Routes and Roots
One Diaspora, Two Destinies.
Two continents. Two generations. Zero filters.
What happens when a Nigerian tech professional and a veteran Black American Principal trade perspectives? Routes and Roots explores the collision of the African immigrant hustle and the foundational U.S. experience.
From the innovation hubs of health tech to the front lines of education, we dissect the gap between the routes we’ve traveled and the roots that keep us standing. Whether it’s global politics, generational wealth, or the "hot takes" that usually stay in the group chat, we’re bringing the conversation to the mic.
Grab a seat. It’s time to bridge the gap.
Routes and Roots
The Final Root: Death, Grief, Secrets, and the Business of Leaving
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We don’t talk about death until it’s standing on our doorstep. This week, we peel back the layers of the final transition. From the cultural weight of rituals to the chaos left behind by secrets, we explore how death colors our perception of life. We discuss the intersection of grief and social media, the complexities of estate planning, and the messy reality of forgiving—or being betrayed by—the departed. It’s an honest, conversation about loss, legacy, and why preparing for the end is the ultimate act of love for those we leave behind.
Hey Brandon. Namdi, how are you?
SPEAKER_00I'm well, are you?
SPEAKER_01I can't complain too much. It's like 90 degrees in New York today.
SPEAKER_00It's finally beginning to feel like summer.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, until Friday when the temperature drops to 60.
SPEAKER_00At least we got the 90s last week and this week.
SPEAKER_01Fair.
SPEAKER_00So I'm gonna stay in gratitude.
SPEAKER_01Okay.
SPEAKER_00That's something you should learn. I don't know. You Americans.
SPEAKER_01Oh, you want to make it an American thing?
SPEAKER_00Everything is always a complaint, like, oh, the weather is this, the economy is that. Anyway.
SPEAKER_01Well, Nigerians live in sorry. Sorry, sorry, sorry, sorry.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, it's been it's polite, you know?
SPEAKER_01Yeah, it's polite after you've been rude to someone and they say sorry. I don't know about being rude to people.
SPEAKER_00It's a it's polite to say sorry, but you know where that comes from? You people say you idiot. But you know where that comes from? Where does that come from? Translation. So when you think about English vocabulary and certain African language vocabulary is not a one-to-one. And so sometimes there are places where we have more expanded words for things and English has just one word, and there are other places where English has more words for things, and all of that is one word in the African language. So for example, I'm Igbo and is sorry. But yeah, it's sorry, but it can mean I'm sorry I did something to you, I'm sorry you are in this situation, I'm sorry you're in pain, uh I'm sorry I didn't hear you the first time. So it can be used in several different things, in several different things, and so you can imagine that if English, if English is not your first language, or you learned how to speak Igbo and English at the same time, you're almost translating between the two languages. And so, yes, I'm saying sorry, but in this context, I'm not saying sorry because I did anything bad, but I'm saying because I'm empathizing with you because that's the way you would say indo in many ways in my language. So I think part of that comes from then, not necessarily a cultural thing, as much as a language vocabulary translation thing.
SPEAKER_01Understood. It took you six years to explain that to me. Because I don't know, like I'll be like, Why is he saying sorry? I bumped my hair, you say sorry, sorry. So it means sorry that happened to you.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, as opposed to sorry I did something that cost me.
SPEAKER_01Right, but that's how I was receiving it. Like, you didn't do anything while you're saying sorry. So now after all this time it makes sense.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, because these days I deal with a lot of language, language translation in healthcare. Yeah, because you're speaking to people in several different countries, and not even that, but even just the technical work I do has has to involves a lot of language translation of health in multiple languages against English. So I think I'm becoming more acutely aware of of things like that. But anyway, how's your weekend be? We missed recording last week. Um I got text messages, WhatsApp, Instagram DMs from people saying, Where is our episode? I was like, guys, okay, so first of all, Bram is a very busy and very important person. So the fact that he shows up here once every two weeks to record, I I did you understand that he takes time out of his very busy schedule running his school network to come and be here, and so what it means is that some weeks he has other commitments and he needs to go for them. And so I think what had happened, you had a commitment and it just couldn't happen. And and to be fair, Brandon Fought, he said, let's do it on Monday, let's do it on Wednesday, let's do it.
SPEAKER_01And I was like, No, we're just gonna wait until you were out of town the week before, too. So sometimes in the past, we were recorded a week in advance so that we can release on the right day. But you were in California, and then I had a commitment on our normal recording night, which is Tuesdays. So I couldn't do it last week, so we ended up missing two weeks in a row. And now we're gonna have to record two weeks back to back to get these next two episodes.
SPEAKER_00You see, so we did something not so nice, and now there is a repercussion for it. So yeah, we're going, but it's not because we do enjoy making this for you guys. So absolutely. We're definitely going to record this week, we're gonna record next week. So please look out for um releases this Friday and next week Friday, and that will be episode eight and episode nine, and then we're getting ready for our grand finale, and we'll talk to you at the end of this recording today about what we are thinking for the CZ finale, episode 10, and how we want to show up in season two. Anything around that?
SPEAKER_01Uh no, I think you hit it.
SPEAKER_00Okay, okay. So, what have you what I know you said you you were invited for this, but what's been going on the last three weeks in your life? I feel like I haven't seen you.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, it's been crazy, and it feels like I think it was crazy for both of us because you had a lot going on.
SPEAKER_00It's about you.
SPEAKER_01No, it's about both of us. Routes and roots.
SPEAKER_00All right, go ahead.
SPEAKER_01Uh, I think we both had so much going on, work-wise, and stuff like that. For me, it was all around testing season um at school, like getting the uh New York State testing done, getting makeups done for kids, like that whole thing around it. And then as soon as that finished, it was teacher appreciation week. Now, normally that falls within testing. We move ours outside of the regular like national teachers appreciation week. So I shifted it uh a week later, okay, just so that it's not happening or coincide with testing, because then I feel like teachers can't celebrate properly, I can't manage it properly, and so it's just you know, too much.
SPEAKER_00I'm smiling hard, I'm smiling hard here, guys, because teacher appreciation week, some of you might know what that is, but uh Brandon, if you want to tell them about it and the different things you had to do because I mean, come on, you have to brag because I would never do those things, but you did it and you showed up for your school and for your teacher. So talk about what is teacher appreciation week and what did you guys do Monday to Friday?
SPEAKER_01For those that might not know, anybody that has children in school, you should appreciate your teachers.
SPEAKER_00I don't know how we do that in Nigeria, to be fair. Teachers appreciation.
SPEAKER_01You know what? I think it's a thing here, I think it's a natural respect for educators, especially in a country where you have to pay for your child to go to school because education is free here. I think it's uh it doesn't get the same level of respect.
SPEAKER_00So you're saying we already hold our teachers in Nigeria to such high regard, so we don't have to dedicate a week to say we love you and all of that.
