are not accepting Medicare. You have to find here that is not a problem because it's different brick and mortar. It's a private hospital you could pay for with insurance, you can pay out of pocket if you don't have insurance. And then there are public hospitals. So where you got, so they there's no like they don't accept me or whatever, because that's all there, you know, there is. You go and then there's you don't get a bill. But you know, moms who give birth in a public hospital are gonna be totally fine. The healthcare is fine, the outcomes are great, um, but you're gonna have a link.

SPEAKER_01 33:14

In terms of the physicians, yeah. So there are physicians that are exclusively universal healthcare system and physicians that are exclusively in the private system.

SPEAKER_00 33:21

You might have somebody who works in two different places, both, you know, both.

SPEAKER_01 33:24

Like some, you know, so it's not as though when you're coming up in your career as a physician, you make this choice and you might find that they have different credentials or something like that. But no, they there is overlap. Yeah, they might be might be the medical debate for a certain muni uh munichip, y'all, and then at the same time, they can be hired privately.

SPEAKER_00 33:45

And when I I had a lot of preconceived notions when I first came here and started, you know, needing to go to the doctor, etc. And I think I said to somebody, like, why would you, if you're graduating with a degree in medicine, why would you pick, you know, being a public doctor over a private doctor when, you know, the private hospitals have like gazebos and swans, you know, and the public hospitals are like are look a little dated, like they could use a little sprucing up, et cetera. And the person responded to me, oh, the public doctors are paid really well. There's a lot of with our taxes, they're paid well. They're not bottom of the barrel, like, you know, the lowest grades or the worst, you know, the worst students of the class. No, no. A lot of, and you get a lot of vacation, et cetera. So there are a lot of um reasons that a doctor might prefer to work in the public system over the private system. And so I, in my experience, there the public care is great. It's just less my my son had to spend um the night in the high, he got some stitches, whatever, in the hospital. And you know, we had a roommate, nobody got any sleep. That roommate, that the doctor for the roommate was coming in and out at all hours. There was a mom who was on the phone at all hours. I was like, but you know, we didn't get a bill for that.

SPEAKER_01 35:11

Now, I think there's a perception that when you have in a country that offers universal health care, as I keep calling it, that there are some services for which you might wait an eternity. Is that true? Are there things where it's like, well, I need this um, let's call it an elective surgery, where it's not like I have bronchitis, somebody I, you know, I'm not gonna have this six months from now. But you let's say you, I don't know, I don't have a fantastic example on here. But something that doesn't have to happen today. Do you find that yes, these there can be services where if you're using the public system, yes, they'll tell you we can't get to you for six months, eight months, whatever, or is that a myth?

SPEAKER_00 35:50

I have heard the same thing. I have not myself had that problem because we have private insurance and we just call and say, hi, I want a knee replacement, you know, and we'll just get it whenever we want. Um, but I have heard the same thing. I've heard, but it's I'm giving you a lot of hearsay now. But you know, a friend whose mom had to wait 18 months for bunion surgery because they didn't consider it, you know, urgent. Um so I've also heard, but again, this is not my personal experience, that they they try to mitigate that by, you know, if you have a medical de base who prescribes for you a specialist service, um, I mean, maybe not elective, literally like a nose job, but prescribes for you, you know, bunion surgery. If you find that you cannot seem to schedule it for a long time in the public system, again, this is just what people have told me. You can go to a private hospital and somehow demonstrate, prove that you have a prescription for this, and you're not the next available appointment is not till next year that you can get it done at the private hospital for free. I mean, for free. I keep doing that for free. So I guess then the private, I suppose that what then happens behind the scenes would be that the private hospital would bill Medicare. It's not called Medicare, but you know, so you know, we provided this service to someone and we didn't we that person didn't pay us personally, so we're gonna ask the government to reimburse us. You don't care. You got your you got your bunion surgery, so you don't care. Right. But um and the private healthcare system got paid. And the private health, and so is what happens in like a rural community. I mean, I live in Rome. What happens in the deep, dark, you know, jungles of Calabria, uh, it's probably it's probably rough. Um, but that's probably also the same, you know, for my friend whose parents live in the middle of nowhere, East Texas, too. You know, they have to drive to Dallas, you know. So um I really don't have anything bad to say about the Italian healthcare here. And I promise you, I before I started using it, had a lot of um just preconceived notions and fear about the quality, but what the quality was gonna be. Yeah. But I still recommend, I really do recommend that everybody get private insurance. I'm not out here saying just use the national health care like there's no tomorrow. Like get the private insurance, you will not be disappointed, and um and it just doesn't cost like what it costs in the states. It's it's a fraction.

