Mary Faith: Finding A Voice Through Art Therapy

What happens when words aren’t enough to express trauma? For survivors at Hope Center Indy, art becomes the language of healing. Mary Faith, Hope Center’s Art Therapist since 2019, works individually with residents, helping them process pain through creative expression long before words can be found.
Mary shares one of her most powerful projects: residents draw a silhouette of themselves, then separate the negative words spoken over them from the loving words God speaks over their identity. It’s a visual, tangible moment of reclaiming truth.
In this conversation, Mary opens up about her journey to Hope Center and why art therapy is essential for trauma recovery. It’s about helping survivors find their voice when it may be hard to find, and watching beauty emerge from brokenness.
Learn more: hopecenterindy.org
Support Hope Center: hopecenterindy.org/donate

Transcript

SPEAKER_03 0:03

What happens when words aren't enough to express trauma? For survivors at Hope Center Indy, art becomes the language of healing. Mary Faith, Hope Center's art therapist since 2019, works individually with residents, helping them process pain through creative expression long before words can be found. Mary shares one of her most powerful projects. Residents draw a silhouette of themselves, then separate the negative words spoken over them from the loving words God speaks over their identity. It's a visual, tangible moment of reclaiming truth. In this conversation, Mary Faith opens up about her journey to Hope Center and why art therapy is essential for trauma recovery. It's about helping survivors find their voice when it may be hard for them to find, and watching beauty emerge from brokenness. Today I'm joined with Mary Faith, registered art therapist here at the Hope Center Indy. So delighted, excited to talk with you. I've heard your name, as I mentioned, uh from multiple people, just sharing all the wonderful things that you're able to do here. So thank you for being with us today.

SPEAKER_00 1:18

It's my pleasure. Thank you.

SPEAKER_03 1:20

And thank you for the work that you do. Okay. That's my honor. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:25

It's totally an honor that I get to do what I do here.

SPEAKER_03 1:28

Yes. Now you've been here since 2019?

SPEAKER_00 1:32

Yes. Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_03 1:33

Yeah, that's six years? Yeah. Over six years.

SPEAKER_00 1:37

It doesn't seem like it either. But yeah, it was the fall of 2019.

SPEAKER_01 1:41

Yes.

SPEAKER_03 1:42

So you came into the Hope Center with the role as a registered art therapist.

SPEAKER_00 1:47

Mm-hmm. Well, I was the art therapist when I came in and I got my registered shortly after. So that took more time because you have to work with the sponsor to get that.

SPEAKER_03 1:57

Aaron Powell We talked for about 10 minutes before we pushed record and I wish I wish we had recorded some of that. So we'll we'll try to make sure that we are able to engage. But I mean the one thing from the get-go is just your passion and excitement for what you do here. So won't you share a little bit about your role and the areas that God uses you do some great good here?

SPEAKER_00 2:20

Yeah. Okay. So as a registered art therapist, I do art therapy, but it's also a form of counseling. So I become more or less the safe person that they can talk to. We use art materials as a way to help them find coping mechanisms processing their trauma. It gives them a voice that they don't have to speak by creating images, paintings, drawings, collages, just all kinds of media. But it becomes their voice to portray their story and to discover their story or to share with me some of their story and their trauma and things that they've gone through, what they're going through now, is such a blessing because creativity comes from God. God is creative. You know, He spoke in dreams and visions, He spoke in imagery. So it's taking everything that God has already done and using it for His glory to help these women discover his hope, to discover it's okay. These feelings and emotions you have, it's okay. Let's surrender them now. So every time something comes up, I get the honor of taking them to the feet of Jesus and saying, okay, I can't deal with this. I need your help. And to invite the Holy Spirit in to do that healing. So what I get to do is give them the tools to help them find the coping mechanisms, the tools to process things, to discover things, to go through feelings and emotions and experiences that they have shoved away for years.

SPEAKER_01 4:01

Oh yeah.

