I Thought I Was Watching the Whole Game

When I was a kid, I used to sit on the bonnet of an HR Holden and watch my dad play country footy.

I thought I understood the game.

But years later I realised something strange: I had only ever been watching half of it.

In this episode of The C-Word, I look at what happens when women step into sporting spaces that were never originally built for them.

From ill-fitting guernseys and dodgy change rooms to online abuse aimed at women players, commentators and umpires, women’s sport still provokes reactions that go well beyond the game itself.

Along the way we talk about:

• why women’s sport suddenly grows when it becomes visible

• the history of women being pushed out of football despite drawing huge crowds

• why gay women seem to find space in sport while gay men still struggle to come out in the AFL

• and why being a woman in sport can sometimes feel like being a vegan handed a chicken schnitzel.

Technically you’ve been served dinner.

It’s just not made for you.

Content Note
This podcast gets into bodies, panic attacks, trauma, sexism, mental health, and the occasional emotional sinkhole. Please look after yourself only listen when you feel safe to engage with potentially triggering material. 
Also, I swear.

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Credits
Recorded on the lands of the Ramindjeri and Ngarrindjeri peoples.
Sovereignty never ceded.

Recorded & edited at Ridley Farm Studio by Luke Ridley
https://ridleyfarmstudio.com.au...