SPEAKER_01Right, because uh you don't even say teacher, you say professor, right? Like even say teachers, even at a young age, yeah. Not professor. Okay. Um, but I think you just hold, you know, there you have to pay to go to school, right? Even grade school. So, you know, obviously if your parents are I mean, fairness, you guys pay here, you pay taxes. Yeah, but it's not the same, it's not viewed the same. You actually had to pay out your paycheck, and they didn't force it out of your paycheck. Yes, yes. These kids wouldn't be in school. Fantastic. Trust me. Um you're welcome. Right. Oh my goodness. But teacher appreciation week is a week to celebrate all of the hard work that teachers uh put in throughout the year. It's an opportunity for like the leadership team to plan certain uh themes and events for them uh throughout that week. Uh, and then Friday is like usually like the big day where they receive like some type of gift, uh, and we go for like an outing, you know, have adult beverages, that type of thing, uh, to end the week.
SPEAKER_00So um it's a lot of all an education.
SPEAKER_01Nobody said that it won't get me on here with that. Uh so anyway, uh it's a lot of early mornings, uh getting up, making breakfast for them. We have uh breakfast morning, coffee and pastries, all these different I made a hundred smoothies uh for my staff of different types of things.
SPEAKER_00And that's on period. Yeah, and that's on Mary had a little lamb, and that's on an iron chef.
SPEAKER_01All these turns. And that's on millennials ninja blender, right?
SPEAKER_00And that's on power smoothie cleanse. You know, so tell me what kind of smoothies did you make?
SPEAKER_01Um, I made green smoothies, I made strawberry banana smoothies, uh like regular mixed fruit smoothies like mangoes and berries. Um strawberry banana and ginger was a big hit. They they kept telling me I put too much ginger in my smoothie. They're like, oh, ginger. That's me. That's me. Like, but I like a lot of ginger.
SPEAKER_00Does it count as a smoothie if bananas are not part of it?
SPEAKER_01Yeah, I have bananas in it too.
SPEAKER_00No, I'm axing. Oh, yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_01Some of them did have bananas.
SPEAKER_00So let me tell you my smoothie, the one I like. I like watermelon, especially now that we're in the summer, so it's fresh and organic.
SPEAKER_01I like not from the bodega.
SPEAKER_00No, not from the bodego. You are the one bringing up the running joke, so fine. Watermelon, especially in the summer. Um, what do you call it? Ginger. And I like you, I like a lot of ginger in it. Fresh baby spinach leaves, and I just pack a punch in there. Like I can do like a whole bag or two bags of it within that blender. Um, and then a little bit of sweetness. I can either do one clove of um dates, yeah, because it's high in sugar, or I do some cubes of um pineapple, yeah, and then I blend it. Now, if I'm like on a serious, I want to not just be healthy, but I want to lose some weight and all, guess what? I activate celery.
SPEAKER_01Celery, yeah.
SPEAKER_00And do you know why? Why it's a reverse calorie um food. Do you know what that means? It means your body burns more calories, digesting it, than the food itself releases calories. Because you know the whole process of digestion is energy sapping, which is why whether you exercise or not, the average man burns about 2,000 um kilocalories a day, and the average woman burns about 1500. So as long as you're not eating more than a thousand calories a day, you should you naturally just lose weight because your body burns calories to stay alive, if that makes sense. Um most foods are calorie positive, meaning the amount of energy your body burns to digestive to digest the food is less than the amount of energy the food releases. So a piece of cake is a thousand calories, your body spends 400 burning it. So the net positive is 600 calories. Does that make sense? Celery is a negative calorie food because if your body spends 200 calories digesting essentially fiber and water, the amount of calories for meat is like 10. So it's one of those snacks that you can eat, eat, eat, eat, eat, eat, eat, and fill up and end up feeling um tired or whatever because your body will take the time to burn all of that fiber and and absorb all of that water, and the amount of calories it gets for meat is not even up to one quarter the amount of calories you use to digest it. So, but I don't do that except like I want to be very severe, but usually I stop at the watermelon, ginger, and baby spinach, and then either some cubes of um pineapple or some dates.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, so you're saying that instead of all these people taking to Zepposide, they could just eat celery.
SPEAKER_00I mean, if you don't have money for trepas top ties are expensive. I I think I think there's this idea that oh, I'll just take this. Well, even with good health insurance, you're paying what 150 does health insurance cover because people are like ordering it through the mail or something like that. Yeah, so I think role, the one that um Serena advertises, says your health, some of it you can submit your insurance and it can tell you if you qualify, and so so I think there are some um codes that may make you qualify. So, example, if you're clinically obese and it's proven in your medical records, I think you qualify. If you suffer from type 2 diabetes, I think you qualify. So that so there are certain conditions, syndrome X that you may have that will call will qualify you and your insurance will have to cover. But I'm saying even without a prescription, without a prescription, yeah. Um, but I'm saying even with that it's what 150 a month, and the problem is by the time you get to month two, month three, you need a different titration, and so that so where you may have started with 0.25 units per 10 mils of the injection, and that was working wonders. In order for you to stay that effective, you have to go to like 0.5, 0.75, one. Um, and by the time you start to titrate up for the same vial that you bought for $150, you're buying for $500.
SPEAKER_01That's what I've been hearing people are saying, and then they end up gaining the weight back if they can't afford it.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, because you could because you can't afford to keep keeping the book. So I can pay $150 month one, I can pay $200 month two, but by the time you're in month six, and they're telling you that same one-monthly shot is six hundred dollars, then you start to make the trade-off. Is that grocery money, gas money? And listen, in this age of disclosure, let's not even go there.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, exactly.
SPEAKER_00So, so yeah, so why not just do celery? Yeah, that's that's uh I'll just say be careful with it because I sometimes you know me, I would get up in the morning on a Saturday, take 20-30,000 steps. Please guys, don't do this. Take 20, 30,000 steps, go to the gym, have a whole session, come back, drink a celery-infused moody, and then at like three o'clock in the afternoon, I'm shaking. I know I'm hypoglycemic. I don't know about it. Listen, Slim is uh is right.
SPEAKER_01Fat is a preservative.
SPEAKER_00Round is a shape.
SPEAKER_01So it's triangle.
SPEAKER_00Alright, alright, alright, alright, alright. Um what else did you do apart from um teacher's week?
SPEAKER_01Um nothing else has been going on. Like I tried to use my weekends to rest. Um a shout out to one of our listeners. Uh I won't say her name, but uh she because I don't know if she wants her business out there like that. Uh I went to her cross and she crossed uh Alpha Kappa Alpha Sorority in Corporate.
SPEAKER_00I didn't get that invite. The shade of it all. I did not get I'm not calling your name, but that's not I didn't get that invite.
SPEAKER_01She well, you know, the people she invited. I'm just all of them. Come on, we love her.
SPEAKER_00We're like part of she gave us free YouTube TV.
