Love, Ghosts, and Dark Academia | My Darling Dreadful Thing Part 1 Deep Dive

⚠️ SPOILER & CONTENT WARNING: Full spoilers for My Darling Dreadful Thing (Part 1). Discussion covers grief and psychological tension.

Devotion can be a dangerous thing. We’re starting our deep dive into Monika Kim’s gothic masterpiece. We break down the relationship between Roos and her spirit, Ruth, and the moment her life changes forever upon meeting Agnes.

Timestamps:

00:00:29:22| Welcome & The Midnight Draw (Tarot)
00:08:00:11| Midnight Updates
00:18:57:02| The Exploitation of Roos & Ruth
00:37:55:18| Agnes, Thomas, & The Great Escape
01:39:07:05| The Psychiatrist’s Notes
01:51:37:22| The Collectives Closing

✨ A NOTE ON OUR STORYTELLING: To enhance the atmospheric experience of the Cozy Midnight Collective, we occasionally incorporate AI-generated audio clips and visual elements to help bring these hauntings to life.

Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:00

Welcome back to Cozy Midnight Collective. I'm Lauren. And I'm Morgan. We're gonna do it again, you guys. So we have our tarot cards out. I pre-shuffled so you didn't have to like witness that twice. And I'm just gonna pull two cards for myself and have Lauren read them like we did on yesterday's episode. But we're filming ahead of time because as you're watching this, I am traveling in Europe for my wedding.

SPEAKER_02 0:34

So hopefully by the time this comes out, this would be like our third time doing this.

SPEAKER_01 0:39

Yeah.

unknown 0:40

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 0:41

Or fourth.

SPEAKER_01 0:42

Third or fourth. Because like, yeah, we have quite yeah. We have a couple other episodes to do. So and hopefully a midnight confession. Hopefully. If we can pull stories out of our ass. But I have a feeling they're gonna start rolling in soon. Like now that we're picking up speed on YouTube and Instagram. Come on over to Patreon, you guys. Like it's our cozy little coven. Um, but anyways, yeah, so if you're new to this, I got this um tarot deck from Morbid. Um Ashley and Elena love you guys. Buy their merch, watch their podcast. They are co-sponsors of us. But if you wanna be, fucking love you. And let's uncover some magic. We're gonna just do this at the start of each episode. It's something so when we flip it, it's like as if so for me. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, just a little bit of magic and hopefully positive metaphors for our future. Yeah. Yeah. Goodbye. Yeah. Okay, so it's upside down.

SPEAKER_02 1:47

And then this one looks like it'd be right side up.

SPEAKER_01 1:50

Yes.

SPEAKER_02 1:50

Okay, so we got nine of swords and and the lovers. The lovers. Okay. Uh-oh.

SPEAKER_01 2:01

What does that mean? Better be good. Because our wedding's coming up. We're already married. We've been married for two years.

SPEAKER_02 2:12

So nine of swords is upright. Anxiety or worry is heightened. Recognize fears and address them. She did a pretty good job of that. I'm trying. Okay, cool. No, that's good. That's good. And then the lovers upside down.

SPEAKER_00 2:28

I don't know if you guys can see that you guys are so beautiful. It's like a dark moth green and gold.

SPEAKER_02 2:39

So the lovers upside down, you are at a tipping point in your relationship. You may be facing the point at which initial obsession or attraction fades and reality sets in. There might be a breakdown in communication or misalignment in values.

SPEAKER_01 2:53

Oh my god, we've like been there and done that, I feel like. Yeah, I mean, well, we've been together six and a half years. We have four children and one died, and we survived that and a whole career shift. But you know what? This could, I don't know, I think you can take tarot as like past, present, or future. So I mean, every day is a new day, and we're always trying to be better people than we were the last including husband and wife and besties. So I hope that we don't have any issues in the future.

SPEAKER_00 3:33

I love you.

SPEAKER_02 3:35

I mean you're drunk. Yeah, no. I I think things are pretty solid, I'd say. I think there's thank you. I love that between the two of you.

SPEAKER_01 3:47

Alright. As he sits I'll edit this out. As he sits on his throne and watches Batman Batman.

SPEAKER_02 3:54

The Dark Knight rises.

SPEAKER_01 3:56

Yeah, we just heard beautiful Heath Ledger. He's Lauren was like immediate morbid thought. He was my doll.

SPEAKER_02 4:09

Yeah, he's 28. I'm 28. And I'm like, dude, he seemed way older. I know. I think it's like he's an old soul. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 4:17

Yeah. And I also think he just got broke down by Hollywood.

SPEAKER_05 4:23

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 4:24

And now that we understand, excuse me, we do not understand, but we are beginning to try to understand all of the shit that is going on behind the scenes of the world. Like it's not just sick weird Hollywood people, sick weird Illuminati, sick weird govern. Like it's fucking everywhere. All the time. Little people to big people. The people in power, the real power, we'll never even know their name. We don't know what they look like. They are so powerful, they leave no trail. They have no social media. I'm like super conspiracy theory. And we're finding out that they're not conspiracies anymore, you know? Okay, so you got the upside down Five of Pentacles. Five of Pentacles. And then the right side up Nine of Wands. Okay, and that was upside down, right? Okay. Ready for it? Yep. Isolation or missed opportunities may occur. Reach out for assistance and guidance. Uh-huh. He's trying to play. But he'll fucking get you. You are close to your goal. Protect your boundaries and gather your remaining strength. Persistence will pay off. I love that. Yeah, I love that too. He's true. He wants to play. He's the only cat that I've ever seen in my entire I know. He terrifies you, but he's so gentle. But like he's terrifying.

SPEAKER_02 6:11

But he's I love him to death. I know. I'm like, dude, don't scratch me. I've seen what you can do, and I'm scared. I'm scared.

SPEAKER_01 6:19

He's the only cat I've ever seen in my entire life that will literally pick up balls, toys. He will drag them from like his play area all the way downstairs making noise. And then he'll bring it to you and drop it at your foot like a dog would do, and be like, and I'm like, I played with him for an hour the other night in the in the playroom. And then first thing in the morning, he was like attacking for it. Like, and I'm Glenn's like, well, go feed him. And I'm like, no, I fed him. And he's like, oh, he wants to play. And I was like, bro, the last thing I did with you was like, I try to wear your ass out for an entire hour. I probably got more exercise than he did. We'll need to get another cat for him to play with because he just like wants a friend. Yeah. And we try our best, but you know, he could have like hopefully non-stop like companionship. He wants it. He's a lover. He has a cutie though. Yeah. Okay, so diving back in. So today uh we are opening the cover of our May book of the month. And as you can see, it's my darling dreadful thing. Beautiful cover. Love it. So pretty. It's by Johanna Van Veen. And I believe she's from Denmark. Yeah, I believe so. Let me. I think I think it's you guys. I've never heard of her before. I forget how I came across that. I think it was.

SPEAKER_02 8:03

You grew up in the Netherlands. Oh, Netherlands.

SPEAKER_01 8:06

Yeah. So does it do they speak? Is it Dutch? I think it's Dutch, yeah. Yeah, so sorry. If ever you might see this, that would be crazy wild if you did. Love your work. But this book, so I just randomly was like found a publisher, and it's not so random, but it's Penguin Random House. And I absolutely love all of the horror books that they publish. And so I did like the filter on their page, found like all the horrors, and I was like going through and I saw the cover and I was like, yo.

SPEAKER_02 8:46

So pretty.

SPEAKER_01 8:47

Yeah, and then I obviously read the little blurb and I was like, we have to put this on our list. We wanted, uh we put it out for you guys for a poll, and you chose play nice instead, which we're also obsessed with. We loved, yeah. But since I'm going and I am currently when you see this in Europe, I was like, well, we need to film ahead of time to push it out and have it scheduled for while I'm gone. Let's do this book that we really wanted to read, and then we like get the best of both worlds. Yeah. Because this was a close second, wasn't it? Like a lot of people still did want us to read it. So any hoozers.

SPEAKER_02 9:28

So we're starting our journey in the 19th century Netherlands where the dead don't just stay buried. We're meeting Rus, her ghostly companion Ruth, and a mystery that has already landed someone on trial for murder. So grab your tea. It's about to get dreadful. And the dread is actually delightful. Yeah. But before we get into all that, do you have any updates you want to get out of the way? I mean, we need midnight confessions for sure. Always, as always, we're gonna ask. Please give us.

SPEAKER_01 10:04

Yeah, we're not gonna stop asking.

SPEAKER_02 10:06

Give us the tea, give us the deets, the dirt, whatever you feel like sharing, share away.

SPEAKER_01 10:12

And I know it's difficult to dig within yourself and be like, huh, do I have something to share? Like anything you feel compelled to share. It doesn't have to be scary, scary or dreadful. It can be a darling.

SPEAKER_02 10:30

As much as we love that, I mean it could literally just be something you just want to get off your chest and maybe you don't have anyone else you can talk to about it. We're here, you can stay anonymous if you'd like. Completely up to you.

SPEAKER_01 10:42

What goes along with this? If you wanted to do like a theme, it would kind of piggyback. Well, so in play nice, it's a demon, right? So those are like poltergeisty demons, mimics, house haunts, stuff like that. This would be more of like, I mean, you could also do haunted house, yeah, but like spirit, medium, imaginary friends, yeah, psychic medium, all that jazz. Like it, but don't limit yourself because we will not limit ourselves. We don't want to fit into your typical niche box. We're not here for that. We want to do a lot of different things, and so we ask the same of you. Just if you have a story, whether it's a 30-second read or a 30-minute read, send it in. Don't shorten it, throw in the typos, we'll figure it out. What else? Well, sweet. Oh, yeah, childhood ghosts too. Yes, yes. Well, I guess that kind of goes along with imaginary.

SPEAKER_02 11:50

But like maybe it wasn't actually imaginary.

SPEAKER_01 11:52

Or like maybe you were in the woods and you are from out here in the Pacific Northwest and you swore to god you saw Bigfoot.

SPEAKER_02 11:59

Like, we would love local stories for sure.

SPEAKER_01 12:01

Local lore.

SPEAKER_02 12:02

Yeah. Or just lore in general. Yeah, that'd be amazing. I would love to hear some of like the stuff that goes on around here just to I really want to like go check out that haunted hospital.

SPEAKER_01 12:16

The one, the one that I almost like took a job at as an RN uh when I was still willing to be an RN. What is it? The state one that's like right up the road. That thing's fucking spooky as hell, and it's like hundreds of years old. But, anyways, send us whatever. Last little bit of business I was going to mention was Etsy, our Etsy shop. I said this in the last episode. I'm gonna reiterate it until I'm back from Europe and can focus time on it. I am just unable to, I reach my limit. I was like putting way more on my plate than I was able to, you know, chew. And I was gonna have a mental breakdown. So I put a pause on that. I it it deserves the attention that it will receive in due time. So when I get back from Europe, we'll start plugging away again at the Etsy shop. It's up, we just don't have any items in the shop yet, but that will be cozy C O Z Y Midnight, but this is spelled different M D N G H T collective C O L L E C T I V E dot Etsy E-T-S-Y dot com. And I had to do it that way just because of character um length. So yeah, hopefully you'll check us out then and we'll do more plugs when we actually have some shit up in there.