SPEAKER_01 38:35

Yeah. Last question in this category is the same true of prescription medications? Are they far less expensive than in the US?

SPEAKER_00 38:43

They're far less expensive than in the US, far less expensive. Um I 50 pills for of thyroid, of synthroid, which a lot of people take in the US for thyroid. 50 pills is like three and a half euros. Um and that's without even insurance. That's just out of pocket. That's not what I pay after insurance. That's just out of pocket. But you know what costs more? Over-the-counter medicine. So your Tylenol, your like mucinx, your robotussin. So if you want to bring some of that from the states in your in your suitcase, that's probably a good idea.

SPEAKER_01 39:27

And do you think that might be because in the pharmacies there the pharmacist kind of serves as a healthcare provider in a way? And like you can talk to that person about you, you can skip the doctor entirely and say, I've got this nagging cop, what's going on? And they might solve the problem for you and give you what you need right there, and you don't have to make you don't have to go into the doctor at all.

SPEAKER_00 39:46

Yes, uh, sometimes for sure. So they can give you antibiotics if they're convinced, you know, that you maybe not like around 10 days worth or something, but if you've got like a UTI, just for example, you know, you and it's like a one-day antibiotic, they can give you that. My thyroid medication, which I've been taking for 25 years, I don't ever present a prescription for that. I just tell them I need, you know, 125 micrograms, whatever, and they just give it to me. They have um they they have more authority, I think, than a pharmacist does in the US. Um, I don't think I know. Um, and there's also just kind of more trust. I mean, how do they know I'm not selling it out of the back of my car, you know? But they just do it, they just give it to me.

SPEAKER_01 40:34

They just assume right. So they stop assuming the worst in everybody and assume everybody's just acting like a normal human.

SPEAKER_00 40:41

Yeah, and interesting.

SPEAKER_01 40:43

Okay, so you've got yourself in your apartment enrollment. Now, I don't mean you, but in our in a kind of our example that we've been following in the podcast. You've got yourself set up, you've got your citizenship, you've got yourself an apartment, you're you've got your work set and and your taxes are all in order. Now you've gone to the doctor and now you know how to do that in in any scenario. And now, as life always does, or not always, but often does, now kids arrive on the scene. And tell us about that. Uh, well, let's start with. I guess what I want to most talk about is when they get to be school-aged. I mean, I think we've kind of covered that, like, yes, the healthcare element of bringing them into the world is gonna be just fine. Whether you go public, whether you go private, it's gonna be just fine. And so will their wellness visits, uh, emergency care, all of that. And then they get to be school-aged. And so, what did an American like you, what are you doing with your school-aged children now in terms of both at the preschool level and when they get to the equivalent of kindergarten? How do you make those decisions? What are the options available?

SPEAKER_00 41:45

Okay, yeah. So I have a son in kindergarten. They don't call it that here, but the equivalent of kindergarten because next year is the first grade. And my other one is in a preschool class, he just turned four. Um, I you have in a city like Rome. I mean, this might not be true if you live in them in the countryside, you know, of Tuscany or whatever, but in uh a city like Rome, your choices are Italian public school, Italian private school, which is like if you sent your child to a private school in the US, or an private international school, which is um only in English. These are only in English. Uh all of them?

