My Knee Is Older Than I Am: Adriana Obando (GUEST CHAT)

At 16, Adriana Obando shattered her femur. 

Thirty-three years, 12 major surgeries and countless procedures later, she stopped chasing “the fix.”

We talk about chronic pain, failed knee replacements, perfectionism, perimenopause, modified bikes, and why acceptance isn’t giving up. It’s choosing where your energy goes when the striving starts taking energy away from the living.

Also featuring: one Polish surgeon, one modified trike, and a trip to church.

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Also, I swear.

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Credits
Recorded on the lands of the Ramindjeri and Ngarrindjeri peoples.
Sovereignty never ceded.

Recorded & edited at Ridley Farm Studio by Luke Ridley
https://ridleyfarmstudio.com...

Transcript

SPEAKER_02 0:01

Hello, hello, and welcome to a brand new episode of The Seaword with Catherine Redden. Today's episode, I'm very pleased to be joined by Adriana Abundo. And in a minute, I'll get her to say her name because she says it much more nicely than I do. I've known Adriana for a long time, and over the years I've had the real pleasure of her friendship. I'm really grateful that she's chosen to come on the pod today and share her story. Adriana is the creator of Unjointed, a space shaped by her experience of chronic pain, major medical intervention, and adapting to a life that didn't fit the usual recovery narrative. This is a conversation about identity, adaptation, grief, humor, resilience, immigration, and what it means to move forward when your body changes the terms of the agreement. Oh, that's a long intro. Welcome to the pod, Adriana. Thank you. Thank you. Glad to be here. That's good. And where do we find you today?

SPEAKER_00 1:06

I'm in Warsaw, Poland at the moment. And um, it's a beautiful day here. So enjoying the summer now. So it's is it midsummer? It's nearly oh no, not for another couple of weeks. Yeah, no, no, it it it really just started. Um, and and it and it was raining and horrible for the last few weeks, so it's um yeah, the sun is out and it's warm, so it's um beautiful.

SPEAKER_02 1:34

And it's nine o'clock in the morning for Adriana and it's five o'clock in the afternoon for me. I'm at the other end of the earth in Victor Harbor, South Australia, where we've just had the shortest day of the year. So the sun's about to set. I'm in my car next to the beach. You may hear the waves, you may hear cars driving up and down, but that is what it's like for the glamorous life of a podcaster. So, Adriana, tell me a little, tell me a little about unjointed. I mean, I understand that you had an accident a long time ago. Tell are you comfortable telling us a little bit about that?

SPEAKER_00 2:15

Yes, yes. So um when I was 16, I was in a car accident in Colombia. Um, and I broke my femur in several parts, and um that was 33 years ago. And I've had 12 surgeries. Um the last two were um uh total rear knee replacement and then a revision um to that total knee replacement, and uh neither of them worked. So um that's that's kind of in a nutshell. So it it's been it's been 33 years of um dealing with knee and leg issues that um with some periods that were quite nice and and I was able to do a lot of things, but I have come to a point where I am now um walking with a w walking stick all the time. I can't not have it. Um and I have um arrived at a place where I had to figure out where I was spending my energy because I spent a lot of energy trying to get a fix throughout all of those years, and I decided that it was time to spend my energy living and actually enjoying what I do have, and that's kind of where an unjointed um started and and and and how it kind of came about.

SPEAKER_02 3:54

And just for the listeners at home, and this is going to be a a bit of a gruesome detail, but the femur, for those of you who don't know, is your thigh bone, and I've actually seen a man break his femur during a football match. At least, yeah, and I can tell you that I and I was only a little girl, but I can still hear him screaming in like as I think about it now. So um I can't imagine the horror, and I just wanted to say I tend to laugh a lot during my interview, but I want you to know, Adriana, that I really feel for you because I imagine that there was trauma emotional and physical trauma.

SPEAKER_00 4:42

Yes, yes. Look, I and I think it it has taken me years to kind of understand that a lot of it is was not just the physical part of it.

SPEAKER_01 4:53

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 4:53

Um and and I think, you know, and and and that's partly what adjointed is about, is it it's coming to realize that that those physical um issues that we have, and that you know, the chronic pain and and that doesn't come on its own, you know. You you you don't just take a pill to fix it or put you know a metal rod inside, which uh, you know, I've had metal roads inside, outside, like it's been a my my my um my legs are I I I say they're like a map of of all the things that have happened because I have a million, well not a million, but a a lot of um scars on it on them, but there are also scars that you don't get to see. Um, but you know, there there was a lot of trauma, and and there is um there is regret and there is guilt and there is frustration and anger and all of these emotions that come with living with something like this.

SPEAKER_02 6:00

So you described your body as a series of failed experiments. What did you mean by that?

SPEAKER_00 6:08

Um, look, when the accident happened, um they tried a few different things, um, including putting a rod inside um my thigh to kind of hold the bone until it healed. Um when they went to take it out, the bone collapsed, it went into the rod went into my knee. And so they had to use what at the time was kind of a newish technology, which is, and you have probably seen um this before, they they put pins on the outside of your leg, and then um and you and you have this uh metal rod that comes on the outside, and you have to, and I I had to actually turn this little thing at the front to help my bone grow because my leg got shorter, and um, and then you know, I've had athroscopies where they go in and they clean it up, and then things kind of go backwards again after a short while. And um, this has been a lot of trying to fix what the accident um did and what some of the I don't want to say mistakes, uh, but I think there were a few things that could have been done differently that maybe at the time would have had a bigger impact, but maybe the long-term result would have been better. And I have spoken to the doctors actually not too long ago, one of the doctors that was the the head orthopedic doctor that did these surgeries, and he he did agree with me that there were some things that he would do differently now. So, you know, 12 12 major surgeries is is a lot for one lady. So um, and and I and I I you know like it's not like it was experimental, like they they they knew what they were doing. It's just that for me it was uh trying to find this fix. And so if they said, you know, oh we might try to lift your patella so then you have a little bit more movement, I would go, all right, let's do it. Um, because I just want it, I just wanted it fixed.

