Pivot Happens - Episode 1: Meet the Unprofessional Armchair Psychologists

We are Anne Kingston and Von denMeer and welcome to our podcast! It's Episode One and a big ol' PIVOT for the two of us. Work brought us together, writing bonded us for life, but we also found that we shared a lot of similar beliefs about life and moving toward where you really want to be. We started talking about pivots and the podcast idea came from that. We wanted to share our experiences on making pivotal choices in our lives and those other times the Universe made the choices for us and how we survived (and thrived). We focus on resilience and we invite people with interesting and inspiring pivot stories to come on and share with us and our audience (we will have one someday, right, Buzzsprout? That's part of the deal. . . ). Want to share you're story? Reach out!

We call ourselves the Unprofessional Armchair Psychologists, but this is pure silliness and if you need REAL mental heal help, please reach out. If you need to connect, you can reach NAMI (National Alliance on Mental Illness) at Call: 1-800-950-6264, Text “NAMI” to 62640, or if you're in a crisis, Call or Text 988. Don't wait! Your pivot may be just around the corner and we want you here and healthy for it.

We call ourselves the Unprofessional Armchair Psychologists, but this is pure silliness and if you need REAL mental heal help, please reach out. If you need to connect, you can reach NAMI (National Alliance on Mental Illness) at Call: 1-800-950-6264, Text “NAMI” to 62640, or if you're in a crisis, Call or Text 988. Don't wait! Your pivot may be just around the corner and we want you here and healthy for it.

Transcript

Speaker 0:00

Welcome to Pivot Happens, the plucky little podcast that could, with Anne Kingston and Von Den.

Von denMeer 0:09

Welcome to Pivot Happens, the plucky little podcast that could. I am one of your hosts, Anne Vandenmeer. And I am Ann Kingston. We are the two Ans. And I will most likely be going by Vandenmeir because that helps us know who we're talking about. And I kind of like going by Vandenmeir. Except people then think my name is Von Denmir, and I'm not a Vaughn. Anyway, um, we started this podcast, and it is about pivots, different kinds of pivots. But when we started playing around with this, we really realized a lot of what this is about for us is resilience. And so we talk about resilience a lot as we're going through all of this pivoting talk. And uh this came about through just a lot of discussions. Um we like to call ourselves the unprofessional armchair psychologist. Because when we spend our time slicing and dicing others, analyzing their behavior and our own. No judgment, no. No judgment. We're right in there too. Um, we started calling ourselves that just as kind of a joke because it was like that was a way to distinguish that we were gonna start throwing out some theories. And so every now and then.

Anne Kingston 1:36

At least to know that I don't know. Anyway, go ahead.

Von denMeer 1:38

No, it's so if at any point in time we we get to that place, you'll know because the glasses and the Siggies. I the Siggy started from a very silly thing. Um I had a piece of a straw, and during a meeting, I was basically channeling my mom from the 70s and talking about my straw and tape. You can't, you can't. So that's where the ciggies came from. We don't endo smoking in any way. They are, as I often say, the finest gum cigarettes that Macedonia produces.

Anne Kingston 2:11

Which I had a little bit of out of that one.

Von denMeer 2:14

Oh, I did too. There there's something in there. I'm not sure if these are any better for you than regular cigarettes. That's my fear. Whatever that powder is that looks like fake smoke. I don't know. I don't know. But anyway, um, so it's just kind of a silly thing we do, but it sort of is like I feel like it's like when we're getting to the real the meat of a an issue or whatever, when we're we're serious and we're really tearing it apart or really thinking it through. So um we kind of um work brought us together and writing was the um the bow that got tied around the friendship, I think. Yeah, for sure.

Anne Kingston 3:00

Yeah. Yes, yes, yes. I feel like though, if words could express how I think strong of a bond, I think we've become it it, you know what I mean? Like it doesn't describe nearly, but anyway.

Von denMeer 3:11

No, no, you feel more like a sister. I you really do. I do. I said that I said that to Laura. Laura will be a guest on our podcast, which is Laura's another friend of ours. I said, uh she's like my sister. She really is. Yeah, really is. Oh, yeah, absolutely. Um but what was really cool is Anne was um she started working on her. We're we both consider ourselves writers, and we're both really trying to make that our our that's our pivot. That's probably our biggest pivot right now is to pivot our lives into being writers. Yes. As our careers. Um, and so you were writing a a romance novel, a Western historical romance novel. You want to talk a little bit about that?

Anne Kingston 3:56

Sure. This is this is the book I started. I think you can see it. I don't think it's gonna fade out here. Um, I think maybe about 20 years ago, because um and I don't know if I ever told you this, Ann. Maybe I did. Um okay, so I started the book about 20 years ago because I was newly married, no kids, no kids at the time, okay? I can't believe I don't think I told you this. Newly married, no kids, and a little lost. Emotionally, everything like felt like I had let go of who I was, what I wanted to be, you know what I mean? Like that place where you're just lost. And I don't know what happened because I'd always written for the most part, always had a love of writing, always, you know, enjoyed that process, started a few books at any point in my life. Um but I had just decided to start writing one, uh, a just a romance novel, just because it just brought me back to connecting who I who with who I was. So this book started and stopped and started and stopped and started and stopped over the last 20 years. And then I would say last year is when I got the fire lit under me to really make something of it. Because whenever anybody asked, yeah, whenever anybody asks me, what do you what do you do? I'm like, well, I do this, but when I grow up, I want to be a romance novelist, you know, and that's what I would always tell people. Do you remember the thing that lit the fire last year? The fire was the woman that I met just randomly, yeah, at um at my daughter's gymnastics class. And I live in a very small town, and I just happen to be sitting next to someone the very first class, and we just hit hit it off talking, and she and she, you know, by the end of it, I'm like, what do you do for a living? And she's like, Oh, I'm a romance novelist. And I'm like, No, you're not.