SPEAKER_01 42:26

Yeah, the international schools are always in English.

SPEAKER_00 42:29

What the private international schools are English language schools, and you know, the teachers are gonna be from the US, from the UK, from Australia. Um, you might have some Italian teachers, but they're gonna be Italians who speak perfect English and uh because the instructions in English. Those schools are very expensive. You can just Google, you know, English language international school in Rome and find it. Um, you know, some people can afford that no problem. Some people, even if they can't afford it, you know, would not uh would not just want to consider that, yeah, would would not want to pay that. Um I will tell you what we went with. We sort of did the Goldilocks um approach and went with the middle one, which is the Italian private school. It costs so much less than an American private school. Uh I won't get into specifics, but I can tell you the year is 2026, and the school costs less than the private school that I went to a really long time ago. I won't say how many years ago. A really long time ago. So it's um it's it costs so much less than a US private school. But um the I chose it, I wanted it. My husband would have been fine with an Italian public school, that he's a product of Italian public schools, but I wanted a school that had a ton of English instruction. It's important to me that my kids speak English as well as they speak Italian and so forth. Far they do.

SPEAKER_01 44:01

So do all Italian private schools incorporate English education?

SPEAKER_00 44:05

Yeah, private and public does too, but not until later, like I think maybe third grade or something. And then it'll be like one hour a week. And the teacher will be Italian. And so we'll have an accent. And you know, I hear I get this is all hearsay again, but I will never forget the story of a kid, a mom, an American mom had a kid in school here, and the the English teacher pronounced purple purple. Oh yeah.

SPEAKER_01 44:36

So, you know, I what is the amount of English teaching going on in Italian private school that's not international?

SPEAKER_00 44:44

So I looked for one specifically that had a lot of English. You know, I don't know about other ones, but I found this one where they started um English with a native speaker starting in the first year that they went, which is when they were two and a half. So starting in preschool, they had English almost every day, maybe four days a week. The gal came in, I love her. Um she's from Scotland, and uh and spent an hour with them in a added challenge to learning English right there. I she and she doesn't have a Scottish accent, which we joked about. She sounds she sounds English, she does not sound like Braveheart or whatever, like you know, okay the janitor and the Simpsons. It's not like that. So was it the janitor? Um I don't know, but I love that reminder. It's been a while. Um she yeah, so I love her. So she starting from when they were two, would come in like about an hour a day. And then in a couple of years, they start having math and science in English also. So in addition to their English class, and they're gonna start having theater in or drama in English, so also math and science. So they're gonna end up having about half the day in English, and they also take Spanish as a third language. So um I really like that. The other thing I really liked about this particular school is that there's a sports center and like an indoor pool so they can do all their sports there. If you are considering sending your child to an Italian school, there's pros and cons. Um, they're not gonna have sports at school. You have to find that somewhere else, sort of like if you did it at the Y when you were a kid, like I did basketball at the Y. There, there just isn't, I guess it's just not part of the, there's not the real estate attack, you know, in Rome. All the schools are like in urban buildings, and there's no fields or pools or tennis courts. This school has attached to it on campus a sports center, which is also open to kids from other schools. So after school, right there on campus, we just cross the little courtyard and they have swimming, and in the future they'll have whatever else they want to do, basketball, tennis, whatever else they want to do, is all right there. Very rare in Rome. Usually your kid goes to school, and then you are like a you know chauffeur going all over town to their different activities, and they have it all there. So that school for me is was a no-brainer.