SPEAKER_02 8:29

And so talk to talk a bit more about that. So it sounds like that you had an expectation that eventually there would be a fix. So what did that when you were thinking, when you were agreeing and going through all the physical and psychological trauma associated with major operations, what did you think the fix would look like?

SPEAKER_00 8:54

Um look, I I suppose when I was younger, there were decisions that were made by my parents and they were just hoping that I would walk normally without any aids. Um, because I post accident I had crutches for almost two and a half years, I think. Um and and you know, I had periods where I where I didn't need to use them, um, but they were very brief, and then they would find something like you know, they they said, Oh, your leg is now shorter, so we need to elongate it, and and so another surgery would happen, and then you know, and then they have to go in to take out all of the stuff that they have put in. And um, and so, but um after after a while, and and and as an adult, and I I wanted to be able to I f first I uh I wanted to be able to kneel down because I wanted to have children and I and I felt like that was really important, and I wanted to be able to kneel on the floor and put my butt on my on my heels, you know, like a proper kneeling down, like yeah, rest on the kneeling down position.

SPEAKER_02 10:12

You call that child's pose in yoga?

SPEAKER_00 10:15

Yes, okay. So child's pose is not a possibility for me, and it hasn't been um for 33 years. Um so um, so I wanted child's pose, and that that didn't happen. And I had I probably had about two surgeries looking for that. And and then, you know, I I I was and I still am in a lot of pain because walking is is difficult. And so I I wanted to fix that. And then after I had my children, I wanted to ride a bike, Catherine. That that was that was my dream. I wanted to ride a bike with my kids.

SPEAKER_02 10:59

I've seen you on your bike on Instagram, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 11:02

But you know, that that bike is the result of um a lot of thinking, a lot of um acceptance of what my reality is now. But I I just I wanted to ride a bike, and I couldn't find a doctor that would be that would do a total knee replacement um because I was too young. And they didn't feel that it was uh the right time for me to have it. Uh and and uh they explained all the reasons and and on the logical side it it kind of made sense that you wait until you're older and so that they you only have to have one knee replacement in your life and then you die, kind of thing. But I didn't want, I wanted to ride a bike, and so I I found a doctor that um that understood that I that the lifestyle that I wanted and and what I wanted to live right now was more important than whatever complications that might pose in the future. And so he did the surgery for me, and I I had a I had a short period of of being okay. I never did get to ride the bike because you need to be able to bend your knee enough to do a full revolution of the with the pedal.

SPEAKER_02 12:26

So I think for the listeners, it might be time to say that you wanted to ride a two-wheeled bike. A two-wheeled bike, yes, yes. So your dream was to ride a bicycle with your children, which is do you know when when we say that, like it's very humbling for me, and I think probably a lot of people to hear, and that was your dream. Do you know what stuff we to I can get on a bike to sorry, Adriana, but I can get on a bike and ride it today. You know, but it but that's your that was your dream to ride your bike with your kids, you know. That's yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 13:08

That was, you know, and and and and they they would come and ask me to come to the park, and and it broke my heart because I I could I could stand and watch them from the side, but I could never join in.

SPEAKER_02 13:22

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 13:22

And and for me, it was uh and you know, I put myself through surgery. If anyone has gone through total knee replacement, they would tell you it is one of the hardest things um that you would ever have to do. It is it is painful, the recovery is um grueling. It it it is it's just one of those things that you don't wish on your on your enemies because it's just it is horrible, right? Um and but I did that because I wanted to ride a bike and I wanted I wanted to be able to say yes to my kids. Let's go to the park and I will spend this time with you riding. Um, and you know, hours I have spent hours and thousands of dollars on physiotherapy and all on this dream, right? And then I came here to Poland and I thought maybe they are doing something different here, maybe they can help me. So I went to see an orthopaedic doctor here, and um Polish people are very direct.

SPEAKER_02 14:35

I love that. I love that.

SPEAKER_00 14:37

Yes, yes, and and it was um, and I walked in, he he he had my my my whole history and all my scans and everything for a couple of weeks, and and then and then he said to me, um, you know, I I can do because someone had suggested a surgery, and he said, Look, I I can do a surgery, we could try radiotherapy, so like the sort of thing you get when you have cancer. And he said, We we need to find an oncologist that is willing to do it on a you know non-cancer knee, but you know, they're trying this in in Germany and it might work. Um, but I'm not sure. We'll have to explore it more. And then he paused and said, but I really think that um you should just accept that this is your life. So if you want to proceed, you can come and see me in two weeks. And um, but I hope not to see you. And with that, he kind of stood up and walked me to the door. And I had tears running down my cheeks. So I was heartbroken. I was thinking this was this was the guy that was gonna sort me out, right? Like give me, give me my fix. And I cried all the way home, and I thought, this is my life. I mean, this is it. This is this is what it's going to be like. And I was heartbroken. But something shifted, Catherine, and I thought, oh my gosh, the this is this this is actually my life. This is the one I have. And I am spending hours and tears and all this uh um time on something that I don't have. And I I I just I don't think I have it in me to keep searching for this. And so um so I came home and I um and I cried some more, and then I started doing some research. And I found a company that did um modified pedals so that I could ride a bike, and then I found a supplier here, and um he made some suggestions, and so now I ended up with this trike that has a pedal that doesn't need a full revolution, so it doesn't matter that my knee is not bendy. Um he put a um a battery in, so if I get tired or if I don't have the strength, I can do an assist, and then the the motor kicks in and it, you know, it pushes the bike for me. Um and so I ride my bike every day and I have been doing it for about gosh, it'll be it'll be two years now.