SPEAKER_02 13:44

Yeah. Okay, so I guess before we really dive into this, you know, maybe not wait quick spoiler and content warning, you know, this is a horror book review podcast, you know, we're gonna talk about all things spooky, gore-related, you know, it's gonna get it could get icky a couple times, you know. So just keep that in mind going forward. And we do do very deep dives into these books, so yeah, heavy spoilers, like we use foul language. Yeah, where I can't. We're yeah, it is who I am. We're adults. It's just actually I'm not fucking sorry. No, it's just it's just how we talk. Yeah, yeah. So if that is something that maybe you're not interested in, then maybe try something else. See you never. Yeah, I don't know. What's up to you, I guess. Welcome. Yeah. I say let's get into it. Let's get into it. Because this I cannot work. It's so good. Mm-hmm. Full transparency. We finished this in like three days. Three days. No more than five. It's probab and like we could have finished it fast before. Yeah. If we didn't have responsibilities, which we're drowning in them. Yeah. But I'm like, this book was so good.

SPEAKER_01 15:02

I I I ate it up. I literally I haven't read something so fast in so long. Like I was telling Lauren, I used to read a book in like a day or two. Like I would just eat it up. I haven't been able to because, you know, adulthood. Yeah. And I just don't have that privilege with all these kids. So somehow the stars aligned and I was able to like fit in time. And a lot of that was staying up too late. I was like, I must go on.

SPEAKER_02 15:42

But this book is is worth it because it just was, it's so good. The the setting, like it's it's eerie.

SPEAKER_01 15:48

It's it is, but it's more eerie than it is scary. I don't think I was ever truly like how we're feeling with play nice. And I'm not comparing the books, but because we're reading them both so quickly together and or at the same time, because of us having to plan ahead the recording, it's just easy for me to be like, oh, play nice. I literally get like, ooh, and I'm scared and I think there's like something out of the corner of my eye.

SPEAKER_02 16:17

Like even now, I'm like getting the joke.

SPEAKER_01 16:19

Yeah. But like this one, it's I'm still very like peaceful with it. It's creepy AF and it's eerie, like you said, but I'm not like it's more of like a like gothic. It's like dark poor because of the content. Yeah. As well as what's done to these women. To me, it's not even like the ghost. Because like what's not the ghost. That's a ghost. The ghosts are the fake. It's like mama to roost. Yeah. It's Thomas to Agnes. To Ad Yeah, I almost wanted to say Addie to Agnes. That's the true horror. Even at the very end, when all that shit goes down with him outside of the house, I'm like, you fucking bitch baby. You know, I'm not spooked out. I'm just like, fuck you. You know?

SPEAKER_02 17:15

Yeah. And this book goes dark. It gets very dark in different ways, but it is so gripping and it keeps you. I was never, there's never a point where I was irritated or like wanting the story to move on and evolve.

SPEAKER_01 17:32

No, it was perfectly laid out.

SPEAKER_02 17:34

Perfect, literally just perfect.

SPEAKER_01 17:35

And do you remember that one day? So I had finished and you still maybe you had a little less than half of the book. And I was like, dude, I I I need you, I need us to read her other books. And I was like searching all over the place, looking into it, like just like obsessing over Johanna and her other books. And I was like, and you're like, and then boom, the next day you're like, I fucking finished it, and we're reading her other shit now. And I was like, yes. She's just she she gets she gets it. She knew the assignment. So good for you. Cause I just that was amazing. So that's like you're probably all like, oh my god, get to the fucking story already. Well, we will.

SPEAKER_02 18:29

I guess where we can start is Roos. And her full name is Roos Bruce G, right? R J Rush J. R O J. So R-O-O-S-J-E. Beckman. Beckman, yes.

SPEAKER_01 18:44

And because it takes place in the Nether well. The author is from Netherlands, but I don't know why I keep wanting to say. I think they speak Dutch, but she might be in Netherlands. I believe it does take place in the Netherlands. So I am having Lauren search for our study. I believe they're in the Netherlands, but just to make sure, I mean, I guess we could Google it even quicker, but I believe it's pronounced Roos G- or Roost J. Um, so sorry if I'm slaughtering that. Regardless, we call her Ruse R-O-O-S. And she's like this young, I believe she's 19. 21. Oh yeah. Okay, so she's is a 21-year-old young woman who is being interviewed right off the bat from a therapist. She is essentially incarcerated, however, she's being held at like what you would consider like a psychiatric ward for the times. Uh the police are utilizing the therapists in the interview, and so he's conducting like this week-long interview with her because a major tragedy happened that ended up with several dead bodies on a property and one body missing from the cemetery that was dug up, and they cannot find these people. Well, two of them. She is being looked at as being the one who has done all these horrific things to these people, and of course, you know, we'll get into it in due time. But yeah, they need to see if her story is real, which nobody nobody believes that her story is real. On top of that, they think she's faking, they say, like being a fiend of the mind or something like that. Like she's just like faking insanity in this wild, outrageous story, so she can get out of jail and have to stay in a psychiatric ward for the rest of her life. But either way, like from the very get-go, they're like, Well, you're either going to prison for the rest of your life or you're going to the psych ward for the rest of your life. Like, there's no chance in hell you're getting out of this. And that's where we start. And you're like, what the fuck is going on immediately?

SPEAKER_02 21:37

And she goes straight into it, you know, she explains, and in your when you're reading it, you're reading it as if you're as if you're listening to her tell her Doctor Montague the story. Yeah. And so she says, I was never really a happy child, and my mama was the mainly the reason for it. And so Her mom and Ruth, they would do seances for people. And they're they're fakes, you know. Mama, mama, you know, up until yeah. Mama is a fake, right? She mama is fake. She has a medium. She like sets up the room and she wears like dangly bracelets and she like has this whole setup where very dark, there can be no light.

SPEAKER_01 22:27

Like the whole setting is just what you would expect.

SPEAKER_02 22:32

Easier to fool these poor people who are just trying to speak to their dead family members or friends or whatever. And this is also freshly after the war. Well, I believe it's World War II, right? With there's like a lot of people who are coming to speak to their husbands that have passed on, fathers, uh, there's you know, some people have children. And so there's a lot of people that come through. And Ruth's first meeting.

SPEAKER_01 23:00

Before we even get into Ruth, they were just completely faking it the entire time. Like there was no companion. And so nobody, nobody could speak to the dead. They would basically like build files. Like, if you had like a manila folder on somebody, and you like you had their name and you dug up all the dirt you could on one individual and you stuck it all in the vanilla folder, and then you studied it. Okay, they booked a session to come tomorrow at at 8 p.m. So all day, Roos is gonna be prepping, prepping, prepping, prepping, prepping all the information on this person so that when they come in, mama conducts the seance. Roos will be hiding like throughout the house, whether it's like under the floorboards or behind the wall or under the piano or whatever, to do different things. Like pull different strings, pull different strings, like make different, yeah, like knock three times if you're you know, and try to cater into what these people want to hear. However, this all changes one day, and mind you, fuck mama, she's a bitch, she is not a good person, real mother, and you want to kind of tell a little bit of like that, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 24:37

So the way mama had told it to Roos as a child was that her father he was in the war, he had no one else to take care of Roos, so he asked this woman to take care of his daughter while he was away.

SPEAKER_01 24:56

And he sent money, he sent letters, like a large she said he he had money and he would always send payment more than enough, yeah, more than enough to take care of her, and when he was back in town and he wasn't traveling all the time for the war, he would be there with her.

SPEAKER_02 25:18

Yeah, and he he was a very intense, he loved his daughter, yes, yeah. And then so then there was a point where the money stopped coming, the letters stopped coming, and they assumed they never got confirmation, but they assumed that he died during the war and that his ship went down. And so sad, Rus is left alone with this mama, and she is instructed to call her mama, not mom, not mother, it has to be mama because it makes her seem childlike and innocent. And as Roos is getting older, she's starving. She's starving her, she's making her wear like these white linen nightgowns, and she's meant to look like a child, even though she's a 21-year-old woman.

SPEAKER_01 26:14

Yes, doesn't even bleed her monthlies because of how malnourished and starved she is. She allows her like morsels each day. Sometimes she won't even feed her, and she says that that's more than enough. You're lucky you even got that.

SPEAKER_02 26:38

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 26:38

Like she is so tiny. It just honestly, the first image that pops into my head is like when you have to go back in your mind through to your high school years and you're learning about the Holocaust, and you're seeing these photos of the people that are near skin and bone, how emaciated they look, and you can just oh, it just hurt it, like, looks painful.

SPEAKER_02 27:05

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 27:06

Like to even like move, like you hit the wrong thing, there goes your fucking bone, right? That's how she looks.

SPEAKER_02 27:14

Yeah, and it's it's really sad, and she does so. I I kind of do want to go into how she met Ruth because as a child she was small enough to fit in the floorboards, and she was terrified of being under the floorboards.

SPEAKER_01 27:31

She would if she made mama, please, please don't make me go because it's dark.

SPEAKER_02 27:36

And if she made noise, mama would beat her. Beat her. And so she says that she's down there one day and she's like biting her hand because she used to bite her. She wants to scream so bad. Like that skin between your thumb and your finger, the little web. It's heavily scar because of how often she would do that. But part of it is because she could see under the floorboards this figure, and this figure is a young girl like her. But she's she's a ghost, she's terrifying to look at, her jaw is like broken and snapping off and like blacking. She makes like these crazy clicking the grudge.

SPEAKER_01 28:20

Did you ever watch the movie The Grudge?

SPEAKER_02 28:21

Yeah. When it's like Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 28:25

Literally picture the fucking grudge, but it's like detached on one side. Or it can detach and reattach, right? Anyway, sorry.

SPEAKER_02 28:35

Well, so initially it's just hanging. And so this this just think, it's a little girl, like six, seven years old. She's terrified. And the ghost is like every now and then, like it just like it keeps moving closer and closer to her every time she goes down. And she knows that like this, and she's like, somebody is trapped, like it's trapped here, it won't leave. And there's gonna fucking kill me. She would think it's gonna kill her.

SPEAKER_01 29:01

Her heart would give out because of how she would pass out sometimes. She was so scared, filled with fear, she would pass out.

SPEAKER_02 29:12

And it's oh, and it's so sad because like there's a point where the ghost comes to her. To her fucking face, y'all. And how does the blood

Welcome & The Midnight Draw (Tarot)

SPEAKER_02 29:22

so okay her blood from her hand from when she was from when she was biting dripped down and landed in her mouth.

