Why Men Lose in Divorce—and How to Change the Outcome

In this episode of Men’s Divorce Recovery, Dale and Chris sit down with Diana Romanov—founder of Romanov Law and a certified Family Law Specialist—to break down the hidden architecture behind why relationships fail and what men can do to navigate divorce with clarity and control. Drawing from her experience guiding thousands of clients through high-stakes divorces, Diana shares the patterns that quietly lead to disconnection, the costly mistakes men make early in the process, and how to approach divorce strategically rather than emotionally. The conversation dives into power dynamics, protecting your role as a father, and what separates a destructive divorce from one that sets you up for a stronger future. Diana also unpacks how technology and AI are reshaping the divorce landscape—and how men can use these tools to stay informed, empowered, and ahead of the process. 

Inspiration Verse: Proverbs 4:23 “Above all else, guard your heart, for everything you do flows from it.” 

Resources: https://www.romanovlaw.com/

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:00

Hi guys, welcome back to Men's Divorce Recovery. Today we have a fantastic guest. We have Diana Romanov, who's going to be talking to us. She's a lawyer based in California but has experience throughout the globe, is going to be talking to us about a lot of really important issues that you have to think about as you're heading into the divorce process that can really impact you. Before we get started, wanted to make sure that uh gave you a heads up on a couple of things. Number one, uh, make sure that you're reaching out to Dale and I for any divorce coaching needs. We're here to help you. So you can reach us at www.men's divorce recovery.org or by emailing us at hello at men's divorce recovery.org. Um and then also make sure that you are sending us your um your thoughts, your questions, your ideas for shows. We take um uh text or voice message. All you have to do is go into the uh the podcast and look in the show notes, and there's a little link that says send us fan mail. Go ahead and click on that, and you can send us either a text or a voice message, and we will be sure to listen and get back to you. Um let's go ahead and get started with the show.

SPEAKER_01 1:15

Hey guys, this is Dale Brown, the founder of uh Mince Divorce Recovery, along with my partner, Chris Espinoza. And we are glad to be coming to you with a new podcast uh with a special guest this day. Uh Minster Force Recovery, we exist to help you get through those very, very difficult times of divorce. We are know what it's like. Chris and I have been through it, and uh, we're determined to help you get through it to where you will uh survive and thrive beyond this divorce. So let me turn it over to Chris and looking forward to this.

SPEAKER_00 1:44

Absolutely. Thanks, Dale. I'm excited to introduce Diana. Um, so let's start a little bit about a background about Diana. So Diana Romanov is a San Francisco family law attorney, licensed in California and Germany, and a certified family law specialist. She is fluent in English, Russian, and German and provides counsel representation and mediation services across cultural lines, which I think is so critical. Previously a prosecutor at the Regional Superior Court of Berlin, Diana practiced with um wow, I uh Beaton Bergard and Wagner. Is that right?

SPEAKER_01 2:19

And absolutely that's in uh German Larry I should be doing this introduction.

SPEAKER_00 2:23

Wow, this is a long name for a law firm here. So she earned her Justice and Diversity Center's outreach uh outstanding pro bono award in 2012 and 2013, and was named a super lawyer rising star for her client care and legal expertise. That's impressive. Diana holds a JD in family law from Freer University School of Law in Berlin and an LLM in U.S. legal studies from Golden Gate University. Born in Kiev and raised in Germany, Diana's multicultural background enriches her empathetic approach, drawing on her own divorce experience. She founded a boutique firm to deliver personalized, effective solutions in custody, support, mediation, alimony, and asset division. Welcome to the show, Diana. Thank you for joining us.

SPEAKER_02 3:11

Thanks for having me.

SPEAKER_00 3:13

Yeah, it's such an impressive background. And what I love about your background too is you're a divorce lawyer who is drawing on your own experience of divorce as well. So I think that that is critical because a lot of times I found professionals who help with this work don't have any experience going through it themselves. So, you know, I feel like that helps build that empathy muscle for you and that understanding. So you've worked with thousands of couples. What are some of the most common patterns you see that quietly lead to relationships relationships towards divorce? So let's take it even before divorce is happening, because you're seeing it once the bomb has already exploded. What are you seeing are the most common pitfalls that are leading to that moment where all of a sudden they're knocking on your door?

