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Canyon Springs: From Promising Practices to Model PLC
Follow Canyon Springs Community School as it works towards Model PLC status through conversations about new and ongoing Professional Learning Community (PLC) practices at the school with the teachers inside the classrooms. Get invested in the student growth and learn the systems and practices that are having the greatest impact on student learning at Canyon Springs.
Canyon Springs: From Promising Practices to Model PLC
Episode 14 - The Canyon Springs 3rd Grade Professional Learning Team Talks Collectively Analyzing Assessment Data
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On the 14th episode of Canyon Springs: From Promising Practices to Model PLC, listen in on the PLC journey with Canyon Springs as we work to be further recognized as a Solution Tree National Model PLC school. This week, join the Canyon Springs 3rd Grade Professional Learning Team (Jackie Rivera and Elyssa Arroyo) as they talk through their work in collectively analyzing assessment data to define next instructional steps, improve assessment tasks to better match learning targets, and how making collective assessment steps prior to a unit of instruction is making them be better teachers.
References:
PLC 4 Questions Flowchart - W. Richard Smith
Design in Five by Nicole Dimich
Literacy in a PLC @ Work by Paula Maeker and Jacqueline Heller
For more information on or about this podcast, contact Matt Gilpin:
mgilpin@sssd.k12.ca.us
Good morning. We hope you are having a very, very good start to your learning day. Welcome to the Canyon Springs from Promising Practices to Model PLT podcast. I am your host and the principal of Canyon Springs Community School, Matt Gilpin. Today is a really fun day. So I had to chase this group of guests a little bit more than you just heard Carolyn Davenport, who volunteered to be on the podcast. This one I did chase. We ended up here with two-thirds of our third grade PLT. So we're very excited for another full team episode. We have Miss Jackie Rivera, who has been a teacher for five years, third year in our district. We have been lucky enough here at Canyon Springs to have her for two years, the last two years. Just as you've been hearing a lot about these last two years, Jackie Rivera has been right in the mix. This is her first year in third grade. She taught first grade last year. I love her in third grade, and I love what she's doing. We're going to talk a lot about her. She loves to espouse that she's more confident in math. She's a brilliant math teacher. She's also a brilliant language arts teacher. So thank you for being here, Miss Jackie Rivera.
SPEAKER_01Thank you for having me.
SPEAKER_03Absolutely. We have been chasing you. So it isn't like a thank you, right? And our returning guest from the very first episode of this podcast, we have learned so much since you were a guest, Miss Alyssa Rhode, just to remind you who she is. She is a member of our guiding coalition. She is a third grade teacher. She has been at Canyon Springs for the last two years. I don't remember how long you've been teaching as a career. Um, but you are doing some of the lead work on assessment, not only just the philosophy behind assessment, but also some of the practical action work. And we're gonna talk about you guys today in third grade. So thank you for being here, Mr. Royal.
SPEAKER_00I'm excited to be back.
SPEAKER_03Fantastic. And again, we've gotten a little more professional. We have a third microphone set out today. It's very exciting. Okay, third grade team. Before we get into the work we want to go to today, we always ask this question. We have asked Mr. Royal this question, so we're gonna direct it to Miss Jackie Rivera first. Prior to Canyon Springs, what was your experience with professional learning community or PLC?
SPEAKER_01Well, at my previous district, I have heard PL's the acronyms PLC coming around. I never learned anything about it. I just know that what we call our meetings is PLC. PLC here, PLC there. I have never really seen an organized way of how PLC works. I just thought that when teachers meet, that's what we call PLC.
SPEAKER_03It was like a destination.
SPEAKER_01It's like a destination. Yeah. When not more of a movement.
SPEAKER_03Oh, I love the way you said that. It is true. We've talked about that. I think that was your one of your similar answers, Mr. Royal, right? Was that um PLC was like, we're gonna have a PLC meeting now.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, yeah. Just more like time to work with your team members.
SPEAKER_03And I love it. So okay, Jackie, I'm going right back to you because I didn't know you were gonna say it's like a movement. I need you to give more. Yes, now you're tapping your head, the light bulb went off. So now I need you to give more information about what do you mean by it's a movement? Because I love it. I love where that comes from in your head. Before you pull out any research, I want you to answer this. What do you mean behind the PLC movement?
SPEAKER_01Oh, for me, I when I meant movement, I meant like a whole school working together for student success. It's not just, hey teachers, let's just plan for the next week, instead of hey, these are our kids. What are we gonna do to have them be successful for the next school grade? And then there's no there's no we, it's more like this grade level versus this grade level. There's no interconnection. All of us staff in school are moving together instead of separate.
SPEAKER_03That is, and I mean to cut you off. I I do too. I I I won't show you my arms, they actually have goosebumps on them. But um, but it's such a way to describe collectedness, like the collective approach of you said the phrase we in there. Um so brilliant, brilliant job. Okay, so that takes us to kind of the practical conversation we want to have here today. Um, we always reference back to this um W. Richard Smith poster, the flowchart, our PLC flowchart that we follow. It has the four PLC question marks in questions in blue. What do we want all students to learn? PLC question one. How will we know they have learned it? PLC question two. How will we respond when learning has not occurred? PLC question three, and how we respond when learning has already occurred, PLC question four. Third grade PLT, I turn it to you. Where do you think this conversation is gonna take us a what are you hoping to give some answers towards?
SPEAKER_01I would say uh me, both me and Arroyo uh have been very confident where in our blue where we say, how will we know they have learned it?
SPEAKER_03Okay. So we're gonna center on question two, you're thinking?
