The Future of Jure Sanguinis with Marco Mellone

Few people understand the future of Italian citizenship by descent better than the attorney arguing it in Italy's highest courts. In this episode of Your Italian Podcast, host Lauren Hopkins sits down with Marco Mellone, founding attorney of Mellone Law Firm and a leading voice in the jure sanguinis litigation now before the Constitutional Court and the Court of Cassation.

Marco represents the families at the center of the constitutional challenges to Italy's 2025 citizenship reform, including the pivotal question of whether the new law can be applied retroactively to claims filed before it took effect. In a clear, measured conversation, he explains what the recent decisions actually mean for descendants, particularly those tracing their line through a great-grandparent (bisnonno) or further back, and why he maintains that citizenship by blood has always been consistent with the Italian Constitution.

If you have been following the headlines with growing uncertainty, this is the episode that cuts through the noise. You will hear directly from the person helping shape how these cases are decided.

Listen to the full conversation. And if you have questions about your own eligibility under the current law, you can book a consultation with Your Italian Passport.

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:24

Good morning, Marco. Welcome to your Italian podcast. What a treat to have you as my guest today. Thank you so much.

SPEAKER_01 0:31

Lauren, it's a great pleasure to stay here with you. Good morning, good afternoon to everybody. And uh a great pleasure to have this conversation with you. Fantastic.

SPEAKER_00 0:42

I think probably you you are known to much of the audience, but I just want to make sure that those watching really know who we have with us today. So for those that don't know, Avocato Marcamolone is what I would describe as the preeminent attorney representing Italian diaspora in this issue of Italian citizenship law that is under attack in Italy right now. And so if you've been wondering, well, who is who is representing us? Who is getting force our position to the courts? It is attorney Marco Milani, without a doubt. And so, Marco, I for my own sake, if if not for the entire audience, I have some just personal questions so that I can have a better idea of who you are. Number one, where in Italy are you from?

SPEAKER_01 1:32

Well, actually, I am from south of Italy. I'm from Naples. I grew up in Naples at the age of 22. I moved uh to Bologna, where I am now. Uh so I graduated from the University of Naples, then I made my master's, PhD, and the rest of the career here in the north of Italy in Bologna. And um I think uh more or less 15 years that I'm dealing with Italian citizenship law uh matter, uh, with cases uh related to the recognition of Italian citizenship by the sand. It's not just, I mean, it's not the all the only matter, the old field of law I deal with, but uh I mean it's definitely one of the main uh I deal with today.

SPEAKER_00 2:26

What got you into this element of the law, citizenship? Why did you choose that?

SPEAKER_01 2:33

I mean, you know, Italian citizenship law and is especially here in Italy is not very well known. This is a first important matter I would like to highlight for you and for your audience, because um not so many lawyers are specialized in this field of law here in Italy. Uh now today Italian citizenship by the Sent became a quite uh uh known and popular matter because you know what happened last year also with the change of law. But uh basically this is a matter which is not so uh uh uh studied by Italian lawyers. And uh this makes also that uh unfortunately sometimes we have some wrong also decisions by the Italian jurisdiction, by Italian courts, and so on, because actually it is a so specific and complex matter subject that if you do not really focus on it, if you do not spend a lot of time studying on it, then there is the high risk that you can make a big mistake.

SPEAKER_00 3:48

Sure. And as much of the audience may know, the challenges to the current law are going on in two different high courts, the Constitutional Court of Italy and the Corte di Cassazione, or as we Americans kind of call it, the Supreme Court of Italy. Can every attorney in Italy argue before these panels of judges, or do you have to have a special qualification to do so?

SPEAKER_01 4:12

No, I mean, you must be admitted to the Italian uh highest jurisdictions. To do this, there are some criteria that you have to match. Uh, generally speaking, you have to have a number of years of experience in the Italian jurisdictions, or you have to pass a specific exam to become a lawyer admitted to the highest jurisdictional courts, which are in Italy, as you said before, the Italian Constitutional Court, la Corte Costituzionale, the Italian Supreme Court, la Corte di Cassazione, and other highest courts.

