Accessibility Isn’t a Favour: A Conversation with Ellie Rowlands (GUEST CHAT)

Accessibility Isn’t a Favour: Ellie Rowlands on Ableism in Everyday Life

When we talk about disability, we often focus on the big moments: discrimination cases, inspirational stories, fundraising campaigns, or medical diagnoses.

But what if inequality lives somewhere much quieter?

In this episode of The C-Word, Catharine sits down with disability advocate, public speaker, and creative business owner Ellie Rowlands to talk about the everyday realities of navigating a world that isn’t always designed with disabled people in mind.

Born with spina bifida and living in regional New South Wales, Ellie shares what ableism actually looks like in practice: inaccessible buildings, limited accessible bathrooms, assumptions from strangers, planning every outing around access, and the constant exhaustion of having to advocate for yourself.

Together, Catharine and Ellie explore ~ 

• What ableism is and why it often goes unnoticed
 • Why accessibility isn’t a favour, it’s participation
 • The hidden labour of planning daily life with a disability
 • Living, working, and running a business while managing disability and chronic illness
 • Regional Australia’s accessibility challenges
 • The importance of self-advocacy
 • Community, belonging, and finding joy

Ellie also shares her journey from spending years bedridden with a serious pressure injury to building a successful design business, becoming a disability advocate, and being recognised as Mudgee’s Young Citizen of the Year.

This is a conversation about dignity, access, community, and a simple but powerful truth:

Nobody is “in the way” simply because they exist.

CONNECT WITH ELLIE

Instagram: @byellecreative

Website: https://byellecreative.com.au

Ellie Rowlands is the founder of By Elle Creative, a graphic design studio specialising in wedding stationery, branding, and design for creative businesses.

Based in Mudgee, New South Wales, Ellie works with clients across Australia and beyond, offering her services online to couples, entrepreneurs, and businesses wherever they are located.

Alongside her creative work, Ellie is a disability advocate, lived-experience speaker, and the recipient of Mudgee’s Young Citizen of the Year Award.

Women’s Circle: Conversations About First Periods

On Saturday 25 July, I’ll be hosting a small women’s circle at Goolwa Library as part of Firstival.

This isn’t a lecture or a panel. It’s a conversation about first periods, the stories we carry, what we were told, what we weren’t told, and the moments we still remember decades later.

Numbers are capped at 12 to keep the group intimate, and there’ll be tea, coffee, and a few nibbles while we chat.

The event is free, but bookings are essential.

Book your place here:
 https://www.eventbrite.com.au/e/womens-circle-conversations-about-first-periods-tickets-1989071039022?aff=oddtdtcreator

Content Note ~
This podcast gets into bodies, panic attacks, trauma, sexism, mental health, and the occasional emotional sinkhole. Please look after yourself only listen when you feel safe to engage with potentially triggering material. 
Also, I swear.

Support ~ 
These aren’t here as a formality. I’ve used some of these myself.

Lifeline 13 11 14 (24/7)
Kids Helpline 1800 55 1800 (ages 5–25)
1800RESPECT 1800 737 732
Emergency 000

Outside Australia, local crisis services are available. ~

The Socials (I'd love a follow) 
Instagram
https://www.instagram.com/catharine.redden/

LinkedIn
https://www.linkedin.com/in/catharine-redden/

Support The Pod
Substack (where I write stuff)
https://catharineredden.substack.com

Buy Me a Coffee (where you can financially support the pod, and me!)
https://buymeacoffee.com/CatharineRedden

Credits
Recorded on the lands of the Ramindjeri and Ngarrindjeri peoples.
Sovereignty never ceded.

Recorded & edited at Ridley Farm Studio by Luke Ridley
https://ridleyfarmstudio.com...

Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:02

Hello, hello! And welcome back to your new episode of The Seaword with Catherine Redden. This is episode 27. 20 bloody seven. Look, and episode 27 feels a bit like when you're twelve years old. You're not a little kid anymore. You've got some stories of your own. You know that time you jumped off the trampoline and boat boat broke both bones and both arms. There's no way you are nowhere close to being an adult. But you're just sort of wandering around with a vague sense of optimism and absolutely no idea of what's coming next. That is exactly how I feel with this podcast. Twenty-seven episodes feels like a big deal. But like by the end of the year I'll be saying 57 and then 107 and then a thousand and seven. And by then, by then, if you're still with me, you will know every single little detail there is to know about me. Aren't you lucky? Before we get started, I wanted to check in and see how are you going? Really, how are you going? How's your week? How's your day? How are you traveling? I've got a lot of listeners in the northern hemisphere. It's your summer. It's you you you're a few weeks into summer. You know the sun is I know the sun's very hot in Italy at the moment, so but if you're in the Southern Hemisphere where the bulk of my listeners are, winter is winter has arrived. And I love winter, but I know that not everybody is a cold bunny like me. So I really hope that you're having a great week. I never quite know what to say after that because some days are great and some days really suck. And sometimes both of both of those things happen all at once. So wherever you're listening from, whether you're walking the dog, avoiding your inbox, folding the washing, driving to work, wondering about what to have for dinner, hiding from your family, family in the loo, sitting in the garage, waiting for the podcast to end and you can go inside. I hope you've had at least one good moment in the past seven days. Just one. A good coffee, a text from a friend, a dog that you look after, or a dog that you patted in the street, a laugh, five minutes of peace, something. Something. When I launched this podcast back in February, I thought I knew exactly what it was going to be. I spent a very long time mapping out the first 12 episodes. I started thinking about it probably at the end of November 2025, and I didn't launch this until February the 9th. And at one stage, I wasn't going to launch it until March 2026. There was a lot of planning. And can I tell you, I think I've only recorded one of the episodes that I of those twelve that I planned. I knew it was going to be about feminism and women and mental health and culture. The weirdness of being a human, beautiful things that I notice in the world. But things kind of, you know, the best plans and all that, they don't always plans don't always shape into what we think they will. And what I didn't expect is to absolutely love the conversations. I actually didn't think I would interview anyone for about a year. I didn't think I knew how to with the tech. I thought it would be beyond me and my budget. I thought I would have to wait until I had a bit of a budget and I could record in the studio. Turns out, no. There are much simpler ways to do it. The way I do it, actually, I'm gonna not gatekeep at all. I set up a Zoom and if if I'm interviewing someone, I set up a Zoom, send them the link, record the Zoom, and then I send that off to an a podcast editor who edits out all the ums and ahs. And when I say shit fudd cunt and it's not appropriate, that gets edited out as well. I have loved the conversations that I've had, and I'm really strong. One of the values of this podcast, which sounds wanky. The ethos of this podcast is something that I find hard to articulate, which as I know you're shaking your head, you're like, you're a podcaster articulate. Everyday women telling us about their everyday, but it's extraordinary. I find the lives of women, every woman, extraordinary and beautiful and tragic and funny and fun. And I mean some are inspirational, but like I don't I don't want to be a podcast that only I mean, or that even interviews celebrities just because they're celebrities. I want to interview women because most of us go through life cooking and cleaning and learning and working and planning and loving and raising and all of that. All of that. Women's lives are very complex and very full, and I I really want to shine a light on that. The more episodes I record, the more convinced I become that ordinary people are carrying around extraordinary stories. Ordinary women, and I don't mean ordinary in a boring way, I mean the woman sitting next to you on the bus, the woman behind you dropping her kid off at school, the woman you pass at Bunnings when you've been sent there to fetch something, or if you're going there to fetch your own carpent supplies, the woman on the sausage sizzle out the front of Bunnings, the woman talking on the radio in whoever it is, ordinary women, the 99.999% of us, we are carrying around extraordinary stories. Speaking of conversations that don't usually happen in public, on Saturday, the 25th of July, I'll be hosting a women's circle at the Gulwa Library. And I'm gonna spell Gulwa for you because if you're in South Australia, often Gawla and Gulwa get mixed up. So Gulwa is the one at the mouth of the mighty Murray River, G-W-O-L-W A. So I'm hosting a women's circle at the Gulwa Library on Saturday, the 25th of July, about first periods. It's gonna be a really small event, and it's very much it's a conversation, it's not a lecture. Places are really, really limited because we want it to be intimate, and I want everyone who comes to have the chance to share it if they want to. It's free. Um, you can book on Eventbrite. If you would like more information, have a look at the show notes from this episode. I'll put in a link to the Eventbrite. And also, there's a question about halfway down in the show notes that says, What worked? What dragged? What made you mad? Jesus Christ, Catherine, tell me. Click that and send me a message and I get it as a text. I don't even know how that works, but I do. You can ask about the women's circle, you can tell me what you thought of this episode, or gently, not so gently, inform me when I've got something completely batshit wrong. All feedback gratefully received. Well, most of it. Today's guest is one of those people whose story quietly changes the way you see the world. Today's guest is Ellie Rowlands. And Ellie wrote something in her guest form, like her intake form, that I think captures a reality many people move through without ever fully noticing. She said, ableism isn't just about big moments. It's built into everyday systems and environments. And honestly, once you start seeing that in your environment, you can't really unsee it. Because disability and accessibility conversations are often framed around dramatic moments, heroism, inspiration, charity campaigns, major discrimination cases. But a lot of inequality actually lives in much quieter places. Buildings, public spaces, assumptions, community planning, events, transport, bathrooms is a big one, seeding, signage, timelines, expectations. And when those systems are designed without the disabled person in mind, what's really happening is people are being subtly excluded from participating in their in their own communities. Well, that's a big intro. Thanks for listening, Ellie. Ellie, thanks so much for being here. Thanks for having me, Catherine. Tell us a little bit about yourself.

SPEAKER_00 9:08

So I grew up in Madge, New South Wales with my dad and my mum and my four sisters. So there was never really a quiet moment in our house, like ever. Five sisters.

SPEAKER_01 9:18

Where where do you come in the five?