SPEAKER_00Yeah, I would say that and it also bleeds into question three. How will we respond when learning has not occurred is kind of where we've been living this year.
SPEAKER_03Absolutely. And we've talked about that in the past. That's Canyon Springs still, while we are dying to get deeper into the work with PLC question four and some of that um enrich and deepen. Um, we are still an intervention-focused school. It doesn't mean the others don't exist, but we have um we're working with students that that are still reading below grade level, performing at mathematics below grade level. So a lot of that work is in question three. Okay, and so looking at then back at this flowchart, you have kind of the yellow action steps. I think, Mr. Roy, you called them buckets of work um earlier. Um, what are some of the yellow action steps that that we're gonna be discussing today?
SPEAKER_00Uh we analyzing data and then planning based on the results from CFAs or CSAs. Um, and then we also will talk about reteaching or planning small group intervention and then steps to reassessing students.
SPEAKER_03That's a lot. And I love them a lot. So so I guess what I want to ask is knowing that there's so many action steps based on needing to be taken, where what is the guiding force behind how you know where to take steps? Like what actions have you taken that you think bleed into answering some of these questions, or kind of the focal point of something that an area that is helping you to take steps into these actions?
SPEAKER_00Well, we we built a lot of assessments together as a team, and then it just made it really clear because it was broken down by learning target to know what the needs were of the students. Um, so we started a protocol for analyzing data together. Um, we did on our last two assessments, um, and it really helped break down exactly where all of our kids were between the three teachers. Um, and I know it is a lot, but it all kind of fits together.
SPEAKER_03Oh, Mr. Vera, I love a good phone call. No, Kira, you gotta take it. Oh, she you should see her face. She do not know it's alarm. You're like every good teacher. You have alarms going off at any point of the day. Wonderful. Okay, keep going.
SPEAKER_00It's just so much together. So it's like hard to just like only pinpoint one because they are all so interconnected. Um, but analyzing the data and then planning results is kind of where a lot of our work was.
SPEAKER_03And I think that's brilliant. I want to throw this out to both of you is because you talked about the fact that there is so much interconnectedness and you talked about the movement uh of being a PLC at work school, is and this is not uh planned, it just the question popped into my head is looking at the four PLC questions and kind of the yellow action steps that we talk about. Do you think it works? And this is just an opinion question, do you think it works to be hyper focused on one of them and kind of forget the others? Or is it a like a collective approach to all students? Is it a collective approach to just keep working on all of them at the same time?
SPEAKER_01I think uh for I'm just saying on behalf of me and Miss Arroyo, uh, we have the same brain wavelength where we cannot just multitask in our brains. Uh and I think that's why we work together and we work as a team because for me, I I'm pretty sure she feels the same way. I mean, stop me if it's not, but I would say that for it gets overwhelming. It gets overwhelming, and if we're overwhelmed, students are overwhelmed, and for me, this is guiding me. And I if hyper hyper focusing is the goal, and if it's working, then I mean it works for us to still to have a small goal for now, and then now we're getting used to it. Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_00So we like start with building assessments, and then we like added something to that, and then added something to that as we got more comfortable. Um but we we weren't like afraid to try together.
SPEAKER_03And I think that's what I'm hearing from you is, and let's be honest, what I've observed from you guys is it really is a hybrid approach. What you talked about, Mr. Vera, is your team is very observably like this is our focus of today's PLT time. We have to build this assessment, and we're gonna talk about this. And I I've seen you guys calibrate by both taking the assessment or really rehash a task. But then at the same point, once you've invested in that, it isn't just continue investment in that lane because you're not afraid to try something new. So then it's okay, but now we haven't really worked at analyzing it. Now we need to analyze it, but you haven't lost track of that. So it is this like I know you said you can't multitask, but it is this almost like week by week multitasking of focus. That was a terrible sentence.
SPEAKER_01It's more like uh I think getting used to one task first and then now uh putting one more into it. Yeah, exactly.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, does that does that give you the confidence to take the next risk?
SPEAKER_01Yes. I mean, it's small steps, right? Small steps is better than just not jumping at all.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, so like where we could focus on many of things at once, we did try to like just really get good at one thing, but not forgetting about the rest. Like we knew it's there, like we know it's there, and then we'll try to add in as we can. Um it's more about polishing it. Yeah, or like we got better as we as the year went by. Like building an assessment now is like a lot easier than it was our very first time.
SPEAKER_01And now we're analyzing data. It's we're we're pretty, I mean, I'm I'll be honest, we're pretty bad at first, like getting track getting um keeping track of all these things. Yeah. And now we have a system, and now it feels a little bit easier for us.