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:02

Danny said something that really stayed with me. She said playing sport as a woman can sometimes feel like being a vegan and being handed a plate of meat. Technically, you've been served dinner. It's just not made for you. I grew up around football, uh Australian rules football. And for most of my life I thought I understood the game. I I loved it. But it turns out I was only ever watching half of it. I'm Catherine Redden, and this is the C-word. It's a feminist podcast for women and feminist allies who want somewhere thoughtful to land when it comes to feminism. Somewhere curious. Somewhere that isn't about shouting at each other, but about understanding the world we live in. Somewhere that's that that sits in that existential crisis between, yeah, we've got the vote, but a lot of stuff still feels icky. Look, and I'm a white woman. I live in Australia, I'm very aware of the many, many ways I live with incredible privilege. Women in Australia have the vote. In fact, South Australia, where I was born and where this podcast is coming to you today from, um, SA was the second place in the world to give women the vote after New Zealand. But it's important to remember that when South Australia, when South Australian women got the vote, it was not afforded to Aboriginal women or Aboriginal men. Legally speaking, women have come a long way. Or rather, the rights afforded to us have come a long way. Women can vote, women can drive. Look, and as I say this, I'm aware that it's not in every country, but largely women can vote, women can drive, women can go to university, women can run businesses, women can own property, women can marry and divorce. On paper, equality has made enormous progress. But to me that's not enough because equality can exist in an active parliament and still not exist in everyday life. And the places where that gap becomes really visible is sport. Some of my earliest memories, actually, my earliest memory, is sitting on the bonnet of the HR Holden, watching my dad play football. I remember the oval, I remember looking up and back as the players ran up and back between the goalposts. I remember the wind in the gum trees. I think it was at Border Town. It was an association match. I remember the ball flying backwards and forwards, the thump of the boots on the grass, the whistle of the umpire, the shouting from the men on the field and the supporters, and that smell that hangs around footy change rooms, deep heat and sweat. And I remember the shouting a lot, the chat-the good, not bad, angry shouting, but there was a lot of shouting. You know, when they were shouting, it was like the game mattered more than anything else in the world. And in lots of ways it did. Because in Australia, especially in country Australia where I grew up, sport isn't just sport, it's belonging. We had sport on Saturdays and church on Sundays, school Monday to Friday. That was the rhythm of my life. Country sport is where communities gather. I remember the cold, freezing cold Maui mornings where we'd drive from geranium to Murrowville, so my brothers could play mini cults at eight o'clock in the morning. Now the drive from geranium to Murrowville is about it's a couple of hours. Hot after hot summer afternoons, playing tennis at Sherlock with those goddamn long drop toilets with the flies and the red bags, constantly looking for snakes. You know, putting on your uniforms, standing on the oval. When I say footy, I always mean in the country, it always means a football and netball club. I grew up playing netball, and my brothers played footy. Putting on your uniform, standing on the oval, standing on the court. People tooting their horns when your team kicked a goal, drinks at the pub or the bowling club afterwards. And as a kid, I loved all of that. The noise, the rhythm, the rhythm, the smells. Sitting with in my grandma's car, eating chicken sandwiches, um, sipping, you know, tea from the thermos, or from the cup, which was poured from the thermos. Um people arguing during the week about who should be picked, who shouldn't be picked, player transfers, which were very political in the country. It didn't feel it felt important, but more than that, it was just my life. It was sport was a part and footy was a part of my life. And it felt like it wasn't, it's hard to describe, and but I will because I'm a podcaster. And I hate it when other podcasters say it's hard to describe. Um when I look back and think about it, it was important and it wasn't important because it was part of the fabric of life. It was like saying a button and a buttonhole are important. Of course they are. And I I thought I understood the game. I really thought I understood the game. Because I under well, I don't know, no one who supports AFL understands the rules, but I can understand the strategy, and I can understand talent versus effort, and I can understand intent versus execution, and I can understand defense, defense, defense, I sound American. I was about to say offense, but I refuse to say that. I can understand defense and attack, I can understand the s the changes in the game, you know, meaning the you know uh the increase of player rotations and handball, all of that stuff. And I knew as a kid that I mean, I I didn't know that I understood it. It's just something that we, you know, on the way home from a footy match, we would always, even as little kids, just because dad was often the coach of the A grade as well as playing, we would discuss who the best players were and why they were the best players. And we didn't discuss it, it was never malicious, it was always very clinical. And back then I thought I was watching the whole game. Uh when I went to when I went to Nord