Episode 5. The Indie Trailblazer Rewriting Vertical Drama's Rules

Carin Smolinski didn't wait for permission.

She self-funded, wrote, directed, and produced Tides of Desire, a 50-episode vertical series shot on location in Costa Rica — making her one of the few women in the world independently bringing vertical microdrama from concept to distribution.

In this episode, the WEC Films founder and ThirdWave Entertainment co-founder talks about rewriting the rules of vertical drama from the inside — reinvention at 53, the ethics gap she's pushing back against, and what she calls "the third wave" of independent, cinematic, story-first verticals.
A conversation about building something different in a space still being written.

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Let's tell stories that connect.

Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:00

Hello everyone, welcome to the Vertical Reach Podcast. This is where storytelling meets strategy. I'm Pauline Gray, and each week I sit down with the creators, innovators, and voices shaping the world of vertical storytelling. Let's go stories that connect. Welcome again, the Vertical Reach Podcast. This show is about that moment when you extend upward, physically or professionally, to meet what exists above and beyond you achieved when you stay at the same level. When being at the same level is no longer enough. Vertical reach itself, conceptually, as you athlete, athletic types know, is the act of reaching your highest peak. It's about rising to meet what's higher, whether in your body, your work, or your imagination, or your ambition. On this podcast, The Vertical Reach is about people who didn't just pick with careers, they changed altitude. This season focuses on filmmakers and creators entering this new, amazing, unpredictable, vertical micro drama space. And most have entered as part of a greater integration or invention. As we all know, the industry is changing from all sectors, technologically, budgetarily, content-wise, creator-wise. Nothing is the same, even from day to day. So the goal here is not to document the end result or some sort of hindsight, but to document a real-time transition as we in the trenches change our lives in the film industry. In the guest journey, we have the amazing Trailblazer in verticals and microdramas, Miss Karen Spolinsky. Karen is a Vancouver-based producer, director, and actress, at least a triple threat, I would say, or Kung Fu, Jiu Jitsu, and MMA in the film industry. And she's literally at the forefront of the micro drama revolution. Karen has 29 on-screen credits and is recognized for her portrayal of complex matriarch characters. She was nominated for Best Matriarch. And we know that's a tough category. There's a lot of tight category at the Vertical Drama Love Awards. And as a filmmaker, behind the lens, Karen is one of the few independent creators bringing a vertical series from concept to completion and distribution. Under her company, WEC Films, and I'll let you do the acronym right there. Jump in, Karen.

SPEAKER_00 2:24

Yes, it's spelt WEC, but we pronounce it WEC Films.

SPEAKER_01 2:29

We C Films. Love it. She self-funded, wrote, directed, and produced Tides of Desire, a 50-episode romantic series shot on location in Costa Rica. She also independently created and produced the pre-paywall episodes of Second Chance with My First Love, and now continue on toward full production under Threadwave Entertainment. Karen is the co-founder of Threadwave Entertainment, a Vancouver-based female-led studio. They focus on scalable vertical microdrama, stairs production, and branded content. Her work is rooted in an ethics-driven approach with a focus on elevating the vertical space through high-quality storytelling, strong roles for women, and respectful actor-first production practices. So, Karen, with that broad stroke, I'm gonna let you jump in a bit and kind of flesh out your bio for us. Now I'll jump into my questions.