SPEAKER_03Yes, I mean, I don't again, Rivera, where did you come from? I have goosebumps again to say, I'm sorry, I'm laughing. To say, I mean, you you just described everything that we want everyone to be, is that we weren't very good at first. Like, but we didn't then quit. You know what I mean? It's not me in fourth grade at piano, like, because I'm not very good, I quit. Like, we weren't very good. So we tried it again, we honed this again. Okay, and that's gonna take me to um the first piece of research that I'm hoping to talk about. It's from the book Design in Five. I think this might have been the book you and I referenced on your episode as well, Miss Arroyo. But if you have that book by Nicole Dimitch and in front of you there, on page 164, um, I'm gonna read a short section, and I just want to kind of go back, and I think it pertains to a little bit of some of the analyzation topics that you're now stepping into. And so it goes like this. It's it's on page 164, there's a section 10 that says analyze the end of unit assessment data to calibrate scoring and plan intervention. And the first paragraph in that section reads like this Collaborative teams analyze information from the end of unit assessments, the scores by learning goal and by student, or the actual student work from the assessment. This process is similar to analyzing formative data, like in step eight or whatever. And and you heard Mr. Royal talk about CFAs and CSAs, so common formative assessments and common summative assessments. However, and this is the part I want us to really think about, the intent is for teachers to move for to the next unit after administering the end of unit assessment. When teams commit to ensuring students will learn, they also analyze these assessment data so they can provide additional instruction to those students who may need more time on the most essential standards or learning in that unit. Sometimes this occurs during tier two intervention, where students learn more on the essential learning or extend their learning during a designated time during the school day. Other times, teachers may build time into their daily lesson sequence, especially if many students have not yet mastered the essential learning. In addition, analyzing student work helps ensure the assessment was as accurate as possible. If there are flaws in the assessment, which sometimes students reveal by how they respond, teachers can toss out those items and revise the assessment for the following year. Okay, I know that was a lot, but it's so much of what I've observed you guys doing. So go. What do you guys think of? What inspires you? What did you pull from this, or is this brand new to you? Tell me where that your brains are after hearing this.
SPEAKER_01Uh, first of all, collaborative teams. Uh, every time, so uh let me just pull also our model which says what do we want all students to learn? That's definitely our first thing. Like, what do we expect them? One example would be two-step problem solving. What would we want them to do? And I like I said collaborative team, collaborative teams because every time we want to understand any math target, we would um consult, uh we would ask for advice from Ms. Remulin, which is our maths um, you've heard, yeah, Ms.
SPEAKER_03Remulin, you heard her, I think it was episode three, uh member of a guiding coalition, our math toosa. Absolutely.
SPEAKER_01Yes, and I I like that we're not afraid to ask. And we're not afraid to say, hey, we're not really fully understand. We want to learn how to understand it. And so I I like that we work in in that kind of team where we're comfortable asking for help.
SPEAKER_03Absolutely.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, because we're both like this is only my second year and third grade, so I'm not like super well-versed year after year, like what the students need. Um, so we ask her, like, hey, this part of the standard or of these essentials, like which one can we omit or like spend less time on? And she will happily sit with us and tell us kind of like her thoughts, and then we use a lot of what she says to help guide um like how we're planning like the learning ladders and the learning progression, which then helps us build our assessments.
SPEAKER_03And I think that's brilliant. And a lot of that work you're doing prior to assessment. I want to take steps into what you're doing post the assessment, right? Right. Like, and so and no, and and and and that's it, and what I love is that it's a full sick, it's a full cycle, right? It's a cyclical effect, like knowing what mastery is before you ask students to demonstrate it and get to it if you don't know what it is, what are you possibly asking them to achieve?
SPEAKER_00Exactly.
SPEAKER_03Right. And so you take the steps there, but then after they have taken the assessment, the common assessment that you've developed as a collective team, what steps have you taken, be it be it outlined in this research or just through your own experience, have you taken to then also help the instruction going forward?
SPEAKER_00I would say two things. So like it mentions like knowing when to do or like what to do with the students after the assessment. So like pulling kids from tier two. So it's very easy to see, like, especially if we break down the learners based on learning target, like on our template, we have like where we can put based on percentage. It's really clear to see like which kids need what. And it also helps us know, like, when we have our student reflections, like how to communicate that to them so they are they still see where they're successful, but maybe like an area that they still need to grow in. Absolutely. Um, so that really helps lend itself to for reteaching, and then also you can see like, oh, this many kids didn't get this lesson at all. So maybe I need to go back. Yeah, like it gives us an opportunity to talk to each other, like your kids did a little bit better. What did you do? And you've like Miss Godfrey, she had a lot of excellent ideas than we asked her when we had our conversation. So it's just easy to um like have that opportunity to share those kinds of things. And I will say, like, we're I mean, Jackie and I are really comfortable with each other, so I don't think there's any judgment between like how she's doing it versus like my class, and we're just showing up as learners, like she mentioned. So I'm really lucky like that that is the relationship that we've built together because we don't take things like personally, like if she gives me a suggestion or vice versa, like I don't think we take it like as a hit on us as a teacher.
SPEAKER_03Do you think having, and we're gonna get into kind of your analysis your data analysis protocol that you worked on the last couple of assessments? Do you think having a template protocol has eliminated some of the personal out of it? You know, taking out some of the not pride, that's not the right word I'm looking for, but some of the like personal attachment.
SPEAKER_01I would say so too. Um, looking at our data as well, it's like both celebrations or things that we can learn. And it's very like student forward instead of a teacher, yeah, a personal teacher offense. Yeah. Yeah, it's more on the learning side for students.
SPEAKER_03And so I where this conversation came from, to be totally transparent, is I've observed you guys kind of as a team. You're a you're a team that has heads that turn into each other, right? When it when the staff meeting is kind of done and we go to PLT time, that that that weekly time where grade levels can can pull do the professional learning team collaboration. Um, you guys are one of the teams that be that is much more assessment driven at this point than even like essential learning driven. While some grade levels are still kind of hashing out what mastery looks like, you guys have taken the other approach and divine mastery through assessment. And what does that look like? Can you is there an anecdote out there where I where you have looked at an assessment? I think one of the phrasing in this Nicole Dimage is like the task had a flaw to it or something along the side. Is there okay? I said this and both eyes rolled and like looked at each other. Okay, I'm gonna get out of the way. What task had a flaw in it? Tell me this story.
