Special: Jesus Christ Superstar

This Easter weekend Topher Mac talks about his favorite movie musical and gushes over the Norman Jewison masterpiece.  

This episode doesn’t shy away from subjects that are normally intentionally avoided by the host and pod.  Discussion of beliefs are peppered throughout mise-en-scène observations.  

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:00

Hello, hello, welcome ladies and gentlemen. My name is Toph Mack. This is Shadows That Shine. And today we have a special treat for you with a special bonus episode. We got the mountains panning across these mountains in Israel. That's the start of this movie. We are talking, of course, about Jesus Christ Superstar. Okay, Jesus Christ Superstar is a 1973 film directed by Norman Jewison, who also directed Fiddler on the Roof. Norman uh co-wrote this film with Melvin Bragg. And um it was, I mean, almost word for word, the musical version of it, the Broadway version, which was based on a cast album. Uh those lyrics were Tim Rice. Almost every single line uh in this movie is sung. So Tim Rice is responsible for almost every line in this uh movie. And the music is by Sir Andrew Lloyd Weber, uh, who you may know from Phantom of the Opera. Um this is my favorite musical. Uh movie musical. I should say movie musical. It's not my favorite musical. If you don't know this about me, I used to work on Broadway. Okay. I um I got my start doing um I got my start doing front of house work. Uh I would very quickly shifted into uh stuff behind the scenes. Um I did some acting projects uh outside of Broadway, but for the most part uh my Broadway experience was all um either front of house or uh stage hand work. Uh occasionally I met certain people and was able to you know whisper here and there ideas or discuss ideas with people. Um, you know, I had uh friends that wrote musicals, um but none of that stuff was a big deal. The the primary of my background is actually being a a force of labor in on that level. Now, outside of that level, I've done an insane amount of theater uh in my life. Um over 20, let's see, what year is it? Uh I'd say 24, 25 years of entertainment experience. Now, why does all that matter? Because today we're talking about something that definitely is the cross-section of everything that I love. Uh, it is a uh movie, of course. It is a very well-directed movie. It is shot on film. Film looks uh gorgeous on it. It does look a little dated because it was low budget at the time, but uh it's still I mean it's still nice looking, especially compared to some of the stuff that comes out today. Uh, this is a film, uh, like I said before, co-written by Andrew Lloyd uh Weber, um, who's one of the creative forces behind the musical. And the thing about Andrew Lloyd Weber is I don't like any of his uh shows, except that I loved working at Phantom of the Opera. And I uh the majestic theater where it was housed was like my uh it felt like my New York home when I lived in New York City. Uh, it's where I spent the most congruent time. And um other than the Metropolitan Opera House, it's where I spent the most time collectively. Um with uh second slash third place in that equation being at uh the Winter Garden Theater, where I suffered through Mamma Mia. Ugh. But, anyways, um I actually, even though I don't like the show Phantom of the Opera, which I should because so many of the elements of it are things I like, I liked that production of it because the people there were so talented and the sets were beautiful and the costumes were beautiful, and so I had a very special place in my heart, even though I don't so much care for the music, and I just kind of think that it could have been better. Now, I am probably completely and totally wrong about this because uh it's the longest-running Broadway show of all time, Phantom of the Opera, and at some point we will do an episode dedicated on it, and I'll get uh deeper into the weeds with that. All that to say, of all the shows that uh Andrew Lidweber has written, Jesus Christ Superstar is the only one that I walk away from and go, I love the music in this show, I love the lyrics in the show. It is a top 10 musical for me, but as a movie musical, it is probably my all-time favorite movie musical. And that's what we're gonna talk about today. The film was rated G, and as I mentioned before, it was released August 15th, 1973 by Universal Pictures. I already explained who the creative team for this was. It had a budget of approximately 