Indiana's Geology for Nuclear | Indiana Century S1E16

What if the solution to America's nuclear waste problem has been sitting under our feet for millions of years?

The United States has 95,000 tons of spent nuclear fuel sitting in dry casks at 79 reactor sites across the country. No permanent repository. The federal government has paid billions in damages for failing to take the fuel, with total liability expected to reach $62 billion by 2030.

Indiana has the answer. Stable sedimentary rock. Low seismic risk. No volcanoes. The Crane Naval Surface Warfare Center in southern Indiana is already a secure federal facility with the infrastructure to handle sensitive materials. It is the perfect location for a Consolidated Interim Storage Facility that could generate over one billion dollars per year in federal storage fees.

In this episode, host Kory walks through Indiana's geology from basement rock to glacial till. He explains why boring geology is exactly what you want for nuclear waste. He covers the Onkalo repository in Finland, the model for deep geological disposal. He addresses the groundwater concerns with multiple barriers: cladding, canister, bentonite clay, and hundreds of feet of low permeability rock.

Kory also covers fast reactors like FANCO's EAGL-1, which can consume spent nuclear fuel as fuel. What remains has a half-life of 300 years, not 300,000. He introduces the national security case: synthetic jet fuel production at Crane using nuclear power and captured CO₂. The U.S. military is the world's largest consumer of jet fuel. Domestic, carbon-negative fuel production is a strategic imperative.

The featured book is "Too Hot to Touch" by William M. Alley and Rosemarie Alley, the definitive history of America's failed nuclear waste policy.

Show Notes

Featured Book: Too Hot to Touch: The Problem of High-Level Nuclear Waste by William M. Alley and Rosemarie Alley

Topics: Onkalo repository, spent nuclear fuel, dry cask storage, federal liability, Indiana geology, seismic stability, Crane Naval Base, CISF, Host Community Fee, fast reactors, FANCO EAGL-1, synthetic jet fuel, national security, ICC Energy Corps

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Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:01