Von denMeer 5:52

Yeah.

Anne Kingston 5:52

The universe would not put you sitting right next to me in this very moment. And and and of course it did. And she became a mentor of how to be a self-published indie author. And I set goals for myself last year. I I picked the book up, um, and here I am. It's published. And I trailed very well on Amazon. Amazon, Kindle Unlimited.

Von denMeer 6:16

Yep. Yes, we we um we intend for this to be a a podcast free to all. There'll be no paywalls, there'll be nothing, you know, no extra content. You'll get all the content here, but we will shamelessly plug our own stuff. So you have to put up with our shameless plugs, but everything will be free. No, well, I mean, yeah, that that's such a that's like in my mind, kind of like one of the universal pivots where it's like the universe put something in your path to just shift you and be like, hey, remember you can't ignore this one. Yeah, remember her? Remember that person who started writing this book and remember why she did it and remember how it felt? It's like, I'd like to poke you and wake you back up again, please.

Anne Kingston 7:06

Really, yeah. I mean, like sometimes there are shifts that pivot that there are shifts and pivots that come from the universe. This is my opinion now, my opinion. Um, I know we share it, but just have to caveat that with the whole world here.

Von denMeer 7:19

Um because everybody's gonna listen.

Anne Kingston 7:23

Um yeah, I mean, sometimes the pivot can be difficult and it can be hard and it can be a lesson that you don't want to learn, but boy, the universe is saying, No, no, no, no, it's time. This was a beautiful moment that I just felt like okay, so this is what I'm supposed to do then. This wouldn't be this obvious, this wouldn't be so in my face, this wouldn't be so like you know what I mean? It's like the flashing open sign.

Von denMeer 7:49

Yeah, yeah, the universe is open. Here's the store of Ann Kingston. What is she going to do? Uh that's so funny because I I was talking to my therapist and I said, you know, now I look back at so many things and I'm like, thank you so much for not giving me what I thought I wanted. And it was, and she was like, Wow, that's really even like, well, I don't think I, you know, coined at or anything, but it's true. It's so true. And it's like that, and I know we're gonna talk a lot about that because we do. We we really do. That's that's certainly the place that we share that we come from in this sort of belief of we are all being led. And you can call whatever you whatever you want to call the leader, you call the leader. Like Casey Musgrav's call it the architect. You know, if you want to call it the architect, Kelly, if you want to call it universe God, Kabbalah Monster. I don't, you know, it we're all we're kind of trying to talk about it in a very generic sort of way. Yeah.

Anne Kingston 8:45

But but also And however it applies to each person is however it applies.

Von denMeer 8:50

Exactly, and and however much you want to codify it. That's your business. On here, we tend to stick to kind of like a belief in a universal force that is beyond us, that is working for us in some way, is working us towards something, is leading us to our purpose, whatever that is. Um, so yeah, so it took me a while to get to a place of understanding that because I spent a lot of my life in a place of I am cursed. I don't ever get what I want, nothing ever works out for me. I have bad luck. I was specifically told I had bad luck, you know what I and it's like, oh, oh, fuck that. Fuck, fuck, fuck. Wow, I didn't know that. Yeah. And um, so it it it was I I guess I had to go through it. You have to go through it, I guess, sometimes to really understand some things. And that's what happened to me is I went through this walk of realization of oh my god, thank God that didn't happen. If that had happened, this would never have happened. Um, and one thing I could definitely uh add into this whole message is when you started working on your book, I too had written on and off, on and off throughout all the years. Um I'd written some novels, I'd finished some, but never really seriously ever thought about publishing. I had work published, I wrote for some magazines, uh, regional kind of magazines, nothing, you know, it wasn't Utney Reader. It was, but they were, you know, I mean, they were regional magazines. And I have had some poetry published. Um, so you know, I've I've done that kind of thing, but I I never really took my novels seriously enough. Um so I never took my novels really that seriously. And um when I first uh probably about four years ago, I started my book that I've recently finished. And I wrote that book. That started as a way to deal with um some really difficult things I went through in life, uh, some losses that were unfortunately the kind of losses where the person can't tell me how or why they got to the point of jumping ship here. And so it was like if you've been through something like that, you will understand. It's the unanswered questions. It's the what could I have said? What could I have done, even though I know very much there was nothing you could have said or done. You cannot help it. As a human, you will ask yourself these questions. What was there something I could have said or done? Even though there was so I started this book as kind of like just sort of, you know, like I always started all my books. Um and when you start talking about when you were writing and everything, I started thinking, you know, I should get my book out. And you were so encouraging, of course. You were just like, yeah, yeah, do it, do it, do it. And I think that again, if this book is gonna ever be anything, it is because our paths crossed. Because otherwise, I think that would have just like I always jokingly say, it would have died on a hard drive of a Mac somewhere, you know, that I never recovered. And it's like I know what you mean, yeah. Yeah, there's lots of lost drives where this one was located. That's amazing. Wow. Um I probably do have some of them I don't that that have gone from Mac to Mac to Mac. You know, every time you you you start up a new one, everything gets transferred over. It's like that probably in there somewhere, but anyway. Um your very generous encouragement, your your um, not devotion, but your um how you were sticking to your process, how you were writing, how you were oh yeah getting it together and uh why can't I think of the word? Um not devotion, but your your tenacity. Your commitment your commitment to writing your book really inspired me because you were like, and and then it got to be fun. It was like all of a sudden it's like, yeah, and this, oh yeah. And then and then something very magical happened with this book. I do feel like this book had to be written now. I really do. I do feel like what it is and where it is now, um, it needed to be written. It it it deals with you know really difficult subjects for sure, but to me, it's like unless we talk about difficult subjects and start having conversations around healing, we're not going to get better as a human race. I mean, it's like we there's some stuff we need to talk about, I firmly believe. And so that's kind of what I ended up trying to do in this book. And um now I am trying, I have actually sent it to one agent. I'm I'm hoping, you know, like we've talked about, I need to get some more out there going just to keep that energy going of the book and and keeping it kind of alive. But I've actually started a new book, as have you.