SPEAKER_01Fractions. We've had five. Oh, just all fractions are flaws. But we had multiple, um, multiple flaws in our assessment, which is, I would think it's normal just because we are starting out learning how to make an assessment. And we're so we're so concentrated, making is so targeted that sometimes we it it is normal and it's very human-like to just make mistakes because you're just so hyper focused on things, and you don't see things until students take it.
SPEAKER_03Because you see what's in your brain, right? Not what's in a third grade brain. Okay, so be specific. What mistake did you make?
SPEAKER_01So in we made a fraction bank as a spark question. Okay, and they can use the fraction bank to answer the fractions uh via visual form. And there was two images that were the same exact um fraction, but in the in the third grade mind, they would say, I already used one-fourth. Uh-huh. This is another one-fourth. So it must be the other one that's not canceled out, which is three-fourths.
SPEAKER_03It must be something different.
SPEAKER_01Yes. And so for us, it's like we didn't see that. It's a flaw in the assessment.
SPEAKER_03Okay, so hold on. Let me let me because my brain, I think, took 30 seconds to get there. Like a third circuit, right? So you had like say take two circles split into fourths, one with one quarter of it shaded. They're both four. Another one with three quarters of it shaded.
SPEAKER_00They're both one fourth. They're both just one. So like I think it was like eighths or something. One was like triangle shaped, and another one was like a diamond shape.
SPEAKER_01No, the other one's circle, and the other one was diamond. Yeah. They're both one-fourth, but because of there's a fraction bank, um, they already canceled one-fourth from that circle. And they thought okay. So you see the flaw.
SPEAKER_03What'd you do about it?
SPEAKER_01Oh, we took away the bank. We we immediately talked as a team and say, I don't think they need the bank. Yeah.
SPEAKER_03Okay.
SPEAKER_01Because it confuses them. If they can, if they know how to um decipher what fraction this is, they don't need a bank.
SPEAKER_03Did we keep keep going?
SPEAKER_00So, like what happened was like we saw it happening in real time, and we would know, like, maybe it'd be a student who got the other one correct, or we knew based on how they were learning like during the lessons and things, like they know how to identify fractions. Um, and we would follow up and ask them, and then after the test would be over or whatever, we they would tell us, but the exact response, like, oh, but I already used it. Like they would tell us, and then we would ask them, well, what is this? And they were able to tell us. So we wouldn't like um dock them because on the test, they used the wrong one because they're telling us they could do it. So then we knew to take it off, and so now it's not on the assessment for like next year.
SPEAKER_01And it's funny because after they took the test, all of us went to the middle pod like real quick after the map. And then Miss Godfrey went in first. Uh, there was a flaw in the test. I said, we know. We know.
SPEAKER_03But I think what's so exciting, because I again I've been pretty open with the staff and on this podcast that so much of the the PLC movement to which you talk about in the beginning of this, I was never actually a classroom teacher within. I'm learning so much about it from a leadership standpoint and then tasking you guys all in the classroom to then modify some approaches. I think back to those days, I was an upper grade elementary teacher when it was like, let's take math. We're talking about math here, and it was like math test day. It was like a I just like took a breath. Like they got to take a test. I would sit. I'd walk the room to make sure nobody was cheating, but it was like I was waiting to get feedback from the paper after they completed it. That makes sense. And again, I'm not even getting into the assessment creation. I mean, it was a it was a curriculum assessment. So I'm not even getting into that. I actually just mean the physical action of proctoring an assessment. It was this story you just told me is so much more interactive. Like you said, you heard in real time that I don't know that I attribute that to being a PLC process, but just a byproduct of caring so much and wanting to know the feedback about the assessment to make sure it's actually targeting what is essential.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, there's um another example where um I think like one of the questions didn't match the um like we had like a multiple choice question with like a learning target where they had to describe something. So we've already no, we've already seen other changes we've had to make.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_00Um but we've had opportunities to like talk to the students and have them explain their their thought process on things. Like let's say they did have to, because we've had a lot of conversation around this, like students like with reading comprehension in particular, like what exactly do we want, like, is the is the um goal for them to write a sentence, or is it that they understand what they read and can apply like what we've been learning, like about cal character analysis, for example. And so we're able to make that kind of decision together, um, so that it's when the kid does do the assessment, we we know if they're able to do like identify like a character trait versus if they can write it.
SPEAKER_02Yes.
SPEAKER_00So then we're able to use that information and build on what they need versus just like, oh, you couldn't write it, then therefore I don't think you know how to do character analysis, even though they might.
SPEAKER_01Exactly.
SPEAKER_03No, no, go ahead.
SPEAKER_01I would say it's part of accommodation or modification. And uh we like like she said, we've had conversations about this since I do have a couple of students that do need a translator. Uh and when we we we had an conversation where we say, well, are we gonna provide them that iPad that translates sentences for them? What are we targeting? Are we targeting math if they can write a fraction? Or are we targeting if they can understand without using that um device?
SPEAKER_00Or like same with like reading the text, like maybe they're still a struggling reader, but can they apply like the the the task or whatever? Even like so, then we'll we'll norm like okay, these these group of students, like we can read the text to them. Well, maybe these ones they do it individually, but we have that collective decision. So before the assessment takes place.
