'The C Word with Catharine Redden'

Everybody Needed Her. She Went Dancing Anyway. Ft Namita Pandey (GUEST CHAT)

• Catharine Redden • Episode 25

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What starts as a conversation about food quickly becomes a conversation about the invisible work women carry every day.

In this episode of The C-Word, I talk with Namita Pandey, founder of Aurum Celebrations, about the mental load hiding in ordinary things: groceries, lunchboxes, leftovers, family calendars, clean fridges, changing diets, and the question women are somehow always expected to answer: what’s for dinner?

We talk about migration, marriage, motherhood, grief, culture, midlife, ambition, and what happens when women spend a lifetime saying yes, often without even realising they’re saying it.

And then there’s dancing.

Even though people still need her, Namita is choosing joy, movement, business, beauty, and a life that belongs to her, too.

This is a conversation about invisible labour, but it’s also about the radical little question women deserve to ask themselves:

What do I want my life to look like?

About Namita Pandey 

Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/aurumcelebrationsau/

Website: 

https://celebratewithaurum.com/

🎙️👀 What worked? What dragged? What made you mutter “Jesus Christ, Catharine”? Tell me.

Content Note ~
This podcast gets into bodies, panic attacks, trauma, sexism, mental health, and the occasional emotional sinkhole. Please look after yourself only listen when you feel safe to engage with potentially triggering material. 
Also, I swear.

Support ~ 
These aren’t here as a formality. I’ve used some of these myself.

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Emergency 000

Outside Australia, local crisis services are available. ~

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Credits
Recorded on the lands of the Ramindjeri and Ngarrindjeri peoples.
Sovereignty never ceded.

Recorded & edited at Ridley Farm Studio by Luke Ridley
https://ridleyfarmstudio.com...

SPEAKER_00

Before we dive into today's episode of the C-Word, a quick recommendation. If you've already listened to my episode about Captain Jack, where I rant an appropriate amount. I was gonna say where I rant and rave. But it is an appropriate amount for the conversation. So if you've listened to that episode, think of this episode as its absolutely favorite aunt. The one, the aunt that everyone adores, who yells, Why are the women in the kitchen while the men are sitting around watching a cricket? And before anyone knows what's happening, the boys are doing the washing art. In that episode, the one with Captain Jack, I said the word no remains a beautiful, complete sentence, even when somebody has more questions. This conversation with Namita Pandy feels a bit like the mirror image of that. Because what happens when women spend a lifetime saying, yes, I'll remember what's for dinner, yes, I'll keep track of the groceries, yes, I'll manage the family calendar, yes, I'll manage everybody's different diets, yes, I'll do the emotional labour, yes, I'll do all the cleaning up, yes, I'll adjust. But they say that to themselves. They don't say it out loud. Today's episode started off as a conversation about food. Because it Namita and I really aren't talking about food. We're talking about the fact that somebody has to remember that there's no milk. Someone has to know what's in the freezer, someone has to remember it's kids' sports day, someone has to clean the fridge. And somehow that somebody is very often a woman. My guest is Namita Pandy, the founder of A Room Celebrations. What started as a Facebook comment about being tired of thinking about food turned into a really joyful conversation that wandered in the best possible way through invisible labour. That should have been labour. I don't know what labour is. Through invisible labour, migration, grief, marriage, motherhood, and all the things women somehow get expected to carry. I really think you're going to enjoy this one. Here's my conversation with Namita. Hello, hello, and welcome to the C-Word with Catherine Redden. Today I'm joined by Namita Pandy, the founder of A Room Celebrations, and we're talking about migration, invisible labour, food, identity, womanhood, and all the exhausting mental tabs women carry open in their brains at all times. Hello, Namita, welcome to the pod. Thank you so much, Catherine. Thank you for having me. Oh, that's my pleasure. I remember that I met you in a Facebook group and I think I asked what women were tired of. And you said that you were tired of thinking about food all the time. Not just the cooking of it, but the thinking about it. The shopping, the leftovers, the next meal, whether there's enough. And I remember thinking that is such a specific kind of female exhaustion. So I want to talk to you about that, but also migration, identity, and all of that other stuff. How are you going today? And where do we where do we find you?

SPEAKER_02

So I I live in Gold Coast. Oh, beautiful Gold Coast, yes. And uh and yes, and you will find me on Facebooks, on on various different women, Facebook, Facebook groups on uh specifically around Gold Coast, yes.

SPEAKER_00

Yes, and for our international listeners, for particularly those in the northern hemisphere, it's just about winter in Australia. I'm down south where it's cold and chilly, but Namita is on the Gold Coast, where I imagine it's a little more subtropical.

SPEAKER_02

Absolutely. I'm wearing a t-shirt right now, Catherine. What are you wearing?

SPEAKER_00

I'm wearing, I've got a Spencer, that's how old I am. A Spencer, a jumper, and I'm in my car that I had the heating on, and I'm sitting there's no sun, but I mean I'm not in the shades. And I think my car said it's 12 degrees.

SPEAKER_02

So poor you. No, I'm sitting in a t-shirt and tight shape, so you can imagine.

SPEAKER_00

Tell me, when did you first realize how much mental energy food takes up in your life?

SPEAKER_02

I probably can't pinpoint it to a day, but I'll tell you, I think probably it was it would have been uh mid-last year. I was just walking in one of the Westfield, uh, which is a shopping mall for your international listeners, a Westfield shopping. And I'm thinking that all the women, and I'm grocery shopping, of course, and there's so just so much one in my head. My husband was uh was just diagnosed with pre-diabetic situation. So I had this added responsibility of also now, you know, catering to different kinds of uh, you know, food that would be good for him. Then my son, he's athletic, plays a lot of sport, then protein. And I'm just thinking, like, oh my god, this is so hard. I see women with their trolleys and you know, stuff in the trolley, and I'm like, everyone must be going through the same that I'm going through.

SPEAKER_00

So there are three people in your household that you cook for and yourself, or are there more?

SPEAKER_02

We're just three. So my daughter lives in Kent. Uh if there's the three of us in the household that I cook for, yes.

SPEAKER_00

So I can't imagine my my brother and law have four children who all live at home, and three of them are teenagers. So I can't imagine what that's like.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, so it and and it's just okay. So who needs who likes the first thing? Then who needs to eat what? So my son is vegetarian, but he needs a lot of protein. My my husband is pre-diabetic, so he has specific, and then I'm trying to lose weight as we all are trying all the time. So I need high protein as well. I am vegan. And to to on top of that, things like it should be easy to eat, it should be easy to take for my something as lunchbox. And I am able to pre-prepare it, so I don't, I'm not cooking all the time, three times in a day, and we don't want to eat out because it's too expensive and not good for you. And I'm thinking, oh my god, this is just so much hard work. I've got three or four lifts in my hand just shopping for a week, and I see so many women around in shopping trolleys. I feel they're all in the same boat as me, and this is just so much work exhaustion. I wish someone would do it for me.