SPEAKER_02 17:37

Oh wow, is it that long?

SPEAKER_00 17:39

Yes, yes. So um, and you know, I I didn't know that I could actually live a life like that. I I I always thought the bicycle is is the answer. This is my that that was my north, that was my focus. And it didn't occur to me to look at alternatives. It was just I stayed with it for many years.

SPEAKER_02 18:11

My can we go back to that moment you're in the doctor's office, your Polish doctor, and he's saying to you, I have some German relatives, so I get that I love that directness, but I I get too that it is confrontational when it's not what you want to hear. So you're back there, and for a very long time, so for about 30 years, you've you've been headed towards a fix, right? And then suddenly this doctor says basically it sounds like he said, What if there's not a fix and this is as good as it gets? Yes. What does your life look like then? And so talk to me about how you came to a decision to really embrace that because that is a very difficult thing to do, because I think a lot of our lives are spent dreaming for something better, even if we haven't broken our femur in multiple places when we were 17. You know, like a lot of our I would say that a lot of people we spend a lot of time thinking about how things can be better, and so you've had a doctor say to you, you know what, Adriana, we'll support you on that mission, but really we think you should enjoy your life as it is now.

SPEAKER_00 19:37

Yeah. Look, it w it was it was hard because I think we have been conditioned to think that you can always do your bet bet best, you know, that you that that that there is a better constant striving, yeah. Yeah, and and you know, and we see it all the time. And I mean, I I am guilty of saying to my kids, you know, do your best, you know. Like it and and you know, it you don't have to beat anyone, but do your best. And it's like, and we are we think that we must do our best to ourselves.

SPEAKER_02 20:16

I think do your best is just another way of saying please be perfect.

SPEAKER_00 20:21

Exactly, exactly.

SPEAKER_02 20:23

It's looking for perfection, and I it's couching it, it it's couching it in 70s hippie language. Because my parents used to say my parents are not hippies, by the way. Hi, Mum, she's probably listening. Um but and I mean that thanks for listening, Mum. I do appreciate it. Um, but I was always told to do my best, and my brothers, it wasn't just me, everyone was. But I really think it's just another way of saying, please be perfect.

SPEAKER_00 20:49

Yeah, I I have to agree with that. I have to agree with that, and I and I think, you know, and and even now it it's really quite interesting because even now, where I have kind of come to accept that this is my reality and that I'm going to enjoy this life, the one that I have now, with its limitations, with the difficulties, um I find people that will go, oh, but you know, there is this doctor here that maybe can help you.

SPEAKER_02 21:27

Hate those people, sorry. Yeah. I know they mean well, but honestly, keep your well-meaning sentiments to your well-meaning self.

SPEAKER_00 21:38

Yes, yes. And and look, I I always sort of go, Thank you, yes. And you know, like I have a lot of people kind of handing me their doctor's details and saying, you know, I have kidding me, they hand you their doctor's details.

SPEAKER_02 21:53

Yes, yes. And you need to you need to go to the best knee surgeon who's worked with all the footballers. in Melbourne.

SPEAKER_00 22:02

Yes, thank you, thank you. I will look into it. And that is what I do. I I will say I will look into it. And before I would have.

SPEAKER_01 22:14

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 22:14

Right? I would have and understand that you're right.

SPEAKER_02 22:18

Look, and I guess I want to say understandably there's nothing wrong with trying to get well or get thick. There is absolutely nothing wrong with that. But I think what we're saying is and please correct me if I'm wrong but what we're saying is there comes a point in your life where the striving is taking energy away from the living.

SPEAKER_00 22:47

Exactly exactly that is that is the and and I think that's at the center of all of this that I'm trying to do with unjointed and that I'm trying to do with my life. And it's not to say of course that there are days where I go oh my gosh I wish someone would just take the pain away yeah I wish I could ride a bicycle because my big bike you know can be a bit cumbersome at times and I mean I'm sure it can but I love seeing you on it.

SPEAKER_02 23:17

I love it.

SPEAKER_00 23:20

It's great and it's safe and I have met people that have stopped me in the street to ask me about it.

SPEAKER_02 23:26

It's fantastic.