SPEAKER_00 4:53

Understood. Let's just dive into everything that has gone on in the last, I mean, some would say 15 months, I would say at least 18 months, maybe even going back to 2023 or even the even further back. But starting with what happened on March 28th, 2025, and the emergency decree, did you see this coming at all, or were you as blindsided as the rest of us?

SPEAKER_01 5:20

Well, Lauren, I mean, of course, uh the we had somehow rumors that the government could have taken some kind of measures because the matter of the Italian citizenship by the center was calling the attention of the government, was calling the attention of the political world here in Italy. But of course, nobody could expect that the Italian government in one night could cut in so absurd and wrong way the uh right uh to uh Italian citizenship by uh by descent. Uh so I mean uh it was uh a big uh big surprise, but I immediately tell you that I am not worried for what the Italian government uh did. Because you know, Lauren, I mean, you can uh make a change of law in a good way or in a wrong way. They did it in a wrong way, they could have done it in a right way, I mean, in a way which was somehow consistent with the Italian constitution and with Italian law, but they decided to do in the worst, maybe, of the ways, and this is the reason why, for me as a jurist, this may this give this gives me uh much more hope that at the end of the day we can win this battle.

SPEAKER_00 7:03

And uh one of the challenges to the the law as it stands right now is the use of that emergency decree. Do you think that was proper procedure to use an emergency? Was this a situation that rose the level of needing to use an emergency decree at all?

SPEAKER_01 7:22

I mean, Lauren, uh to be honest, there isn't uh any element in that decree law which is consistent with the Italian constitution and with Italian law, including the fact that the measure was taken by an emergency uh decree, uh decreto legge, an emergency decree. Uh, because actually uh this is not an unforeseeable situation. Everybody here in Italy knew that there are many, many Italian citizens by descent living uh outside Italian territory and that they are entitled since their birth to Italian citizenship. This uh is not something that came up uh yesterday or in March 2025, uh, because the Italian immigration, as you know, took place in the late 19th century, in the beginning of the 20th century, and the Italian law has always established the right to Italian citizenship by descent, uh, so I mean uh just with the evidence that you are descendant of an Italian ancestor. So combining these two factors: the Italian immigration, the huge Italian immigration, and the application of the youth sanguiness since the birth of the Italian state, everybody could know that today, outside the Italian territory, there are millions and millions of Italian citizens by descent. So, this is one of, of course, of the arguments we brought to the attention of the Italian Constitutional Court.

SPEAKER_00 9:13

Sure, that's an excellent point. It's certainly not news that the Italian diaspora exists. On that note, what do you personally think motivated the government to act when it did?

SPEAKER_01 9:31

As I told you before, um Italian citizenship by the center unfortunately become became a business, especially in some parts of the world. Uh a business uh I mean which uh uh caught the attention of the government, uh promotion, uh, Black Friday, and I mean many kind of uh messages which laid here the public opinion think that the Italian citizenship by the cent was just a sort of selling of Italian passports. And this was the reason uh which was taken by the Italian government to somehow uh start this procedure uh of approving of the change of law. Of course, this is wrong. I mean, this is a wrong approach because if someone made something wrong, then you cannot cut a right to everybody. If someone made something wrong, including uh possible fake documents or something like that, you have to of course take a specific and appropriate measure against that problem, but you cannot cut in a horizontal way the right to this fundamental right, because we are talking about Italian citizenship for everybody.

SPEAKER_00 11:04

Sure. I think in short, uh I think what you're saying is a problem may have existed, but this solution is certainly not uh the appropriate legal one.

SPEAKER_01 11:16

Absolutely, Lauren, because uh I mean uh uh we do have we have to understand that uh we have uh we are lucky, Italian people are lucky that we have many Italian citizens outside the Italian territory. The diaspora is an added value for the Italian state, an added value for any kind of point of view, because of course Italian people living abroad they promote the Italian system, they promote the made in, they buy Italian products, they travel to Italy for vacation and so on. On the contrary, an Italian citizen living outside the Italian territory is not a weight for the Italian welfare, because an Italian citizen living abroad does not cost almost anything to the Italian state. So no right to uh to the to access to the Italian welfare system, no uh right to access to social security system. So basically, we just earn from Italian citizens living abroad. We just earn in our system. But unfortunately, once again, this is not something that public opinion here in Italy uh is uh uh aware of.