SPEAKER_00 3:23

Okay, amazing. Well, you encapsulated it so well, probably better than I can say it myself, but I think maybe I'll go to the why of where all that came from. I was, as you said, I started out as an actress in the space. And anyone who's watched a lot of microdramas knows that sometimes the female characters, sometimes meaning mostly, the female characters are less than desirable in terms of, you know, portraying us as strong, independent, intelligent women. So, and you know, I love playing a baddie. That, you know, it's fun to put your inner evil on. But there's certain things you like consent and violence against children and things like that that, you know, I just it's very hard to be a part of. So I'm such a doer. And so instead of just complaining, I decided, well, I'm gonna do something about it. And my son, Indiana Wilson, is a cinematographer. And yeah, so he he's the director of photography on all my projects. And that's, you know, my why. We wanted to create something together, we wanted to work together. And what started out as a very little idea became a very big production with 32 people on location in Costa Rica. Yeah, so, and then from that it's evolved, and then I met two other Powerhouse matriarch actresses, Susan Novozinski and Sarah Skinner, and they felt the same way as I did. And you know, three is better than one. So we came together as third-wave entertainment.

SPEAKER_01 5:07

That's amazing. So you guys, I'm imagining, really bring the sensitivity of gender evolution. You guys have seen through your own eyes, both in front and behind the camera, and in just through living on the planet, how we as filmmakers can really shift the needle in how women are portrayed.

SPEAKER_00 5:30

Absolutely.

SPEAKER_01 5:31

And then it sounds like with tides of desire, you brought in the capital part of it. Because ultimately, once you have the capital, you own the history, you own the imagery. And what I find amazing with micro drama space is that the budgets are so manageable. We can touch that a little bit more, but um, in some ways, there's like this inherent liberation in the space. There's experimentation you can pivot in a way that I'm sure I can imagine that if you were in a situation where Costa Rica became unmanageable or problematic, you'd have gone to Dominican Republic.

SPEAKER_00 6:11

Well, actually, our first plan was to film in Nicaragua because I had a house there. So it started as, you know, we've got the location. So we'll start with that. But getting camera gear in the country and getting permits was proving really difficult. And we wanted to do everything above the board. And Costa Rica is very film friendly. They have a film commission, and there was production houses. We worked with a great one, Citric Fox, with local rental, all our gear rental, best boy, trucks, you know, all of that. And so it was just we had to pivot once to go from Nicaragua to Costa Rica. But everything with the micro drama space, it's the Wild West. It is inception. Of course, it originated in China, and you know, we're we're behind there, but it's a different evolution here. So, first everything was getting recreated, just localized. The hits that were hits in China were being remade here. But now we're part of this, this little I mean, it's the start of everything. It's so cool. So people like myself and Julie Bruns, who produced uh Beneath Crimson Sales, and I'm also the co-executive producer on that. We're both women, we're both from Vancouver. I love that. And uh, you know, we're we're one of two of few in the world who have independently made vertical micro drama. But it's a tricky space because we're not recreating the same formula. You know, it's still a vertical, it's got 916, it's still fast-paced, there's a lot of drama, very telenovella, but you know, we have more complex characters. You know, it's cinematic. There's no slapping. Well, there is one in the pirates, but it's a cheeky slap. But you know, in tides, it there's no slapping. All of my care my female characters are educated and smart and self-employed, and they know how to swim. Go crazy. They don't need to get rescued from a swimming pool. Go crazy. Yeah, yeah. But we have this ability right now to re to write the the North American history of independent vertical filmmaking. So it's an exciting p time. I mean, it's fascinating. Amazing, amazing.

SPEAKER_01 8:40

So I'm gonna ask you a couple questions that um that always have really interesting responses. Especially I can imagine from you having been an actress for quite some time. What was the moment that you realized that your horizontal growth had capped out and they need to reach higher?

SPEAKER_00 9:00

Great question. I don't even know that it capped out, but I'd been shooting short films with my son, Indiana, and going in the festival circuit, and you know, one best director, best female director, best actress, you know, best cinematographer. So we were getting these amazing accolades, but there's nowhere to go from there. You know, it's so saturated, right? So the idea that you can stand out, you know, I wouldn't be on a podcast right now for making a short film, right? You know, it's like the short read. Yeah. So, so, you know, that so it was the opportunity, as you stated, smaller budgets, smaller timelines. Even, you know, if you were to shoot an indie feature for a month and a half at the tightest, tightest end to make a vertical, we've got eight days of shooting. Right? So it's just the opportunity to create something with less and for it to have further reach. So it was, you know, I think we were at a film festival and we're like, this is really great and everything, but like, if we're ever gonna, you know, be able to grow, we need to do something different. Oh, and it took a while to get my son to come over to the to the vertical side. But, you know, I just said to him, if you're taking a photograph and it's like this, is it any less of a photograph if you shoot it in portrait style? And he was like, Okay, you know, and so so he still shoots everything horizontal, but when he's when he's with me, we do vertical mostly.