SPEAKER_01Wow, we just speaking of disclosure It's hard in this economy hilarious. But shout out to her, yeah to all the ladies of the sorority of Alpha Kappa Alpha uh Incorporated. Yes, yes, yeah, as well. It was a really nice ceremony. So I did have at least something social to do to break it up, yeah. And I think you went to see your oh I went to see my my great auntie, uh she'll be 95 this year. Wow, that's a blessing. It is a huge uh blessing. So my cousin was in town. Uh shout out to him. Uh, and then him and his uh lady friend, as we call it, uh we went to see my aunt in Queen. So that was wonderful. Uh to see her at dinner uh and everything. My cousin, yeah, to to be the age. She is the matriarch of our family. Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_00Okay, such a blessing. All right, for me, I went to California, it was work, work, work, but I fell back in love with bike riding because there were like free bikes in the campus where I work, and so that was like really cool. So I remember that my last day there I rode that bicycle for all of um what two two and a half hours, and so by the time I got to the airplane, red eye, I just passed out and did not wake up till the morning. But then for a for a moment it made me say, Oh, maybe I should go get a new bicycle and all of that. But then I think I've I've I've got was it like a beach cruiser? No, no, no, it was just a regular, you know, like the city bikes. So long, farewell, Lavi, I say goodnight. The sound of music bicycles, though, ready a female team. Do you remember that? Do you remember that movie?
SPEAKER_01The fact that you sung the song, yeah.
SPEAKER_00The bicycle. Oh, right, yeah, yeah, yeah. That's what those bicycles are.
SPEAKER_01It's like like a beach cruiser, like it looks like a you know, it's not like a a trek or like a speed bike. No, no, no, no.
SPEAKER_00I'll probably run into the highway and kill myself. So I think I like the one that was there, so it was safe enough. So that that was that a lot of singing for me. We're coming to the end of our semester, and then we have to re-audition us again in um August, September, but that would be cool. So looking forward to that. I will be taking some voice classes as well this summer. So I'm really looking forward to that. Um, what else? I did some cooking, I made some yam sweet potato porridge.
SPEAKER_01Nice, so I haven't cooked in a while.
SPEAKER_00I haven't cooked in a very long while, so I don't know what entered me. Um, I think what it was was that on Saturday I went to a buffet and it was okay.
SPEAKER_01Oh, you didn't enjoy it? It was like the Brazilian.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, I was just yeah, I it just felt like I was eating meat for the sake of meat, if that makes sense. You understand?
SPEAKER_01But that's why you go like you go like twice a year, because that's like exactly it feels like a treat.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, so this is my first time this year, and I think what maybe what it was was that I didn't have a drink, so I was I didn't have the not enough bars to be to be to feel uh a little fiery margarita.
SPEAKER_01No, no, no, no.
SPEAKER_00So the thing is I don't want to so if I went with a friend, I probably will, but because I'm alone, that that that margarita is quite powerful, so I'm like I don't need a bus driving anywhere in Trump's America. So I'm just I'm just going to be careful, you know. So exactly.
SPEAKER_01So I especially in your neighborhood.
SPEAKER_00So I had my San Pellegrino water there.
SPEAKER_01Next time you should just take a Uber there because it's right near your house.
SPEAKER_00The privilege of it all. Okay, next time I'll just be rich. I will just call you to send me Uber money. Have you not heard when the age of disclosure? Meanwhile, I just paid my last batch of taxes to uh the Pennsylvania state. So you pay taxes in what three states? Listen, so I'm just like everybody should leave me alone, nobody should talk to me.
SPEAKER_01But I should ask you for nothing.
SPEAKER_00Don't ask me for nothing, nothing, nothing. Did you understand? Yeah, but anyway, um, I think that's a good catch-up. I'm sorry the guys is taking long this intro, but because we haven't spoken to you guys in three weeks, I felt like we can't just gloss over and pretend that it wasn't three weeks ago because a lot of you just giving the reactions to the emails and text messages I got, you guys are already forming a community with us, so we owe it to you guys to make sure you understand to the extent that we can share some of the intimate details of our life outside of the one-hour recording that we do. But we have a topic, all right. Topic eight. We're going to be doing something a bit more different, but I feel like if there is if there are two people who have the emotional um and intelligent quotient to manage this conversation in a fun but serious way, with the right level of empathy and um gravitas that it is, it's me and you, and that's a high bar. So I hope we're very high bar. Yeah, I hope we don't fall flat, right? But we're talking about the final taboo grief, death, culture, and the business of living, living meaning meaning L-E-A-V-I-N-G. So living the earth. Okay, so and the reason is you know, we don't talk about death a lot, especially in the black community, whether it's the diaspora, whether it's the foundational black uh Americans, whether it's um immigrant Africans coming in. And I I feel like it's important one of those things I would like us to peel back and really delve into, and I really want us to contrast a lot of the points we'll talk about today from an immigrant perspective, from an American perspective, from a Gen X and a millennial perspective as well. Um, and the inspiration for this is on a personal note. I lost a very good friend of mine um earlier um late last week, and it's like it was just a shock to me and a lot of people that knew him. And I think in my mind, there's a part of it that's like I'm now at the age where maybe not my friends, but my friends' parents are beginning to leave like pass away, and so I'm becoming more confronted or affronted with the reality of um the fact that we will not live forever and we will need to transition, and what does that mean? And then just making sure it's something we can talk about and unbundle and unpack. So that's really what the inspiration was for this. Um and so maybe we'll just start with the very obvious thing the cultural issue. Ecos and how death you know is sort of subsumed within the cultures and the life experiences that both of us um come from in different directions. Um do you want to go first? Yeah.
SPEAKER_01Um I think that for me um it has always been a thing like from a very young age. And I think the earliest I remember like really understanding uh death uh was when my uncle was killed in a car crash, my dad's brother. Um and he was like a very popular guy, you know, like always had a nice clean car, always dressed nice, um, you know, was you know very accommodating to the ladies. I'll say it like that. Uh, you know, so um I think like not really fully understanding, but seeing the the most vivid memory I have is how grief affected my parents, like how my dad responded, and then how my mom responded trying to support him, right? Um and then I remember like all the talk like as the years and everything progressed, like um, about having your things in order. Because he was young, you know, but he had children. Um, and so I think like that was my first memory of not people had died, but I didn't remember like that. Um, like from a very young age, my grandmother passed in our home. I was three years old. Uh so um, but not understanding death, it was more of an understanding once they got to um my uncle and like what that meant, you know, moving forward.