SPEAKER_00 9:21

I'm the baby. Oh, hello. I don't know if that's a good or bad thing, but um, yeah, there's definitely some perks when you're younger and the youngest. So um, yeah. Had a lot of fun with my four sisters growing up. And I also um I was born with Spina Bifida, so that kind of shapes how I move through life and my business. And living in regional New South Wales, it's more personal here. Like people generally care about each other. There's lots of family, community, and knowing everywhere everyone, everywhere you went, which is sometimes a bad thing, sometimes a good thing. Um, and I also run my business Bio Creative, and I've been doing that for about five years now, and I specialise in wedding stationery branding.

SPEAKER_01 10:07

I don't know much about spina bifida. Are you comfortable sharing a little bit about what that's like for you and what it has been like?

SPEAKER_00 10:17

So there's different forms of spina bifida, like people can, you know, walk and still have spina bifida. So the one that I've got, it's when the spinal core doesn't connect with the tailbone, the lower part of your spine. So, as I said, there's different forms, but I've got the form where I'm in a wheelchair, so um, yeah, that's um that's what I have. I love how you just say it casually.

SPEAKER_01 10:45

Oh, that's what I have. That's what that's it. And I think a real overarching theme of this podcast is I really like to talk to everyday people doing everyday things. And that and that doesn't mean boring or not amazing. It just means I love, like I really love to do that. And so you wrote that ableism often shows up in small constant ways. I guess I'm interested in what do you mean by ableism? And how does that look like in your day-to-day?

SPEAKER_00 11:22

So, what I mean is by that is if I was to go down the street and be down there for a long time, and if I needed to use the bathroom, I would try to find one, but there's really only three bathrooms. And how big is Munchie? How many people? I don't know how many, but it's definitely grown over, like since COVID. So it's definitely a lot bigger than it was 10 years ago. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 11:50

So it's it's got banks and schools. Because I grew up in a town of 50. So we're not talking about a town that size. We're talking about how many high schools does it have?

SPEAKER_00 12:00

I want to say two or three.

SPEAKER_01 12:03

Yeah, so two or three high schools. Does it have a hospital? It does, yeah. Yeah, so it's a big, it's a big country town. Big enough to have a disabled bathroom that that works properly. My Jean.

SPEAKER_02 12:14

Definitely, yes.

SPEAKER_00 12:16

Yeah. Um, yeah, not everyone has as I mentioned to you um when we spoke last, people don't mean to be discriminatory towards disabled people. Like it's not their world, which is fine, but we're in 2026 now, and it's really important that everyone's included.

SPEAKER_01 12:38

Yeah, because I imagine, I mean, I live in a in a I might I where I mainly live in a country town, Victor Harbor is a similar I suspect it's a similar size. Um we've got I think three high schools and a hospital and you know, all of that stuff. Um but there's all not but and there are also a lot of people who use wheelchairs to get around. And with walk, and it's not just wheelchairs, it's walkers, walking sticks, you know, people, people who might have people I'm I'm tripping over my words here. Maybe you could help me out. You said something interesting to um before we were recording about heritage listed places. Like what how does that I was gonna say trip you up? Sorry about the pun. How does that how does that love that? Yeah, I don't know if I don't know if I love it. I feel a bit dumb. But so I so talk about heritage list because I imagine Maggie's got beautiful heritage listed cafes and shops.

SPEAKER_00 13:40

Yeah, so I don't know how old the town is. I want to say like over a hundred years, probably so they were all built back then. So there's you know, there's steps in a majority of the the clothing shops, and you know, it's not all shops, like some of the cafes I can get into and some of the shops, but yeah, it's just um half of them, especially in the main street. It's there's a lot of heritage uh shops.

SPEAKER_01 14:08

And you want to be spending your money because you're a local business, I imagine you'd love to be spending your money locally more easily. Definitely, yes. And can you talk to us about what ableism is? Because I'm not really sure.

SPEAKER_00 14:21

Well, I actually looked up the definition, but I'll kind of in my own words. Yeah, yeah, go for it. Um, so what Google told me is it's discrimination, pred prejudice, social opposite oppression, I'm gonna say that wrong, uh people peop against people with physical, mental, or developmental disabilities. So Yeah, so kind of in a way they just don't think about people that are disabled. It's not their world, as I said before, so they just don't think about it. And they don't they don't have them in their mind when they make decisions.

SPEAKER_01 15:01

Yeah, so it's like building a new building. I mean, I'm sure there are codes now too about putting ramps in and things like that, but um it's a lot more subtle than that, I imagine. And I think as we talk in this podcast, we'll probably come up with lots more. Do you have any subtle examples of ableism you've experienced recently?

SPEAKER_00 15:24

Um not in my town. But if I was to go to, you know, Sydney or even on a holiday, I would be asked to move so that I'm not in the way. Or yeah, just like little things.

SPEAKER_01 15:41

What do you mean? I don't understand. What do you mean move so you're not in the way?