Anne Kingston 14:04

Yes. Oh, it's it's I yeah, I mean, just the process is just so much fun. I can't even I mean, I know I say this and I'm trying not to say it in a way that the universe is gonna take it literally because I don't want it to be taken literally, but I cancel clear. Yeah, exactly. Like if I could just be writing all day as my source of income, but but not the source of like more than what I make.

Von denMeer 14:28

More than you know, just step up, right? Yeah, yeah, right, exactly. And I think that you know, I I do that, I have sometimes those fears too, because it's like I don't want to lose my job, I need my job right now for sure. I'm appreciative of my job. Grateful, it's uh so grateful, all the gratitude for my work, because without my work, none of this would have been from the computer I write it on to where I live to what I'm doing now. I'm forever and ever grateful. I wouldn't have met you. I mean, it's like there's so much about my job I'm grateful for. And but I think when you have a writer's soul, and I think when people who write and really understand it, and I don't know, I think my soul took a little coaxing to come out for a lot of reasons. I know there's lots of reasons why it was like that. I used to be so horribly meanly critical of my writing, and it was very difficult for me. Um, and I would just I would write something, and I would be like, I'd go back and be like, oh my God, that's terrible. And I it's interesting with my new book, I'm having a little of that because I'm trying to, you know, get it off the ground, and it's so rough and it's so nebulous, and it's this very crazy nebulous idea. So, of course, you know, but and I I've I told you about this before. I did the national novel writing month, nano rhymo. And that if anybody has not heard of that, or if you have, you know. Um, if you know, you know, it is I can't remember what the name I feel really bad. I think it's just called nano rhimo. They put out they put this on every November, and you write a novel, and you write a 40,000-word novel, and they tell you how many words you have to write per day to get that done if you're going to meet your goal. And there's lots of encouragement, it's really fun. That process broke me of a lot of that because you don't have time to go back and talk shit about your writing. Yeah, like analyze. Sit down and write, and that really helped me break through that and realize just write, just sit down and just write. You can pick through it later, you can decide what's good or bad later. Immediate criticism of what you've just written kills the process. So yeah, yeah.

Anne Kingston 16:43

I was so impressed when you did that because I mean I remember, I mean, wasn't that when you took a week off of work? Didn't you? You took, I remember very clearly, it might not have been in November, but I remember thinking, oh my God, I'm so impressed. You took a whole week off of work, and I remember you just wrote the whole week. Oh, yeah, I did. I did a staycation. You didn't go anywhere.

Von denMeer 17:07

Yeah, well, I don't have a family either. It makes it really easy to do shit like that.

Anne Kingston 17:12

Yeah.

Von denMeer 17:13

I'm just me. So when I make decisions like a staycation writ a thon, I just gotta clear with the cats and make sure they have food. No, yeah, no. I think I did it's been a while since I did nano Rimo. Um, and that was a whole month. And I um, but I very, you know, I I recommend that to anybody, especially if you have a a problem with an inner critic that won't shut up. I really recommend that. Or just, you know, you don't have to wait for November. You can do it yourself. You can figure out it's like I can't remember 3,000 something words a day. So it's like just and you make you do it. I'm right now I've gotten into a thing. I my whole thing with like scheduling my wellness, um, which I started doing, that's something I started doing this year. I have this wonderful book. Um, and I I kind of I bought because of course I'm always attracted to journals and planners and everything like that, and I have one on my phone and I've got one in my work computer. So it's like I really didn't need it. So I made it like my my wellness schedule, and I schedule in, and I do really believe there is something to that, to scheduling the things you want to do, like oh yeah, and seeing it and knowing that, okay, and and I never, you know, if I don't do it, I don't check it off, I don't beat myself up, I might move it to another date. But it it does really give me, and I enjoy doing it too. But that that particular um, I'll plug it at some point because it's so fun. I always call it like a Denny's kids placement because it you get some color in stuff and everything, and you put all it's it's um it it you write in all the dates, so it's a blank one you could use in any year and start whenever you want. Um, but anyway, um I I had in there like I have my meditation every morning, I always put that in there and my yoga because I started setting some goals, it was just over 90 days ago, and I keep track of my goals in there and how I'm progressing. I just had my 90-day review with myself and how I'm doing my goals, and did I want to adjust any goals? And I did that. But um I added all of a sudden I did, I was doing one of my meditations or courses or something, and it was like, oh my God, I need to schedule in a writing block just like my meditation, just like my yoga. So every morning now I'm trying to write at least 15 minutes before work.