SPEAKER_00

So, because on top of all that, you've got your business, yes, and I imagine social commitments and all of that as well. And I think I feel I have to say this on every podcast. I know that some men do the shopping and the cooking. For instance, my brother is very good at the housework that he does, but I still think there's a massive gap. And I'm we're not, I'm not this podcast is really just about explaining what it's like for women. So what we're saying, what I'm saying is there's a I think there's a massive gap still between what men think about and even do, because it's the thinking as well, isn't it? It's not just the buying, it's the kind of mental load that we all look. I actually I'm a single girl now and the meter and I can tell you when I want to have toast for dinner, I have toast for dinner. And I know exactly, but I know that I'm that that's not usual for women my age. And you know, I really think if women didn't have to think about food so much, or even like even half the time, what else could we be doing?

SPEAKER_02

So much more. And and you said the right thing. It's not about cooking. I feel that cooking is the last 20-30% of it, the effort, uh, cooking and cleaning. It's about all this planning that goes on constantly. So, so if I'm if I'm uh cooking for today, so for example, in the morning, I cooked for breakfast a little bit because I'm I'm not like working full-time. I was an IT profession, I'm not working full-time, I'm doing the business. I'm usually home, working from home. The sort of, I will not say uh expressed expectation, but implied expectation is like, oh, because because I'm working from home, I would be cooking the three meals like hot meals. So I did breakfast, I did lunch already, and I'd done dinner already, because I had some commitment in the evening. Now I did not stop, so I my brain did not rest after after all that uh all this cooking. Because now I'm thinking, okay, what will I do tomorrow? How does my tomorrow day look like? Because I'm in Brisbane all day tomorrow. So now I have to think that okay, so do I do um breakfast and lunch like today evening for tomorrow? And then I'll be too tired. So do I come back home and cook tomorrow, or do I cook today for tomorrow uh dinner? So you see, it's just so much of forward planning and actual just putting in that one, one and a half, two hours of cooking just sounds easy, and you're so right. So for men, it's like okay, tell me what to cook. Now just tell me.

SPEAKER_00

Yes, and they don't, in my experience, they don't shop for the ingredients. Yes, they don't unpack the groceries. Yes. I used to tell me part is the hardest part. And just having to make the decision, you know. My I mean, I have an ex-husband now, but when I had a husband, he he cooked two or three times a week and uh he would shop for me. But I think that's a regular thing. I and I know that research backs this up that women, particularly married women, the bulk of it still falls to you. And what would happen if you didn't do it, Navita? What would happen if you if you went on strike?

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, I I sometimes think, you know, if someone asked me, okay, what do you want to eat? If I do not have the criteria of what's easy to eat, what's in the fridge, uh, you know, what's good for me, I would not know how to answer. So when you said that, what would I do with the time? It's just so hard for me to imagine my life without it. I'm sure there are a lot of things I think I will be able to spend so much more time in my business, accelerate a lot of things. My website or incelebrations.com.au helped me in spending for I'm thinking two weeks. Not just because of meal, of course, uh things, but that time if I get back, I think I'll be able to accelerate and get my website up and running in a week or so. So there's just so many things. I might go to the gym a little bit more and you know, maybe lose my lose the bit faster. I might be able to practice my dance a bit better. Yes.

SPEAKER_00

Your dance? Did you did you dance?

SPEAKER_02

Yes, dance. What sort of dancing? Indian classical. I do hard that's a good thing.

SPEAKER_00

Tell me about your Indian classical dancing.

SPEAKER_02

Oh my god, yeah. So I started a couple of years back. Now, at this age, like all classical dances, this dance is like super hard and it needs a lot of like core stability and it needs a lot of hip mobility and things like that. And as with other um middle-aged women in my class, I'm also struggling a little bit of um, you know, around the flexibility and the strength that is needed for the dance. So I mean, I'm still doing it, we're going a little slow, you're modifying as necessary, but yeah, it's fun, it's a new thing that I'm learning. It's way out of my comfort zone, but I'm loving it.

SPEAKER_00

Are there performances?

SPEAKER_02

Uh yes, I do. I don't know if you know Hota, home of the arts in Gold Coast. It's like a really big uh venue.

SPEAKER_00

I don't know it. That's fantastic.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, so we perform at Hota. And any of your listeners who are in Gold Coast area, just watch out for the tickets in uh September for a November show.

SPEAKER_00

I might put it in the show notes. So I'll put in the show notes. I'll get the information from you. So if I've got some there, I've got a few um Gold Coast listeners, so they they might want to go and check it out. That's fantastic. Tell me when you grew up. I'm interested in where you grew up and did the women around you do carry that same load with cooking as well?

SPEAKER_02

I would say so. The short answer is yes, but the long answer is that the family that I grew up in in India was an upper middle class family. So we are used to having housemates. Yes. So a lot of housemates. So my mom definitely was the brain behind absolutely every big and small decision that she was making. She was a stay-at-home mum.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02

All her life. And we were four brothers and sisters, so three sisters and one brother. So obviously a big family, but she also had lots of animals. We had a couple of uh, you know, servants living with us who would help us, and dad would mostly be working, like you know, just the provider and the earning responsibilities were his. He was absolutely not involved in the household decisions at all, but it worked. I would say it largely worked because the power situation was sort of 50-50 divided. Mom had like 100% authority over whatever else was happening, the kids at the home, and dad was like absolutely whatever, you know, the wherever the money would come from. But then she had a staff carry out her orders.

SPEAKER_00

How did you learn to cook then?

SPEAKER_02

I learned to cook after I got married.

SPEAKER_00

And you did you, if you don't mind me asking, did you get married in India?

SPEAKER_02

I got married in India. It was in arranged marriage. I was 20. So it was a very typical, um, it was a very typical setting of where, you know, the parents give their daughters hand in marriage and she goes to the husband's family and then tries to adjust with in her husband's, you know, whatever ways of living they have. The expectation fell on women to do majority of the adjusting.

SPEAKER_00

Yes, actually that that's something I hadn't thought of before, but I don't know why I never thought of that. So you have to do all the adjusting going, you know, and I want to be respectful of your husband's family, but I suppose if that's a cultural thing and women are always doing that, then it's just seen as normal.