SPEAKER_00 4:02

And it comes up. And as it comes up, here we go. We give it right to Jesus. So I get to pray with them and cry with them and hold them sometimes. Sometimes they just want me to sit there and not say anything. So sometimes I sit in silence with them while they're working on a project. Or sometimes, and I've enough experience this, they sit there and do nothing. And they just want somebody to sit with them and say, I see you. I see you. And it's okay. And God sees you, and it's okay. We can sit in silence. And so it it takes on many forms, many, many forms, but it does become their safe place, their safe place to express, their safe place to explore, their safe place to just be. And as they progress in their program, they go through other therapies, other counselings, and it can be heavy. And they're diving, they're doing deep dives into things. And then you come back to the hope center, and it's like, whoa, okay, you know, and now I have all this. But we've already established that I can be your safe person and I can help you process those things. So now I use the skills I learned in grad school, the art therapy skills of okay, now that you're you're in this heightened emotion and all these feelings are coming up. So if I use certain art materials, I can help you with that. And we can bring those emotions back down. And we can do art directives to help you process those emotions. So art therapy is a very, very beautiful thing. But I can tell you this, that some of the things that I learned in grad school, the techniques I learned in grad school, I can have a plan, but I better be open to what God wants to do. You know.

SPEAKER_03 5:56

Well, that's a great point. That's part of what we were talking about before we pushed record, just being the vessel and and allowing God to do the work.

SPEAKER_00 6:06

Yeah, because I I can't fix them. I can't, I cannot heal them.

SPEAKER_03 6:10

So that's an important message, isn't it?

SPEAKER_00 6:13

It it is. And uh I mean, like, you know, I have counselors myself, you know, so of course I have to have my own counselor or my own therapist. But I I go into that knowing, okay, they can't fix me. They're my sounding board, they can't fix me. You know, they can give me tools to use, but it's ultimately it's it's God who's going to fix me. And that's the same thing, you know, that I go with the ladies. And sometimes I have to tell them, honey, I can't fix you.

SPEAKER_01 6:42

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 6:42

If I could, I would. If I could reach in and take this all away, I I would, but I can take you to the person who can. So we, you know, we usually if we don't start with a prayer, it it'll it'll come somewhere, you know, in the session.

SPEAKER_01 6:58

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 6:59

Because it is, it's it's God that fixes them. I just give them the tools.

SPEAKER_01 7:03

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 7:03

I just become the safe place. I just become the vessel that God uses in that moment in their journey. It's all Him. Yeah. It's I'm fully surrendered. He took, I figured this much. If if God, you are gonna take me through grad school and I got my master's in art therapy and counseling, I dual majored in that. If you're gonna take me through grad school, then you got this. Everything I learned in grad school is yours. So, and and that's what he's done. Because I came in here, it's like, nope, we're gonna do this, we're gonna do this, we're gonna do this. And God's like, Yeah, sure. Okay, you know, why don't you just surrender it to me and it'll go much easier for you. So yeah, I just I can I can do directives. I have plans and things like that. But I'm like, we'll see what God chooses to do.

SPEAKER_01 7:54

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 7:54

And nine out of ten, God takes me down something else. You know, He'll take this lady's like, oh yeah, okay, she's dealing with that. She needs to work with this material or that material, let's see where she's at.

SPEAKER_03 8:06

Yeah. Because otherwise it's very limited on the individual.

SPEAKER_00 8:10

Very, yeah, yeah. So I come in here and I don't know what I'm gonna face. I have no clue. Because they are in IOPs and things like that, and there's other therapies and counts things that they do. Thank you, Jesus. So when I come in, it's like a lot has happened between the last time I saw you and where you are now. So it's that's why when I on my way here, I I pray. It's like, God, let me partner with you in this. I don't just need you to give me what you already told me that you've provided for me. I have to receive it. But I need to do this with you because this whole place, this whole entire place belongs to you. It's this art room, every single art material, it's not mine, it's yours. You provided it. You use it. All the education that you provided me with, you use it. You bring up what I need in that moment, in that second. You take take take the reins. Just do it. I surrender every single aspect of myself, my past, my present, my future. It's yours. It's yours. Do with it what you want with with what you need.

SPEAKER_03 9:27

Yeah, that is beautiful and so important for each of us to think about and to apply to our own lives, regardless of whether we're in art therapy, whether we're in social work, wherever that may be. That's that's an important message for each of us.

SPEAKER_00 9:43

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 9:43

What brought you to the Hope Center? How was that connection made?