Anne Kingston 19:25

Oh my god, I love it. Yeah, plus it's also so grounding. I don't know about you, but when I write, it's so grounding, it it it centers me, it puts me in a good mental space. Yeah, I'm I know. Plus, also when you say you schedule yourself, I know, I know you I know there's a little bit of a oh my god, I have to schedule myself. But I will say this, and I've always believed this, and I don't know if anybody else or any other writer out there has this opinion, but like for me, writing is something that I can do, you know, any time of day. It's not that I can't take it up, it's just that there is a there is a magic period of in of the day that I just am I always say this at work, but I'm brilliant from 5 a.m. to 8 a.m. Yeah. And that's my spot. That's my that's my that's where the my brain is just it wants to it wants to do this.

Von denMeer 20:17

That's so yeah, we're both early risers. And and that is definitely that's my well, it's my me time for sure.

Anne Kingston 20:25

Now that I mean the repetition and the the you know the the the the daily just I just think it's like working out that it's just working out your brain, it's just working out your writing, it's just working it out, and it's just you're getting more fit. Yes. You're getting more fit as a writer.

Von denMeer 20:42

I think when I did the query letter, it was like it sort of was like I stopped writing, you know. When I finished the book, I kind of stopped writing, and I didn't know if I was gonna do another book after this, and then we started talking about my idea, and it was like very fun. And so, um, but I also feel like again, it's about attracting the like the reason I want to send out more query letters and all this is attracting energy to the writing. If you don't feed things with your energy, I believe they just kind of wither. And so it's that paying attention to your writing, the thing you want to be focused on, focusing on it, giving it, nurturing it, whatever. And so that's why I put the 15 minutes of writing in a day. Because it's like that takes me back to writing, to being a writer, to wanting to be a writer.

Anne Kingston 21:31

And so kind of in response to what you had just said, there is something to be said about moving forward, moving forward with the query letters, moving forward with the next book, moving forward, because it doesn't mean that you're in a in a race, you're in a marathon. And and as long as you're moving forward, you're moving forward. One step is one step. One you know what I mean, even if it's not running and you're just walking, you're still moving forward. And I think that there's an energy to that process. And then I again, because I believe in this, there's an there's a when you create the energy of moving forward, it creates the movement of all of these things that you're asking, manifesting, trying to bring into your life to you're opening the door in in I think in some ways for that. So again, my opinion.

Von denMeer 22:22

No, I I totally agree. That's just what I mean. It's like you have to draw the energy in and put it where you want it. You know what I mean? So we can kind of get back to pivot happens. And and that's kind of just our backstories, and you can obviously see we pivot quickly whenever needed. But we started kind of talking about how we sort of we started talking about how we see a couple kind of different pivots in life. There's the the pivot that the universe may thrust upon you. The one and they may they can often be the ones that aren't maybe as much fun. Um whether they're um you know where you're forced to make a change. So uh that kind of pivot is it's way harder to stay in that and be like, okay, this is happening for a reason. This is happening for a reason. Um I think for me, um I always it and and we talk some a lot in this and when we're talking to people about resilience, as I said, because a lot of being able to pivot is being resilient, because sometimes it's really hard. And I I always for a very long time felt like I was not resilient. And I would think about things and I'd be like, oh my God, if that happened, I would just collapse into a heap on the floor and not be able to move forward. And then I had an experience that really kind of taught me during COVID, my mom had a heart attack and had to have quadruple bypass. And this was summer of 2020. So it was pre-vaccinations, pre-everything. And if you'd asked me how would I handle this? Because my mom's, I mean, she was in her later 70s at that point in time, because she was in her later 70s and had some health issues and stuff, we were being very, very careful. And I had some too. So I mean it was like very careful. I was staying with her, you know, and all of that. And it was like, oh yeah. Um we were, you know, we were the ones with the bleach spray with our groceries, wiping everything down before we brought it in from the delivery service. We weren't even going to the grocery store. We're gonna deliver down bleaching it. So we were very serious. So if you said to me, guess what? You're gonna go to ER, I would have been like, oh, never, never, never, never. Well, I had to go to ER, people on either side of us with COVID. And those weren't solid rooms. This is an ER, you know, and it was like, here we are masked in there, here we are having to stay in the hospital, here she is, having to have the surgery. Uh I always caveat this. We were very lucky in that cases had dropped in the summer, as they did. Um and we were able to at least be at the hospital during the surgery, and and and while she was there, we could go, my sister and I only. Um, but again, if you'd asked me, I would have been like, oh God, no, I couldn't handle that. I would lose it. And so I sort of came up with this little mantra after that, and it was you'll be stronger than you know when you get there. And for me, that's sort of how I sum up resilience now. You'll be stronger than you know when you get there. I love that. And yeah, and so sometimes when I'm kind of in this uh panicky flight freeze kind of moment, uh oh, flight freeze, we're talking about um trauma responses here. Uh when I'm in that flight-freeze moment, as you're unprofessional armchair psychologist, I can tell myself now you'll be stronger than you know when you get there. And it's like, okay, it doesn't sound fun, but I can handle it, I can get through it. So yeah, and I mean, and I know we talk about this in other times, but I'm not saying it's easy. I'm not saying anything about that was easy or that I was like, oh, that was a cakewalk. It was awful, it was really kind of facing death pretty close in a lot of different ways. And so, but I mean, if I look at what I learned from that, if I look at what I took from that, and I look at the changes that came after that and things, and and how it made me a little less um terrorized with fear and things like that. Yeah, it's like, well, I think I had to go through that.