SPEAKER_02

Absolutely. So that's seen as normal, that is expected, that's how we are sort of I I mean, I'm using the word groomed in in a not in a bad way, like or not in the way that it's used, but we are almost like groomed and taught to to say, so whenever we're growing up, uh sentences like, oh, you know what, you should be you shouldn't be so rigid in your thoughts because you're going to someone else's family, and you might have to, you know, change your opinions, uh, your your personality, the and you know, all those kind of things. So you have to learn to adjust because you don't know the kind of family you will be going. So this is sort of drilled generally. I'll say more so my parents were rather liberal. They also instilled in us that you know, you are a person also, you don't have to give 100% of yourself. But it's not just my parents, it's not just my in-laws. I mean, I'm not saying it's like the other system or the other way of living is bad, but it's just different from what you grow up, and that's so with every family. But eventually, yes, the responsibility rests majority of it, I would say 90% of it, on the women uh when they get married to sort of paint themselves in the colours of the new family that they're going, you know, whatever customs, rituals, way of living, whether they are early people or evening people or you know, what they like to eat, you have to learn to cook what they like to eat, and the list goes on.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, the the what they like to eat, our situations are very different. But I didn't realize until I got divorced that I was only cooking what my husband liked to eat.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, and once you have children, then they get added into who likes to eat what, and what you actually want never comes into the picture unless you expressly or consciously or intentionally bring it into the frame and say, okay, yes, I need to also think about what I like to eat. So I want to cook. And and again, the mental and the physical preparation of that lies on you. So it is up to you whether you cook what you want to eat. So you cook in addition to everything, everyone else, what you know, everything else that you're cooking, or that you say, okay, you know what? I will just cook that what I like and everyone has to eat it, which rarely happens.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, I don't know any I could I'd love to hear from listeners if if they're a woman and they cook what they want and their family eats it. Uh I don't know any families like that. There you go. Which is actually shocking, isn't it? If we think about it, that the man look, I don't think men are standing around saying this is what I want to eat, but I think it's so normal for women and living with someone or married to someone to cook what they want what the what the man wants. I younger women may be saying no, I hope they are, because as you and I talk about it, it actually seems quite ridiculous that um not your situation, but like that we're saying, well, we'll cook what else wants. And somehow if we don't wear salfish.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, exactly. And you know what? And again, as you said, that I'm not blaming, it's not my husband or someone else's husband to blame. It's just the whole system. So the the piece the way the pieces of this puzzle have been set is that everyone knows that who will sacrifice. Yeah. No one asks the question, okay, why is it, or whether it's right or wrong, or whether there's a middle way.

SPEAKER_00

And that really is the patriarchy. I mean, that's because I don't think men sat around and said, we're gonna do this to make sure that women look after us forever. But it but it is how the system works and it it is how men gain an advantage.

SPEAKER_02

Oh, absolutely. I actually, since the time that I've started my business, Catherine, I have been thinking, and you know, I've been thinking really deeply about it, that the business things come sort of towards the later part in the priority. So I do the the cooking, I do the cleaning, do the laundry, and whatever else, you know, needs to be done. And then when I get time, I come and sit on my laptop and start doing things. And I'm like, but that's not the case. My husband has his own business as well. That's not the case for him.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02

I'm not saying it's right or wrong, or it's how it should be, but that is how the expectation is set. I don't know how to change this, or if I change this, what would it look like?

SPEAKER_00

And I think that's the question for a lot of women. I think a lot of us for me it happened through divorce that it look at look and I actually my husband did a lot of the cleaning too. I th I think for a lot of women the change happens through divorce. And I think that's desperately sad, you know, that they couldn't have that that partnership in their marriage. Do you think that men notice the labour that women do? Do you think they appreciate it? And I I know that we can I'm really not trying to single out your husband, but but do you think when you two girlfriends, do you think men in general notice this?

SPEAKER_02

I don't think so. And and this includes my husband, and again, with no offense to him, he just does what he knows the best, right? He doesn't know it any other way. For that matter, even I don't know any other way. So, but I don't think they notice. I don't think that they notice the amount of planning that goes behind every decision that is made in the house. Not just in the kitchen, but outside the kitchen when it comes to laundry, when it comes to managing uh kids' schedules, as now that my daughter's moved out, but you know, not too far back in the past she was living with us and just managing everyone's schedules, managing the social life, just managing, you know, household as the seasons change, you know, if the if the dooners are out, you know, if they're clean and just there's just so many things that need flying. I think most men have been conditioned to imagine that these things happen automatically on their own and do not require the amount of mental load. Or I think they don't think that the mental load takes women away from their own careers, from the things that they want to do, their hopes, aspirations, opinions, hobbies, and those sort of things. I don't think it comes in their head. I'm trying to instill this in my son to make him see all the stuff that needs to be done. For example, Friday evening he has a tennis task. Okay. Friday evening the house is usually in a mess after the whole week of, you know, everyone's busy, everyone's busy. And then the kitchen is in a mess. And he I drop him to tennis, or my husband drops him to tennis, and then after that, my time it's too clean because I just can't I have the time and I just it's all messy. So I just clean everything up. What I realized until a couple of years back that coming back, no one actually realized that how dirty the kitchen was. The sink was full of dishes and the platform had stuff everywhere, and then there were like, you know, socks and shoes and things lying all over the house. And when they come back, they see everything's clean. And it took me close to two hours to do all that stuff. Coming back from tennis, um, my husband and my son, both of them would not realize that how much effort did it take for me to just clean everything up so it's set up for the weekend and sometimes even for the week. So I started sort of pointing it to them. Look, I just cleaned it. You remember how dirty it was? I just cleaned it. And in most cases, I'll say, Oh, yeah, just like a you know, just a mild kind of uh reaction. So, okay, this comes naturally to them for naturally or socially conditioned or whatever. So I need to actually point it to them. So for my son, I've started to point out look how much effort it took, look how much effort it took.

SPEAKER_00

Because if you were paying someone to do that, I don't I don't know what the good is, but I imagine it's fifty or sixty dollars an hour.

SPEAKER_02

Easy, easy, yeah.

SPEAKER_00

So if you were paying someone to do your Friday night cleanup, that's $120 probably every week. So that's that and that that unpaid, and that and that is not the I know that's not the only cleaning that you do, but that unpaid labour, like it interests me why we just think one that it's unpaid and two that it falls to women, and then there's no real it's not counted in the GDP, you know, it's not counted as work.

unknown

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00

But if it wasn't done, eventually social services would be called to your house.

SPEAKER_02

Yes, yes. Or or some members fall really sick because they'd be cockwitches and pests all around.

SPEAKER_00

Your neighbors would complain about the smell and and it I know that it would take a long time. And people listening to this might be rolling their eyes a bit, but it really does a Me that we're in this position where women are doing so much unpaid work. And that also what's worse than that is that it's work that's not valued.

SPEAKER_02

Yes, unacknowledged, unrespected, unpaid. And it's I think invisible is a correct word someone's come up with, and I use it all the time because it's actually it does like no one's absolutely no one sees it. Like it's happening in front of your eyes. You see the before and after pictures of you know of the house, the room, of you know, whatever. But can you imagine if you don't like I clean my fridge every month? I try to clean it every month because there's just so much spill and whatnot. Can you just imagine that just one work? So cleaning your fridge, cleaning the bins, cleaning the oven, the microwave, just once a month, that is that's like two, three hours worth of work. And no one actually imagines that okay, if I don't clean the fridge for six months, you know how dirty it'll be, it'll be moldy. You'll have to buy it in the fridge.

SPEAKER_00

And imagine how good you could be at dancing, at traditional Indian dancing nameta, if you didn't do all his cleanings.

SPEAKER_02

So true. So true. There's just so much more. I mean, to this morning I am uh uh asking Chant GPT that, you know, I'm getting these random aches and pains. So why is it? Chat GPT says it's nervous overload. And I was like, oh God, what are you talking about? How do I get rid of it? And it's telling me, do you breathe for five minutes and you'll eat sit quietly and eat? I said, come on, I don't have the time to do all this.