SPEAKER_00 9:47

Okay, that's a story. I'll try to condense it for you. So when I was in my last year of grad school, I already knew through prayer, this God was telling me, I already have the place for you, don't worry about it. And I was like, what? He's like, I already have the place, don't, don't, don't worry about it. So I was like, okay, God. And so I was finishing up. We had to move to Cleveland, Ohio for living situations and stuff. So I wound up doing my internship and practicum in Cleveland, Ohio at Cleveland Clinic Hospital, University Hospital, which I had a ball, learned so much there. And medical art therapy was my thing. That's what I was gonna do. I had my plans. And then God brought us back to Indianapolis. My husband's coworker went to Pastor Hubert's church where he was, you know, right down there on Brookville Road. And he was like, you know, they got this hope center going there, working with human trafficking victims. You'd be good at that. And I was like, What? You know, no, no, no, no. I thought, yeah, sure. Okay. And my husband was like, oh, yeah, we should go buy the place. I'm like, Michael, no, I got things lined up. I'm doing internships at Simon Cancer Center now. I love my supervisor, everything is good. I'm gonna graduate and go do medical art therapy and everything else. And Mike, my husband was like, no, I really think we should go drive through there. And so we got in our Jeep, drove through here, and I was just like, oh, huh, it's interesting, it was intriguing, you know. But I just didn't see myself working with this population. I'm like, and this is like some intense trauma, you know. And I did some trauma in grad school and everything, but I'm like, oh, this is way out of my league. God, you got the wrong person. And my husband's like, oh, you know, they do tours, we should try to do a tour. So he went inside and I tried to get a hold of Pastor Hubert. And this was like 2018, okay. And couldn't get a hold of anybody, couldn't find him. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. Tried this number, tried that number, couldn't get a hold of him. So I finished up grad school. And it was so crazy. My husband was at work, and we really needed the income at that time. And they sent him home. And I was like, what are you talking about? We, you know, you need to work. So there was this little church that was legit right across the street from where we were living, and I was madder than horn. I'm like, fine, we're just gonna go to church. We went to church, and I was so upset. I walked in, didn't even notice Hubert, went to the back pew, sat down. I was just fuming. And right there's Hubert right in front, walks up to the stage. I'm just my mouth fell open. Michael looked at me and grinned, like, uh-huh. I'm like, you've gotta be kidding me. And this whole time frame in between when that seed was first planted, about oh, you should think about that place, you should work there. So that whole year, it was just like, you're right, I need to do something there, but I can't get a hold of nobody. And yeah, there he was right in front. I went up there, grabbed his hand, shook his hand. I've been trying to get a hold of you. I want to come and do some art therapy. And he just he just looked at me like almost in shock. And I'm like, I've been trying to get a hold of you, really. And he then he says something about well, we need to find somebody who's gonna be consistent. And I totally got that, you know, because when you're working with this population, they do, they need consistency. And I was gonna say, I understand, I just want to be there. And he gave me his card. And I remember sitting there and I was like, oh my gosh, he gave me his card, you know. So I I called and I was like, When can we do this? And he hooked me up with Joyce. And at that time there was a lady, Gail, who worked here, and oh my goodness, with this the sweetest woman, I met with Gail, and then I met with Joyce, and it was just this instant connection. And it was just like, oh wow, I really am. I mean, God orchestrated everything from legit even sending my husband home from work to putting me in front of Pastor Hubert. And it was just like, okay.

SPEAKER_03 14:28

What I think is so funny and relatable in so many different ways is you went from fuming to ecstatic in T minus however many minutes.

SPEAKER_00 14:35

Yeah, yeah, it was so crazy. I mean, like that within that whole year, it was just like, yeah, you need to do that. We took the tour and it was just like, oh, I love this place. I don't know. There's like some some crazy peace that I felt. And it was just like, yeah, my me and my husband, we just kept looking at each other like, oh yeah, oh yeah. I don't know how this is gonna pan out, but yeah. And now I don't want to go nowhere else. I don't want to do anything else. I went from the first day I walked in here, my knees knocking, and I was like, oh, what did I get myself into?

SPEAKER_02 15:16

But I had this love, and to now it's just like this is all I want to do.

SPEAKER_00 15:24

I don't I don't want to do nothing else. And I've had other job opportunities, and people is like, well, you can come here, we can go there. No. No. I mm-mm, no, I don't want to go nowhere else.

SPEAKER_03 15:39

Well, you mentioned when we were talking beforehand the importance of learning over the years of of really surrendering and being that vessel. And within itself, it seems as if that is part of the process of what you do to help the residents that you serve, right?

