Architecture, Mentorship, and the Courage to Begin: Pierre McKell Architects Shares Their Story

In this episode, AH&L Editorial Director Lauren Iverson sits down with architects Connor McKell Bingham and Jacques Pierre Levet, co-founders of Pierre McKell Architects, to explore the experiences, influences, and relationships that shaped their approach to residential design. From their very different upbringings—Connor's immersive education at the Frank Lloyd Wright School of Architecture and Jacques' roots in Southeast Louisiana—we discuss the enduring appeal of classical homes, the importance of designing for longevity, and the mentors who helped shape their professional outlook.

Connor and Jacques also share the story behind launching their own firm despite never having worked together on the same projects beforehand. Their conversation reveals how contrasting design perspectives can become a strength, why entrepreneurship often requires a leap of faith, and how great architects learn to solve problems beyond the drawing board. The result is an insightful discussion about partnership, practice, and creating homes with lasting soul and purpose.

What You’ll Hear on This Episode:

• 00:30 Welcome & Introduction
• 01:00 From Louisiana to Colorado, Connor and Jacques share their early interest in architecture and talk the soul of classical homes
• 05:45 Connor and Jacques never worked on the same projects before starting a business together. How did they trust it was meant to be? 
• 08:00 A maximalist meets a classic minimalist... how do they operate together on a project?
• 13:15 Growing up in Southeast Louisiana, Jacques shares what a generational effect taught him about aging in place
• 15:15 As the last undergraduate at the Frank Lloyd Wright School of Architecture, Connor talks his immersive college experience
• 18:15 Design education and the influence professionals can have on students
• 23:00 Connor and Jacques' Historical Concepts mentors, Jim Strickland and Andrew Cogar, are problem solvers who taught them to think outside the box
• 27:30 How do you know you're ready to start your own firm? Connor and Jacques share their parting advice (Hint: It really is a leap of faith) 

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Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:32

Welcome back to In Residence. Today's guests represent a new generation of architectural voices, thoughtful, collaborative, and deeply attuned to both tradition and evolution. The duo behind Pierre Mikhail architects, Jacques-Pierre Levet, and Connor Mikhail Bingham are building a practice rooted in contrast and balance where differing perspectives don't compete, they sharpen the work. Come on in and hear their story. Connor, Jacques, so excited to have you here today. Thank you for joining us on In Residence. How are you doing? Doing well.

SPEAKER_04 1:01

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:01

It's a gloomy day for a podcast, but we're excited to have you here and bring a little sunshine to the day.

SPEAKER_04 1:06

Oh, it'll be fun.

SPEAKER_01 1:07

Now, this is a very big year for y'all. It's your first year in business with, you know, Pierre McHell. And um, you've just been named one of our futures of design at Atlanta Homes and Lifestyles magazine. I know there's a big award that Connor, you will be winning as well. And we're gonna get into all of that within the conversation later. So, how are you feeling in your first year here?

SPEAKER_04 1:31

The fact that it's been a year is mind-blowing, but it's great.

SPEAKER_03 1:35

You know, we will we launched May 5th last year, and so it's been just a whirlwind and very, very quick, which I think is good that it feels that way. It's just been really fun. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:44

That's what they say when you do what you love, it goes by so fast, right? Whatever the cliche saying is, and I feel like it's it is so cliche, but it makes so much sense um when you do that. So I want to start the conversation a little bit by going back and learning more about your origin stories, because obviously um you're you're making a name for yourself in the world of architecture now. You've had plenty of experience under other really well-known firms, but take us back kind of the to be or to the beginning here, where you guys really started to take interest in architecture and how that evolved over time. Jock, why don't you kick us off?

SPEAKER_04 2:18

Yeah, sure. So um I grew up in Southeast Louisiana, so was surrounded by historic houses, um you know, just outside of New Orleans and experiencing the city a lot as well. Uh so I really always had an interest in it uh from an early, early age. Um, and you know, environment is everything has had a huge impact on how I see design and experience it.

SPEAKER_01 2:42

I love that. Connor, what about you?