SPEAKER_02 3:53

Actually, before I answer, I wrote a second book uh called Good Together. It's coming out on July 7th. And this is going to be a book how to stay married or ask the right questions before getting married or before divorce. So, from my perspective, based re based on real experiences with clients, while waiting in the hallway for our case to be called and having a real, real conversation. Almost always happens. To answer your question, the patterns are in different cases different. Let's say the the most recent pattern I observed in marriages that lasted for 20 years is usually they fall into some sort of uh agreement that they implied agreement. They don't discuss it. So let's say he goes to work, he makes money, they have a couple children, three children, and they stop talking about each other. They stop having dates, uh, they stop having sex, they don't talk about that. So they just have these uh conversations that that look like sex because they're fighting most of the time instead of just having a date, going to a therapist. And I like how one client said, if you have a problem, you need to find a specialist. So if there is a marital issue, get a family therapist. If there is a sex issue, find a sex therapist. If there's a money issue, find a money coach. And so I noticed the pitfall is people believe that they know it all. If they're successful in one thing, okay, uh, as a mother, I'm successful in raising children and I know how to handle this relationship stuff. No. And same for him. If he earns a lot of money, it doesn't mean he knows he knows how to manage 100 people underneath, but he doesn't know how to manage his own household. He doesn't know the kids' grades, he doesn't know what his wife likes. They just get into this pattern of complacency, of I know it all. And I guess they don't have enough energy either. And at some point they stop caring for each other, and then that's where infidelity comes in, that's when indifference comes in. It it doesn't come suddenly. So when someone says, Oh, she filed for divorce and I'm surprised, well, you ignored a lot of things along the way. So usually I notice women don't just file for divorce suddenly. They don't. They're more practical than we think. And and same for men. They they say what they need, and I I heard it in one of the classes that men can stay in a miserable relationship seven years. That's their cutoff.

SPEAKER_01 6:41

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 6:42

So for seven years they say, I need more attention, I need more affection, I need more appreciation, and you know, if she brushes it off, the the expiration date is usually seven years.

SPEAKER_00 6:56

Do you know what the data is around which so so men wait seven years? Is there something like women wait too? Like I'm just curious about like I'm I'm curious. Is it is there any data around that?

SPEAKER_02 7:06

I haven't seen any data around that.

SPEAKER_00 7:09

Because my get my guess would be is that women wait less time um than than men do. I don't know why, Dale, but it's because it you know, if you just look at the stats around who files for divorce, exactly overwhelmingly women. Yeah, and you know, Dale, I don't know if you have any thoughts about that, but it it just seems to me like a woman is or maybe they're thinking about it longer before the man, and so they're formulating their plan. I don't know what goes into that because it does I you know, Dale, I I was in a similar situation. I it's not like I was happy in my marriage, but I wasn't gonna file for divorce. I that wasn't on my radar. Um, so I'm just yeah, it's interesting.

SPEAKER_01 7:44

That is I I think I thought your stats that's 80, 70, 80 percent of the women are the ones who file. And so I was thinking they're the ones who file, but I think men just are maybe just take it more or act out in different ways, like having an affair or something like that. But that's a a great question.

SPEAKER_02 8:02

Yeah, I I think women are stating what they need, and men at some point, if they cannot fulfill that need, it sounds like white noise, so they stop hearing that need, and then she files because she feels not heard.

SPEAKER_01 8:21

Yeah, that's it's we I'm I'm glad you were talking about this because guys, it's always better not to get divorced. Well, it's I shouldn't say it's always better. It just is, I mean, you're seeing Diana the results as we are, and uh it seems easier to stay married. Stay married is not as hard as people think it is, maybe uh uh case by case, right? But uh from a from a legal and psychological standpoint, which is cool that you're an attorney, but you have it sounds like you have such a heart for actually marriage itself and keeping people together, which is which is cool. But when does a relationship become what we might call unsalvageable versus just going through a rough phase? You know, I think from a male and female standpoint, you know, what's that tipping point? I call that the I guess one person decides right, and then somehow the other person gets that message, and we call that the date of separation when emotionally and you know, that when for us as guys, they they know they're gonna get divorced. Now it's headed down. It may not have been going that direction, but now they know, okay, she just walked out the door, my my luggage is on the front porch or whatever. Uh you know, what are you what are your thoughts on that?