SPEAKER_00

It's I'm not sure how old you are, but also Chat GPT should be saying, for me that would be perimenopause and menopause.

SPEAKER_02

Oh, yeah, it did. I I'm 50, I do 15 in August, so yeah.

SPEAKER_00

You know, the whole there are women nodding to this out there where the thing they don't tell us about or they're only just starting to tell us is the frozen shoulder, you know, and the aches and pains that we get. That that's that's perimenopause in my medical doctor. We're not giving you medical advice, but if you're anywhere near perimenopause and you get aches and pains, you talk to your doctor about that. And it's not just about deep breathing and ice baths.

SPEAKER_02

Oh, yeah, yeah. And I'm on HRT actually. So, yes, I've gone through the whole process of what's happening with me. I had no idea days I'm not sleeping properly and and whatnot. But I was a bit overwhelmed with this stuff happening with my business last week. It was just too much. So suddenly I just woke up one day and it's like my legs feel like I have no energy in my legs. And I'm on HRT, I'm taking it regularly, the doctor says everything's fine. And then uh I've been talking with Chanchi PT about these things, and it's been saying you need to slow down, slow down, slow down. And how? How do I slow down? Tell me.

SPEAKER_00

I don't know. How do you think that will happen?

SPEAKER_02

I think at the moment I feel that everything is important. So, Catherine, I am at an aging stage where I feel the life is sort of um running out of my hands because I'm as I told you guys, I am 50, I'll be turning 50 in August, and I had a flourishing IT consulting um career that I sort of gave up uh last year just to pursue my passion, which is this business. This is uh end-to-end cultural wedding planning business, autumn celebrations. And I'm getting good traction. I'm I'm still pre-revenue, I'm but I'm getting really good traction. I've got amazing vendors I'm working with. And I'm sort of in a hurry, I would say, to establish it. So I'm also able to reap the benefits of this business before I turn too old or before my health actually starts to, you know, fail me.

SPEAKER_00

Yes.

SPEAKER_02

And that, but at the same time, my son is in grade 11 and he's a high achiever. So he's got lots of things going on in his school. My husband has a flourishing business, and as I said, said that the mindset of okay, you know, let me sacrifice a little bit so that you know she she can also flourish. I'm and again, I'm not bashing him because obviously he's my husband. We've we've been together for 30 years, but that's how it has been, and I don't expect a lot of changes from him at this age and stage. He's 55 as well. So for me, uh hence why I don't know how to slow down to answer your question. Yeah, I mean, it was a long explanation of why I can't do something.

SPEAKER_00

I think it's good to talk through because I'm sure this is the experience of lots of women. If we could just go back a few steps. Tell me, what did you imagine Australia would be like before you migrated?

SPEAKER_02

Oh, I think this question needs to be answered for a lot of people. And I'm I I hope that many will definitely coming from South Asia, from Indian subcontinent, will recognize my, will understand my answer. So, a bit of Australia and Western world generally comes to us from Bollywood movies, believe it or not.

SPEAKER_00

Okay.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah. I know this would be really interesting to many of your listeners, but Bollywood uh presents the Western world in a very skewed way. It presents it um, firstly, it presents obviously all the beautiful, you know, clean streets and you know natural beauty, beaches and etc. etc. But the life of NRIs, as they're called non-resident Indians, it's a very common term used in in uh Bollywood movies and in India. It's a it's a it's an official term of Indian government, which are non-resident Indians. It's for tax purposes, but it's commonly used as people who live overseas, and people like us who are citizens of another country are OCIs, which are overseas citizens of India, so NRIs and OCIs. So the way Bollywood presents them, either as you know, helicopter riding billionaires, which there are fair few of them, especially in US and UK, or as illegal immigrants who are struggling for two meals and are going through, you know, racist workplaces.

SPEAKER_00

Oh, okay. So there's those two extremes.

SPEAKER_02

Yes, yes. The reality is really different, as we know. It's very common, it's middle class, husband-wife working, raising children, you know, buying a house coming after two or three years. So the reality is really different from what the expectation was. And what also the Pollywood does not show is the amount of work that needs that is needed to sustain a life. And you will not believe the most important or the top of the mind thing that most women coming from uh South Asia will have no household help.

SPEAKER_00

And did you realize that when you immigrated that you wouldn't have household help?

SPEAKER_02

Uh I of course knew that. Uh so you know, everyone knows that, but the idea of something versus doing actually being there and being in it and being like doing something is so different. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00

So I think that's really important to talk about too, because I find that in my life, you know, when I think about doing something, I often just ignore bad things that might happen if it might if I think it's my overall benefit. And when you migrated, was it a joint decision that you made? Like what prompted you to come?

SPEAKER_02

So um, in early years of our marriage, and when my daughter was really little, really little, like when she my husband was in merchant navy. So I actually never lived in India, like you know, after marriage. I was traveling with him on on ships throughout throughout the world. Wow. Yes, so that was really exciting. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00

So you were in he was in the merchant navy and you and your daughter were sailing around with him.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah. So before she was born, I was sailing um all by myself, like him and me. And then when my daughter was born, for about an year I was with my parents in India because they do not allow uh, you know, kids less than one year to sail, like for the medical purposes and all that. But after that, I sailed with him for a little bit. And then we visited Australia many, many times before we actually migrated. It was for different courses that he was doing, for little work that he was doing. So I migrated in 2006-07, you like that was the year. I think my husband came in late 2006 and I came early 2007. Uh, so when we came in that time, I sort of knew how Australia feels like. So it wasn't like, you know, I oh, I don't know absolutely anything. But I about a week in, I realized that just the mindset of coming to visit a place is so different from the mindset of, oh, I'm going to live here forever, and my daughter will go to school here and I'll see a doctor here, um, and we'll have to buy a house here. So I realized that that is just so different coming as a tourist or coming as just something who is accompanying you know, a husband and just, you know, just for having fun, then going back versus I'm actually going to live here, this is going to be my home.

SPEAKER_00

So I imagine, did you come because you would thought that Australia might offer a better life for your children? And was was that why?

SPEAKER_02

Katherine, believe it or not, you know what? I didn't put much thought into it. And when I say I, because remember the decision making was basically with my husband.

SPEAKER_01

Yes.

SPEAKER_02

I was 627 when we applied for PR.

SPEAKER_01

Okay.

SPEAKER_02

So I was still very young. I was mother of a, you know, little girl. But what should I say? I mean, I feel so bad because it's just so different version of me that I almost don't want to recognize that version. But the truth is, and I I might just say it out loud, I might feel better about it, that I did not put too much thought into how these decisions will affect my life. Because in my mind, whatever decisions he was taking were the right decisions. And I didn't think that I had a not that I didn't have a say in it, but I was not critically thinking too much about those decisions at that time.

SPEAKER_00

When I talked to my mom on the podcast, it became clear to me too that a lot of decisions were just made. And it wasn't like she didn't want to do it. It's just that and it wasn't even that she didn't think she had a choice. It's just she just did them.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, I think yes, exactly right. So I will not blame not that he didn't consult with me, not that like we didn't consult together, not that we didn't talk about it, but I didn't think that I needed to push put too much of my head into it or that there was a contrary, you know how you you say, okay, if not this, then what? So I sort of did not did not think about options, thought this would be the best outcome, and and that was it. And we applied for PR and we caught her PR in a couple of years and we came here.