SPEAKER_03 2:45

It's interesting. I mean, similarly, it's just something that's always been of interest, but then the kind of the shift of this is something that could be my life, uh, was I think definitely tied to um a home that my parents purchased in Golden, Colorado. Um, is a beautiful, like 1908 Victorian little bungalow, um, surrounded by nothing but new architecture, and it's like in the heart of a um college town, and it just was so cool to kind of transform time and go into this building and see how people used to live, and it was different, it felt different, it was intriguing. And um, we were renovating a kitchen, um, and then just kind of working a lot in the yard, and I just I could see it, and that this is in high school, I could just see the potential of the home. I was like, man, I can do this. This is incredible. I love this, it's energizing, it's motivating. And I think that was really where it clicked for me as like this could be my my career path. Yeah, mine was a little later.

SPEAKER_01 3:46

I love how you know classical homes and architecture carries this air to it because we had an interview with Norman Askins for the podcast as well, and he was kind of saying that when you step into these homes, it really just feels like this presence with the classical details, and there's so much to look at. And so hearing you say that is that kind of similar when you're in this Victorian home and you're seeing these things. What about it is really clicking as you're looking at the details? What are you loving about that?

SPEAKER_03 4:14

Well, yeah, I mean, I I grew up in suburbia, so I had like a watered-down version of architecture, and so being able to step back in time where like true crafts people built the home and you can feel the detail, you can feel the care. And it is there's a big difference between the soul of a historic home and kind of a tract house. And I think that is we care about that soul, we want to like inject that into all of our work and make sure that the that that's experienced by the users, and it just it is transformative to be able to be in a place in a space that is designed. Um, and we we take note of it, and we hope other people do too.

SPEAKER_01 4:55

100%.

SPEAKER_04 4:56

And with older homes too, you know, there's a lot of great architectural details and things to look at, obviously. But if a home has been around for 100, 150 years, it's had multiple generations of the same family, and perhaps different families, so you see how the home adapts or doesn't adapt. And so you get to learn those lessons as well, right?

SPEAKER_01 5:17

And I I relate to that so much when you say you grew up in suburbia because I grew up in the Midwest in Iowa. We did not have any Philip Shutzee houses, Jimmy Means, anything like that around. Um, and so people ask similarly to maybe you guys of, oh, when did you develop this passion? It was definitely later in life, like Jacques said. Um, but how lucky are we here in Atlanta to have the houses that we do and the inspiration that that carries throughout? So um now you guys obviously are in business together now. You had to have met at some point in time. Tell us a little bit more about how your paths intersected.

SPEAKER_04 5:54

Yeah, so uh we both started working at historical concepts. Uh I was there just a little bit before Connor. Um, we surprisingly never worked on any projects together. We weren't in the same team or anything like that.

SPEAKER_01 6:07

Um you saw each other at the office, right? At least something.

SPEAKER_04 6:12

So not working on the same projects perhaps led us to have more conversations and kind of just the back and forth. Um so much more of a um a friendship than a working relationship at that point. But you kind of can really dig into uh the nitty-gritty that way.

SPEAKER_01 6:27

Now, when did you realize then that your creative instincts kind of melded well enough to start your own firm together then? Because, like you said, you didn't work on any projects together. Clearly, you were bumping elbows enough and we're friends and such like that. But how did you know that, oh, we in our different styles and experiences could actually come together and create something really amazing?

SPEAKER_03 6:49

Well, I think I think the the benefit to us actually not having been in the same studio or prod like on the same project is that we're both a little bit removed from each other's work. And so we were able to be um critical, candid. That's much better. That's the polite way to say it, right? Um where I mean it we could just have real conversations. I was like, man, I wish it would have gone this way, or you know, I really liked how that turned out. I wish, I wish our studio did this, or I wish like we could, you know, it was just a lot of dreaming and and thinking aloud. Um and we didn't really have to critique the other person too heavily, or like yeah, have that push and pull. So it was open.

SPEAKER_04 7:31

Yeah, and I can't say that there was a a moment, honestly. It was just over the course of you know 10 years really of conversations. Um, Connor and I uh are both um you know passionate about teaching and things like that. So going to different universities and just having the discussions and just seeing how our different aesthetics kind of inform those conversations.

SPEAKER_01 7:53

Absolutely. Well, I want to talk a little bit about those different aesthetics because you did an interview with us at Atlanta Homes and Lifestyles for your Futures of Design article that we had put out, and you had mentioned that you guys have different design personalities. Um they're a little contradictory, maybe in your own words, not mine, um, but it's in a really complimenting way. So I know Jacques, you kind of lean a little bit more maximalist in that sense. And Connor, you're a little bit more classic minimalist, um, as you would describe it. So tell me more about what shaped these tastes and how you feel that they complement each other in the projects that you're working on.