Oval, well, so back then I thought I was watching the whole game. You know, when I watched my dad play footy um for our local team, the Geranium Panthers. Um when I went to Nord Oval to watch Norwo play, which was the team dad had played for in the SNFL, the South Australian National Football League, um, I thought I was watching the whole game. When I started barracking for the Adelaide Crows, um those dreadful aluminium seats at Footy Park, and then at Adelaide Oval, you know, when I saw them at the G at the Melbourne Cricket Ground win two back-to-back flags, I thought I was watching the whole game. But I wasn't. Because there are a lot of people who love sport just as much as my dad did, just as much as I did, who weren't allowed on that field at all. Now it would be easy to say women's sport faces barriers, less funding, less media coverage, fewer, poorer facilities. All of that is true. But the question that interests me the most is why does the idea of women playing sport still provoke such strong bloody reactions? You only have to go to the comments section of any about any women's it's particularly in women's sport, women's sports that were traditionally male dominated, like Australian Wolves football, like motor sport, like um it to a less much lesser extent, soccer and cricket. Even with football, it's really interesting. It's not only the players that people lose their minds about, beautiful tiny little minds, um, but it's female commentators, women umpires. If you want to see a comment section, and it's not just nasty, it's vitriolic and abusive and aggressive, go and have a look at any post that Caroline Wilson Caroline Wilson features on. I think I've got her name wrong. Because I grew up with a Caroline Wilson. Anyway, Caro Caro is a sports commentator or Kelly Underwood. Go and have a look at any post online that they are featured in, and you will see stuff that makes your skin crawl. So I'm really interested in why does the idea of women playing sport and commentating on sport provoke such strong, unhinged reactions? Why does it make people so uncomfortable? Why does it make people angry? And look, it's usually men in those comments. It's usually sometimes women, but it's usually men going like going off their brains about a woman daring to have an opinion on sport. How dare we? I'm interested in why why well it's perfectly acceptable for women to play netball or volleyball, but it's controversial when women compete in sports historically coded as male. I recently had absolute pleasure of speaking to Danny, a young woman who plays community footy and cricket in regional South Australia. Grassroots sport. Which actually, if you think about it, is where most sport actually happens. People playing simply because they love the game, they want to be involved in their community. They're doing it for physical fitness reasons, for mental health reasons, for community reasons, hanging out with their mates, having a good time, getting out of their heads and into their bodies and onto the field. Danny told me that when she switched from netball to footing and cricket, she felt more included. Look, and I concur with what she said next because I am a girl who lives in a larger body, and I experience this in netball. Netball can sometimes be difficult for women with larger bodies, and I don't mean physically, I don't mean physically. I mean when you're a when you're a girl who is larger, uh for me, for instance, I was five foot nine when I was 11 years old, so very tall and very broad-shouldered, but a little bit I wasn't as I didn't have the hand-eye coordination of some of my other um people that I played sport with, and so I was stuck at goalkeeper or gold offense. If you see a tall girl at Gold Defense who's slightly bigger than other girls, you you'll know that she has experienced some of what Danny and I are. I mean, I'm just I'm just gonna call it it's body shaming. Not all netball clubs, but definitely when I was playing in the 70s and 80s, definitely the netball club that I was associated with. Danny said when she moved to footy and cricket, she found a community where she felt embraced, and people were there. You know, the volunteers and the coach and her teammates were there, they just wanted to get better at the game. That was it. Regardless of your body shape, regardless of your talents, regardless of your experience, the team and the support staff who are interested in you being the best version of yourself. So that oh sorry, that's my stomach grumbling. I haven't had breakfast yet. Oh, and I forgot to take the clock out of the room so you might be able to hear the ticking. Yes, welcome to the party of my direct existence as a podcaster from the from the doing it from the ground up. Danny really felt like she'd found home when she when she changed from netball to cricket and footy. She told me about an Anzac Day match in about 2017 or 18. So this is footy that she played in. So the women's competition she was playing in were scheduled to play after the men's Anzac Day game. And for those of my listeners not in Australia, um Anzac Day is a day where we commemorate humans who have served in war or in the military, and it's a it's a big day on the Australian calendar. Um, there are marches and parades in most capital cities, and in the last couple of decades, um there are footy matches. I think there are rugby league matches, but there are there's definitely the Anzac Day match on the AFL calendar, is a is uh is second only to the grand final in importance. It's a play between Collingwood and Essendon, it's a really big day, and so that has trickled down to you know other levels of sport, and they have Anzac Day clashes as well. And so Danny was uh playing in this Anzac Day match, so it's a