The Gift of Redemption Part Two

PART TWO OF EPISODE

In this episode we sit down with author and theologian Dr. Chad Bird to explore what it means to walk with God through failure, loss, and the painful aftermath of divorce. Drawing from his books Night Driving, Limping with God, and Untamed Prayers, Chad shares how Scripture speaks honestly about broken lives and wounded disciples. Together we discuss how men can face face regret without despair, rediscover their identity in Christ after divorce, and learn to pray again when faith feels fractured. Using stories from the life of Jacob, the raw prayers of Psalms, and the hope of the gospel, this conversation offers a powerful reminder that God often does His deepest work in our darkest seasons. If you're a man navigating divorce, carrying shame, rebuilding fatherhood, or wondering whether God still has a future for you, this episode will remind you that redemption is not reserved for the unbroken. Sometimes the men God uses most are the ones who walk with a limp. 

Resources: www.MensDivorceRecovery.org 

Finding Forgiveness Episode: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/finding-forgiveness/id1615813073?i=1000590135292

Transcript

SPEAKER_02 0:00

Hi men, welcome back to the podcast. Today we're going to hear the second half of Dale's interview with Chad. Let's go ahead and get things started.

SPEAKER_00 0:21

You've been very honest and open, and I think that's really amazing. And your writing is really camps in that area, that space of of being vulnerable. And this is just where God meets us, man. I mean, it's something. You wrote a book called Jacob Limping, and I have to say, uh, I mean, limping with God. I'm sorry about Jacob limping. I haven't read it, but I do know the Jacob story, but that's next on my writing a reading list. Um, but we all know the story about Jacob and that wound that he walks away with uh his hip. So uh and I do believe that Jews do not eat that part of the hip, right? Or something? Because of the you're the expert on this, brother. I'm deferring the expert here.

SPEAKER_02 1:09

Yeah, that's the very end uh of of that story uh at Genesis 32 is where you have the the account of Jacob wrestling with God, and it's kind of a it's kind of a strange ending. It's like and and for that reason, the uh the people of Israel do not eat the the sinew that's on the socket of the thigh that God touched. So I mean it the ending almost seems anticlimactic, like we just had a wrestling match with God, and you're talking about culinary habits of the Jews. This is weird. But one of the things that that I realized when I was over time writing about that, reading about it, thinking about it, is that it's actually a it's a perfect ending to that story because yeah, Jacob limps away from that encounter with God, and we don't know if he ever got better. I mean, he could have limped the rest of his life, right? I like to think that he did. Um but the the next generations of the Israelites, they kept the memory of that wrestling match alive by refusing to eat that part of the animal. So I like to think, okay, you uh there's a family, it's it's time for a feast, they've killed uh a calf, and the father and the son are together butchering the animal, and they get to that part of the animal, and and dad's like, Oh son, we don't we don't eat that part. And the son says, Why don't we eat that part, Dad? And dad says, So let me tell you a story. And then he tells him the story of Jacob wrestling with him. So this kept that memory alive in the the daily life of the Israelites, and then on a on a kind of a theological level, that that applies to us in the sense that we we keep our the memories of life of our former pains and losses and scars and wounds. I love the example you gave with the guy that put the mat on his wall. I call that I I use the Jacob store to talk about that, where we are good stewards of our scars. Yeah, yeah. We uh I mean you we're talking about our scars related to divorce. Uh other people can talk about their woundedness from addiction, other people can talk about limping away from whatever might whatever it might be. I mean, we all have, you don't have to live five minutes in this world to have something that's happened to you, that was painful, that was uh that put you in a place of of exile. Yeah, the wonderful thing that can come out of that is that once God pulls you through that, then you can become a steward of that by helping other people, just like you do. When you're talking to people in prison, just like I do in my own ministry, and just like guys can do on a on a daily basis. You know, somebody at work, you say say somebody listening to this has been through a divorce, and there's a guy at work that's going through one. Well, they can reach out to him and say, Listen, uh, I'm not saying that my experience is like yours, but I have gone through this. And I can I can listen, I can talk, I can tell you what happened to me. And in that way, man, you can be such an encouragement to to other people. You're being a good serious scars, you're not hiding the fact that you've been through this and this is what you learned from it, and that way you're you're able to be an encouragement to other people.