SPEAKER_00 15:44

So this actually it this didn't happen in Australia, but actually when I was in Hawaii, I mean my mum went to a restaurant to have lunch, overlook on the water, and the um the the waitress or the waiter said, Oh, can you actually not go by the water? Like you're gonna be in the way. So maybe if you go over here. Oh yeah. What did you do? Sorry, I want to think I think I was about 15 or 16. So like back then I would have just been like, okay, yeah, okay, no worries. Because I didn't really think about it then. But now is it because you didn't want to be in the way? I think so. I think that was my mindset back then.

SPEAKER_01 16:33

Yeah, you're not in the way ever. I mean, I'm sure you know that now, but you're never in the way as a human who's living in a different type of body.

SPEAKER_00 16:42

Yeah, so yeah, just situations like that. And I'm actually very lucky being in Maji. I don't people don't really say those things to me. They say other things, but nothing to like get out of the way. What other things do they say? Oh, you know, the usual like, what's wrong with you? when like would point their finger like it's a magic wand around you, like what's the problem? And I'm like, well, there's no problem. And actually, when I was younger, I would get stuck giving them an answer. I'd be like, oh um, uh, and I'm like, now I'm thinking, why? Just tell them. I'm not telling you, like, I'm just doing my shopping. I'm not telling you to I'm not saying to you what's wrong with you. So why is it yeah, but you help me? Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 17:38

And I I know that not everyone's as blunt as me, but I have I'm not trying to one up anyone, but I have quite bad social anxiety. And if somebody talks to me in public that I haven't invited that I'm not comfortable with, I say, look, I hope you don't mind, but I don't talk to people I don't know. Yeah, I love that. Yeah, and mostly people will apologize. Some people get quite defensive, but mostly people will apologize and just walk away. Yeah. Yeah. So I find I find that works. I just say, you know, with an even tone, I'm really sorry, but I don't talk to people I don't know. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 18:20

Yeah, I know. I'll don't you worry, I wish I could say that like all the time. Sometimes it's not appropriate when you're in a shopping centre and wanting to swear at someone to piss off.

SPEAKER_01 18:32

And do you think I think I mean, I'm sorry for talking over here. And I I mean I grew up in regional Australia or rural Australia as well, and have spent a little quite a bit of my working life in regional Australia too. And I love the sense of community, but at the same time, it can be exhausting. And do you kind of feel like because do people recognise you? I guess people recognise you in the street more often. And do you feel compelled to have these polite little discussions with people when really you just want to find a coffee?

SPEAKER_00 19:09

Yeah, I mean, it depends on what my mood's like. If I'm in a really crappy mood and just don't want to talk to anyone, if someone comes up to me and says, Oh, what's wrong with you? Um, I really feel like saying, Can you just go away? Like, I can't talk to you. So I need to. I've been working on building my confidence to just say, Look, I don't share my personal medical information with people that I don't know. Like it's it's common sense, you just don't ask that.

SPEAKER_01 19:41

Yeah, yeah. Yeah, no, I I absolutely agree. Do people tend to think accessibility only matters for a small number of people?

SPEAKER_00 19:50

I think so. I think they just think about, you know, oh, we've only got a handful of people with disabilities. Like that's only a small part of the community, but we've got to think about everyone. So let's just think about the able-bodied people. You know what I mean? Like they just kind of forget about the small number of people with disabilities in the region.

SPEAKER_01 20:12

And it but it's not it, but it's not a small number though, Ellie, because I looked it up. So um, and I love a statistic. So 5.5 million Australians have a disability. That's 21.4% of the population. To put another way, one in five Australians are disabled. And some key stats in there, because I imagine maybe all of those people don't need a ramp or an accessible toilet or a wider doorway. But 8% of Australians have a profound or severe disability. And I think the other thing to remember is disability becomes much more common with age. And so when we're talking about accessibility, sorry, I feel like I'm talking over you, but when we're talking about accessibility, we're not just talking about wheelchairs, we're talking about walkers and walking sticks and crutches. Have I left anything out? Talk to me about that.

SPEAKER_00 21:16

Yeah, well, as I said before, it could be anyone, like it's people with prams, people that are missing an arm or a leg, or people that are blind or deaf, or anyone. And as you said, like comes with age, like one person's gonna be disabled in one aspect of their life, whether they're a teenager or they're they're elderly. If you break your leg, you're you can't walk for a certain amount of time. So even when you're younger, it doesn't matter. You can be you can become disabled.

SPEAKER_01 21:52

Do you think No it does? Do you do you think people who break their leg are given more grace than someone whose parents Yes, definitely.

SPEAKER_00 22:03

And how does that show up? I think and this happened when I was at school. So someone would break their leg and they would, you know, get all the lot of it.

SPEAKER_01 22:21

I remember when my brother broke his arms. Yeah. I'm gonna come off as a jealous sibling. But he broke both bones in both arms. Yeah. And he got, and it was Christmas time, and he got so much attention. I know it was hard for Chris. I know he couldn't go swimming. I know mum had to wipe his bottom. I know all of that. But like he got so much, like every he was catered to in every single way. And like, I guess is what you're saying is that when someone breaks a bone or has a do we say temporary disability? Is that right? I don't even know. Um they can get a lot of attention. Whereas you and others, you live permanently with this. I was gonna say bullshit, but that's probably not right. You live in this body permanently that has trouble accessing what the rest of us able-bodied people just access without even thinking. And that must and that must be exhausting.