SPEAKER_00

Do you think if your daughter was to have a partner and they were to think about immigrating somewhere, do you think she would have more of a say than you did?

SPEAKER_02

I think she will spearhead the decision. Okay. Yeah, yeah. Not because of the kind of person that she is. She's a very strong-headed, you know, aspirational, ambitious uh girl. But she takes the ownership of the decisions that she does, she takes, not only with her future partner, whosoever that person is, but with us as well. Like, for example, say she was living in Melbourne and she's working for NAB in Melbourne, and then she decided to come to Cairns, and we were just, you know, trying to talk her out of it because you know how different Melbourne and Kent's the culture and the work life and all that is. But she says, no, no, no, I need to do that, mom. And she was ready with the whole script of why she should go there in spite of all the all the problems that we are pointing it toward, which she agrees that they are, but and and the strategies she has of how to uh sort of mitigate them and how she will adjust and how for how long she will do and what her next steps would be. And I was like so impressed. I said, She's only 26. Look at her.

SPEAKER_00

Yes. So in one generation, there's been a bit of change. And you know, you're you're responsible for that, Namita.

SPEAKER_02

Oh yeah. I I hope, and that's exactly what I'm trying to do with my son as well. As I'm trying to bring my daughter from one end to the middle, I'm trying to bring my son from the other end to the middle as well. So I hope that you know their partners feel differently to what I feel and what my husband feels.

SPEAKER_00

When you moved to Australia, was there anything that you can remember that shocked you or that still shocks you about Australian culture?

SPEAKER_02

Um, yeah, there were some, definitely, Catherine. But I did not come with a lot of expectations. Okay. I was so I did not have ideas, any preconceived notions in my head. Uh, it was almost like a blank canvas in my head. That is how little how little thought I put in before making this life-changing decision.

SPEAKER_00

Maybe that was the best way, you know. I I don't know, maybe maybe that's the best way. But I've talked to other women who the culture shock was incredibly difficult for them.

SPEAKER_02

But I'll tell you a few things that I that were really weird for me. And if I explained to you how the first first uh week was. So in 2006, when we came, my daughter was six. So that was not for like not for fun, but for living. Yes. So um I I think I landed on a it was a Saturday. It was a Saturday, yeah. And Sunday we were jet lags, okay. How the Monday would look like because he was working for IBM. Fortunately, we did not face the issues of finding work, so he already had work when we came in because he got transferred from IBM Bangalore to IBM Um Melbourne, which was good. So he said, I'm I'll go to the office, but have to go to the school to get somebody. So my daughter um enrolled. I said, okay, great. And then, you know, waking up in the morning, you know, I made I dressed her up and we went into sport Melbourne primary school. And I think I was supposed to be there around 8, 8:15, but I was there at 7:30 because in my mind, admissions in India are like such a massive, massive exercise. I was so nervous. I don't know what questions they will ask. I don't know if they might put my daughter through, you know, some sort of tests, you know, recognize colours, alphabets, or whatever else. So I explained everything to her. I said, You have to behave nicely, otherwise they'll say no and all that. And I laugh at myself thinking about all that now. But at that time I was like super nervous. I reach there and I see this man dressed in like you know, shirt and pants, like formal like collar of shirt, and he's just putting the bins inside and he's just cleaning up. And I reach there and he's sort of surprised to see me that early. And he says, Okay, why don't you go and sit inside? I'll be there in a moment. And I'm thinking, like, why is he saying he'll be there in a moment? I'm waiting for the principal, not the cleaner. So anyway, I come and sit inside, and then I he comes in and he's taking his, I think he's wearing like sort of like an apron or like you know, gloves and all that for cleaning. He takes that off and he says, Oh, why don't you go and sit inside? I'll be there in a moment. He comes with with a cup of tea for me, uh, like green, like a little green tea. And he, and we don't sit like, you know, in India, it's like super formal. There'll be like a really big office table, and principal is uh is sitting behind, and there is a uh there's a secretary and a couple of you know uh you know staff around the principal, and they're sort of translating what the principal wants to say, and you you're not talking to the principal directly, even though you're sitting in front of her or him. So he he brought his chair on the other side, and we're both like like you know, having a tea and talking, and then he says, Oh, the this uh the obvious ladies enroll her. And I am asked, and I just I said, So she's enrolled, and he says, Yeah, you're in the zone. I have to give you the admission.

SPEAKER_00

You're in Victoria, that's a big thing, you're in the school zone, yeah, exactly.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, yeah. And he and he says, Yeah, yeah, of course, you're in the zone. We're more than welcome to have her. Like we're really, really glad that she's you've decided it's a positive culture shock, I'll say.

SPEAKER_00

So the man's out was the principal.

SPEAKER_02

Yes, yes. I came home and I threw out, and you know, and then did something interesting happened. So my daughter, she was the only charger six, and she was a little uh spoiled. So she wanted to buy everything. So uh, you know, I thought Port Melbourne, I come to CBD and we're walking and I'm just looking around. She suddenly wants a toy or I don't know, whatever else, and she is like, you know, yelling and crying and just doing what kids do. I got so irritated. I said, you know what, I want to spank you, but I can't because Ashok said, don't do that in public here. I said, okay. So I took her and I said, I said, Are you irritating much? Well, I was very young. I was what, like 28 or something, right? With the six-year-old. I put her in my inner cab and I tell the cab, I said, let's go home. And I said, uh and she's crying on top of oil, like crying, and I don't know how to handle her. I said, I really want to restrain you. I really want to thank you, right? And he says, Don't do that, you can't do that in public. I said, Yeah, I know I can't do that in public or private. But I took her home and it was again, it was a culture shock for me to not because in India, you know, they will just put like, you know, they'll just give you two little flaps. But I learned how not to do that, and yeah, that was also really I had to restrain myself.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, I imagine just trying to bring up your child differently would be huge.

SPEAKER_02

Yes, it was, especially the teenagers. Then again, for teenagers were were very challenging for us, especially her expectation versus our cultural expectations were like just so different.

SPEAKER_00

So when you you migrated, you're raising children, and uh do you finish a PhD as well or within a relatively short period?

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, so I I think I had um submitted my PhD before coming here. And in 2007 I was awarded, I just went back, you know, just for that last bit where you have to defend your PhD for in front of a panel and all that. So I just went there for a couple of uh I was it for like three weeks, and I did that, and I came here. So I did all my work while I was there. It was just that last little bit. In 2007, I was awarded my PhD.

SPEAKER_00

That's still an amazing achievement. And what was it awarded in the meter?

SPEAKER_02

So I did in supply chain economics. Um it was impact of containerization on the uh developing world, specifically to India.

SPEAKER_00

Goodness me. Very accomplished you are. Oh, thank you. Thank you. Tell me what's the change from your career that you had in IT to now running a room celebrations.