SPEAKER_00 12:53

Turning to the challenges before the courts, let's start with constitutional court, which had two critical hearings on the 11th of March and just this Tuesday, the 9th of June. And notably, you were excluded, interestingly, from participation on March 11th, and then were able to make your arguments on June 9th. Why do you think, at the risk of getting too complicated for the audience, why do you think the court refused to consolidate your petitions with those being heard on March 11th and just have one hearing where all arguments were heard in March? Why did they refuse to do that?

SPEAKER_01 13:38

Well, I said that during the hearing last Tuesday, I mean, uh there was a urgent reason for which the Italian Constitutional Court decided for the very first time, as far as I know, in its uh uh uh juris in its case law to immediately adopt a decision without uh uh making all the referrals made on that rule be discussed at the same time. Let me explain better. In the Italian constitutional proceedings, when a judge, a local judge, makes a referral to the Italian constitutional court, say, look, dear constitutional court, tell me if this rule is or not against the Italian Constitution. And many Italian judges, all the Italian judges may do this. In this case, four different Italian judges made this referral to the Italian Constitutional Court. The Italian Constitutional Court, however, took just the first one, the one of Torino, the Court of Torino, the first one, um, and decided on the basis of that referral, and not on the basis of the other three referrals made by other judges, Campobasso and Mantovas. Um this made that also the the parties of those cases pending in Mantova and Campobasso, including my clients, were did not have the chance to uh participate in the proceedings before the constitutional court in the case of Torino, and they they had basically to bear passively the effects of those proceedings. So they had to accept the decision already made by the Italian Constitutional Court in the proceedings of Torino. And as we know, that decision is negative. The decision says that the the decree law, the so-called Tajani decree, is valid under the Italian constitution. This is unfair. This was an unfair proceedings. And it was exactly what I uh said during the hearing last Tuesday. Because I was a lawyer who was called actually to uh make 15 judges change their idea that was already taken 30 days before. A sort of internal appeal before the same judges, which is something that does not make any sense. Because, of course, you judge cannot change your idea in 30 days, it does not make any sense. Why? Because uh they had to take immediate decision and uh uh so as the local judges, the national judges, could apply that rule, could apply that that law, the Tajani decree in the local proceedings, and therefore reject the requests of recognition of Italian citizenship by the Sen.

SPEAKER_00 17:14

Why do you think they felt they had to act so immediately? Why wouldn't they say we have other we have other uh requests coming up from other courts to be heard on June 9th? We will not say anything until we have had both hearings.

SPEAKER_01 17:31

Well, I can just give you an important additional information. Um the Italian state shall receive a huge quantity of money from the European Union under the condition that by the 30th of June 2026 a number of proceedings pending before the Italian courts are completed, are finished. It's a target established by uh the European Union by an agreement with the European Union, therefore, all the Italian courts are now running a lot to make all these cases of Italian citizenship and also other kinds of cases to be completed to be finished, so as the Italian state can claim this amount of money from the European Union. So this is also another uh side of the of this history of this said history, because of course behind that there are also histories of human beings of citizens of people, you know, of lives, of investments, of efforts, of uh families, you know.

SPEAKER_00 19:09

That is the first time anyone has told me that, and the first explanation that makes any sense to me as to what might really be going on behind the scenes? For someone who's listening to this who has a case set uh before June 30th, should they, if not for that reason, then perhaps for other reasons, you know, for instance, we have the negative decision from Constitutional Court of April 30th. Should they be asking their representatives to have their case delayed or pushed back?

SPEAKER_01 19:48

I mean, Lauren, of course, each lawyer now is making, is adopting a different strategy. Um for me, the best strategy today at state, at say with the current situation, is to try to get with the local judges uh more time uh the more time the possible because the situation here is very fluid. So at any time we can receive important news from the highest Italian courts, and this news can dramatically change the scenario. So any day could be available, could be uh important for the destiny of the citizenship of many families of Italian immigrants. So I'm trying also to take time with the local judges as far as possible, of course, because if tomorrow, as I suppose, as I think, for instance, the Italian Supreme Court di Cassazione gives us a good ruling, then trust me, the situation is going to change completely.