SPEAKER_04 8:30

Yeah, I think environment has a huge impact on that as well. Um, so like again, growing up um South Louisiana, around a lot of historic homes, uh I grew up on a farm. Um, that farm existed for like 200 years or so. So there was a lot of accumulation of things. Um and I always had an interest in objects. So having just a mass amount of objects from you know different time periods and being able to learn about them always intrigued me. And the texture of old houses, you know, just plaster, things like that. Uh something I grew up with and now I find very appealing.

SPEAKER_03 9:08

Yeah, so I'm opposite. Um yeah, I uh growing up uh we would go visit my mom's parents quite a bit, and they're they're both they were both Swedish. And so their design aesthetic was very streamlined, very um, you know, a really restricted palette. And so we have like soft, you know, lighter wood tones and blues and whites, and you know, it was just it was all intentional, but very sleek. And um not necessarily modern by any means, like they're very traditional shapes to their furniture. If you think about like Gustavian furniture a design aesthetic, that that's ornate, but it's simplified, it is kind of refined in that that sense. And so I did, I just it was sort of the first uh exposure to design, like true um classical work. And I was like, yeah, that this is this is nice, like there's interest, there's enough detail to like intrigue you, but it is yeah, it's clean, it's restrained and uh complimenting in in an elegant way. Yeah, absolutely.

SPEAKER_01 10:14

Interesting. Okay, so what kinds of challenges are you running in then? Because I think maximalist and like classically restrained and elegant, and then you try to work on the same project together. How does that work?

SPEAKER_04 10:24

Well, I think that the important thing about that is that we can both see the quality and design on either extremes. Um, just because we prefer to surround ourselves in a certain way, you know, for our own home, say, that doesn't mean that is appropriate for whatever project we're working on. So, you know, we can have those conversations and find that happy middle ground, if it which usually it is a middle ground on where it is and uh what fits where and you know what um amount of texture, how cleanliness it needs to be, whatever it is.

SPEAKER_03 10:58

Yeah, I think I it's so easy for us as designers to fall into a trap of repetition. Um, and just because it it is easy, we're like we know what looks good and feels good to us, and we can do it and do it and do it, and it's successful on its own, but you know, that does fall flat eventually. And so I think for us it is just like we have a constant desire to like improve upon and to find what is right for the scenario, not just apply our own uh take or perspective and just kind of have that be the end result every time. I think we there's there's intrigue and there's um interest to the dichotomy that we both really value.

SPEAKER_04 11:39

Yeah. I would say um, you know, a number of architects have um a look for lack of a better term. Um, and I think we enjoy having that variety, uh, whether it's you know because of the place, the client, and the combination of you know everything else that's going on. Uh so those conversations are really important to achieve that.

SPEAKER_01 11:58

Well, I was gonna say it's gotta keep the day-to-day even more interesting, though.

SPEAKER_03 12:02

Plenty of arguments, yeah. Yeah, our our Instagram feed to each other is uh quite interesting. Absolutely opposing. Um I think the other thing that is really critical for us is that you know we very rarely have a singular individual as a client. It's a family, a couple, a partner, and a review board. A review board. Um and never do those people have the same view. And so I think we can kind of like pawn the other person off if we need to, and just in terms of like finding the balance or hearing the client. We'll go away from a meeting and be like, I heard something different than you, and then we're like, okay, why? And what what it what was our takeaway? And like, where can we find what the actual solution is, not just hear what we hear for ourselves.

SPEAKER_01 12:48

That's so funny because I've done plenty of panels where I feel like the designer, whoever's on it, is talking about oh, the wife will say one thing and then the husband says another, and you hear these different things. And so you guys can kind of tag team it in that way, having your different perspectives and such. And I'm sure that that actually aids you so much in more ways than one. So that's fascinating. Now, Jacques, I want to go back to the point that you have mentioned already is that you grew up in kind of rural areas um in near New Orleans and Louisiana and such like that. So this feels really distinct and kind of interesting. I know there's a lot of um beautiful homes in that area, and you had that kind of influence from a young age, but growing up around that environment, did that teach you anything about materials and aging in place, um, beauty, grace, all the above? Tell us about that.