3.5 million. Uh, it made $24.5 million, according to things I read on the internet that aren't from the source that I trust, but the source I trust did not have that information. And I saw it in more than one place, say about $24.5 million. So we're going with that, which means it was a very successful movie. This movie came out in the 70s at a time when um at a time when there was a lot of biblical things coming out that challenged ideas. You know, you had horror films that were playing off of religious ideas, but you also had Jesus-centric stories, especially musicals, with the two most notable being Jesus Christ Superstar and uh and Godspell. Both of them, Broadway musicals, turned into movies later on. Um and then, of course, the following decade we would get um the Scorsese uh the Scorsese film about Jesus, uh, which the title of it escapes my head. Um yep, that's where you shout it. Thank you, thank you. I appreciate it. Alright. Um, this movie was based on a Broadway show, which was based on an album. That album was released in 1970. Broadway premiere was October and this is not look, guys, I think this is interesting, okay? October 12th, 1971, at the Mark Hellinger Theatre is where they premiered. And you're like, I never heard of the Hellinger Theater. There's no Hellinger Theater. Well, actually, there is. First of all, I love that this ties into my love for cinema, and up until um the David Zaslav era, um Warner Brothers was my favorite studio, and so it adds even more like oh wow, that's kind of cool to me. This was a Warner Brothers cinema. They owned this theater originally, and then it turned into a performance space for a while, and they did some Broadway shows there. Okay, and then irony of ironies, the sh the place where Jesus Christ Superstar premiered turned into a church. It is now the Times Square Church on 51st Street. I also think it's funny that the name of the theater was Hell Injure. It was the Hell Injured Theater, and now it's still, by the way, I believe it's called the Hell Inger Theater. Uh, and now it's also a church. So I'll see you at the Hell Injured Theater. If you ever I don't know, whatever. I thought it was funny. Um, there was a Broadway revival of it that came out while I was um out in New York working on Broadway. I did not see it. Uh, it did not interest me because even though this is my favorite movie musical, I have found that live productions of of uh Superstar, because I don't feel like saying the whole title over and over again, we're just gonna call it Superstar. Uh I don't I don't care for live productions of it. I don't think I've ever like I've seen the live TV versions of it, didn't care for it. Um there's just something magical and special about this movie version. So I want us to go down and talk about some of that stuff. That's what I want to do, that's what I'm hoping to accomplish. And you're listening to Shadows That Shine, a movie podcast. I am Tophram Mack. As I said before, um, I'm coming to you as somebody. Oh, this is another important thing for me to point out as we get into this. Um, I'm publicly saying this because I think it matters because we're gonna be talking a little bit about religion, because religion is the show. Um I am agnostic. I grew up Southern Baptist. That is why some of the things I'm gonna say in here is influenced for me being extremely Southern Baptist when I was growing up. Like I was very, very into the church. Uh at one point, um, I and many around me believed that I was going to be a pastor like my grandfather before me. Um, not that I ever was uh in any of my grandfather's services that I remember, but just that I had a real connection with that world for a long time. Didn't turn out to be that way. I had a change of uh heart and belief. That stuff actually really does matter because the way that this story is told. Well, I think that it tells the story in a way that a non-believer can really vibe with. Um, it is the it is primarily telling the story through um oh, I don't have that information directly from me. I believe it's the book of Mark is the primary, you know, way that they went through it. Uh, though you do see characterizations of things that were pulled from other uh for some of the characters in this that were pulled from other books in the Bible. Um and we have we have to take a break real quick. Um, I'll be right back.

SPEAKER_01 11:27

You're listening to Shadows That Shine, a movie podcast storing Topha Mack. Here, your host, Topha Mack.