SPEAKER_00 21:07

That's a great point that you're making. So, Corte di Cassazione had its hearing on April 14th. Could you explain to the audience what is that court in a position to do? I know it's not to this determine if the current law is constitutional or not. What can they do in juxtaposition with constitutional court? Recalling that, and you if you could explain this to me, I would be forever grateful. Meaning, and please correct me where I make a mistake, when they issue a ruling, it can be followed by lower courts and the Ministry of Foreign Affairs, for example, or it It can be left to sit and ignored by both lower court judges and in this particular case, the ministry, as we have seen in certain decisions from the joint section, the 2009-1948 case about women comes to mind. All of this long question is to say could you explain to the audience what is Corte di Cassazione in a position to do? How can they help us?

SPEAKER_01 22:26

Well, the Corte di Cassazione is the key jurisdiction here, because the Corte de Cassazione is the highest Italian court which is deputed to say, in very brief words what the law says, and how the law must be applied in the specific case. Therefore, the courte di Cassazione is the one who tells us if the new rules are or not applicable to already born citizens. I mean to people descendants of Italian emigrants who were not able to file an application or were not able to start the proceedings, but of course they are there are alive. So I mean they already received at birth the Italian citizenship by their parents. La Corte di Cassazione tells us this, and is it is called to confirm us this in this ongoing proceedings before the United States. So the question raised to them was: please tell us if the new rules of the decreto Tayani are or not applicable, applicable to already born citizens, because the decreto Tayani tells us that new rules are applicable to everybody, also to already born citizens. Okay? So the Courticature is called to uh um uh to clarify the scope, the scope of the new rules. Once uh done this, then the constitutional court could be should be called to say if that law as somehow interpreted by the Courte di Cassazione is or not against the Italian Constitution. The problem here, Lauren, was that the Italian Constitutional Court arrived before the Courte di Cassazione and somehow made the job of the Courte di Cassazione because the Italian Constitutional Court saying, look, they are not Italian citizens at birth, descendants of Italian emigrants are not Italian citizens at birth, are Italian citizens just uh starting from the moment in which the consulate or the comune here in Italy uh uh recognize their Italian citizenship. And this is not what the Corte di Cassazione has always stated in 160 years of history of Italian citizenship law. This is the reason why I am waiting uh uh with uh a lot of confidence the incoming ruling of the United Section of the Supreme Court, which is called to confirm that nobody can touch now that right which was already conferred upon the descendants by the law at the time of their birth.

SPEAKER_00 25:57

Just to be a completely clear, do you expect Corte di Cassazione to rule that the current law cannot apply to anyone who was already born as of March 27th, 2025?

SPEAKER_01 26:15

Exactly. This is exactly what I requested to United Sections on the 14th of April. And uh this is exactly what I expected the United Section will say, but not because I'm I mean I'm I'm imaging something out of the world, but because the Court de Cassina has always stated that in its case law. So it's just a matter for them to confirm something that they already said several times.

SPEAKER_00 26:51

It seems to me as an observer of constitutional court that they seem perhaps intent on doing the political work of the current administration if Corte de Cassazione said does what you expect, and which I would personally hope for as well, do you expect constitutional court to say that interpretation of the law by Corte de Cassazione is unconstitutional? Are they simply determined to stop the citizenship recognition process as much as possible?

SPEAKER_01 27:34

Lauren, of course, uh what the Italian Constitutional Court will do is out of our control. Therefore, I cannot exclude this kind of scenario. The Italian Constitutional Court somehow confirms the validity of the new law, but at the same time, the Court of Casatio, the Supreme Court, clarifies that that law cannot be applicable to the past, I mean to already born citizens. If so, descendants of Italian emigrants of third or fourth generation, of course, uh will have somehow the chance to obtain the recognition of Italian citizenship, but just through the judicial system. This is a possible scenario. So also to answer to your to your question you you raised before, uh 99% of times a local judge uh applies what the United Section of the Supreme Court establishes. So it's a sort of realistic decision to um just to use, I mean, a common law uh terminology. So I mean they are basically bound to what the United Section says, it's very, very, very uncommon that a local judge uh takes different uh directions.