SPEAKER_00 15:59

Yeah. Yeah. It's I come you have to be completely sold out. You do, because it's not my strength that I do this on. I do think that the ladies pick that up. You know, they they see that.

SPEAKER_03 16:13

Well, I I picked it up in our conversation. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 16:16

It's it's just like and and and that's one of the things I I tried to reinforce to the ladies, you can't go through this healing process yourself. You have to submit and surrender this to Jesus. And that's the same thing I have to do here. If I start doing this on my own, come up with my own little directives and know how, you know, this is what we're gonna do today. You know, we're gonna follow the sequence that, you know, I think needs to happen. We're gonna follow this, we're gonna follow that. No. No, I'm not, I'm not doing the ladies the service. You know, I need to meet them where they're at, which is the same thing that Jesus does to us.

SPEAKER_03 16:54

Yes.

SPEAKER_00 16:54

He mess, he meets us where we're at. So, you know, it's it's that submit and surrender of everything, you know, and it does, it trickles down to the ladies. You're reminding them that, yeah, partner with Jesus in this. You know, the load gets lighter if you start relying on somebody. And I understand that trust takes a long time. You know, and a lot of a lot of the ladies who come in here, their father image that they had as little children is so broken. It's so opposite of what the father's love is. So by submitting and surrendering to what God wants to happen, I get to show them that love. I'm not judging you, I'm not condemning you. I love you just as you are right now. And we can do this one breath at a time, one step at a time. There's no hurry, there's no shove, there's no push. It's okay to be who you are in this moment, and you're loved, and you're seen, and you're heard, and is you know, and God validates you where you're at. And it's okay. He made you perfectly beautiful.

SPEAKER_03 18:14

Walk us through a process of how someone is introduced to this therapy.

SPEAKER_00 18:20

So, you know, they plan, you know, the staff plans the time of when I start to meet them. And the first time they come in the room, it can be a little unnerving, especially if you get somebody who has already come to the conclusion I can't create anything. I can't draw a stick figure, you know. And they come in and they see all these papers and paints and pencils and markers and this great big blue table that's full of projects and everything.

SPEAKER_03 18:46

You could be a little intimidated.

SPEAKER_00 18:47

Oh, yeah. It's like, I can't do that, I can't do that. And I have to remind them, it's not about the end product. This is all about the process. It's okay. So I hear that all the time. I can I can't even really do stick figures. Honey, we'll do stick figures together. It's okay. You know, it's it's really okay. So they come in and it's it's a meet and greet. And sometimes that can take the first two to three sessions because the trust is so, so low. So it's finding where are they comfortable at, you know, what strikes a fancy. You know, I'll show them different projects, you know, different examples. Sometimes it's a joint scribble drawing is a beautiful icebreaker. We both scribble on paper together and then we find pictures in the scribble, and we call the pictures in, and we just say, oh yeah, wow, look, look what I found. So sometimes that's that's a wonderful icebreaker. And it just them get to know me. I don't, I never approach them with pad and paper. Oh my goodness gracious. No, no, no, no, no, no, no. If I approach them with pad and paper, it immediately shifts from I'm gonna trust you. Oh, now you're taking information. Okay. So put the pad and paper away. That's one big thing that I've learned. Put the pad and paper away, at least until they get to know you. And when they start deep diving, then I have to reassure them these are my notes. It's only so I can follow the train and everything. And sometimes I'll I'll show them exactly what I'm writing. It's just just so I can follow along. But we we we find a project where are they comfortable at, sometimes collaging. Okay, fine, let's do some collaging. And I'll work that into directives. It's like, okay, and maybe we can work on a vision board or take simple playing cards. And we take simple playing cards and we'll collage over them and find some other strong suits with some good characteristics about yourself. You're already, because they're already focusing on the negative. Everything's negative and negative. So now we're gonna focus on some positive things. As they progress and the directives change, uh, splatter painting is a good one. You want to release a little tension? Let's go through some paint. Breaking dishes. Oh my goodness. It works beautifully. Got a hammer, some box.

SPEAKER_03 21:12

Like really breaking dishes. Oh, yes. Yes, yes.

SPEAKER_00 21:15

And we take their broken pieces and we can create mosaics with them.

SPEAKER_01 21:19

Whoa.