SPEAKER_00 4:27

That is absolutely that that really is uh critical for our ministry to other to people going through this. And and once we get through it, you know, 2 Timothy, 2 Timothy, 2 Corinthians 1, where we have comforted so we can be comfort to others. And you know, we can't always explain the darkness, but you know, we are the light, Christ shining through us, and uh, and that's undeniable what how Christ has rescued us. And uh, you know, back to that guy's question about did David commit murder? I said, Oh, yeah, a lot more. All of us have done that, and uh, and the Bible just points right to the amazing grace of God. Amazing. Um one question, I think that you know, we're in a weird space for maleness, masculinity in American culture right now. It's like a it's a mess. Passivity or aggression, you know, Andrew Tate or uh all the rest of them, you know, feminization of masculine men. Uh and I have two sons. I try to work with them. Um, I have a heart for the young men, especially that I see every day here in in the jail that that the messages they're getting are so convoluted. To me, uh working with divorcement and others, then how do you you how did you balance uh the actual just uh grief, you know, expressing your grief? Because you're you're grieving so much. I mean, you I lost a lot, you lost, I think you lost a lot more in your you know, your job and all that kind of stuff and all the identity things that you have. How do you balance that with um the charge that you're just feeling sorry for yourself? I think our guys, you know, our you know, I I think divorced men tend to isolate. They don't know what to do, they don't, they've lost their friends, you know, they don't the friend-making muscles have kind of atrophied. Um and then if you do say something, well, then you're weak. But then men, we do tend to process all our emotions, all the all that come in the input is whatever it is, sadness, or it tends to come out in anger. So we have a sort of a oftentimes a one one focused, an angry man, it can be a depressed man, can be a sad man, can be uh you know truly angry man, or can just be a man who lost a grieving man. So um, yeah, I think we I've thought about that a lot. How do we express ourselves without falling into just self-pity? Or, you know, I've filmed my pity parties, me, myself, and I make a very boring bunch. But it's we are we're boring, man, but it feels good, me, myself, and I, the little unholy trinity. What how when you think about that? Is uh what how would you kind of think around those weird issues?

SPEAKER_02 7:09

Yeah, so uh, I mean, I think it's uh this this is not an excuse, uh, but I do think it's unavoidable that to some extent we're just gonna feel sorry for ourselves. I mean, that's just the human condition. Yes, yeah, anybody anybody listen to this, don't say to yourself, I am gonna never feel sorry for myself. Yes, you will. That just the human condition, you will feel sorry for yourself. So, but the real question is, what do you what do you do then when you're feeling that way? You know, how how are you gonna how are you gonna give some kind of vent to it? Because you don't want to keep it all bottled up. Uh chances are if you do, you're gonna explode in in anger, right? In in a way that's very unhelpful. So I did a I I did a couple things. Uh, I began to learn some a couple of different ways that that I could deal with this. And one I think is pretty common with guys. I mean, I started to I started to hit the gym and to run. And okay, yes, amen. The the physicality of working out and running actually was uh my my best antidepressant. Let's put let me put it that way. It was like this was one way I could actually get rid of some of that pent-up energy and uh get my mind on something else. So I started doing long distance running, I started going to the gym, and I think that's pretty common for a lot of guys who are going through divorce, and it and it's good. I mean, you know, everything in in moderation, but that is one healthy way you get to feeling better about yourself physically and probably emotionally too, and it's and it's a good healthy outlet for that. So I did that now. On the uh on the more spiritual side, I started to pray the psalms. Um now, for guys who maybe haven't done that, one of the things you'll learn when you just open up the middle of the Bible, which is where the Psalms are, and if you start to pray some of these, you will be, I think most guys are quite surprised with how blunt and raw and openly honest these prayers are. It's like you as you're saying these, you're just praying the words of the Psalms, often you will be like, Can I say this to God? I mean, this is I know that's so true. Can I really say this to God? And the answer is yes, you can, because God actually gave us these prayers in order that we could say them back to Him. And so that you the Psalms question God. They'll be like, Why and how long and where are you? And they'll say things like, Have you forgotten to be gracious? Uh, and they're written by a man, many of them by the man David. You've alluded a couple of times, the fact that David uh murdered, he was guilty of adultery. I mean, his actions actually led to a lot of people suffering and even dying.