Anne Kingston 26:55

I think I did. And and I don't know if you have a feeling of being proud of yourself, but I know when I've been through, you know, my big pivot was getting laid off right after I had a baby.

Von denMeer 27:07

Yeah.

Anne Kingston 27:08

And um, and I think that it was one of the hardest things I've ever had to do was to pull myself back up on my feet and put myself out there even after having a baby. And let's not even get into the postpartum stuff that you're emotionally going through. But anyway, um I'm proud of myself. Yeah. That I didn't let it get me. It didn't make me I I I'm stronger. I'm I'm I'm a better person because of that experience.

Von denMeer 27:40

Well, and you know you survived it. You used your skills to get through and survive, and that's how that one worked out. So that's great, you know. And and it's like again, we'd probably all, you know, if we could have an undo, we'd undo and and not go through that again because they're awful things. It's awful when you're in it for sure. And I don't that's that's one of the things I feel like, you know, I I don't ever want to seem in in this doing this podcast or whatever, and when we talk about these things happening and talk about unexpected pivots and things, and nowhere are we saying, oh, it's easy, or we're saying, oh, here, just cheer up and get through it. This is not toxic positivity.

Anne Kingston 28:17

This is right, or even compare what we've been through to somebody else's major trauma either, because exactly. Exactly.

Von denMeer 28:25

I mean, and that's I always say your shits your shit because and that I think that's really, you know, that's and that's the thing with trauma. That that is really the thing with trauma, is um it it you can't compare traumatic experiences. It isn't about the experience, it's about how you and the people around you dealt with it and what went down and where you didn't process it fully as you should have. So it's not like like if somebody else had an experience and they were like, Well, yeah, when I was 10, my my dad didn't pick me up, and then he when he got there, he seemed kind of mad. And I always thought, so now I freak out if anybody's late, or if I'm late, I'm always so I'm always like two hours, and it's like you could be like, Well, come on, you know, your dad picked it, and it's like, no, no, I totally understand that. It's like so, so there's no judgment here. There's no judgment of anyone's trauma, anyone's experience. We're not saying in any way we've had the worst traumatic experiences of anyone, we've just had the traumatic experiences that humans go through. And we feel like now we've kind of come to places where with enough years behind us, looking in the rear view, it's like, well, I'd like to talk to more people about this. I'd like to know, you know, how did you get through? Because uh, as uh uh uh most people probably get tired of me talking about my whole mindful self-compassion thing. A big part of that is common humanity and knowing you're not alone. And yeah, because the worst shame and trauma and fear and all that just so thrive in the darkness, and it's like no apparent 100%, you're not alone.

Anne Kingston 30:08

I remember very clearly, my sister doesn't know this. I called her the minute I found out I was laid off, and she just started crying. Yeah, and I I don't know for me, that was the most supportive and meaningful thing that could have happened in that moment. I don't know why. Yeah, exactly. She just started crying immediately, and um, and then it was like, but but you're gonna get through it. So it's you know, you just dance back on and but yes, no, having having somebody else understand is really, really uh yeah.

Von denMeer 30:46

And we do, we do, we understand your big and your small traumas. We've had the gamut, and it's not a contest. And if it is, as I often say, it's a contest, nobody wins. So we we don't play like that. It's like your trauma's your trauma, you should shit. No, no, and if you're that kind of person who needs to prove you have the biggest worst trauma, well, you got some trauma work to do. So, no, and and and also, too, I will say I fully acknowledge um talking to the millennials and zoomers here. I fully acknowledge that I've had plenty of privilege that has kept my traumas from going to the extent that many other people have. I mean, I I understand that, I understand the advantages and things that I've had, but I will also very fully tell you, I've been through some things in my life that um no one should have to go through. And so again, once again, for the people in the back, your shit is your shit. And I think that's kind of a ground rule here that we don't rank anybody's trauma. We don't, we also don't um minimize anyone's trauma. No, yeah, and our experiences or pivot experiences. We're just here to share and talk and again shed that light of empathy, shed that light of of common humanity and understanding. The other kind of pivots, they're a little more fun. Um the the pivot by choice, the pivots by choice. I like that. Um, where you kind of make a decision that, like, okay, everything is is okay. It's this isn't like you know, one of those situations where uh there's no choice but to pivot um or you know, collapse, but you won't because you'll be stronger than you know when you get there, I promise. Um but um making those kind of decisions, and I kind of feel like your meeting Katie pushed you to a very positive pivot.

Anne Kingston 32:58

Yes, very positive. Plus also I think there was a moment in all of this where, you know, I'm definitely I'm I'm in my 50s, and um I'm not saying I went through a like a midlife or anything like that, but it's it's kind of like well, when are you gonna do it? When are you gonna do it now or never? So exactly.

Von denMeer 33:18

It's like that clock ticks. And I think yeah, you get to a certain age and it starts clicking, ticking a little longer.