SPEAKER_00 29:15

You mentioned that if Corte di Cassazione does what we hope and expect, that the avenue for seeking citizenship for diaspora would only be in the courts. Is that because the Minister of Foreign Affairs, Antonino Tajanni, can choose not to apply that decision to his embassies and consulates?

SPEAKER_01 29:42

Yes, you are right. I mean, the decisions of the United Sectures of the Supreme Court are basically binding for local judges, but not binding for it administration, because it's not a law approved by the parliament. Therefore, it is possible that the administration does not follow it, does not follow the Supreme Court. Uh, and this is exactly what I was trying to describe before: the possible scenario administration versus justice.

SPEAKER_00 30:21

What happens in the event that Corte di Cassazione says this should have no retroactive application to anyone born before March 28th, 2025? And constitutional court says that interpretation is unconstitutional. What does a lower court judge do in the event that those two decisions come to exist simultaneously?

SPEAKER_01 30:50

This is a good question. Actually, it happened very, very, very few times in the history of Italian law that the Supreme Court takes one direction, Italian Constitutional Court takes another one. But should this happen, a local judge, as I told you before, is uh must follow the directions of the Supreme Court or the Court and Cassazione, United Section more in particular. So a local judge may consider valid a law but can exclude its application in the specific case if the Supreme Court tells him or her that uh this that case does not fall within the scope of that law. This is possible and could be a possible classical solution all italiana, so Italian solution, sort of uh you know, uh solution which does not uh uh create any conflict and makes everybody somehow win.

SPEAKER_00 32:06

Do you think of another possibility from Corte di Cassazione is that they say uh we are not saying retroactivity, retroactive application cannot apply to everybody born before March 28th, but they open a door which they kind of already have and say you can still apply if you prove that you began your citizenship recognition process before March 28th of 2025. Is it is that a possible scenario where they don't give us everything we want and say that all persons alive as of 28th March 2025 are exempt from the current law, but we exempt those that are that can prove they had begun the recognition process.

SPEAKER_01 33:00

Well, Lauren, I mean to be honest, I don't think that that date, the 28th of March, will be relevant in the future. Because this is a sort of date chosen in a very casual way by the government. But the Corte di Cassazione has always stated uh Italian citizenship by the centre is a right which is not submitted to any kind of deadline, you can claim it at any time, and for sure, for sure, uh the parliament or the government can cannot today tell you, look, you were supposed to do that one day before the entry into force of the law. Moreover, which are the new conditions uh established by the decreto Taliani are the fact that you are supposed to be born in Italy and your parent or grandparent just having the Italian citizenship. On Tuesday, I said before the Italian constitutional curve that these conditions are simply impossible to uh to fulfill with because uh today you cannot choose your place of birth. Today you cannot choose the nationality of your parents of your grandparents. The legislator could have said, look, you are supposed in the next two or five years to speak Italian fluently, to come and live here in Italy, to uh I mean to watch all the football games of the Italian national team. I mean, wherever you wish, but something in the future, something that you can do, something which is under your control, under your will. You cannot tell today, look, you were supposed in the past to be born in Italy because you can't do nothing today with that. So this is uh this is what uh I mean is completely out of any any any logic. You understand?

SPEAKER_00 35:22

Yes. Uh just out of curiosity, are the judges of the Corte di Cassazione enraged at the timing of the decision of the constitutional court? If it were me, I think I would be feeling how dare you speak so so flippantly and so quickly following your hearing when you know we had we too had an upcoming hearing, as did you? Why have you interjected yourself? Is there no professional respect for one another that that is has been violated?