SPEAKER_01 29:30

In the ghost mouth. In the ghost mouth. That's the first connection. So you need one more connection for what's about to happen. She had she named her. But I don't I am perhaps five years old and I'm scared senseless. The space is cold and damp and smells of mold and earth. Though my eyes get used to the dark, I can't help but be terrified. Sometimes I weep from fright. Mama explains away these sounds as the spirit of a little child who is lost. And though her clients believe her, she still thrashes at me after such a session. Do you want our guests to think the afterlife is a horrible place? She hisses at me. But Ruth is down here, Mama, and she wants to bite me and drink my blood. I howl as I clutch mama's skirts, trying to stay out of reach of the birch rod she holds in her hands. I have not yet learned to take what is coming to me without a fight. So she just calls her Ruth. Yeah. No rhyme or reason, which later, the reason why I was looking for a rhyme and reason is because later there's another connection where they're named with a purpose. But with Ruth, um, I love Ruth. Ruth ends up being Ruth ends up her literal fucking road dog. Long story short, so she in that moment, she just names her Ruth. I think at some point deeper in the book, maybe when the therapist is speaking with her, we'll try to find it so because it's worthy of like note. Long story short, for like for right now, she just names her. And because she was scared biting, so and Ruth had gotten up so close to her after all these months down there, just edging. Moving closer, yeah. Yeah, she got some of the blood in Ruth's mouth, and boom.

SPEAKER_02 31:27

And so now she's Ruth refers to her as her yoke mate, like your yoke mate. And the way that they describe their relationship is there is no me without Ruth, and there is no Ruth without Ruth. Without Ruth. So it's like they become one pretty much, and not all like she's kind of just around or Ruth, right?

SPEAKER_01 31:49

All the time.

SPEAKER_02 31:49

She's all the she's around her all the time.

SPEAKER_01 31:52

But then only Ruth can see Ruth.

SPEAKER_02 31:54

And then they discover that if Ruth invites her in, which Ruth is kind, she won't try to kind to Ruth. She's kind to Ruth, yes. She loves Ruth. Her whole existence revolves around keeping her safe. Now, when it comes to like with mama, she kind of recognizes that like where else are we supposed to go? There's really nothing else we can do. So it's kind of like we have to put up with mama, right?

SPEAKER_01 32:24

But but she hates her.

SPEAKER_02 32:26

She does. She does like hiss at her sometimes, like and she makes herself known to Mama. Like Mama knows she's there. But they discover pretty early on that if Ruth allows it or if she invites her in, Ruth can will go down like her throat and she spreads out like into her body and she can take control of her body. Of her body. And so Mama kind of recognizes this and she's like, okay, great. We can use her for the same thing.

SPEAKER_01 32:56

Yeah, we're gonna, we're gonna, we're gonna turn this into a fucking. Now we have a pony.

SPEAKER_02 33:01

So now the way she explains it as like, oh, my daughter has a companion, and and Roos, or Ruth is like the the link from between us and the dead. And so basically, Rus will invite through Ruth your loved one that has passed on, and then she then can embody through Ruth's connection to the dead, she can pretty much help usher that spirit into Ruth, my daughter. And Rus will take on the spirit of your family member.

SPEAKER_01 33:39

And then you will be able to connect, see, speak, hear, touch.

SPEAKER_02 33:44

Now that's the thing.

SPEAKER_01 33:44

And that's where the research gets taken away.

SPEAKER_02 33:47

Yeah, you're not allowed to touch. It is exp you are forbidden from touching after an incident. After an incident, and that's because like there was like a man who like had like what did he do? We'll go into it later.

SPEAKER_01 34:00

Yeah. So are we do unless do we want to? Well, I think that would be part four is when we find out.

SPEAKER_02 34:06

No, not that. So there was like one where like a guy had not even him, it was like some guy had like grabbed at Ruth and like left marks on her because he was like shaking her so hard. It was either he was shaking her, so it's really not that big of a deal, but like this guy had broken the rule and had like grabbed her and was like jostling her. And there are some situations too where mama will kind of allow certain kinds of touch where it's like I think if it's pre if it's and if it's that one lady, if it's miss the one who's who's whose daughter, yeah, whose little daughter died. Died. Yeah, she'll kind of let her touch her, but even then, like very limited touch. The only touch that mama seems to be okay with is like some of the men will grab a little bit below the skirt, or like they're just kind of very like the handsy sense of the.

SPEAKER_01 34:57

Exactly what you think. It's gross.

SPEAKER_02 34:58

Yeah, so there are certain ones where she kind of will let it go on for too long, and then she's like, Oh no, no, the rules are no touching, but she'll let it go on for a little bit because it brings them back.

SPEAKER_01 35:07

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 35:08

And and remember, nobody knows how old Ruth actually is. They all think that she's like they probably think she's because she's so malnourished. And then the way mama dresses her is she looks like a little girl. And she's supposed to talk in like this like soft voice, like very timid and and like very almost like lower IQ.

SPEAKER_01 35:35

Like she doesn't really have much of this.

SPEAKER_02 35:43

Rose, yes, with that whole thing where she's very like having to go along with this, like very docile, very like no, know your place, very soft spoken. I don't yes, exactly. Maybe not. Oh, that was a really good analogy. Yeah, so sh so Mama is now exploiting not only Ruth's because initially she was using Ruth kind of as like her sh like, you know, the show person behind the scenes or whatever, but now she's like, great, I got a ghost. Like very wizard. Yeah. So she is pretty much using her for that, and she's also using Ruth. It's fucked because it's so fucked. As like a normal mother, yeah, you'd be like, What do you mean you have a ghost friend that's hanging out with you and goes inside you sometimes and can control your body? Like, what are you talking about? But mama is a shitty person and she doesn't give a fuck.

SPEAKER_01 36:34

And well, in the beginning, she thinks Ruth has just lost her fucking mind. She she it takes a while before she actually believes her, and then Ruth will say, and even now, even after all Ruth has done to prove her existence with me and in me, she's still 85 or 90% sure that Ruth is there.

SPEAKER_02 37:05

Yeah. But there's like little things that Ruth does that like mama's like, oh yeah, no, there's definitely something here. And she's like, and she's she's she's res like she still like gets after Ruth's, but there's certain points where Ruth is like, mm-mm, mm-hmm, don't even.

SPEAKER_01 37:22

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 37:22

But so one more thing I want to say before we move on to Agnes. God, I just can't talk forever about this book. It just Yeah. Like initi So, you know, one of the first lines we read from Ruth's point of view is that the day that she meets Agnes, she gets her period for the first time in like three months. Yeah, or like six months or something.

SPEAKER_01 37:51

And then Mama makes a comment about it. I shouldn't have let you eat six months.

SPEAKER_02 37:54

Obviously, you're eating enough of your bleeding again, pretty much.

SPEAKER_01 37:58

And and she's like flabbergasted. She's like, Yeah. I'm skin, I'm literal bones. Please, just I'm she's so hungry, you guys, and she will not stop talking about how hungry she is all the time.

SPEAKER_02 38:15

And it just breaks your heart. That's so sad. D, she gets her period, and then Bruce, she's beaten again, likes her blood. Oh yeah. So she like lays. It's like a treat her blood that like dripped on like the or like no, she washes herself in like in like a tub. She's washing herself in the tub, and then Ruth will drink the bathwater. Drink the bathwater. Yes. And it's nothing like it's not weird, it's not sexual, it's not a sex, it's not a sexual thing.

SPEAKER_01 38:46

It's just that that's what so she says spirits crave salt and sugar. So anytime she eats like a candy, like, so Ruth wants the blood and it's basically the salt. And when she eats like um a pepperme or like, you know, whatever else, she wants to like suck that too.

SPEAKER_02 39:11

Yeah, so she'll like purposely eat like the hard candy to make it cut her cheeks. And then Ruth will like suckle on sickle on it. Or sickle. Or like if she has like chap lips and her lips are bleeding, she'll let her. Ruth will like give her a kiss and like she kind of just takes her blood off. So it's it's not and like because Dr. Montague is like he's trying to he's trying to twist it as like a like a like a lesbian thing, and she's like, No, Ruth is not, we're not like that.

SPEAKER_01 39:39

We're not lovers, but she's all they're fucking lovers.

SPEAKER_02 39:42

A part, we're just a part of each other. So it's like my blood, her blood. Like it's just it's just how it is.

SPEAKER_01 39:48

Like it's just like it's not weird, you know. We share because we are one. We are one because we share. Like, it's just it's literally second nature. I know this is all sounding just wild because when I was reading it, I was like, this is fucking wild, but you guys, it's it is so good, yeah. So well written, like that you're you're not even creeped out, you're like, okay, alright, cool. The ghost likes fucking blood. Let's go.

SPEAKER_02 40:14

Yeah. And so we kind of go into that day. Um, mama says, like, hey, we're gonna have a really important seance because Agnes Noop. Noop, right? Is coming. It's K-N-O-O-P.

SPEAKER_01 40:28

But I think it's no, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 40:29

Yeah. And she's recently widowed. And she's got money. She's like deep. Don't bump this up. She could come back and be a regular. And so she gives her, she gives Ruth and Ruth. She gives them some money to go to the dossier, pretty much. Yeah, there's some money to um go to the store. Go to the store. But then she also gives them like a packet on Mr. Noop, who the Manila Folder. Yeah, the mil manila folder. Yeah. And we learned that, you know, he's like a handsome guy, successful. They had this house, um, you know, kind of out in the country. He has a sister who is Willamy. Yeah, Willow me and she's ill. Both parents are deceased. Both parents deceased, and so it's really all that's left for the noobs. Major estates. Yeah, this huge house. It's not even a house. It's like a fucking castle. It's a mansion, pretty much. Yeah. And we learn that Agnes is what is she? Her because it's important to note her race.

SPEAKER_01 41:37

So it's of Asian descent. Because they say something about slit eyes. Which is terrible. It they so the book has a racist portion to it.

SPEAKER_02 41:50

Especially when it comes to Agnes. Because Agnes is a widow and her husband was a rich Dutch in family trouble. Family trouble, but we don't really learn about that until the money. A little bit later.

SPEAKER_01 42:05

Like she said it in the in the folder that she gave to But she has money. No, she said Agnes has money, but but Thomas' family, the Rosentiuan, the whole estate had money trouble. And so Agnes's dowry was meant to solve that family's money trouble. But they used to come, they used to be like wealthy, wealthy, wealthy, but I don't think they ever touched on how they lost their wealth. Okay. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 42:40

Yeah. So, you know, I think we we need to mention Agnes's race for the times.

SPEAKER_01 42:45

Because there's some racist stuff that comes with stuff that comes with Agnes's. But it's it it's written by the author in very good taste. Yeah. Right. But it's just part of history.

SPEAKER_02 42:56

It's just, yeah, how the things were and so 1938. Well, at this point, it's like the 40s. It's like 45 at this point. Okay. So it's like 45, 48, something like that. So it's like we're heading into the 50s. So basically, we find out that Agnes is Indonesian. She is Well, half. Half Indonesian, yeah. So but she looks more Indonesian Indonesian than she does.

SPEAKER_01 43:23

Slit eyes, yeah, they say, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 43:26

And so Asian. But she's very beautiful. Like everybody says from the get-go, she is a beautiful, beautiful woman. Drop dead. It's you can't deny it. She's gorgeous.

SPEAKER_01 43:37

And like, and nowadays we all know that mixed children are the most beautiful creatures on earth. Yeah. She's Yeah. So I'm just some fucking white European dumb. I have Cherokee Indian in me and you would never even know.