SPEAKER_02 9:31

You know, I I was thinking about a saying uh killing with thousand cuts, so it's never that one thing. Maybe it's the final cut, but usually it starts with little nagging things that couples don't resolve. I think what happens once there is a conflict, the first test in dating, how are couples resolving this con this conflict? And if one person starts to act, well, I'm um I was raised this way and it should go this way, and they don't negotiate. When they stop negotiating and stop fighting for each other, that's when it becomes really hard to say. Because one person, it's like being on a on a small boat. Uh you can only paddle and and survive if two people paddle. Once one person stops, the other person will paddle, but they will run out of juice. And it could be men or women, doesn't matter. So when when one person stops and gives up, I think that's that's a short run when it's gonna going to end. And it doesn't matter who files first. So the way people resolve conflicts, the way parents and parties and the way they resolve conflicts will determine the success rate of their relationship. Do they walk out on each other when there is a heated heated moment? Doing do they insult each other in the moment when it when emotions are high? Do they hit each other? Do they bite each other? People get all we all get emotional from time to time, but how we manage those emotions, I think it's a very important skill set, regardless of the marriage. I think how a person behaves in a close relationship, that's how they are in all areas of life. If someone cannot contain their emotions, state what hurts, look what's actually going on. Behind potential anger, usually is the need for security. And so when they cannot resolve that, that's when it becomes really hard to save the marriage. And and when clients call me and they say, What should I do? Should I should I divorce him? Should I not? Um, we haven't had sex for 10 years. 10 divorce. He lives downstairs, and I'm not attracted to him, but I I I would like to stay for the sake of the children, in financial sake, and whatever sake. And and similar question I get from male clients. I I I really don't put myself in the position to give them advice about what to do. My job as a counselor is to counsel them and say, well, if you do this, then those are the consequences and your rights and liabilities and obligations. And then if you go that path less traveled, then this is what's gonna look like. You know your familiar misery is right here, right now. And if you want to come on the other side, this is how it would look like. And so I give legal advice. Try not to get into uh therapy session.

SPEAKER_01 12:40

My wife said that she figured she had a 50-50 chance if she divorced her now ex-husband. She said, I'm 100% miserable now. I have a 50% chance of being good or 50% of be remaining miserable. She thought that was better odds of staying. So yeah, that's pretty cool.

SPEAKER_02 12:58

I know what it is. That's true. Familiar misery. It feels good because it's familiar.

SPEAKER_01 13:02

At least it's it feels safe. Only the stay spaces.

SPEAKER_00 13:06

A hundred percent. You'd rather stay with the devil that that they you know than than the one that you don't. That makes perfect sense. Um, so let's assume it doesn't work out. Um bad stuff happens, they come to you, they're getting a divorce. What are the biggest mistakes men make early in the divorce process that end up costing them emotionally or financially later?