SPEAKER_01 47:09

On the sports note, so I have this vision of like life for children in Italy and Europe in general. That is like, well, there aren't any sports teams for kids. It's like somehow miraculously you end up on the soccer national team through I have no idea how anybody gets on that. But otherwise, it's like, well, no, there is no, there's no swim team. There's no like they don't play volleyball, they don't know how to do these things, they don't let alone like, you know, lacrosse field like this is now or like in like they haven't even heard of it. Uh are there sports teams for kids? So for you know, I guess I think about my daughter who's four, who is going to be on the neighborhood swim team this summer. Um, is that even a thing? Or if you make this move to Europe, it's like, well, no, but you can hang out in the city park.

SPEAKER_00 47:57

No, it's a thing for sure. You have to you have to find it. Um, like I said, our school has that attached, and so they can do all of that there. That school has like a And are there teams or it's just like you can come swimming in this pool if you want to, but there's nothing. No, no, no, there is. So it's like a league. And so if you you know are on the swim team, it's just not, you know, the it's uh you don't swim for your school like for me. It was the best school was USN. You're not on like the USN swim team, you're on the you know, Centro Santa Maria swim team, which is your sports complex. And then you compete, you know, against other sports complex teams. Those private international schools I talked about with the gazebos and ice sculptures and they got sports teams coming out there. They play each other. That that would more resemble what the high school experience that maybe a lot of us have, where you know USN is playing Jackson High, you know, uh this afternoon in volleyball. But um I I said to my husband early on, I was like, if our kids, you know, want to play soccer, now they have that school, but how would they? Where's the team? Like, where do you said you would just sign up for your neighborhood you know association, and that's your team. And the association talks to other associations and they play against each other. But check out like Olympic medals. It's it's there are a lot of teams like volleyball and obviously soccer, although for the not in the World Cup. This totally agree.

SPEAKER_01 49:33

Yeah. Well, I mean, though, I mean, if you look at some of those Italian teams, it's like, well, you've got everybody from the US, but in pro-based.

SPEAKER_00 49:42

Pro they're from everywhere. And in the pro sports, they're from everywhere, but obviously the Olympic teams, you've got to be like an Italian citizen. But um Right.

SPEAKER_01 49:50

But even yes, even some of those are like dual not exactly homegrown. Right. Yeah, there was a guy in Italian. It's something that they should think about. Like, hey, do you want to be able to feel, you know, as you're cracking down on the Italian citizenship laws, you know, do you want to be able to field these uh Olympic and professional teams later down the road, you know, particularly the Olympic teams? All right, so but okay, a couple questions have come up in my mind there. So, like, do you feel like there's a sense of neighborhood where you are, where you feel like if you had sent your child to the public school in the neighborhood, do you feel like, yeah, they all know each other? Like they live on the same block and they go to the same school. And or is it like, well, no, we didn't really know who else was going to the school until we got there on the first day and realized, okay, actually, we do know a we've seen a couple of you around.

SPEAKER_00 50:38

My husband really wanted them to go to the pup the neighborhood public school, which he also went to the same school we live in the neighborhood where he was born and raised. That's very Italian, you know. He and the reason was the reason was I don't think he said anything about the academics, or I'm sure he thinks it's fine, but that was not the reason. The reason was because then all your friends are in your neighborhood, and you can just sort of cross the street and be at your friend's house. And in in at his age, his best friends are still people that he went to school with who still live in this neighborhood that's so different from us. You know, we all are like moving and oh, and then my friend, yeah, she moved to California in the sixth grade and that, but we're still Facebook for you know, everybody is still here, and um, maybe not everybody, but his group of friends. They've all been friends since my preschool. And and the school that we go to is only about a 20-minute drive away, which from my experience is nothing. We had kids at my school who were coming from like farms from you know, an hour and away. And um he was concerned that that the the all the the kids that are at the school are all gonna be living in all like corners of Rome, and you'll just never get to hang out with your friends. And um Are you finding that to be true? There's a birthday party. I know your your boys are young. Your boys are young, so there's a birthday party every weekend, if not two or three here, there. Yeah, so we all are we are seeing all of the little playmates and friends every weekend at birthday parties. You know, when they're teenagers, it is it gonna be like give me the car keys to drive, you know, an hour away to go to my friend's house for dinner? I don't know. Um, we'll see, but that's even if that happened, it would be it would resemble my experience, you know, in high school with friends who are living all over the so I hope that answers your question.