SPEAKER_02 43:55

Again, so Mama gives the manila folder. To Ruth and Ruth to study so that way they can embody the late Mr. Noop, aka Thomas. And so, you know the body. They yeah, so they're like reading up on you know the history, they got married, they've been married for a little while, like yeah, not yeah, 15 years, yeah. So they've been married for a long time.

SPEAKER_01 44:22

But but the recent is the death. He's only dead dead for nine or ten months.

SPEAKER_02 44:28

Yeah, so it's very, very recent. So she basically finds like so they they find some pictures, they see that he has a sister. Well, I mean find out she becomes like the pivotal character later in the book.

SPEAKER_01 44:42

She's ill and with tuberculosis.

SPEAKER_02 44:45

Yeah, Agnes takes care of her like full time. And so, you know, Ruth is kind of or Ruth is kind of gathering these things and she's creating this image in her mind, and she does this so she can get into character, so she tries to put herself really into the shoes of the deceased. She her and Ruth kind of come up with this together that way they can really emulate and really convincingly play the character like the the character of the of the dead person.

SPEAKER_01 45:14

So they cannot like summon spirits at the drop of a dime like that, nor would she allow another spirit to possess her.

SPEAKER_02 45:23

No, she won't do it.

SPEAKER_01 45:24

So it's just a show.

SPEAKER_02 45:25

She allows Ruth to possess her, and then Ruth does that activity type thing. Like, picture, like, what are they called? Like a marionette puppet type thing. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 45:38

She uses her to put on this show because they study this information. Ruth keeps that information and can still almost like have a conversation with Ruth like telepathically while she's like possessed, and they work together to put on this like magnificent show, is what they say.

SPEAKER_02 46:06

Yeah. And so the so the the day of the seance. Well, so she she does do this and she kind of puts herself in Thomas's shoes, and she sees Agnes coming out of like the house, and she's running up to him, and like they're in love, they're this happy in love couple, they kiss, and like she gets like pulled out of that, and she's like, Whoa, like she she admits that like Agnes is beautiful, like Thomas was a lucky guy, like you know, so so she she's kind of going into this with that mindset, but she's also a little nervous because like you know, Agnes is supposed to be this high-paying, potentially recurring client that could like make things a lot better for them. Like, while they are I'd say that they're somewhat successful, they're still pretty much like living paycheck to paycheck. They're not overly rich, like they have very um what's the word? Like modest lodgings.

SPEAKER_01 47:09

I don't know, it's just they're they're pretty still have a home, they have a like they have a home, nobody has to like leave and probably like lower middle class type thing where hey mom is fed, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 47:22

Mama's fed, but she doesn't feed poor roof. So I know so the seance takes place and they have um a couple regulars come in, one of them being um their neighbor who is well she has a daughter who had died, and there's another man who comes who another regular. So I mean just the point is that they're regulars and they know the drill, they know they're not supposed to touch, they know they're not supposed to intervene with anything, they're very respectful because they want to be able to see their family members. And Agnes comes in and right off the bat, like Rus is just taken by her. She's beautiful, she does look sad, but she's just like this beautiful woman who like just sits and she's very quiet. And initially they start off by singing a song at mama's request.

SPEAKER_01 48:20

Well, that's how you're supposed to like.

SPEAKER_02 48:22

That's how you start it, is you're supposed to sing a song. And Agnes doesn't sing, she kinda is very, like, it seems like she's really kind of picking things apart. Yeah, like she's you're putting on a show. She can tell, like Ruth can tell that Agnes can tell that something's up, right? And so Agnes is kind of worried going into this. Like she's very worried about her performance. She's worried that she's not gonna be able to sell it right. Agnes is, you know, she's she seems like she's kind of picking everything apart. Like she knows it's all just like a lot of people. She knows something. And so so Ruth's really interested in Ruth. In Ruth.

SPEAKER_01 48:57

And she's like staring at her. This is okay. When everyone was seated, momma began the stance by explaining the rules, then bade us to join hands. I lay my hands on the table, the sides touching the hands of my neighbors. So just I think it's neighbors, like this. This neighbor and this neighbor. They're sitting next to her. That's her neighbors. Is Mr. Bacher and Miss DeJong, both of them familiar and devout after the Birch Rod incident. So that I think was prior with that one dude. Mama would only let long-term guests sit next to me. Mr. Bacher had lost his wife during the bombing of Rotterdam and had come to visit us soon after. Miss DeJong wished to commune with her little girl who had died of measles nearly three years ago. And then they sang they let us sing the hymn to make the spirits feel welcome. Be thou my vision. It's like, yeah, it's just this huge, like just this show. Show. Yeah. And then Miss DeJong and the enthusiastic belting of Mr. DeVries on her right as the seance starts again.

SPEAKER_02 50:20

Roos is already kind of nervous just going into it because mama is like, this is a big pang.

SPEAKER_01 50:25

Yeah, you better fucking perform and perform well. We have a recurring client that we need to like potential recurrent client, we need to solidify.

SPEAKER_02 50:39

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 50:40

Like, let's get this shit done. Let's make some fucking money. Especially after there's an incident that we'll go over later where they had like a very high-paying client that was frequent and it turned disastrous. Did not at all. Which was his own fucking fault. Yeah, so I'm just going to read you guys like an excerpt from the book that kind of explains like a little bit of like who was present, kind of a little bit of the atmosphere and how they got the seance going. Right. And they obviously they did this numerous times, so it was like second nature to them all. But so mama has everybody, everybody's present for who's gonna be at this current seance, Agnes included, and then a couple of repeat customers. So when everyone was seated, mama began the seance by explaining the rules, then bade us to join hands. I lay my hands on the table, the sides touching the hand of my neighbor. So, you know, they're all at the table, hands are on the table, and they're holding hands. So her neighbor to her right, her neighbor to her left. Okay. I lay my hands on the table, the sides touching the hands of my neighbors. Mr. Bacher and Miss Mrs. DeJong, both of them familiar and devout after the Birch Rod incident. Mama would only let long-term guests sit next to me. Mr. Bacher had lost his wife during the bombing of Rotterdam and had come to visit us soon after. Mrs. Dejong wished to commune with her little girl who had died of measles nearly three years ago. Spirits, I call on you. You are welcome here. We ask that you join us. Mama looked around the circle. Let us sing a hymn to make the spirits feel welcome. She sang the first line of Be Thou My Vision and was swiftly joined by the others. Her strong voice leading the atonal mumblings of Mrs. DeJong and the enthusiastic belting of Mr. DeVries on her right. As I sang, I worked my foot slowly out of its slipper just a little longer, and then I'd crack. That was my crack. My toes against the floor. Such spirit wrappings help helped prepare our clients for the strange spectacle of possession. I mean, I could just keep reading and reading forever, but Agnes was. But I think she knew it was a ruse. You know what I'm saying?

SPEAKER_02 53:23

Yeah, well, I mean, from the get-go, she embodies the little girl of the woman who lost her daughter of measles.

SPEAKER_01 53:31

It's like spot on. Yeah, very well done. And she goes But she wouldn't sing from the get-go. Is like she's like, why are you singing? She's like, no, no, no, no, no. We have to start over. Like, you need to be involved. Because it's like also part of them getting her distracted from like analyzing everything that's going on. No, you need to participate, or you're not gonna have connection.

SPEAKER_02 54:01

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 54:02

Basically.

SPEAKER_02 54:02

Yeah. And so it kind of becomes essentially showtime, you know? And like we get her to sing. Yeah, like we said, what Ruth does is she will enter into Ruth's body, and she pretty much will do that. And they call the acting for her. Yeah, it's her spirit companion. So they do explain that like she has a spirit companion. They do explain that like Ruth is a thing, right? But she's just like the link. Exactly.

SPEAKER_01 54:32

She's the link between worlds.

SPEAKER_02 54:34

And the only one who can understand that link is Ruth, pretty much. So that's the whole thing. So when it's time for Ruth to embody Thomas, she lets him in, right? And she looks at Agnes and she's pretty much like my love. Like it's me.

SPEAKER_01 54:59

Yeah, and then she's like, fuck.

SPEAKER_02 55:01

She speaks English. Yeah. And oh, that's the other thing too, is that Agnes speaks to Thomas in English. In English. And so Ruth knows very little English. She knows enough for like conversationally. Not even.

SPEAKER_01 55:19

Probably like just like un poquito espanhol.

SPEAKER_02 55:22

Like the just the minimum.

SPEAKER_01 55:25

Like that's it.

SPEAKER_02 55:27

And she's talking to her, and then Agnes starts saying something again in English. And there's a moment where like Ruth kind of panics because she's like, Yeah. Like, I don't know like what to say.

SPEAKER_01 55:39

I have to dig deep in my fucking brain archives to figure out what fucking English I remember from like childhood.

SPEAKER_02 55:50

Because she said that mama had it had hired like an English tutor for her. But then she didn't end up liking the tutor for some reason.

SPEAKER_01 55:59

And then maybe that probably also that it costs money.

SPEAKER_02 56:03

So she just fired her and was like, fuck it, you just don't get to learn English English.

SPEAKER_01 56:07

And she's like, Okay. I am gonna get so fucking caught right now.

SPEAKER_02 56:13

So she's terrified because she's like, oh my god, like what do I say? Like what do I do? And she kind of comes up with something on the spot where it's pretty much along the lines of like what? Like, I love you, my darling, or something like that. And yeah, let me if you find it, I'll yeah, I'll just keep going.

SPEAKER_01 56:34

I'm almost there because I thought it was like as chapter three ended. But it ended with her being like, okay, go on, invite her in. She's like, okay, like I need your permission to invite Ruth in me. So she she fucking hates her, but she she just keeps her happy. Slowly, Ruth took a lock of Agnes's hair between my fingers and pulled it back, revealing a small round ear. When she brought my mouth close to Agnes's ear, Agnes shivered and closed her eyes. Ruth was close enough that I could see the goose flesh. So interesting, instead of like goosebumps. I could see the goose flesh ripple over Agnes's throat. Agnes? Ruth breathed. Oh, Agnes. She bent over her. Agnes leaned her cheek against my arm. We could smell her, Ruth and I. Her expensive perfume and scented soap, and underneath that sweet, intimate smell of her body. My belly clenched, and I felt that constriction of my throat again. My darling, my love, Ruth murmured. Agnes looked up at me. In the dark pool of her irises, I read curiously, fear and dread and pain. But as well as horror. I saw a strange yearning, potent and raw. She pressed her lips firmly together. Her eyes, bruised by sleepless sleeplessness, said, I am hurt. The harsh twist of her mouth said, I am proud. And the tremble in her fingers that she strove in vain to hide from me by bawling her hands into fists. What did what did that say? That a part of her wished to seize me and not let go? Mine, I thought. Mine, Ruth echoed. She put my hands around Agnes's throat and kissed her tight lips. Agnes, my darling, she murmured, have you missed me? Agnes parted her lips and began to speak. Ruth and I stared at her proud mouth, feeling horror twist in my stomach. We had no idea what she was saying. The sounds would not translate into any words we knew. Agnes looked Agnes looked at us expectantly. Then when she got no answer, she repeated herself. English, I thought, now recognizing a word here and there. God damn me. Did she and her husband speak English to each other? And then at the end, I flickered into possession of myself. I screwed on a smile as Glassomir thin frown lines etched themselves between Agnes's brows. My darling, I love you. I said in my best English. To shut her up, I bent down and kissed her, touching her hair like I had seen Mr. Noop do in a photograph.