Hello and welcome to the Indiana Century Podcast, hosted by Corey Easterday. Episode 16, Indiana's Geology for Nuclear. Part 1. What's Under Our Feet. When most people think about building a nuclear reactor, they think about what goes above the ground. The containment dome, the cooling towers, the control room, the security fence, all the stuff that you can see. But the most important part of a nuclear plant might be the stuff that you can't see, the ground underneath it, the rock, the water, the geology that has been sitting there for millions of years, waiting for someone to ask the right questions. So where can you put a reactor safely? Not just where the grid connection is convenient or where the workforce lives. You need to find a place where the ground will not shake apart in an earthquake, where the water will not corrode your pipes, where the foundation will not sink or shift over 60 years of operation. And then there is the other question, the one that everyone asks. What about the waste? Where does it go? How do we make sure it stays safe for hundreds of thousands of years? These are not political questions, they are just geological questions. And Indiana has better answers than most people realize. Today, in episode 16, we talk about the ground under our feet, the geology that makes Indiana a surprisingly good place for nuclear power, the challenges we need to work around, and the quiet advantage that could make Indiana the permanent solution to America's spent nuclear fuel problem. But first, I need to tell you about a place in Finland. Part 2. The Finnish Model. Finland is building something extraordinary. It is called Onkalo, which means cave or hollow in Finnish. It is a deep geological repository for spent nuclear fuel, carved into the bedrock nearly 500 meters underground, about a third of a mile straight down. Here is what makes Onkelo different from every other nuclear waste project in the world. Finland picked a site, they got permits, they started digging, and they are finishing digging this year. The repository is a series of tunnels branching off of a central access shaft. At the end of each tunnel, they drill deep holes into the floor. They pack spent fuel into copper canisters, they lower the canisters into the holes, they fill the holes with bentonite clay which swells when wet and seals everything tight. Then they backfill the tunnels. Then they seal the entrance. Then they just walk away. The fuel will sit there for a hundred thousand years. By the time it becomes safe, the ice age will have come and gone. The Finnish language will have changed beyond recognition. The entire map of Europe will be different. But the copper canisters and the bentonite clay and the ancient bedrock will still be doing their job. Finland figured out something that America has been afraid to admit. The waste problem is not a technical problem, it is a political problem. We know how to store nuclear fuel safely. We have known for decades. What we do not have is the political will to pick a site and start digging. Indiana could change that. Part three. The spent fuel from a nuclear reactor is not glowing green liquid, it is not bubbling sludge, it is a ceramic solid, uranium dioxide pellets, about the size of a pencil eraser, stacked inside metal fuel rods. These rods are bundled together and then the whole assembly weighs about half a ton. After about five years in the reactor, the fuel becomes less efficient. Too many fission products have built up, absorbing neutrons that should be splitting more uranium atoms. So the reactor is shut down, the fuel is removed, and it goes into a cooling pool. These pools are about forty feet deep with water circulating to remove the decay heat. After five to ten years in the pool, the fuel is cool enough to move into dry casks. These are giant concrete and steel cylinders, each one holding about ten tons of spent fuel. The casks sit on concrete pads, they are monitored twenty four seven, they are guarded, and they are safe. That is where most of America's spent fuel is right now, sitting in dry casks at seventy nine reactor sites across the country, including at plants that have already been decommissioned. Ninety five thousand tons of it. More is being added every year. So here's the problem. The federal government promised to take this fuel starting in nineteen ninety eight. They broke that promise. They have been paying utilities billions of dollars in damages every year. The total liability by twenty thirty will be about sixty two billion dollars. The Department of Energy is paying six hundred to eight hundred million dollars every single year just for failing to do what they said that they would do. But that's where the opportunity comes in. The government needs a place to put this fuel. They have the money to pay for it. They have the legal authority to compel states to accept it, but they cannot force anyone. They need a volunteer. And Indiana could be that volunteer. Indiana could be that volunteer. And here is the kicker. We do not just want to store the waste. We want to consume it. Right now, light water reactors use about one percent of the energy in uranium fuel. That's right, one percent. ninety nine percent remains as waste. It's not actually waste, it's still fuel. We just haven't built the reactors that can burn it yet. Indiana could be the first to build them. Part four. Indiana's Geology. Here is what most people don't know about Indiana. The ground under our feet is boring. And boring is exactly what you want for nuclear waste. Let me walk you through Indiana's geology from bottom to top. So at the basement level, at the very bottom, more than a mile down, is ancient crystalline rock. Granite, nice, schist. This is the same kind of rock that Finland is using for Oncolo. It is very hard, it is