SPEAKER_03And I think that allows the data analysis to be viable.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, and accurate, exactly.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, is having those conversations prior to so that they're calibrated and it goes that way. Okay, so so much brilliant work there. Again, both prior to it, calibrating, having those conversations, then immediately after when all doors to the pod open and be like, oh my gosh, there's a flaw. It's as if you won the lottery, but like reversed. And um, and so then, okay, but then that takes you into the template, the protocol that you're talking about. And again, to get into where this uh this conversation started from is my observations as your principal, like during those PLT times, like watching your heads turn in, really turn out, turn um and start talking about assessment. And then, Mr. Royal, you kind of emailed me like a completed one. Um, this team, by the way, is very good at Google Docs tabs. You guys are leaders in Google Docs tabs. So, um, but being able to read through your uh data analysis kind of protocol, it was as if, like, as a person who was not in the conversation with you, I was like, oh yeah, I know exactly. Like I could follow it and know exactly what you're talking about. And so, Mr. Royo, as you and I were kind of talking about where did this come from? And of course, this is who we are now. I'm like, I don't want to talk to you about this yet. Let me put microphones and headphones on you, and then let's talk about this. And a little sheepish that we are that way, but it's fun that way. And um, and so you said, well, I I I took a lot of it from the team's data analysis protocol from um our friend Paula Maker and her co-author Jaclyn Heller's book, Literacy and a PLC at work, guiding teams to getting going and get better at grades K through six reading. So if you have that book in front of you, on page 81, there's a gray section, and it really is just outlining five um organizational parts of a data analysis, the team's um process protocol for analyzing data for evidence of instructional effectiveness. So, number one, it says name. Name the unit by genre or focus and list the essential standards and learning targets that were assessed. Two, celebrate reading data or this math data or whatever data, celebrate the data to determine overall gains and strengths as a grade level and for each class, all classes and students are accounted for. Three, discover overall areas in need of continued support as a grade level and for each class, ensure that all classes and students are accounted for. Four, organize support by student, by learning target, and by proficiency level or need. And then five, plan responses by determining which strategies will be most effective to respond when students do and do not learn. So again, I don't know the collective brain, whether it whether it was one brain or the other that said this is what why was this the protocol that spoke to you as a team?
SPEAKER_00Well, I was looking through like my stack of books. Um, and I was trying to find one that like works for like that I could understand. Um, and so hers was pretty clear. And when I did do PLC at my previous um school it or like when I was doing mentoring, a lot of I had to do a data analysis with my mentee, and part of it kind of follows this, like celebrating student success, which I really liked. So I tried to bring that in, and I liked that Paula's had that listed like at the top. Like I do that first, yeah, not even at the end. Um, and it was just easy to follow. Um, and it helps guide your time together because um you don't have a lot of there's not a huge chunk of PLT time, so it just keeps the focus very clear. Um, and it's just I wanted something like I my brain, like I need steps, like I need a plan to follow. And so this just kind of works for me. And I was like, okay, guys, we're gonna do this. We're gonna fill this out at our next meeting. Uh, and then we just did it.
SPEAKER_03Okay, Jackie, she comes to you and says, We're gonna fill this out at the next meeting. What's you what do you think?
SPEAKER_00Well, I'm curious to know like what to say.
SPEAKER_01Uh I'm a type of person that I'm willing to learn. So I'm like, I'll get up on that horse and be with you. I will uh I'm will I'm willing to try a lot of things to help me learn. And um, so I just did not question it.
SPEAKER_03Okay.
SPEAKER_01As a team member.
SPEAKER_03You yes. No, and and and that's true. I understand that you are. You are um a very, very good student of teaching and and very, very curious. You've been that way since we got to meet you, very much so. And and that's always been a defining characteristic of you, and and fantastic. Okay, so you have a blank protocol in front of you, you have a stack of assessments. There are two, if not three, of you, because the structure of this team, and we are missing Kylie Godfrey, she's under the weather. Um, but there's a structure of you where Jackie Rivera, you are straight third grade class, Alyssa Rowe, you are two three, and Kylie Godfrey is a three-four. How does that happen though?
SPEAKER_01Um, I would say, so I like that you said stack of assessments because that's definitely where I started in my brain. I am checking all these things. She gives me a paper. Okay, I like this not needing emerging, not needing emerging proficient. And in my brain, it just feels so cluttered cluttered. And from our meeting with um Paula Maker, when I saw this, it came to my brain, and she has a graded template where it calculates it for you. Okay. And so I kind of put one together, I applied both in my brain, and I'm like, wait, what if we already separated into target? And then we can put in scores for kids, it would be easier for my brain, and then it's easier for us to talk about it.
SPEAKER_03Well, because what again, going back to like a Google Forum or an Excel spreadsheet that does some calculating for you to make your life a little easier, that you can because at this point, when starting the data analysis, you're not at the point where you need to know what this specific student got on. You're looking for trends.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, yeah. So, like we pre-did work on our own, like we had everything scored already. We filled this out so that we wouldn't have to do, you know, a lot of that legwork during our PLT time. And so then it's pretty clear to see like it's just it pops out. Like you can see like those the scores. And so, and then we broke it down by student. Um and then from there we kind of talked about it just lends the conversation really easily. Okay, oh Miss Rivera, like your kids got this percentage and one of these learning targets, whereas maybe mine scored a little bit lower. Like, what did you do? And so we were it just helped us share like strategies or what we did in class, or like um it also helped us when we were doing the one on character analysis, like I um we all started with like a novel for this unit, uh, and then I kind of ditched that plan uh because I it just wasn't working like schedule-wise with my split. And but the other two teacher, the other two kept with their novels, and we kind of discovered that the assessment, um, because it was like a short uh article versus like reading a full story, like being able to identify some of the character analysis elements that we were looking for uh was harder to do with like a novel in the time frame that we had, and we wouldn't have known that if we didn't like have the time to talk about it afterwards.