SPEAKER_02 59:47

Yeah. So yeah, they shared a kiss. Yeah. And Bruce is like, oh my gosh, this is an amazing. Fucking love this woman.

SPEAKER_01 59:58

Like immediately.

SPEAKER_02 59:59

So she's she's obsessed. Like obsessed.

SPEAKER_01 1:00:02

But not like not gonna kill you obsessed, but she's it she's in the world.

SPEAKER_02 1:00:08

I will kill for you, obsessed.

SPEAKER_01 1:00:09

In in lust love.

SPEAKER_02 1:00:12

Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:00:14

Yeah. And as we like, and she never, there's never anything ever brought up to make you question her sexuality. Um like it doesn't even first of all, it doesn't even matter. Maybe for the times, like almost 1950s, sure, but like her circumstances are so like whenever was she ever even going to have the opportunity to date or like become a wife because of her fucking condition, where she's kept lock and key, emaciated, no money, no job, no, no skill other than scamming people through fake seances, which she hates doing. She feels fucking hates, but she she has no other option. She truly is like that gypsy rose con like connection well analogy, that's brilliant. Really, because she's fucking trapped, and even though she is 21, she is fully cognitively there, like she is not dumb, but she is trapped. She had mama was meticulous in how she she wanted her kept so that she would always remain dependent and that she could keep her under her thumb, earning her income so she could survive, so she could be fed.

SPEAKER_02 1:01:55

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:01:56

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:01:56

It's fucked up. Yeah. And it just makes you it makes your blood boil because it's like Mama truly does not understand how lucky she is. Oh. That Rus was like just leave her alone. Like, don't do anything.

SPEAKER_01 1:02:19

Because when Ruth possesses Bruce, she and I'm not talking the Hulk, but she's fucking powerful.

SPEAKER_02 1:02:29

She's a little rage monster.

SPEAKER_01 1:02:31

And mu much more than she should be capable of doing, especially for her size related to her fucking weight is so like if it was just her, you could like, I feel like you could and break a bone. But when Ruth possesses her, she can pack a punch. Like she has some meat on her bones with Ruth in there.

SPEAKER_02 1:02:59

And something too that like Ruth says is that Ruth is obsessed. She loves shiny, sparkly things. Oh yeah. But for years, she's been grinding down glass and collecting the shards in like a little bottle. And she likes to mainly she likes to hold them up in the sun and she likes to let them sparkle.

SPEAKER_01 1:03:20

Like we do with glitter. Like she loves anything.

SPEAKER_02 1:03:23

Yeah. She loves anything glittery, sparkly, like, and you'll come to find out, like Agnes will give her like jewelry to play with, and she'll just be laying on the floor playing with like jewelry and like shiny rings and sparkles and stuff. And it's and it's actually like it's so cute. Really cute. But um, so yeah, so so she's been holding on to this ground glass.

SPEAKER_01 1:03:42

She's just over there, like it's like halfway between like a child and like a cat.

SPEAKER_02 1:03:48

It's adorable.

SPEAKER_01 1:03:48

You know what I mean? Like it's like it's yeah, it's adorable.

SPEAKER_02 1:03:51

Cute. But she she has they have like thought about on several occasions, like uh, how easy could it be to just slip some ground glass into mama's poop?

SPEAKER_01 1:04:01

You wouldn't even be able to taste it. Yeah, it's literally, it's literally like dust.

SPEAKER_02 1:04:07

Yeah, and so they they've thought they've been thinking about it. And just fucking work that like it never happened, and so you know, like I said, Ruth was always just like we'll just we're just gonna leave it.

SPEAKER_01 1:04:23

Yeah, you know, so right, time and place.

SPEAKER_02 1:04:26

Yeah, so going back to the seance, yes, Agnes and Rush share a pretty good kiss.

SPEAKER_01 1:04:34

And can I read this one last part? Okay, so good, you guys. So she's panicking. This is uh Roos. I always am like at the last minute, I'm like, am I saying the right word? Yeah, Rus.

SPEAKER_02 1:04:48

I mean, they're basically the same at the last time.

SPEAKER_01 1:04:50

They are, yeah. So internal dialogue, she's like, it'll come to me soon, I thought, when she denounces me, exposes me for a fraud, then I'll panic and hate myself. But long story short, fast forwarding, okay. It was not right to kiss a woman so beautiful and feel so little. It'll come to me soon, I thought. When she denounces me and exposes me for a fraud, then I'll panic and hate myself. In the meantime, I kept kissing her haughty hottie H A U G H T Y. Her haughty mouth. So this is from second gentle. H-A-U-G-H-T-Y is an adjective that describes someone who is arrogant and condescending. So she was thinking she was gonna respond that way. Yeah. Okay. In the meantime, I kept kissing her haughty mouth, murmuring English sentences of love that I had learned by rote, feeling as I suppose the dead do, which is to say nothing at all. I wish she'd push me away already and tell everyone that I was not her husband. Of letting me kiss her so dispassionately. It was not right to kiss a woman so beautiful and feel so little. When Agnes finally threw her chair back and got to her feet, it was a relief. Thank God, I thought as the other guests gasped, and one of them tried to pull Agnes back. She seized me around the waist and pulled me hard against her. Her arms locked tight around me. She was very tall. I had to crane my neck back to peer into her face. Her eyes flashed with something fierce. She'll hurt us. I thought and almost welcomed the blow. But she did not beat us. She whispered something to us, harsh and urgent, and then her smooth mouth was on mine. It was not tight and hard now, but wet and warm. Our tongues touched, and it seemed to me that with her soft sucking, she drew the blood up into my cheeks. It did not take long before she let go, mere seconds, a quarter of a minute maybe. I shuddered first, and then she almost done. Agnes sat down, placing her hands on the table, looking straight ahead of her as if nothing had happened. I, on the other hand, could not pretend this was normal. The feeling that had so far eluded me now flooded me, clutching my throat and making it hard to breathe. Did she kiss her husband thus? I thought wildly, did she just kiss me as a lover? And then Ruth, I murmured, Ruth, please help me. Like because she's like yeah. So I kind of like skipped throughout those, but but like hot and heavy, yeah, immediately connection between both of them. Yeah. Ruth is like, oh, okay, she must have she believed it. And all that we know now that we've gone through this book and like going back around, which like I am here for. Yeah. It's like, oh, Agnes knew Thomas wasn't there.

SPEAKER_02 1:08:18

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:08:19

She knew it was Rus. She knew it was Ruth. And she wanted Roos in that moment.

SPEAKER_02 1:08:31

Yeah, I mean, because literally at at the end of like that chapter.

SPEAKER_01 1:08:34

But you don't know that yet, y'all.

SPEAKER_02 1:08:36

Well, at the end of the chapter, Ruth does say, Bruce, she could see me. Yeah. She said, I I'm pretty sure that Mrs. New Woman could see me.

SPEAKER_01 1:08:47

Yeah, she was looking right at me.

SPEAKER_02 1:08:48

She was looking right at me. Yeah. And so, yeah, a couple days kind of goes by.

SPEAKER_01 1:08:54

There's a situation where Well, doesn't isn't there a really quick like a panic, right? Yeah, Ruth. They see um Peter briefly, and they all get like terrified, and Ruth like hisses and like freaks out, like it's not safe, right?

SPEAKER_02 1:09:12

Yeah, so there's that, and then there's a situation too where like in that I think in that scuffle, she Ruth passes out, and Agnes is like, oh my goodness, I'm so sorry. Like, I let's get we need to get you to a doctor. Like everybody rushes forward is like trying to like, you know, they're fanning her, they're like trying to help her, and mama's like, oh, don't worry, like she's fine. Oh no, she she does this whole like my baby. Oh yeah. My baby, my poor baby, my child.

SPEAKER_01 1:09:42

And she's like, You can't call the doctor, we have no money.

SPEAKER_02 1:09:44

We have no money, and Agnes is like, I'll front the bill.

SPEAKER_01 1:09:46

Yeah, well, and then Agnes is like, I'm paying you for this, like you have money, and she's like, We can't use the money, we need that money, and then she's like, I'll pay for you. I'll pay for the money. And it's like, you stupid fucking bitch. Yeah. Oh, your baby. Yeah, but like, don't use your earnings to care for your baby.

SPEAKER_02 1:10:07

Because when the doctor comes by, the doctor is like, How? Like, you should be having you know, he's he's like, he's like, You're very skinny.

SPEAKER_01 1:10:15

He literally is like, I'm writing you a prescription for food.

SPEAKER_02 1:10:20

Yeah, like you need to eat. And you need, like, I think you had also said like iron tablets as well, because he's like, You're very you're anemic for sure. You're very skinny. And he's like, Don't you eat? And mama's like, Oh, she just she's always eating each other. She's just so much, she doesn't stop. It just never it doesn't hold on to her pretty much. And so she's like, It's just like me when I was a child, and so mama pretty much lies the doctor, she's like, Yeah, yeah, no, I'll make sure to you know take care of her and whatever.

SPEAKER_01 1:10:47

So And like, wouldn't she like not let like the doctor see Roos like alone? Like she had to like well, there wasn't he didn't know. And then she was like, Did you say something to the fucking doctor?

SPEAKER_02 1:10:59

Like because he asked her, he was like, honestly, tell me, are you being taken care of here? And and Ruse is like, Yes, I'm fine. Yeah, as mama said, you know, I just the food just doesn't hold on to me pretty much. So God, she's such a fucking angel, yeah. And so, you know, uh a couple days goes by and I love her she mama sends her to like the grocery store because mama won't do the grocery shopping, but like she'll only go by once to a month or like once a quarter to settle the accounts and put money on their accounts for them to get grocery.

SPEAKER_01 1:11:32

And what's so sad, you guys, which this probably was a thing, but I still for the times and like 1950s, like it wasn't that long ago, even though it was like 75 years. But I'm just like when she was going and doing all the shopping, she had a lot of these stores she had to stay outside on the street, yeah, and they would bring the order to her and like set it on the ground, and then she could pick it up and take it. Like they did not want any kind of physical contact, she wasn't allowed to come into the store, and this was all because they knew they dealt with the dead and seances and were yeah, like witchy, which I just thought is so sad.

SPEAKER_02 1:12:20

It's really sad, and so yeah, she she comes home from shopping and Agnes is at the house with her mom. Yeah, and she's like like panicked. Oh my god, like she's like terrified. She's here to fucking she's talking about oust us and like she's doing it now. But Agnes is actually there to purchase Bruce. But she says it as like at first, she's like, you know, I'd like to take Ruth with me, and Mama is like, Oh, I couldn't part with my child, like she's my child, I love her. I love her so much. You know, I'm you know, this is the only way we make our money, and you know, I can't do this without her, and and Agnes is like, Well, I'll pay you. Like, how much do you want? Like, how much do you think your daughter's worth?

SPEAKER_01 1:13:07

You know, and could you imagine putting a price tag on your child and like any sum of money would never be enough because she's not for sale, and that's what any true mother would say. And even though this is like very like human traffic-y, no trigger warning because it's not like that.