stable, and it has been sitting there for a billion years. It's not going anywhere. The sedimentary layers are above the basement. Indiana has thousands of feet of sedimentary rock, limestone, sandstone, shale. These layers were deposited over hundreds of millions of years when Indiana was covered by shallow seas. They are flat, they are continuous and predictable. There are no major fault lines cutting through them, no volcanoes, no earthquakes. Above that is the glacial till. At the very top, covering most of the state, is a layer of glacial till, dirt and rocks and clay left behind by the ice sheets that covered Indiana during the last ice age. This layer is fifty to three hundred feet thick, depending on where you are. It's not great for building foundations, but it is excellent for hiding things. You can bury a repository deep in the sedimentary rock and put hundreds of feet of glacial till on top of it. Nothing is going to get through that. So let's talk about what Indiana does not have. Earthquakes? The New Madrid seismic zone is down in Missouri, hundreds of miles away. Indiana feels a little shaking from time to time, but nothing like California or Japan. What about volcanoes? None of those here. The last volcanic activity in Indiana was hundreds of millions of years ago. What about the groundwater? Most of it is in shallow aquifers near the surface. The deep sedimentary rock has low permeability. Water does not move through it quickly. And last I want to talk about the Crane Advantage. Southern Indiana is a little different. The Crane Naval Surface Warfare Center is located there. It is already a secure federal facility, it has restricted access, it already has the infrastructure to handle sensitive materials, and it is sitting on top of some of the most stable geology in the state. The Indiana Century Project proposes a consolidated interim storage facility at Crane, a place where spent fuel from across the country can be stored safely, securely, and economically. The federal government would pay Indiana storage fees to hold fuel here. At scale, that could be a billion dollars a year or more. Indiana provides the geology, the security, and the political will. It is a deal that works for everyone. Part five, Sighting Reactors. The exact same geology that makes Indiana good for waste storage also makes Indiana good for reactor siting. But there are additional considerations. First, seismic stability. Indiana is in a low to moderate seismic zone. The U.S. Geological Survey maps show that the probability of a damaging earthquake in Indiana is much lower than in California, Alaska, or the Pacific Northwest. Small modular reactors are designed to shut down safely even in a major earthquake. But building in a low seismic zone is still preferable. Next, we have to talk about flood risk. Many of Indiana's retiring coal plants are located on rivers. The Ohio River, Wabash, White River. These sites already have cooling water access. They already have grid connections, but they also have flood risk. The Fukushima accident was caused by a tsunami, but the lesson applies to any site. You need to know the worst case flood scenario and build above it. Next, we'll talk about groundwater. Reactors need water for cooling, but they also need to protect groundwater from contamination. Indiana's deep sedimentary layers provide a natural barrier. Even if something went wrong, the geology would contain it. Help make sure that it stays out of our drinking water. Next is proximity to population. Small modular reactors are designed to be safe enough to build near cities, but zoning and public acceptance are easier if you build on existing industrial sites. Coal plant sites are perfect because people are already used to heavy industry being there. The best sites in Indiana are retiring coal plant sites. So what would be the best sites in Indiana? Based on existing coal plants, grid access, cooling water, and geology, we can look at Spencer County's Rockport, which has 2,600 megawatts, Gibson County's Gibson Plant, 3,100 megawatts, Floyd County's Gallagher Plant, 500 MW, Pike County's Petersburg Plant, 2,100 MW, and LaPorte County, Michigan City, has 500 megawatts. Each of these sites already has transmission lines, cooling water, a trained workforce nearby, and local governments that understand heavy industry. These are the first places we need to look to replace them with SMRs. Part 6. Too hot to touch. This episode's featured book is Too Hot to Touch: The Problem of High Level Nuclear Waste by William M. Alley and Rosemary Alley. Bill Alley spent his career at the U.S. Geological Survey, where he led the technical work on the Yucca Mountain Repository Project. He knows the geology, the politics, and the history better than almost anyone. Rosemary Alley is a science writer who makes the technical details understandable. When the nuclear energy industry was launched in the 1950s, Robert Oppenheimer dismissed the waste problem as unimportant. Over a half century later, the waste issue is as prominent as reactor safety in the international controversies surrounding nuclear power. It is particularly topical in the U.S. since the 2010 closure of the Yucca Mountain Repository Project. With no long-term plan in sight, high-level radioactive waste remains scattered across 121 sites in 39 states. William and Rosemary Alley provide an engaging and authoritative account of the controversies and possibilities surrounding disposal of nuclear waste in the United States, with reference also to the difficulties and progress of other countries around the world. The book tells the full history from the early days after World War II up to the present time, with an insightful perspective drawn from William Alley's experience in the field, including leading the U.S. Geological Survey