SPEAKER_03And I but also what kind of uh we talk about this all the time, and I'm hoping to get there, and it's like almost one of those like pie in the sky dreams that like, well, once you look at your data, we can discuss the instructional strategies that take place. But it's interesting because my observation, and I could be wrong, is that as you lend it into PLT, you do also lend into doing similar instructional strategies, you know, like, oh, you taught it that way, and so some of that's happening in real time. So are there really different instructional strategies taking place towards the same learning target? And then you had one that for whatever reason was brought to you. It's fascinating that it actually took place and it in you were able to have that conversation that said, hey, the way we assessed it lent itself more to shorter text.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. And because like you can't uh because we're not really assessing if they comprehend, like if the the story, right? And so we have to do like a shorter text. And so then we kind of realize, okay, we have to also embed shorter texts uh like throughout our lessons if we still want to do the novel study, but we also have to make sure to include that because uh then they're not prep, we're not preparing them fully for the assessment.
SPEAKER_03And I'm not in any way being negative about novel studies. I mean, I again I was in a fourth grade class today just espousing my love for the book Greg or the Overlander, which I do really love the book, Greg or the Overlander. And I was so excited that they were going to be reading it. But it's true, I can't think of a I don't want to say, an actionable assessment that's here's a novel.
SPEAKER_00Right.
SPEAKER_03Like that that's not a short-term assessment, that's a long-term project, you know, especially for a third or fourth grader to read a novel. Um, that's fascinating. That's really cool. That's a wonderful experience you you had going about it. Okay, so at the top of your data analysis, the Teams protocol, the kind of the template that you built, I want to point out a blank box.
SPEAKER_00And the SMART goal. The smart goal.
SPEAKER_03I don't mean, and I but because we are, we're as a site, we're still hashing out smart goals. And it's it's an area we're we're gonna need to work on, but because there are some philosophical, nobody's against writing goals. But put you on the spot here. If you were, well, I forget which one I'm looking at. Am I looking at character analysis in front of you? Uh, if you were to write a SMART goal prior to it or even now post, what where we get stuck a lot is percentages.
SPEAKER_00Right.
SPEAKER_03We get stuck on percentages.
SPEAKER_00So we did write, okay, so okay, I don't mean to call it your blank box.
SPEAKER_03I don't mean to say that.
SPEAKER_00Something about me is like, if I get told, okay, you gotta start doing this, like the next day I'm gonna apply it. So like I remember when you asked us, okay, teams, you start writing smark goes. I was like, okay, Jackie, we gotta write smarkle. And so the compliance, we're gonna write this. So we did one. Um, we did not hit this. We were so far. Yeah. But but it's okay, like, because then it just helped us like so. Then we had to talk with Paula Maker about writing smarkles again, right? Um, and like kind of how that's gonna work at our school. And uh we didn't have them ahead of time just because like it's something we would forget to do. But now moving forward, I think I don't know, we haven't really had a conversation about it too much, but it's funny.
SPEAKER_01The last time we had this conversation, you were saying, is it really 80% that's proficient? And I'd like to be 80, or like what can we start it at? Right, yeah, right, right, right. So we had this, it was our it was a back and forth. Like, what is pref what does proficient look like? Is it 80% or better, or can we, it's like a lower it down? I said, I think it's I mean, for me, I just feel like proficiency means 80% and above because that's what we're used to, right?
SPEAKER_03And I think that worked, and again, but I love that you have the conversation. And I think as a site, we get hung up on smart goals because we sell because of the phrase 80%, right? It's like, well, we we know that there are times when we give an assessment and it won't be 80% of our students that demonstrate mastery. And so there can be a self-defeating moment of, well, we want 80%. That's what it is. And so I know that. And and and again, you never want to predetermine, there's never those moments, but as we are developing our our our students as readers, as mathematicians, the momentum is gaining that we will get closer and closer and closer. But is it okay to write a smart goal that says 50%? And is that genuine to all students learning high levels? I don't know the answers. I'm just throwing out the things that I think we think about.
SPEAKER_01Not even that. It's probably or probably we can even say that where your SMART goal would be target number two.
SPEAKER_00It could be or we could I feel like I feel like this like creating a SMART goal can just be kind of like what your team maybe wants. Like I don't think it has to be so uniform. I can't. Oh, like so. Maybe yeah, like because for example, character analysis, we reference it because we have our sheets right in front of us. But like it's our it was our second round. So let's say we had the data from the previous time, we could see we could base it off that, okay. Um, overall was I don't know, 45% or something like that. We could say, like, okay, next time maybe we want 60%, and we can use it as a baseline and kind of grow as each unit goes by. But I think we could also do say, like, well, this learning target, the rest were okay, maybe just this one. So we want to maybe just focus on one learning target. I don't know if there's like a right or wrong.
SPEAKER_03I don't, and I I don't, I'm just fascinated by what you're saying. I love the fact that the concept is write a goal specific to a learning target, especially, and then to go even deeper to what you just said, and and maybe you can you can expand on it more, because I you're not the only grade level at Canyon Springs that that talks about this, but that you just said it was our second round of tier one instruction on character analysis. And so if I know some of our upper grades have talked about that with main idea and key details, it within the essentials, it's kind of like the the the main the the most essential of the essentials. And so is it I think it's really fair to see to get tier one, round one is is the baseline, and then when you after you do a little bit of intervention or reteaching on it, coming back at it for the whole group, then yeah, making a smart goal is hey, the first time we went through it, 45% of our students demonstrated mastery. Now we want to get to 70.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, I think that's a I think that's like a great place even for us like to start next year is to kind of look at this past year's data and then use that as our baseline and then kind of continue growing from there. And it doesn't have to be like standard to it doesn't have to be the same standard back to back, like it can be math. Okay, we got 50%, and then we could say, okay, we want to beat that like next time. It doesn't have to be the same topic.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_00I think as long as you're setting the goal, I think it just helps you stay accountable and like you want to try to achieve something. I mean, it could be motivating for some, and I know for others it might not be, but I think it's still a good idea to have some kind of baseline that you're trying to meet.