SPEAKER_01 52:40

Yeah, no, it does. Are there differences in terms of class size, public school versus pri Italian private school?

SPEAKER_00 52:47

It's it's what you're thinking.

SPEAKER_01 52:49

Yeah, I so my kids public school is bigger, they've got to accommodate everybody that lives in the jurisdiction.

SPEAKER_00 52:53

Yeah, or well, in fact, that that confuses me too. I s I am not even sure how you pick a public school because my understanding is you don't even have to live near that school. So it's not like you're zoned for a school like in the States. I don't get it. I have asked my husband to explain it to me, especially as we were thinking about where our kids were gonna go to school. I was like, so I could go to a public school really far away. His answer was something like, but why would you want to go to a school that's far away? I'm like, yeah, but I didn't ask. I asked if I wanted to. I didn't ask that. Yeah. Right. Um can I do it? Like, you know, he, I think had a cousin who went to some school by the Trevi Fountain, but is from this neighborhood. I I I kind of think you can you just kind of sign up, and if there's a spot, there's a spot. Don't quote me. But yes, uh, I don't have personal experience, but I have one of my best friends taught in a public school and is now in a private school, Italian, an Italian girl. Uh, that the classes are much bigger with fewer teachers. There's like nothing on the walls, so nothing sort of stimulating. You know, there might be a map. Um, and then as you get older into high school, you stay. This is uh this is minutia. This is not maybe a big deal to some people, but you stay with the same 30 kids all day from like eight to three or four, whatever it is. And there's no switching classrooms and switching teachers depending on like, you know, when we were kids, we had advanced class, like baby, baby math, advanced math. You know, I never took calculus. My sister took calculus, I did, you know, or I took, I was in AP history, but maybe you weren't in AP history. There are all these different levels, but they are everybody is in the same class, and there's no room for somebody who is more um, I don't want to say better or worse, but more, you know, naturally inclined versus one else. Yeah. So that that one we're only in preschool, but I I don't know how that's gonna be at our private school, but to me, that's sort of like I don't love that.

SPEAKER_01 55:09

So they are not, even in the private school, they are not going to I'm not sure, either through self-identification or otherwise, separate high achievers from other.

SPEAKER_00 55:20

Yeah, I and I I am not sure how it's gonna go. I it might be one of those things I'm just gonna have to accept. Suck it up, but I don't love that. I don't love that.

SPEAKER_01 55:30

Um also do they track differently in terms of uh where what happens to you after high school in terms of university acceptance? Does the public school track versus the private school track is that different in the same way that it can be different here in the US?

SPEAKER_00 55:43

I don't think anybody struck of that. You know, in my high school, it's like every year, it's like here's where here's the colleges where the class of 2026 is going. And in my high school yearbook, it listed where everybody was going to college, you know. Um, but I don't I don't know how anybody would even know. It doesn't seem to be followed. It doesn't that that that no one is taking down that information. It does not appear.

SPEAKER_01 56:12

Maybe that's maybe there's something beautiful about that in the sense that you you don't think about um this decisions about children's uh preschool and kindergarten years, you're not factoring in well how will this affect their college admission? There's a lot you know, there's something nice about enjoying the moment for what it is and not thinking about, well, what will this be in 15 years?