SPEAKER_00 11:42

Hello, hello. I'm back, and like John Paul Edmondson said, I'm Topher Mack. Uh thank you also. It's nice to have JP on the pod, even when he's not here, especially because this is the first special that I'm doing without John Paul. He was on my previous ones. You should give those a listen. They're fun listens. In fact, you should listen to anything that you can from old JPE, John Paul Edmondson. Um, I follow him on Instagram and you should too. Yeah, uh, I don't know what his handle is off the top of my head, because why would I be prepared as I just say it as I think about it? Okay, then. Alright, um let me hit play. I'm gonna be I have the movie playing in the background. Um, I'm not gonna do the whole movie, it's a long movie. Uh, but I did want it playing so I could be thinking about some of what I saw when I went to re-watch this. I intend I've been wanting to re-watch this for a couple of months now, but have intentionally been holding it off, knowing that I was gonna cover this, okay. And isn't it awesome? As I mentioned at the beginning of the pod, like we start with these they actually filmed in Israel, okay. When I was younger, I thought they filmed in California. I was wrong. This is really Israel. These are uh real temple sites in which some of them were modified. But what a cool way to open the film, very of its time, very uh hippie movement, very youth movement. Everyone is in their normal clothes, getting off the bus, unloading the setup to tell this story, to do this show. But you start seeing little hints of each of the people as they're doing it, as they sort of become their characters, all right. You you know, King Herod is like, I'm just gonna chill up here at the top of the bus. You got Mary Magdalene, she's like, I'm gonna make myself look pretty. You got the the the priests, the Judas, not Judas Priests, talking about the the Jewish um uh priests, they they have difficult to pronounce names, but but um I'm not even gonna try it. You know what? I did try it, but I'm not gonna try it any more than that. Anyways, they unload the truck, they bring down the cross. All right, there's a lot of uh parallels in this movie, uh, because it's telling this story and making it timeless because it's it's not only is it, hey, let's tell the story of Jesus, but they're using modern-ish clothes, they're using modern elements, they're unpacking uh spears of you know that are supposed to represent the day, but they're also unpacking, you know, machine guns, and they're doing these little hippie dances. And right now, in front of my face is the first moments where Ted Neely takes his shirt off, and you haven't been able to see him at all. He's just real small on the screen. He takes his shirt off because he's in just a moment about to become Jesus for the movie, and around them, um very uh I mean it is a religious movie, and you're having a religious moment of everybody having this little ritualistic moment of okay, let's welcome him in. I love this. The shots in this film are really interesting. The editing in this film, I mean, uh not only is the Mason scene great in terms of framing, uh Jesus, as soon as he it becomes Jesus, throwing his hands in the air, you have the sun uh as backlighting, which is actually lighting his face because you see the back of him first, but it shows him as a wow religious figure. But he's also looks like he should. He's plain, he's simple. He's not Mr. You know, six foot five, muscles, handsome as can be. He looks like a normal person. Um, you know, he's he's definitely not Hebrew, he's white as fuck, but also to the point of it's the 70s, it gives you an opportunity to have a dis uh another little discussion inside of here, uh, race being one of the things they're gonna play off of. Oh, this they they have this gorgeous shot where everything is just sort of there, staves together in the temple ruins, and everything's just sort of there. It's a great little preamble, it's a great little um starter, and then we get into Jesus in the mountain, and he's contemplating and he's setting up this idea because this is a story about Jesus that is also a story about Judas, but not just Judas as in biblical Judas, but it's kind of the representation of the agnostic. Like, I vibe the things you're teaching, Mr. J. Sorry, not Mr. J, that's my buddy Mr. J. I vibe your teachings, Jesus. But um, I got I got some questions because you know you've been saying lately that you're God, and I'm not sure about this. I'm not sure it's adding up. And that sort of narrative is is what drives this uh project through. Um, I'm a big uh Magic fan, as you found out on uh the official episode from this week when I was hanging out with RT, we both talked about our love of Pennanteller, and Pinjillette, who is a known atheist, which I think to be an atheist is even more extreme uh in belief than to be a Christian or a Muslim. Uh, very, very extreme in that belief because you're like, there's absolutely nothing, period, the end. And yeah. That's that's neither here nor there. Let's not get too deep into that. I brought it up to say Pendillette, big fan of this when he saw it. He didn't expect it. I didn't expect it when he started talking about it. Not to me, but on his podcast. Uh, he was on Penn Sunday School talking about how blown away he was in its presentation. But Penn is himself a hippie of sorts. Um, even though he's like a a right-wing