Anne Kingston 33:25

Exhibit, and you're like, okay, what do I have to do to get there? Yeah. Yeah. And I gave myself a year. I gave myself a year to to be self-published. I remember very I met her in January and I published in December. Yeah, that's how that all worked. I met I met her in January and I published December 30th. Oh, and how many pages have been read on Kindle? Oh, uh yeah, uh by eight over 18,000 pages at this point. Wow. Right. So and and I and I know for some people, maybe that's not the numbers that they get. Maybe it's maybe their numbers are bigger, maybe the numbers are smaller, but I I am incredibly proud of that number because right now, when we talked about the energy and how it shifts, I'm telling you, writing the new book and ever so often shoving out, or I shouldn't say shoving out, but putting out a couple of TikToks to to promote this one. Um I'm getting more readers now than I did in the beginning, which is wild to me because I know the beginning writers were my friends. The beginning writers were the friends of friends. Um now it's truly organic readers. Yeah. So I'm it's it's wild. So it's fun to see the number grow. Yes. Yeah, yeah. Yes, definitely. Um that's I I really believe that's the energy, energy and motion.

Von denMeer 34:45

Yes. Again, like we're talking about, you gotta care and feed for your your dreams and your pivots and your energy and all of that. It just that again, too. That's why I put it on my my daily thing. It's like, yeah, get back into the writing. Um, because uh yeah, again, I know I we kind of were talking about this earlier. Um for me, I had sort of a pivot experience. I had a different experience than I ever did with any other book with this one. I fell in love with it. I fell in love with the story, I fell in love with my characters, and it was just so different. And and that in the beginning, I mean, there was the first part I wrote, and I can't remember how much I had, but I'm gonna say it couldn't have been 10,000 words yet, maybe. I don't even think it was that. So it was a kernel of an idea. It was just like this one little part of the book, and it was like, yeah, it's interesting, it could be something or whatever. But once I got in and started getting catching that vibe from you, that energy from you of get in there and write, get in there and write, you know, and create. Yeah. And it was like all of a sudden, there was just a shift, and it was like the story came to me. I will say that it was like it was, I always say this, it was like I was watching a movie and reporting what I saw happen. I could just see the whole thing. And now it's like it's that I know these characters. They're they're they're like, I know these people, and they are completely products of my imagination. It's like, but um so for me, that was a pivot that kind of surprised me. That was a um a little bonus pivot in the middle of all of this, like I do want to be a writer. You know what I mean? That's like, and and I because of the stuff I've been through, um, and having a period of time where I was not able to work and going through a lot of really difficult times and trying to get my life back and trying to get my life back on track. When I got the work that I have now, it was very um, I had a huge gratitude, like I was talking about, because it made so much possible and everything. But it also sort of slid into this like, well, this is it, you know what I mean? This is what you're gonna do. You're gonna work and do that stuff. And then it was like, well, it's a fine job, and I it's not that I mind what I do for the most part, you know. I I I get to work with words a lot at work, and I always enjoy whenever I'm around words, you know what I mean?

Anne Kingston 37:25

But we are editors at work, which is the benefit of the writing too.

Von denMeer 37:30

Yeah. So that, you know, that that part, but it was like, and and here's the interesting way that it kind of became clear to me that it wasn't satisfying my soul. I was buying lots of things that I could buy. Oh part of that was when I went through that time of not being able to work. I mean, I like what they took out in taxes in my salary this year was what I used to live on for a year. So I mean, there was not a lot of indulging myself. And I was so trying to turn my life around that any money I did have went toward trying to turn my life around. So it was like, and and so in the beginning, it was like it was very fun. I will not deny it was really nice to have, you know, some nice things again and and to not have to think, you know, to death, can I afford this? Can I, you know, it's like I can afford that, you know, and and it was fun and everything. And yeah, my my coat and shoe issue. I know I have a problem. I have too many of both, maybe handbags, you know. But after a while, it was like, okay, I got purse. Okay, that's a nice purse. And it's like, oh, there's another pretty shiny purse, you know, and it's like, eh, this really isn't it. This really isn't touching my soul. It's fun and everything, but it's like it's it's kind of empty. And nothing I have ever done or bought felt like writing that book. It really didn't. That was like, and I guess for me, there's another pivot here where it's like long time ago, Ann wanted to be Vandenmure wanted to be a writer. Long, long time ago, like first grade. I kind of started wanting, yeah, knowing already I had some promise in writing. And then in high school, my English teacher was like, You're really gifted at this, you know, whatever. And then when I was in college doing all the different things I did, um, I won awards that normally were given to English majors for my writing again. But I went to law school and hated that and left in my last semester, and then went on this crazy friggin career path of uh into I had, you know, I say I had no appreciable job skills because I'd spent so much time in school that wasn't, and and you can't go out and kind of practice law. You either are a lawyer or you're not. So I was like, and I went into marketing and got to do some writing and some creative stuff because I also very much enjoy painting, but it was like where did I let go of that wanting to be a writer? Where did because I, you know, like I joined writing groups and would do stuff, but it was like, what was it about writing that I couldn't fully embrace? And I know a lot of it was like parental discouragement of doing that, not seeing that as like, you know, what are you gonna do with that? How are you gonna be a writer? How you gonna, you know, and what do you how you know, I and so it wasn't like anybody was saying, oh my god, and you need to write, you need to write, get get to writing girl, you know. No, it was nothing like that. It was very much like it's a nice hobby, you know, that kind of thing or whatever. But and even maybe it feels, and it's probably due to all of this, kind of like who who do you think you are? You know what I mean to say that, you know what I mean? It's like and this experience really kind of it was like who do I think I am? I think I'm Bundenmere, the writer. And and I wanna that's that's my thing, you know what I mean? And and I don't know, it's weird. It's really weird. I'm like having a real moment here. This is some real shit. It is. I'm I'm this is completely unplanned, unscripted, on everything. It's like where did I lose the dream? And and why is it hard to say it's my dream? Why is it hard to to own that?