SPEAKER_00 23:25

Yeah, I mean it is exhausting. Yeah, having to advocate for yourself all the time, like all day, every day. Doesn't matter what you're doing, you always have to advocate for yourself. And it does, it becomes really exhausting. But you've just got to keep going and pushing through until you get uh freedom and like get to live like everyone else.

SPEAKER_01 23:47

And how do you how would you tell our listeners that have a disability, how would you tell them to self-advocate? Because I think that's a really important point, is that with any kind of disability illness, for me, self-advocacy is the only way I've ever gotten anywhere. It is exhausting, but how would you how do you do that?

SPEAKER_00 24:15

So it's actually a very new thing for me. So at the start of the year, I won Young Citizen of the Year for a failure. Congratulations. That's amazing. Thank you. Um, and so then I just wanted to use the award, like something good that happened and turn it into a positive change for everyone. So it's something new that I've been doing with advocacy, but I started with talking to the council, attending like the access committee. I'm part of that now, and there's have your say sessions with the council. So getting in with the council is really important because you can make a difference, even if they say no once, you just have to keep going and be loud until they hear you. So definitely start with that or start with people in politics, your local member. Like I spoke to Douglas Saunders and Andrew G, and they were really helpful. So definitely talk to someone in your town or the council.

SPEAKER_01 25:20

And what about if you don't please say if you don't want to answer this, but what about medically? Have you had to self-advocate?

SPEAKER_00 25:27

Yeah, definitely. There would be times where my NDIS package wouldn't have everything that I need, like basic things like a bed or a kitchen or a bathroom, and even my wheelchair, that took a really long time to get. And oh really, yeah, and it's something that I obviously need all day every day. So it took a long time to get those things, and they were just complaining, or their excuse was, oh, you might like there's other ways around it, like having a wheelchair. It's like there is not, unless you want me to crawl everywhere.

SPEAKER_01 26:07

Oh gosh. And I imagine that just sounds so exhausting and demoralizing.

SPEAKER_00 26:14

Yeah, and it is, and they don't think about it because they're not in that world, but it's basic human rights. Like a bed is like an important thing that you anyone needs. And I had to rent a chair, a wheelchair for two years before I had to rent one, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 26:37

Holy sh holy shit. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 26:41

That's just appalling. Yeah, that's um I've got all those now, thankfully, but um, yeah, took just took a really long time and it was just really frustrating and exhausting.

SPEAKER_01 26:54

Do you think that our accessibility gaps feel different in regional areas to urban areas?

SPEAKER_00 27:00

Yeah, I think so. I think I don't know if it's you know the travel or the cost, it could be a number of things, but I've just I definitely feel like regional people with disabilities in regional communities are forgotten most of the time.

SPEAKER_02 27:15

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 27:17

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 27:18

I mean, it's kind of it's getting it's tricky, isn't it? Because I I mean I living in a regional town is beautiful, you know. But I imagine for you it's also really much harder than living in a city. Definitely. Because I imagine I could be wrong, but talk to me about the public transport in Mudgee.

SPEAKER_00 27:41

So it's not that bad. Okay. But um, yeah, so I normally get around my support worker has a van that I can use um every now and then. There's accessible maxi taxis that are around. Definitely needs to be more of that. But yeah, they're they've been great. They take me to the hospital or anywhere where I need to go. So I'm thankful that way. But um actually sometimes the taxis break down, which is a shame. So yeah, it's harder that way, but other than that, they're they've been really good.

SPEAKER_01 28:20

Are there forms of ableism people think are harmless but actually aren't?

SPEAKER_00 28:26

Yeah, it's some, yeah, people that like if there's an event on and it's upstairs, they they don't think it's harmful, but I I can't actually get up there to go to this event. And then they go, Oh, okay, yeah, sorry, we can get a rape and we can do this, and there's ways around it. But I'm like, if it wasn't set up for people like me, anyway, what's the point of doing those things? It's just little things, especially in planning events, that they just don't think about it. But it's it's harmful.

SPEAKER_01 29:02

Have you ever like had a situation where someone you don't know has tried to push your wheelchair?

SPEAKER_00 29:08

Um, when I was younger, definitely. I'm in an electric wheelchair now. So if you try to push it, you can't.

SPEAKER_01 29:16

Right, good.

SPEAKER_00 29:17

Yeah, like it definitely would have happened when I was younger. And people would, you know, walking past put their hand on my handle, like to balance themselves.

SPEAKER_01 29:28

What? Touch me. Do they still do that?

SPEAKER_00 29:32

No, they don't anymore. Touch wood. But um, yeah, things like that. And it would be fine with obviously people that I know, I don't really care, but people that I don't know, it's like, no, you can't do that.