hippie, uh, and not like modern MAGA right wing, but like, you know, he's just very um oh, what's that fancy word? Uh it's a good thing I'm good with words, right? I'm hosting a podcast over here uh pulling out words. Uh he's that religious uh movement that believes in small government. Or at least he was. I I don't know where he's at now on that, but he used to be very outspokenly um that. So they start getting into all this. There's gorgeous, gorgeous uh actual desert for most of this thing. Uh the only time they ever break away from the desert is uh Herod. You know? Uh they also have like temple scenes and stuff. But during this whole setup part here, one of the reasons I want to have this movie play so I could visually admire the Maison scene. Now you might be saying, What's Mace on scene? In case you don't know, in case you're watching uh listening to this pod out of order, which is okay. Pick your movies that you want to see. You don't have to watch every uh listen every week. I'd like you to, but I get it. It's a lot. It's an I'm asking for about an hour a week of your time. Ah, look at him being worshipped over there. Um so um obviously there's a little uh jump back and forth because I I had like a little brain fart, and um we're we're gonna keep going. Uh costuming choices were interesting. They they had it both modern and past. You have Roman soldiers walking on the top layer, and then just to show what this Christian movement really was, it was an underground movement. So you see them worshiping in uh caves and taverns underneath the marching soldiers. Visual language like this, brilliant. That's what I was gonna get into. I just remembered. I was gonna explain Messon Scene in case you don't know. Meson scene is um when you look at the the image on screen. Usually that's just the framing, it's the lighting, it's the costuming, it's the colors, everything together tells the story, it highlights the story. Um and then even the movement in and of itself. I uh I'm under the understanding the movement also counts into that. So blocking can matter a lot in the Maison scene. Uh, it's a French term, it was brought up in the French New Wave way back when. Uh, this is great, they do a lot of great stuff with this, you know, like um highlighting a spotlight uh onto Jesus. Like they tell the story where I'm watching it muted, and I can tell you what is happening without words. That's great visual storytelling. Norman Jewison did an incredible job. Now, uh Wyvon, uh I can't remember her last name, but Wyvon is the first name of the person who plays Mary. And she's kind of this is kind of the thing that she did was play Mary. She uh she when they released the album, they pushed her song, I Don't Know How to Love You. She sounds incredible. I mean, it's a moving song. Um and I'm currently watching her. Comfort Jesus. Close your eyes, close your eyes. Yadda yadda yadda. I don't want to get sued. So I sang it wrong. Yeah. Judas, meanwhile, looking down on this. I'm not gonna do this for the whole movie. Don't worry. That's not what this is gonna be. Um, but I am fascinated. I mean, I'm even looking at cuts here in this movie where Jesus and Judas are framed in the same area and they're going back and forth because this is there's competition happening here of ideas. Jesus, of course, having the pure idea of you know the the religion of Christianity. He, you know, I'm Son of God and and I have to fulfill my destiny. And Judas is over there questioning the hoja out of everything. Very um, very adversarial. I've read some uh things recently about this movie where they're basically saying Judas is playing kind of the devil role in it. Um, I really had wanted to bring in a pastor to talk about this. Uh, a buddy of mine um is a younger pastor, and I thought it would have been great. Uh, it didn't work out, we couldn't schedule it. Um, maybe I'll revisit this one day and talk about the religious themes with someone more qualified than me. I will say just a lot of uh I mean they deliver the message there, but they also do something that you're not used to seeing. They show Jesus as a man, they show a human Jesus in this. You don't get that very often. You're not gonna get that in the Passion of the Christ, uh, which is probably what we're gonna watch next year. Um especially with the sequel coming out. I don't know if you know that. There's a sequel coming out to Jesus Christ Superstar. Oh, that's a that's a that is a could you hear the sizzle from my dream? Oh um, here's a fun fact for you if you didn't know, they added a song into the musical because they were concerned about anti-sem uh Semitism. Usually, whenever the story is told, there tends to be anti-Semitism, uh anti-Semitic tones to the piece, because at the end of the day, the story is that Jesus, who was a Jew, was put uh condemned to death because Jewish people wanted him to die, and depending on how you frame a story like that, it can make it seem very let's just say uh people in the past have used that to fuel uh negativity towards Jewish people. This movie addressed it by adding a scene in where the two main uh people representing the church, they're the ones that are wearing all the black. Uh there they have a discussion about why it's important for this to happen. And it's not a Jesus bad killed Jesus conversation, it's uh, oh, if we don't do something, um our everybody is going to be in trouble, and so it sets