massive deal. And what made it more massive is that the women's competition had been scheduled to play after the men's, and why that's important is because there would be people there already who had gone to watch the men's match who would who would stay around to watch the women's. It doesn't happen the other way. If you put the women's on first, most people won't make an effort to go and watch the women's, they'll just go to the men's. So it's it, you know, the league had thought really carefully about how to promote and support this women's match. And Danny's team and the opposition team were super grateful for this opportunity. You know, excited, grateful, looking forward to playing. And then um they on they were changing into their uniforms. You normally have special Anzac, not special, but they people normally make an Anzac Day Guernsey for just that much. So they went to the change rooms, they collected their Guernseys, and as they put them on, they realized that they were the men's jumpers because they were very tight across the bust and very tight across the hips. Clearly designed for the male body. But nobody complained, everybody got on with it. Was it uncomfortable? Yeah, it was because when you're running around and sweating already and you're having to do it in fabric that's not very forgiving, it's I'd look at those footy jumpers and I see the plasticky synthetic stuff, and it's just you know, it's made to look good on television, not made to not made to feel good when you're wearing it. And so the women, so the material's already unforgiving, and then you've got it that's not designed for breasts and hips. Um yeah, so but they they everyone in the team just got on with it because we're you're invited into a space that's not built for you. You often feel like you have to accept whatever you're given. And Danny said something that truly stayed with me. She said, playing sport as a woman can feel like being a vegan and being handed a plane of meat and having to feel like and and having to accept it because you've been fed. Technically, you've been served dinner. It's just not made for you. If you've ever stood beside a country footy ground, you'll know that moment. The ball goes up. Side note, we used to say the ball was bounced, but in 2026, onwards, the ball will always go up. I don't have an opinion about it, I just want to get on with the game. But and if you also if you want to go and see some unhinged comments, go and see footy fans talking about the ball up versus the bounce. It's um it's frightening/slash hysterical. So the ball goes up. 36 players charge towards it. I mean, that's not quite how it happens, but you know, for dramatic effect. The crowd holds its breath. You get very excited, you know, the ball hits the ground, somebody marks the ball, somebody hand passes the ball, somebody gets tackled, and it's on. But here's the thing I didn't understand as a kid every game has sidelines, and someone decides who gets to stand on them. And somewhere on that boundary line, someone is still waiting for their turn. And in 2026, the people waiting for that turn on that boundary line were at the Winter Olympics, and they were women who were not allowed to compete in something called the Norwegian Combine. So, still in 2026, women are being excluded from sport. Sometimes the hardest part of progress isn't the change, it's the feedback that something needs changing in the first place. Because humans are not very comfortable with being wrong. I notice I notice this in myself all the time. I think I'm a great ally. I think I'm a great ally. And I'm gonna get this wrong now too. LGBQTI plus L. I think I'm a great fucking ally. My best friend is a gay Aboriginal man. Shout out Simon. I'm the greatest fucking ally there is. But but if I meet a non-binary person and I misgender them and get corrected, my first reaction isn't grace, it's embarrassment, it's irritation, it's feeling stupid, it's anger because I respect that fucking person. How dare they correct me? You know, it's it's a really weird reaction, and it's because being corrected is really uncomfortable, and that, my friends and foes, I hope you're all friends, but that's a very human reaction. Humans organize themselves into teams because we're a very tribal animal. We organize ourselves into political teams, and I only laugh because if you don't think that's true, just have a look have a look at the news, have a look at what's going on. I just I find it you know, just a tiny little diversion here. I find it at the same time fascinating, funny, and disgusting that people seem in particular in the United States of America, seem to care whether a Democrat or a Republican is in the Epstein files. You know, we see that man saying, oh, but the Democrats are blah blah blah in it more. I don't care who you fucking vote for, and I don't care about your personal political values, don't have any bearing of What you may or may have done on that island or that jet or that resort or that hotel or that apartment. And back to the show. Humans organize themselves into teams: political teams, cultural teams, sporting teams, neighborhood teams, family teams, um, shopping teams, Instagram teams, Facebook group teams, cake teams. We're on team, you know, your your reality show will have a are you at the moment? I I love maths. I'm a real reality show tragic. And if you're watching Australian Married at First Sight, you'll be Team Beck or Team Rachel or Team Gia or Team Juliet. Just a side side note, and interestingly note that that's all women. The men are are obstinately more horrific on these shows than the women, but it is the women who'll be pitted against each other. When someone challenges a system we belong to, so for like when I've called a