study of Yucca Mountain. Stories of key players bring to life the pioneering science, the political wrangling, and media drama. And the Not in My Backyard Communities Fighting to Put the Waste Somewhere Else. Written in down-to-earth language, this is a fascinating book for public interest groups, affected communities, and anyone interested in finding out more about this issue. The timely and important subject also makes it a valuable resource for policymakers, political staff, environmentalists, and research scientists working in related fields. Here is what the Allies teach us. First, the waste problem is not technical, it is political. We have known how to dispose of high level nuclear waste safely for decades. The science is already settled. The engineering is proven. What we do not have is the political will to pick a site and start digging. Finland figured this out. The United States has not. Second, Yucca Mountain failed for political reasons, not geological ones. The Allies walked through the entire history of the Yucca Mountain Project. The science was sound, the site was suitable, but Nevada did not want it. Senator Harry Reid made sure it never opened. The lesson is not that we need better science. The lesson is that we need a volunteer state, a state that wants jobs, the federal investment, and the host fees. Third, dry cask storage is safe, but not permanent. The alleys are clear that leaving spent fuel in dry casks at multiple sites across the country is not a long term solution. The casks are designed to last a hundred, maybe two hundred years. That is just a pause, not an answer to this long-term problem. The deep geological repository is the only permanent solution. Fourth, Finland is the model. The Allies spend significant time on Oncolo. They show how Finland succeeded where the United States failed. Finland started with community consent, they built trust, they let local governments have veto power, and they kept working until they found a site that said yes. The Allies end with a challenge. They say the United States has a moral obligation to solve their waste problem. Not for ourselves, but for future generations. We have already created this waste. We have the technology to dispose of it safely. The only thing missing is the will. Indiana can supply that will. This is probably the most common and most legitimate concern. People imagine barrels leaking, contamination spreading through aquifers, and drinking water becoming poisoned. So let me address it directly. First, the fuel is not a liquid, it is a ceramic solid. Uranium dioxide pellets that are extremely insoluble in water. They do not dissolve like salt. They don't leak oil, they are rocks. Hard, dense, chemically stable rocks. Second, the fuel is enclosed in multiple barriers. The zirconium alloy cladding is the first barrier. It is corrosion resistant and designed to last for centuries. The fuel pellets themselves are the second barrier. They are ceramic and do not readily release radioactive material. The canister itself is actually the third barrier. Thick steel or copper, welded shut. The bentonite clay would be the fourth barrier. When it gets wet, it swells, sealing any gaps and preventing water from flowing past. The surrounding rock is the fifth barrier. Deep, stable, low permeability rock that has held fluids in place for millions of years. Third, even if all barriers failed, the radioactive material would have to travel through hundreds of feet of rock to reach any groundwater used for drinking. The same geology that makes Indiana stable also makes it slow. Water moves through deep sedimentary rock at a glacial pace. By the time any contamination reached a well, the radioactive isotopes would have decayed or been diluted to undetectable levels. Fourth, we have natural proof that this works. The Aucklo natural reactor in Gabon operated two billion years ago. Fission reactions occurred spontaneously in a uranium deposit underground. The waste products from that natural reactor have moved less than a few meters from where they were created. Two billion years ago. That is the time scales we're talking about. The geology has held. The real risk is not from a deep geological repository. The real risk is from leaving spent fuel in dry casks on the surface above the water table, vulnerable to accidents, weather, and eventual corrosion. A deep repository is the safer solution. That is why Finland is building one, and that is why Indiana should too. Objection two. What about the New Madrid Fault? Could an earthquake crack a repository? The New Madrid Fault is one hundred and fifty miles from Indiana's southern border. A major earthquake there would be felt in Indiana, but the shaking would be moderate. SMRs and dry casks are designed to withstand much stronger shaking. A repository at Crane, sitting on deep stable rock would be just fine. Objection three, I do not want nuclear waste in my county. That is completely fair. No one wants to be the host. This is why we have host community fees. Storage fees at Crane could generate a billion dollars a year or more. That money would go directly to property tax relief, schools, rural health clinics, and animal welfare. It terms NIMBY, not in my backyard, into welcome neighbor, and it is locked in by constitutional amendment. The legislature would not be able to take it away. Objection four. Can we really trust geology to contain waste for 100,000 years? We trust geology every day. The oil and gas industry has been drilling into ancient rock formations for more than a century. Those formations have held oil and gas for hundreds of millions of years. If they can keep hydrocarbons trapped, they can keep nuclear waste trapped. The difference is that we are putting the waste there on purpose, not just hoping it stays. We can engineer the