SPEAKER_01 10:41

I love that because I was thinking about this now is as a short filmmaker, there really is not really a path like with verticals where you can blend your creativity and monetization. Yeah. In the short film space, I imagine more so that you may make your short, it has to be, if memory serves, I think 13 minutes exactly, with two minutes of credits, because most major festivals will only have that spec. And then you have to hope that because of that screening at that festival, then may peak interest to be turn into like the hit girls, yeah, the short, which is so rare. So rare, you know, and then you may have to work something out where you maybe bundle with other shorts, package it up, sell it somewhere. But these are processes that for about a year, at least.

SPEAKER_00 11:43

Well, yes, because you know, there's the pre-production, then there's the shooting, then there's the post-production, then there's submitting to festivals, and then the festivals, it's just very long, you know. Indy and I came up with this idea. I think I first dreamt it up in January, and we were in Costa Rica filming in May. Correct, exactly. Right? And and essentially it's filming a feature film because it's the same timeline, you know, it's the same amount of length. So it's just nice and snappy. You just get her done, and I'm a get her done kind of gal. So it works for me. I love it. But I do have to say that the monetization is not there yet. You know, if you're at the start of any industry and you're kind of trailblazing, you are setting the path for the people that come behind you, you know. If I had made a show that was following all the tropes and all of that, maybe uh, you know, it would have had an easier path, but we wanted to make something different. You know, we believe the audience is ready and you know, we might be a little ahead of our time, but it's going to come. But there always has to be the firsts, right? So we're definitely trying to set a path forward for future people for it to be fiscally viable.

SPEAKER_01 13:00

So now you're saying the tides of desire on location in Costa Rica, self-funded, really breaks away from the standard tropes in the micro drama space. Tell us a little bit about the story, if you don't mind.

SPEAKER_00 13:14

I would love to. So there's a lot of things that are a little different about it, but the leads are actually uh a mature couple. It's two widows with children, so single parents. I've never seen that before unless someone was desperate and needed saving from the billionaire CEO, you know. So no one needed saving here. But, you know, so it's uh a mom, a widow with her kind of older teen grown children. And she moves them to the surf town that her husband, who died in a surfing accident that he lived in, so that they could feel close to him. And so they've come to this beach town. Her son, Finn, played by Jordan Frank, is uh is a surfer. His daughter, her daughter, Sage, is a conservationist and she's obsessed with saving um ocean turtles. So we have a little conservation piece, which is also very unusual. But you know, we also tap on to the fact that uh that there's egg poachers that are stealing the eggs to sell on the black market. But really, it's about that it's the last beach that hasn't been developed. It's the last beach available to surf at. It's the turtles beach that's their habitat, and an evil developer, Victor Graves, comes over and he blackmails the city officials to sign the beach over to him. And so they show up at the beach, Eden's children, along with his daughter, Sierra, played by Data Stevens, and they show up at the beach and it's locked off. And so everyone's searching for this Machiavelli corporation, which is actually Victor. Meanwhile, Victor and Eden are falling in love, and she doesn't know, but slowly everyone's starting to figure it out. And then there is an evil pickleball biage, and she blackmails Victor because she figures out that he's Machiavelli, so she blackmails him that that he has to be her boyfriend, but then Eden figures it all out and she confronts him, then his daughter figures it out and confronts him, and then she runs to the beach to surf it off, and then she gets hit in the head by the board, and that's all I'm gonna say. Dun dun dun. You have to watch it? Yeah, you have to watch to see the end. Yeah, yeah.