SPEAKER_01 10:00

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 10:00

So uh, and and he so he's writing things from that perspective, also from the fact that he was he was persecuted by by King Saul. So he knows what it's like to suffer, to to go through hard times, and he teaches us then when we're feeling sorry for ourselves or we're feeling anger or we're confused by God, it it's fine to actually turn to God and say, Listen, I don't I don't know what you're doing in my life. I'm I'm I'm not happy about it, I'm I'm confused, I'm upset, I'm guilty, I feel guilt, I feel shame. Help me. And the Psalms, therefore, give you a way to vent in actually a good, godly, biblical sort of way. And I think for most guys, that's like very different than what that they've been taught or experienced. But for me, that was very liberating because now I mean I didn't know how to talk to God. Is he mad at me? Is he apathetic toward me? Does he love me? But you're a theology professor to do that.

SPEAKER_00 11:03

You're a theology professor, dude. I'm supposed to know this, right? You're supposed to know this. I was trying to look up Psalm 13, which I think is David's raw sort of uh that's not pulling up on my deal. Um, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 11:16

That Psalm 13 begins with four how longs. How long, oh Lord. And he says it four times in the first two verses. How long, how long, how long, how long? Um, yeah, I often will point to Psalm 13 as a great, very brief. It's only six verses. I mean, you can pray it in less than 60 seconds, and it summarizes the entire journey of going through that hard time. You start out questioning God, like, how long is this fill in the blank gonna go on? Yeah, and then he says, basically, look at me, pay attention to me.

SPEAKER_00 11:52

Yeah, yeah, exactly. Don't you know? Just I'm reaching it.

SPEAKER_02 11:56

Are you not seeing what I'm going through? And then he ends the last two verses basically with saying, I will trust and I will rejoice. Yeah, so I you can pray those six verses quickly to to actually live them takes a while, but they will they are a good map to to get you from where you are to where you want to be.

SPEAKER_00 12:19

I'm thinking that praying the Psalms is probably better than looking at porn if you're gonna put stuff in your head. So so you have a choice there on time, guys. You may have a lot of time living in your one-bedroom apartment, but your book, Untamed Prayers, is is really does lay that out in such a beautiful way. Um, that the psalms are just amazing. And you know, I uh tell me if I'm wrong, but the Bible is written by men, right? Except for maybe, you know, we have Miriam's song and then Mary's song, and then I don't know, Hebrews is I don't know, I'm not a scholar in that area, but but when you think about men wrote this, and these were Gala men. I mean, David was not uh playing a video game and got killed and then reconstituted on your screen. He went into battle with real swords, killed real people, almost killed several, you know. So he's a he's a manly man, and yet he pours his heart out, he expresses his emotions in a way that is quite amazing. So yeah, uh pick up that book, guys, Untamed Prayers. I'm in the middle of it right now, and uh you know, you really lay that out in uh in such a great way. I I totally, man, psalms are great. I still read Psalms every day. You may that might be all you can read of the Bible, are just the Psalms. Um, in the exercise, guys, you always hear it, I have a chapter in my book about just get moving. If you can only do 10 push-ups, start with 10, you know, and then if you can walk 500, I had a guy one time, he said, I can hardly walk uh 200 feet without feeling out of breath. And in in a year, he was actually walking several miles a day. And the year after that, he was he was running, jogging like five miles. So that is the magic. We are men are made to move, and boy, you pounded into the pavement and bike or or running, and uh that can help you a lot. So I appreciate that. And then and then did if you're in the pity party, it's hard to balance, I guess, what people think of you know, you know, why are you feeling sorry for yourself? How do you I mean this is where you really need a friend that can just listen to you, right? A counselor, therapist, pastor who can just listen to you, lay it out there just where you are, and and not accuse you of being a weak guy or whatever. I don't know.

SPEAKER_02 14:33

Yeah, definitely having somebody who's willing to listen and to listen, like you said earlier, no matter how many times you need to say it. You know, because part of the way that we kind of understand what happened to us and just get to kind of all the nitty-gritty of of everything that you know maybe is traumatic when it's all going down, is by talking about it over and over. You know, this happened, you you're telling your story, and uh I think you know when I wrote night driving, uh, maybe 10 years had passed since all that happened.

SPEAKER_00 15:07

Okay, okay. Well, that's not where I am in my dreams.