SPEAKER_00Okay. I th I think for me my earliest memory of death there wasn't a lot of death when I was growing up that was immediate. And in and in just saying that, I know there's privilege in that, but we we thank God, right? Um, but I think the first time it really sort of I was really confronted with it was when because before I was born, one of my grandparents was gone. So my father's father died before I was born, so I never met him, so I I didn't get that experience. So I had grandfather, grandmother on my mom's side, grandmom on my dad's side, and my grandmom on my dad's side lived too close to a hundred. So I was in medical school when she passed away, and it was one of those things that confused me because she needed a medical procedure that was more aesthetic than oh a life-threatening thing. So oh, she she she was walking on a walking stick and was trying to do some corrections to straighten the leg and all of that for whatever reason. And so she went in and the surgery was successful, but she didn't wake up from the anesthesia. So it was like oh why, so why why did this happen? Was it was it needless? Did it need to happen? And then what does it mean to say, oh, so we'll never see I would never see my grandmom again? And I think somewhere in my mind I just refused to engage with what that was, you understand, and I think I just used the distraction of medical school and the tediousness with it to just focus on that and not allow myself to process what that was, right? And then my grandfather and my grandmother on my mom's side came, lived with us, and died in our house. So, in fact, my maternal grandfather died in the room I grew up in. So, my room, because when you when I left my room to go to university, medical school, you come home twice uh two weeks in the whole year. So he sort of moved into that room, and that was the room he was in, and um you know, eventually died. Um but I think in in those three because they sort of I saw them as old people and then they died, maybe there was a part of me that sort of accepted it as it were. But then I remember my mom's brother died. Um the first one died when I was much younger. Um and because I had very faint memory of him, I didn't really it didn't really occur to me what had happened, but the second one I knew him knew him. So like when I would go to Abuja, I would always go and see him and we would have conversations and and and he would call me and talk about marriage and girlfriend and all of that good stuff. So so I knew him knew him. So to just wake up one day and get a phone call um from Nigeria saying he just had a sudden heart attack and he's been rushed to the hospital, and then I get another phone call telltimate that he's dead. I think that was like one of the first times like it was like a slap on my face, and I think my other one was then my father's brother having cancer and dying, and then just seeing what that kind of more chronic thing is. So I'd seen the sodden, and I had seen the more long-term, slow deterioration that leads to death, and then I'll say my last thing about death, and unfortunately this one desensitized me was being a first-year medical doctor and having to work in the teaching hospital, and because it's like the last level of medical care you can receive, the hardest cases are the ones that come there, and so what it means is that by that time the case is super critical, it's like a 50-50 hanging in the balance. So having the case end up as death was not out of the normal expectation because people were not showing up to the teaching hospital when things were still early, you understand? And so it's like two people died, three people died, five people died, and then suddenly death just started becoming a number, and uh, and I think it was one of the things that I think I couldn't manage that forced me to leave medical practice, as it were. So, in a lot of ways, um, that that has been so so let me ask you culturally, community-wise, spiritually, religiously, what do you think death is? Is that some type of metaphysical transformation to another dimension? Is that the soul goes somewhere, or is that no, you die, you die, and that ends there. What where do your beliefs around death stand and what's what has shaped them for you?
SPEAKER_01Yeah, yeah, um, definitely they have changed over the years. Um, as you know, I've become more understanding of the Bible. You know, I'm a believer in the Bible, um, understanding, you know, that there is a heaven and a hell, uh, and then there's a place you go before the judgment. So I believe in the judgment as well. Um, and I think we always have these saying is, you know, I can't wait to see my mom in heaven and that type of thing. Like, we won't ever see each other again in this physical form, um, as well. And we'll probably be so glad that we made it to heaven, we're not gonna be looking for anybody in particular. Uh also, um, so I think I my understanding of it now is that yes, there's a heaven, yes, there's a hell. Um, obviously, I want to live my life so that I go to heaven, but I don't have the understanding that I'm gonna see my parents again and recognize them as I did on this earth. Like, we're gonna have this great reunion in in heaven and be able to say, like, oh, this all this happened once you left, and this is how my life changed, and you know, that type of thing. Like, that won't happen, you know. That that's what I believe. You know, I don't want to change that for someone else because some people need that for comfort to say like they're gonna see that love when they, you know, they and initially I did too. Like, that's what I wanted to believe, especially my mom died. She died when I was young. So um I needed to believe I'm gonna see her again that she's watching over me. Like, we say these things um as like comfort sayings. Um, but I don't know how much like thought we put into like, are they really true? Because no, my mom is not like looking at me and seeing what I do on a day-to-day basis, because there are times I don't want her to see what I'm doing as well. Like, nah, Ma, you shouldn't be watching me, or people have a picture of their loved one and how they turn it, you know, around, or something like that. So um, I just believe that, you know, uh my parents have gone on, they've transitioned uh from this life. Um they live the best life they could here, and my hope is in the judgment, God is going to that their good outweighs their bad, and that yes, they're going to heaven. That's my hope.
SPEAKER_00So you meet so let me let me try and summarize what I think I had. You're saying there's life after death. You're saying, according to what I believe are your Christian beliefs, that there will be a judgment day and everybody will give account for their works, but what you're what you don't agree with is that you are going to be reunited with them specifically.
SPEAKER_01Right. Okay. I don't believe that.
SPEAKER_00Okay, okay. So I think the concept of heaven and hell is one that is very interesting to me, and the reason is because yes, I'm Christian and Catholic specifically, but in every other major religion, or many other religions, Buddhism, Hinduism, Islam, all sorts of other religions um that are very old, the concept of heaven and hell, good and bad, um punishment and reward, that sort of duality has is quite consistent as a theme across different um religions, and so you start to wonder how is it that different religions ended up with very similar sort of dichotomous duality of there's a way you can end up as good or as bad and all, and is that a lot of just socialization? Is that a lot of just human evolution? Because I just find it interesting that different people came up with different ethos and all ended up in this ended up in the same place of at the end of the day, there will be a good thing or a bad thing that will happen depending on what you've done here. So, how much of that is that and how much of it is truly Christian beliefs, if that if that makes sense, yeah.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, I think like again to your point, like think talking about uh human evolution and that type of thing. Like, if we're saying in the beginning, you know, there was Adam and Eve, Cain and Abel, that good versus evil was right from the beginning, right?
SPEAKER_00Like, even in, you know, even I mean the guardian says there was a truth of life and the truth of good and evil, and don't eat of that knowledge fruit, and they ate, and here we are.
SPEAKER_01Right, and then it passed on to the children, right? So it didn't stop with them like now was some type of punishment for them. Um, it was also passed on to their children, where now Cain kills every, you know, so um that continued. And so it would only make sense to me that it would um progress into religion too. Like once religion and faith came along, like what we know it as today, all of these different religions, like it would have made its way into that as well.