unknown 15:41

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 15:42

So now let me ask you this. What elements really do you feel it's sort of transferred over from what you're doing before in terms of the scalability and in terms of execution of vision? I mean, I'm I imagine that for a phase you were meeting sort of the vision of another person of others, whether it was the director, the producer, uh, auteur person on the projects. Now doing tires of desire, now in the micro drama world, you're steering the ship, I imagine. So can you touch on that a little bit?

SPEAKER_00 16:12

Yes. Well, this was the other thing is that I I don't like to be told to what to do. So I like to be able to do what I want, which is why I chose the route of self-funded, self-produced, because I didn't have anyone telling us that to change the creative vision or pause filming because the color of the lipstick was wrong. All things that I have had happen on sets, you know, or you were right. Exactly. So, you know, I wanted to have complete freedom. So exactly so different to be able to do what we wanted and create the show that we wanted. Also, something different about tides of desire is that we have diversity. So this is not typical in the vertical space, and it needs to change, you know. So we had multiple people of color, we had people with accents, we had someone speaking Spanish in it. So it was just very important to us, and that's not typical. Actually, our lead actress was Latina and spoke with an accent, and you know, to me, that's just important. The world is a beautiful multicolored place, and it should be represented. So, you know, hopefully in the future I can have differing abilities as well. That would be wonderful, but I can only take on, you know, one thing at a time, right? So I had to balance still keeping everything vertical in terms of the script, the pacing, the episodes, the cliffhangers, the hooks, all of those things so that it would be distributable, but then also weave in my values at the same time.

SPEAKER_01 17:57

And verticals in general, what surprised you most about the medium? We started working in it. And secondly, what surprised you most about making your own vertical?

SPEAKER_00 18:06

What surprised me most is that we, in terms of feminism, we went back like 40 years. It's like in verticals, all the taboo things are somehow okay. And I don't know how that happened. And, you know, it's quite worrisome when some of these shows get 300 million views and they're supporting these very antiquated views on things, things, especially in regards to women. Sometimes my big mouth uh gets me in trouble uh because I'm pretty vocal about things. I think it affects getting cast in some things because I have my boundaries about roles that I'll play in everything. So that was what surprised me most, you know, because when I fell into verticals into acting them, I had no idea what they were. None of us did. We were just like, oh, it's an acting role, you know? And then we're like, what? The cameras like this, and what do you what is this script? And oh my gosh, this makes no sense. And you know, at the start, they were really bad. They've got a lot better. But, you know, the writing was shocking. And then what surprised me most about making my own? How liberating it would be, how incredible. It's it's I it's afforded me this magical experience, you know, speaking on panels at Verticon and LA Vertical Drama Market and on a panel in China. Like it's crazy to think that, you know, I started producing verticals a year ago, but there's just no one else who's doing these independents. You know, now there's a few more, but when I started, it was very, very unheard of. So so I'm very surprised at how it's changed my life. Verticals have changed my life, so it's amazing. I'm very grateful to them, despite my vocalness about the things I would like to see changed.

SPEAKER_01 20:05

Of course, bear in mind, for anyone who's not familiar with those things that need to be changed in the medium, these are not things that are extremely revolutionary in terms of gender relationships. There's nothing that is so far off in the film of radical feminism. We're talking about don't put the woman in a cage. Don't smack the pregnant woman. Oh, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 20:40

Don't sleep with your brother. Yeah. There's a crazy one. I don't know what's going on with all the step sibling stuff recently, but you know, I actually, true story, got a call sheet, and we all had auditioned under one name, and then we got our call sheet, and it turned into I lost my virginity to my stepbrother. And we were like, uh-uh, nope, nope, nope, there's a line. So luckily they changed it back. But, you know, things like that where you're like, what is happening here?