SPEAKER_00 23:28

It's just like it's uh you're a trike influencer yes well I you know that's what I'm hoping what one day someone will pay me to ride my bike around and uh and make videos um on my trike so um well so for anyone listening in the show notes I will put a link to Adriana's Instagram and all the details about unjointed and let's make that dream a reality yes yes that would they that would be awesome but you know it it um this uh this that and look there are days like I was saying I I feel like I can conquer the world the world on this bike right like I have so much freedom it is amazing and Warsaw you know if any of your listeners ever think of visiting Poland Warsaw is the most amazing city and if you have a bike or you can rent a bike it is designed to be seen from your two or three wheels in my case really I didn't I haven't been to Warsaw so is it's it's like an old old old obviously an old city but it's made for bicycles it is it that the way they have there are there are bike paths everywhere and also people like people are um on their bike a lot so when you're riding you feel quite safe because cars will stop and really they like that doesn't happen in Australia to my non-Australian listeners that doesn't happen in Australia correct correct like I I I don't I don't know that I would be able to ride my trike in Australia even you know just because it takes so much room I can imagine all the cars is beeping at me and and and trying to push me off the road so but it doesn't happen here. It's very safe and so um so I have discovered the most amazing cafes and restaurants and parks because I just get on the bike and ride. I don't want to be in pain after I go out for a long ride. And and also you know like I when I was in Australia and for a long time I was able to drive but my knee has kind of gone backwards a lot a lot and so I can no longer drive oh I'm sorry to hear that yeah yeah it it's um I I just don't have the strength and the reaction time like it just won't happen. But but anyway look so so if I want to go somewhere I I ride and um and so look going back to this idea of of acceptance I think that is what my life is now and and for the foreseeable future and I am okay with that and I appreciate people's concern and someone saying oh you know but have you tried this and it's like yeah I I have tried a lot you know like I have been if if if you had like a four hour podcast you would you know I have tried um traditional stuff so you know physiotherapy I have been to chiropractor I I have been to a Reiki master um I went to a doctor that gave me medicinal um marijuana and um I assumed medicinal meant that it didn't have the effect um but it it did and so I wasn't expecting it and I had the first high oh you didn't you didn't know that medicinal is just a marketing word yeah no I just I think it was dropped it was it was it was dropped and I had C BD no no so I I was I was in Colombia and this was a this was you were in Colombia when this was a proper medical doctor and he and I went in and he he we and but he had he had done a lot of um non-traditional studies and he had been in China and India and anyway came highly recommended and he said to me you know you're storing a lot of trauma um uh you know and and you are a perfectionist and you try to control everything which was all true um and then he gave me some flower drops like you know take I I don't know like lavender for stress or whatever I can't even remember.

SPEAKER_02 28:21

Did he really was he a medical doctor? He was and he's prescribed you lavender to make your intense pain feel better.

SPEAKER_00 28:29

No it it was it was it was for my and like more more of the um because he thought I was just too controlling and so he was he's describing um natural remedies I'm I'm saying lavender but it it wasn't lavender but anyway natural remedies okay but as I'm walking out of his office he says you know Adriana I think I think you're a good candidate for um for some um medicinal marijuana drops and I said okay and I thought I had had some cbd oil before so I thought yeah I tried these let's give it a go and then I went to um to my cousin's farm and um and so I had these drops together with my painkillers that I was taking at the time and uh and my antidepressants and um you washed it down with a glass of white wine oh well actually I I at the time I I am now drinking a little bit I just I think the polish has uh rubbed on off on me but I um but at the time I didn't even drink alcohol like it's just not but I I took I took the drops um and I just you know like he said you know put four drops under your tongue or something and I just kind of picked up a few drops and squirted and a few hours later I had no idea what was happening. Oh no I was in a farm in the middle of nowhere with my 80 year old auntie and my uh um no car nothing and and and it was it was hilarious I was calling no Australian saying I don't understand what's happening to me it was just the craziest experience I was laughing and crying and and terrified because everything was kind of moving I ate like a whole basket of bread it was insane it was just um did your aunt and uncle did your did your aunt know what was going on or did they just think that you'd gone mad they they we had gone to a a lunch to it was a it was to celebrate this it was a mass and there was a priest there and I was telling the priest you know I hope this is not all they're giving us because I'm starving and anyway uh and then we went back to the farm and this is where it really hit me and she had no idea but sorry sorry sorry this is getting better and better so you went to church after you took the well yes this was because we were in a farm and I and I and we we were having this mass I and I thought we'll probably do a bit of walking I better take something so that you know so that I'm not in pain that I can enjoy the experience right yeah and I'm sitting there and the the mass was celebrated on the on the on this um like terrace in the in my other auntie's farm and so there's like bees and butterflies and this beautiful garden next to the terrace and I'm thinking oh my gosh they should have mass outdoors this is what is like this is what's missing from religion you can have to be in nature and I'm looking at the bees like it was just it was the most amazing experience I've never been to a mass like that before no me neither well I highly recommend that maybe it'll make me convince me to go back to church yes well yeah I I for a brief period I was uh I was really um you were reborn yes yes oh Adriana did you take it again or was it a one time thing um well I didn't take those once again I have taken some after um that that with that doctor I was furious because I felt he had taken my choice I at a very early age I had chosen that I would never do drugs yeah and there I was high for like five hours and um and you didn't realize that you thought that medicinal meant a little bit like non-alcoholic exactly exactly that that whatever the effect of the drugs you know like the fan effect of the drugs was removed and I would end up with the part that is healing and you know and that does or it or it's like when you use wine in cooking when you boil it the alcohol's removed. You thought that medicinal and that's I think I mean I'm giggle we're giggling right but that's because we're older and we can but I I think that yeah I I agree with you that your doctor really did you a disservice yes and I and but you know it was interesting because I went back to see him I was furious and I said I I did not pay for this this is this is I I was so angry I called him from it was a Sunday but I called him um and I left a a message saying how dare you drug me like this I can imagine I can imagine actually how dare you yeah and I was uh I I I actually in in my high I called uh my um a cousin who's a vet because she was nearby and I figured a vet is the closest thing I can get to a doctor right now and and I said I don't know what's happening to me I'm really scared and she said um you know it's okay just drink some water and then when I spoke to my husband he said okay read what the bottle said and I and I read it to him and it said you know full spectrum I don't know THC plus or something and and he just said just write it just try to enjoy it and I'm like how can people do this for fun?