SPEAKER_00So let me tell you another thing I find interesting, hell. So growing up Hell in general, yeah there's a way in which there's a way there's a way no, there's a way in which um I used to think about hell as this um thing of fire, brimstone, gnashing of teeth, your skin will boil. And and that I mean there are many theological books, even non-Christian books that talk about degrees of hell and how in one level is sulfur, another level is brimstone, and all sorts of things that happen there. But but then I was like, okay, so did God create us to come on earth and play the squid game? And for those of us that fail on the squid game, we will then be thrown into the lake of fire to just so I I think there was something just inefficient about the whole system that says game reference for me.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, that's a channel.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, that how do you go from I before you were born, I knew you, I formed every strand of your hair to now play this game, and in this game you can either pass or fail. And if you feel here are all the horrible things that will happen to you. And I I think now my my relationalism to hell is to be in a place where you are departed or caught from the love of God. Yes, and and that's where I am at the moment. I don't know, speak on that.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, um, I think that for me, yes, hell was always preached about, talked about, and viewed as this torturous place, like you're going there to, you know, you don't want to go there because you're gonna be tortured or whatever. And so it was, you know, what we call hell-fire and brimstone preaching. Like, you need to be Christian, you need to be faithful, all of this stuff, because of the fear of hell. Um, and I think that as Christianity evolved, uh, you started to hear less of that, you started to hear more of prosperity preaching because people were like, listen, if I'm going to hell, I'm going to I'm going with a bang. I can't do all of the things. I can't live in this field. I'm going to do all of the bad things, and on Easter and Mother's Day, and Christmas, I'll go to church. But like, I can't just keep going and hearing this. And so preachers had to adjust because you're going to lose members, you know, and especially as uh their members became more educated. Right. Um, I think that started a shift. People weren't going to hear that type of sermon. You needed to speak to all the different levels of members you have in the church. And so this brother with a PhD is not here for hellfire and from stuff. You know, the sister raising her three kids by herself, maybe. Because she's like, Well, how did I get myself in this position? And, you know, God is gonna do it and help me out of this, and I want to protect my kids. But so um I think that there had to be an adjustment in that, you know, preaching everybody's going to hell because we're all evil and that type of thing, okay, versus you know, um, the goodness of God and how God, the love of God, and how God is good, yeah, you know, like and to be cut off from that goodness is hell in itself, whatever that is.
SPEAKER_00Okay, and then just to close off the religion colouring of death, I want to ask another tongue-in-cheek question. Do you believe in reincarnation?
SPEAKER_01No.
SPEAKER_00Why?
SPEAKER_01It's not a why, no. I don't think believe in God and believe in reincarnation, but that's not how he designed it.
SPEAKER_00But but haven't you seen people that it almost feels like they've lived this life before?
SPEAKER_01Yeah, they have an old soul.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, what are the what are we?
SPEAKER_01Yeah, but what do you think an old soul is? Did your grandma raise you? No.
SPEAKER_00No, no, no, no.
SPEAKER_01Just like no, no, no, no, no. A little bit's grandchild.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, and little bit has come back through you. Yes, yes, to live again.
SPEAKER_01No, no, no. It is opponent, wants to a man to live and wants to die. So if that's the case, then you can't say that and believe in the Bible.
SPEAKER_00I know, but but you know, there's a part of me, and this is the African immigrant part of me that wants to hold on to the cultural belief before the white man came and told us about white Jesus that reincarnation is a thing. And and you see it in the way we we prayed, and our family gods came back, and and somebody that left came like you know, and I mean some of it were a way to explain grief. So, for example, um sickle cell was a thing, and so you can imagine that a child will be born as a sickle cell carrier or a sickle cell like themselves, SS, and then will die from a crisis at one or two years old, and then and then the family will give birth again and bring back. So, in those kinds of cases, you you had um things like that show up with multiple deaths going back and forth, but uh, but but there's still some people you read about, and you're like, there's something here about reincarnation that just makes sense to me.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, I believe it was a thing. Like, obviously, there was Lazarus, right? So I believe it was a thing, but first let me correct you. Uh, yes, they came and bought us the white Jesus, but Jesus is black. Um, and that's my belief. He's brown, brown, black, hair of wool. I've never seen hair of wool on the black. Or the black man. Yeah, okay. I'm just gonna go with that. With the bronze skin, like he's at least at best. Given Ethiopian, Ethiopian unit, like it is given Ethiopian, yes, which with a mixture of uh Eastern Africans and Middle Eastern, so somewhere in that lineage, yes. Okay, and and I believe the original original Jews were black brown people.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, you know, I I don't want to go into some of that because that's because we we can have a whole nother episode of it.
SPEAKER_01So let's get back into what we're talking about.
SPEAKER_00There's Noah's son who was dark skinned and saw his father naked and he was cursed, and yeah, but no.
SPEAKER_01You have black Jesus in your house.
SPEAKER_00I do, yeah, to the discomfort of my sisters, because I had the discomfort of the priest that came to play for your needs. Because I had the whole mouthful from the Catholic priest, but that's a story for another day. Okay. Um now let's let's move into other dimensions of death. Um, but thank you for being vulnerable about the religions and spiritual, because I wanted to make sure we touched that a bit.
SPEAKER_01So there is a part of you, just to sum up that that segment, that believes in reincarnation, yes. That is, can exist in some form.
SPEAKER_00So there are a couple of things. I believe in the resurrection, I believe in the last day that the faithfuls will be united. I've been doing a lot of um studying of the book of Daniel, the book of uh revelations, and in fact, some of the breakdown of the book of Enoch as well. So my eyes have been opening to a lot of things, so but definitely resurrection, judgment. I believe that hell is to be separated from the love of God and not this thing where your skin is boiling over sulfur, and it is still a part of my Igbo tradition that doesn't want to give up on the idea of reincarnation and that people come, yeah, you know, people people come back, and and and maybe it's what what we call reincarnation is DNA, because if you're if it's the if it's similar DNA mixing and giving birth, then it makes sense that you can be reconstituted in very similar DNA that makes you look like somebody, right? So I remember when my beautiful niece was born. I remember when my beautiful niece was born and um she had no hair in the front of her head, you understand, and and her uh bothered your sister, yeah. Yeah, but but then my brother-in-law was like, That's his mom at old age. So is that a reincarnation of his mom? Who knows, right? No, but DNA definitely, yeah, but DNA might explain it, or it's reincarnation. I mean, these are things that we have to keep an open mind to, yeah.
SPEAKER_01Okay, well, that uh just to close out that there is this thought that um, you know, for everyone that dies, someone like it's taking a place, right? A baby is born um when someone dies. So that is that thought that exists in the African American community.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, okay. So and that and where did that come from?
SPEAKER_01Africa. African slaves, yes.
SPEAKER_00So that's what and I don't want us to lose that, right? Yeah, and at least you keep that conversation open and see because uh this idea of one truth sometimes bothers me, and I I think we should we should give space for other other truths, you understand?
SPEAKER_01Okay, um, yeah, everything God created is wonder.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, yeah, yeah. One one supreme god, yeah.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, but then we're never we're never gonna get off religion. Okay, we can talk about religion. Yeah, we've had these discussions so many times, you and I. So uh we need an episode on that.
SPEAKER_00Guys, let us know if you want an episode on religion and uh philosophy around religion. Um we're happy to do that as a separate episode, but in the context of death, we've answered the question. So let's let's move on. So we have some fan mail that I think will shape the rest of the conversation today, okay. Okay, so I'm gonna read and I'll just ask us to just react to it and give advice or at least talk more on them. Okay, so the first one says, Hi, I'm Toby. I live in the UK. My father died recently in Nigeria. He was a pillar of the community. Three days after the burial, I found out that he had 12 other children who are across the US, UK, and Canada. Some as young as 13. My family and I, my siblings and I were officially four. And I in shock. They showed up at the burial like strangers. I feel my entire life, my history, and my father's integrity was a lie. How do I even start to grieve a man who was a stranger to me?