SPEAKER_01 21:14

Exactly. So, yeah, so of course, suffice to say that there's no sort of groundbreaking, paradigm shifting power play that we're seeking in terms of when we're trying to elevate the discourse on screen. You know, we're talking about like basic standards of human dignity, regardless of gender, that we're trying to elevate.

SPEAKER_00 21:36

Consent. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 21:39

Basic. Consent. Basic consent. Basic. Basically. Yeah. And so let me ask you this what felt risky to you and what felt just inevitable in this transition in your career?

SPEAKER_00 21:49

Well, definitely financially risky, uh, because it hadn't been done. But whenever I've been a serial entrepreneur my whole life, and when I go Into a new venture, a lot the money that I say goodbye to. Yeah. You know, because it can't be tied to a financial outcome, because that would have changed how I wrote the script. You know? So if I was gonna make a project that I wanted to do with, you know, my vision, then I had to know that this was at the forefront front of a change and that, you know, the success of it wouldn't be tied to numbers. It would be the fact that, hey, someone went out there and they made something different, you know, and this is how the space can evolve. Are the things I would have changed, obviously, you know, is my my first one. It, you know, the financial side, very risky, but I knew that. And what was the other question? What was risky and inevitable. Oh, inevitable? That we'd have a great time. I mean, we had 32 people in Costa Rica, and uh, we had four villas, four swimming pools, all these little casitas. We had 32 people from, you know, so many different countries: Nicaragua, Costa Rica, Ukraine, France, Mexico, like from, you know, all these amazing multicultural people. My son, his friends from film school. It was just, it was, it was hard as hell. I'm not gonna lie. Like, it came with its own challenges, filming away from your own country, in the tropics, with the heat, with the torrential downpour, with the scorpions and the tarantulas. Wow. So, but it was inevitable that we were gonna have an adventure.

SPEAKER_01 23:49

So let me ask you this. Just let me just recap a bit. So with horizontal growth, you're doing a lot more activity along the same ceiling. Ceiling ceiling never changes, right? And then when you have your vertical reach, you are actually making fewer moves with higher leverage. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 24:07

That's a perfect way to put it.

SPEAKER_01 24:08

So now having said that, has the vertical space shifted how you define success?

SPEAKER_00 24:14

Never defined success with finances for myself. So it hasn't changed that. I've always, always been that way with all of my businesses. I love money. I mean, who doesn't? You know, it it opens a lot of doors and it makes life easy, but it's not how I define success. No, I don't think it's changed because for me, it's all about the journey, it's all about the experience, it's not about the outcome, right? Because then you're always searching for this unattainable end mark, whereas it's not about that.

SPEAKER_01 24:51

So okay, okay. So then now I want to really pivot a bit to really locking in with our audience and sharing your wisdom, your advice, what what I would love for you to know as you go forward. So it struck me when you said you never define success with money. And in this industry, entertainment industry, I have very clear markers in my mind that are so locked into equating success with money. I remember very clearly when actors started making 20 million a movie. In fact, I remember I think it was Julia Roberts. I hope I'm not saying this wrong. Apologize if I'm talking out of turn. But when Julia Roberts, I believe it was her, broke the $20 million movie ceiling, it was global news. Not only the number, but as a gender breakthrough as well. And I myself as an artist, especially now in this vertical space, I think I speak for a lot of people who are in this financial limbo where a fair amount of my career, I always covered everything financially. That's impressive in this industry, right? I mean, don't get me wrong. There were definitely some months where I'd play the disconnection card game. You know, what really try to figure out what can't get disconnected. And I remember very clearly when internet became an issue and smartphones became an issue because those were two things that could not get disconnected all of a sudden.