SPEAKER_01 36:03

Well, I mean, Lauren, I uh I was lucky that, and I am lucky that I am the lawyer involved in both cases before constitutional and supreme court united sections. So what I did the day after the Italian Constitutional Court issued the judgment number 63, 2026, was to immediately send, as attorney involved before the Supreme Court, before the specific case pending uh before the United Section, is to send that ruling of the Italian Constitutional Accord to the Court of Cassazione. And I made the specific request saying, look, dear Corte di Cassazione, do you know what now the Italian Constitutional Accord is telling us? They are telling us that all these people are not Italian citizens at birth, that they lost their Italian citizenship just because I mean they didn't apply uh for they didn't apply for the recognition of Italian citizenship. This is a this is against what you said always. So please tell me which is the truth. Moreover, uh, I mean the Italian Constitutional Court made the Italian Courte di Cassazione feel guilty. Why? Because the Court di Cassazione has always stated that this right was not submitted to any deadline. Therefore, now with this new approach of the Italian Constitutional Court, uh the Supreme Court is somehow guilty because told always to everybody don't rush, don't worry, your right is safe, is not submitted to any deadline. And now the Italian Constitutional Court is saying no, actually, since they didn't claim for the recognition of their Italian citizenship, they lost their status. So, I mean, it is called in Italian legitimo affidamento. Descendants relied on what the Supreme Court always stated, relied on those words. And today they cannot be somehow abandoned with this new uh approach coming from the Italian Constitutional Court.

SPEAKER_00 38:36

Notably, we have not had a press release following the June 9th hearing, as we did following the March 11th hearing from the Constitutional Court. And when I watched you, you very much on June 9th asked them to slow down, step back, pause, and let's think maybe collectively, in light of what Cassazione has to say. Do you think there is any chance that Constitutional Court might re revise its position when they finally issue their order stemming from the June 9th hearing? Or do you think it is of no hope?

SPEAKER_01 39:23

Lauren, uh, I am used to talk about things that are under my uh control. But uh I know that uh I did and we did uh our best. Uh the first uh we we already obtained the first result because the day after the hearing the constitutional court did not issue any press release. So at least at least we have one point, at least. But I mean, apart from that, um the the goal of my intervention of my speech was exactly to suggest them to at least take some time because this is a so crucial decision, and there are other pending cases very relevant, for instance, before the United Section of the Supreme Court, so it's absolutely more reasonable at least to wait for these further elements uh before taking a final a final decision. Um judges paid a lot of attention on what I said. I remember I was there and I looked at the eyes of the judges. I know that uh they are aware of uh the importance of this matter. Um so I suppose that at least this time they will take uh more time to reflect and take the right decision.

SPEAKER_00 41:07

I know that there is a lot of talk about applicants for recognition of citizenship being able to bring their case to the European Union institutions, judicial institutions, to seek a um recourse for a violation of their rights as European citizens. What do you think of the strength of that case? And what is the timeline by which we can expect to know the thoughts of these European Union bodies?

SPEAKER_01 41:42

Well, let's uh first of all let's specify that there are two uh two levels of jurisdiction uh uh uh out of the Italian one. So I mean we have the European Union level, European Union law, which is the rules of the European Union, which also apply in the field of citizenship, and that we also invoked in these cases, and so it is possible that both the prostitutional court or the Supreme Court may refer, may ask for an opinion also to the European Court of Justice in Luxembourg to be sure if this new law complies or not also with the European Union law, because don't forget that an Italian citizen is also a citizen of the European Union. So if you uh actually uh uh revoke the Italian citizenship, you also revoke the right, for instance, to freely circulate in all the countries of European Union, to work in European Union, and so on. So this is the first possible further scenario, okay, which also we invoked. Second level of jurisdiction, I mean, at the European level, is the European Court for Human Rights. Because Italy, as many countries of the European Union, is part of the European Convention on Human Rights. And if you revoke the citizenship to somebody without reason, without logic, then it can be a violation of a human right recognized by that convention. And there is a curve in Strasbourg dealing with this kind of violations. So I also uh I mean somehow anticipate the possibility that. If the Italian constitutional court continues to deny to consider valid this law, and so therefore to uh allow this uh this annulment of the Italian citizenship by the Senate, uh it is also possible that that decision is brought before the European Court for Human Rights. So I can ask the Court of Strasbourg, please tell me if this decision of the Italian Constitutional Court violates or not the European Convention for Human Rights. Because, as I told you before, you are dealing with the matter of the personal life of everybody. If you revoke the citizenship, then that person is not anymore member of a community. It's not just a formal status, it's something very personal. Therefore, it is relevant also under that convention. So it is possible, absolutely, that the next uh step of this somehow novella will be in Europe, will be before one of the European courts.