SPEAKER_01Yes, oh wow. Yeah, that's a lot.
SPEAKER_00I don't know. I think man, we do a lot of very bombastic things.
SPEAKER_01Well, you know what? I guess not striking. It this is not unusual. It's not like this is like a never heard of thing. Now, twelve might be a lot, but it is not unusual for to hear about a situation like this where a man dies and there's another family that shows up at the funeral, or there's other kids uh that show up at the funeral. So this situation is not unusual. It's very unfortunate. Uh so I want to not make light of uh Toby's situation that that is hard that to now have to grieve how he didn't give us his age. To feel like your father's life was a lot, at least as far as you were concerned. Um I guess my advice would be that he was who he was to you, regardless if he had this other family or other children, might have been a few other families. He was who he was to you, um, just as he was to them. And so some may have known about others, you know, because sometimes that happens. Uh, and the main family just is kept in the dark as out for protection, and the new children might might know. Like I know my father has another family in Nigeria or has another family in whatever country. Um, that's a known thing. Maybe that person came to America, you know, to like go to be educated or build a better life or work or whatever, and started having you know children with uh, you know, other women here in America, could have been in different states, that type of thing. So um, you know, agree with your father for who he was to you.
SPEAKER_00Yes, there's a saying that you don't speak ill of the dead in Nigeria, but I it's one of those things that really annoy me because I think a bad person is a bad person. I also think that it's okay for we as men to make mistakes, it's okay for us to also be open about certain things like polygamy. And even when you have secrets like this, I think you owe it to your family to gather yourself, organize your house before you leave, especially giving the email. It sounds like the man was quite accomplished and and and didn't die his sudden death, so you can put your house in order. I think is the phrase people would generally say you need to put your house in order. So, and I think it's the least one can do for their family. I will say, um, like Brandon said, there are different stages of grief. You have to feel what you feel and go through those stages in the way that makes the most sense to you. But Bele, sorry, I I know that this is really hard, but um like he said, you have to remember who he was to you and what that meant, but then maybe it's also a call for us to just do better.
SPEAKER_01Um but what is an or what order may be for you, might not be for someone else, right? So um, and not to make light of it, but I know people live and they make mistakes, or what we view as mistakes. Um, you know, this whether it's this man or another man, and they have these separate families outside of their main family, and there was a time it was accepted and it was the norm, you know. Um, and just like you spoke about earlier, uh how some of the traditional things are still there or still may exist, even with Christianity. Christianity teaches us one wife, you know, that type of thing, right? But prior to that, actually, Christianity says don't marry. But if you must we're gonna save that because you know that we go we go deep there. Jesus was married to the church.
SPEAKER_00I'm just saying one wife, we're gonna save one wife, but you know, go ahead, yeah.
SPEAKER_01One wife, yeah. Uh but prior to that, and even in Old Testament times, uh-huh, right, men had several wives and concubines and that type of thing. Yes, so um, and so with other people's wives. So, like, it's not like these things are unheard of, they were in the Bible and spoken of. And so when these men, and are those men viewed as like bad people or not having their house in order? You know, so now because of the shame around it or the talk about it, men are gonna hide those things. Where there was a time it didn't have to be hidden, it was like viewed as a great thing if you had seven wives, right? And you were taking care of all of them so your house could be visibly in order, right? So this man could have had these children or whatever, but he was supporting them, you know, in a way that maybe financial, maybe not but let me give you social emotional. Maybe he wasn't there, you know.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, but let me give you context. I think why I said put your house in order is because for that family who thought they were four siblings, there was an elder or eldest, that person would have grown up believing all his life that there's a responsibility and the weight of that responsibility he carries as the eldest, especially if he's an eldest son or an eldest daughter. And for 12 people to show up, some of them older than you, some of them younger than you, sort of opends what that might look like, right? There is property that you thought belonged to you and your siblings, and suddenly you are now hearing you have to share things or divide things in ways that you were not thinking, so you have to appreciate that there's an adjustment that comes with that shock of finding out. So it's not just oh my father made a mistake, oops, and 12 children came out of nowhere, but there are severe real life repercussions for that, and they're emotional, they're financial, they are family distress, stress us, and so I think that's the reason why I'm saying we as men just have to hold ourselves up. If you are wealthy enough to have 12 kids in Nigeria, it means you have resources, and if you have resources, it means there is no need to hide. You're in a country where polygamy is not illegal, it's permissible. You know, there are people who go to church in the day and they are shrine in the night and everybody's fine with it. So I'm just trying to understand why there wasn't more of uh an attempt on the father's side to keep put the house in order. Not the mistake is to put the house in order.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, when you speak about it in that context, I can speak about it as someone who actually dealt with this. I didn't find out about um my other brother in my father's death. I found out when I was 12 years old. So I actually had an older brother, older than Dion, uh, that was my father's child, um, that I didn't know about. I don't know because I never asked him if he really knew about the child um and just kind of left it alone as to protect his marriage and his family.
SPEAKER_00Yep.
SPEAKER_01Um, or if it was a surprise to him too, knowing that it was something that happened before my mom, because this this uh man was was much older than me. It was like 10, 12 years older than me. So I don't know, I never asked him questions because I was young when I found out, and then I just knew that was my brother, but he came around some, you know, um, and I saw him some, but um, God rest his soul. Um I never had a relationship with him, you know, and you know, he ended up getting sick and and passing himself, and so it was not a thing where you know I communicated with him like that or tried to, you know, keep him in touch with us or communicate with him like that. So I've actually experienced this. Yeah, you know, it never made me feel like my dad was less of a person, like what he was to me. He was what he was to me. He was always there for me.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, but you knew why your father was alive.
SPEAKER_01Yes, yeah, so that thing is my point. I guess so, like him finding out in his father's death. But even though I knew when my father was alive, I didn't question him about it. Yeah, but my my my So even if he had found out, like what would have been different? What could he have done?
SPEAKER_00So, again, if you were thinking you were the first son that comes with a lot of cultural expectations and responsibilities, there's a way you live in the world.
SPEAKER_01You did say that because I know that about you.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, there's a way you live your life differently. I can't imagine that I've lived my life as a first son with the weight of that, and then one day somebody just shows up after somebody go is dead and says, I'm actually just yeah, you're not actually the old person. Yeah, because it's your identity, it's what you've built yourself on, it's the way you've carried it, it's informed almost every significant choice that you've made, and you've learned to derive certain value from that as and identify yourself with that. So it's not as easy as oh, and here are other people. Welcome to the family league.
SPEAKER_01Is it something you would ask your father though? Like, would you ask your father something like that? Like, how would this ever no?
SPEAKER_00So it's not it's not him. Yeah, I'm saying the father should have put his house together. He didn't die young, he didn't die poor. So there was the privilege of you have you've reached 80 something, there's a privilege of you have resources.