SPEAKER_02 15:10

It forced me to go back in my mind and relive it and think through that story and to retell that story. And as I did, I learned a lot more about myself and what was going on back with me, just kind of sitting in it and thinking about it and talking about it. And you can do that with a friend or a counselor or a pastor, whoever it might be. You know, you can talk through this, think through this, let them help you to think through it too. And you're gonna have a much better grasp of what happened, where you're at now, and and the way forward. Uh, because I mean that's that's the goal, right? We all we don't want to be stuck where we are. We want to we want to work our way forward to be uh after it's all said and done, better, better men in the sense that we have a better understanding of ourselves. Uh we have a bit more humility, and above all, we we have learned to lean on the Lord and not so much upon ourselves or our addictions or whatever it might be that uh has plagued us in the past.

SPEAKER_00 16:14

So good friends kind of listen. You know, I think you mentioned Joe Burley, then his friends start off good, right? They just sat with him for a week without saying anything. And that's a good way to start. And I have to say, I sometimes I'm always I want to solve your problem, I want to solve your problem. But part of that would be to listen, absorb some of the pain, and then to evaluate and maybe redirect somebody's perspective. Because we often say, I say to people are depressed, don't believe everything you're telling yourself because your brain is not working right. And you're telling yourself things that are just not true. You need somebody from the outside to say, okay, this is um, and then to just hang in there through the long haul. Friends are critical, guys. You really do have to reach out. And we we say, Chad, to build a team, you need, you know, a a counselor, a pastor, maybe a men's ministry leader should be able in a good strong church, should be able to help you or get you tied up with somebody in your church who's been through divorce, maybe. Um, and then um a lawyer, a financial advisor, these are medical doctors. This is your team, but the friends, you know, are the ones who are gonna hang in there with your therapist and gonna want to meet three times a week, but you know, you might have a friend who does. So that's good, good advice. Man, so the reevaluation after 10 years of seeing things you learned about yourself. That's uh so journaling maybe. I mean, since you're kind of journaling, weren't you in that in your book? Yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 17:42

That's a that's a good way to put it. And that uh I mean, I I know every guy is different in this respect. Uh, I mean, I'm a I'm a writer by trade, so and other guys of course are not. But one thing that that I think anybody can do if they want to sit down and do it is writing helps you to think through uh what happened. Because it it of course it forces you to slow down. You're not just recording your voice, you're recording your words, which takes time. And you gotta think, okay, how am I gonna frame this, how I'm gonna explain this. So writing has always helped me to formulate my thoughts, to organize my emotions, to clarify exactly what happened to me, why it happened. And journaling can I think journaling can certainly do that. There's something about moving from just thinking and talking to writing that adds a special clarity and sharpness to our understanding what's going on in our lives. So journaling is is one great way to do that.

SPEAKER_00 18:46

It also gets your gets your thoughts out of your head onto paper where you don't have to keep remembering them. You say, I always found if I'm really mad at somebody and I'm thinking, well, I see them next time, I'm gonna tell them this. And then I in the middle of the night, I'm I'm gonna tell them this. But if I write it down, then I got okay, if I want to tell them this, I can go back to my notes. But but the same thing with journaling, you get it figured out and stuff. So um, just two more quick subjects. Uh, thank you so much for your time. Um, but I do want you to definitely tell us uh more about your work, which is so amazing. But you're remarried to Stacy, if I remember correctly. How long have y'all been married and how's that gone and all that kind of stuff? I mean, you don't have to reveal all the stuff on our little podcast here. That's right, answer, by the way.

SPEAKER_02 19:31

Yeah, we uh my goodness, we married back in 2013.

SPEAKER_00 19:36

So okay, so you were about nine years single? About nine years single. Okay, okay.

SPEAKER_02 19:44

Yeah, so it was uh we uh Stacy and I went to high school together. We knew each other back then, so we weren't completely new to each other when we started dating. Uh but we uh yeah, we uh yeah, we were both at kind of that stage in our life. She had been divorced, I was divorced, and we both knew kind of what we were looking for. So uh once we reconnected and dated for a while, we decided to get married, and that's been a tremendous, tremendous blessing to me. She understands from a woman's perspective what it's like to go through a divorce. I understand, of course, from a man's perspective what it's like to go through a divorce. And we both have made our mistakes in the past and learned from them. Uh and I think that has made our marriage that much that much stronger because we we have both been through hard times and now have learned to lean on each other during hard times that she and I have faced together. I mean, we she's had cancer twice during our marriage. Uh we we lost our we lost our youngest son back in 2022. So we've experienced you know grief and worry and just all the regular human stuff that happens to all of us. So uh yeah, it's been a tremendous blessing for us to have each other these these years.