Anne Kingston 41:37

I don't know. I I think sometimes when I think about how I have always looked at myself and my writing is it is such a raw, um very vulnerable space to to be first one allow yourself, I think, at least for me, to allow myself to be in that creative moment and and actually create something that I'm proud of, but then it's really raw and very humble and very vulnerable to share it with just anybody. You know what I mean? It's it's you know, it's all of those things. Plus, I think that I don't know, I mean, I think I know we are speaking the same language, but it's just when I write I'm connected to the the deepest part of my soul, my being, why I'm here. Um it it it it it's real, it's me. It's um I put on a different face, I put on a different, you know, everything when I go to work. Um when I write, it is it is it embodies everything about me. And I think that's probably I don't know that could be part of it, that there's just such an enormous amount of vulnerability in this process. So um but at the same time letting go and just freeing yourself from the judgment is such a liberating and amazing experience and feeling. Yeah, it doesn't mean that you don't care what anybody thinks. I mean you still do, it's just but it's not about that. Yeah, yeah, I'm serious. Exactly. Exactly.

Von denMeer 43:25

I'm always right. Right. If my book, you know, whatever happens with it, that we were talking before about imposter syndrome on another episode, and I think some of it's that. It's like Definitely Because I mean it it is one of those things, like if you say to people, I needlepoint in my story time, they'll be like, Well, that's a really nice hobby, or whatever. They're like, Oh, you're really good at needle point, or whatever. I crochet, okay, it's a nice Afghan, you know what I mean? But when you say to people, I'm a writer, it's like What does that even mean? Who do you think? You know, and again, who do you think you are? I I've heard that phrase a lot in my own.

Anne Kingston 44:06

Well, and I'll be honest with you, for me, it's like, oh, you write? What do you write? Oh, I just write stuff. And then it's like, you know, to be vulnerable enough to say, well, I I really personally I love the smudge. I love the trashy robots. I love that experience. But it's really interesting when you get people going, well, what do you write? And then you're like, I'm not changing the world with what I'm writing. I'm just entertaining people. And and and I used to have a judgment about myself about um the fact that I was writing something like that. And now I'm just like, F no. Like, yeah, the the the the the romance industry is one of the biggest, most possible there is. Yes. I'm like, nope, I I write smut.

Von denMeer 44:51

You write very classy smut.

Anne Kingston 44:55

Well, yeah, I don't know, whatever. Yeah. I mean, I have read some books that are really they they are very uh shocking.

Von denMeer 45:05

Yes, but hey, the market bears it out. People want to read that. So they do.

Anne Kingston 45:10

Oh my god, yes, they do. Oh, they do, believe me. That is the that is hot right now as far as what's being sold. But anyway, we digress.

Von denMeer 45:19

We digress. But no, I think that that's um we we kind of I think wandered into a nice little corner here. It's it's like it even though I mean here we are talking about you know pivots and listening to the universe and everything, it doesn't mean that doubt doesn't creep in. It doesn't mean that what am I doing? It's like, how do you write out the doubt? How do you how do you make friends with the doubt and be like, well, you know what, I'm gonna try anyway, because the opposite means it will never work. If I don't try, then I 100% I get 100% confirmation I will never be a published writer. You know what I mean? It's like good, I can have my answer. I don't want that answer. I don't want an answer, I want to see. I want to see what happens. And part of me would just, I want to reach people. I want to reach people with what I'm doing and what I'm saying, and hope that maybe it helps people, hope that maybe it opens something up. So that really lights a fire under me. That that makes this book like the next one I'm writing, I don't know. Um so it's starting really weird. I gotta tell you, it's got a real weird vibe, but I'm kind of liking it. I'm kind of liking there's like a a twistedness to it already, and I'm just starting. And I kind of like that.

Anne Kingston 46:40

Go for it.

Von denMeer 46:40

It embrace the twisted. Exactly. I think um, but but that other book, it's god, it's just so much of my heart in that book. So I oh yeah, that's also what makes it again super vulnerable and scary to share. And um yeah, yeah, this is it's a process, and I am a work in process, a million percent over. Um, so yeah, so what we kind of, you know, this sort of came about we were well, actually we're looking for an outlet to kind of give us something to help people get to know us and get to know what we do and what we think and how we write and why we write. And and it isn't um the people that we've spoken to already, none of them are writers. So this is not a a writing podcast. We happen to be writers, and we'll always be probably talking from. I I do um am kind of a badass crocheter, so I may digress into some crochet talk here and there. And you know, uh, don't even get me started on my job. But uh no. Um, so this isn't a writing podcast at all. It's a pivot podcast, it's a a podcast about how we consciously change our lives and how we deal with change in our lives consciously. How's that for a tagline?

Anne Kingston 48:06

Yeah, that's I like it. And and the thing is about the writing is you know, it'll be in and out of this podcast. But I think to introduce why we came up with this idea really did originate from both of us really taking a look at our lives and going, I don't think I want to do this for the rest of my life. I want to do that. I want to do that. I I I'm meant for more.