SPEAKER_00 56:34

Right. And I and I in in about uh gosh, in about 12 years, I'm gonna really start thinking about universities and such. Um, but I still am not sure on how a kid gets into a university or doesn't. There's no SATs, you know, there's no like standard class. Like I don't get it. And my I my understanding is that certain departments at universities have more difficult, like in you'll have a if you want to study law at the University of Rome, there's gonna be a uh difficult entrance exam, but not if you want to study literature, you know. So I I that will be that will that will unfold for me uh and my family, but um there's just in that way it's really different. Again, no SATs, no, you're not you know ranked, I don't think. Um one thing I should say is that high schools have different, have different, I said, you know, there's no room for people who are particularly interested in or naturally inclined for one subject over another, but starting in the first year of high school, the ninth grade, and high school is five years, by the way, so you're 19 when you graduate. Um, but starting in, you know, the equivalent of the ninth grade, you are at a classical high school, a scientific high school, a linguistic high school, an artistic high school, or then something that's really niche, like a you know, technical school for like hotel restaurant management kind of thing. Yeah. So you have to kind of choose when you're 14, if you're gonna go to a scientific high school, a classical high school, a linguistic high school, etc. etc.

SPEAKER_01 58:19

That's if you're in the public system. And private. And private. And private. So you will face this decision even with the school that you've chosen. They will then have to choose a high school that is different, not necessarily associated with the school that they've come up through.

SPEAKER_00 58:33

My art, the school where they go happens to have, happens to offer a classical track, a scientific track, or something like something like a biomedical track, which is even more niche, more specific. Um if they wanted to do the a linguistic high school, they'd have to go somewhere else. Most schools are only one thing or another. Like this is just a classical high school or a scientific high school. Um, like I said, the school has two different high schools in the same building. Uh two or maybe three biomedical. But if they wanted to do an artistic high school, they'd have to leave and go somewhere else. I think it's kind of strange to know when you're 14, you know, whether you are gonna have this path in life or other. Uh there is over, like even if you do the classical high school, it's not just Latin and Greek, you know, you do have to take some math and science, but there's also like a lot of Latin and Greek. You know, so you know, there you do take some classes are you know overlapped or in common that it's like having a major.

SPEAKER_01 59:42

Yeah. Uh all right, last question. How many how many uh ex well I'm not gonna say just expats, but international in some form or fashion students are you finding are at the school that your boys go to and in a private Italian school where in your household you have at one American parent, one Italian parent. How many other families would you say have something that is something other than two Italy-born and raised parents?

SPEAKER_00 1:00:08

A handful. A handful. Um, in my four-year-old class, um there are I think only like two. In my six-year-old class, there's probably like seven or eight out of 25 who have at least one foreign parent. None of them are from the US, none of them are even English speakers. So there's they're, you know, nobody else from um the States or Canada or Australia, whatever. But uh I think I heard of the school the first time because of a Canadian friend here whose daughter is she's way up in middle school now. But uh, so there are other um English-speaking expat people who send their kids to that school. But there's also, I mean, in my son's class, I think there are two Chinese kids, uh Russian, a Romanian, a Korean, so from all over the place. And but the language of instruction is an Italian, with at this age, an hour a day, the English teacher comes in and you know sings old McDonald's or whatever. You know, that's hopefully gonna get a little more challenging. But right, right, right.

SPEAKER_01 1:01:22

Well, fantastic. Uh Liz, is there anything we didn't touch on that you think, well no, the audience needs to know this, whether you think to ask the question, Lauren, or not?

SPEAKER_00 1:01:30

I I did want to say one more thing about Italian healthcare because I said I don't have any complaints. I will say sometimes um I think they go the pendulum swings too far into preventative and thorough. I think maybe sometimes in the States we're guilty of thinking that, you know, national healthcare socialized medicine would be really bare bones, like minimum. And I really think it swings way too far. I shouldn't say way too far, better safe than sorry. It swings pretty far towards um too much testing and surveillance. And so, you know, you go in with a toothache and all of a sudden you're getting uh MRI. Um, I gosh, I don't want to not I don't want to invade anyone's privacy, but people that are close to me who have had really long stays in the hospital for kind of a minor surgery, you know, you in the States you'd go home the next day and you know they stay in the hospital for two, two and a half weeks. I ask why? Oh my god, why are they still there?