up the song that is in the musical to be less harsh and less um antagonistic. So um that is a loud chair, and you know, I I wonder what you guys think of this whole thing. Like, what do you think, people listening, about telling a story? Like, I I know this. I've all I've often had trouble even getting religious people I know to watch this movie. Like they immediately are like, nope, can't watch that. It's it's blasphemous. Or it's you know, it has bad intentions, which is crazy to me because Andrew Lloyd Weber wrote it with really good intentions. He actually, uh, from what I've been able to read, doesn't like this movie because he feels like it's too um uh main uh non non uh non-religious. You know, I swear I got a better vocabulary than what I I don't know what it is about hitting record, and my vocabulary goes, bye bye. Okay, um this movie takes place in 73. I mean not takes place, this movie is released in 73, and I think it's indicative of movies of the time. First of all, a lot of movies in the 70s were tragedies, um, and one way or another, even happy endings had uh darkness to it, like this. Technically speaking, there's a happy ending to this because of you know all the religious idea behind it of we were saved from our sins because of all this, but it's still, you know, it's the death of somebody who who, even on the most um atheist uh look at it, is a person that didn't do anything wrong except try to make the world a better place. Um from a religious point of view, I mean he was the son of God, and you know, we killed him, but hey, fits into the tone because all the way up until you get to Rocky, lot of unhappy endings in a lot of the movies. Now, I am a person that believes the 70s is peak uh cinema. I think that the best movies made uh not I mean there are movies that are better in other decades, individual movies scattered throughout, but consistently speaking, the movies that came out from like 1968 to 1982, I think that's the best. Like if you put movies into decades and then gave them a plus minus of two years, I don't think it gets better in the 70s. Now, nostalgia makes me want to say the 90s, but I still think the 70s was better than 90s in a more objective way. So I'm over here being a film nerd. Um I just get passionate about this movie. This they cut it so well. The camera moves in ways that other musicals don't do. The the camera cuts in ways that other musicals don't do. Most musicals, um, if you exclude uh musicals that Fossey direct Bob Fossey directed, um, most musicals are afraid to make choices that this movie does. And I think the the cinematography adds to the story, it becomes a character in the story, even in a way that you just don't get uh with a lot of other movie musicals. Which I watch a lot of them, all right. Yeah, I do think this is Baron Wests story. Yeah, I do think that this is better than Singing in the Rain, which I wait, no, okay, wait, wait a minute. Singing in the Rain might be objectively the best musical movie, but the but I tend to be fond of counterculture. So just like how I think Sonnheim is the greatest um creator in the musical space, I I tend to lean towards like Candor and Ebb. I tend to lean towards people that aren't the perfect structure in like a classical sense. They're the people that break rules and shift rules and and manipulate the medium to tell more interesting stories. This movie does that. This movie uses the medium of film to elevate the material in a way that I just don't think that you can do live action. If I was gonna watch a live action Jesus play, I'd watch Godspell. Even though the music in this is better, Godspell is a better thing for the stage. It feels like it belongs in a theater, which is a whole nother discussion for if we ever get to that in in the movie. Uh like maybe we'll cover that down the road. Um oh, what a beautiful shot just popped up. You have all the the birds, I don't know if they're crows, but they're these birds swarming around, and it's like, oh, you know, it makes me think of uh what is it, the chickens come to roost or or whatever, and and then you cut straight into the gentleman in black who are about to have what's basically their church meeting, um lining up to talk about uh to get to the point of let's condemn Jesus to death. We have to do something about this guy, which also sets up for Palm Sunday. Now, all of these significant events from the Bible are done here, and they're all done in very interesting ways. The staging, speaking of the staging, they're doing this on modern their own modern things, like there's the ruins, and then for this production they put up uh railings, and that's how they decided to tell this part of the story, and it's more of that back and forth between modern and unmodern, the the hammering their hands that is uh very like British parliamentary sort of thing, if I'm not mistaken. I know that there are certain governments in the world that that's how you show your um that's how you you concur with what's being talked about is you you clap your hands or you you hit your hands on the surface of your desk or whatever's in front of you, and they're doing that in this. Palm Sunday's playing out. You got good A B storytelling happening here. I mean, they're doing a lot. If if someone had actually never heard of who Jesus was and they watched this movie, it would be powerful. It would be powerful. Great storytelling techniques