SPEAKER_02 13:28

Find a girlfriend too soon, introduce children to the girlfriend before they divide assets, before they div before they talked about alimony child support. Um moving out of the home first, letting her or taking the high road to agree to whatever she says. For example, in cases where she says, Well, and and this is this is manipulation, I don't know if I would like to stay together and he has lost hope to stay together, but I need you to move out so that I have space and you know, leave me with two children, pay for the home, and then you can always come whenever you and so he rents this place, and then slowly, a couple weeks later, not so slowly, she would say, Oh, we actually have something else going on. The children are busy, we are going to this activities, and uh uh they're sick. And so a couple months down the line, he sees less and less, and the next thing he knows, she files for spousal support, child support, attorneys fees, exclusive possession of the home, and then the court sets a hearing three months or six months from that point on. And by the time he has family court services mediation, the judge looks and the mediator looks and says, Well, the status quo has been really established, which means you haven't seen the kids, and um I don't want to introduce children to a sudden change. But but she said, But uh it's too late. You moved out. So, first thing, don't move out. Create a parenting agreement first with an attorney. Um another thing where she says, Oh, we would like to go on a vacation, and uh my parents live in uh you know Taiwan or Russia, no or some other non-Hague. I don't know if Taiwan is Hague, but Russia is not. So let's say she and I would like to travel with the children, and uh we we take this long trip for three months, and then next thing you know, she files for divorce and stays there for six months, and home state becomes the other state or country, and the judge cannot do much. Oh, I didn't know. I didn't know that uh I I just gave her permit and I thought she's so being naive and not getting advice enough soon enough to know the rights. Um what other things? Putting putting things in writing that later could be used against. It doesn't apply only to men, it applies to women too. So let's say she she knows how to push your buttons, she says something that triggered is triggering, and she knows that. And um you're mad, sad, drunk or not, and responds something in a text message, insulting. And that is the reason to get a restraining order. Domestic violence restraining order preventing you from contacting her, contacting children, setting a trial, getting spousal support. It's it's going on an autopilot route without even a hearing up until that point. The first hearing is going to be well, are you contesting? Yes, I'm contesting. Okay, well, then we're gonna set a trial. Let's look at our calendar. Oh, six months from today is my first available date for half a day trial. Oh, you want two days' trial because you have witnesses. Okay, next calendar date is nine months from today. Good luck. And in the meantime, you get supervised visitation. I have I have I have observed a pattern where judges set a trial date a year in advance for domestic violence restraining order that was granted on a temporary basis without a hearing. And in the meantime, the father would be presumed to be guilty because he would undergo supervised visitation, he has to go co-parenting classes, and then he would have to pay for these supervised visits. And then even if we settle the domestic violence restraining order and put it, let's say, for one year and it expires, and sure, we don't want to have 11-day trial and three-year litigation, fine, even if I'm not guilty, he says I'm willing to concede, but I want to have time with my children. Oh, you want to have time with the children? Okay, next hearing date is another six months for review hearing to see how supervised visitation is going. Oh, you know, in one case there was a uh a child asked a father, Daddy, when can we have sleepovers? And his answer was, Well, uh, mommy will decide. And Judge took that statement to extend his supervised supervised visits for another year.

SPEAKER_01 18:02

Well, man.

SPEAKER_02 18:04

Seriously, this I so not to get into that, it's building the relationship, marriage, as if it could potentially be used against you, not so this the the cases where she recorded secretly, right? Technically, secret recordings are confidential or not confidential, they're one side, the other side needs to consent unless the recording spouse expects domestic violence will happen. So then consent doesn't matter. So, how many times do I have a situation where she doesn't record all the nasty things she said to him? But she starts recording the moment he says, How dare you? Da-da-da. And she records that, presents it to the court, and says, Look, look, see how evil he is? And he's like, I didn't even know you were recording. And did you not? I there is a context, and so now he's in defense mode, uh explaining himself. It's it's critical to watch out how to speak, when to speak, walk out if emotions are too high. Don't say things you will regret, don't put it in writing, don't move out, consult an attorney. So I don't want to ramble too much to your one question.

SPEAKER_01 19:21

That's very good.

SPEAKER_00 19:23

Yeah, the the one lesson that I learned in my divorce was anything that happened in that marriage is like on is like inbounds. Um, I had no idea. Like I I really trusted, you know, my my ex-wife with with some really personal stuff. And I mean, she just like I mean, used it all. I mean, things that I was just shocked. Um use it as leverage. And um it was uh it was mean, it was flat out, it was like borderline evil. Um, and but my lesson was that person that you're with is is a different person. You know, once they decide to to make divorce, your spouse is gone. Um, and now they're your opponent um in this process. And you have to be extraordinarily careful. And I can tell you, sitting from the spot of a guy who didn't want to get divorced, I was accommodating at first. You know, move out, okay, great. Like I'll do this, I'll do that. All because I'm trying to do what this person is telling me to do. Little do I know I'm just getting more and more caught in this web. Um, and uh and so yes, Diana, I I I just amen like a thousand times all that advice. Guys, pause the podcast and replay that answer again and do that. Do that because it's gonna save you so much heartache. Um, there. So, you know, thank you for for that.