SPEAKER_02

So uh my career trajectory, Katherine, has been uh it hasn't been uh a typical uh career like you know, like most people would have. So I obviously I had my daughter really young and I did most of my education, which was masters in commerce and my PhD after she was born. So along with her, I did that. And I was uh so for whatever little time that I was in India, I was teaching in management institutes in India. So when I came in here, um, because my husband knew a few people, and then he he came across an opportunity through something, something, and then I ended up being the right person at the right time. RMIT was looking for someone who has understanding of supply chain economics and a little bit of IT SAP systems, and I happened to be there, like I happened to be introduced to them, and they were looking for someone desperately. So I helped them write the curriculum for that particular course, and then I started helping the lecturer who was there and Conrad, both of them, to with the tutorials and you know, and you know, just just fine-tuning the whole curriculum because it was a new course being launched. And then I started uh teaching there, teaching there for many, many years. I would I had taught with them for about 12 years. So I the last batch that I taught was in 2022 when when I'd moved to care, I moved, I'd moved to Gold Coast, and they said that you have to be in the office at least a couple of days in a week. And I said, sorry, but I've moved and COVID work from home, things were were being withdrawn. So anyway, so I did that, and then I started teaching corporate batches for RMIT, like in terms of like they were they were people from IBM and and you know, things like that. And uh, that's how I got into corporate. So I was actually into academics. So I'd never thought I would work in corporate IT and and things like that. And then uh then I went full time with the corporate sort of training in SAP systems, change management, and uh, you know, uh IT adoption and you know, working in projects, like really big projects, multi-million dollar projects, billion-dollar projects, and all that I did with with uh SAP. But last year something just clicked because it was the exhaustion of corporate rut, to tell you uh frankly, Catherine.

SPEAKER_00

Yes. What what do you mean?

SPEAKER_02

A part of it was how chaotic that world was, how I felt like out of control in spite of working so hard, traveling all over Australia, delivering trainings and all that. I realized that some projects were were failing because they were uh they were not aligned to start with. So it's almost like seeing your hard work, like you're working your butt out, you're traveling day and night, training, people are happy with what you trained, but then you realize that the selection of the software was not correct to start with. They're like the software was not matching the processes, or the way the project was generally um managed was not in the most efficient or the best way. Lack of an accountability, uh, you know, there's very little job satisfaction, I would say.

SPEAKER_00

But sound, yeah, I was gonna say that. So it sounds like you were a bit disat a lot dissatisfied with corporate life.

SPEAKER_02

Yes, yes.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, I was in corporate for a little while and it can be a churn.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, it can be, yes. So, because as doing back-to-back, back-to-back projects, it was just getting too much. I wish I'd given myself a little time. I wouldn't be so exhausted, to tell you very frankly. But it was just so so last year I thought, you know what, like why am I doing this? The kids are grown up, my daughter's on her own, my son will be out very soon. And again, as I said, like I feel like it's 50. I I have like 10, 12 years of healthy life, healthy, active, you know, um the driven, driven, uh, emotionally driven life left. So if not now, then when? And I absolutely love creating events. I create events for a lot of family, friends. I create events for myself, like my own kids' birthdays and little things that I do. And they're always special. So I've got a big uh set of uh friends in Gold Coast, and they all know that when when I William and Namita creates an event, it's going to be special, it's going to be fun. And I have like project management experience. So I thought, let me put the two together.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02

And let me do this. And you know, Indian weddings. It's just it's just fascinating.

SPEAKER_00

Are people coming from India to get married in Australia?

SPEAKER_02

Oh, yes, yes. So that's exactly right, Catherine. So my idea is, and some of your listeners will be absolutely cast at hearing what I'm about to say, is that there's a growing segment of Indian people who go overseas to get married, and they spend a lot of money. And when I say a lot of money, I say like in one wedding, they would end up spending like $300,000 or even more than that.

SPEAKER_00

Wow. In the Gold Coast, maybe.

SPEAKER_02

Yes. So I said, you know, and you know, most of them go to Thailand, they go to uh Dubai, they go to Europe. And I said, why don't they come here? So this is my idea. I and I want the whole of whole of Gold Coast to come rally behind me and we can make this happen. We can invite those people to come get married in Gold Coast, come get married in Brisbane.

SPEAKER_00

Come get married. Where's that? There's a in Port Douglas is an amazing little chapel.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, I'm sure like they're there. I mean, come on, whichever way you look at in the area, especially that I live in, like Gold Coast and Brisbane, whichever side you look at, they're amazing destinations, they're amazing venues, um, you know, the decor, the natural beauty. We've got the Star Brisbane. I visited Star Brisbane the other day. It is just such a beautiful venue for weddings, a very urban venue. But then you go to Sheraton on the beach side, amazing resort, a way where the guests can live and have the wedding at the same spot. So almost like a big family holiday, along with a wedding in it. And also, come on. I mean, when you and your family are here, like 100 or 150 of you, why don't you go for a curated wine tour? Like they've got amazing wine in this country.

SPEAKER_00

Exactly.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, like there's just so much to do, so much to offer. It's just about going and telling those people that we have so much to offer. Why don't you, you know, just explore this?

SPEAKER_00

Do you think, just to change tact a little bit, do you think culture feels more important to you now than when you first arrived in Australia?

SPEAKER_02

Yes, I would I would think it does. But Catherine, the definition of culture is also changed in my head. Okay, let's talk about that. Culture. So when I came in, let's say my my thought process at that time was culture was a lot more visible in that for that Namita who was here 20 years back. It when I say a lot more visual, for me, culture was okay, praying two times in a day. For me, culture was uh wearing the clothes that we want. For me, culture was um, you know, just eating the food or you know, those symbols that we have of the culture. Now, for me, culture is more how you feel, you treat people around you, how you behave, and how you conduct yourself. That's that's also a big part of the culture in my head today.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, I'm I'm always interested in how people define culture because I think it's easy to say, oh, Australian culture or Indian culture, but like what does that mean? You know?

SPEAKER_02

Yeah. So for me, people form a bigger part of culture now. And symbols were a bigger part of culture in my head in early 2000s when I came here.

SPEAKER_00

No, I've got a very I've got a very important question. When India comes and play cricket in Australia, who do you barrett for?

SPEAKER_02

Oh my god, that is that is a very hard. You know what my answer to that is when it's between India and Australia, I support India. But when it's Australian, anyone else, I support Australia.

SPEAKER_00

And what about your son? Does he barr? Because he was he born in Australia?

SPEAKER_02

He was born in Australia.

SPEAKER_00

So who does he barr for?

SPEAKER_02

He will usually wear an Australian t-shirt. I wouldn't you know what? You know what, Katherine? I have a t-shirt, uh a sports t-shirt, a cricket t-shirt, which is half a cricket t-shirt, which is half uh green and gold, green and half blue.

SPEAKER_00

That is absolutely perfect. I don't think it matters at all. And I actually love the all blacks. I was born in Australia and I'm a I'm not particularly patriotic, but I'm glad to live in Australia. And I barried for the Australian cricket team, but I'm I married for the all blacks.

SPEAKER_02

And you know what it says?