SPEAKER_01 29:46

No, no, don't touch me. Like your wheelchair is an extension of your body. Definitely. Holy hell. Yeah, I know. Tell me, what does inclusion actually feel like when it's done well?

SPEAKER_00 30:00

It's the what starts with planning, planning to make the event or whatever you're doing accessible for everyone. So it starts with that, and it a great way would be to ask someone who's disabled, how how do I make this more inclusive? So just little things like that, making sure that the event or anything uh is catered for everyone, not just able-bodied people.

SPEAKER_01 30:29

Yeah, and so by events we're talking about sporting events and you know, even I imagine like a meditation class, or um, I'm trying to think of events and my brain isn't. Can you help me out here, Lee?

SPEAKER_00 30:45

Uh, so we have a thing called Flavors and Mudgy in the town. So I think that's in October. So there's, you know, heaps of people, there's thousands and thousands of people that come for that. So that's one event where if it's done well, it could be catered for everyone. So it is tricky with crowds, which sometimes you can't help, but yeah, that's one um example.

SPEAKER_01 31:14

Tell me how it's tricky with crowds at the flavors of Munchie.

SPEAKER_00 31:18

The one thing why where it's tricky is if they just, you know, stop in the middle of the road and you can't get past, or do you mean like so do you mean like when patrons uh uh like is it an event with food trucks?

SPEAKER_01 31:33

Like just describe to us what it is.

SPEAKER_00 31:35

Sorry. So yes, so it has, you know, about 50 food stalls and oh it's a wine country wine town, so there's lots of wineries around and so about three three or f two or three streets are closed. They block the streets off so people can walk around or wheel around or whatever on the road, on the paths, and yeah, so it's a it's an event that goes for a couple of hours, but it's it's really fun. It's cut there's a lot of crowds.

SPEAKER_01 32:07

And and do you mean by people stopping in like do you mean that like patrons just stop in the middle of the street and you're like trying to navigate and it's I imagine much more difficult in a wheelchair than when you're walking?

SPEAKER_00 32:20

Definitely. In even if I'm going to an appointment, like if it's if I'm gonna go meet a client, and if people are walking really slow in front of me and like holding hands and being really cutesy, and and they're just going really slow, and like, come on, guys, like let me get past. They take up the whole pathway. So things like that as well as just people walking slow is um my pet peeve.

SPEAKER_01 32:47

I don't think you're alone with that. Yeah, I think a lot of people listening to this will be saying, I I actually know I've got one listener who hates slow walkers. Yeah, he will be saying, I hear you go. Yeah. Definitely. Talk to me about running your business and being a human with a disability as well. Like how is it how has it affected that?

SPEAKER_00 33:14

Yeah, so um when did I finish school? 2019 I finished school and straight after that I I applied for a nine-to-five job and I got it and worked worked there for about six months. And then I developed a pressure injury, which if you don't know what a pressure injury is.

SPEAKER_01 33:38

I don't know.

SPEAKER_00 33:39

So, for example, if you're going for a run and you've got a stitch, you would, you know, sit down or rub it or whatever to make it feel better, right? So I can't feel that. I can't feel my legs. So if I had a stitch, I can't like elevate it to relieve the pressure. So because I sit down all the time, that's how I develop this injury. And from there, I had to leave my job for that, and I got it surgic the infection surgically removed, it was fine. And it was that deep that I was bedridden for about four and a half years, five years. Yeah, yeah, it was and it was 2020 as well, so it was um, it was really good timing. COVID. Yeah, definitely. Yeah, so yeah, I just um, you know, bedridden, not really knowing what to do, going out to the hospital like three times a week to get it bandaged. So I'm like, I don't want to just sit here and be depressed. I don't want to just wish that I don't didn't have the injury and just cry all the time. It's exhausting. So I thought I'm creative. I've done art classes at school and after school, so why don't I use that creativity to I don't know do something with it? So I did a few courses and I did designs for my family and friends, for my sisters' weddings, and just from there it just grew. So it was kind of on like it was kind of by accident that I have this business, but it's the best thing that's ever come out of this injury.

SPEAKER_01 35:29

So you did some freebies for your sisters.

SPEAKER_00 35:32

I did, yes. They owe you Ellie. Come on, guys.

SPEAKER_01 35:39

You did some freebies for your sisters and discovered that you loved it and were good at it, and now you've got tell me the name again. Is it L? Tell me the name again.

SPEAKER_00 35:48

So it's called by L Creative. So I specialise in branding and wedding stationery. And so what do you mean by branding? So what I mean by branding is you know, logos and business cards and letterheads. So anything to do with business and the design side, I do that. And for weddings, that would be invitations, seating charts, menus, all of that.

SPEAKER_01 36:14

I will put your um your business details in the show notes. So if people are, are you taking on new clients? I am, yes. Okay, so if people are interested in if they're getting married, if they need a new logo, you should definitely contact Ellie. Um, I'm interested in how you manage your disability and your work because I mean I do I imagine you get tired. I'm not sure. Talk, tell me about that.