SPEAKER_00 21:20

So the dishes become all the things that they are just angry at. And I got this nice big box, and you layer it with some cardboard, and I got a hammer, and they got safety goggles on, and all of, you know, so everything is safe. And they just go to town and just whacking all these, yeah. So they can create mosaics out of those pieces. So that has to be done, you know, very cautiously and carefully. And it depends on the person that I'm I'm dealing with. And another one to release a lot of stuff is shredding paper. We will shred paper and that. Ripping sound and that shredding sound. It's a beautiful thing. It can be a beautiful thing in there. And then we create projects out of that. Actually, if anybody takes a tour, one of the projects is in the hallway where she uh took the balloons and covered the balloons with paper mache with the paper that she shredded and then took shut some of the shredded pieces and wrote down her trauma and stuck it on one of the paper macheed balloons. So it's a very, very powerful piece that she did where she took she did one before and then one now that shows her healing process. So it's it's a beautiful thing of all of my ick, all of the ugly stuff, and I created something beautiful out of it. And it became her voice. And yeah, so it's in the hallway.

SPEAKER_03 22:54

Well I can't help but think about the process of the first time you are introduced and what you're able to see over a course of time. What are the outcomes that you see on such a regular basis of what transpires, what changes in the lives of the residents I would have to say their self-perception.

SPEAKER_00 23:17

The most beautiful thing that I love to see is when they realize God really loves them, that Jesus really loves them, and that God is a good father. And he never left them. Even in the middle of their trauma, God was there. Even when you didn't feel like he was there, God was there. His eyes were always on you. And it's it's realizing how loved they are, it's them developing that relationship with Jesus. And some of the ladies have been to church and they have religion down path. I'm like, honey, this is not religion. This is relationship. This is where you get to know him. You get that yada love where you know him. And that's profound. And when they start to get that, things start to change. And it all goes back to that trust. So seeing them starting to open up, starting to accept what he said, starting to see yourself as God sees you. How does God really see you? And the other projects that help that is that silhouette. Do you have seen up there?

SPEAKER_03 24:41

Yeah, I saw it on a recent uh tour that I took.

SPEAKER_00 24:44

Those are one of the most pivotal projects that they do.

SPEAKER_03 24:48

Oh, I bet.

SPEAKER_00 24:49

And we're and it it takes about a month, sometimes two months to do one because it takes time because I don't want to flood them, you know, with everything. So they write down all their trauma, like all all the negative things that was spoken over them. And it goes through their trauma, you know. So like each thing is gonna have most likely, I shouldn't say will have, but most likely have a snippet of a scene. You know, this is where I heard this a lot at. So I don't want to flood them. So they go through this at their pace, you know, but usually kind of slow. And they write down all these negative things that was said to them. And then we take that list, and we're gonna go and find the polar opposite of each one of those. What does God say about you? Are you really that?

SPEAKER_03 25:36

What are some of the common or examples of words that are said?

SPEAKER_00 25:40

Oh I think up there a lot, some of the things are blurted out.

SPEAKER_01 25:46

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 25:46

Because I mean, they're not nice words. A lot of them, a lot of them are called whores, bad mother, untrustworthy. Just there's a whole list of, and it it really can get graphic and everything. And they're afraid to put those down. I'm like, but is that one that's prominent in your head? Is that something that you hear over and over and over? And they're like, yes, I said put it down. Yeah. It's okay.

SPEAKER_03 26:15

Vulgar or not, put it down.

SPEAKER_00 26:16

Put it down. Get it out. I don't want see the enemy loves when we hide secrets down inside of us. Okay. And that becomes this little toy box. Okay. So I want to know. We're we're gonna let the Holy Spirit dump that out. And we're gonna pray over this. So they list them and we're gonna go. Now, does the Bible say that about you? Does God say that about you? And they just look at me sometimes like a deer in headlights. I'm like, okay, do you believe that God is real? And they said, Yes. I said, Do you believe that everything in this Bible is true?

SPEAKER_02 26:52

Yes. Okay, let's go see what it says.

SPEAKER_00 26:56

And that's where the rubber hits the road. And so we will find Bible verses to counter each and every single lie that was spoken over them. And for every single lie, we surrender that to Jesus. And we will have prayers that can go such as, Father, I am sorry I believe that lie that was spoken over me. I am accepting your truth that you say I am your daughter, that you say I am made in your image, that you say that you delight and sing over me. So we will counter every single one and then we put that on that silhouette, this little tracing of their site profile. It's them.