SPEAKER_00 21:07

I think the uh, you know, I know the divorce rate for second marriages is higher, but you know, I'm remarried, super happily remarried stuff. I I think the a lot of our men either they don't want to ever touch woman again, you know, toxic, I'm done, or they just want to get in a relationship really quickly. And of course, we urge you to say, God will if God wants you to be remarried, he can that can happen. Um, let him do that in his time. Don't go out and complicate your life more by jumping into a relationship. Now you're gonna have two heartbreaks. So there's a warning there, guys. If you're listening to this first time, you're gonna always hear us say to take some time, let God do that work. And if you're if you have an addiction, you know, that was a part of your first your divorce, then you just uh you you owe it to future woman and future her children to solve that problem. Whatever it takes, the money it takes. Don't afflict yourself on somebody else. If you're porn gambling, it's a man, fan duel. What can you say? This gambling thing is is taking the nation by storm, or alcohol and drugs, and all that kind of stuff. Get it fixed. So but you'd had a long time, wow, to put this through, and that's amazing. The second thing is what about church? You know, you're Lutheran, you're in a Lutheran organization, 1517 pretty much says it all. What was your the church kicked you out, it sounds like, from what I can tell. How did you come back to the church? Or what is your relationship with Christ's bride? I had my own stormy times with the bride, you know.

SPEAKER_02 22:46

Yeah. Yeah, that was uh that was another difficulty. Uh, you know, I had like I said, I was a seminary prof, so I was this is thank God before the days of social media.

SPEAKER_00 22:58

So boy, no kidding.

SPEAKER_02 23:00

You know, because today if anything like this happens, you know, it just explodes on social media. Yeah, uh so thankfully this this all happened before the days of social media, but you know, it wasn't like word doesn't get out, so it did get out, and so uh yeah, I had a you know, I had some kind of cold receptions of some churches, uh, which made it difficult for me to integrate into the community of life. What happened though for me was that I I I moved, so I was living in the Texas panhandle for a while. I moved to San Antonio, and this is before Stacy and I married. Moved to San Antonio.

SPEAKER_00 23:40

Texas panhandle, if you're gonna isolate the panhandle, is a good place to do that.

SPEAKER_02 23:45

Oh, yeah, yeah. If you're gonna isolate, talk a lot about isolation.

SPEAKER_00 23:49

Yeah, the panhandle is if you're anybody wanting to go away by yourself, then there's lots of space up there.

SPEAKER_02 23:55

I'm panhandle and I got my CDL and drove a truck on the night shift. So you talk about isolation, yeah. I just as well have been on a deserted island somewhere. Uh but after that, so after that, I moved to be my the stepfather of my kids, uh, got a job transfer to New Bronville's, Texas, and I was able to transfer my company to San Antonio, Texas, right down the road from New Bronville, so I could be close to the kids. Okay, yeah. Okay. So I moved down there and looked at various churches and went to one, and that became my church because nobody there ever brought up my past. Nobody there ever treated me any different than they would treat anybody else. Nobody looked at me uh like, oh, there's that guy, you know. The pastor didn't, none, nobody in the congregation did. They just welcomed me as one more struggling person, one more sinner in need of the grace and forgiveness of God and Jesus Christ, and we're always nothing but the best to me. And then when Stacy and I married, that pastor conducted the ceremony, Stacy became part of the church, they they welcomed her. So just the fact that I found a loving, compassionate community of believers went a long way toward repairing the damage that had been caused uh by uh my past experiences. You know what helped me too was, you know, I the church is populated by people who are sinners, just like I am, you know. So they have their problems, I had my problems, and kind of coming to grips with that, just that reality. Listen, we're all in this together. And yeah, they're gonna make they're gonna make mistakes. I made mistakes, but we have a God who takes care of those things in in Christ. So that was a big, big uh help for me to kind of get over my anger toward the church, just being welcomed by a loving and gracious church and and pastor. And then since then Yeah, I mean, since then I I've been acting in the church ever since. I mean, I'm a scholar of residence for 1517. Uh, there are still people out there in the church that that like to bring up my past sins and on occasion throw them out there on social media. But I'm at the point now where I'm like, whatever. You know, I you're you're talking about Jesus owns that, right? Yeah, you're talking about what Jesus owns, right? Yeah, that Jesus took away, right? So uh take that up with him. It's not my sin anymore. It's true.