SPEAKER_00 36:47

Yeah, so I get tired like anyone else, but sometimes my energy, you know, yeah, sometimes my energy is um not as long as anyone else's, like half the day, like one o'clock, one thirty, in about 20 minutes, I'll be exhausted. So it depends on the day, but and I also have diabetes as well. So that kind of plays with my life and my business. So if I'm if I've got a hypo, if I'm my blood sugar's low, I'm really cranky, and I just cannot concentrate. Even when I'm high, I get really cranky. You don't want to talk to me when I'm high, and yeah, I just cannot function, cannot think about anything, can't even speak sometimes. So yeah, that that makes it hard, but I just adapt. Like my energy, my productivity, and everything changes every day. So it just I just have to do the best I can. And when I've got the energy, I'll do the work then. And when I don't, I just have to rest. And my clients have been really I'm thankful that I've got really good clients that understand that.

SPEAKER_01 38:03

Yeah, because it is. I mean, I run a marketing business for quite a while, and it's a two-way street, right? It's sort of I was always pretty upfront with my clients. Um not all the time, sometimes I stuffed it up. But yeah, it's it's because your health, I mean, obviously your health is the most important thing. Yes, I know weddings are important, but if you haven't ordered your wedding station ring way in advance, do it now. Do it the minute you get engaged, it should be the first thing you do. Yes, definitely. Don't worry about booking a venue. The venue can wait. Talk to me first. As soon as you've got a date, talk to Ellie. Yeah. Yeah. So so and I I um do you think you might not be able to answer this, but do you think living in a country town a regional town, sorry, a regional city, I don't know, a regional city, um, do you think the community are are supportive of your business?

SPEAKER_00 39:15

Oh, definitely, yeah. When I got the Australia Day Award, everyone, like in the town in Ralston, which is like two hours away, everywhere, they just were so supportive and like they all sent me, everyone sent me really nice messages and even people I don't know. So it's those moments where in living in a regional town, community is just so important, like and also when I was younger, the Lions Club, which I don't know if you know what the Lions Club is, and you can find a definition if you don't. But um, when I was younger, they actually don't know if the right word is gifted or donated, but they gave me a wheelchair when this is and all that.

SPEAKER_01 40:03

Before NDIS.

SPEAKER_00 40:05

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 40:06

That's a really lovely thing to do. So the Lions Club and the Rotary Club, they're international and they're quite similar in that they do lots of amazing things for local communities.

SPEAKER_00 40:18

Yeah, it was it was I was I was younger, so I don't remember, but it was um really lovely of them to do that.

SPEAKER_01 40:25

Do you do you think that or what do this is a better way to ask the question? What do disabled people bring to communities that often gets overlooked? Oh, that's a good question. Uh they I'm here for good questions, people.

SPEAKER_00 40:42

I'm here for the good questions. I I guess it bring it they bring a different perspective on things. So they can give you new ideas and different tips on how to make places more inclusive. So they they don't think like we don't think like able-bodied people. We we have a different perspective and a different understanding. So that's where they really come in handy. That's where they they're really important, people with disabilities, because they can give people a different perspective.

SPEAKER_01 41:19

And I think that's so important because that because that different perspective lets us look in th look at things in a you know, a problem that may have seemed unsolvable because humans who live in I don't like this word disabled, but anyway, if you're comfortable with it. Because humans who live in disabled bodies have to carefully map out, I imagine, your day and then when you're going out, a lot more than able-bodied people. And so you're quite thought, I imagine, quite thoughtful about what needs to happen when.

SPEAKER_00 42:18

Yeah. And yeah, it's just said we we've got to plan our day. Like if if I'm going to an event, I've got to plan beforehand. Like, I've got to have my medication, I've got to make sure I've got my insulin pen and a needle, I've got to make sure I go to the bathroom because don't know if they've got an accessible bathroom. So there's so many steps in planning your day that able-body people don't understand, which is, you know, that's not their life, but it it really gets hard when plans change, when you've already planned this thing. And when plans change, it can be very hard.

SPEAKER_01 42:59

But like if a location changes or a time changes, because you've booked your, I imagine, your transport, and if you need your support worker, and then you've said to clients, no, I can't do this on that day, and then all of a sudden the time changes, it affects you greatly. Definitely. Look, and I I think also I I think I want to say accessibility isn't a favor, it's infrastructure for participation. Like accessible for when I think about accessibility, we're not doing anyone, the council, the the state government, the federal government, you're not g doing anyone a fucking favor. It's about participation for every person.

SPEAKER_00 43:44

You know. Yeah. Like it and it's it shouldn't be hard either. It's just as simple as making sure everyone's included. Like it and as I said before, it doesn't have to be people and build like wheelchairs. gonna be people that are blind, people that have got prams, and people that I don't know are are deaf. Like it's it's everyone.

SPEAKER_01 44:10

Yeah, it's and like that statistic we talked about before 5.5 million Australians. So that's about I think one in ten people or no one in five. I can't remember. Cut that bit out Gazille. 5.5 million Australians have a disability. It's a pretty good chance that those people need access in a different way to able able bodied people regardless of the nature of their disability. Yeah. What is one thing you hope that listeners might notice differently after hearing this conversation I just hope that they realise that we're all we're all human.