SPEAKER_01 1:02:38

You know, I'd be busting out in my I'd have my whatever. I'd have my my my gown on and say I'm out of here.

SPEAKER_00 1:02:45

And then that this is a this is a true story. It was somebody close to me who had a hip replacement and ended up in they stayed for something like 19 days in recovery. It sounds like I'm making that up in 19 days. And I was like, why? And the answer was, well, because they have to do all of this, you know, physical therapy. You can't expect somebody to go home and then drive to physical therapy, you know, if they have just had a hip replacement. A hip, right. Then that's something where you may not be able to drive. I was like, but you people just want to go home, you know, people want to be home. They don't want to be in the little, you know, um, but I mean, um, uh just like sometimes when I go to the doctor, I'm so grateful that they're gonna, I'm gonna see a doctor. It's not like when I was home and you know, this person couldn't was coughing his head off and couldn't get the doctor to see him. On the other hand, it's like, oh my gosh, I have a cough. I need to go to the doctor, but I feel like if I do, they're gonna refer me to, you know, a calf scan or something. Right.

SPEAKER_01 1:03:46

Have my kidneys analyzed. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:03:48

Yeah. When I was pregnant, the doctor was so strict about, you know, what I my blood sugar was totally in normal range. Totally in normal range, even in even for Italians, the normal range. They give you the normal range, but she wanted it even lower, you know. So I think, I think um, I I I think if anything, they're too um cautious or there's so much oversight, but it's a really it's uh it's just a different way of thinking they they really think about it as preventative medicine and and finding things. And they have a longer life expectancy than we do in the US.

SPEAKER_01 1:04:28

A lot longer.

SPEAKER_00 1:04:28

Maybe there's something to be said for that. And and I one day I was on a mission to prove to, I guess it was my husband, that there's more skin cancer and lung cancer here because there's still a lot of smoking and baking in the sun. There still is. And and I it was it was the opposite. Like, even though you know, we smoke way less in the States and we put on all the sunscreen, they've still got less cancer of the skin and of the lungs. I conclude it just has to be maybe better medical care, you know, preventative care, you know, but also um genetics. You said that, but also, you know, just healthier food. I think it cures a lot of a lot of ills. I'm still wearing my sunscreen. I'm wearing it even now.

SPEAKER_01 1:05:12

Awesome. Things never change. I guess it's just ingrained in us. Well, listen, Liz, thank you so much. This has been more than informative. I think we covered some really important topics for somebody that's considering making this move to Italy, Europe, whatever it is. Uh thank you. I I love you, dear. You're welcome.

SPEAKER_00 1:05:31

I love you. And really, like, don't everything, if somebody is watching this six months after we've recorded it, something will have changed. Like something will have changed. Yeah. It changes every day. I mean, just the citizenship laws. It's so uh, you know, dynamic. Right. So it's day to day. Everything has to be Googled. Definitely line up, uh line up a local, you know, expert who can tell you what the tax rules are today, not what they were six months ago, you know, today. How do you? Get your health card today, not six months ago when the rules were different, but it just changes all the time.

SPEAKER_01 1:06:06

But hopefully, hopefully you'll um got hopefully this foundation gives them a starting point of maybe what to expect in general, but check out you know what is the what is current when you go to make this move. Thank you, my dear. This has been fantastic. I can't wait to see you. You're welcome. You're welcome. Thanks so much. We'll talk soon. Thanks so much. Bye. Ciao. Thanks, Liz. That was fantastic. Stay tuned next time, guys, for our next edition of Your Italian Podcast. And in the meantime, check us out on Thursday. We have an aperitivo scheduled this week where we will be discussing the latest updates out of the Italian courts and how they affect Italian citizenship law. And most importantly, stay tuned to us on social media Facebook, Instagram, TikTok, under your Italian passport for all the latest. See you soon.