SPEAKER_02 1:13:34

So, just so you know, even though there's like the sale of a human going on, this is very much so in benefit trying to take her away from mama because she knew something's not right here, but she also was like she knew she needed to get her out of there, yeah. Yeah, so mama ends up settling on like this higher amount. Like she's a higher amount of bigger. She goes back haggles a little bit. Haggling haggling trying to like give off like oh well, I guess if there were amount, you know, this would be and so they end up settling matters with each other. And Agnes is like, pack your bags, like, let's go. Let me get you out of here. Yeah. And so she like before she leaves, mama kind of catches her up, like upstairs in her room, and she's like, you know, she's gonna get bored of you. You're only gonna be there for a certain amount of time, and she's gonna get sick of you, and you're gonna be back here. And she's like pretty much just like talking shit, she's just being a dick. And there's a point where like Ruth is like up on like and she has to like crack herself like in half to get on top of like this wardrobe, but then she's like talking shit and she's just being a shit. So she doesn't always live in her body. She only really invites her, yeah. But it's like she pretty much just like crawls in her mouth, and like the more willing she is, the less it hurts. So, like the first couple times she went in to her, she said it hurt, but like it hurts, but it's not as bad as like fighting against it. So, anyway, so Ruth like hisses at mama, and like mama can like feel whatever Ruth is doing, and so mama just kind of backs off and she's like, This is not gonna be the last time we see each other pretty much.

SPEAKER_01 1:15:29

So Agnes, yeah, and she and I I'm not yours. Oh, yeah, and you're fucking lucky that I don't let her possess me and fucking tear you to shreds right now.

SPEAKER_02 1:15:43

And so, yeah, so that she kind of leaves on that note, she's like, fuck you, I'm out of here. And Agnes is waiting for her. They get into Agnes's nice car and like Ruth.

SPEAKER_01 1:15:54

Oh, and then Agnes is like, is that all you're bringing? And it was literally like, y'all, if you like, if I if this was like a really thin falling apart sheet, like a couple of items, and she's like, that's literally how she Yeah. She's like, that's it, that's your that's all you're bringing, and that's your the like that's your suitcase, and she's like, Yeah, this is all it's like this is it, and she's like, Yeah, let's get the fuck out of here.

SPEAKER_02 1:16:28

So Agnes right off the rip takes her shopping, takes her to a restaurant, stuffs her full of food.

SPEAKER_01 1:16:35

So did you ever did you did you because I know you're like a decade younger than me, did you guys in high school study the Holocaust still? Yeah. Okay. I like nowadays I'm pretty sure they do not teach it in in high school anymore.

SPEAKER_02 1:16:50

Well, the Diary of Anne Frank is a banned book in some places.

SPEAKER_01 1:16:55

I went to the Anne Frank house in Amsterdam. Um my cousin lives there now. Not in the Anne Frank house, but in Amsterdam. Um it's very sad. But long story short, um so what I'm referencing really quickly is I was surprised in the book because I thought, I definitely thought that Roos would get sick if she ate that much food. Because there were literally Holocaust survival, like when the United States and England came in and they were like freeing these people from the concentration camps, um, a lot of the soldiers were like handing over like MREs and or like just say like a protein bar, even just like trying to give them food because they're fucking starving and like immediately Mass Love's hierarchy needs they need food and water, like that's the only thing they care about at that time. Right. So they're like handing these fucking victims food, and some of them are eating so quick and so much that they're healing over and dying because their body doesn't know what to do. It's like it's it's too much to process like immediately.

SPEAKER_02 1:18:16

Yeah, well, I mean, I did like a 24-hour famine once with like my uh church in the house. Oh, like um um where you stop eating at a certain point and then you go the whole 24 hours. Okay, yeah, but I mean as like a 13-year-old kid, like that was rough.

SPEAKER_01 1:18:31

Yeah, can you have water?

SPEAKER_02 1:18:33

We could have water, but like you can have sip. Yeah, it's a fast pretty much. Yeah, but we were trying to do because it was like through my church, and it was just like 24 hours. Yeah, you don't eat. Yeah, and it was like from like 8 a.m. to like 8 a.m. pretty much. And it was or it was 10 because I remember we had to like get up the next morning. Oh, and we 10 p.m.

SPEAKER_01 1:18:56

to 10 a.m. Yeah, and we Oh it's like 12 hours?

SPEAKER_02 1:18:59

No, 24. Sorry. Oh, okay. Yeah, no, you yeah, so it was it was 24 hours. We're tired, we're tired, full 24 hours, but and we like we slept on like cardboard boxes like outside because it was like we were trying to. Yeah, like we were trying to relate. Oh my god. And then we did like community outreach stuff like in the morning time before we came back to have food. But the point is is like they could we couldn't just go eat anything. Like they we had to have like they gave us like beans and like rice, but they only gave us like little amounts because it expands and your stomach is so constricted, constricted that like you'll get sick or you know it'll hurt really bad. So yeah, but with like Bruce, I was surprised because like she took her to like Italian, I think, and they have like lasagna. That's what I'm saying. She likes and noodles and stuff.

SPEAKER_01 1:19:51

So much food in her, and all I was waiting for was the reaction to the food. But I mean, thank God there was none. Yeah. Um, if this was like a real life story, I'm pretty sure she wouldn't have been able to eat.

SPEAKER_02 1:20:08

She would have thrown it out. And I'm sure like all the richness too, because like Italian food kit has like a lot of flavor, um high calories, not blank, high density, cheese, like that type of thing, and like carboil with all like the tomatoes.

SPEAKER_01 1:20:22

But like if I only had one complaint, okay, such a small complaint and only one in the book, that was the only time where I'm like, I don't think that that's how that would work.

SPEAKER_04 1:20:34

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:20:34

But it's okay. Like, that was literally the only thing where I was like, and I'm not even judging you, like, who fucking cares? Forget I even said anything. But that's the only thing where I was like, I think she would like straight up fucking die if she had that much food.

SPEAKER_02 1:20:50

Well, and and like even but Agnes says, like, you know, because she got clothes, but like even the clothes that she got were still like hanging off of her. Oh yeah. And so she says, like, you know what? You'll fill them out. I'm gonna fat. She's like, I'm feeding you. Like, I'm gonna make sure you're fed. Cause she's like, How old are you? And Ruth is like, I'm 21. And she's like, You don't look 21. You look 2011. I thought you were younger. She's like, We need to feed you. And she's like, and what the f she's looking at her hair and she's like, Oh, we could cut your hair, you know, like we'll we'll do if you look real pretty, probably you'll feel better with me. I'm going to take care of not mats.

SPEAKER_01 1:21:27

Well, they are mats, but like she probably had like straight up fucking dreads.

SPEAKER_02 1:21:31

Well, because they didn't have like running water where they lived in their particular apartment building. They had to share like a bathroom, like a bathhouse type situation with like a whole bunch of other people, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:21:42

Or three other families.

SPEAKER_02 1:21:44

But they had to like heat up their water on the stove and put it in the tub. But by the time they got into the tub, it was already cold. So it's like, yeah. Agnes takes Bruce to a hotel. She says, Hey, we're gonna go to the car. Yeah, we're gonna go to we're gonna live. I'm gonna take you to live at the estate. The estate Rosentue. The Rosenthuen. But she said, you know, it's a bit of a far drive, so we're gonna spend the night in this hotel, and then I'll take you home tomorrow. And so they get to the hotel. Agnes tells her, you know, make yourself at home, get comfortable. I'm gonna take a quick bath, you know, when we come out, you know, we'll we'll chat. Yeah, you know, I want to hear everything about each other. Yeah. And so Agnes comes out of the bath, she's like, everybody's relaxed, and she's sitting and she's she pretty much lays it out that well, she point blank asks Bruce, like, Were you at any point ever taken over by my husband? And Rus is like, no, I I wasn't. And she said, I know it. She said, She's like, I I kind of figured, and she and Roos says, like, how did you know? And she's kind of like, Well, I can see her. I can see her. And what is her name?

SPEAKER_01 1:23:00

And Rus is like, Are you fucking kidding me?

SPEAKER_02 1:23:03

Are you serious? And she's like, Yes, I can see your partner and your companion. And she said, Do you notice pretty much do you notice anything? Do you see mine? Do you see my companion? And Ruth at first is like, no, but then she's like, Okay, over there in that corner, focus on like that little kind of silhouette describe where he begins and his shape, and that's like how it locks for them almost, and then boom, it's like a full apparition.

SPEAKER_01 1:23:37

Yeah, right? Yeah, am I wrong? Or yeah, okay.

SPEAKER_02 1:23:40

That's pretty much how it goes down.

SPEAKER_01 1:23:43

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:23:43

And so they're like, Whoa, okay, we can see this.

SPEAKER_01 1:23:48

You're like, hey, you're that goat and dude that scared the shit out of you.

SPEAKER_02 1:23:52

And and she says, Well, this is Peter. This is my say hi Peter.

SPEAKER_01 1:23:57

Say hi, Ruth.

SPEAKER_02 1:24:00

And so they sit down and they go into like I cannot believe I found somebody. Somebody who also can see what I like, you know, I have a companion, you have your companion, and like she's like, I thought that I was she's like, I didn't even go to see my husband.

SPEAKER_01 1:24:20

I came to see you.

SPEAKER_02 1:24:23

And yeah, it's and you're just like nice because they have like they're like literally like a talk. Yeah. They sit down and Agnes kind of gives her her backstory. And so we find out that her dad, he's you know, a really rich, wealthy, and individual, white man, had an affair with from the Netherlands. From the Netherlands. He had an affair with an Indonesian woman in in Indonesia.

SPEAKER_01 1:24:51

In Indonesia, because they said the Dutch settled in Indonesia, and he was he was there for work, right? I believe he was there for work. Yeah, don't quote, don't yeah, don't quote us on that. We should know, but there's a lot of info in this book, you guys.

SPEAKER_02 1:25:10

Yeah, I mean, all we really know is that he had an affair. Agnes is a result of that affair.

SPEAKER_01 1:25:18

And and then Agnes was raised by her mother, no involvement from this wealthy do.

SPEAKER_02 1:25:25

From the father, yeah, up until wasn't her mom committed.

SPEAKER_01 1:25:30

Yeah, so the mom. I've I had just read it today, but I didn't understand a hundred percent the causing factor for why her mother did, but her mother wrote a suicide note, gave it to Agnes, sent Agnes to essentially where her dad was, and she committed suicide. So Agnes showed up to her dad, like, here, read this. He reads it. He's like, Oh, my mistress is dead. This is our love child. You come with me now.

SPEAKER_02 1:26:12

And she said that you know, for a couple years she stayed with him up until you know, people were questioning things, like it was a scandal, it was a very big scandal. And the fact that she's Indonesian, like half Indonesian, she doesn't look like everybody else, and she can't be passed off as like anything, like and the current wife and children. And there's yeah, there's no doubt that she does not belong in this whole thing. Yeah, everybody knew. But at least he didn't for the like he could have wrote her out, I guess.