SPEAKER_02 34:32

This is horrible it was because actually some people can really have a bad trip on marijuana too like it can make you paranoid yes well I think I mean that that was happening but also you know I was laughing and and it was um it was interesting because afterwards someone said well did you feel any pain like did it help with the pain and I thought oh I don't know I was I was so high and so focused on other things that I didn't like I didn't even pay attention but I but later on I I I have had um uh some that and and it does help and I actually was able to um to do to to to move a lot more um when taking the drops so I so look I have so the the whole point of this story was that I have tried a lot of stuff and a lot of thank you thank you for getting us back on track that's what I should be doing thank you Adrian yeah well um yeah but that is that was that is a fun story you've tried a lot of stuff you've done were you in Australia when we had the fish slapping ad so I can't remember what it was an ad for maybe one of the listeners can write in and tell me but it was this man I think laying on his stomach and there was a practitioner like clapping fish you weren't in Australia then anyway it was it was meant to be as saying this is a ridiculous health practice any anyway you've had a you've done a lot of stuff I'll find the YouTube and send it to you but you've done a lot of stuff yeah and and all all in the pursuit of this kind of perfect knee right living your best life but I this is this was me trying to find a solution to this broken part that I have been living with and so go.

SPEAKER_00 36:42

I was gonna sorry I cut you off see I'm being a bad podcaster today and so I guess tell us how that led to you you you said a phrase to me before I don't know whether it was before we started recording today or another time you said to me use the phrase modified but not finished and then if you want to tell us how how that led to you starting unjointed yeah so look I I think once I once I got the bike and I started to see the world in a different way I realized that in my mind having a walking stick not being able to run or to do child's pose meant that I was finished that I because you know often often people kind of think that you you get old when you just we when you can't move and and I have the knee of a well now I have a brand new knee that it's not working but you know before that I the doctors would say you have the knee of an 85 year old person. Oh right now now it's metal but but it but but my body kind of um in many ways feels very old but I thought I'm I'm not done there is still a little no I'll be 50 next year. Yeah but you're not even life begins at 50 I'm telling you yes I have I have heard and and look I am and I am looking forward to it and I think I I realized this is this is I I am not finished living and I'm not finished enjoying just because I have this limitation um and so I I'm okay with this reality and I want to celebrate it and I want to celebrate the fact that I came to this conclusion that I'm choosing this life with my wonky knee and I'm gonna get on my trike and I'm going to stop wanting to ride a normal bike and to run and to do child's pose. I can't do child's pose so I do the happy baby pose you know the one where you kind of put your legs up and roll around like a I don't know like a bug it's what I think of. Yeah so so because I I can't do the other one and so but that doesn't mean I can't attempt yoga and it doesn't mean that you know I can't do arm exercises if my legs are not cooperating. Like that there are a lot of things that we can do in our lives to to still enjoy it because it's not the end like the and and and also accepting this is not giving up you know I'm I haven't given up on life I haven't given up on my body I'm just choosing to go okay this is what I have and what what can I do with it instead of focusing on the I can't do this or I can't do that. And I no longer expect it to be perfect you know because it's not like and my body is throwing other things at me at the same time you know I'm going through perimenopause I forget everything my hair is crazy. What's your hair doing oh well it's um it's it's wild it's a bit I think it's a bit dry um it's falling I I if I collected all of that I think I would have an like probably a a soccer ball in a year of worth of worth of hair that a lot a lot of women report hair loss during perimenopause so um so it's it's crazy but also you know I'm I'm taking this um I guess like hormone replacement thing and and I just have this energy and this thirst for life and you know my libido is like through the roof I'm like my poop up like yeah I know it's like actually that's good for that's good for women to hear because uh my libido stayed the same but it's always been quite high um but I know a lot of women worry about their libido once they go through perimenopause and menopause so it's great to have a woman on here who said actually the reverse happened yes I you know what the other thing is that I think coming to this point of accepting reality has also kind of freed me from a lot of other things and self-consciousness that goes so you know like so I would be embarrassed that I'm you know I I have put on weight like I I you know it's like I'm I'm like 10 kilos heavier than I should be um or you know not should be but than I was before perimenopause started and it just kind of happened one day I was one weight and then the next day I woke up and it was like right I have this belly flopping and you know but accepting that this is my body now means that I'm showing it to my husband and it doesn't matter.

SPEAKER_02 42:32

I'm not I'm not as self-conscious as I was before even though I'm carrying more weight and probably some people might say you know I shouldn't be you know going around the way I do people can get fucked honestly those people can those people can get fucked and I heard a woman describe perimenopause and menopause like this she said it's almost like the oestrogen draining from your body is like the fox drain from it as well and you just you just you re it's really true.

SPEAKER_00 43:06

You wait till you get to menopause I I mean the the I'm not gonna glamorise it like it is awful but like once you get there that I'm the same like I go down the street now in clothes I would never have worn outside my house 10 years ago and I just don't care because I'm gonna go you know take my client's dog for a walk or whatever I'm doing I don't care you know it's not because and I actually think men find that confidence attractive yes I I I agree I agree and I I mean I find it attractive like I and you know we before we started we were talking about like I was checking myself on the on the camera of the computer I was too because most days I walk out Feeling like I look fabulous, and I don't know if I do, or if my brain, like I just have these magical glasses where I just look and go, Oh, looking good, and then you know, of course, someone takes a photo, and I'm like, Yeah, that's not what I saw this morning, but anyway, um is broken. Yes, yes, I I think so, I think so. But look, there is a lot of life um left to live, yeah, you know, and and I think even if the choice isn't always easy, and and and I don't, you know, like you said, there's no sugarcoating with these. I mean, it's hard, I'm hot, I'm cold, the hair is falling, I'm putting on weight, even if I'm trying to the hair is growing from your chin. Oh, yes, yes, I've got some of those. And you know, like I'm I'm Colombian, so like I I was already hairy, and I didn't think it could get any worse, but it, but you know, that's not something that you want to look forward to. But but look, I I just feel like okay, this this is it, and some days I don't like my body so much, and I don't like with not not the shape of it, just my knee and the limitations, and I go, ugh, I I just wish it could be different, but it's not. And I, you know, and there are days where I sit at home and I don't want to do anything because my knee hurts, and I just um I don't have the capacity to talk to people or smile or anything. Um, but there are also days where I get up and I want to go on my bike and grab a coffee and you know, do whatever, and and that's the life I'm choosing, and I'm trying to have more of those days.