SPEAKER_02 26:29

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 26:31

Southern California. Yeah. But all of a sudden, the internet I can I may have to go somewhere else to get that. Yeah, yeah, exactly. So yeah, so as I say this, so with the fortune of having been able to cover most things for most of the time, and if anything, right now in this past year, you know, maybe TMI, but this has been probably my biggest year of financial struggle of my entire career.

SPEAKER_00 27:00

Oh, sorry, I thought you were gonna say your biggest year financially. I was like, congratulations, but you know, it's a it's a hard time in the industry.

SPEAKER_01 27:09

Absolutely. It's a very hard time. And to tell you how I drove verticals, mind you. My profession is script supervising. I've always been screenwriting, I've also been an award-winning writer, always went written rom-coms, holiday rom-coms. I'm a finalist now in the roadmap rom-coms. Amazing. So I've always been a successful unproduced screenwriter. But I've always worked in continuity and scripture revising. Awesome. And literally, I was on a chat for uh WhatsApp or I forget what it was, and verticals came into the chat. Mm-hmm. And I was like, What's the vertical? What's that? Yep. You know, what's because I was thinking, because I'm looking for work now. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You know, and and that was probably last May, a little under a year. And I did a little explorator exploratory research, and I was like, I can write these. It started making so much sense to become a part of this world as community. And so I not to wax off track, just my own journey, but I do now for myself, I do have to ask for myself now, how do I define success differently?

SPEAKER_02 28:29

Mm-hmm. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 28:30

Because I always felt that I would be the writer who XYZ or the first writer who the first black female writer who's now in this past year, I've really had to think, okay, you know, what actually matters? You know, and what value system do I have to re-sort of like adjust and reconnect and re-evaluate? I'm just curious for you. Have you had that process of a shifting, or have you always been that person who just had different metrics? Or were those, what were those metrics actually?

SPEAKER_00 29:06

I've always been that person because I'm just extremely passionate about whatever I do and I'm all in. It's actually, you know, part of I have ADHD. And so I am all in when I'm all in. It's hyper focused and I can move mountains in a very short amount of time, but then then I shut down, you know, and and and that. So, but when I'm on a project or a new thing, I just see there's no barriers, no limits. I'm like, I'm gonna do it, I'm gonna learn how to do it, and off I go. Throughout my life, I've had times when I've had a lot of money and not had a lot of money. And at the end of the day, I'm the same person throughout that. And the things that I value are the same. And the people that I love and that love me is what matters. So that's how I'm able to disconnect the financials. Some of the happiest times I've had in my life, I lived in a little shock with no heat, you know, and pulled my groceries in on a sleigh, you know, and kept the fire going. Whereas, you know, I've lived in big, beautiful houses and felt very lonely. So I don't see, I don't connect the two uh in terms of that. Because for me, it's like, am I building something? Am I learning? Am I am I helping to touch other people along the way? Did I make other people's lives better through this experience? You know, so many people that were in Costa Rica have written to me or told me it was the best experience of their life. And it's like that success. You know, whether we whether we get any views or not, 32 people had this magical experience together. My son and I worked together and did this, so that's success. Do I worry no one will watch it? Totally, you know, because I'm human, but I have to remind myself going back, saying, but so many lives were touched, you know, through this experience. And that's the metrics for success, I think.

SPEAKER_01 31:17

I love it. It's the love, touch love. How do I say exactly? Who have I touched with my love metric?

SPEAKER_00 31:23

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 31:24

I love that.

SPEAKER_00 31:25

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 31:25

So let me ask you last couple questions. What is your next swipe up?

SPEAKER_00 31:29

I love it. Well, actually, with my two new partners, Susan and Sarah, so we've co-founded Third Wave Entertainment, and we are focusing on branded microdramas.

SPEAKER_02 31:42

Right. Okay.