SPEAKER_01And but to me, a man that has those things, it's more of a reason why he wouldn't say anything. Okay because it's like you you don't question me. Yeah, you know, like you know, like at that point, why would he say, Oh, I have all these children in America?
SPEAKER_00He needs to say it because he knows that if I leave, I don't want to create confusion in my family and put my family lineage in a situation where people will fight, people will destroy the family name, and everything I built for will be wrecked in one generation if he cares about things like that.
SPEAKER_01That's fair.
SPEAKER_00Okay, anyway, but I think we're saying very sorry to Toby. Take the time to heal, remember who your father was to you, and hold on to those memories. I think those are the big points.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, that's the main thing because we offer our condolences.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, we have two more emails, so I just want to get to those quickly so that we can wrap up. Um, and this is very close to the story you shared, um, um Brandon. So Sarah from Chicago said, I lost my mom. We weren't speaking for three years. I feel immense crushing guilt. How do you grieve someone when the relationship ended on a cold note? Is it possible to find peace without the having the opportunity to have said a final goodbye? So it seems like it sounds like her and her mom had quarreled or fell fell out and they stopped talking for three years, and now she heard the mom is dead, and she's feeling a lot of crushing, she says immense crushing guilt.
SPEAKER_01Yes, and that's the one thing I I could never imagine. You know, obviously I lost my mom. I want to be clear when I say young age, I was um in my early 20s, 24. Um to have to grieve is enough, is the weight of that is so huge. I knew my life would never be the same when I lost my mom. The thing that for now uh 27 years has carried me through is the relationship I had with her. Because I never had to feel any type of guilt. I knew my mom loved me and I knew I loved her. Did I want her here longer? Absolutely. I don't know if I can even express to this person, like being someone that has lost their parents. Um, and the same with my dad. I I was able to be there for him. My mom died suddenly, my dad was sick for years. So um I was able to be there and show up and make sure things were in order and good for him while he was sick. So I can't even imagine what guilt feels like when there's been some discourse in a relationship and someone passes, especially your parent, because it's like, you know, they're gone how you repair. I guess my advice would be to remember when things were good and to not let that just be something that happened, but remember that in your other relationships in life, that whatever you're going through, whatever struggle, and sometimes you know, you need space from people. It's not saying if someone, you know, is is mentally, verbally, physically abusing you, g depart separate yourself from that relationship, right? Um, not to stay there because a lot of times people say this saying, you only got one mother, you only got one father. But if that person I mean, if he's this even that dang job exactly, um is not being good to you, and you needed to separate yourself for a while, then you know, again, separate yourself from the guilt too, because you needed that break from them, and it just so happened, you know, life of them transitioned during that break. So um I don't know the full details of uh of her situation, why was it a petty argument? Was it you know some trauma? She didn't write, yeah. Yeah, that's what I'm saying. It could have been some trauma involved there, you know, uh from uh growing up.
SPEAKER_00Giving petty only because she says she's feeling guilt. Because if if if it's if it was a very dangerous situation, people will still feel guilt because they'll feel like I I should have still like tried to fix it or repair it, got it.
SPEAKER_01And I did that, and each time that person would hurt me, you know, uh type situation. So I want to be clear to those people that are listening going through that, that don't you know try to keep repairing something where you keep making yourself submissible to pain and hurt, but let it be a lesson over petty arguments, disagreement. I didn't like something you did, I didn't like something you said, that type of thing. We gotta let those things go.
SPEAKER_00We gotta let those things go. Okay. And then the last um fan mail, and then we'll go into our last segment. Um, this is can I pronounce this name? Jovan? J-O-V-A-N.
SPEAKER_01J-A-V-O-N.
SPEAKER_00No, J-O-V-A-N.
SPEAKER_01Jovan.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, Jovan in Atlanta. A close friend died. I want to honor him, but I'm terrified of posting a tribute on Instagram. I don't want people to think I'm doing it for likes. What do you think, Brandon Namvi? Should I post or is silence more respectful? Social media and death.
SPEAKER_01You should absolutely post. And it's sad that we even have to think like that now. Like, should I, you know, post a close friend or uh that type of thing? Make sure you're being respectful of that person's family or loved ones, also, because yes, it may be a friend to you, but like make sure whatever your post is, um, is just simply honoring the person and not something that people want to look at or feel like it's selfish. Like your post is selfish. So like honor and respect who that person is to their family, and just make sure your post is in alignment with that.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, I think I think you hit the nail on the head. Don't divulge personal information, don't divulge information that will make you seem like you are in the know. You understand? Because this is the time to respect the person and respect their family's wishes, if especially if they explicitly ask for privacy. But I think to the extent that you want to remind people of the best version of this person, especially the version you got to witness personally, I think it's important that we do. And like you said, very sad that we're in a world now where people have to second guess themselves because there is a real backlash you one can face if it's seen as performative.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, and before, you know, back in the day we didn't have social media, right? And these things or whatever. So uh your tribute was just simply done at that person's, you know, funeral or repass or whatever. It was done in person. Um, and it wasn't like this thing that people are gonna 15, 20 years from now see that you posted in an emotional moment that you say, like, mm-hmm, if if I was in this space, you know, now, like in a different space, I probably would have said or did this different. So be mindful of the space you're in, unless is more.
SPEAKER_00Unless is more. Okay. Alright, so our last segment, the business of death. So one of the keen observations I had when I was growing up about death was the very evident decline in economic power of the family. So I think I had said this in past episodes where I noticed when people lost, especially their father, um, because I went to private um schools a few weeks later, those kids would disappear. Um, because suddenly the economic power of that family went away, and the family relatives were like, We're not paying that amount of money for school, so they send them to public schools or less funded or less expens less expensive schools. Um there are many stories of widows being kicked out of the house, being properties taken away from them, or not having enough money or for the family to be able to pay for a proper burial and funeral, whether home or abroad, it's very expensive and all. And so I think in the last two, three years I've become more acutely aware of um estates planning and what that entails. So I know you're not the expert, I'm not the expert, but I just wanted you to touch what are some of the basics of estate planning that every black family in the United States, or in I'm in at least in the United States where things are available, should be thinking about today.
SPEAKER_01Yes, um, obviously, and then let me preface one more thing.
SPEAKER_00So, like things I I still remember Prince, it must have been Prince in my days when I used to watch Wendy Williams. So, and and he died and didn't leave a will, and it just cost a lot of fighting and all of that. And then I also remember you telling me the story of Lutovandros estates and how because it was done right and done well to this day, the people being taken care of and his legacy continues to live on. So, in in thinking about those two sort of celebrity black examples, what what do you think we should all have a starter packs for estate planning?
SPEAKER_01It's the starter pack. Yeah. Um, I was gonna say obviously it becomes more nuanced if you have more, right? Uh, so the basic at least have a life insurance policy, right? That's the basic guys.
SPEAKER_00Get a life insurance policy. The GoFundMe funerals are too much. Like get a life insurance for a dollar a day, you can get a $500,000 life insurance. That's $30 a month, right? And it's not even for the funeral, it's the easiest way to transfer wealth to the next generation.