SPEAKER_02 45:56

Um so tell us a bit more about unjointed. What is it? How can we get involved? Who does it help?

SPEAKER_00 46:04

Um look, unjointed is uh a little bit of uh I think at the moment it's just a safe space where people can join in, maybe hear some funny stories about what it's like to live a modified life. Um, maybe some inspiration. Um I mean, I'm I'm not claiming to be inspiring, but I think sometimes when you are able to talk about these things, and and I am in a lot of knee replacement groups, and I often post, and people say, you know, oh my gosh, I didn't have the words to say what you're saying, but that is exactly how I feel. And I think more people sharing stories of living a modified life, of accepting their reality, and not seeing it as giving up or failing, or but just embracing it, you know, and if it gets better, and you so in and jointed it's not just for you know broken people, it's just anyone that feels like they need to accept that life sometimes isn't quite what we imagine, and that is okay. So most of the people that uh come to unjointed are people that have had a knee replacement, and for a lot of people there are failed knee replacements in in a way, because we I think a lot of us go in thinking that we will have bendy knees and also straight knees, and achieving that isn't always possible. So um, so that's what unjointed is. Um I put resources there, I put my thoughts, I share videos um that I make when I'm on my bike. Um so that's that's really it. I'm not entirely sure where this is going. It's a it's a journey that started just as a space for people to share um their stories and for me to share mine and see if somehow that resonates with someone and makes them smile that day when they read whatever crazy thing it is that I wrote.

SPEAKER_02 48:36

You know, it is it is really interesting, isn't there? There's been a lot of talk about gratitude for a while, and I think I sometimes roll my eyes a little bit at these gratitude journals, and I think how often can I be grateful for a blue sky in a sunny day? But in saying that, I do think there's a lot of neuroscience behind focusing on what you have. You don't have to be grateful for it, I guess, but like focusing on what and I don't mean you, Adriana, but like for me, focus focusing on what I can do rather than what I can't. Yes, and there is something about that that I hadn't really thought of before I started talking to you. That is actually the nature of gratitude, is focusing on what you do have and what you can do, and and I'm not saying I think it's pretty natural and human to although I think it's unhelpful to wish things were different, but like getting your brain to focus on the fact that um I mean, for me, I used to walk twice a day for five or ten kilometers. Now I'm not doing that at the moment, and sometimes I beat myself up, but I can go for a 10-minute walk, you know, and I love that.

SPEAKER_00 50:04

Yes, yes, and and and I think you're right. The the idea that I mean we we can't be grateful all the time, and sometimes life sucks. Life sucks. Sometimes life sucks. It does, and and you know, and and but but I think just focusing on one thing that you can actually do. And and I, you know, I often and through this process, you know, thinking about oh my gosh, when I was in my 20s, I actually I played I I uh I played tennis when I was um in my 20s. Wow, I couldn't I couldn't run, but I would stand in the middle of the court and hit the racket. And to me, that was clean tennis.

SPEAKER_01 50:55

I didn't loved that.

SPEAKER_00 50:57

Yeah, I even had a a tennis outfit at the time.

SPEAKER_02 51:00

And you know, like do you have a picture of you and do you have a picture of you in your tennis outfit?

SPEAKER_00 51:06

I I'll have to I'll have to because I would love to put that on my socials.

SPEAKER_02 51:11

I would love to put that on my socials.

SPEAKER_00 51:14

I I will I will see, but you know, like and it was and I mean I look, I was 16 when I had the accident, so a lot of life has happened in between, right? And so I you know, so I have tried a lot of different things. I went skiing uh a few times. Snow skiing. It was uh snow skiing or water skiing? Snow skiing. I went to uh I went to Perish and I went um to New Zealand skiing. Um, and I was you know, I I was really controlled and really slow, but I did it, right?

SPEAKER_02 51:50

Wow. At the time You are inspirational, I'm sorry, but you are inspirational because I've never skied and I've always wanted to, so I can give it a go now.

SPEAKER_00 52:00

Yes, well, I mean, that's the thing, and there are things that I can do now that I, you know, like I mean, I can ride a bike, it's modified, it looks a bit different, but I am I'm doing this thing now, and I I feel like I don't want to look back and go, oh my gosh, I had this bike parked in my garage and I never went out because it was a bit clunky. Like I just I just feel like at this point in my life, without constantly thinking about how to fix this thing, what knee exercises do I need to do, when do I have physiotherapy? It it's kind of opened up my calendar, you know, and it's like what country can I visit next? It's like it's um I don't have to be focusing on that. And and and you know, yes, okay, like I, you know, I I I sometimes write what I'm grateful for, and I know it's a great exercise, and focusing on it, but but it but I to me it's more about doing and just moving when you can and going, I'm gonna try this thing because because right now my body is kind of able to do it, and I don't know if tomorrow it will be, you know, and we are all heading in the same direction, Catherine.