SPEAKER_00

Chicken ticker pie. The t-shirt says chicken ticker pie. That's great. Um I love and would you wear that to the cricket?

SPEAKER_02

I wore to the so we had um Indian and uh India and Australia cricket match, like the men's G20, was it late last year in Gold Coast? And I was wearing that t-shirt when I went there, and then every everyone's looking at it that's perfect. I said, Yeah, and I was celebrating every six and I was celebrating every hour.

SPEAKER_00

Get double your money's worth. Yes, exactly.

unknown

Exactly.

SPEAKER_00

We're gonna I'm gonna change the tone a bit now to Namita. So you mentioned that you lost your mum in 2020. And do you think that migration changed grief for you at all?

SPEAKER_02

It it did. It did a lot, Catherine. I think that was the only time yeah, I regretted coming to Australia.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, must have been hard.

SPEAKER_02

Very hard because Dojin shouldn't pass away due to COVID, but it was COVID times. Um the travel was so hard, and it was a very, very heartbreaking, not just because I lost her, but I'll tell you how the this the chronological series of events how it went. So my mom fell really sick in 2019. I flew uh because my dad, as I and as I was saying, like my dad was never into too many, like, you know, household decisions and all that. He was feeling a little lost when my mom was sick and he was taking her around everywhere, and we was not able to understand what's happening. I said, Okay, look, dad, I'll be there. So I was there for about three months. By the end of the three months, we diagnosed that she had um ovarian cancer. Oh, that unfortunately was uh left undiagnosed until it reached the lungs. And they were, and when she started when she had problem breathing, difficulty breathing, that's when we found out. So the doctors were a bit surprised, saying that it did not affect any of the stomach, like the organs inside the tummy, it just passed through the cavity and straight to the lungs, and that's when we found out that that was too late. So, yeah, it was really hard. So, anyway, it so I remember the last day she was going for, so when I was about to fly, she was going for her first chemotherapy. But I thought, okay, now we know what the problem is, and it's just going to be chemotherapies after chemotherapies and all that. And then that year, in about August, she um no, I think it was July, she had her first operation where they tried taking out the ovaries and all that, and she was then alright for some time, and then it it um came back the next year around February. That was the same time that COVID hit and the world just stopped randomly, and and we all know what happened. Seems like yesterday, but it was like over six years back, and then I thought, okay, now we know what's happening, and then you know the doctor would know what to do. Chemotherapies after chemotherapies, you we were not getting the results that we wanted. And I was in a situation where I could not visit her, I was just you know calling her, talking to her. Most of the time she was so sick, she would not even come on the phone, she's just on the bed, and dad will just say, Dad and my sister. My sister was uh with with them all the time, and she was like, Oh, mom's just too sick, she doesn't want to open her eyes and talk. And sometimes I will talk to her and we'll just cry. Just cry. Gosh. Uh, because it was just so hard, I could not be there. It's just really, really hard. So, um, anyway, then um then it was just going from back to worse.

unknown

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02

So I and I was not able to find the flights, like it's just so hard to travel. Then I found that there was one uh God, like there's one travel agency who had organized for a Sri Lankan Airlines chartered plane for all the parents. So remember, there are there are always a lot of parents living in in uh Australia from you know from India. So it was just for all the parents whose visas have expired and you know they were still not able to fly back and all that for those people to go back. So I spoke to the lady and I said, okay, could you book a couple of tickets, like my tickets as well? And she says, Yeah, okay, but then you have to go through all these, you know, um approval procedures. So I went through the entire approval procedures, and then finally I got my uh ticket booked for uh it was like it was 21st of September.

SPEAKER_01

Right.

SPEAKER_02

And I kept asking my sister that, oh, is she all right? And at that time, this one thing was sure that I will be seeing her for the last time when I go.

SPEAKER_01

Yes. Yes.

SPEAKER_02

Survive that. That you know how bad her situation was. She was she was constantly going from one emergency to another, and emergencies were also saying that we can't do much about it. We've given her like the pain relief things, and you can take her away because like there's nothing we can do. I was asking my sister, and am I will I be too late? She's like, no, no, no, no, no, no. She'll be alright for a week or so and all that. Okay. I don't know how to say this, but um, so I was supposed to fly on 21st to reach on 22nd, and I lost her on 20th.

SPEAKER_00

Oh, I'm so sorry to hear that, Namita.

SPEAKER_02

Just and the flight back to to Delhi and then from there to Deladron where my parents live, it was the longest bit of anybody's life. Yeah. Like it was just so long.

SPEAKER_01

Oh gosh.

SPEAKER_02

And uh and here I am packing and then I see my sister call call on the phone, and I'm like, she would normally not call, she would normally call on WhatsApp because obviously that's cheap, but she called on like normal number, which is very expensive. And I said, Okay, why is she calling on the phone? Why is she not calling on WhatsApp? And I said, This has to be a panic call because she's in the link, like what am I using? This and then she called, and she's and then she's yelling on the phone saying they're doing CPR to mommy because her heart was and I'm just telling the doctor, one thing, Doctor, can you just hold her for two days? I'll be there. Gosh. And and then the doctor says, We are trying our best, we are trying our best. But I think in the same phone call, she says, No mom, mommy is no much. It was just so hard for me to then just zip. And then next day morning was my flight. It was arriving about it was a really yeah, I think afternoon was the flight, and I was arriving the day after.

SPEAKER_00

So you got to go to the funeral? Yes, yes.

SPEAKER_02

I got whatever was remaining of her.

unknown

Yes.

SPEAKER_00

I'm really sorry that you had to go through all of that and your family.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, yeah. So that is the only time because I thought if in any corner of India I was, in any corner, I would have been able to see her or be with her in the last few days. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah. Gosh. I don't know if I can ask you anything else now.

SPEAKER_02

No, that's that's okay. I mean, she was she was suffering a lot. So in hindsight, when I talked also, he says that uh oh, she was just suffering so much, it was just so hard to see her suffer. And she was a very active lady, as I told you. Like she was like she was managing four children, she was managing like a big farm, like house we had, so she would do everything. He was very active. So just to see her on the bed was very hard for us for that one one and a half years.

SPEAKER_00

Is your dad still with us?

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00

And how is he going?

SPEAKER_02

He it was very hard for him initially because he was seeing the world through mommy's eyes. Yeah. Uh, he was never socially active and all that. But then eventually I realized that he he cooked, he cooked pretty well. He's found his own tribe.

SPEAKER_00

Good.

SPEAKER_02

And uh so there's an ashram that he likes to go to. So he goes to that ashram wherever he feels lonely, he is now looking after the the household mates, the maintenance of the house, how whatever mom would do, he's able to do that. And and he he talks to us like how mom would, we will talk travels, like all that, you know. When I would call call home, if dad would anytime pick up the phone, the only question asked, Daddy, how are you? Where's mommy? That's our conversation with the dad. But now I realize that you know, he talks at length, he talks about other family members, he talks about his frustrations and you know what he's coping well with, what he's not, where he's struggling, his financial decisions. Obviously, he's a retiree's investment. So, um, so I realized, yeah, I mean, I think and and that also me circling around to the point that he spoke first, that uh I think men can do all these things if they are given an opportunity.