SPEAKER_00 26:31

I love it. Yeah, so now let me get to the cross, you be the first to cast a stone.

SPEAKER_02 26:36

So yeah, so I mean, for the most part, now it it it just it doesn't come up very often anymore. And uh I'm just grateful to be able to serve the church, grateful to be able to uh be part of a church here in Tyler, Texas as well. That's a great church. Uh great great pastors. So and I just knowing that I I need it, you know, I need this community, and uh they uh they welcome me as one more person who is ready to receive what Christ gives us every Sunday.

SPEAKER_00 27:07

Perfect, man. I love that. I think yeah, I'm I'm pretty much over the charge that the church is hypocritical. When I get told that, and I say, well, go on the in in Texas. I say the state board keeps a list of all those social workers, nurses, doctors, dentists who are under probation on probation for violation or kicked off. Their license is revoked. So if you if you look at those lists which are long, you'll never go to another doctor, social nurse again. Yes. Teachers, teachers go on the teacher thing. Um, but the you know, I think people go to church expecting to walk into an NFL uh like weight room, you know, the best specimens, you know, this isn't the Dallas Cowboys weight room. Instead, they're going into a rehab where just the tiny step forward is a humongous victory. And if we can keep that in mind, we can be more gracious toward toward the church. I, you know, I was pretty angry at the church, just my own circumstance of being kicked out of the church for no justified reason and my wife leaving me. And so much damage ever done to me was has been by Christian leaders, but Christ just said, you know, you are part of the bride, and I died for the bride. So you are not in a position to condemn the bride that I died for. You know, you're part of that. So that helped me re-own the church. And I have a book I want to write called um uh well, what else are they gonna call it? Um, oh my gosh, I have to add this in later, but uh it's basically what to do with the church when the church wants nothing to do with you. Oh but it is a the bride of Christ is uh is really she is the bride and Jesus. Good enough. If it's good enough for Jesus, it's better be good enough for us. I'm glad you really found that. Really glad you found that. Um that that hope and everything in the church and and blessings. You are such an amazing writer, guys. You got to pick up his books. He is Chad is a super amazing scholar. I the way you pull us together. I listened to your podcast for uh 40 Minutes in the Old Testament and and uh a lot. I appreciate just going through verse by verse and your wisdom. Can you tell us kind of what you're doing and how that works? 1517, the books and the podcasts, and anything else that you're doing?

SPEAKER_02 29:22

Yeah, so 1517 is uh it's a Christian nonprofit. I got connected with them oh, I think the first time back in 2016. Uh little bit a little bit of work for them over the years, and then full-time since 2020, I've been working for them. And what I do is I'm I'm one of their biblical guy, Bible guys, so Old Testament is my specialization. So I have uh the podcast 40 Minutes in the Old Testament that I that I do that you were you were talking about. Uh I write books for them. Uh I've written multiple books for 1570 publishing. In fact, uh just to so we're recording whatever today's date is, uh February 26th. Just today I finished the last page on my most recent books.

SPEAKER_00 30:04

Oh wow.

SPEAKER_02 30:05

I was rejoicing this morning. It's always a thrill to do that. So I write books for them. I I speak at I anywhere from a dozen to 15 events kind of across the country per year.

SPEAKER_01 30:18

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 30:19

Uh, and then I do a lot. So any guys that are on social media, if you're on whatever channel, whether it's Twitter, Instagram, Facebook, TikTok, YouTube, I've got videos and and other things that I put out there, so you can check me out, check me out there. But a lot of what I do is I'm I'm teaching, I'm teaching the gospel, I'm teaching Christ mainly from an old testament perspective and helping people to better understand the the beauty and the richness of the old testament and its connection to Christ and the and the New Testament.

SPEAKER_00 30:49

When you speak at these events, or what is your do you have a focus? Is it is it just that Old Testament, Christ in Old Testament, or or or is there wide-ranging men's issues, or I'm just throwing some stuff out there. Do you have any wide-ranging or kind of focus?