non-binary person she instead of they, and when I get challenged on that, and it's typically in a very polite way, um, but when we're challenged on that, we can feel like our team is under attack and our place in that team is in question. And in sport, sport just amplifies that instinct. I mean, I jokingly used to say a little bit of this. I mean, I've considered myself quite rational. I had a dating profile once that said I'll consider anybody except a Port Adelaide supporter. And like most of me knows that's irrational. But if I have to sit there with someone who doesn't understand that Port Adelaide tried to decimate the SANFL competition when they lied and tried to get into the AFL before the cross. If I have to sit there with someone who doesn't understand how morally reprehensible that was, oh excuse me, I'm not sure I can. Humans, we all pick a side, we pick multiple sides and sides, and when when we get we want to we want that side to win. Sit down, girls and boys. We're going to have a little history test. I should say, I always feel like I'm not when I say girls and boys, I'm actually not trying to exclude non-binary people. It's it's difficult for me to say, but I'll say, sit down, small humans and big sit down, every fucking human, Arnie Catherine's gonna tell you a story. In August 1921, and this is in Australia, in August 1921, so over a hundred years ago, August would have been cold, a women's football match at the MCG, which again, if you're not Australian, I need to explain the cultural context. Um, the Melbourne Cricket Ground is a beautiful, magnificent stable uh stable stadium in Melbourne, um, really close to the centre of town, close to the Yarrow River, and it's the home of cricket in Australia, but it's also the home of Australian rules football, and it's where the most important Australian rules football matches are played, and indeed there is a contract in place to say that the grand final must must be played at the Melbourne Cricket Ground. There are only very few exceptions to that. One was COVID, and I think another was when it was under reconstruction. But the the G, we call it the G, it's a very, very important place. It's the Mecca of Footy. It's our Taj Mahal. It's the G. In August 1921, a women's football match at the G drew around 25,000 spectators. But within a year of that day, football authorities banned women from playing footy on league grounds. And the explanation they gave at the time was that footy was too rough, it was too demanding, too unladylike. But I want to tell you what actually was happening at that time, is that women's matches were drawing crowds just as large, if not larger, than the men's. And this is factual and it is historic and it is recorded, and it is rarely ever if if I've never heard it spoken about before. I did the research. Doesn't mean it hasn't been spoken about, it's not spoken about often. And I just want to I just want to go over this point again that in 2020, in 1921, women's matches were drawing. Look, a 25,000 people is a lot to go to the footy on a Sunday Saturday afternoon and to watch a women's match, and the the crowds were as big, if not bigger, for the women. And yet a year later, women were banned from playing on that ground, and banned from playing on any league ground. One official said, sorry, and I'm just sitting up. I mean, I have been sitting up, but I'm changing position because I'm on the bed. Cross-legged, if you must know. One official said, and this is actually so horrifying. Women playing football is like seeing a dog walk on its hind legs. It's not done well, but you were surprised to see it done at all. Now you can laugh at that joke when you first hear it, but it's not fucking funny. Like it's not, it's n it's not It is designed to put women down. It is designed to get one tribe laughing and ridiculing and not valuing another side, and those sides are men and women. Um it shows up every day. I haven't doom scrolled much on Facebook this morning, but I'm sure if I did and I went to any post about Caroline Wilson or Kelly Underwood or a woman who's an umpire at AFL level, there would be comments that there was one comment, and I did screenshot it um yesterday where Caroline Wilson was um giving her opinion. I can't even remember what she was giving her opinion about, but she is a highly respected, highly experienced footy journalist who happens to have a vagina. And I think she was talking with Kane Corns, who's a really hated commentator, right? And so normally, if it was just Kane, oh FYI, I don't hate Kane Corns, unpopular opinion. Um, but I'm sorry, and that's my stomach starting to gurgle because I have a thing and I haven't had breakfast. So I again we are all waiting for me to get back to Luke's studio, Ridley Farm Studios. Shout out Luke, um, so this recording can sound better. Yeah, and and and in this, there was one comment and it said some and I'll find it, I screenshotted it, I'll find it and and put it up on my socials, but it said something like I'd rather I'd rather agree with Kelly Underwood than Caroline Wilson, and that's saying a lot. That seems innocuous, but in an industry that has thousands and thousands of commentators, the AFL's a massive industry. It's a multi-billion dollar industry. No not very many female commentators, not very many women commentators at all, to say that is really odd and really fucking dark. The other thing that that happens a lot in well, I don't know whether it's so when women first started, but it probably still happens, I just don't see it. When when when women first started playing AFL professionally, there was a lot of sexualized commentary. Um one example that stayed with me involved AFL absolute legend Erin Phillips. She played for my team initially, the