SPEAKER_01 1:26:43

For the times because you have to think. She's what was it, 41?

SPEAKER_02 1:26:48

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:26:49

And this is in the 40s. So this is the early 1900s that this is happening. How easy it would have been for like a rich, wealthy white man in the Netherlands to like this young child who hopefully sh I'm hoping she spoke Dutch when she arrived, but like, regardless of that, but like it would have been really easy to like get rid of her, if you know what I'm saying. Yeah, and so much less just not get rid of and shun and like disown and not pay for anything, and so she was probably just feeling like fucking blessed, no matter what, yeah, you know, but anyway, sorry.

SPEAKER_02 1:27:36

So I mean he eventually he does send her off to boarding school, and these boarding schools are nuns, nuns, and again, she's still like the sore thumb where like everybody knows she's constantly trying to prove herself, and it's race, it's just straight up racism. Like everybody just shits on her because of her race, her background, it's her race and it's

SPEAKER_01 1:28:00

It's that she's like this love child that doesn't belong, and she she shouldn't be rich, wealthy, and prominent because she doesn't deserve it.

SPEAKER_03 1:28:10

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:28:11

And it's so it's fucked up. Fucked up because she does, and she's a beautiful person. I love Agnes. Agnes is amazing. So much. I love this book so much.

SPEAKER_02 1:28:23

And she was kind-hearted too. I mean, like, just love her. Even if it seemed like maybe it was a little selfish that she like took Ruse for herself. Like, I think she saw that Ruse was not in a good place. And she genuinely.

SPEAKER_01 1:28:36

She said, remember when they were at the hotel? Um, or maybe it was like out when they were shopping, it was before they got back to the house. She specifically like looked into Ruse's eyes and was like, if your place is not with me, if you find yourself not happy, or you want to be somewhere else and like find yourself, you're free to go. You're free to go. Like you can do whatever go and be whatever you want. I just, for the time being, I want to put some food in your belly, some meat on your bones, some clothes on your back, and a place for you to actually get some fucking rest. Yeah.

unknown 1:29:25

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:29:26

And it was very motherly. Like, forget about that entire like emotional and physical connection of the kiss and everything that took place at the seance. She had like shifted really into the gear of like she needs help. And I'm have the means to provide for her.

SPEAKER_02 1:29:52

Yeah, and Agnes's story is so sad because she goes into she goes into further detail about Thomas. Thomas, but also her time. Yeah, Peter. So how she met Peter. And she explains that when she was at these boarding schools, the older girls would do these initiations.

SPEAKER_01 1:30:12

Because she doesn't talk about Thomas for fucking ever.

SPEAKER_02 1:30:15

Yeah, she's very tight-lipped about it. She says that she doesn't like talking about it.

SPEAKER_01 1:30:19

I just need that uh my brain was like, yeah, no, say it. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:30:23

No, she she's very clear from the from the get-go from the get-go that like she doesn't like talking about Thomas. She's very much so in mourning, she's devastated, it just makes her sad, and she would rather just focus on her new friendship and Ruth and Ruth and Peter. And so she explains that when she was in boarding school, the older girls would do initiations, and the initiation was that you would have to go out into these woods, which were allegedly haunted.

SPEAKER_01 1:30:52

You know what it's like? Rushing at like a like a sorority.

SPEAKER_02 1:30:57

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:30:58

Or for yeah. Yeah, or like a fraternity.

SPEAKER_02 1:31:00

Yeah. So they they say that like you're supposed to go out into these woods and you're supposed to bring back like a um an object.

SPEAKER_01 1:31:08

An object from whatever they deem from like the other end of the forest that's like pitch black. And mind you, they're not allowed. Not only are they not allowed to like leave the convent like at night, but they're never allowed even during the day to go into the woods. Ever. It's like forbidden, grounds for removal. Yeah, it's like grounds for removal. Yeah. Immediately you go back home.

SPEAKER_02 1:31:33

Yeah, there was like this like story that like a woman or a young girl had gone in there and she tried to commit suicide by hanging by hanging, but it didn't work. And so like they had like set her up. Like in Japan, the suicide forest. And so Agnes goes out there and she does she's scared. Like she does get scared, and there's a point where she's like running and she trips and she like cracks her head, and so she's bleeding from her head. And then when she comes to there's Peter. Peter. And she assumes that that was like his resting place. And so when like her blood had dripped.

SPEAKER_01 1:32:15

Well, the blow in the fall boom was like the knock that woke him up. That like woke him up, yeah. From his slumber, because apparently they like are in these like deep sleep slumber states.

SPEAKER_02 1:32:29

Yeah. Until they're awoken. And so she bled and he drank her blood. Drank the blood and he and she named him.

SPEAKER_01 1:32:41

She yeah, and she she named him after a character in one of her favorite. Yeah, but I forget like how initially she named him like right away. If he his appearance reminded her. And then she's like, You look like Peter or some shit.

SPEAKER_02 1:33:05

I think it's also like the nature of the book itself. I believe it's about somebody who again, I might be butchering this. I need to do more research on this book itself because I haven't read it. Yeah. But it it's a very famous book, but I believe that the book, yeah. I believe that the book itself is about somebody who loses their minds, and that character was named Peter. Peter.

SPEAKER_01 1:33:26

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:33:26

And so she was kind of like, I might, I must be losing my mind. So you must be my Peter.

SPEAKER_01 1:33:31

You must be Peter, right? Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:33:32

And then he's like, oh. So he's like, You're mine now, like you're my buddy now.

SPEAKER_01 1:33:36

And she never put two and two together for how the companionship was made. How Ruth has put those pieces together. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:33:47

Yeah. Because she explains that Ruth died for like a long time.

SPEAKER_01 1:33:53

Like hundreds of years ago, like two or three hundred years ago.

SPEAKER_02 1:33:56

But like in the way that they describe Peter is fucking ancient. Yeah, like he's wearing like an old like military uniform. It's a name. No, like Annaki time. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:34:10

Like he's he's old. Before Egyptians, before before, because Rus thinks Ruth was from not even hundreds. She was really old too because bog bodies was like thousands of years ago. When when we're studying like bog bodies today, and like they're immaculately preserved, much like mummies. So think that kind of thing. Like Roos is that old. So Roos might be the one that's thousands of years old. And then she said Peter's like, we're talking about like bib before Christ, like BC old, which also is thousands of years as well, but like older.

SPEAKER_02 1:34:53

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:34:54

And he's fucking huge. Huge.

SPEAKER_02 1:34:58

He's very big. But he's a gentle giant. Like he is very lovey.

SPEAKER_01 1:35:02

He loves like sex and animals and he brings like little gifts to Agnes.

SPEAKER_02 1:35:09

And he he he starts bringing gifts to Roos too down the line. But he's very like kind of like almost shy, but he loves like to like kind of sit in the sunshine when there's sunshine.

SPEAKER_01 1:35:19

Yeah, he likes sunbates like a lizard on the body.

SPEAKER_02 1:35:22

But he's he's almost just more seen and not heard. It's absolutely talk. Very soft. Very, yeah. Only when only when Agnes. Yeah. Like. And so she kind of explains that like he followed her throughout, like she she bet him when she was 16. So like she's already got like the thing going with like her race and like 30 years her background and people just kind of like already like were shitty about her. Yeah, she's gonna be.

SPEAKER_01 1:35:52

But then she said that Peter made of another harder for her.

SPEAKER_02 1:35:57

And it wasn't until she really started she started blinking.

SPEAKER_01 1:36:01

Because she she just in her mind, she's like, Oh my god, are you fucking kidding me? Another thing, yeah, another thing for me. But it's not like she went around and like telling everybody because she she knew oh my god, if if I tell a singular soul about this, like it's gonna be bad news. I'm gonna get you know locked up in in the whatever it's called.

SPEAKER_02 1:36:25

Yeah, and she she that's silence, yeah. Yeah, but um, so yeah, she's had Peter for years, he's been a companion for her for a long time. They, you know, they love each other, they're good people, like they're good friends. Yeah, just like Ruth, like and Ruth. He's like part of me. I cannot, like, if I were to take them away, it's like cutting off an arm or a limb. Like, I cannot.

SPEAKER_01 1:36:48

That's like their soul.

SPEAKER_02 1:36:50

So Agnes kind of explains that, and then you know, Roos does give her her background where she's like, Yeah, mom, mama beat me, she expected me to do these things, and so they they pretty much just have like a good heart to heart, almost like pimped her out. Yeah, they have like a good heart to heart, and throughout all of this, we do get like little snip like snippets of where we find out about this guy named Mr. Mesmin, who just was we gathered that he's that he was a bad person, and every time they think about it, it's bad memories, and it sounds like up until this point up until this point, we know that Ruth did something to Mr. Mesmin. We don't know what provoked it, we don't know what she did specifically. We know that like she caused like significant bodily harm. Yeah, but we don't know why can't talk anymore, right? Yeah, we don't know why what the circumstances were, what happened. We know that we know that mama knew about it and mama had no sympathy for Roosevelt. So we just know that there's like kind of in the background. Yeah, so excuse me. So we know that that's in the background, and they you know they spend the night talking and getting conversation because they finally feel like they can just really let themselves go and be free with someone who understands what the other person is going through.

SPEAKER_01 1:38:16

And they just but then they're also like, how lucky are we that we have at least them? Yeah, and now we have each other.

SPEAKER_02 1:38:25

They're gonna they drive to the estate the next day, and that's kind of where part one ends. Um before we like, I guess, like wrap up. We I do want to touch on those notes that were written by the doctor. Because at the end of like every other chapter or so, there is like it's written like a case study or like a case file, and it's from the perspective of Dr. Montague, and he's writing down his notes, and it's like an interview style. Yeah. Of it's really cool. Him interviewing Roos. And so he has brought in.

SPEAKER_01 1:39:05

So it's like first case episode, second case episode patient R, a case story inhabited by another.

SPEAKER_02 1:39:13

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:39:14

D equals doctor, P equals patient, and yeah, so it's like, and then he has his notes to himself and kind of like the goals for what like he wishes to uncover, discover how he's gonna approach her, her reactions prior, and then and then it goes into like their actual dialogue. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:39:40

And right off the rip, we discover that like he does kind of he does believe that she is a little bit insane because she's got a ghost, a ghost companion. Again, like like I said, we're reading this from the perspective of like talking about the homosexuality, yeah. Telling the story to the doctor, but also it's not until like the end of part two that we kind of come to like present time or part two going into part three, like halfway through, or we kind of get into present time where she's not really telling the story. Correct. Yeah, yeah, so she and then she's more so telling the story to us, yes, right? Yeah, and so it's kind of interesting because it's done so well. So he, you know, in the beginning he's just kind of he's trying to feel her out, he's trying to understand, okay, what's your story? Yeah, who's Ruth, and he does reveal that Agnes is dead. Yes. And that there was another body to be found. Yeah. And so he's like, we're trying to understand why we found you.