Von denMeer 48:27

I want to do exactly yes, I am meant for more. And all the designer handbags in the world will never fill that part of me. Yes. I mean, it that's a it's a that was the emptiness that made me kind of know that it's like well, I'm uh grateful again, totally grateful and everything. I'm not in any way saying I want it to stop, universe. You know what I mean? But oh god, that's great. It's great, it's great, it's great. Um, bring it down. No, um, we're not superstitious at all.

Anne Kingston 49:07

No, no, no. Um a little OCD too. Yeah, maybe.

Von denMeer 49:13

Uh-oh.

Anne Kingston 49:15

I know there's a diagnosis. Repeated, repeated, repeated, repeated, repeated. Finally, it'll feel good.

Von denMeer 49:23

Yes, yes. Um, no, no. Um I I think that um yeah, this just sort of it came about kind of organically, and we thought it would be fun, and it has been fun so far. Um full disclosure, we're recording our our first episode here. We've uh we needed to get some podcasts under our belt. We needed to kind of figure out who we are, and I I have to tell you, you all out there won't know this, but it really worked because um we got it together now. And and I hope you don't think that's sad. Um, I mean, uh we we really did kind of um grow a lot doing that, and it's I don't know. I I think there's just there's the kind of people in the world who will kind of go through life and be like, oh, that that might be cool or whatever. And then there's the kind of people who are like, you want to make a podcast? Yeah, and that would be us. We're the kind of people like, yeah, why not? And we've been fighting actually, too, with the people we talk to, you want to be on a podcast? Yeah. And it's like, those are the kind of people. And so I guess that, you know, if you're out there and you're listening, our legions of fans that will be at some point here. And you would like to come on and talk about your experience with pivot. Um, we have a website, it's pivothappens.com, and you can go there and there's a form um to just submit and let us kind of know your what you're thinking, your story. Um, if there's something you'd like to see, even or see, yeah. Uh see here, uh on here, a topic you'd like to see covered, tell us that too. If you have nice things to say, say them. If you have bad things, you can keep those to yourself. Um we we're not looking for that. Um and um yeah, because we are interested in hearing your story. I mean, that's that that's it's fascinating. Um, we won't write about you. We promise that we won't ever use your your story unless you want to.

Anne Kingston 51:20

You'd have to really piss us off to write about just kidding. Yeah. Yeah, maybe that's true. Other people have been beautiful influences, let's just say that. Beautiful, as well as others have been really great influences on the on the antagonists.

Von denMeer 51:39

Yeah. Yeah. And I always say, like, I think of Taylor Swift and Natalie Maines from The Chicks, and it's like, don't piss off a woman with a recorded contract.

Anne Kingston 51:51

I am telling you right now, the writing is the best form of therapy when you are pissed off at someone. Don't piss off a writer. You might end up in my book. Well, it's true, because it's the best form of therapy. It's the best form of telling you. It really is.

Von denMeer 52:08

It really is. It's it's very fun. Um, and it is, I mean, again, full circle back to you know, why I started writing my book. It was some things are unanswerable, and so I made up my own answers, and I made up my own story, and it was like that was how it all started, and it really was. I mean, it is very therapeutic. It's like, and because I got to write a happier ending. I mean, I didn't, I don't want to in any way imply that my book um, you know, it's an intense book. It is, I will fully admit my story is intense and everything, but I found a way to create hope out of it, to create that even if some things didn't turn out right, they don't always have to turn out that way. And if you make the decision to turn your life around, lives can be turned around. Because I I've lived that I, you know, I went through that, I lived it. So I know it's true. It might not be true for everybody because some people make other choices and they're really hard to understand, but you know, um we can't we can't control other people's destiny, and we we can just try to ride along with them and and maybe try to find a way to reach out to people before they get to those points of not being able to stick around here with us. So okay, so this is our first episode of the Pivot Happens podcast, and we're so happy you joined us. We're so happy you listened today. And again, pivothappens.com is our website. Feel free to pitch an idea for a show. Feel free to give us an idea or let us know if you want to be on the show. Yeah. Um, yeah. Again, not sure how often we're going to be doing this. Uh, all of this will be determined. This is all very new for us, and I don't know if people have picked up on it or not, but we are not seasoned veterans of podcasting. Yeah, no.

Anne Kingston 54:05

Um we're doing this. We're just following the path.

Von denMeer 54:08

Yeah, we're doing this because we thought it was a good idea, and so it's uh like I said, it's a little podcast that could. And uh again, everything's free, no paywalls, nothing like that. We're just gonna plug the plug our own stuff, plug the shit we like, and and if you want to sponsor us, feel free. We will definitely accept sponsorships. Um right now it's sponsored by um Trail of Desire, the latest romance novel by Ann Kingston. They are brought to you by Trail of Desire. And the forthcoming by Untangling the Shambles. I said it out loud. That's the name of my book, Untangling the Shambles, by Von Den. And remember, uh, you'll be stronger than you know when you get there, so don't fear the pivot.

Speaker 1 55:00

Seriously, we are 100% non-qualified unprofessional armchair psychologists. The Pivot Happens podcast is for entertainment purposes only, and is not a substitute for any form of professional mental or physical health care. If you are experiencing any mental health issues, please reach out and find qualified help. If you do not currently have a support system in place, the NAMI helpline provides the one-on-one help and information necessary to tackle tough challenges that you, your family or friends are facing. Call, text, or email with the helpline MF, 10 a.m. to 10 p.m. Eastern Time, 988 Crisis Service available 247. Call 1-800-9506-264. Text text namey to 62,640 in a crisis. Call or text nine eight eight.