SPEAKER_00 45:21

In these European courts, European Court of Human Rights, European Court of Justice, what is the timeline for hearing a case? Is it five or ten years? Or when you bring a matter to them, no, you have a decision within uh 12 months. It's possible.

SPEAKER_01 45:38

Well, European uh European uh uh court of justice or court dealing with European Union law, more or less the timing is around one year, one year and off to obtain a decision. Uh the European Court of Strasbourg takes much more time, almost three, four years, depending on the cases. And uh this is the reason why I hope that this matter can be closed here in Italy, not needing to go to the European level, because I know that it takes much more time. And this could be a sort of an official victory for the government, because the the goal of the government was exactly to disencourage people from uh seeking their rights. This was actually the final goal of the government. So I really hope that now in this month of June or July, we finally could have a reaction, a reaction from the Tana state of law.

SPEAKER_00 46:45

Given that timeline of June or July, uh what, if anything, can we, the people of Italian descent throughout the world, be doing or saying to encourage what we would consider a positive outcome? Is there anything the diaspora can do to influence Italian perception by the people of us and particularly perception of us by these courts?

SPEAKER_01 47:20

I mean, Alorna, I of course, uh what I'm going to tell you right now is not because I want to sell my services, but uh uh the most persuasive way uh for the diaspora to make the Italian government understand that this is not the right way is exactly to keep on fighting, to keep on filing claims and claiming for their Italian citizenship. Because this calls the attention of the government, uh they will check the number of cases pending, they will check that the situation is not changing, so people keep on claiming for their rights, and of course, maybe they understand that another solution shall be taken. Because as I told you before, beginning of this interview, there are many other solutions, juridical solutions, there are, okay, which can combine the goal of the government to make this citizenship more effective, and the protection of that right which was already conferred upon by descendants by the applicable law.

SPEAKER_00 48:39

And just to sort of bring it all together, if if we succeed this summer and the right to recognition of citizenship indoors, do you expect something new from the current leadership in Italy in terms of it introducing new elements to the citizenship process?

SPEAKER_01 49:01

Absolutely. So, I mean, this is uh the other side of the coin. If we win somehow, if the Supreme Court uh gives uh I mean agrees with us, then of course I expect also a sort of reaction of the Italian government. Uh, a sort of plan B and uh not necessarily a good plan. So I mean there they could introduce new new restrictions, they could introduce new rules, even worse or more illogical than the current ones. Because you know, once a government takes a direction, you know, then it is very difficult that they change their idea. So people must be ready, descendants must be ready. This is exactly what I'm telling to all my clients. Uh, collect documents, be ready, because if we receive a positive response from one of these curds, be ready to file the day after your claim, because at least you secure that juridical panorama. Because at any time, such as they did on the 28th of March, the Italian government may do a decree Tajani best at any time.

SPEAKER_00 50:32

I agree, Marco Ballone. Thank you so much for your time, your insight, and your dedication to all of us. Uh, somewhere in the citizenship process. We are forever indebted to you, and on behalf of everyone watching, I extend our thanks.

SPEAKER_01 50:51

Lauren, thank you very much for you with to you and all your audience. Let me just say goodbye with some words in Italian for your here for your audience. Un saluto a tutti quanti. Volevo dirvi che bisogna assolutamente mantenere fiducia, speranza, e avere assolutamente fiducia in quello che fino ad ora detto la legge italiana and the giurisprudenza italiana. È una lotta, è una battaglia, ma mantenendo fiducia e speranza, questa battaglia potrà essere vinta.

SPEAKER_00 51:31

I couldn't agree more. Keep the struggle going and have faith, everybody. So, Marco, grazie tanto, ci sentiamo presto, buona giornata!

SPEAKER_01 51:49

Grazie anche a te, goodbye to everybody. Ciao ciao,