throughout. Um, I can't believe they shot the thing in Israel. Like, I can't even imagine that nowadays for a number of reasons. Uh, I think some of it's also like in um what's now Palestine, uh, but most of it is in uh what is and was Israel. So yeah, I was saying earlier, uh Android Weber, not super big on this movie, and it wasn't until basically last decade, I think, someone did a version where he was like, Oh yeah, no, this is more in tune with me. Because he wanted something that was less antagonistic, because this film has an antagonism to it, I mean it's definitely chalk full of we have stuff to say, and like I said, I'm not gonna watch the whole movie here to get us there. Like, I I feel like I've sort of touched on this movie enough for you to get the gist of you really should go out of your way and watch this movie. But before I get going to uh I'm not leaving yet. I still have a couple things I want to talk about. Um the the um there's a scene where Jesus like tears up the the temple. My house is not uh oh I can't remember the line. See, I wish I could I wish I could be listening to the music while I'm uh watching it. Uh but he basically says, you know, you you my house is a house of prayer, and you've turned it into a den of thieves, as they trade uh war weapons on the church ground and in this temple. In the movie, this is happening. Of course, it is a direct reflection of what's in the Bible. Um, but they take it to modern because they're using like grenades and machine guns and modern prostitutes, and they're selling trinkets and mirrors and you know vanity bullshit. All right, and Jesus throws the most helicious temper tantrum, he's just ready to fuck people up. And um, you know, I I remembered that when I went, uh I lived in Paris for a little bit, and I went to the um Notre Dame. Uh, and when I was there, they were selling shit in the fucking cathedral. And like, some of it was stuff where you could almost forgive them, like, oh well, we'll sell you a candle that you can light. Alright, well, alright, I guess you gotta make money. Whatever. Alright. But then they had stuff like put you put your euro into this machine and turn a crank and it's gonna turn into a little fancy schmancy uh mutilation of currency. And you're just like, what? You know, you're you're paying like two euros to turn a little tiny coin into a keepsake, and that doesn't feel very um back when I was on the side of believing fully in Christianity, like that seems like the opposite of what you're supposed to be believing, um, and definitely against what I mean, you know, that moment comes to mind. Jesus throwing a little temper tantrum, being like, you guys have abused and misused the name of the church. It felt modern when they did this because of Vietnam. It feels modern now because there are people who like to use religion to um to make money. Um, whether that is, I and I don't care how uh you know I I tend to try not to be political, but I'm I have to be a little political here because of what this is about. And hold on, real quick. The they just had the little moment where it's like, will you die? And they do this beautiful thing where they freeze the screen with worry. Because up until then he's joyful and he's being what he needs to be, and he has that moment of worry, but it's only a moment, so they had to freeze-frame it and highlight that that real oh, we're gonna foreshadow what's about to happen. I mean, imagine watching this and not knowing for sure what's gonna happen, and just the dread that comes with a powerful shot like that, or in our case, knowing and going, oh, that's him knowing he knows what we know, nobody around him knows. Because they're all joyous and happy as can be. It's Palm Sunday. Um, speaking of uh tangents, now they're getting ready for what I think is one of the coolest um dance numbers in a movie musical ever. Um, and that's bold to say because there's a lot of stuff in the the 30s at the very beginning where they really did some interesting things. Well, this took that and built on top of it because editing became part of the dancing. The way that they edit this piece is part of the choreography. Let's show a moment of Jesus, let's show the crowd, but we're gonna do it in a rhythm. And you have uh, I think it's Peter singing to Jesus uh Christ, you know I love you. Can't you see our ways? I believe in you and God, tell us that I'm saved, and everyone is just worshiping. You got oh, by the way, beautiful women. I'm sure the men are I don't I don't know what the if the men are are beautiful or not. Someone will tell me at some point. Um they have normal human-looking people. Like I bet looking at this, maybe two of the people are real uh like professional dancers, and the rest of them are are people who can who can dance, but aren't dancers in the business sense of are you a dancer? And it adds so much to it to me. It makes everything feel raw, visceral, everything feels passionate, everyone feels like they want to be there. Everyone is giving 110% in ways that I don't see, and I feel like a lot of modern musicals get it wrong because they're all trying to be almost there's a rigidness to how they do things. This has that, it's one of the good things that came out of like the hippie movement in terms of performance because it has a raw, natural feeling, and everything. I mean, even just the shooting on film has that, which you don't have anymore