SPEAKER_01I wouldn't like name it for that purpose because funeral people are gonna want to bury their loved ones. So you at least gotta have enough to bury. And then, like I said, the more you have, the more nuanced it becomes, right? Um, like if you're working or whatever. But if, especially in this world of disclosure, if you're struggling already, we're not, you know, a trust conversation about a trust and that type of thing doesn't work for that particular person, right? Uh the basic.
SPEAKER_00Let me push back a bit. And the reason is yes, um, this is not the black single mother struggling to blah blah blah blah blah. But there are now communities that pull funds, that pull resources. If we have three friends, four friends that say, okay, we we will pull our one dollar a day to buy one policy, you know, that will be shared in three ways. I I think there are creative ways we have to think about it because it's almost like even in Nigeria, there there is there are caders of things you can do, but at the very Very rural, rural community things. Those women there are figuring out financial packages that work for them and help them. And I'm trying to make sure we're thinking about those things.
SPEAKER_01I can understand that, but I'm not getting life insurance with three of my friends and they decide to kill me and take the money. Like, what is happening here? Women who I kill. You have husbands and wives that don't want to disclose the amount of their policy.
SPEAKER_00Murder.
SPEAKER_01Snap. Yes. They have a whole show called Snap. Women who kill.
SPEAKER_00That's a joke. We know women don't kill their husbands. Thank you.
SPEAKER_01Yes, they do. So that is the other thing I was going to say. Like, but you know, apart from that, like that's not the norm. Thank God. Um, it it is like they sell burial insurance now, you know, uh, so to make sure you have a plot, like you have a grave, or if you're gonna be cremated, like all these things are really expensive. Like, even like cremation and to have a service and all of that can run you fifteen thousand dollars. So at basic, because you told me you said at basic, have a life insurance policy, right? $100,000 life insurance policy. That's you know, that's the that's the now. If you even if it's just a car. Um as as well, because I don't want to confuse people too because we're not financial. But put it in a trust, okay. Put it in a trust. Speak to your financial advisor and see what type of trust works for you because there are different ones too.
SPEAKER_00But you want to put it in a trust so that they don't pay inheritance tax on each other.
SPEAKER_01Right, so that you don't have to um pay estate taxes as well. So put this in a trust. A will is great, right? But it can be contested. So that's why you wanna put it in a trust. So the more you have, the more you're gonna have to get creative about, you know, how that is going to be divided up. Do you have a wife? Do you have a husband? Do you have children? Are you single and have a lot?
SPEAKER_00I used married now.
SPEAKER_01And single and have a lot and need to, you know, leave that to someone. You know, are you leaving to different types of charities? So all like I said, it can, you know, get really tricky with all of that. So the basic is life insurance policy. If you own anything, a trust. Um, and then just know like that your bank accounts, everybody knows where they are, you know, how to everybody that's you know close to you or that you're leaving something to know how to access those things and where you have money, if you have a 401k, like all of those things you can leave how it needs to be divided up if it's going to more than one person.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, so so let's wrap that up. I think two things that came to me is that you said is get a life policy because that helps. Uh then depending on how much disposable income you have, you can get a more expensive or a less expensive one. So that's one. And I think the second one you said is a trust. And I think the best practice is to then use that trust as your beneficiary for everything. Yes. So that once you've divided things into trust, then for if it's a 401k, you have a bank account, whatever, whatever, if the sole beneficiary of all every other thing is the trust, then the formula for sharing just continues in that way. So that then we don't have too many documents where you're dividing things too many times.
SPEAKER_01Right, and that's why I say it can get tricky with a will, because someone can contest that and say that's not the real will, this is the real will. I have this person's signature if the person had been sick. It can get real tricky uh with all of that. And and let me be clear about the life insurance policy too, because some people think I have life insurance with my job, I'm good. No, no, I'm saying a life insurance policy that you own outside of your job, right? So that's what I'm talking about when I say get a life insurance policy that is yours that you purchased and you pay into, not that you have just because it's you know your salary times two or whatever the case may be through your job.
SPEAKER_00Okay. So um guys, I want to give you guys a challenge based on the topic we've talked about today. Two things one, update your beneficiary, whether it's the life policy or the trust, and then two, call a friend that you have been estranged with for a long time. I think at least based on our two emails that friend.
SPEAKER_01So if we can sometimes a phone call, you're like no, yeah.
SPEAKER_00Text that friend, and then if any of you do that, please write us next week, next time. We'll like to hear what that experience was like. A follow-up, but thank you to Toby, thank you to Jovon, thank you to Sarah for the um fanbuls. Fan meals are getting quite popular, Brandon. So that's really good. Yeah, yeah. Wow, this was a long episode.
SPEAKER_01Well, you know, when you're talking about life, death, and you know, reincarnation.
SPEAKER_00It gets serious, right?
SPEAKER_01Yeah, yeah, you know, but we try to keep it you know as light as possible.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, but but but I think once yeah, but I think it was a good one. Um, and so guys, we have two more episodes coming, and the next um uh one will be next week, like we said, to make up for the three weeks break, and we're going to be delivering that. So you're going to have one this Friday, uh, the usual time in the afternoon, and you have another Friday tonic next week, Friday. And I will keep the topic a special secret, but I think you're going to really enjoy it. But then for our final episode, the season finale, we just want to come and read fan mails. So it will be fan mails and branding with his infinite wisdom sharing his feedback, sharing his opinion, and me trying to push and find counterpoints. So, please, if you've been thinking about sending us fan mails, it doesn't have to be related to any topic we've discussed, it can be outside of the topics. But we would like to have at least 20 fan mails from you guys across the world, and then let's make it a real finale party. Brand, anything you want to say to the people?
SPEAKER_01Uh no, thanks for listening. You can find us on Spotify, on Apple Podcasts, Apple Podcasts, Amazon, Amazon.
SPEAKER_00Why am I sounding like those TV commercials?
SPEAKER_01I don't know. You get a car, you get a car like Oprah.
SPEAKER_00So, what's coming up this weekend for you? Any fun?
SPEAKER_01Um this weekend, yes. I will be in Atlanta. Of course. Tell us about your weekend Memorial Day weekend.
SPEAKER_00Tell us about your fabulous life.
SPEAKER_01Uh it's carnival weekend in Atlanta, so uh we'll be down there with uh family, my in-laws, uh and jump the fence. Having a great time. Um, she heard that. We're not breaking into any parties, we're paying, we have tickets. Oh my god!
SPEAKER_00Oh my god, all right, so um what would I be doing in my house resting? You know, the life of an immigrant, you know, just chill.
SPEAKER_01American holidays don't really mean anything. No, they don't, to be fair.
SPEAKER_00So you you enjoy Thanksgiving because you get to come down so yes, I and that's not negotiable, so so I'm always gonna do that. So that's really fine. Alright, so um, Brandon, I think we're done. We're done. Alright, see you guys next week. Bye. Bye.