SPEAKER_00

That's really interesting because yeah, that's right. And maybe they want to.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, yeah. Yeah. It's just the expectations. If the expectation is set that yes, dad will be the one who will be updating me with what's happening in his life. He's totally capable to do that. It was just that the responsibility didn't lie onto him ever in his life because mom would be the one who'd be managing everything. Now he's managing absolutely everything. I will obviously we miss a mom, we he misses the company.

SPEAKER_00

But yeah, generally. And tell me, what would you tell the younger you before she moved to Australia? What would you tell the younger Namita before she moved to Australia?

SPEAKER_02

What would I tell her? I would probably tell her to do a little bit more homework, to put a little bit more thought about not just about how the family would cope. So not just about little things that, oh, do we get, you know, some Indian ingredient in Australia? Yes, that's important, but also how would I like my life to be? So I would tell that how would you like your life to be? Think about it and bring that into the conversation that you are having right now. Have a little, I will say that she always had the say, but have a little bit more thought about uh about the timelines, about the life that you've planned, about how much will you have to give in to your environment versus what would you like to keep of yourself from the environment? So just have a little, so just bring yourself into the picture as well, not just the family, not just what's good for the family, the kids, the husband, also you, your career, your aspirations, hopes, ambitions. Will they be fulfilled there? Will it be like uh something that will propel you or stop you? And also do not give too much emphasis on housework and keeping the house pick and span and always cooking hot meals three times a day. Don't think that as your failure because you are able to do that in India with the help of mates, with the help of house help, and because it's you who carry the expectations and you you who get disappointed.

SPEAKER_00

I think that's something we can all take from at any time in our life. Is I was really thinking then, it's like, what do I want my life to look like? And you said something amazing. You said it's your expectations, and you'll be disappointed, you're the one who'll be disappointed.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah. I think it's mostly the case. Uh I will not say mostly, but for a big chunk, it is the expectations that we put upon ourselves because that's how that's we see our role as. And I take an example of my dad and my mom. My mom just put herself, like as women of that age of uh, you know, that era would do, she has she had put herself 200% into you know, dad and family and house. Every little thing that is happening in the house, she would hold herself responsible to. Even the teenage kids going through their you know usual tantrums, she will take that as her failure. Part of what illnesses that she got, she had she was diabetic for a very long time, she had blood pressure. I would attribute that to a lot of stress that she was taking. And unnecessary, why I would say today I can say that because I'm 50, because she thought she was responsible for for everything. She didn't think she had the option to say that we have a role in if things are not going uh wrong, or we all have a say, uh, we all have a role in whatever decisions we are making, and we all will be accountable as a family together and not just her.

SPEAKER_01

Wow.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah. Yeah, and see today, daddy's doing all right. He he's handling the social pressures, he's handling the relatives, he's handling the maids. The house is dirty, it is dirty. If a corner of the house has, you know, uh dust lined for six months. It is. There's no one to blame, and no one needs to be blamed. But she will take it upon herself that oh, why did it this happen?

SPEAKER_00

I'm glad your father's doing well. I'm sure that he he had a big shock to start with, but I'm glad to hear he's doing well. As we wind up a little bit, I've got a question for you. One last question. Tell me what's bringing you joy right now.

SPEAKER_02

Ah glad you asked this question. Because I have put a lot of thought over many years about things that bring me joy. Dance is the first thing that's bringing me joy so much, and it's it's just when I'm learning dance, when I'm doing dance, and it's not the classical dance that I'm doing, but I'm I'm also ever zumbar dance. I I go to the gym basically for Zumba, and also a little bit of Bollywood. Or I feel I forget myself. I it's almost like meditation for me. Yes, yes, just in the moment and not thinking about anything about past, right, songs, expectation, disappointments, nothing. It's just me and dance, and that brings me so much joy.

SPEAKER_00

Oh, I can imagine you dancing. Tell me about the costumes that you wear for the traditional dance.

SPEAKER_02

Oh, yes, it's a traditional Bharat Natam costume. So it is uh it's made out of a few little bits and pieces. So one is definitely a skirt, like a long skirt.

SPEAKER_01

Right.

SPEAKER_02

And we wear tights underneath because when we twirl around, we don't want people to see everything underneath. There's a blouse, and uh, then there is almost like uh what we call it um like a dupatta or uh like something on top of the blouse just to cover it, and then there are a few bits and pieces of decorative things that we wear around our waist.

SPEAKER_00

You'll have to send me a picture.

SPEAKER_02

I will, I definitely will, and I've got a picture from last year. I would love to see a picture. And it's lots of jewelry, like lots of jewelry, hair, like really big hair, and jewelry in hair, jewelry on the on the face, and we also do uh red colored, it's called alta hina on the hands, like big circles, so the hands look really pretty. Thank you all that.

SPEAKER_00

I would love to see a picture, thank you so much.

SPEAKER_02

Um the other thing, the second thing that's bringing me joy is definitely in my business because it's getting it's gaining so much of traction and I'm making such amazing connections. I'm seeing a side of me that I've not seen before. So it's just so good.

SPEAKER_00

So tell us where tell us where, if someone's planning an event in the Gold Coast in India, because I do have Indian listeners and they would like to get married in Australia. Tell tell the listeners where they can find you.

SPEAKER_02

So, yeah, so they can find me on Instagram, Aram Celebrationsau, and they can find me on Facebook, same AurumCelebrations AU, or my personal is uh Namita Espande, or they can find me on my website, which is AurimCelebrationsau.com. Uh, or they can email me. It's Namita at AUM Celebrationsau.com.

SPEAKER_00

I'll get all of those details from you, Namita, and we'll put them in the show notes. So when people are listening, they can easily click through. I just want to say, you know, we started talking about food and how much of women's labor hides in ordinary things, you know, in lunch boxes and leftovers. But we've sort of finished on a really amazing, I think a high note and talking about one of the great things about midlife. I think this is an absolute tribute to you, Namita, is that even in the busyness of your life, you're thinking about what you want it to look like. And I think I think that's an absolutely beautiful thing, you know, the dancing, but also how you want to live your life. And I think that's amazing, something we can all look up to.

SPEAKER_02

Oh, thank you so much. Yeah. So this is this realization has come after a lot of self-awareness and deliberation, Kathleen. Encourage all women to just pause, close your eyes, and think about who you are and what you want to do, and not just career-wise, how you want your day to look like, how you want your week to look like. So just think about the micro things as well, and not just like the big things. Oh, I want that promotion or I want you know that much money.

SPEAKER_00

I love that. Amida, thank you so much. Oh, I think we're starting to break up. Amida, thank you so much for talking to us. I've really enjoyed our conversation and I really wish you well with the dancing and your business and the next 50 years of your life.

SPEAKER_02

Thank you so much for having me, Kathy. It was just so wonderful talking heart to heart with you. That's my pleasure.

SPEAKER_01

Have a great day. Bye.

SPEAKER_02

You too. Thank you.

SPEAKER_00

Bye.