SPEAKER_04 13:43

Oh goodness, that's a big, big question. Yeah. I mean, honestly, all the above, Southeast, you know, Louisiana is a harsh climate. So just seeing how things age and what's appropriate and learning the lessons of a vernacular architecture, like a true place-based architecture and what benefits that can have. Um, but also, like we kind of mentioned briefly, I grew up in a pretty typical um home right next to my grandparents' home that they built. Oh, which was fun. Right next to the home that my grandfather grew up in.

SPEAKER_01 14:15

Oh my gosh.

SPEAKER_04 14:16

And so, you know, really seeing that kind of generational effect for a singular home, but also for you know, kind of a wider view, that was a huge lesson. Um, and seeing how the homes live, uh, age, entertain. You know, you know, South is um, you know, they're proud of their homes and proud of their places and enjoy sharing it. Um, so seeing how that really functions.

SPEAKER_01 14:39

Well, you see that so much these days where these families are almost like family compounds, right? You you've got their the parents and then the grandparents and then the in-laws suites, and then the kids eventually grow up and they want a home of their own as well. And so there's a longevity there that I'm sure it sounds like you've learned from a young age.

SPEAKER_04 14:57

And I would say that um having clients come to you with that mentality is kind of on the rare side. You have to mention that to them. You know, there's lots of times when they're talking about the nursery, for instance, and we're like, oh, it's hard to tell you, but when this house is complete, your child's not gonna be a nursery anymore.

SPEAKER_01 15:13

There'll be no crib in there.

SPEAKER_04 15:15

We need to we need to think a little further out here.

SPEAKER_01 15:18

Right, right. Well, you do the best you can, I suppose, in those instances and just hope that they hear you. I love it. Now, Connery, your path is also unique because you were the last undergraduate class at the Frank Lloyd Wright School of Architecture, which is so cool. Um, tell me more about this learning experience. How did this shape the architects that you are today? And just what was that kind of like while you went through it?

SPEAKER_03 15:40

Yeah, it was an incredibly unique, wonderful experience. Um, being the last undergrad to go through prior to the school transitioning to entirely a graduate program. Um, I was the the sole individual in my class.

SPEAKER_01 15:55

Oh my gosh, you were wait, you were the only one?

SPEAKER_03 15:57

I was the only one.

SPEAKER_01 15:59

Whoa.

SPEAKER_03 15:59

And so I was in classes with um with graduate level students, and um the the school itself was very small, is very small, and so the student-to-faculty ratio was one to one. It was just a a wonderful group of people who were fully committed to this world of architecture and design, and you had to live on campus. So we lived and studied in uh Franklin Dright's second and third home and studios in Spring Green, Wisconsin, and Scottsdale, Arizona. And I mean, so just being able to be surrounded in that uh immersive environment, and I don't know if any of you are familiar with those, but they're they're two sides of a coin, they're like completely different spaces and design qualities, aesthetics, um, but they're representative of the place. And um I it was just great to be uh taught by the buildings that were there, it was great to be taught by the students that were there that were, you know, years ahead of me and their career development, and also the faculty that was there. It was it was really, really cool.

SPEAKER_01 17:04

That's amazing. Do you feel like there's any lessons or so, like takeaways from that time during that program that you're still utilizing to this day? I'm sure there's plenty, but is there anything that sticks out?

SPEAKER_03 17:14

Absolutely. We talked so much about the pedagogy of architecture. I've become so annoyingly invested in um the education of architecture and how that is um changed over the years. We used to be um a profession that was taught by doing and taught by mentorship, and now that's transitioned to uh kind of a separation of schooling then practice, and it never was that way, and I think that's why we have such a uh divide between the educational or the academic path and then the practice path. And I really think that Jacques and I both are so motivated and committed to kind of blending that back together. Like we should always be learning while we're practicing. Absolutely, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 18:03

Um and vice versa, just giving people opportunities to see see work and how you know what we do on a daily basis.

SPEAKER_01 18:11

Absolutely. Well, you both do different teaching things. I mean, Jacques, you were saying earlier today that you will go into some classes in schools and and do seminars with them. Connor, I know you do a lot of work at the ICAA and various things there too. Um, tell us more about kind of those experiences and what that means to you to be able to, you know, as you're kind of ramping up in your in your singular career in your own firm, what it means to instill some things into these younger generations that are excited about architecture. Yeah. Um I go first.