SPEAKER_00 31:43

So we're looking to work with brands to integrate their products or their industries into microdramas as a form of marketing and advertising because we're all oversaturated. We gloss over when we see an ad, but when we get, you know, sucked into this telenovela, you know, this drama, we don't even know that that we're being sold to. So uh we're we're moving on to our third wave. We see it as the third wave in verticals. The first wave was um, you know, in the east, and the second wave was coming over uh to the west and internationally and not quite hitting the mark. And the third wave, we're hoping for this rise in independent productions, more storyline focused, cinematic, hopefully, union, you know, at some point, better conditions for everyone. So, so we're moving into the the third wave now. So that's my next adventure. So now I'm learning a whole new industry. I'm learning advertising, which, you know, was not part of the plan, but there you go. Amazing.

SPEAKER_01 32:52

So let me ask you this whether in the film industry in life, there are plenty of people who so want something else. They even they just want to think about it. Because I know for myself, I go through phases where I don't even have that thought. And I'll shut the thought down. And then I'll think, wait, okay, it's just a thought, Polly.

SPEAKER_00 33:23

We're not responsible for the first thought, only the second. Okay, I like that. Say that say that again. We're not responsible for the first thought that comes into our head, we're responsible for the second. I love that. Because it's how we respond to that thought. We all get negative thoughts and everything, but it's how we interact with it and what we think next that we are responsible for.

SPEAKER_01 33:45

I love that. I wanna integrate that to myself. So I'm thinking for those people who are at a juncture, whether it's creative, professional, personal, how would you encourage them to make a vertical reach? And and instead of coasting along horizontally, put the brakes on and take the leap upwards.

SPEAKER_00 34:05

Think turning 50. I'm 53 now. So am I! So am I, so wait. Aquarius. Well, Leo! Oh my gosh! Okay, done, you're 53. Look at us, babes. We got I'm just saying. Amazing. Okay, but I think hitting 50 for me really, I've always lived my life extremely present. That's also part of ADHD. So I'll forget that I'm cooking because I've just found a sparkly little thing to play with, you know, and or you know, that I'm very present in what I'm doing. But I think when I hit 50, it really came home even more that we only have one life. Yeah, it speeds up. Touch it. You know, and I'm not, you know, I'm not talking that other people might have beliefs about reincarnation and that. I mean, this life that we're in now, you know, it's your life, right? And so fill your soul with joy, do good in the world, touch people in beautiful ways, make yourself happy, dance around, be silly, help people, all those things. That's what makes me happy. For other people, what might make them happy is sitting very quietly and reading a book. If that fills your soul, then do that, you know, is because life is short. Moving upwards, you can clarify every decision, you know. Is this filling my soul? And yes, I understand we have to put food food on the table. And sometimes you're in committed things, but you can always add those passions, right? Like just make sure that you have the spice and the passion and all that that makes your soul sing in it. And if you're in that, then life is good, you know? We've been gifted life, you know. I have my health right now. What a miracle, what a blessing, what a gift. So, how am I gonna use my life to to touch people, right? And so for me, that's my that's my I love it.

SPEAKER_01 36:13

Yeah, I'm actually a Buddhist. Okay. And I believe, correct me if I'm wrong, universe, but the character, the kanji Japanese characters for mission literally means to use one's life. Just putting that in Japanese.

SPEAKER_00 36:27

I don't know the word for mission in Japanese, but I do speak Japanese. Yes, yeah. Okay, I didn't know that.

SPEAKER_01 36:34

That's very interesting. So so yeah, I definitely agree with you. I mean, I full disclosure, not full disclosure, once again, information. Both my parents have Alzheimer's and they're 83. And having this experience with them at this vulnerable period of their lives has been my biggest benefit and blessing of my 50s so far, a couple of years ago, because it's made me so clear on the brevity of life, and not just the brevity of life, mind you, but because many people can live to a hundred more and more. But I can honestly say for most people, from 73 onwards is a struggle, you know? So I thought, okay, so now, okay, now I know that I have actually 20 years left to live. Not 50, I may have 20 to have a quality of living. Yeah, you know, and and I love traveling. It's like, okay, so if I climb Machu Picchu, it's be with these knees. Yes, you know, every thing that I was like, this body is gonna carry that pack. Yes, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 37:58

It better happen really soon, but yes, yes. My father passed away last year in January, and you know, it just felt so young, you know, it just felt so young, but it's also putting, you know, that's perspective on on things, right? You know, I when when I say I'm 53, I'm like, how is that possible? Not because I care about age, but just like because in my mind, there's still so much to do, you know?