Adelaide Crows, and then she played for Port Adelaide. Um, I'm not gonna say anything about Port. I'm just not. Um she was an incredible footballer. She won the AFLW's Best and Fairest Award, the inaugural Best and Fairest Award, and she kissed her partner. They announced she was the winner at the table. She kissed her partner, and then she went up on stage to receive her award. It was a moment of joy, you know, it was a it's a very significant moment in women's in sport and in women's football in particular, and it should have been completely unremarkable. It was a peck. Something that happens at um MVP awards across the world for any sport. Their name gets announced, they're sitting at a table with their partner, they embrace their partner. But one commentator, Mark Robinson, Mark Robinson, chose to comment in a way that sexualized the moment. And he commented on it on AFL 360. Oh, oh, I need to say that Erin's partner is a woman. So what's it was her wife. So what struck me really was not that the co-comment was inappropriate. I mean, that struck me, but it just that it revealed something so much because he had a co-host and the co-host didn't say anything. So it just revealed something so much deeper about how women in sport are still viewed. Because we had never analyzed how a male player celebrating with his female partner at the table might be pornographic and it might excite a section of the of the community. Essentially, Mike Robinson was saying that the that a lesbian kiss, a platonic lesbian kiss between two women, may be seen as pornographic by heterosexual males. He wasn't talking about, didn't care about the pleasure of lesbians. We could unpack this a lot, but he you know, when blokes celebrate like this, we don't analyze it, we don't sexualise it, we just accept it. It's just normal. But when women do the same thing, suddenly the conversation changes. And that raises another question, which is really interesting to me, and I think really dark as well. Why are there openly gay women playing professional sport in Australia? Openly gay women playing AFLW and other sports, but no openly gay men playing AFL. It's statistically just about impossible that there are no gay men playing professional AFL. So what that and this is actually a topic for another podcast, but just what that suggests to me is that something much darker is going on. Because if gay men don't feel safe enough to come out in professional football, maybe the culture still has a lot of work to do. You can have all the fucking pride games you want until you have a man who is currently playing AFL in the men's competition until he feels comfortable to come out, there is something wrong. And that something wrong often spills over into women's sport. And yet, you know, I'm so proud of all of the women who play AFLW and the gay women that choose to come out or be out and play AFLW, they keep playing. Those same female and women, not female and women, women keep commentating on sport, they keep umpiring, they keep coaching, they keep playing, and every time they do, every time they do, whether it's at a local level or a professional level, the definition of who belongs in sport shifts a little bit. By the age of 15, nearly half of girls in Australia have dropped out of organised sport. And look, I was one of them. I played tennis and netball in primary school. I swam competitively at boarding school, and then after I left school, I stopped. And these days, the closest I get to sport is bird bingo. Bird bingo is such a good game. If you haven't played bird bingo, get on it. Also, also, family champion at Giant Yingo. Giant Giant Yuno, Giant Yuno is also another fantastic game. You know, sometimes I think about that little girl sitting on the bonnet of the HR watching her dad play football. She loved those times, you know. I not talking about myself in the third person again. I I loved going to the footy and watching dad play. I I just absolutely loved it. It was my favorite, favorite time of the week. When I think about that little girl now though, she thought she was watching the whole game. She thought the oval in front of her was the whole story. But she wasn't seeing the empty space beside it. The space where other players should have been standing. The place where other players should have been welcome. To just go and have a kick at the footy and enjoy time with their mates. When I was a kid watching dad play footy, I thought I was watching the whole game. But I wasn't. I was only watching half of it. I'm not sure if the microphone's picked up the cuckoo clock, but that's definitely my sign to wind things up. But before I go, I want to thank you for listening. This podcast has now had 98 downloads in five countries, and I'm just so proud of that. Um it's I mean, it's gonna sound a little bit wanky, but I feel like I've really come home when I podcast. Um it's this podcast is a one-woman operation, and I'm incredibly grateful for everyone who's encouraged me to keep going. If you would like to support this podcast, there's a couple of tangible ways that you can. Um, you can leave a review on Apple Podcasts, you can rate the show on Spotify, you can join the Facebook group with the C word. There's a link in the show notes, um, be part of the conversation. There's also a link in the show notes for Patreon Substack or buy me a coffee. So there are monetary ways you can support this podcast, which I would be eternally grateful for. Um, because at the moment I am saving to get to refurbish my laptop and get some better equipment, so um, so you don't have to hear my stomach gurgling, and yeah, so every little bit helps. I really appreciate you listening. Thank you so much for listening. I'm Catherine Redden, and this is the C word.