SPEAKER_02 53:23

Like I of course I come with the extra we're all but I have I follow someone on Instagram a lot, and they say something humans don't think about enough is we are all headed to death. Yes, and I know it's a bit deep and dark. They say that um all of this division in the world, and I'm not gonna explain it well, but like the division in the world is caused by people not reflecting on the fact that we're all headed to death. And it's okay to be scared about that, but it's also okay to live your life.

unknown 54:01

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 54:02

I didn't say that very well. Maybe you could say it better than me.

SPEAKER_00 54:05

No, like I I I don't know. Maybe maybe we should uh have a look at put send me the link to this uh because I I like that philosophy and I like that idea that you know that I mean w people get old and and and this is what happens, you know, and and people are living longer, and so a lot of a lot of pains and aches, they that maybe before you don't even you didn't even have to think about, they they will come, you know, but my knee, my body will catch up to my 85-year-old knee at some point, you know.

SPEAKER_02 54:45

By then your knee is gonna be 190.

SPEAKER_00 54:49

Exactly, exactly. But you know, like uh I I by Your knee's gonna outlast religion. So so but but really, like, I mean if you if you think about that and you go, okay, like I'm gonna do today what I can, and and and if I can't do anything, then that's okay too, you know. Like, but um, but I don't I I I just wanted to stop feeling like I was failing.

SPEAKER_02 55:22

And it it is it is real, I mean, yes, great, because we all want to, I think a lot of us feel like we're failing all the time, but it's that but what you've done is you've found a way through your Polish doctor and your own tenacity to the way that you don't fail is you concentrate on what you can do. Because you don't see it as failure anymore.

SPEAKER_00 55:48

No, and and that's the thing that because of this perfectionism, because of all you know, like everything that people are constantly showing us, I'm striving, I'm doing my best, and you know, I'm I'm putting my best foot forward or whatever the saying is.

SPEAKER_02 56:04

I'm giving it my all, I'm going further. I'm you know, like when you're in those bad 80s aerobics classes or 90s and they push it further. And I'm not a sockaroo, I don't have to do that. No, no, no. We know the soccer roos only have to do that for 90 minutes at a time.

SPEAKER_00 56:26

Yes, and and and look, there are there are people who who are doing their best, and you know, there are people that uh push themselves and they are you know brainiacs and they they they can create amazing things, and there are a lot of those people around, and there are people that work out every day and have muscly bodies and and you know can run for miles and all of those things. I'm not one of them, and me neither, you know, and we should all be okay with with the one that we have. Um I I feel like and and people sometimes and and even my dad, I love you, dad, if you listen to this, but what's your dad's name? Alan. Shout out, um but you know for him it's always like you know, how how can you be better? How can you make this you know nicer? And and I think you know, and he's the type of person that has always done more and pushed further. And you know, he had he had a double hip replacement um a few years ago, and and he's still playing football, you know, like he plays football um I think twice a week, and he plays tennis and squash and rides a bike. Like he's he's you know, he's like a machine, and he's 73 or 74, and he's you know, he's great, and I admire him, but I I I don't need to do that, and and I'm not failing at life because I'm choosing not to. I'm I'm not failing because I am accepting that this is my reality. I am accepting this and going with it and enjoying it, and I think at the end that's all we can do. We don't we don't all have to be scientists, sports people, we don't have to be the best at anything. We just have to live this life, and that's it. That's that's what I think, anyway.

SPEAKER_02 58:39

You said something really interesting to me I don't I think it was probably in the pre-chat. You said to me that we have this culture of get well soon, and that it that for someone whose condition is permanent, that get well soon is really exhausting.

SPEAKER_00 58:59

Yeah, yeah. You know, it in in Spanish the um verb to be is a little bit different because we have we have two two versions of it. One is permanent and the other one is um temporary. So can you say it for us? Yes, so so you have uh ser o estar, and ser is permanent. So if I say uh, that means uh uh I limp. Like well, I am limp, it would be the the translation. But if you say yo estoy koha, it means uh I am limping. And there's a big difference uh with that, uh you know, because uh because for a very long time uh I was uh limping, yeah, and so I would say but the reality is I limp. This is this is it, this is who I am. I limp. And people often, you know, like and I I have had people here on the street, like I I had a man um a few weeks ago um stop me. I was I was walking and I had my walking stick, and he stopped me and started speaking to me in Polish, and I I said in my beautiful accent, Niemuvion Popols, which is I don't speak Polish.

SPEAKER_02 1:00:28

Tell me again this but the C words just become multilingual.

SPEAKER_00 1:00:32

Yeah, okay. And it means I don't speak, I don't speak Polish. And so uh so he took out his phone. I was I was actually heading to uh to meet some friends, and I was running late because because I don't run, so you know, I I'm always uh no, I'm not always you were limping late, I was limping late, and and then he he starts putting stuff on his phone so the translator would translate, right? Oh god, then and then he says he's asking me, you know, what happened to you, and and I said, Oh, car accident, and um anyway, long story short, he gives me a little pamphlet for a church.

SPEAKER_02 1:01:16

Oh bless his heart.