SPEAKER_00 44:56

Like I'm not different to you Catherine like I the only difference is that I'm well you are because you probably follow rugby leg.

SPEAKER_01 45:05

No I don't I was gonna say okay that should be land no exactly we've thought all all jokes aside you're exactly right to be human is to be human.

SPEAKER_00 45:19

We don't get to be more human definitely yeah it's just yeah we're we're like everyone else but we have a few differences that we're all human.

SPEAKER_01 45:33

Yeah we've had a long ranging talk this morning and I'm aware that it's getting to that time of day for both of us where I want to shut the door and have a decap iced coffee and pat the dog tell me something that gives you joy in your life what's bringing you joy right now so much um I love that.

SPEAKER_00 45:57

Yeah as soon as you asked me that I thought about my dog.

SPEAKER_01 46:00

Oh what sort of dog do you have so she is a poodle and a dash oh my gosh what I think we need to post a picture for the listeners a poodle and a Daxon what an attitude that a she a he are they she her name's Edie E D or Evie Eie with a D for Delta? Yes oh what kind of personality does she have uh she's a rat bag where is she now she's at my door you want me to bring her in well the listeners won't be able to see her but maybe if you're just you'll cut this bit out but maybe if you're comfortable I might post when we launch the episode I might post a picture of her if that's okay. Yeah. Um and how does she how does Edie bring you joy?

SPEAKER_00 46:48

Oh she's just the best she came at a point in my life where as I said before I was bedridden with this injury and she came in the middle of that so I actually had an assistant's dog um and he passed away in 2020 as well was a really I'm sorry to hear that that's very sad I'm really sorry to hear that. Yeah it was actually this is actually the first time I haven't cried about him so what was his what was his name his name was Kaiser Ka oh what a great name Kaiser the King I I didn't come up with it they did the um assistant dog Australia but um yeah so he he was my assistant dog and he did everything for me so when I found Edie and went oh whether not I'm still getting over the loss of Kaiser but when my this is she's my support worker's um dog so when she brought her in one day when she was a baby and went oh okay I can't say no now or she's looking yeah stacked her now and does she go everywhere with you? She does sometimes she she doesn't like other dogs. Fair enough she thinks she's bigger than she is so she does we don't take her where dogs are we take her basically everywhere except for places with dogs.

SPEAKER_01 48:10

And you said there were lots of things bringing you joy is there anything else you'd like to share about joy in your life well I probably should have started with my family and friends oh no they they no no they have to be no oh no I'm only kidding talk to me about your family and friends.

SPEAKER_00 48:27

Yeah so um I'm really close with all my family other grew up with four sisters and my mum and dad and yeah really close with family and yeah they they were really supportive during that difficult time in my life so it's um yeah very lucky to have them and another thing that brings me joy I didn't speak about this earlier but I actually volunteer uh at a hospital yep so that that really brings me joy every time I went up there for my doctor's appointments I would see this little group going to a a room and playing bingo and dancing and I'm like well I've got FOMO now I need to join so I've been uh doing that for about a year and a half and it's members of the elderly community in Mudgy like come together and um yeah it's really special and they're just the best. Let's give them a shout out what's their name it's um Mudgy Wellness group.

SPEAKER_01 49:32

The Mudgy Wellness Group.

SPEAKER_00 49:34

So you volunteer for them a couple of times a week at the hospital or yeah so it's Wednesdays and Fridays.

SPEAKER_01 49:41

I that's I just think that's incredible given I mean I don't volunteer now I'm feeling quite bad about it. But you I I think that's amazing. So no wonder you were given the Australia Day Award for was it tell me the name of the award again?

SPEAKER_00 49:55

It was Young Citizen of the Year.

SPEAKER_01 49:58

No wonder your council gave you Young Citizen of the Year. I feel quite you know less lesser of a human. So that I want to thank you on behalf of your community which I'm not entitled to do for all your volunteer work.

SPEAKER_00 50:12

What does your life look like these days so I'm doing my business at BioCreative and recently I've just started going into disability advocacy and more public speaking. So this is a great opportunity to practice my public speaking so I talk about my life what it was like doing a nine-to-five with a disability what it's like having an injury and running a business so that's um a new adventure that I've got now you're a pro.

SPEAKER_01 50:45

You don't need to do any more practice I'm telling you you've you're you're an absolute pro, Ellie. So if anyone's out there who's looking for a keynote speaker, definitely get in touch. Ellie, thank you so much for this conversation. I think what's really powerful about what you've shared today is that it reframes disability away from individual limitation and back towards system design and participation. And what I mean by that is it's everybody's responsibility to make sure that we all have access to this beautiful planet and can and the communities that we live in. Ellie I cannot thank you enough. Thank you so much for coming on the C word.

SPEAKER_00 51:28

Thank you so much for having me Catherine it's my pleasure have a great day bye