in the digital space. Jesus watching these people do these very interesting dance, and in the background, the Roman guard doing their thing, but Judas is also watching this, and he's sort of like, what the f what the fuck is going on? You know, what is going on? He's he's he's baffled watching how people are. I getting back to what I was saying before, sometimes feel that way now that I'm in Judas's shoes of um of being a doubter, and I'll watch what some people do and go, I don't understand how you're acting the way that you are, because I think that the crowds don't understand the message. And um I might also not understand the message, that might be how we got where we are, in terms of me uh breaking away from this uh particular religion, but I really don't think a lot of the crowds do. As I was saying before, it's almost like people want to use religion to justify um inherited beliefs that have nothing to do with Jesus' teachings. Um I don't uh I and it's weird that that's a controversial thing to say nowadays, but you know, that's what I think. I think as an agnostic, there are wonderful teachings in the Bible that should be paid attention to. And I think that the people who actually uh claim to believe in the Bible are often not um not letting those teachings uh in, and they're not following them and they're not uh taking them as law. And I I think that's watching a movie like this brings that stuff to the forefront. I mean you have people justifying war and and claiming that God has anything to do with uh a justified war, and right here you have a whole movie about I mean, we just got done again, movie plan, just got done with Simon, by the way, is the one singing the song, and uh he's like, dude, Simon, you're over here telling me to go to war. I'm Jesus, like that's not it. You don't get it. We we're gonna win this with love, not with hate. You know, we're not gonna fight these people down. I it's it's a fascinating viewpoint, a fascinating philosophy. Um and it means so much uh to believers, but to non-believers, like don't sleep on these stories. Like there are stories in the Bible that like there's so much humanity inside of for you to contemplate. Is a movie musical that does that wonderfully. It puts you in the shoes, it humanizes uh not just the people but the movement, and not just the movement of Christianity, but the movements of the 70s, because you're coming off the the era of free love, and you're coming off the era of I mean, they're hippies, and we're at the tail end of that movement. And I, you know, I think I've said about everything that uh for now needs to be said about it. Um I appreciate each and every one of you guys uh giving us a listen. Um Jesus Christ Superstar. It's a 1973 film by uh Norman Jewison. Jewison being a very interesting name. Uh oh hey, he was in the shining. Uh the guy who plays uh Pontius Pilate, I believe is his name, uh, is also in The Shining. And rumor has it, Kubrick picked him because he was Pontius, that it was an interesting like little thing to put in there. And uh well, there's a lot of little uh neat things like that inside of this film. I did not list them out. Uh I selfishly watched the film because it's a good film. I frequently listen to the soundtrack or the album that the film is based on, actually, uh, and love it. Just love it. It's the best thing Andrew Lloyd Weber ever did. It's one of the best things Tim Rice ever did. By the way, Tim Rice has written lyrics for a lot of Disney stuff. So if you're of a certain age, mine, and you grew up in the Disney Golden Age, then you have uh loved and appreciated some of Tim Rice's work. Of course, he did the lyrics for this, the story for this, the book of the musical. And uh yeah, man, like this is uh something for you to check out. Speaking of checking out, every Wednesday, Shadows That Shine, a movie podcast, is what you're gonna want to uh give a listen to. Uh, we're not entirely sure what Wednesday's episodes are gonna be yet. I got some uh I got something in the can. It could be that I might do something new. We're gonna see how the weekend goes. Um, of course, uh this is coming out on Easter Sunday. I'm recording on Saturday. I watched the movie on Good Friday. Um it's a good way to do it Easter weekend, right? Oh, oh JC. It's such a funny scene. I'm trying to go, but they're doing the scene in the temple that I was just talking about, and so you got like drug dealers, and like it's such a weird mix of old and new, and like yeah, fascinating. Um well, I appreciate your uh time and attention. Uh, if you are not subscribed to our Instagram at Shadows That Shine. Uh, we also have Facebook. Please reach out. Let us know what you think of these episodes. Let us know if there's something you want us to talk about. Uh if there's some annoying habit that's driving you nuts, let me know about it. Maybe I could uh get rid of that habit. I don't know. Maybe not, but I could at least make the effort if you let me know. Um I really appreciate each and every one of you. And uh here's to New Beginnings, because it's Easter, rebirth, right? Yeah, isn't that how that works? In that sorta, maybe a little bit. I don't know. I'm Tophramack. And I'm prolonging my goodbye. Oh it's like the end of the Irishman, it just won't end, will it? It's gonna end now. Thank you, ladies and gentlemen. Uh I'll see you all right. You know, we'll interact down the road, hopefully. Bye.