SPEAKER_04 18:42

There's so many talks. Um goodness. So um I uh so my undergrad was in engineering, uh, biomedical engineering. Um so I had a different path. What? I know. Yeah. It's so smart. Um my path was a little bit more.

SPEAKER_01 18:57

Give me a few details here because we gotta we gotta learn more about that.

SPEAKER_04 19:01

Um I mean, I you know, coming from high school, I was always interested in architecture, things like that, and preservation, design. But the classical and traditional world of design is not apparent um at most most schools. And I was interested in lots of things. So I went into engineering because I was not interested in what the architecture school was doing. Um after that, I actually went to medical school for a couple of years, and it was at that point where a couple of key people just uh introduced me to this world and showed me that this work exists. Um I say that to kind of really get back to your question. Just being able to go to these universities and talk to the students, say, this is the work that we do in this classical and traditional realm. If you have an interest in it, like calm great lesson learn some more. And even if you don't, if that's not what you're gonna do for your career, just to be introduced to it and have a slight understanding of what's happening.

SPEAKER_01 20:01

Absolutely. How about you, Connor? How is that influence that you're giving to these um or having on maybe this even younger generation than y'all are? What does that mean to you in in those instances?

SPEAKER_03 20:14

Yeah, I uh a very similar um perspective. You know, it is it's interesting. I for my graduate degree, I went to the University of Colorado, Denver, and so that was um uh it's just a traditional school, um, in terms not traditional in terms of classical, but just kind of the what you'd expect from a modern architecture uh uh education system. Um and you know, there was a divide, there was a lot of uh emphasis behind um innovation. And unfortunately, I feel like the request of a lot of the students today is to innovate without any foundation. So, how can you innovate if you don't have the basic foundational tools to innovate with? And so I think for us, working with the ICAA, having the opportunity to go to several of these state schools, and I mean, we also work with professionals who are have that gap in in their education, and we work with um uh the New Heights program here in Atlanta and also in New York. Um, and so that's with high school and middle school, and just giving the chance. Like I feel like most architectural students just don't even have the the opportunity to hear the conversation, and so if it's great. We love we really do love working with the ICAA and supporting their mission, and um, yeah, it's fun and it's great to work with with everyone there.

SPEAKER_04 21:43

Yeah, and I think Connor and I both had have had some key mentors like involved in our trajectories, um, and not saying that you know we're gonna be pivotal on someone's life, but just be like you may be, you know, I don't know, possibly, but just to say, like, you know, this is a realm and invite them to our world so they can meet. Meet other people and just have a greater chance at finding something that they truly enjoy doing.

SPEAKER_01 22:06

Well, that's what it's all about, too, though, isn't it? Connections and and meeting people and just getting your feet wet in the industry, and then you never know who you're gonna meet, like you said, who's gonna have an influence on you and really expand your your breadth of knowledge there.

SPEAKER_03 22:21

Um Yeah, I that that does feel so true and critical for me as well. I just feel like some of these mentors, it's um not just the exposure, but man, just the faith or belief in you to just be like, no, you can you can do anything, you can, you know, just try. Or like I think we are all so limiting in our own perspective. Yeah. Um, and just to have someone there to just be like, nope, just do it. You'll be fine. It's great. And then that that motivation is is really impactful.

SPEAKER_01 22:50

Right. Well, those people have done it themselves at some point in time too. So they're almost like a safety net to encourage you to be like, no, you're gonna be fine. It's so scary, but you will be fine. I love that. Well, speaking of, you know, mentors and such like that, you guys have worked for some really incredible architects in your past before launching your own firm, for example, historical concepts, who I am such a big fan of. Um, tell me more about your time at this firm, learning under the likes of Andrew Cogar, Jim Strickland, um, and all the likes of the people who taught you.

SPEAKER_03 23:23

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 23:24

Yeah. So um start, yeah, start with Jim. Yeah, it kind of goes back to um where Connor and Connor and I were on different teams. So I was working under Jim Strickland, who's the founder of the firm. And my gosh, the um imagination and just the ability to see opportunities for design in anything with him was phenomenal. That was a huge lesson. I mean, regardless if we were working on just a garden shed or you know, a larger house, we were trying to figure out how we can make that great, what's exciting about it uh you know, that the client will um connect with. And gosh, we would spend so much time just thinking and thinking and rethinking as the project goes along, which is honestly another huge lesson, um, to never stop that kind of design process, even when walls are up, which is sometimes a little scary. Um, yeah, I mean, just great person to learn from.