SPEAKER_03I think so too. And again, where where where I know I definitely get hung up is that I think, well, every goal should be 100%. Like, why am I ever shooting for below? But where I think smart goals, where we need to take a step into it as a staff, is and why data collection is becoming a bigger focus for guiding coalition and you guys are leading it so much. And why I wanted to talk to you about this here is some of the protocols, is um getting to that point where it's okay, just targeting goals. I kind of lost my train of thought there. So it is what it is. I don't know, it happens, it's late on a Friday. But I just I that sentence was coming out so much better. And then I paused to think and I don't know what happened. But I want to go back, and I'm not feeling done with this protocol conversation yet. Take me back to the collective agreement that came. I know this came from from Alyssa saying, Jackie, we're gonna fill this out at our next meeting. But what there had to have been collective agreements made, because you said, Oh, we filled this part out on our on our own time. What was that collective agreement? That we would talk about like the trends, uh the results that's that's gonna happen to the PLT, but you had to have had a conversation prior that said, come to this meeting with this filled out.
SPEAKER_00I think I just told them to come with it filled out. Yeah, there we go.
SPEAKER_03That's okay. I mean, she listened.
SPEAKER_01It went back to the conversation of how we will talk about data. I'm checking all these assessments, and we just had like we were going home and we talked about this conversation how we will put in the data, and then all of a sudden, Ms. Arroyo made this template. And it's things that it's it that's what's great about working with Mr. Royal is that I have all these ideas in my mind, but she puts it into place and then she shows it to me, and I'm I'm writing on that idea as well. So for her to just say, Hey, I made what we talked about, let's fill it in next Wednesday. I'm like, sure. Yeah. Great.
SPEAKER_00So I'm not just like, okay, Jackie, you have to do this, but like, okay, let me reflect a little bit. No, you're not.
SPEAKER_03That that's not, I mean, I don't know. I'm not in those conversations, but then you don't come across that way.
SPEAKER_00We'll have like conversations, like tiny. But some of it just comes from like like our like I have I'm on the guiding coalition, so like during ILT meetings, I'm like, okay, this is gonna come up. And so like I'm trying to get ahead of it or like trying to get us used to doing it. Um, and I see the value in it because I've read like the design in five book and like utilizing like kind of what I'm learning. Um, and I just see like the good, like what good practice comes from it. Um, so we would just say, like, oh, are you K like is next week a good time to talk about our data? And then when I did, then I did email it and say, like, hey, have it ready. But yeah, we do have the conversations ahead of time first.
SPEAKER_03So don't just say like, yeah, to do this, like but again, to take it all the way back, to take it all the way back. No, no, no, no. No one thinks that. We do think that. No, nobody thinks that. No, no. But to take it all the way back, Jackie, to to when you were describing your experience with PLC prior to Canyon Springs and saying it was a place you went, it was just the name of the meeting, and now you're seeing it more as the movement, the collective movement, that I don't think it's my impression is, and I've seen it from other teams, and you guys are just being very transparent about it here, that I don't think that it's bossing people around. I think it is one of you is just leading with the left, one of you's leading with the right to say who's gonna drive the next step. Like you said, I I see these ideas, you espouse these ideas out, and then Alyssa can hear me like, oh, okay, I can see what that should look like. It's the same thing that I feel as a principal sometimes is that we'll read something, we'll go to a training, we'll have this, we bring this all back, and I think, what if we could do this? Like annual budgets, or what if we can do this? And then to be frank, I don't actually then come back to my computer and build them. Then you all do the work, the the the lifting, and bring it back and say, What do you think of this? And then we can refine together. And I think that's the really exciting collective part of so much of this that you guys are honing in on the assessment side of it, where there's other forms of collective work taking place. Going back to that flow chart, you're all taking different steps into the yellow action buckets, and it's all just leading to this kind of collective momentum.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, I think it just kind of helps us stay moving on things. Like we're just really clear on what like next steps are, or like next steps, like us as a team, but also next steps like with the students. Like the protocol has steps for um like planning what we're gonna do. And so it helps keep us like one, you have a place to look back on, like, oh, if you forget, you have it recorded. Um, but it helps you stay accountable for what you're gonna work on with your students and like which ones they are. And um, we also have we entered in a spot where we can talk about the assessment itself, like the design of the assessment, what changes need to be made so that way it better we you know get better results. And like more accurate data on the actual learning of the students.
SPEAKER_03I think it also helps, and and and Jackie and Alyssa, please correct me if I'm wrong. But again, I look at so much of our big school data that like I think it also helps if you you have now you'll have your data entered from this year, and when you get next year's crop of third graders, right? And your your your group of students, then um you will and and let's say they could they provide after your tier one instruction on character analysis, I don't remember what percentages you have in front of you, and and that's not for us to talk about really, but like you'll get you'll receive back the common summative assessment, and you might have that moment of like only 70% demonstrate proficiency. But if you look back at what took place this year, and this year I'm making up a number, I don't know where it was, and you're like, oh, it's 42%. You're telling me we almost doubled, and what like it changes the feeling you have because if you don't have the data from the year prior to compare apples to apples, then each year is this swirl of emotions that what are they rooted in?