SPEAKER_03 27:51

Yeah, and welcoming so many people, you've got to come through a tour of the Hope Sitter and be able to see there's an entire hall.

SPEAKER_00 27:59

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 27:59

And I'm sure there's more outside of that.

SPEAKER_00 28:01

Yeah, we've adopted the hall.

SPEAKER_03 28:03

Yeah. Well, it's it's powerful.

SPEAKER_00 28:05

Yeah. Well, it's powerful for them to display their stuff because that's people, everybody has to understand that is their voice. They are sharing each and every single painting, each and every single collage, mixed media, whatever it is, sculpture that's up there, even every piece of jewelry is a piece of them. They're expressing themselves. That's their voice that they're putting up there. And they want to do that. That's a willing thing on their choice. They're never made, never forced. That's them. They're putting a piece of themselves up there. That's their voice. And that is powerful to them.

SPEAKER_03 28:46

Yeah. The second piece that they work on is in the contrast after working through at what time place typically takes, you know, from the first silhouette to the second silhouette.

SPEAKER_00 28:58

Well, it's it's one silhouette that goes over, it takes about sometimes a month. I've I've had a lady literally take three months to do one silhouette. Yeah. Because it's it's it's that it can go that deep.

SPEAKER_03 29:13

But what's on the inside and then what's on the outside. Yes. That's that's the two different parables. And you start with the outside.

SPEAKER_00 29:20

The outside is all the lies that was spoken about.

SPEAKER_03 29:23

Yes.

SPEAKER_00 29:24

But the inside that makes up their identity is all the Bible verses of all the truth that God says about them.

SPEAKER_03 29:31

That is beautiful.

SPEAKER_00 29:32

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 29:33

I could see how that could be so helpful.

SPEAKER_00 29:35

So that reframes their whole perception of themselves.

SPEAKER_03 29:39

Aaron Ross Powell It was they that were able to release and let go. You guided them along.

SPEAKER_00 29:46

And that's my honor. Yeah. That is so my honor.

SPEAKER_03 29:50

Yeah. Being the vessels to allow God to just work through us is so important, isn't it?

SPEAKER_00 29:56

Aaron Ross Powell, yes, it is. And the sad fact is that there's just not enough people to say yes. That's all God wants. That passage that talks about how the harvest is so plentiful, but the labors are so few. When you sell out and you go into something not to make a buck, not to make a dollar, not to have a big title, not to go, oh, but look at me, look at me, and this is what I do. This is not about me. This is about the lost sheep. This is about building, you know, make let's let's go make heaven crowded.

SPEAKER_01 30:40

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 30:41

Okay. Let's go bring the sheep back to the Father. Let's go help him do that. Let's go love them. Where love has been so twisted and perverted and distorted. Just love them. Just sell yourself out and go do it. And realize this is not about you. This is about this is about furthering the kingdom. This is about partnering with Jesus. Be his partner. Say, hey, let me partner with you today. What is it you want me to do? Just say yes. That's all he wants. Yes, I'll do it. What do you want me to do today? Yes, I'll do it. You know, if if it's taking meals to a homeless person, or if it's, you know, volunteering someplace where a lot of people don't really want to volunteer. Okay? Say yes. That's all that's all he wants. I it's so it's so sad when I I see so many, you know, in the profession that I do, it's like it's it's not about you. No. It's it's just not. I've never been happier. I'm actually, don't get me wrong, I I love medical art therapy. I think it's wonderful. I had I really I had so much fun doing that. But my soul is happy here.

SPEAKER_02 32:07

And that surpasses everything that that you can't buy that. You just can't.

SPEAKER_03 32:18

Well, it shows and it's inspiring, and that's part of the purpose, isn't it?

SPEAKER_00 32:23

It's incredible when you realize how Jesus knows what's gonna make you more happy than what you think will make you happy.

SPEAKER_03 32:30

Yeah. That's where joy comes in. Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 32:34

Yeah. Yeah, exactly.

SPEAKER_03 32:36

Well, Mary Faye, thank you so much for sitting down. I really enjoyed getting to know you and and learning. I want to continue learning about your mission and and on watching the beautiful things that each of us here at the Hope Center do. But it's all for him.

SPEAKER_00 32:52

It is completely all for him. And I had a wonderful time, of course.

SPEAKER_03 32:57

Yeah. Well, thank you.

SPEAKER_00 32:59

Thank you.