SPEAKER_01 38:26

I'm right there with you. So much to do. And and I I also think in terms of like whatever I thought 53 was, yeah, is so not. I mean, right now, I literally am younger. Yes, in my spirit.

SPEAKER_00 38:44

Yes, yeah, than I was in my 20s. 100%. 100% because it's zero fucks given. No, I'm serious.

SPEAKER_01 38:53

I mean, it's like, you know, I always tell young women, you know, I say, when you turn 30, that's the day magically when you realize that just cause someone asks you a question. You don't got to answer it.

SPEAKER_00 39:10

Ooh, good one. That's good.

SPEAKER_01 39:12

When you turn 40, someone asks you a question, you say, Why do you ask? When you turn 50, you don't say shit.

SPEAKER_02 39:22

You don't want to. You know, you don't say shit. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 39:29

Oh my god. Yeah. It's it's amazing, but it is, it is, it is liberating. But I feel better. I feel better, I look better, I'm in a better place in life, you know, now than I think at any point in my life, and I think it comes from that knowing of oneself. You know, less of the people pleasing, less of the shoulds, less of the this. It's like, what makes me happy? What does good in the world, right?

SPEAKER_01 40:02

Yeah, it's so curated. I'm very curating my life right now. Mm-hmm. It's not just happening to me. Yeah. Yes, yes, 100%. My life is what I'm making happen. Yes. It's actually we had another session with another with with another woman in the vertical space. And I said, I'd love to hear your thoughts on this. Individual people really don't have a comfort zone. Instead, the people around us have a zone in which they feel comfortable with us being in.

SPEAKER_00 40:40

Well, I'm gonna have to think about that one.

SPEAKER_01 40:42

You know, because from my own experience, especially for myself, you know, I've always had that second thought.

SPEAKER_00 40:48

Yes, yes, yes.

SPEAKER_01 40:50

The second thought has always been about others. I'm so happy. We connected, Karen.

SPEAKER_02 40:54

Me too.

SPEAKER_01 40:56

Can you please tell us where to find you, where to see your work, where you'll be in person, where you'll be accepting another award. Tell us.

SPEAKER_00 41:05

Amazing. Tides of Desire will be coming out on Movie Picks app as well as the inverted app and a few others I can't say yet. But but that's that's where you'll be able to see it first. And um, yeah, you can find me my adventures on Instagram, all the fun and magical things that we're doing. So yes, thank you for having me. It's been wonderful. It's been great. And what are your IG handles? Karen Smolinsky, at Karen Smolinsky, uh, then at UEC.films at tides underscore of underscore desire underscore vertical. Yes, and then oh, microdrama mama on on TikTok.

SPEAKER_01 41:47

So yeah, I love it. Okay, those all be in the show notes. Amazing. Thank you so much, Karen. It's been amazing.

SPEAKER_02 41:54

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 41:55

And um, and to the audience, thank you once again for being here with us and sharing our journey. And please respond and let us know more about your journeys. And I'll close with just saying whatever it is, whatever you desire, just keep swiping up.

SPEAKER_00 42:10

Yay! Thank you. So nice to thank you for having me.

SPEAKER_01 42:16

Thank you for listening to this episode of the Virtual Reach Podcast. If you enjoyed the conversation, make sure to subscribe so you never miss an episode. If it sparked something for you, please share it with 12 storyteller. Until next time, let's tell stories.com.