SPEAKER_02 31:05

Mainly what I do is uh I've got a handful of presentations that I adapt to various situations. So I will talk about matters related to my books, like you brought up limping with God. Yeah. So I've got a a multi-presentation uh that I multi uh element presentation I do on Jacob and his connection, how his life mirrors our lives, you know, whether that's in family issues, marriage problems, uh struggles, uh confrontations with God, reunions with with brothers that we've wronged, all that kind of stuff comes up in Jacob's life. So I'll use Jacob's story to connect with people. I've got one on just Christ in the Old Testament, which is more of a kind of a big view picture of how is Jesus present and prophesied in the Old Testament. I've got other presentations I do that are more kind of what we've been talking about, related to night driving and repeating uh suffering, recovery, all those sorts of things. Uh I'll adapt that depending on my audience, of course. So I'll I'll do kind of a night driving theme on on occasion if if a group requests that. So those are I mean three of the ones that I do.

SPEAKER_00 32:18

Are you uh so would we find your information on the 1517 website, 1517.org? Or do you have your own website as well?

SPEAKER_02 32:26

Yeah, just go to 1517.org and uh you can search my name there and they've got all my information there.

SPEAKER_00 32:34

And then what is 1517? Uh I mean, obviously related to Luther and 95 Theses and the Wittenberg door and all that kind of stuff, quite the amazing. I you know I was shocked at the 500th anniversary of you know in 2017 how little attention was paid to that in American culture. Uh I'm not surprised, but I was shocked at the same time. Like this literally, we're living in a world created by that, you know, him to a large extent. So, but 1517 is it how old is it? And it's uh and is it speaking publications? You mentioned I I've seen I know they have tons of great work on there.

SPEAKER_02 33:11

Yeah, yeah. So the the organization started probably around 2000, I don't know, 13, 14, something like that, and then really grew uh enormously beginning around 2019, 20. Uh, a lot of us came on board then. Okay. We have got around, I don't know, 30 full-time staff that uh that work for us doing all kinds of things. So you can pick you can kind of picture of us as a combination of a of a think tank, but at the same time, so we I mean we do a lot of you know scholarly work, but our our goal is to use all the media that we have today, social media, okay, and uh you know, the videos and podcasts and you name it to get to get the gospel out there as well as kind of a an apologetic slant. Okay. We uh apologetics is also kind of a foundational to what to what we do. We have a podcast called The Thinking Fellows, where they do a lot of apologetic work for the church. So whether it's Bible, whether it's uh gospel, whether it's preaching, whether it's uh apologetics, uh whatever history, we've got all of those covered in various ways.

SPEAKER_00 34:22

Oh wow. Okay, that thank you so much. I am I love apologetics and definitely uh we'll check out the thinking. You said thinking thinking fellows, yes. Thinking fellows, all right, man. Well, my wife has not ever called me a thinking fellow before. No, I'm just kidding. She has. She's we I'm remarried very happily, guy. You know, if she listens to this, I love you, Kelly. You know you're amazing, and she's very encouraging. It's so amazing to be somebody's encouraging. I think that's quite an astonishing. But well, Chad, you have been a delight. I appreciate you coming up and speaking to our uh re-entry ministries uh years ago, and just to these guys and guys coming out of the prison, and just that I remember your your theme was a repentance and uh how beautiful that is. So God is good and He is blessing you. So I'm so glad. I mean, I think guys on the other ECNC, if you choose to follow God, that God would do amazing things and will make you, you know, it's sort of like Richard Ward says the second half of your life can be so much better than the first half. Because now you got your purpose, you got kind of that the junk out of the way, you're maturing, or you can just be uh continue to be a little boy in uh in an old man's body and just be an idiot. So it's our choice. You gotta choose well in the choices you make when you're in divorce. We always say, Chad, and I we always end our podcast with this is I say two things. Don't make it worse. Whatever you're whatever you're feeling or thinking, they cannot put you in jail for thinking or feeling those things. They can't put you in jail for doing those things. So your thinking and emotions will come along. Just don't act out in destructive ways that will get you make it make it a lot worse. And then the second thing is is we just say, determined right now in the midst of your pain that you are going to finish well. That on that day when people are gathered around you, your body, whatever it is, that your children, everybody will can look back and say he went through a hard time, but God got him through it. He did well. So don't make it worse and and be sure and uh finish well. So, guys, this is it. Thank you so much for uh listening. Thank you, Chad, for being on this podcast. Uh, guys, we will see you next time.