SPEAKER_01 1:40:48

Why did you kill Agnes? Yeah. They said something immediately about the um like the state of her book her remains. How that the other was that Willamine's? Yeah. Yeah. The state of the body in the yard, which I believe is Willamine's, from what we know at the very end, which we're gonna go over it, but like we wanna spoil you when the time's right. Yeah but like the state of that body, so I'm pretty sure that's Willamine's because there's no secret about that. And then Agnes's two, but her body wasn't outside, it was in the room. Yeah. Right? So Yeah, so there the brown glass wasn't brought up not until Twitter, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:41:39

Okay. So so they do so that's what it was.

SPEAKER_01 1:41:42

Bite marks.

SPEAKER_02 1:41:43

Yeah, bite marks.

SPEAKER_01 1:41:44

He says that there are bite marks, so he's like, he's like, you like have got to be talking about cannibalism and all the same.

SPEAKER_02 1:41:50

Yeah, he's like, he's like, there's something you like I need to understand because you're gonna insane, you're not gonna be fit to like go to jail. Yeah, like you, he's like, you need to, I need to understand your your story, like everything. So she's telling him everything, and he's kind of poking holes in some of like her her stories, right? He's like, he's trying to take like not quite understanding. Yeah, he's trying to take like the the the psychiatrist rather or he's like he's like, okay, well, he's like, you do understand that people that have like the delusions are like labeled as like schizophrenic, and he's and so he's kind of like leaning towards the use of like academic and like level like rational mind to be like there are reasons there are things that we know now that explain what you're going through, and she's like you're not understanding me.

SPEAKER_01 1:42:51

He does I will say he's he's sweet about it, like he's very protecting. He's very kind, and by the end of part one, he even announces that he's growing fond of her and like he almost wants to protect her.

SPEAKER_02 1:43:08

And he so he and he fully believes she believes what's going on. And we do realize too that she said like he says something about like Ruth and and Ruth is kind of like, I'm not talking to Ruth right now. Like she is like, she's like, she's like she tells her to shut the fuck up. Yeah, she's like shut up, and he's like, Don't talk to me like that. She's like, I wasn't talking to you. And she and he's like looking at like the direction where she's like glaring. So obviously something happened, like Ruth did something to piss off Ruth, which is like at this point, we've never seen Ruth ever say anything negative about she's obsessed with her. She loves Ruth. It's her it's her little baby. It's like her yoke mate.

SPEAKER_01 1:43:50

So do you ever think like just a side question? Do you ever think it would have been cool for Ruth to try to describe Ruth to the therapist while sitting there to see if she could get him to see her?

SPEAKER_02 1:44:17

I feel like I feel like she probably did that on purpose because she like can we define how horrifying that is. I want to say it's like in that flash chat, like we have to give it to you.

SPEAKER_01 1:44:32

It is. Can you read it? I'll I'll try to find it. Yeah, you try to find it too because we need to like you guys. It is fucking horrifying. But you don't know like she's a little witty bitty bitty.

SPEAKER_02 1:44:48

I think I found it. Yeah, I found it.

SPEAKER_01 1:44:51

And it changes, it changes quite often. Like, she can change her appearance like each day. She looks like overall, she looks like Ruth all the time. But there are changes, little details. She can be have like almost like a bigger personality, her body will be bigger that day. Or if she's more like mellow, she'll be like tinier, and then her eyes and yeah, go ahead, you can read it.

SPEAKER_02 1:45:19

So Ruth is in that little room underneath the floorboards with me. In the dark, her eyes sometimes flash green like that of a cat or fox. At other times, she doesn't have eyes at all, just skin growing over the place where her empty socket should be. Her skin changes all the time, too. Sometimes it's the warm brown of an acorn, but occasionally it's black. Not in the way that some people are, but black like certain types of wood with a grayish tint to it. The one time I manage to smuggle a flashlight down with me and shine it on her face. I see that her jaw is horribly dislocated. It hangs open and crooked. No wonder she can't speak. Only moan. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:46:02

But she helps her fix her jaw and she can speak. There's more though. Is it was that it for that part?

SPEAKER_02 1:46:09

Yeah, that's it for that part. But she, you know, as like as like the book goes on, she does say like she does have like little pieces of like mold, like that's like growing on her. Like she very much so looks like because the way that Ruth or the way that Ruth like kind of assumes that she her body is in a bog somewhere, is that she has the coloring of a bog, like very like nature, like brown, brown, you know, greens, like those kinds of textures. And she says that like she feels like when she was she was murdered, she's like, there's she was murdered, there's no way that she wasn't a big thing.

SPEAKER_01 1:46:44

She thinks she's a bog body and that she was ritualistically sacrificed. Yeah, so she must have been very special, but Ruth remembers nothing of her past life, that's why she doesn't look human. She can't recall being human. Yeah, like she's been and she was asleep for so long. Yeah, so it reminds me of the grudge, like that.

SPEAKER_02 1:47:16

Yeah, she clicks and ticks because her jaw. Yeah. And then like she like her body like twitches. It's kind of like like you know, um you know those dancers that are really good, like they're gonna be like, you know, in Suicide Squad? Um, the witch. You know how that one girl turns into like the witch, and like she like comes out and she's like all like I'm gonna be honest with you, I don't remember much of Suicide Squad. I'll have to show you. It's so cool, like the way that they do it, and she's just like very like shifty and like kind of like glitchy almost. Yeah. Like that's how like I took it. But like she gets described like throughout the book where she has like little tidbits that she like brings more in. Um same with like Peter. Well, like she'll say, like, oh, like the he looks like like the the stuff on his throat is like mossy and like green and whatever. So it's like it's just it's really interesting, especially like depending on like if she's like pissed or something like that. Like her appearance does change and she gets like more scarier, I guess. But like I always just kind of pictured her kind of just like this, like on the cover. It's like, but I also kind of wonder if that has to do with the human.

SPEAKER_00 1:48:33

I think this is Ruth.

SPEAKER_02 1:48:35

I thought about like the statues too, though. Really? Yeah, because I'm like, is that like kind of what that has to do with two?

SPEAKER_01 1:48:41

Oh, like the saint?

SPEAKER_02 1:48:43

But I always just kind of figure just because like you don't see her eyes, and so it's like she's very much so like she's got like the grayish tint, but it's kind of like a mixture of that. Yeah, I definitely don't think it can be and like the jaw is like crooked, and like so yeah, it's just it's it's very interesting. But yeah, so like I mean, kind of going back to those notes while you try to see if you can find any more of that, but um he, you know, towards the end, he's pretty much leaning towards like, oh yeah, this girl is not fit to stay on trial, she's not fit to go to jail, she needs to be in a mental Well, it was like I have more that I need to uncover first, but so far. But he's he's yeah, like I said, he's he's just leaning towards like, yeah, no, like you are not like a normal thinking person. And he and he does like try to poke holes in like because he thinks that Agnes He's gonna like catch her in a and he also thinks that Agnes kind of manipulated Bruce's like because Bruce was so she didn't have any kind of street smarts or like you know, knowledge of like the world and how people are. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:49:53

So he thinks that she's been locked in a fucking floorboard.

SPEAKER_02 1:49:57

And he thinks that Agnes also had the same. Same like you know delusions on a different level, and he even like calls like up like the nuns that she used to go to school with, and you know, he calls up all these places that she used to be involved with, and they kind of poke holes in the stories uh that Agnes told um Ruth about her life and the things that she went through and how she came to know Peter and everything else, and so as the story goes on, which we'll get into more during our next like the next parts of this book, um, you discover that some of the things aren't really adding up as to what Agnes says, and there is like a small part where Ruth is kind of like, Well, she didn't tell me that, you know.

SPEAKER_01 1:50:40

Yeah. Okay, so really quick, there's just a mention here of Ruth. If Ruth had been a heathen priestess dating from the first century after Christ, I thought roughly right, then Peter might have been a Roman soldier come to conquer hundreds of years before she had first drawn breath. So for age-wise. And mottled at his throat, perhaps from a particular kind of mold. His lips were perpetually drawn back from his two big mouth, revealing a row of sharp little teeth. So pretty. No wonder I had thought his grin wolfish. He had

The Collectives Closing

SPEAKER_01 1:51:37

forgotten all sense of proportion. That explained his long limbs, so thin that the joints bulged and the hands large as oven mittens. Well, I suppose, you know, just as we go, we'll update on their because yeah, on their change. Yeah, because their appearance just changes, which is so cool. Yeah. It's like a horrifying chameleon. Chameleon of horries. I have no idea what I'm saying. So yeah, but yeah. But yeah, so we'll we'll just we'll update you, we'll find it, and so yeah. It's really cool though, it's interesting. Like, never in a million years would you think like something that would literally cause you fucking nightmares would be so sweet. Would be so warm and comforting.

SPEAKER_02 1:52:24

They're so sweet. And just I guess to kind of wrap up with these notes, the way that like the doctor kind of will what's the word? He'll kind of logic away a lot of like what she's talking about, or like use his like doctor background, like his background with like psychiatry and everything, like he knows all of like the diseases of the mind and everything, and so he's kind of like explaining, like, well, actually, like this could be what that is, you know. And there is so there is a point where you kind of question some of what Ruth is saying, even though you're reading from her like perspective, but then you're also remembering, like, okay, you're hearing the story that she's telling you. It's not even like you're seeing it from her eyes necessarily. Yeah, like I felt like I was reading this from an outsider's perspective as her telling me the story, yes, right? Yeah, and not like first person, like with like play nice, right? Right, she's like we're reading it from her, like we are her going through that.

SPEAKER_01 1:53:21

There's so many things along the way where you're like, these things wouldn't be possible if they didn't exist, yeah. And so we know as going out and buying this book that Ruth and Peter are real, right? But when you are reading it, you get the validation, and so you're just like waiting for the therapist, hopefully, to catch up. Because I'm like, there's no way she's crazy and this didn't exist. Yeah. But it does tie into the further we go in, and obviously, this is like touching closer to part four, where you know, he even brings up all of the mental health issues that Agnes had, her prior admissions into psychiatric wards, her diagnoses, and how they those could actually feed off of each other and cause exacerbation of those mental properties within between the two. And then she even is like, well, what about Willamine? And he's like, actually, a third person can get involved as well. And so there's always some like logical explanation for it.

SPEAKER_02 1:54:38

And so, yeah, you kind of sometimes are like, is she unreliable as like a narrator? Like, am I I feel terrible for even thinking about that? Yeah, you do.

SPEAKER_01 1:54:48

You're like, uh no, I believe you 100% believe you.

SPEAKER_02 1:54:52

You know, before we go into part two, you know, they are literally pulling up to the house. Yeah. So we'll we'll get into the estate. We're gonna meet Will. Will I mean fucking bitch? I can't even.

SPEAKER_01 1:55:07

I literally have never fucking hated a bitch so much in my life where I'm like, fucking die already from your fucking TV, you sick cunt. She's insane. So I don't use that word lightly. That's not what I fucking throw around all the time.

SPEAKER_02 1:55:23

So yeah, I'm excited to come back for part two and get into that because shit just keeps it just gets crazier.

SPEAKER_01 1:55:30

Well, the dread is officially setting in, and we're only at the beginning.

SPEAKER_02 1:55:37

We'll see you in the next part of the story. Until then, stay cozy, stay spooky.

SPEAKER_01 1:55:42

Remember, some stories are meant to haunt you. Bye. Bye.