canisters, the clay, and the backfill to make sure that it does. Objection five. Why not just keep waste where it is? Because the current system is temporary. Dry casks are safe, but they are not permanent. They require monitoring, maintenance, and security forever. A deep geological repository requires none of that. You seal it and you walk away. It is the only permanent solution. And the federal government is already paying billions of dollars in damages because they promised a permanent solution and did not deliver. Indiana can solve that problem and get paid for it. Part eight. The fast reactor. Not if we build fast reactors. Fast reactors use high energy neutrons to split atoms. They can consume spent nuclear fuel as fuel. The fuel that comes out of a traditional nuclear reactor still has more than 90% of its potential energy left. A fast reactor can burn that fuel. What is left is a half-life of 200 to 300 years, not 200,000 to 300,000 years. Just to put that into perspective, uh 300,000 years is about 12,000 generations. How are we going to plan for something for 12,000 generations? We really should just build the fast reactors. That way we can take the waste that we already have, reduce it by 99.999%, and then we're left with a 300-year manageable problem as opposed to a 300,000-year problem. In other words, this turns a geological problem into an engineering problem. You do not need to isolate waste for hundreds of thousands of years. You just need to store it for a few centuries while the fast reactor burns through the rest of the fuel. FANCO, first American nuclear company, the company I mentioned in episode 14, is headquartered in Indianapolis. Their Eagle One is a lead bismuth-cooled fast reactor. They are working on the regulatory process now. If they succeed, Indiana could be home to the first commercial fast reactor in the United States. A reactor that turns waste into fuel. A reactor that solves the problem instead of passing it on to countless future generations. And there is something else. A fast reactor produces high-temperature heat. That heat can do more than make electricity. It can power industrial processes. It can produce synthetic jet fuel. The US military is the single largest consumer of jet fuel on Earth. Four billion gallons are used every year. Every single drop is imported or refined from foreign crude. That supply chain is vulnerable to geopolitics, hurricanes, and cyber attacks. Indiana can offer a solution. At Crane Naval Base, we could produce carbon-negative synthetic jet fuel using nuclear power. We can capture CO2 using this waste heat. We can create green hydrogen. This would be domestic, resilient, and produced on a secure military installation right here in the United States. This isn't environmentalism. It is actually national security. Part nine. Fast reactors are the bridge to that reality. They take the waste we have already created and turn it into fuel. They generate carbon-free power while we build out solar, wind, geothermal, and storage. And when the spent fuel is gone, when the last cask is emptied, we just shut them down. No new uranium mining is required for this process. No new enrichment, just consumption of what we already dug out of the ground. This is the difference between extractive and circular. Traditional nuclear is extractive. Mine uranium, burn 1% of it, store the rest as waste. Fast reactors are circular. They consume what we already have. They turn a liability into an asset and then they retire. The Indiana Century Project is not pro-nuclear forever. It is pro-solving the waste problem. It is pro-building a bridge to a renewable future, and it is pro doing both with technology that already exists, proven by the IFR at Argon National Lab, and now being commercialized by FANCO right here in Indianapolis. That is sovereignty. Not just building reactors, but building the whole system from fuel to power to waste to fuel again. And then when the job is done, we walk away into a renewable future. Part ten. Conclusion and preview. This episode was about the ground under our feet, the quiet advantage Indiana does not know it has. Stable geology, low seismic risk, existing industrial sites, a federal facility at Crane that could host a permanent solution to America's waste problem. The waste problem is not a technical one, it is political. Finland proved that. They picked a site, they got permits, they started digging. They will be done soon. America has been debating for 40 years. Indiana can break the stalemate. And when fast reactors come online, the waste which we have already generated becomes fuel. The 300,000-year problem becomes a 300-year manageable project. Then renewables take over. That is the full vision. Consume what we have already mined, clean up what we've already created, then move on. The Allies wrote Too Hot to Touch to explain why America has failed to solve the waste problem. Their answer is simple. It is not the science, it is the politics. Finland succeeded because they found a willing community. The United States has not. Indiana can be that willing community. Next week in episode 17, the fuel frontier. Where does nuclear fuel come from? How do we enrich uranium? What is HALU and why does it matter? And can Indiana build a fuel fabrication facility that makes us independent from Russia and Chinese supply chains? Before we get there, I want you to think about something. The spent fuel sitting in dry casks all across the country is not waste. It is still fuel. We have just not built the reactors that can burn it yet. When we do, the problem becomes the solution. And the solution comes with a national security bonus. Domestic carbon negative jet fuel for the U.S. military. I'm Corey, this is the Indiana Century Podcast. And remember, sovereignty isn't given, it is built.