SPEAKER_01 24:20

Well, Jim, for I mean, while we're on that subject, I love Jim Strickland. I think he is such a fascinating, fabulous person. And um, he kind of has an interesting origin story too, as well, where he didn't have maybe that proper training and the influence that he's had on so many people is so vast. And so I love hearing that and um all the things that you were able to learn and kind of bites that you could take from the experience. So, Connor, what about you? What was your experience like?

SPEAKER_03 24:47

Well, I think I very similarly, just like such a soft spot in my heart for um for Jim, just such a big personality, so much like care for the world in general and excitement for the people that he works with, um, and for his clients. He's such a good dreamer, and so uh very much had that experience with Jim on the periphery. Um my day-to-day working uh historical concepts with was with Andrew Kogar, and you know, he he has that same um kind of charisma that Jim has. Um, but he is he is a doer, and he um you know he he's a great leader. I learned so much from from him, and I think uh his ability to kind of serve as a pivotal um figure on a project is is really great. He just valued the team, and I don't just mean the architectural team, like the interior designers, the landscape team. Man, he he saw everyone and heard their vision and worked really hard to make the best of the project that it could be. Um, and he's a problem solver, you know. We are in a field where there are always problems, there are always issues, there nothing ever goes to plan. And so it takes a certain type of personality to be able to manage that in a in a room full of people where tempers might be high, right, a lot of money's at stake, and just be like, here's the vision. We are solving a problem, like let's let's do it, let's be positive. Jim and Andrew both just have wonderfully positive outlooks on life and on um on our field, and it it really it helps the whole project, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 26:30

And that kind of sums up a um a big lesson from both of them and others that you approach these things with confidence but not an ego, yeah, uh, to be able to have that collaboration with a team because you really need the team to pull it off, like you really need them.

SPEAKER_01 26:46

Absolutely, it's a team mindset.

SPEAKER_03 26:48

Yeah, we were we were also talking about this too, is like all of these different areas. We often say like we have different areas of expertise, but it's really not that. We have different areas of responsibility, and every project is new, every design problem is new, and we don't know how to do it. Like and so being able to have the mind like growth mindset, learning mindset, and just be able to tackle a problem and find a solution, as opposed to I know how to do it, and this is how we're gonna do it. Like, no one wants no one that's hard, that's really hard to work with. And the outcome isn't there.

SPEAKER_01 27:22

The collaboration is the most important part, but well, it sounds like you guys have had an incredible foundation and are continuing to grow. I this first year of business for you. I know it's no small leap to jump from working under someone to manning your own firm. So I think that you know, that's a common trajectory for designers, architects, landscape architects, anyone really in the industry is to have that experience and then maybe try to step out on their own. So, for those people, what advice would you maybe give to people who are interested in one day having their own firm? What did you guys have to trust in each other to know that you were ready to take the next step?

SPEAKER_04 28:02

Well, it was definitely a leap of faith, that's for sure. You never, you never feel um, I have never talked to anyone that really felt ready to do it. Um Connor and I have talked about it off and on for a very long time. And the fact that we kept coming back to the same conversation um and coming up with the same conclusion um at least gave me confidence. Yeah.

unknown 28:24

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 28:25

Well, and I think uh just kind of living around each other, experiencing the design world together, just kind of parallel, not necessarily on the same projects for the past 10 years, is um, you know, I came to just trust his val, like his values. And for that, it was it is a high a high standard of excellence. And for me, that is I have a very high standard of excellence. If I'm gonna if I'm gonna work on something, I want it to be really good. And if I'm gonna invest my time, I want it, I want the end result to be good. And Jacques just kind of has the same perspective, and so for that, there was no trust to have to be gained, it just already was there, and so it was a it was a pretty easy um transition in terms of yeah, we're it's time is now, let's do it.

SPEAKER_01 29:13

Yeah, absolutely. Well, I mean, the trust in one another and having that you know sameness in the sense of we both want this to be perfect, and it's probably not gonna be totally perfect, but at least we want that same level is the most important part. Because if you were differing on that, then I don't even want to know how that would go, right? Well, Connor, Jock, it has been such a pleasure talking to you today. Thank you for joining the In Residence podcast and giving us your distinct personalities and voices. And I can't wait to see where the rest of it goes for you.

SPEAKER_04 29:45

Yes, thank you, thank you.