SPEAKER_02 20:50

Yeah, it's easy because in some of my situations where clients acquiesced to uh, like you said, I had a trial where five years ago she sent him a letter saying, You abuse the children, you did this, you did that, and he responded and said, I will do whatever it takes to repair the marriage, I will go to therapy, I will and and so she used that letter, you did this and that, as proof that he did it. Of course, we objected and said that's not what it is, it's just her statement, and he was doing anything and everything in it possible in his power to save the marriage. So he would say, Yes, I'm sorry, but I'm sorry doesn't mean I agree with you. It means I agree that I will do anything to save the marriage. So there is a fine line when you're in a relationship and the spouse starts accusing you in writing, that's when the first red flag should go on to say, you know, without without admitting any guilt, I would like to work on the marriage. She's gonna be mad, super mad, because she wants you to admit. About every sense she's accusing you of so that she feels good about her she wants to be right at that point. So that's where therapy comes in.

SPEAKER_01 22:11

Those are super really great answers. Um cautions. You know, I we have two psychologists here at the University of Texas here in Austin that have this show, and I heard them one time say, love like there's no tomorrow, dance like nobody's looking, and email like the FBI is gonna investigate you. I think that's pretty good advice, you know.

SPEAKER_02 22:30

So uh and text and vox and text and what's up, anything.

SPEAKER_01 22:34

And we always tell the guys, just don't do don't do social media because one thing you're gonna see when you're in your misery, you're gonna see everybody's amazing life, which we know is probably not true. And then if you do anything out there on, you know, you post and it's gonna be used against you for it's so hard, and I think guys, that's why you've got to build your own team, a couple of good friends, at least one good male friend that you can vent to that's not gonna turn you in, you know, that's gonna listen, a therapist who can listen, you gotta put it somewhere. You know, Chris and I are both big on exercise when you're in this frustrating place where you gotta hold back and you can't let your ex soon-to-be ex have it, then you gotta send that somewhere and you better might as well send it as Chris does in the boxing ring. So that's why he's gonna be world champ because he has still a lot of pent-up uh anger. Isn't that true, Chris?

SPEAKER_00 23:21

Pent up anger.

SPEAKER_01 23:23

Something I'm just kidding, man. Um, you talk about the architecture of healthy relationships. Um, and so you know, I was married 32 years, Chris. You married like 20 years, I think, or something like that. Um we know what works, what doesn't work. You said there are the key pillars. What are the what are those key pillars in a relationship that men tend to overlook uh uh until it's too late?

SPEAKER_02 23:46

Create agreements and stick to the agreements until they're mutually changed. For example, if the agreement is exclusivity, don't change it unilaterally until there is a second agreement. If the agreement is to have a financial budget and you notice she overspends, instead of being passive aggressive and uh have another account where you spend money on other things that you feel overspending too, have a conversation. If the conversation doesn't work, have therapy session. If therapy session doesn't work, well, being silent is not going to solve it. Avoidant is not going to solve it. Any type of resentment that is not addressed right away, I would say, you know, there was a saying don't go to bed mad. I would say resolve anything within 24 hours because it will take so much energy out of working life, emotional life to hold grudges and not to talk about things. Just resolve it. I learned it in in my classes. I do it with my employees, I do it with my family members, with everyone involved. And I would say I'm I'm like an airplane. I I fly light, don't carry the laggage and the baggage of the past. Release it. So if it doesn't work, then maybe it's not the right relationship. Then call me.

SPEAKER_00 25:06

Yeah. So I think that's great advice. And you know, Dale was blindsided by his divorce. And a lot of guys are, especially our listeners, tend to be blindsided by by their divorces. How does that uh if somebody is blindsided by divorce, what's the first thing they should do to regain control of the situation? So let's let's go back to your, you know, what you were saying before. Let's say blindsided by divorce, and the wife says, I want you to move out today. So, how does a man start to regain control right away? And and you know, I do have that question because that's what I got is like, you know, okay, get out. Um, what what should have been the response and what should be the response and what should guys do right away to regain control?

SPEAKER_02 25:52

Not to acquiesce, not to say yes, because guys are trained to please and appease. And when a woman says move out, the natural reaction is I will do whatever it takes to make you feel good. And that's you gotta pick who are you advocating for. Because usually the the blindsidess comes from trying to save the marriage still. The denial of falling marriage for many, many months eight years before that. It's just the question has been pending, so to say. So I would I would strongly suggest to assess to get out of denial quickly. Let's say put denial aside. Easy said than done. I have been in denial for six years. I'm giving advice I cannot follow myself. But if we put denial aside, is this real? Usually men say what they mean, women not so much. They say one thing, they mean another thing. So it's kind of really tough assignment to figure out what they really mean. Do they really want that divorce? But so we have to trust their word. If they want that divorce, then first thing I would do is consult an attorney. Not one, three. Three attorneys. Three attorneys. The reason for uh consulting why I suggest consulting three attorneys because attorneys will have three different opinions about one subject.