SPEAKER_00Yeah, I think it helps you stay. I I don't know, things are just really clear. Um, and you're not just kind of like guessing, like or trying to remember, well, oh, this group like last year did this better on this, but like lowers the evidence of the actual learning. So now we have like something to refer back to.
SPEAKER_01Not only that, but you can see the trend, and maybe there is a trend and not targeted um and not a target that we uh talked about, and then if it's around the same percentage, maybe there is something in that question that we can um do better going back to if there are any flaws in the assessment that we are not seeing. Like, why is this new group of kids having the same thing?
SPEAKER_03Exactly. Yeah, yes.
SPEAKER_00And yeah, and it's helped us. We after doing this, like we just had we did one on two step word problems, and we noticed like, oh wow, we need like way more time. So we did our annual budget like two days ago, and we allotted for way more time on that particular unit because we saw the results of the student learning.
SPEAKER_03And it takes me back to I I want to give to Jackie and I'm sorry, it takes me back to that conversation. The question I asked middle of this this conversation, where it was like, is it better to get hyper focused on one of those action steps, or are you really putting work into all of them based on it? And I think it's both. Your team is very focused on the assessment practices and the analysis, but then it's also then translating into revising you know instructional practices into stretching out different amounts of time of what do we want all students to learn? And and it really is collective work in all of them. I cut you off, Jackie. Do you remember what you were gonna say?
SPEAKER_01No, I well, hence the commitment that we did that one of them is adjust the annual budget for next year, see to allow more time.
SPEAKER_03Hold on a minute, hold on a minute. I know that we're getting a little long, but I I don't know how to stop. You have written down commitments on your analysis. So, what is written down is what's actually happening, and one of them is to revise your annual budget. Who are you guys? Like this is amazing.
SPEAKER_00I think it's made me a better teacher, honestly. Yeah. Because like some of the stuff is like, I'll write, like, okay, pull these kids or do this. And I'm like, okay, I wrote it down. Like, I don't know, that's just even like I wrote down, like, I have to do it.
SPEAKER_01And in addition to being a better educator, we even put um having a running record of keywords for these two-step problem solving that these kids can do next year. And it's just another strategy as a teacher. Like, what can you do better in terms of making students learn early on that there are keywords that you can use to help you with word problems?
SPEAKER_03Absolutely. Okay, so I want to take us to there's another little highlighted section as we kind of get near the end of this conversation, but I think it pertains to so much of what you talked about. It's right back to the Polymaker and Jacqueline Heller book, Literacy and a PLC at work. And it's really just the next page on page 82. They they have between page 81 and 82, they have kind of a model of the the team's protocol to which you guys emulate. But then there's a very short paragraph right there at the bottom, and it says this, the bottom of page 82. After getting the big picture of what students did overall and developing a plan of action to respond by name and by need, teams collectively build a planned response to ensure all students reach proficiency in essential reading or math outcomes. Teams share ideas, resources, and effective strategies to customize responses for individual students. I don't know. I mean, that's that's what this whole conversation is, right?
SPEAKER_00Mm-hmm. Commitments.
SPEAKER_03It's just the commitments.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, and I was gonna say also, because I know a lot of our we've we're kind of shifting some focus on like extending learning. Like we have a place to talk about students who need extended learning too, and like what to do with them. Um and we're not like leaving them behind because it they're also uh like accounted for and we think about what to do with them so or like what to do for those students to help with their, you know, yeah, sometimes whenever because we're such an intervention-focused school, like we don't want to leave them out. So we do have a place where we talk about uh or like maybe Miss Godfrey, since she's had like more work with um upper grade, then she gives us a lot of ideas of what we can do, or we just kind of share and we'll record it down on our our sheets so that we can go back and look at it as a reference.
SPEAKER_03It's just the collective work. And what's exciting is if you really when you listen back to this conversation, and those of you that are listening, you started by saying, Well, we're really gonna talk about PLC question two, right? How will we know all students learn it? But then as we've gone through and done everything, you then went all the way back to talking about building an assessment, which is so much about what do we want all students to know and figuring out what learning targets we're really gonna assess and what that looks like, and what is what is mastery look like? And then you talked about what you're gonna mean. You've hit through the course of your assessment work all four PLC questions.
SPEAKER_01It's actually hard not uh to separate each one because it's a whole process.
SPEAKER_03Yes, it's the movement is what we can call back. It is the movement. Okay, so what are your next step next steps, third grade PLT? Where's your next hyper focus that's gonna now infiltrate the rest of your teaching?
SPEAKER_01I think she just uh Miss Arroyo just mentioned it. I think that extending the learning or having enrich and deepen learning off these kids. And I know you said, like, oh, we're not leaving them out. I think it's not about leaving out, it's more about polishing one thing first before we can even encounter something new in our thing. But at the same time, we're trying things on the side.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, the direction of the student who demonstrate proficiency in the test isn't okay, go ahead and sit quietly for two weeks and we interview. Like there is work being offered to them, and so you know, nothing.
SPEAKER_01But it's just like more intentional, yes, like in like a little intentional yeah, intentionality would be our goal.
SPEAKER_03Absolutely, absolutely. Well, fantastic. Thank you so much for being here. It might go on record as our longest episode yet, but it's two of you, so I get it. No, but it's fantastic. I'm very, very impressed by the work, and I thank you so much for being here.
SPEAKER_00Thank you.
SPEAKER_03Absolutely. Now turn to your PLTs for the next steps in your PLC at work journey, and we'll see you out there. You can find more information about this week's episode in the podcast description. The intro and outro music provided courtesy of the Signors of Marseille, and podcast cover art provided care of Joel B.