SPEAKER_00 1:01:20

I know, and I and I say, Well, thank you, I gotta go. Um but even that shit, yeah. But I kind of, you know, like and and I because he said, Oh, what happened? Like, I why are you limping? And I was for some reason I felt like I had to say, you know, I'm not limping, I'm I limp. Um, but of course, you know, in translating that, like it was, I mean, he didn't speak English, I didn't speak Polish, like it was just a conversation that was never going to go anywhere, but the pamphlet for the church that could help me. But I think you know, people people feel sorry. And I and I know, look, I I when I walk, I I I walk, I I I feel like I'm uh one of those marionettes, you know, you know, a marionette like uh like a puppet with the strings, and sometimes like I don't know if you've ever seen that public show like this. Yes, and they kind of move really funny because uh one side kind of moves to the other. Like it's a yes, I I walk a little bit like that.

SPEAKER_02 1:02:27

Okay, so I really love this distinction between I limp, I'm not limping. Because it's a subtle because in English it's a it's a bit more subtle and it's a bit harder for our brain to get around, but I really like it. It's like well, I've I limp, but I'm not limping along. Yes, is that what you mean?

SPEAKER_00 1:02:51

Exactly. And and and I mean, this is how I walk. Like I I am Yeah, you don't actually limp, you walk. I I walk, I'm but I'm I am walking, it's just that I walk really funny. I walk like a marionette.

SPEAKER_02 1:03:06

I mean, do you you don't you don't walk funny, you just walk, and some other people uh are uncomfortable with that, but that is about them and not about you.

SPEAKER_00 1:03:17

Correct, and I think that applies to a lot of things, you know. Like people like because you think, oh, you know, I I'm I'm fat. No, like I'm not fat. This is this is my body, this is my body shape, different from yours, and different from you know, I I I couldn't.

SPEAKER_02 1:03:37

Yeah, I've embraced the word fat. I don't I don't I call I'm very happy to call myself fat. I don't see it as a negative, but I know that 99.99% of people do. And but yeah, no, exactly. Like, but so for me it's a little bit, and I don't I really don't want to be that person who tries to one up their guest. But I suppose I really have not only come to terms with my body, but I really enjoy her, you know? And yes, that's been a real transformation of not hating myself anymore. Um it's just I didn't ever think I could get to the point of loving my body, but I do because she gets me around every day, you know? Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:04:30

Actually, one of these doctors that I saw, I I call them doctors, but you know, I I can't even remember which one of all the ones that I have seen. Maybe it was one of those magical ones that um, but but it it um he said, um, just show your knees some love, like because you're still like you are still able to walk around. Yes, you have you need the walking stick and all of that, and it's painful, but you're still able to walk on it. So, you know, instead of instead of because I always refer to it as my bad one, you know, like people would go like, oh, so you know, what happened to you? Oh, you know, my bad one. I've had 12 surgeries, whatever. And my bad one, and he said, No, no, don't don't talk, don't talk about your knee like that. It's not it's not the bad one, it's the one that's been helping you move around.

SPEAKER_02 1:05:26

The injured one, yeah, and the one that's doing its best for you.

SPEAKER_00 1:05:30

That's right. It's like, you know, and and and we have gone through a lot, and I and I think it's I think it's part of that, you know, it's like you were saying, you are loving this body that you have and that allows you to, you know, you you can still walk for your 10 minute, go for your 10 minute walk. Or if you wanted to ride a bike this afternoon, you could. Yes. Right. And and and and that is the same body that sometimes I would look like, you know, I I I I envy those those bendy knees, you know, and I think so. For you, the knee is the goal.

SPEAKER_02 1:06:08

Do you look at other people's knees and think, I wish my knee could bend like that?

SPEAKER_00 1:06:13

I do. You know, like I see people kneeling down. And I I lived in Hong Kong um before, and they have this um this kneeling position that they do where their bottom is kind of touching the ground, and they and they can rest in that position for a really long time. And I think a lot of a lot of Chinese people do it. And oh my gosh, for me, it was like where they squat on their haunches. Yes, yes. And and to me, that's just amazing. And I I would watch people doing it like in the park, you know, and and I and I would think, oh gosh, to have those knees. You know, I wasn't looking at the perfect body like you know, like perfect boobs or anything. It was like, no, no, I I want the knees. Just give me the give me those bendy knees. And but anyway, look, it it it just I think you just need to change a little bit on how you look at things and your perspective, and then pivot so that you can enjoy whatever it is that you have.

SPEAKER_02 1:07:36

Adriana, we've talked about so much, and the time's gone really, really quickly today. Um, we haven't talked about um something really important that I think I'm gonna make into a part two. So, listeners, subscribe in the feed and come back in about a month, and you'll hear Adriana and I talk about living in three or four countries, it sounds like, and talk about immigration, identity, disability, and belonging and where they all intersect. But I think we're gonna wrap this conversation up now, and I like to finish off by saying to my guests, what's bringing you joy right now? Right now, um I mean not right this second. Okay, okay, right.

SPEAKER_00 1:08:25

Just just look, right now the weather is great, and my son who is living in Australia is coming in um in a next week. And so Adriana, that's wonderful. Yes, so I am I am enjoying the waiting, the preparing, the researching of where we're gonna go and all of those things, and so um, yeah, but this weather is just glorious, and I'm I'm really enjoying it.

SPEAKER_02 1:08:55

So you said it was 24 and sunny.

SPEAKER_00 1:08:59

Yes, heaven. So um, yeah, beautiful.

SPEAKER_02 1:09:03

And actually, something else listeners Adriana said before we started recording was that she gets alerts on her phone in Warsaw, Poland if it's going to be 30, saying that it's extreme heat. And I thought that might give our listeners in Australia a little bit of a giggle. Yes. So I think I normally sign off, but Adriana, maybe because you're multilingual, maybe you could say goodbye to us in Polish and Spanish.

SPEAKER_00 1:09:32

Bueno. Muchas gracias por escuchar. Adiós, do vicenia.