SPEAKER_01 27:16

Well, okay.

SPEAKER_02 27:18

It's not about the law, it's about okay, well, if I move out, what will happen? Three attorneys will have three different opinions about that. And there will be ideas that could be outside of the box that AI cannot help figure out based on experience. So first thing to assess, is it real? Most likely, yes. Most likely, 99%. Then and I I have to say, a lot of my male clients, unless they file for divorce, there is always that denial phase for a couple months. They don't respond to my emails and they want to save the marriage, and they agree to things outside of my office. And so what I do tell them right away, it's fine, you're in denial, but based on my experience, this is what's going to happen. She's asking you to move out, she's asking you to transfer $100,000 so she can spend it without asking your permission or transfer money so you don't see how she does it. And she will pay for a lawyer, she will file for divorce, and she will ask for these things. Spousal support, child support, attorneys fees, division of assets, you move out of the home. And worst case, domestic violence restraining order. So now that you know what we can do to smooth this process, and using California law concept, provide her everything she would be getting in court right now. For example, instead of transferring the money and moving out, we would say, let's create retroactivity date for spousal support, child support from the date she filed for for divorce. That will take her ammunition and the wind to file with the court and say all the nasty things she cannot take back. She will have no reason to do it. So once we calculate that, we use her income, your income, calculated. Then if you move out, then we create a custodial schedule and parenting time. And we can do it within a day. We create that schedule, she can consult an attorney, we will sign it, so we reserve the church activity. We we say she can uh each party can pre-distribute $100,000 of the joint account and spend it the way they want it, and it's going to be their separate property money. Step two. Step three parenting time, custody schedule, holiday, vacation, everything laid out. Sign this and then give the case to accountants to divide all assets. Done. No reason to fight, no reason to file, no reason to fight about the dogs or or some small stuff that is sort of a destruction. Address it heads-on right away. Don't wait. The the most horrible divorce cases I had when I was taking over cases that have been with other lawyers for eight years, when he didn't show up to the hearing, he didn't provide discovery, they had to do subpoena, they had to incur fees, they ask for $100,000 in attorney's fees. So uh, you know, the saying the more you resist, the more it persists. So whatever you resist will persist.

SPEAKER_01 30:30

That's really a great answer. I I do I think that you know, I think you, Chris, to your point, then when we're shocked, we're like, okay, here's this person I've been supporting, loving in my case 32 years, in your case many years as well. And then to realize, okay, they've shifted from being my wife, uh friend, maybe friend and wife or wife and whatever, to my enemy. And to say, okay, we have to treat this like a like hopefully it'll work out and we can still be whatever, but to shift over and say we're an adversarial relationship. I don't think the guys that we get, Diana, they're uh they're the ones who are left and have wives. We don't get so much the husbands on the other end, so our little group is small cohort of the whole divorced men thing. So they feel shocked, betrayed, and surprised usually, um, and want to be super nice, you know. So, but you're saying take it seriously, take it aggressively. And recently I worked with a guy and he did that. He was super upset with everything, but then he um but then he became a uh uh he became firm, I guess is the bright white way to say it, and she responded to that, and they actually are staying together, which is pretty amazing. So she kind of he kind of kicked it back into her court and said, Okay, this is what you want, this is what it's gonna look like. And that that produced actually reconciliation, his firmness, which is kind of cool, but yeah.

SPEAKER_02 31:53

Well, I can't. I like how you replaced aggressive to for firm because sometimes firmness is perceived as aggression, but it's just setting boundaries, and sometimes it's for the first time in your life, setting boundaries with someone who you love.

SPEAKER_00 32:05

Well, man, that's all the time we have for today. I hope you are getting something out of this because this is one of the best conversations with great tips that we've had in a while. So please take notes, listen to this podcast again, and you will get to hear the end of it in two weeks when we are back. We will talk to you all again very soon.